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I thought I would share some details on my one professional  experience with sexual harrassment, to explain some of my thinking and questions about the Foley massacre taking place in Congress.

More below...

Six years ago, I was working as a supervisor in a call center for the technical support department for a large ISP.

I had between 25 and 30 people reporting to me on any given day.

The work environment was casual and laid back. People were allowed to bring beer to work. People sometimes smoked pot in the parking deck outside. People definitely smoked pot at parties after work, etc.

After I'd been doing this gig for a while, an employee who worked in another department in another building gradually started coming over and talking to employees in my building. She would be huggy and whatever.

There were two times that she came into my cube and started rubbing my shoulders. I asked her to stop this both times.

Several weeks later, I was speaking with two employees in my cube (which was the size of a small football field), and she entered it and started rubbing my shoulders in front of them. I tensed up, let them know that I needed to finish up some business and they should go home, and asked her to leave.

A few minutes after she left, I called her supervisor in the other building. I stated that she was doing this, I'd asked her to stop twice before, and that I would like it if he asked her to stop this because I felt like it undermined my authority in front of my employees.

So I go home. Dinner and booze and parties, oh my! (Tammie was much more fun five years ago!)

I come back to work the next morning. My boss is sitting in my cube. She tells me not to talk to anyone, not to log into my workstation or anything else, just to come with her.

We walk a couple of blocks and cross the street to go to the coroporate headquarters. She takes me into a conference room.

In this room are sitting the suprevisor I called the day before. All three of the managers for his department. The evening shift manager for my department. Both HR ladies for the company. And someone from the legal department.

They spent the next hour or two grilling me about every contact I had ever had with this chick. They asked me about dates, what happened, when it happened, what I said, who was around, had I ever said anything to anyone about her, had anyone ever said anything to me about her, had I ever overheard anything being said, etc.

All of these people are taking notes and writing down everything I say the whole time, they're going back and forth through the timeline to make sure I'm keeping the same story, etc.

This crap went on for about two hours.

They told me to get out and go on about my business for the day, and they would be in touch if they needed me.

By this point, I'm about so scared I'm pissing my pants.

They were cold and extremely impersonal and professional as hell (keep in mind some of these people I've partied with).

About an hour later, I get the first phone call. Through the rest of the day, they call me and tell me to send in employees that I had mentioned as being around, etc.

I think I'm going to get fired, etc, I think I did something wrong, and I'm like WTF?

The next day, I get called into HR and I'm thinking "Oh fuck".

So I go to HR, they tell me that they decided to terminate this chick's employment and I'm never to discuss it with anyone but HR again on pain of having my balls cut off.

That is my experience with sexual harrassment.

And this is at a company where the carpet was duct taped to the floor, hadn't been cleaned in five years, and everyone partied together after work.

All of this colors my view of what's going on with Foley and the house leadership.

If this is the way they cracked down on that kind of crap at such a company, I'm thinking people in Congress would actually have their shit together at least as well.

I have some serious questions about this issue.

I'd love to know who knew what, and when, and what was said.

If Hastert "handled" the matter, then there's a paper trail proving exactly that.

You don't have these sorts of meetings, like the one reportedly occuring with someone from the Clerk's office and Foley, without some kind of paper trail.

Who was told?

When were they told?

What were they told?

Who saw the emails?

Who talked to Foley?

When did they talk to Foley?

Why was there no investigation when he showed up drunk at the Page dorm?

What documents exist corroborating any of this?

I'm extremly skeptical that anything was done.

Anyway, just wanted to share some info on why I think the way I do about all this.

Cross-posted on TrekBBS with some minor changes, mainly the questions

Originally posted to Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:39 PM PDT.

Poll

Is there any way Hastert, Alexander, Reynolds, Shimkus, and Boehner will be exonerated?

32%11 votes
67%23 votes

| 34 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  What do you guys think? (19+ / 0-)

    Is this the right angle to look at the issue?

    I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

    by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:37:20 PM PDT

    •  Definitely one aspect.. (6+ / 0-)

      ...especially if it's being discussed in front of a professional or work-place crowd...

      After all the talk in corporate circles about no-tolerance for harassment, people will be on the level about this...

      Relate it as though:

      Employee A, good at what he does and admired by the organization, engaged in sexually explicit harassment with minors working in the organization as interns DURING hours and OFF hours...

      Senior Employee B, in an indirect oversight capacity, but certainly considered a leader and mentor in the workplace, receives complaints from some of the interns about this behavior.  He further receives transcripts of the communications.  He hushes it up, advises Employee A to keep his nose clean, and goes on about his business.

      Other Senior Employees C, D, E, etc. hear about this and agree to keep it quiet, because the department has high-importance work to do and Employee A is, BY FAR, the best for getting it done the way they need it to be done...after all, their bonuses and performance ratings are hinging on it.

      Employee A is feeling the pressure and discusses resigning to save face.  Senior Employee C threatens to reveal the incidents publicly if Employee A doesn't stay at his desk and get the important work done...

      The scandalous behavior finally gets broken when the intern's parents inform an investigative reporter for a local news org.

      Employee A resigns immediately.

      Emails are produced indicating that Senior Employees B, C, D, and E tried to cover it up, including ones supporting the blackmail allegation.

      Now...you ask a group of professionals:

      What would happen in YOUR office place if this occured?  

      I'd guess that everyone in a position of command, oversight, management, etc., as well as any other employees who knew and kept it hushed, would be fired, immediately.  Anyone who was mentoring the interns and who should have had some clue, but didn't, would be given a written warning...

      The difference here is that WE are the management/employers of these congressmen...

      THROW THE BUMS OUT!

      It is amazing how much can be accomplished when you don't care who gets the credit - Harry Truman
      PoliticalCompass Scale: -2.13, -2.97

      by floundericiousMI on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:51:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I think this angle (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Sassy, AmericanRiverCanyon

        is how we break the back of GOP support for any of these five goons

        I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

        by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:52:53 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Again... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          lcrp, esquimaux, Nerdsie

          it's not a one-size-fits all deal...

          This riff will work with professionals...but there are plenty of people who just won't get the nuances.

          Linking this to your posted sexual harassment investigations does, however, provide one EXCELLENT contrast between a body that has a fear of the law and a body that feels it is above the law.

          It is amazing how much can be accomplished when you don't care who gets the credit - Harry Truman
          PoliticalCompass Scale: -2.13, -2.97

          by floundericiousMI on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:55:27 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Hmm (5+ / 0-)

    I have some serious questions about this issue.

    I'd love to know who knew what, and when, and what was said.

    If Hastert "handled" the matter, then there's a paper trail proving exactly that.

    You don't have these sorts of meetings, like the one reportedly occuring with someone from the Clerk's office and Foley, without some kind of paper trail.

    Who was told?

    When were they told?

    What were they told?

    Who saw the emails?

    Who talked to Foley?

    When did they talk to Foley?

    Why was there no investigation when he showed up drunk at the Page dorm?

    What documents exist corroborating any of this?

    I think the GOPs in Congress skipped all of that and went right to the bong rips in Jimmy Sensenbrenner's Hummer.

    The Chimp Stays in the Picture

    by als10 on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:44:08 PM PDT

  •  In the Real World (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamifah, esquimaux, irishwitch, profmom

    You're right, the corporate lawyers and all sorts of other people would be called in, Major CYA Mode.

    Instead, it's the Good Ol' Boy Network Mode. IF anything was said to Foley or anyone else, and I do mean IF, then it was along the lines of Ha ha ha, guess you like those cute young studs, huh? Well, be good! Or at least be discrete! Nyuk, nyuk.

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

    by WV Democrat on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:52:26 PM PDT

    •  So when we're talking to GOOpers (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      WV Democrat, irishwitch

      who are saying there was no coverup, we believe it was handled correctly, blah blah

      basically denying reality

      we explain them to it like how it would happen at their job

      what if your coworker was sending harrassing emails to an underage intern and you found out about it?

      How would you deal with it? What would happen?

      etc

      I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 03:54:09 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I have been subject to harrasment (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Caldonia, irishwitch

    as a minor and as an adult many many times.  My refusal to flirt and utter refusal to laugh at dirty jokes or stories, I think mipped things in the bud pretty quickly.
    If you knew me you would know that I am NOT and never have been "girlish", I have a very germanic/scottish persona.  I am one of those people who look extremely serious when I am not smiling, serious and intimidating my ex told me the other day. So I can't believe anyone ever made an attempt in the first place.  But apparently some men in my youth found that attractive.
    So I never reported anyone for anything.  Perhaps I should have.  But I can BET that if these people were aware and worried about Foley's behavior, they KNEW and so did Hastert that there was more than some too friendly emails involved. Hastert is lying.

  •  Reminds me of my experience with race problems (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    liberal atheist, Tamifah

    In my first employment situation, I was teaching statistics (what I do). In a class, I was discussing binary-yes-no variables, and I used "being pregnant" as one, at which point some half-wit threw in something racial.

    So this black student reports me to the college race truth squad, and she comes to me in my office.  Here's where I made my mistake - I thought she was there to help me.  WHAT A LAUGH!  Nope, this bag of shit was out to get scalps, and mine was on the line.  

    I threw her out of my office after 15 minutes, but things were not good.

    I never did get tenure there, but I wasn't productive enough - but watch out for any of this shit.

    •  yeah (0+ / 0-)

      they're out to regulate not help anyone

      i think hastert and co were out to help, not regulate

      I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:12:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A simple question: (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lcrp, liberal atheist, Tamifah

    are there no written harassment policy regarding pages?  I would be shocked if there wasn't.  But I have not heard mention of one anywhere. Even the smallest employers now have written policies and handbooks that employees sign the first day.  This stuff is taken very seriously, as Tamifah shows.

  •  I worked for a D.C state office. (0+ / 0-)

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:23:21 PM PDT

    •  can you write some (0+ / 0-)

      about how this sort of issue would have been handled there?

      This was a govt office, yes?

      I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:25:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  SInce the harassment (0+ / 0-)

        wad mor einappropriate behavior form those on the Hill--staffers--rather than my boss, I have no clue.  My boss was perfectly professional.  I mostly endured staffers making inappropriate invitations to a member of a lobbyign office--invites for drinks and dinner.  Got propositioend over the phone--I have a bvreathy little voice a la Monroe--and found it amusing becasue for all they knew I looked like the warthog in The Lion King (actually the two stafffers who did the propositioning, looked like Rush;s clones).

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:35:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I worked with a man that was set up due to his (0+ / 0-)

    flirtatious ways. He was in ways a bit too friendly to women but never crossed the line and was not harrassing. But because he had an eye for the pretty girls he got into some trouble. A woman in the company set him up so that she could claim harrassment and get a settlement. He ended up retiring early so that they could sweep the whole thing under the rug. She got what she wanted and he got the shaft.

    I know some of you will say well where there is smoke there is fire. Normally, I would agree but I knew this man and he was always above board. So, the company that the diarist is speaking of probably wanted to avoid any legal problems and took a proactive approach. The harrasser probably had some other "things" in her file that forced their hand.

  •  I worked on the Hill at a (4+ / 0-)

    state office in D.C.  I was 24 and looked much younger.  Used to get stopped all the time by the Capitol Police when I'd go over for a meeting because they thought I was a high school student who got separated from her class tour (as a first year teacher at  JUNIOR HIGH, a safety tried to give me a demerit slip for being in the hall without a pass from my teacher--high age in the school ws 15--and i had to get the other librarian to vouch for me).  I used to get propositioned all the time--over the phone, in person, and always by guys who look like Rush and Denny, never by anyone resembling Rob Lowe or Brad Whitman. NOT fair.  It annoyed me, but I shrugged it off--no touching just inappropriate invitations.

    Because I'd already experienced REAL sexual harassment.  Spring og my last semester of college, I moved home because all I had left ws to finish my independent study paper on Jane Austen. I got a part time jobs at a dept store. I ended up working in  Budget Men's clothing where the manager was an African  American man in his late 30s.  EVERYONE Else was female ranign form 16 to 25.   He made me VERY uncomfortable--he'd come over when I was straightening a sale table and lean very close, pressing his dick against my ass as he showed me how to do it better. One time he trapped me in the back  where we kept the overflow stock, and copped a definite feel. I thought about reporting it but was afraid that because he was  marked bu magnet to move up fast, that no one would believe me.

    I went to lunch one Sat. with several other clerks.  R. had done his rubbing up against me trick twice that morning. Imentioned it.  And the other three women  told me he'd done the same to them. We decided to go to management, every last one of us, on your afternoon break. We figured if we ALL told them, one after the other, something would get done.

    It sure did. We all got moved ot other departments, and were warned not to make trouble. We were told that R. was on the fast track, an excellent employee, and HIS version was "never happened. He got sent to antoher store. We got shafted for tellign the truth.After R., the horny goats on the Hills ere nothing.

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:32:00 PM PDT

    •  you should sue (0+ / 0-)

      you're entitled to some dollas

      disclaimer: IANAL

      what you experienced was wrong and I am sorry that you experienced it.

      I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:35:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It likely wasn't illegal (0+ / 0-)

        back in 1971. I don't think the law was passed till much later. I also think that he was their Token Black, and that played a role. But most likley, it was that we were merely clerks and disposable, while he was on the fast track tobecome a buyer or a store manager.  

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:40:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Really (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TiaRachel

        I feel for you.

        Someone above was saying their friend was a "flirt" but always above board.

        Some people don't want to hear it AT ALL, and if they tell you not to say it TO them or IN FRONT OF them, you have to stop.

        Even if it's just "harmless flirting".  

        And in my case the harmless flirting and cute nicknames slowly devolved into "I want to mount you" and finally to drunken man-slut phone calls to my house.  I got to hear about how big his dick was (seriously, if you're packing, why discuss it?), who at work had given him head in the parking lot (there are cameras in there idiots), everything but out and out groping.

        It all started with flirting.  

        Peppered in there were comments like "I'm in good with the execs" and "I got so-and-so fired" and "People should know better than to fuck with me" and the like.

        Very pleasant.  With a smile, a gleam in his eye.

        Jerk.

        •  that is scary (nt) (0+ / 0-)

          I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

          by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:47:03 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  The worst part is (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            irishwitch

            that I found myself putting up with it and feeling helpless.  

            I'm a grown woman now, and frankly don't have time for pricks like this guy.  And yet, here I was, with someone only peripherally involved with my job, and feeling like I couldn't report him because he'd "fuck me up" like he did other people who he felt had betrayed him in some way.

            None of it a direct threat.  No touching.  Progressive language.

            So I can see how a business would want to curb even flirting.  Some people take advantage and push the envelope further and further.

            This guy was the worst.

        •  When my hsuband was in Saudo for Gulf Insnaity (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          plymouth

          Take One, I started getting obscne phone calls.  They guy was really BAD at it too--stammered, ahd trouyble getting out the  dirty words liek pussy and cock.  FIrst I warnedhim I was taking this  down and documentign it for the phoen compoany with an eye to gettign the polcie to tap my line--he kept calling. SO the next time, I simply critiqued hsi performance "If youre gonna say"fellato" learn to pronounce. ANd your deliveryu is lacking.  It's boring. SUrely you get mroe excited abotu what you wan tot do to me than say, the guy who reads the weather?  I suggest buying a recorder adn rehearsing till you cna say it with soem feleling."

          He never called again.

          The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

          by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 07:14:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  I work for a large local public (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tamifah

    entity.

    ANY complaints about ANY sort of harassment are taken very seriously.

    The company is liable if they don't do anything about it, and they can be sued for damages.  Any lawsuit for harassment goes to the deepest pockets as they become co-"perpetrators" if they don't do anything about it.

    The law is quite clear.  Except apparently if you are a GOP congressman.

    You have to show a paper trail of counseling, ad nauseum, to cover your company's ass.  It almost seems like your person did this to other people, because in my experience careful firms will counsel/document, counsel/document and then fire if it continues.

    MY experience, on the other hand, consists of

    *a supervisor putting his hands directly into my crotch from behind as I leaned over to pull paper from a drawer (architectural drawing paper).  I was 20.  I didn't say anything.  What an asshole he was.

    *a department director coming into my cubicle and saying "I want to mount you" - believe it or not.  The guy was fired for similar behavior (other reasons were given) so I didn't bother to report it, but then he bragged about maybe coming back so I made a formal report.

    Another jackass.

  •  By the way (0+ / 0-)

    there are federal guidelines that are available for companies to tutor personnel reps and supervisors.

    They make it pretty clear.

    If anyone "reasonable" thinks it's harassing, it's harassing.

    Therefore, if the person complaining isn't already known as a total wacko, they have to take the complaint seriously.

    And if the person complaining IS a total wacko, they will still cover their asses and take it seriously.

    They can be sued.  They won't mess around with it, if they're smart.

    Or as I said, unless they're Congress.

  •  It's also against the law (0+ / 0-)

    so there canbe criminal charges.  As CNN showed hte other night, most states ahve laws banning sending solacious emails to a minor--even if age of consent is 16, there seemed to be an excpetion for thsoe ina fiduciary relationship  with the vic, which damned well oughtta include congress men, if it includes coaches, teachers, cops...FL has such a low.

    They can put the SOB in jail, AND the kid can sue him. Man. I'd love to see a class action suit onthis--alll the pages he sent emails to suing the RNC for failure to protect them!  

    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

    by irishwitch on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 04:39:17 PM PDT

  •  Feh (0+ / 0-)

    There was a bigger stink at the junkyard I worked at (all guys, alllll the time) when I got "unwanted attention" than what these "elected representatives" did.

    They knew and they covered their asses for politicial gain.

  •  My experience with sexual molestation. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    delphine, plymouth, Tamifah

    I was 14, just started freshman year in high school. I used to model occasionally, nothing serious, just fashion shows for conventions and malls and stuff.  One of the hair dressers assaulted me backstage (it was very dark, no one could see). I didn't stop him. I don't know why, but I was very insecure at the time and I guess I was flattered. There's no WAY I would have told my parents. I knew I'd never see him again, and I felt responsible for not resisting.

    It never happened again, but I can still remember every detail. What a creep that guy was.

    I'm not looking for sympathy, I have a great life,  just trying to share the mindset of a young person confronted with a much older pedophile. I'm sure every other woman out there has a similar story.

    "She expresses a tremendous amount of pathos, sometimes too much" -- my piano teacher

    by Minor Key on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:09:19 PM PDT

  •  I worked in a Pharmacy when I was a teen... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    plymouth, Tamifah

    And the pharmacist, a married man made a pass.
    I told, I got fired. lol.
    Thats my experience.

    "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there."-Pierre Elliot Trudeau

    by pale cold on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:11:43 PM PDT

    •  you should sue (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      pale cold

      you deserve a lot of $$

      disclaimer: IANAL

      and it really sucks that that happened to you.

      I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

      by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:16:50 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  it was many years ago now... (0+ / 0-)

        Karma got him...He filled out an Rx with the wrong thing...no one died. HE got fired though.
        Later in life I was able to redirect that kind of attention in a straightforward way...Just tell em to back off.

        "It's not the end of the world, but you can see it from there."-Pierre Elliot Trudeau

        by pale cold on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:32:08 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  That describes precisely why I've never reported (0+ / 0-)

    on any inappropriate behavior by co-workers of mine. I'd be afraid it would be blown totally out of proportion and they would get fired, which I don't think they deserve. I am thinking of things like forwarding around emails with sexually explicit jokes in them. I know that technically violates our sexual harassment policy, but, geez, my skin is thicker than that. I trade far more explicit stuff with my friends! It really frosts me how fear of sexual harassment has made corporate culture so stiff. Nobody touches anyone anymore (other than the occasional handshake) for fear it might get taken the wrong way. The one exception I can think of is a guy I worked with from germany. He would occasionally pat my shoulder in a friendly way when he stopped by my cube. It was so refreshing and made me realize how touch-starved I was! Made me want to move to germany :) But of course I'd have to learn the language first.

    conscientious objector in the battle of the sexes.

    by plymouth on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:12:47 PM PDT

    •  I publicly called out a few co-workers. (0+ / 0-)

      One was clearly sexual (So, do you smoke after sex?) and I told him to shove it right in front of my boss. It never happened again.

      The other situation was not sexual, but it was sexist. Me and another woman were brought into an all-male department to re-architect their system. Needless to say, there was resentment, which is totally natural. In a big meeting, with bosses and bigwigs present, I started to speak and one guy said "watch out, here come the claws", and I turned to him and stared for about 10 seconds, then turned back to the conference table and proceeded to finish my point. His face turned red, it was awesome. My boss congratulated me after.

      "She expresses a tremendous amount of pathos, sometimes too much" -- my piano teacher

      by Minor Key on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:23:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The measure of what is harassment (0+ / 0-)

      is what a "reasonable" person finds harassing.

      You (and I) don't trip on explicit joke e-mails and the like.  I love them!  But a desk mate who does trip on it can report everyone.  We all walk the line.  Technically we're not supposed to e-mail anything that's not work related.  

      I've opened e-mails and had totally naked guys show up on my screen (from my lovely ribald friend Denise).

      So I pretty much limit my personal definition of sexual harassment with flagrant sexual language and comments, touching or threats of touching, etc.  

      It has to be pretty bad for me to give a crap, really.  

      And even the first time, I try a casual "stop" or "cut it out", shut it down.  If it continues, it's harassment.

      Still I've found myself not wanting to say anything.  And having a really difficult time trying to shut it down because women are "trained" not to be rude or hurt peoples' feelings.  And we tell ourselves he's only kidding, right?

      And then it goes over the line to creepy and we've put up with so much we don't want to seem whiny.

      Basically it's in the eye of the beholder.  One person's idea of a funny e-mail is another person's idea of harassment.

      •  Funny story (0+ / 0-)

        one of my employees sent a email just like this with a nekkid guy to a group of us at work

        and i reply to all saying we don't need to see things like this, guys

        well the fucker had put my department VP in the reply-to address so he was replied, i just didn't see it in the original message

        so my VP got it

        the next monday i come into work, my director calls me into his office

        and he says "do you understand that you should have checked who your reply was GOING to and what was wrong with that?"

        and I said "yeah"

        and he said "well good. we can just sit here in awkward silence for the next few minutes"

        so for the rest of the 5 minutes he had blocked off for that conversation, we sat there in awkward silence

        I'm kind of stalling for time here...They told me what to say. George W Bush, 03-21-2006 10:00 EST Press Conference

        by Tamifah on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:32:13 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I'll never be a "reasonable" person :) (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        delphine

        Still I've found myself not wanting to say anything.  And having a really difficult time trying to shut it down because women are "trained" not to be rude or hurt peoples' feelings.  And we tell ourselves he's only kidding, right?

        Nah, I'm good at hurting people's feelings. When I think they actually deserve it I find it fun (possibly too fun). I just don't want to end up in the situation of the top level poster - getting someone fired when I really only wanted to see the person reprimanded. And then there was the case a while back where I did tell a co-worker I didn't want him forwarding jokes to me any more not because there was a picture of a cartoon cock, but because the jokes WEREN'T FUNNY!

        I'm feeling cranky about our sexual harassment policy recently because I realized it means I can't bring in my awesome men-in-skirts calendar due to some of the men being topless.

        I must pimp this just a little though 'cause some friends of mine are in it:
        http://www.cafepress.com/...

        conscientious objector in the battle of the sexes.

        by plymouth on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 10:27:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  And then there are the office parties. (0+ / 0-)

    Drunken boss hits on staffer ... I suspect all of us have, at the least, seen this.

    What happens on DailyKos, stays on Google.

    by Jon Meltzer on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 05:34:55 PM PDT

  •  All we have to do is keep the story active. (0+ / 0-)

    We don't have to do anything about this issue, except to keep in on page 1 (no pun intended!)  For once, we have an issue that resonates MORE with average voters than with political junkies like us.  This issue will seperate all but the hard-core authoritarian zombies that John Dean has identified from the GOP come November.

    It's similar to the effect that Katrina had, but MUCH more personal. This is about our children.

    It's yet another entry into that classic table that compares the GOP to the Taliban - the GOP must be protected from their own impulses and desires by removing all those tempting pages.

    Most businesses have harrassment policies to protect themselves from lawsuits.  Good companies realize it also protects and helps their employees.  The GOP have become SO arrogant that they don't think the laws apply to them anymore.

    How often have we heard the mantra that the GOP is "the party of personal responsibility"?  When was the last time a Republican voluntarily took responsibility for his/her error?  Chirp, chirp...

  •  You know, I'd totally forgotten (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    plymouth

    that I reported someone once.  He was a new VP for the company.  He was still living in a hotel while they (his wife and family) moved their stuff and they bought a home.  One time, he came to my desk and gave me his phone number and the number of the room where he was staying.  Wanted me to come on over for a cocktail (wink, wink).  

    I went to another VP and ratted the guy out.  Later I was told it had been taken care of.

    End of part one, BUT - the truly creepy part happened after 8 years had intervened.  The guy left the company shortly after my dealings with him.  He apparently went on to continue this behaviour to the point that, rather than face an indictment that was to be brought against him somewhere in the east, he doused the family's cabin with gasoline and set it on fire.  With himself inside.  

    Yep, self-imolated.  I can't imagine the kind of guilt that would lead a person to do that.  Sad, sad, sad.

    Pray for the separation of church and state. (-6.75, -6.24)

    by CJB on Thu Oct 05, 2006 at 06:23:06 PM PDT

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