The war is over, Bush has lost it, and we will pay

   A few weeks ago a secret U.S.Marine report was leaked detailing a drastic increase in insurgent activity in Iraq's Al Anbar province, the Sunni area in which Al Queida is most actively recruiting, training, and "blooding"  it's fighters. (a soldier who has actually fought -been blooded- and survived is worth several raw recruits)  A few days later U.S. forces were WITHDRAWN from the province and "redeployed" to Bagdad.  I expected this to be a major news story, because it means WE HAVE LOST THE WAR.  Remember, "we're fighting them over there, so we don't have to fight them over here"?  WE are in full retreat-we have lost.  Mussharif, our "ally" in Pakistan, has made a treaty providing for a safe haven in Waziristan for the Taliban, poppy production is at record levels, and we are losing there too.

   In response, Republicans call the Dems "the party of cut and run", AND THE DEMOCRATS SIT STILL FOR IT!!!!!!!!!  I just heard a segment on "The Newshour" where that lie was repeated several times - without response from the Democratic consultant.
   A LIE REPEATED, UNCHALLENGED, IS TAKEN FOR TRUTH.                        
   WHEN A LIE IS TOLD, DEMOCRATS, CALL IT THAT, LOUDLY AND IMMEDIATLY---OR IT WILL STAND.
 

•  Unfortunately

  as long as Bush is president and can control (by security classification) what information is being released to the public, it is very difficult for Democrats to use hard evidence.

  I am sorry to say, but I think it is going to take a full-scale rout to put an end to this madness in Iraq.  A lot of us knew it would come to this, but no one would listen to us.

  Imagine, a country just 200 years old taking on the cradle of civilization with such unbridled impunity.  As much as I hate to say it, we deserve what we will get.

  by CryMeARiver on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 06:21:33 PM PDT

•  It troubles me when I hear democrats

  say that we need more troops or a better strategy.  That's what the generals kept telling LBJ--just give us some more troops and we can turn this thing around.
  This war was unwinnable from the get go.  Bush Sr. didn't go in and take S H out because he knew that it would be mad to try to be an occupying foreign presence in Iraq.  He advised His son against it.
  When we leave, as we eventually must, the Iraqi army we trained will fold just like the ARVNs did in Vietnam.
  It's going to be a goatfuck after that.
  The best option is to try to work toward a partition of the country into Kurdish,Shiite and Sunni sectors.  The hardest thing will be dividing the oil.  Then if we could get the UN or NATO to stay between them it might work--the area might become reasonably stable again  
  None of this would be easy, but I think it's either that or anarchy followed by a very brutal dictatorship.  

  by John L on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 06:30:09 PM PDT

  •  strategy

      I suggested none---I merely pointed out that the only feeble rationalle for continuation of this war, to protect us from future terrorism, was dead and stinkin'.  I absolutely agree that the only strategy with any hope of success is to divide Iraq into Kurdish, Sunni, and Shia sections (the Biden plan).  This strategy is not without it's own problems, not the least of which are: the turks ain't gonna like it - and may invade; Iran is gonna move into the Shia areas (like they haven't already), and the Sunni area is gonna be an Al Queida haven par exellance (like it isn't already).  Otherwise, no problem.

    by UneasyOne on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 07:17:44 PM PDT

  •  John L., I followed you up, all the way until

    "GOATFUCK".

    That's where your sterling comment gave out. Oh, "Goatfuck" is the right way to put it, of course, because that aptly chosen phrase of yours is exactly how Bush's un-provoked, unnecessary, largely unilateral invasion and unplanned occupation of Iraq (UULUIUOI)is going to end.

    Where you went wrong is in posing options, because there are no options other than leaving; and doing what we should have done in the beginning.

    When our oil is under some one else's sand, we're supposed to buy it.

    Not bomb them.

    by Vigil Lante on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 08:38:14 PM PDT

    •  Sorry I took so long to reply

      You may be right--it may be too chaotic a situation for anyone to control.
      If things start to fall into pieces like Yugoslavia after Tito though perhaps we wouldn't be trying to change historical forces, just channel them.
      Thanks for your comment.

      by John L on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 08:32:58 PM PDT

•  bob woodward was on hardball,

  according to him, we are losing the war, and our fearless leader bush knows we are. Woodward also said for a President to call the Democrats "cut and run"because they want a different course in this war. is wrong. In the last few days, twenty one of our soldiers have been killed. 700 to 1000 Iraqi police officers have been suspended for aiding and abetting the terrorists. Looks like "when they stand up, we'll stand down" is going to be put on hold for awhile.

  by bonesy on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 06:56:19 PM PDT

•  Democrats are afraid

  Afraid to say the truth. The war is lost.  They should say it loud and clear and lay the blame at bush's feet

  by Saz on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 07:42:14 PM PDT

•  On NPR today - maybe yesterday

  a lt. in Anbar Province was interviewed. Of course, he "couched" his answers but basically said their mission was training but he finds few recruits. Most of his recruits are Shias and Kurds. Again, our soldiers can't hold areas that were in their control - one, two, three times before. Cheney seems to want to outlast the insurgents, an impossible task.

  I think more and more people are turning to sources such as NPR to learn what our newspapers don't tell us. Now there are some 60% of us who oppose this war and this number will increase when more people realize how many we have lost in the last four days. I think many of us realize the number of deaths would go up once Rumsfeld called for more troops in Baghdad.

  by paige on Wed Oct 04, 2006 at 07:45:15 PM PDT