GOP outlaws the latest terrorism threat: Online Poker!

Today Bush signed into law the Port Security Bill, designed to protect the American people against terrorist threats.  It seems the main threat that this bill is focused on is Poker players, as the key act in the bill is the "Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act".  Basically, this act makes it illegal for credit card companies to process payments to online gambling sites.

http://biz.yahoo.com/...

The interest in online poker has been growing dramatically with the rise in popularity of the "World Series of Poker" on TV.  But of course, in the US, gaming is one of those "sins" that is restricted to certain states, and thus highly regulated by the government.  On the internet, offshore firms have set up sites frequented by Americans, who make up the majority of players.  The poker sites cleverly have two versions of their websites, a ".net" version which is entirely free, and a ".com" version that uses real money.  They legally advertise the ".net" version in the US, and hope that people figure out that there is an equivalent real money site.

This of course did not sit well with the conservative base.    By sneaking this legislation into the Port Security bill, Bush and the GOP is effectively shutting down any type of payments to online poker sites.  The result will be that many or all of these sites will fold.

Being a bit of an avid poker player myself, I find this quite frustrating.  Although I've never used real money (just used the free sites), this will probably cause most of the free sites to fold without the revenues to support them.

I find it amazing that in this supposedly free country, we are so not free.

•  How the fuck

  can people claim that this is a 'free' country, or that our soldiers are 'defending freedom', when we make it illegal for consenting adults to do something with their time and money that doesn't harm anyone else??

  Fuck Republicans.

  by fizziks on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:40:53 PM PDT

•  I think this was put in the bill

  to protect the credit card companies, certianly not to protect the public.

  by Vera Lofaro on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:41:30 PM PDT

  •  Not really

    The Feds have been twisting the arms of credit card companies for years, trying to get them to do more to prevent Internet gambling.  The credit card companies are not particularly enthusiastic about having an additional set of regulations to worry about.  

    by johnny rotten on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:27:55 PM PDT

•  my thoughts exactly

  this is one of those things that makes me so frustrated when I get into an argument with a stupid person who tells me how free we are.

  by concordepa on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:42:25 PM PDT

•  Uh-oh

  I imagine my brother-in-law is curled up in a ball right about now, crying for the death of Party Poker.

  Seriously, I think people should be able to gamble away if they like . . . although, tbh, gambling is one of those vices I really don't get.  

  by rcald on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:43:46 PM PDT

  •  Tell your brother I feel his pain.

    by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:56:32 PM PDT

•  i've never played poker in my life...

  ...and I don't even know how.

  But this libertarian D will certanily stand up & defend your right to play poker and bet real money on the games.  

  No one, government or corporate, has a right to regulate consenting-adult behavior, period.   And this particular Regime, the whole one-party GOP state, having preyed on teenagers and covered it up, has zero right to pontificate about morality.

  Yes, understood, some people have terrible problems with gambling.  Fine, some people have terrible problems with alcohol, shall we go back to prohibition?  Regulation by the lowerst common denominator breeds a society of imbeciles.  

  by G2geek on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:44:19 PM PDT

  •  Thank You!!! That's exactly what I've been saying

    to people! It's the principle of the thing! Even if you personally don't play poker, any true American should be outraged by this attack on freedom!!!

    I am a grown adult and I have the rigth to do whatever I want with my own fucking money!

    by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:58:50 PM PDT

•  I just found out about this 1 hour ago.....

  I tried logging on to play and got this message saying that Shrub had signed into law legislation making online poker play illegal.

  Needless to say, I'm a little pissed off.....

  by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:49:17 PM PDT

  •  Other sites

    Full Tilt Poker and Poker Stars are still accepting US players.  Just move your bankroll.

    Wick

    by Wick on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:59:03 PM PDT

    •  Thanks...

      I'm gonna miss Party Poker though....

      by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:04:50 PM PDT

      •  Me too.

        Hopefully, some of the fish will swim over to Full Tilt with me.

        by Wick on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:06:59 PM PDT

•  Timing of this bill - Distraction from Foley?

  Wasn't this inserted in that bill on Thurs before the Foley scandal broke?

  As it was, this bill wasn't expected to see passage during this session of Congress, maybe after the election. But the Senate rammed it into an unrelated bill at the last minute.

  Couldn't this have been a way to create something to give to their far-right base as a distraction of the scandal they knew was about to break?

  As an online poker player and also a progressive political activist, I just wanted to throw this out there.

  by ajsuited on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:49:46 PM PDT

  •  Nah

    Frist was just trying to ingratiate himself with the Christian right.

    by Wick on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:55:52 PM PDT

•  Frist is catching heat for this.

  Bill Frist is actually responsible for attaching this provision to the port security bill.  He is getting trashed on RGP.  This should help us with the libertarian crowd.

  Incidently, the bill does not make online poker illegal.  What it does do is attempt to make it difficult to get money in and out of online sites.

  Some poker sites (including party poker) are now no longer accepting US players, but many still are.

  It is also not absolutely clear whether poker is a game of skill or a game of chance, thus avoiding the gambling issue altogether.  You could make a decent argument either way.

  Wick

  by Wick on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:54:22 PM PDT

  •  It is a combination of skill and chance. Period.

    Anyone who tells you different does not play or is a retard.

    by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:01:19 PM PDT

    •  online gambling is the game of chumps

      What's the odds of drawing any card hand?  With a physical deck, I know exactly. Virtual deck?  Who knows?

      by centerdem on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:08:28 PM PDT

  •  The Supreme Court Says Poker is a Game of Skill

    Which is why card rooms operate all over California.

    It's also a golden opportunity for Democrats.

    by The Baculum King on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:09:27 PM PDT

    •  Thanks for the link, I had never seen that diary.

      This will definitely backfire on Frist.

      by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:34:36 PM PDT

    •  Online and live games are not the same

      Online games are run by computer.  How many cards are in a deck? how many 2 of clubs?  what's the odds of hitting that inside straight?  does it depend on your signin name?

      by centerdem on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:07:15 PM PDT

      •  You Don't Think Players Would Notice

        If more than 1 person had the deuce of clubs??

        Since players play against each other, not against the house (the house takes a per-hand rake), they have no incentive to cheat (and a HUGE disincentive, the loss of their business).

        If you can offer a better random number generator than what they currently use you can be rich by Monday; the remaining sites will generate a bidding war for it.

        Personally, I have experienced no more bad beats or suckouts per hand online than at a table, but it seems more frequent because hands go much quicker online.

        'Course, I don't play at any of the small sites, mostly AbsolutePoker and BoDog.

        by The Baculum King on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:24:17 PM PDT

•  this is not gonna sit well with

  many Repugnacans. There is a sizeable number of them who agree on the libertarian principle of less government interference. I predict a backlash against this.

  by Rxtr2 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 06:58:34 PM PDT

  •  I do too. Apparently, the membership of the

    Poker Players Alliance has doubled since this bill passed. There were 110,000 members as of Sept. 30.

    by Deano963 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:03:27 PM PDT

•  Sucks

  Poker is a skill game, but that aside, what do you expect when the party of big government and regulations is in power....

  Couple of my friends are pro players and quite avowed libertarians, needless to say they are pissed off.  I like to play some small money games in my free time as well.  Needless to say, I think Repubs just pissed off a whole slew of 20-40 something American people.

  by marcvstraianvs on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:12:23 PM PDT

•  Gosh, where's Ralph Reed in this picture?

  Sounds to me like the poor deluded Injuns are finally getting their money's worth from ol' Abramoff.  

  It's deja-vu all over again, folks.  This is a repeat of ol' Ralphie's Righteous Indiangnation.  The Lord giveth, the Lord taketh away, but when the chips are down, it's classic misdirection all the way to the cage.  Qui bono?  The brick-n-mortar gaming industry, who give lots o' money to Various Worthy Political Causes.

  by BlaiseP on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:23:36 PM PDT

•  I'd write more but

  gotta get to the store for a lotto ticket. Gambling is not wrong, you see, it's only wrong when the government doesn't get to make a profit off it. What we need here, I tell ya, is a War on Gambling! We could call it the Craps Crusade or something that would make it clear it's God v. Poker.

  by lil love on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:23:47 PM PDT

•  They lost

  my older brother because of this. He's seriously pizzed. He's another moderate who latched on to the notions of fiscal responsibility and nat'l security as rethug strengths. Like many others he's been turned off by how far gone they've become. This was just the breaking point for him (huge hold 'em player).

  by Prog227 on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:43:52 PM PDT

•  Balance of trade deficit is bad enough

  either that or

  Repubs got lost of $$$$$ from casino interests to restrict alternatives.....

  and where have we heard THAT story before???????

  maybe Jack is still lobbying for his Indian clients - more effectively than in the past...... or is this a mere coincidence

  by xrepub on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 07:45:05 PM PDT

•  Online gambling gets kids involved

  Online gambling sucks.

  1. Can't be regulated.

  2. Odds mean nothing.  I do software and stat, and would NEVER gamble electronically.

  3. COLLUSION is always a huge problem.

  Online gambling should be outlawed.

  by centerdem on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:06:00 PM PDT

•  Online gambling = paperless voting

  How many here who are in favor of online gambling oppose paperless voting?

  If you are in that group, you are a moron.

  the two are EXACTLY THE SAME.

  by centerdem on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:09:30 PM PDT

  •  the same can be said of

    any slot machine in the world.  Online gaming is like any widespread gaming, they are forced by the players to be legit.  And as in all gaming, the house always wins (by taking a percentage of the play).  

    You are dead wrong on this issue.

    by concordepa on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:26:17 PM PDT

    •  Wrong, Bordering on Trollish

      by The Baculum King on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:31:02 PM PDT

      •  what is

        bordering on trollish?

        by concordepa on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:56:46 PM PDT

        •  Calling Folks 'Idiots' and 'Morons'

          by The Baculum King on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 09:13:12 PM PDT

  •  Also...

    the gaming industry prides itself on accuracy...if our voting system were as accurate as the gaming industry, Gore would probably still be President.

    by concordepa on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:27:28 PM PDT

•  Bush did not outlaw gambling, BTW

  He outlawed paying your gambling debts.

  Some clever thief will soon ensure that millions of morons will continue to piss away their money.

  Anyone ANYONE who plays online is an idiot, really.

  HOW CAN YOU ENSURE WHAT THE ODDS ARE?

  And, please, unless you are a statistician, don't give me any crap about long-run odds.  Long-run odds require the same deck, and online games may have many different decks.  

  Remember, on the internet, no one knows if you're a dog.

  by centerdem on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:13:14 PM PDT

  •  Poker is only partly odds

    Its also very much a skill based game.  If it were strictly odds, then you wouldn't have poker champs time after time.  Sure there is an element of luck to the game, but skill is more important.

    by concordepa on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 08:28:45 PM PDT

  •  Well, I will say

    that it appears that the law can be easily evaded through various means.  It just means online gamblers will need to use various intermediaries that aren't coded as a gambling transaction.

    by johnny rotten on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 09:00:46 PM PDT

•  I play online

  I play only at sites that have "freerolls".  Call me an idiot if you like, but I've made small amounts of money for zero cash outlay.  Not being entirely stupid, I'm aware that these sites are mousetraps - but I ain't buyin the cheese, the only cash I've played with is money I've won, and I've had a helluva lot of fun.  Someday I may make a whole lot of money playing Hold-em - or not. I guarantee you this though, if I do get rich (don't hold your breath) I won't have invested a nickel of my own money.

  by UneasyOne on Fri Oct 13, 2006 at 09:04:07 PM PDT