Daily Kos

Amish school gunman 20- year old secret

Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 10:32:54 AM PDT

Here, apparently, is the secret that gunman who shot up the Amish school had.  Here's what happened to Charles C. Roberts IV about 20 years ago, when he was about 12.

According to CNN his wife said he had molested someone, possibly one or more family members aged 3 or 4, when he was 12.  His family said they had no knowledge of that.  This would not be an unusual thing in a case of child molestations; most do not come to light, and he as a 12-year old had far more power to keep it hidden than a 3-year old would to bring it to light.  But he remembered it, and was apparently troubled enough to tell his wife about it.

A child molesting other children is often someone who has been molested himself.   If I was interviewing a 12-year old molester, I would explore for that possibility.  Of course I can't interview this guy.  Regardless, as with all cases like this, it stays on my mind--where did this boy learn that behavior?  Who taught him?  Was it is own idea?  Is there an as-yet undiscovered adult behind the scenes who molested this guy, staying safe while the children in that schoolhouse became the objects of Roberts's rage?

Blaming the victim is very common in child molestation or incest cases.  Parents sometimes do it, authorities sometimes do it, some members of the Republican party are doing it now.  So perhaps Roberts did too.   If only you hadn't done/been XYZ, then I would not have had do do that!  Directing anger at the vulnerable rather than the more powerful is pretty standard behavior, regardless of who is really to blame.  But it's not always simple, not always straightforward.  That blame can help wipe away one's own shame, but it doesn't always work completely.  It can be an escalating sequence of self-blame and shame and other-blame and rage, and can get so intense that the only two alternatives can seem like "you die" or "I die".  

Now, 20 years later, did the shame at his own deed get mixed up with rage at the victims, and perhaps at the man who molested him (because the majority of people who molest children of either gender are male), get twisted up in Roberts's psyche to the point where he could no longer control his own actions?  Is that why he entered that school with guns, with lumber to hold the doors closed, with an absurd number of rounds and clothing and plastic handcuffs and toilet paper?  To somehow wipe away his own suffering?  To reclaim a feeling of power or safety?  To protect himself by removing temptation?

It's not possible yet to know.  And it's too easy just to say that he was a typical wackjob child molester--we don't have any evidence that he had molested children after the age of 12.  Children--including, perhaps especially, molested children--may molest once, and with treatment, never molest again.  He may have gone in that school intending to molest those children--tube of KY jelly was found in the schoolhouse and it's not standard equipment in Amish schoolhouses as far as I know--but there is no evidence that he did rape them.  Perhaps he struggled with his own urges.  CNN reports that he had been having dreams about molesting.  Perhaps he was terrified about what he might become.  About his decreasing lack of control over this behavior.  Perhaps he went into that schoolhouse to wipe away the temptation that he believed ruined his life 20 years ago--pretty little schoolgirls.  Perhaps...well, we don't know what his exact motivation was.

But as a psychologist, I would say that there is a big red flag here--that this boy had been molested himself.  He talked about being angry at God in his suicide letters.  It's not uncommon among religious people to, when something like this happens, to feel forsaken by God.  To feel angry at the deal being broken--the deal of "I follow you no matter what, and you take care of me no matter what".  When sick, sick horror like molestation breaks in, and the horror resounds for years, it is hard to square that with such a religious practice.  

Whatever way this turns out to have gone down, it may be a horrific testament to the lingering effects of molestation on even a pubescent child.  And on a young molester himself.  

And as Hastert and Shimkus and all the others covered up Foley's activity, as they facilitated Foley's predation on children, they gave not one thought to the nightmares they might be creating.  To them the pages were just things, just pieces of "ass", and Foley unbelievably more important.  A Republican seat unbelievably more important. The nightmares of others were nothing.  The nightmares they may have created begin with the victim, and then spiral out from there in widening circles.  May those politicians pay, like these little girls's families have paid, like Roberts himself seems to have paid.  A very, very long-term price.

Tags: child abuse, Amish, Mark Foley, Dennis Hastert (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 20 comments

  •  He Had Three Kids (5+ / 0-)

    I hate to think he molested them.  I'm sure his wife's worried about that over the years.  They'd been together what - 10 years?  So their kids are probably old enough to say something now if anything had happened.

    •  I hope so (5+ / 0-)

      but I know people in their 50s who still will not tell others that their father molested them.  It's a very difficult thing.  They accurately predict that they won't get a lot of support from some family or from the wider world.

      Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

      by rocketito on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 10:48:26 AM PDT

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      •  Kids (1+ / 0-)

        Just wondering what your thoughts are on a diary I put up earlier.  I asked folks how old they think children should be before we discuss this sort of thing (the shootings) with them.

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        You say you're a psychologist so I'm particularly interested in your take on this question.

        •  If they are going to hear it elsewhere (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          AllisonInSeattle, Alegre

          it is probably more useful that they hear it from us.  The more important consideration is language.  The language and content should be geared toward the child's understanding and their real concerns.  Those real concerns are often "am I safe and are you safe?".

          "Some bad people came in and hurt some kids in another state, and that was very sad for their moms and dads, but you and I are safe right here" is an example for a really young child.

          With older children they may be more able to understand the real facts of the matter.  "A sick man who lived across the street came into a school and shot some kids, but that isn't likely to happen again/won't happen again/probably won't happen" depending on the maturity of your child and your own comfort with directness.

          I don't think there is really a year in which all kids will be okay with this conversation.  Some five-year olds will want to talk about it, some seven-year-olds will be unable to even approach the subject.  Taking your cue from them can be helpful in terms of how much you say, and how, and when.

          Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

          by rocketito on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 11:26:00 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Many Thanks For the Reply (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            AllisonInSeattle

            I'm at a loss as to what to say.  My 5 year old daughter's old enough to absorb some of what's said on the news, and she may hear about this a little from the older kids at school.

            I'll try to ask her if she's heard anything and see if she has any questions about it all.

            BTW - great signature quote.  The Grapes of Wrath is one of my favorites.  Tom's bit at the end is truly insiring.

    •  Not in Amish community - kids must be silent (0+ / 0-)

      Per articles linked to in my posts elsewhere in this diary.

      Be good to each other. It matters.

      by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 06:07:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Good diary (9+ / 0-)

    I like the way you draw the analogy between Roberts and Foley. Roberts' case illustrates why we protect children from people like Foley.

    The Next Agenda a dkos-style blog for Canadian politics

    by Thursday Next on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 10:37:58 AM PDT

  •  Important Connection (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    BurnetO

    Nice. This is an important connection to make since these are the 2 biggest stories in the land right now.

    This deserves to be on Rec Diaries.

    Where's your tip jar?

  •  Oops--tip jar (19+ / 0-)

    I don't post diaries very often, so I forgot!

    To me, these two stories (Foley, Amish schoolhouse shooting) are one.  They represent exactly how it happens for victims.  Molested, expected to say nothing, depression and rage increase, likeliness of hurting others increases.  Horrific.

    Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

    by rocketito on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 10:46:36 AM PDT

    •  My daughters were not molested, (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rocketito, AllisonInSeattle

      but physically abused, which probably doesn't manifest to the same degree of shame that sex abuse might (I don't know, but quessing).  Still, it was years before they told even their best friends. Surviving the damage can be as difficult as surviving the abuse.  

      When I first learned that my kids were informing of their past, I knew we passed over a giant hurdle.  It still plays out in tiny ways, but I feel confident that it won't rule the direction of their lives.  I pity those that hold their dark secret close, they will never be free.

      Thanks for the great diary, Rocketito.  It's always comforting to reason out horrible events.    

  •  How did such a disturbed guy (0+ / 0-)

    acquire such an arsenal? Haven't seen any reports about that.

  •  You make a (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rocketito, AllisonInSeattle

    tremendous point about the connection between molesting and its consequences further down the road.  Thanks for your insight.

  •  Good points. Read about Amish molestors? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rocketito

    Some pretty horrible stuff going on there. Lots of it. Lots of it.

    I used to suppose not, but then the Internet came along, and I read an article exposing some of the comon practices in one community there. Beyond shocking.

    Be good to each other. It matters.

    by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 05:54:20 PM PDT

    •  Yes, it's not just just middle America any more (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      AllisonInSeattle

      Actually, high religiosity is predictive of greater risk of sexual abuse, as is degree of domination by males in a culture.  Amish get two of two.

      Babe, you're just a wave, you're not the water. --Jimmie Dale Gilmore

      by rocketito on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 07:02:22 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Thanks your reply (0+ / 0-)

        Like that "two of two" meme.

        A friend of mine is a volunteer Guardian ad Litem. She told me recently that a bunch of, I think she said "German Anabaptists" or similar religion had "really stepped up to the plate" and were caring for foster kids in her area.

        The hair on the back of my neck went up -- because I'd read those Amish articles.

        I really need to send her those links, and ask her to make sure someone investigates what's going on in that setup. She's no dummy.

        But if the folks who did the initial licensing were thinking "Oh, what wonderful religious people...", rather in the way I used to think of the Amish, they may not have investigated deeply.

        Sigh.

        Be good to each other. It matters.

        by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 09:35:20 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Brilliant closing paragraph (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rocketito

    Wow, on your thoughts about the insides of the Republican leaders as they processed this. About what they considered important.

    Be good to each other. It matters.

    by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 05:56:15 PM PDT

  •  Link to article: Amish sexual abuse (0+ / 0-)

    Aug. 29, 2006   "20/20" first aired this story on December 10, 2004

    The Amish community is a mysterious world within modern America, a place frozen in another time. The Amish live without automobiles or electricity. Education ends at the eighth grade and life largely centers on farming, family and faith.

    Some 90 percent of children raised Amish choose to stay in the community. But one who did not is 22-year-old Mary Byler.

    "I would read books and I'd imagine. I had a great imagination that would take me to faraway places, you know, places where I was afraid I would never be, but wanted to be," she told "20/20's" Elizabeth Vargas.

    Mary says she'd use those fantasies as an emotional escape from what she says was her horrible reality — a childhood and adolescence of sexual assault and rape.

    "If somebody was raping me, I'd look up to the ceiling, count the blocks or count the cracks in the wall, or just I was completely not there emotionally. I would have committed suicide many times over if I wouldn't be strong," she said.

    Through the years, by Mary's account, she was raped by several different attackers. But one abused her more often than the others — her brother Johnny. Johnny, one of Mary's eight brothers, began assaulting her when he was 12 and she was 6. The assaults continued into her teen years, she said.

    BTW, they are quie possibly using pseudonyms.

    http://abcnews.go.com/...

    Be good to each other. It matters.

    by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 05:59:39 PM PDT

    •  Another article on same subject (0+ / 0-)

      http://www.legalaffairs.org/...

      "I may have been to blame, too," Kathryn Byler said in court at her husband's sentencing in December 1998. In earlier interviews with detectives, Byler faulted herself for failing to sexually satisfy her husband. Like Sally, she talked about administering an herbal remedy to reduce his sex drive. "She knew what was going on. It was almost, 'Take my daughter by the hand and let's go to the barn,' " said Sergeant Paul Mills, who helped investigate the case. " 'So sayeth her husband,' and whatever he says is the way it has to be."

      While we talked, Kathryn sat in a rocking chair, which she'd polished to a high shine. She wore metal-frame glasses and a dark green dress, pinned together because her church doesn't allow zippers. Beneath her black bonnet, her face was plain and open. As her religion dictates, she wore no makeup or jewelry. Though she was afraid to talk and spoke softly, fear didn't stop the words from rushing out of her. It felt good, she said as she settled into her chair.

      Be good to each other. It matters.

      by AllisonInSeattle on Tue Oct 03, 2006 at 06:06:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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