Breaking MD-Sen: Steele says that embryos should be adopted(w/poll)

On Meet The Press in the deabte between Ben Cardin and Michael Steele, Michael Steele just said that embryos in fertilty clinics should be adopted instead of destroyed. That's right. Blastula in petri dishes that will never develop into human beings should be adotped.

When asked if funding for fertility clinics should stop and these fertility clinics shut down, he said he didn't know enough about this issue and again reiterated his point about adoption of embryos.

Ben Cardin didn't laugh him off the stage or even attack him for this utter nonsense because honestly he is not very good debater. But this Steele statement should easily be used against him and the anti-stem cell research anti-science crowd.

Tim Russert's line of questioning is the first time that an embryonic stem cell research opponent was forced to answer these questions. This needs to be amplified far and wide so all opponents of embryonic stem cell research have to go on the record as opposing or supporting Micahel Steele's position on fertility clinics and the adoption of embryos.

Watch the repaly at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...

•  COuld you

  declare the blastula as dependents on your tax returns?  If so, Steele should sell it as a tax cut plan.  :-D

  by pontificator on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:37:41 AM PDT

  •  This needs further clarification...

    It goes to show that these idiots know nothing about the issue without RNC talking points.

    by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:39:11 AM PDT

    •  What Color Receiving Blanket Would You Use?

      Yellow or Green are always the safe options.

      by R2 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:51:07 AM PDT

•  I stole that yes answer...

  from an old comedy bit by Bill Hicks.

  by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:37:58 AM PDT

•  Adopted by whom?

  Whoever wants to adopt a blasto would have to either carry it to term or hire someone to do so.  And the blastos remain the property if those who had the invitro procedure in the first place.  

  I see a cottage industry here...

  by wozzle on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:40:07 AM PDT

  •  You could see that he came up with the answer...

    right at the moment that Russert asked him the question. Steele then got a look on his face like I just came up with great idea and repeated again. He will defintely regret saying such a thing and will avoid this question like the plague the next time he is aksed to clarify.

    He literally beleives that the embryos should be adopted not even carried to term. It shows that he doesn't think of the issue much other than to oppose it.

    by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:43:56 AM PDT

    •  Pitiful

      Wasn't he. I mean if you actually listened to what words he was saying. I'm glad Timmy went after him on this but as usual, facts and nuance are lost on the inattentive. Steele was very aggressive (rude I thought) interrupting, clearing his throat, but really had nothing substantial to say. However, my God, I never seen Ben Cardin so inarticulate!

      by never forget 2000 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:01:45 AM PDT

  •  400,000

    Did I hear Steel say there are 400,000 such embryos in need of adoption?

    Cardin missed the opportunity to jump all over the ridiculous nature of Steele's position.

    By the way, I recommend to anyone who is in a weak political position to watch Steele's performance.  I was impressed by his ability to attack because he could not defend the position he supports. It was masterful.

    by MoDem on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:49:26 AM PDT

    •  Worse- Steele is supporting human

      trafficking.  Here is the problem... If that is my blastocyst - who is Michael Steele to give it to someone else?

      Michael Steele and those other intefering  Republicans have no right to my eggs damn it!

      by inclusiveheart on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:56:06 AM PDT

      •  This is another good question...

        to ask. It opens so many cans of worms. I guarantee that he will back off this statement if he is pressed further on it.

        by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:58:45 AM PDT

      •  Adopting someone else's child

        You hit the nail on the head. Many couples who were lucky enough to succeed at IVF and have blastocytes or embryos "left over" will be generous enough to donate them, thinking of the couples who weren't so lucky. But what about the couples who can't live with the idea of knowing they have a genetic child out there and never see it?  They may be happy to donate it for research to potentially cure diseases rather than discard it.  Michael Steele has no business telling those couples to cough up their DNA for someone else.

        by achamblee on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 05:12:00 PM PDT

        •  Well also - no couple should be

          automatically be considered someone else's baby factory.  

          See the Handmaid's Tale and other actual historic literature for how screwed up it is to start expecting other people to have babies for the upper class (and we know that is largely who take these kids).  See also Mommie Dearest about Joan Crawford and her mothering endeavors.  Michael Steele and the rest of thesse nuts talk about "moral imperatives" while they are treading on such thin ice.

          For a black man to suggest that anyone have to give up their child to someone else by government decree given the history of black slavery in this country shows just what a dumb fuck he really is.  Sorry for the profanity, but there really is no other way of putting it.  When slavery was legal black women and men were often forced to give up their children.  He wants to return to that practice?  What a fucking idiot.

          Sigh.

          by inclusiveheart on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:53:29 PM PDT

    •  Not really 400,000 -

      Most of those "saved" cells are degraded beyond the ability to use them.

      Just attended huge stem cell research conference in NYC and learned a HECKUVA lot.

      by Blue Waters Run Deep on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 02:06:48 PM PDT

•  I saw it and was gonna diary.

  Thanks for doing it. Recommended!!!

  by Stand Strong on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:40:59 AM PDT

•  sick demented far right wing fundamentalist

  That's Michael Steele to a T.  I'm not sure why more hasn't been made of the fact that Steele opposes a woman's right to choose, even in cases of rape and incest. Even President Bush, a fellow "sick demented far right wing fundamentalist" doesn't go that far.

  by MattBellamy on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:41:15 AM PDT

  •  Steele v Bush?

    Actually, if both men believe that life begins at conception, Mr. Steele’s position is much more consistent with “Right to Life” than President Bush’s

    by leonard145b on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:56:56 AM PDT

    •  True

      it's consistent, but it's also a very unpopular position.  Only about 10% of the public would go along with him on that.

      by MattBellamy on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:02:11 AM PDT

      •  That very position

        currently boasts support from 42% of the public in South Dakota. From DakotaDem's diary earlier today:

        A new poll of 800 registered voters shows that South Dakotans oppose the abortion ban 52-42, with 6 percent undecided.  This is the bill signed into law by Governor Mike Rounds earlier this year that bans abortion, with no exception for survivors of rape and incest, and no exception for the mother's health.

        Full details from the Argus Leader.

        by moiv on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 03:00:51 PM PDT

•  I couldn't believe

  that Cardin didn't jump all over this ludicrous statement...

  by cedelson on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:42:04 AM PDT

  •  Cardin was not very...

    good at deabte and didn't go after Steele on anything.

    by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:44:59 AM PDT

  •  cardin has been asleep at the wheel

    for awhile now. he could be making gains just off of steele's quotes of the past two years.

    by Omen on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:46:24 AM PDT

    •  What did Ben Need to Say?

      Mr. Steele was self-destructing, why jump in and give the Repubs anything to work with? Let the editorial writers muse over the Department of Embryo Adoption.

      The voters of Maryland are pretty savy - largest Kerry margin in the nation I believe - so the Steele campaign will be on the defensive on yet another issue.

      We revive the constitution in 10 days and place the Bush presidency into formal lame-duck status if we do the work - get all of your friends and family to the polls!

      by tmmike on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:20:35 AM PDT

      •  I agree with ya tmmike

        At first, I thought Cardin was getting played by Steele -- who apparently feels that filibustering and interupting others is the way to win friends.  Then, the more I watched Cardin answering clearly with intensity, the more I saw that his advisors feel that's the best contrast against an opponent who starts talking and just cannot shut up.  Steele was a much weaker thinker and talker than I'd been led to believe by even some here on Kos talking about his talents.  That, plus the Md Dem edge, makes me understand the Post's 11 point lead for Cardin.  

        by Larry Bailey on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:04:05 AM PDT

      •  Kerry: DC MA RI VT NY > MD n/t

        by lurker on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:55:59 PM PDT

  •  Cardin could have done a lot of jumping

    Steele talked about the Iraq war--"We need to have a conversation."
    WTF?
    You mean the one where you guys callus Defeatocrats for trying to engage a discussion or offer our views?
    Where you shut Dems out of Congressional meetings?
    When you call us with the terrorists for offering up a dialouge?
    Bastards or when Steele said "Where were you in Congress ? You didnt offer anything?
    He replied he had sent a letter to the Congressional leadership about the NSA wiretappings and it didnt go anywhere he should have added LIKE the FOLEY CASE IMPRTANT ITEMS STOP AT THE SPEAKERS DESK AND GO NO FURTHER.
    He had so many opportunities to punch the lights out of that bag of hot air...............

    by JackAshe on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:48:05 AM PDT

•  I could feel the blood of infertiles

  run cold all over the country.
  I can't believe this asshat gets off to tell people what they should choose to do with their embryos.

  Infertility is a medical condition. This moron would dictate the terms under which we are allowed to get treatment. Cardin should have killed him on the privacy and medical self-determination.

  by Mozh on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:42:42 AM PDT

•  And For The Ones That Aren't Adopted?

  Let's all hold our breath as Mr. Steele draws up immediate plans for Foster Care.

  by leonard145b on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:43:10 AM PDT

  •  It almost seemed like Steele would have

    all women who follow thru on their periods arrested !

    by JackAshe on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:49:31 AM PDT

    •  Does It Follow Then?

      It must follow then that all men who masturbate are criminals.

      by leonard145b on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:55:04 AM PDT

      •  Exactly...

        when do we start adopting my sperm after I masturbate.

        by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:56:56 AM PDT

        •  LMAO

          by leonard145b on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:05:20 AM PDT

  •  There Was A NPR Segment About A Year Ago

    (maybe News & Notes) that said that the U.S. exports something like 1/3 of it's minority children to countries outside the U.S. for adoption. Someone with better search skills (mine are really bad) might want to find the research and write a LTE questioning Steele on why people should spend the money to adopt embryos when we currently export real live children for adoption outside the country.

    by MO Blue on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:30:55 AM PDT

    •  Waiting lists to adopt minority children in MD

      There are no healthy children "waiting" for adoption.  In MD, the waiting lists are closed, at least last time I checked.  Sadly, the only children waiting for adoption who have been cleared (meaning their parents rights have been terminated) have severe physical or mental problems.

      by achamblee on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 05:07:21 PM PDT

  •  my thought exactly: A foster home for the unadop

    adopted.

    by Valerius on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 03:21:40 PM PDT

•  Yes, and he also supported Roe v. Wade, but . . .

  . . . Cardin was too inept in the debate to do anything with this absurd contradiction.

  Underinformed undecideds who watched (lets hope they were few in number) would have been relatively impressed with Steele's "bipartisan" schtick and disappointed by Cardin (someone elsewhere said he gave empty suits a bad name this morning).

  Liveblog comments are worth reviewing

  by demondeac on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:46:48 AM PDT

  •  Well

    I don't think that Steele's schtick is going to be digested unquestionably under the current political circumstances. If this was 2002, I'd start to worry about this seat a bit.

    He's saying what he needs to say in order to have a chance, which even he admits. If the race was simply D vs. R, the R will lose. But Steele has tried to play it both ways on a lot of issues and hasn't carved out a distinct, mature political identity. He has the edge over Cardin when it comes to charisma but MD voters aren't going to elect Steele simply because he talks a good game.

    Cardin should be up towards where the newest WaPo poll is more consistently, but he seems to be running another safe, conservative, cautious campaign (just as he did in the primary).

    What Cardin needs to do is what Whitehouse is doing in Rhode Island...portraying a vote for Steele as a vote for a Republican Senate majority. When asked about whether or not Steele would vote for a Republican majority leader by Russert, he said (as if irrelevant) 'well, I guess so, yeah...' Cardin should talk more about the place for checks & balances and that there will be less likelihood of Congressional oversight if Steele is elected and Republicans retain control of the Senate.

    by jorndorff on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:11:31 AM PDT

    •  Agreed

      The point about Whitehouse is one I included in our liveblog. Cardin could not even explain the merits of checks and balances well.

      by demondeac on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:23:40 AM PDT

      •  Granted

        He didn't elaborate anywhere nearly as well as he could have. All the same, I think if voters are seriously concerned about checks and balances then they'll vote for Cardin despite his inarticulate style. It's really then not even about Cardin the person but rather Cardin the vote for a Democratic majority.

        Cardin is only going to be the junior Senator from Maryland, he's not going to have an influential hand in committee duties or be in a leadership position. (The same goes for Steele.)

        If the Cardin campaign could frame the election around that issue, they'd win big. It's a more refined attack that just tying Steele to Bush--they should tie Steele to the enablers of Bush, those that has consistently given him a blank check. But, as it is, I think he's still poised to win based merely on the toxicity of being a Republican this year.

        by jorndorff on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:42:47 AM PDT

•  Then Russert comes back with

  that there are 400,000 of them produced every year, and Steele simply didn't know what to say...

  by litho on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:49:38 AM PDT

  •  but they are all registered Republican

    and vote by mail.

    by crystal eyes on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:51:03 AM PDT

    •  Embryos Make Great Absentee Voters

      They have to vote absentee -- they have trouble getting to the polls.

      by R2 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:53:42 AM PDT

      •  Well

        They also have trouble signing the absentee ballot envelope too.

        by ortcutt on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:04:58 AM PDT

        •  Embryos Can't Pay Poll Taxes Or Show ID

          so maybe they aren't such good Republican voters...

          (snark is fun!)

          by R2 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:15:49 AM PDT

  •  I didn't even hear that part...

    I just fell to the floor laughing and ran to the computer to get this up. Steele needs to further clarify exactly what he means by this and other opponents of stem cell research need to go on record if they agree with adoption blastula in petri dishes.

    by eraske on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 08:53:59 AM PDT

•  Can I adopt some?

  Do you actually have to implant them when you adopt them or can you keep them in your own liquid nitrogen tank at home?  Can I list my adopted blastulae as dependents for tax purposes?

  by ortcutt on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:03:46 AM PDT

•  steele is nuts

  He tries to say he has no agenda and is a moderate and then says these crazy right wing talking points.
  Cardin lost the debate on points but obviosly was told we are ahead don`t say anything stupid and let steele hang himself.
  Steele is so out of the mainstream he could never represent the people in this state.

  by JOEL1954 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:04:32 AM PDT

•  I've actually semi-seriously proposed...

  ...that if I was in a position to decide Roe vs. Wade, I'd agree to overturn it on the following condition:

  EVERY legislator or voter who believes abortion should be outlawed would get their wish, on the SOLE condition that THEY would be REQUIRED to adopt at least one child each (two for couples, of course).

  It's called putting your money where your mouth is. IMHO, John McCain gets something resembling a "free pass" on his abortion votes because he adopted a kid himself.

  (yes, I'm being facetious here, but only partially...)

  by Brainwrap on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:07:44 AM PDT

  •  How 'bout THIS idea -

    Let's make everyone check off a little box on their tax return that says, Yes, I want to donate to stem cell research. (Or No, as the case may be.)

    Then, when we finally pass the research funding bill (like REAL SOON) and get some cures going, then ONLY those people who checked off Yes would be allowed to get the cures.

    Whaddya think?
    (Not my original idea, but interesting ...)

    by Blue Waters Run Deep on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 02:04:36 PM PDT

•  It's All About Increasing The Repub Base

  It would be so good just to be alive that if I was an adopted embryo, I’d be grateful to Mr. Steele for the rest of my life, and I would be a lifelong Republican. Still LMAO!

  by leonard145b on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:15:39 AM PDT

•  Cardin no empty suit

  I didn't see the whole hour but I am surprised at the negative, even nasty negative, comments about Cardin. Watching it, I thought Cardin did an excellent job. Every question I saw, he had a substantive comment, and parried negative commentary with strong factual rejoinders. Steele on the other hand, fumbled around and looked ridiculous on many questions, as commented above. I didn't think Cardin even needed to point this out, it was painfully obvious. Overall I thought it was a clear win for Cardin.

  I've seen a lot of these senate debates and found most of them painful to watch, as candidates squirm when confronted with controversial issues, and come out with the usual empty talking points, or conventional wisdom. This was one of the few times I thought a candidate -- namely, Cardin -- could answer most questions forthrightly.

  I'll be interested to see the rest of the opinions.

  by steep rain on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:17:15 AM PDT

  •  I did watch all of the debate . . .

    and many, many more as a part of DebateScoop.

    Cardin could not answer "forthrightly" on oversight investigations, whether he said he would cut off funding for the Iraq war, or why he might have opposed Clarence Thomas's nomination.

    The overall point, though, is that Cardin missed many opportunities. he did an "excellent job" of playing defense, perhaps. And that might be all he needed to do. However, Steele was the better debater.

    I think people's frustration is that most of us could have defended Cardin's positions better than Cardin himself did. Thus the "empty suit" label.

    by demondeac on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:32:32 AM PDT

    •  asdf

      Well, on oversight he played it squarely down the middle, effectively rattling off a few topics where oversight has been lacking and criticizing Congress for abdicating their responsibility, all the while not coming off as eager for a witchhunt. In short, he seemed quite reasonable on the issue. His answer on Thomas was not strong but was adequate (something about protecting civil rights), in view of what the court has done or might do in the future. That's a delicate business (Supreme court nominations) because we're not allowed a "litmus test" and he escaped reasonably well.

      Steele looked like a fumbling idiot on many occasions, incapable unless he had a prepackaged response.  I wouldn't at all call him the better debater, from what I saw. But just my opinion.

      by steep rain on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:44:48 AM PDT

•  Cardin's in a very awkward position

  He has to attack a popular black leader while wooing the black vote, all the while Steele plays the black victim and even uses race-baiting as a weapon.

  And the media can only focus on the race factor in the election, while giving Steele a pass on his many controversial opinions.

  Very awkward situation for Cardin. We're lucky he's doing as well as he is.

  by Naturegal on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 09:40:14 AM PDT

  •  this is a good point

    He has to attack a popular black leader while wooing the black vote, all the while Steele plays the black victim and even uses race-baiting as a weapon.

    which is why other (in-state) black leaders have difficulty w/ enthusiastic campaigning on Cardin's behalf.

    by kindertotenlieder on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:05:31 AM PDT

  •  Yeah Ben is in a awkward position but

    He's doesn't seem to be doing the ground work with his must win voters. He should be in every black church he can find from now until election day. There are not enough votes in Montgomery County to carry him and the more he neglects the black base (that has elected him before), the closer Steele comes. Baltimore City, Baltimore County. PG is tough, but Ben is MIA. Oh BTW, I sure wished Timmy had asked Steele about Katrina. That more than anything else is the best weapon against him.

    by never forget 2000 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:11:44 AM PDT

    •  Cardin has been working for the black vote

      In fact, that's the majority of what he does. He was in three events in PG County the other night, then he did the NAACP major event in Baltimore -- which Steele didn't attend. He was in black churches the week before. And he's been meeting with black leaders on an off the whole election.

      You can't say he's neglecting the black base. No matter what he does to woo the black base, people keep saying its not enough.

      The only way I think it will be enough is if he wakes up a black man tomorrow. Then people will be satisfied.

      by Naturegal on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:59:01 AM PDT

      •  I stand corrected

        It's just as a black supporter of Ben's, I hadn't seen him, but I'm in HoCo, so he knows he has us locked up. I don't think he needs to turn black.

        by never forget 2000 on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 11:02:24 AM PDT

•  Russert left out most important embryo question

  Russert left out the most important question about these adopted embryos for Steele:

  Would he be in favor of a law that forced fertility clinics and owners of the embryos to make these embryos available for adoption?  

  Imagine how popular that would be, with people having to know that they have biological offspring out there, or in the case of people conceived by in vitro fertilization, knowing that they have many biological siblings out there.

  by Lois on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:03:08 AM PDT

•  IVF and autism

  Medical records of children born after their parents sought fertility treatment showed they were four times more likely to have autism than those born to fertile parents....

  In July researchers at Guy's and St Thomas' hospital in London reported the prevalence of autism to be 0.39% in the general population, a figure that will include some children born to parents aided by fertility treatment. A fourfold rise in the risk of autism would see a child's chances of having the condition increase to 1.56%.

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/...

  Even IVF embryos carefully selected by trained physicians have a high autism rate four times higher than those from natural conception.

  The embryos not selected probably would have a much higher autism rate if brought to term.

  by SingleVoter on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 10:32:15 AM PDT

•  Nation -

  Unadulterated diary pimp here - come visit my friend CalifSherry's diary today at http://www.dailykos.com/...

  Stem Cell Crisis in California: John Garamendi and Michael J. Fox v. Tom McClintock

  Give it a recommend, and we'd love your esteemed comments! - Let's support each other in this effort.

  by Blue Waters Run Deep on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 02:11:28 PM PDT

•  So Steele would not overturn Roe & wants adoption

  for embryos.  So right wing crazies who stand outside Planned Parenthood and protest could now
  show their concern by adopting an embryo and carrying it to term and beyond.

  But, and contrary to the catholic church's postion which is actively in his campaing learned today tht he would not have voted to overturn Roe.  

  So what is his position or is his position decided at the moment.

  by Valerius on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 03:33:36 PM PDT

•  I agree Cardin is is a no win because of the

  active race baiting that steele is using and
  promoting.

  Further, Maryland has a sizable catholic influence.

  Cardin represents Baltimore, a heavily black city, and has done so for 20 years.  Mfume who lost to Cardin, and a black, supports cardin.

  And finally Cardin is a gueninely nice guy and an effective represenative and will be an excellent senator for Maryland.  He sill be an asset in a deomocrat congress because so much houslceaning needs to be done and experienced people are needed to do it.

  by Valerius on Sun Oct 29, 2006 at 03:38:05 PM PDT