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On a widely read political website, Alex Zeese, son of third party U.S. Senate candidate Kevin Zeese, advocated a victory for Republican U.S. Senate candidate Michael Steele - citing the extreme right wing views of Steele as a Senator to culminating in a more liberal takeover by Democrats in 2012. This is quite revealing of Zeese's true intentions, and a puzzling look into his odd forecast for the future.

Alex is also a staff member of his father's campaign.

Here is a specific quote:

A great point someone else told me recently. Cardin does not deserve to be a senator, he has shown no leadership in 40 years. He will be a crappy Lieberman light type Democrat, and didn't you just knock that guy out. Why not let him lost this time have the Dem's run someone who does not suck (Mfume? VanHollen? Raskin?) in 6 years and kick Steele's ass out then, just don't run a pro-war, pro-patriot act, neo-con again and you wont have the Green menace to worry about from your "left" flank. If Steele win's he will be a one term senator because it shows the leadership that when a state is 30%+ Afro-American you need to show them some respect. If Cardin wins that ass will be in for 20 years. Thats all assuming the Democratic or Republican party does not collapse in 6 years. Then again there are like what 20 die hard Cardin supporters in the state.

This is particularly worrisome because of how close this Senate race truly is here in Maryland. We now have a bona fide example of how Zeese is in this race not to contribute anything but a win for Michael Steele.

I'm ashamed for the Greens that they would act in such a Carl Romanelli type fashion. Ben Cardin is a great progressive candidate, and it's bad enough that he's got to deal with the mega-funded Republican sleaze machine that is Michael Steele.

Current polling puts Zeese anywhere from 1%-4% of the vote... enough to hand the Maryland's Senate seat to far right Republican Michael Steele, just as Zeese and his son intend to do

I've met Alex before. He and his father were guests at a Cindy Sheehan event my organization (the University of Maryland College Democrats) sponsored. Alex was extremely rude to me and other College Democrats, with close-to-face finger waging and random challenges to impromptu debates. To his credit, he did do a very good job of explaining the voting machine debacle we have in Maryland to me at another unrelated event.

At the last debate in the Urban League I attended with Zeese, Cardin and Steele, I noticed Zeese took far more shots at Cardin than at Steele. Steele attacked Cardin with insinuations of racism, while Zeese took cracks at Cardin calling him a sell out and criticized Cardin for actually wanting to fully fund our troops while serving in Iraq (Cardin had the guts and good sense to vote against the authorization of the Iraq war however, a fact glossed over by Zeese)

If you look here Alex seems to have since deleted his little candid revelation of his father's true goal. Good thing I got a screen shot before he did!

-- Lee
President, Maryland Federation of College Democrats
collegedemsofmd.blogspot.com
Student- Univ of Maryland

Originally posted to leeroxxor on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:47 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  I'm starting to (10+ / 0-)
    so hate Greens.

    -8.38, -7.74 Schadenfreude is a dish best served piping hot.

    by condoleaser on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:48:16 PM PDT

    •  What. . . (9+ / 0-)

      . . . took you so long?

      Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

      by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:49:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The only surprise here (8+ / 0-)

        Is the honesty ... a lapse that they apparently tried to correct.

        If the Greens wanted to be anything but holier-than-thou spoilers they'd quit all this other nonsense and get heavily involved in primaries and in pushing for runoff voting systems.

        •  I would say (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          baltimoremom, condoleaser

          Few Greens I know would advocate such a thing.  Not everyone who says they are green is really green, because it is such a fringe party many hangers on come in and claim to be green.  Does lieberman speak for you?  Is that the view of all Dems.  As a green sympathizer I would never advocate such a position as this person has.

          God bless the USA

          by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:17:15 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Lieberman isn't a Dem (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            condoleaser

            So he sure doesn't speak for me, or the party.

            We will appoint as...officials, only men that know the law of the realm and are minded to keep it well. -- Magna Carta, #46 (-6.25, -7.18)

            by DH from MD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:18:18 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  exactly my point (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              baltimoremom, condoleaser

              God bless the USA

              by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:23:50 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I think you misunderstood (4+ / 0-)

                Lieberman isn't running as a Democrat.  He was rejected by his party, and so is not the Democratic candidate.  Zeese was endorsed by the Maryland Green Party, and a few other third parties.  He is the Green candidate, and thus de facto represents the party.

                We will appoint as...officials, only men that know the law of the realm and are minded to keep it well. -- Magna Carta, #46 (-6.25, -7.18)

                by DH from MD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:46:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  baltimoremom

                  but if lieberman wins, (which I hope he doesn't) wouldn't dems be pleased if he voted for harry reid as speaker and not whoever picks up frist's spot.  I honestly do not know anything about maryland or pennsylvnia where conflict has occurred. I am curious about the third parties, why do we need to suppress all discontent so much? just curious?

                  God bless the USA

                  by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:53:09 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  This is a Democratic website (0+ / 0-)

                    The Greens are another political party.  Just like the Republicans.  JUST like the Republicans.

                    Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                    by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:03:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  a party with different and expressed values (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      baltimoremom

                      The problem is that greens express their values and dems endorse hillary and lieberman.  I agree we have different values from some dems in the party, nelson in florida for example.  Go ahead kick me out. I agree most times with dems and send all my money to dems. What I want to say is why piss off a group that generally supports you so they stay home on election day. This is a critical election. reach out.

                      God bless the USA

                      by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:17:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Go look at the Green party website (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        dkamus

                        www.gp.org.  Their headline is that they got screwed in Pennsylvania where they got busted for being wholly-Republican funded.  The only values the Green party has is to support Bush and the Republicans.  

                        This group does not generally support us.  This group is a tool of the Republican party.

                        Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                        by Mia Dolan on Wed Oct 11, 2006 at 06:39:43 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                  •  here's the deal Jas.... (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    vickie feminist

                    with the winner take all system we have in the USA, any third party winds up being a spoiler or protest vote.  The stakes now are VERY VERY high, and I don't think the USA can afford the luxury of protest votes.  I'm sorry it has to be that way, but in my opinion that's exactly how it is.

                    I do not appreciate a Green party candidate taking votes away from a Dem when it's very possible that the result will be a conservative rubber stamp Republican in the Senate.  The Green party would be far better serving itself by working toward instant runoff voting or some other voting reform that gets us away from winner take all.

                    I wouldn't believe Bush if his tongue became notarized (h/t to shanti2)

                    by billlaurelMD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:23:21 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      baltimoremom

                      My experience is with European voting systems which encourage multple parties.  I also support in general a replacement of republican canidates.  I do not endorse allen over webb for example.  I also agree that greens should not run when a worse candidate will win in a close race.  I also like IRV but do not see either dems or reps supporting it.  My question is what about the libertarians?  They have been running for years, they even have a candidate for govenor of texas.  Should we exclude them as well?  What about kinky? I just want the field to be open.

                      God bless the USA

                      by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:31:13 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

          •  No Third Parties In Our Electoral System (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            billlaurelMD, Geekesque

            Unless you have run-off voting, a third party candidate in November will always wind up hurting the party with which they more often agree.  That isn't a good thing, in my opinion, but I believe it is true.  While I could excoriate the Dems at length, I have no respect for anyone who still sees no difference  between the Dems and the R's.

            True, not all Greens are honest enough to themselves (let alone to others) to say that their plan is to hurt the Dems until the Dems are transformed (and we all see how well that's worked).  Still, I've never heard a reasonable model for what other goals they might have.

            •  honest green (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              baltimoremom

              I don't think the greens I know really want to hurt dems or even change the party, I think they really want to see real changes in electoral politics (3rd way).  I think there is a real difference between d's and r's. but on some things I agree with core r principals more than d.  but in complicated discussions these things get washed out into talking points.  All I want to say is most greens support d's in the end, but if everyone attacks them then they are likely to stay home hurting the GOTV efforts.  Look at the big picture.

              God bless the USA

              by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:50:14 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You are so wrong (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                hhex65

                How many times do the Greens have to be exposed?  Time to wake up.  The Green agenda is to work hand in hand with Republicans to fuck over Democrats.  

                Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:58:43 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Greens are all over the country (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  baltimoremom

                  Greens are working locally all over the country, rarely do you hear about them entering into this type of discussion.  Barry Sanders does not consider himself a d and dems are backing him in vermont. Is he a hateful person?  Greens are working all over the country to advocate for a green agenda, usually with dems.  How many races can you point to where greens are trying to support r's?  I bet there are less then 5.  How many dems voted for gwbush I bet it was over 20%  look to your own house and get them to vote dem and then kick the greens in the teeth.

                  God bless the USA

                  by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:20:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Busted (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    billlaurelMD

                    Bernie Sanders has and will caucus with the Democrats.  But even though he is basically a socialist, those fucking Greens are still running against him.  Anything to help the Republican cause.

                    Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                    by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:06:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Hi Mia (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      baltimoremom

                      Look you and I seem to be the only two people who care about this.  I live in south texas where the only politics is party machine.  Go ahead be mad at greens, but I would suggest spending that energy on r's.  Greens mostly vote with d's but you know what if you keep attacking people they generally turn against you. Look at W foriegn policy.  Reach out and you will win lots of friends.  God loves all.

                      God bless the USA

                      by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:23:22 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  hi mia (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        baltimoremom

                        I am going to bed now.  I have two small children, a fear they will grow up in a global warming nuclear age. f#ck me, but I dont see any movement in any area right now. green dem or rep.  could you have any room in your heart for that? just checking.
                        jas

                        God bless the USA

                        by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:53:29 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

          •  Its funny (5+ / 0-)

            When Greens exhibit this kind of behavior over and over and over, people keep saying that saying most Greens don't act that way.  Well its not true.  They are all Republican shills.  Every fucking last one of them.  

            Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

            by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:37:41 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I disagree respectfully (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              baltimoremom

              When greens (or fake greens) act stupid they get amplified. The greens I know have been protesting at nuclear weapons facilities for years, screaming for solar and wind power and looking for real alternatives to local political issues.  They are as far from Republicans as anyone I know. Hillary Clinton still supports bush's way does she speak for you?

              God bless the USA

              by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:43:00 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  So Wrong (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                savvyspy, billlaurelMD, davybaby

                When they got busted in Pennsylvania, the national Green party rushed to their defense.  It happens over and over and over again.  The Green party and every single one of its members are wholly-owned subsidiaries of the Republican party.  Your friends are tools of Karl Rove.  

                Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:46:52 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  The tools of Rove (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  baltimoremom

                  The tools of rove and company are the 50% of americans turned off by american politics without choices.  The discouraging dialogue only continues to turn people off. Reach out.  Say something nice, look for common ground. I even saw nice words about scarborough today on this site. Greens reached out in 04 and nobody noticed. They rejected Nader, they stood up during the recount in Ohio when Kerry said NOTHING.  Despise all you want but you win few friends that way.

                  God bless the USA

                  by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:03:45 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Liar (0+ / 0-)

                    The Greens didn't reach out in 2004 - they just continued with their Republican-loving ways.  We have just been stabbed in the back when we reached out.  Time to tell the Greens to go fuck off.  

                    Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                    by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:33:36 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

    •  starting? (8+ / 0-)

      I have hated them always, since their self righteous inception.  Even before Ralph Nader.

      With each passing day and betrayal, I view them with even more contempt than Republicans.  

      •  Agreed (5+ / 0-)

        The blogs have done more in two years to move the Democrats to the left than the Greens have done in more than 10 years.

        And these self-righteous scumbags are still out there, deluding potential Democratic voters and conscioulsy working to elect Bushite Republicans.

        They are the lowest of the low.

        The Republicans want to cut YOUR Social Security benefits.

        by devtob on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:34:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I could not have (0+ / 0-)

      said it better myself.

      If Liberals hated America, we'd vote Republican.

      by ord avg guy on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:55:13 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Well, but here (0+ / 0-)

      You can hate the Democrats on equal footing, since Kweisi Mfume's son Michael has also endorsed Steele, IIRC.

    •  I was registered Green (0+ / 0-)

      but after the PA fiasco and now this, it'll be a long time before I consider supporting them. I'm just so disgusted. I'll re-register Dem, though I have to hold my nose when it comes to the non progressives in the party (Wynn etc).

  •  End of Days. (5+ / 0-)

    citing the extreme right wing views of Steele as a Senator to culminating in a more liberal takeover by Democrats in 2012.

    Ever notice the similarity between this particular strand of Greepublican thought and the end-times prophecies of the evangelical far right?  Work hard now to bring destruction onto the nation and the world and there will come a time when they (the evangelicals in one telling, the Greepublicans in the other) will be elevated above the non-believers and made to rule.

    Is America finally suffering from Idiot Fatigue?

    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:49:09 PM PDT

  •  G.R.E.E.N. (10+ / 0-)

    Getting
    Republicans
    Elected
    Every
    November

    No time to complain, we've got a democracy to bring back to life!

    by bosdcla14 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 06:59:51 PM PDT

  •  The DU mods were the ones who deleted that (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Beet

    I'm surprised that he hasn't been banned from DU yet. DU has a policy of not promoting third party candidates during election season (which can range from Republicans, to Greens, to Connecticut for Liebermans.)

    Take the NY-25: Dan Maffei for Congress

    by Progressive Moderate on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:00:26 PM PDT

  •  Green Party Delusions (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davybaby, Ckntfld

    The sad thing is...not only is a vote for green a vote for a republican...but the greens convince many that it's not worth voting because they convince people that the two parties are the same.

  •  Well (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Naturegal, michael1104, davybaby

    This is ridiculous. First of all, to my knowledge, Cardin is not part of the much-malgined DLC. Furthermore, although Zeese wouldn't believe it, Cardin is hardly the "Republican-lite" candidate that he is claiming.

    But honestly this is why I don't like the Green Party. They are intentionally and inherently dishonest. Most of them are either wanna-be 1960s radicals or 1960s radicals who never grew up. They live some fantasy world, where they think that they are part of some "revolution". They are out there, living in far-left lalala land, thinking that they repersent some of sort of "revolution". They have romantic views of the late 1960s.

    Frankly they are no friends of the Democratic Party. The Greens are just a bunch of self-righteous ring wing enablers. The Demorats need to treat them like the Republicans--as the opposition.

    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

    by jiacinto on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:09:22 PM PDT

    •  yea (0+ / 0-)

      id like to branch out to them sometimes...but its really impossible.

      Lee F Maryland Federation of College Democrats www.terpdems.com http://collegedemsofmd.blogspot.com/

      by leeroxxor on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:12:23 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You can't branch out to a party (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        devtob, michael1104

        whose leader has stated on record that he wants to "destroy the Democratic Party".

        http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

        by jiacinto on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:27:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  which leader are you referring to? (0+ / 0-)

          Nader? Cobb? As far as I know the green party currently does not have a leader.

          God bless the USA

          by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:30:16 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Nader (0+ / 0-)

            That is who I am referring to.

            http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

            by jiacinto on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:33:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Nader was an independent in 2004 (0+ / 0-)

              Cobb was the green candidate in 2004 and he was one of the few including kerry to challenge the results in ohio.  

              God bless the USA

              by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:38:12 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I am sorry (4+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                savvyspy, michael1104, davybaby, Mia Dolan

                I have nothing but contempt for the Green Party.

                http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

                by jiacinto on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:41:46 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Which green values do you have contempt for? (0+ / 0-)
                  just curious

                  Ecological Wisdom
                  We recognize that the Earth sustains all life processes. Green ecology understands the common roots of the abuse of nature, the abuse of animals, and the abuse of people. Whatever we do to the web of life, we do to ourselves.

                  Grassroots Democracy
                  We believe in direct participation by all people in the environmental, political, and economic decisions that affect their lives.

                  Social Justice
                  We want to replace the worldwide system of poverty and injustice with a world free of all oppression based on class, sex, race, citizenship, age, or sexual orientation.

                  Nonviolence
                  We reject violence as a way of settling disputes -- it is shortsighted, morally wrong, and ultimately self-defeating. We work to create a world in which war is obsolete.

                  Decentralization
                  Power and responsibility must be restored to local communities within an overall framework of ecologically sound and socially just lifestyles.

                  Community Based Economics
                  We seek a new economics based on the natural limits of the Earth that will meet the basic needs of everyone on the planet under democratic, localized community control.

                  Feminism
                  The Green movement is profoundly inspired by feminist values. The ethics of cooperation and understanding must replace the values of domination and control over others.

                  Respect For Diversity
                  We honor the biological diversity of the Earth and the cultural, racial, sexual, and spiritual diversity of the Earth's people. We aim to reclaim this country's finest ideals: popular democracy, the dignity of the individual, and liberty and justice for all.

                  Global Responsibility
                  We are committed to global sustainability and international justice through political solidarity. We strive to create personal lifestyles based on sufficiency and living lightly.

                  Future Focus/Sustainability
                  Like the Iroquois, we seek a society in which the interests of the seventh generation yet to come are considered equal to the interests of the present generation. We must reclaim the future for ourselves and our children.

                  God bless the USA

                  by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:54:41 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Sorry (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    michael1104, davybaby

                    They are just dishonest frauds funded by Republicans.

                    http://www.keen.com/jiacinto For DC related travel advice, please visit that link.

                    by jiacinto on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:56:50 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  looks good on paper (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    davybaby

                    but the reality-based community would disagree that any of these values are being promoted by the tactics Greens employ to get Republicans elected.

                    read this diary again and match these values with what is happening in Maryland.

                    Lee F Maryland Federation of College Democrats www.terpdems.com http://collegedemsofmd.blogspot.com/

                    by leeroxxor on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:58:28 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  As I said before (0+ / 0-)

                      I disagree with the tactics promoted by this person, like any political party people claim many things but do not speak for the party.  I don't agree with any green advocating for r's unless those r's agree with green values.  So far I have found none.  I also believe in reality politics.  Keep pissing off the greens and they stay home not me but many others.  I don't think they should but they do.  People stay home and don't vote all the time (look at 50% of voters).  Open your heart and see people as common travelers on a different path with a common goal.  I suggest encouraging all groups to encourage as many people as they can to get out to the polls rather than turning people off.  I have no doubt r's have messed with local green parties, it happened to my own.  but it wasn't because we wanted it to.  remember rove also likes to spread disagreement when there really is not any to keep people from getting together on common issues.

                      God bless the USA

                      by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:13:43 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  No (0+ / 0-)

                        We've tried that. It doesn't work.  Time to tell the Greens to fuck off.

                        Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                        by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:35:54 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  God loves you anyway (0+ / 0-)

                          God bless the USA

                          by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:36:45 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  God (0+ / 0-)

                            doesn't love the Greens, though.  

                            Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                            by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:40:15 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  that is very harsh, I love you anyway (0+ / 0-)

                            God loves all sinners.  

                            I wonder what Rove thinks of libertarians. Does he spend hours telling them to get away or does he encourage their participation? What do you think?  My best guess is that he tells them, we'll back you if you vote our way.  D response to greens seems to be f u and don't ever bother to vote cause we don't care.  Please remember 50% of people don't vote.  Don't complain about the people who vote.

                            God bless the USA

                            by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:45:36 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  he may tell them that (Rove)... (0+ / 0-)

                            but he'd be lying.  He's only interested in winning for the sake of winning, not doing anything for the good of the country.

                            I wouldn't believe Bush if his tongue became notarized (h/t to shanti2)

                            by billlaurelMD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:29:33 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                          •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

                            and I say the same thing, what rove does not want to tell you is that when dems endorse the left they win. If you attack the left you lose.  people stay home and do not vote!!!  Open your arms Please!!!

                            God bless the USA

                            by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:38:20 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                      •  "it wasn't because we wanted it to".... (0+ / 0-)

                        what the hell?  You mean that you LET it happen instead, when you know that most everything in that darned list you gave us is policy the republicans generally abhor?

                        I wouldn't believe Bush if his tongue became notarized (h/t to shanti2)

                        by billlaurelMD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:28:38 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  we did not let this occur (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          baltimoremom

                          Look at the polls vs. the turn outs. Greens expressed disaggreement but voted dem.  they do not agree with r policy.  stop thinking that way.  look at how rove looks at it.  I have a a captured voting block because dems hate them they will not vote. embrace that voting block they will vote with and HAVE for years.

                          God bless the USA

                          by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 09:44:39 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  LOL (2+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    michael1104, davybaby

                    The Greens in reality don't stand for any of that stuff.  The Greens are pro-war, anti environment, and above all else, pro-Republican.  

                    Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                    by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:59:57 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  Do you really know any greens? (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      baltimoremom

                      God bless the USA

                      by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:05:34 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  I did (0+ / 0-)

                        but I shun them now.  Except for the ones who have apologized and promised never to do it again.  

                        I don't think you know any Greens, though.  You claim to have friends who are Greens, but are pro-environment.  Either you don't know that your friends are really just loyal servants of Karl Rove, or they are imaginary friends you are making up.  

                        Chuck Norris and Mr. T walked into a bar. The bar was instantly destroyed, as that level of awesome cannot be contained in one building.

                        by Mia Dolan on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:30:30 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  I won't tell about them all (0+ / 0-)

                          Susan Solar spent her entire life fighting war, nuclear energy and nuclear weapons.  She died because she spent so long fighting for all of us that she did not have health insurance.  She never met rove. She was green, ran for govenor of texas.  I respect her more than any person I know.

                          God bless the USA

                          by jas1984 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:35:52 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                  •  how about their #1 value? (1+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    davybaby

                    Destroying the Democratic Party and doing everything they can to elect Republicans?

                    Everything else you just stated is total and complete bullshit.

                    "People place their hand on the Bible and swear to uphold the Constitution. They don't put their hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible." --J.R.

                    by michael1104 on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:06:01 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

      •  I don't want to "branch out to them" (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Mia Dolan
        I want to destroy them. The Greens are the enemy, just as much as the Rethugs.
  •  Well... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Naturegal

    ...at least a Green candidate is finally being honest about their true goals.

    We will appoint as...officials, only men that know the law of the realm and are minded to keep it well. -- Magna Carta, #46 (-6.25, -7.18)

    by DH from MD on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:12:56 PM PDT

  •  Well: (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Vico

    It's too bad Zeese didn't run in the primary election. I might have supported him, then.

    Another thing, it's important to note that it doesn't matter who runs for office -- the so-called "Greens" ran against Feingold and Wellstone as well. Nobody is perfect enough for them -- it doesn't matter how well we defend American values, the "Greens" always want more.

  •  Green Party = GOP Psyops (NT) (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    davybaby
  •  Pro War Neocon = Jew (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daveweigel, billlaurelMD, michael1104

    Cardin was one of a handful to vote against the show of force.
    On the Mark Steiner show today, his dumbfuck dad was on, and was constantly saying "Democrat" instead of "Democratic".
    He's a closet Republican.
    I remember being told what a German Green (a minor party official) said about the American Greens.
    Basically it was that they (the German Greens) weren't a political party until they got rid of the comfortable sanctimonious, self absorbed assholes that are the American Green Party.

    6/24/05: Charlie the Tuna Creator Dies En lieu of flowers, please bring mayonnaise, chopped celery and paprika.

    by LunkHead on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 07:39:12 PM PDT

  •  To be fair (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    baltimoremom

    Alex Zeese appears to be arguing that his father's candidacy is not handing the race to Steele, which is what the previous poster accuses him of.

    He cites that they draw evenly from both parties in polling.

    As far as item 2) is concerned -- yes, a bad idea, and promoting that particular scenario in a Democratic forum shows poor judgment. However, in the context of the post/discussion, it just sounds like he's throwing something out there and not claiming that the goal of the campaign is to help Steele win. He is actually defending against this specific accusation.

    •  that polling is suspect (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Mia Dolan

      I think it's fair to say most eligible Maryland voters considering the Green Party would definitely vote Democratic if given only two choices. With that being said, if you follow Zeese's rhetoric and his activities, he's attacking only Cardin's base and Democratic areas. Zeese is a constant source of disinformation about Cardin's character and his record.

      All this...and Zeese barely ever mentions Steele. When Zeese came to the Univ of Maryland over a year ago, he decried only Democrats and Ben Cardin by name. Not a mention of Steele...

      Lee F Maryland Federation of College Democrats www.terpdems.com http://collegedemsofmd.blogspot.com/

      by leeroxxor on Tue Oct 10, 2006 at 08:31:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I'll ask Alex and Kevin about this... (0+ / 0-)

        You raise an interesting point. Don't attack me for knowing them both. I knew them from TrueVoteMD, long before any Senate run. I've made some mistakes, struggled and now resolved to stay out of any debates in order to avoid losing friends. You might treat me like a troll for that, but you really have to understand the predicament I find myself in. I don't feel politically savvy and it's clear that even if I felt so utterly inclined that I wouldn't be able to persuade Kevin not to run anyway. So I ask questions and curiously observe. Kevin has been very supportive of me in hard times.

        I tried to get in touch with you Lee after that event with Cindy. I was genuinely concerned about your experience (as you had shared it at that time). But I didn't get a followup from you. I can locate video from the event if you can tell me how long after the discussion and where this altercation took place. I wish I had seen it myself, because I have never seen Alex behave that way. But I'm not doubting your account here. I just want to know who you spoke with (besides Alex). That's just wrong behavior.

        Kevin has made a strong effort to campaign in red counties in the state. I followed along on a trip to Hereford for what I recall now to be an Independence Day parade. It was excruciatingly hot that day. l walked around and spoke with a lot of folks. It was swarming with Republicans. And listening to the Steele supporters there speak with voters, it was evident that the voters there were genuinely influenced by Kevin's anti-war position. It was really quite remarkable.

        Other occasions have found him doing "worker hour" (like midnight) campaigns in Frederick. They don't call it Fredneck for nothing. And following along I saw the impact of his message on red voters. Because of my involvement with TrueVote, I also attend Republican Party meetings in another red part of MD I won't disclose. It's quite remarkable how much discontent there is regarding Steele's position on immigration among the party members.

        But your larger point is taken. I'll slip in a question regarding all of this. That's a very reasonable set of objections to pose. But I won't act as some arbiter or serve as a whipping post. Thanks for your thoughts. I would like to meet you some time.

        •  Correction... (0+ / 0-)

          I just re-read my post and realized that I did not attend the Frederick event in particular, but heard detailed accounts. I'm a perfectionist and must correct that mistaken synapse in my head. I did indeed attend the Hereford (and many other related events). I was also at the debate at the Baltimore Urban League.  

        •  The Greens Fucked Up True Vote Maryland Too (0+ / 0-)

          I think deliberately.
          They were constantly offending allys and issuing panic messages about non-existent deadlines, etc.
          My believf is that their goal was to fuck up paper ballots so they could blame the big bad two party system.
          Fuck them all with Karl Rove's dick.

          6/24/05: Charlie the Tuna Creator Dies En lieu of flowers, please bring mayonnaise, chopped celery and paprika.

          by LunkHead on Wed Oct 11, 2006 at 07:58:22 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Zeese is great on the issues! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dkamus

    He was on Steiner yesterday and he was fantastic.  Check out the podcast on WYPR.

    I wish that Cardin was saying what Zeese is.  

    Zeese should be a Dem but I am afraid that the Md Dem Party would shun him as that dreaded 'unelectable.'  I don't understand why our state party won't take risks when they have a 2:1 advantage of registered dems over rethugs.  It is mind blowing.

    Have you ever wondered why Maryland doesn't have any Feingolds or Wellstones, considering our 2:1 advantage????  Go ask Steny Hoyer and Mike Miller.

    We need people like Zeese, and Mfume for that matter, in the dem party.  Not excluded from it.

    •  No one excluded Zeese from the DP (0+ / 0-)

      Zeese bashes the DP and people who work with the DP. He does it constantly and I've seen his anger attacks. I've heard accounts of him yelling at people. He and his supporters invite themselves to speak at events and then make demands on organizers. If they don't get their way, they act aggressively and even abusively.

      They don't tend to come through in any helpful way much of the time. I've seen him speak and I'd say he's a talented communicator, but he pulls a pretty healthy paycheck and I don't see him actually delivering actual results. Not on voting, not in electoral politics. This is all from my personal experience.

      My view? He spends way too much time attacking people and organizations who agree or nearly agree with his views on the issues, rather than building coalitions. I heard from several people that he and his organization(s) offended actual and potential allies in Maryland and their influence actual undermined progress on issues. I've heard that from a lot of people.

      I've spoken with people who used to work with them in those organizations who split off from them because they tend to attack and alienate people instead of compromising or even trying to work building a winning coalition.

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