Will the Democrats *really* improve the process?

For some of us, this question is easy to answer in the affirmative.  But for others, perhaps more than care to admit, the answer is "well, they can't be worse".  I'm one of those others.

I have faith in the netroots with regard to this question, but NOT the Democratic party as a whole.  Frankly, I fear that beltway Dems are just as likely to sell out to corporate interests as the Republicans are.  And I do NOT want the energy, money and time I put in trying to elect them going to waste.  And so I ask, will Democrats really improve the legislative process?

When I think about John Kerry spending my hard earned contributions on sending Bob Shrum to Tuscany after pocketing millions, I get pissed off.  When I think about lobbying firms beefing up with Democrats, I get nervous.  But when I think about my own Dem rep Crowley's activities in regards to the bankruptcy bill, I get really really nauseous.

I know on a core level, that the "special interests" of Democrats are fundamentally different than those of Republicans.  According to this TPM Cafe thread, we are about minorities, women, labor, environmentalists, etc.   Repubs are supposedly about the Energy Lobby, Drug Lobby, and Military Industrial complex.  

But I fear that as Democrats come into power, they are ripe for the plucking, as traditional Republican interest groups retool their staffs to pounce on freshman legislators, eager to fill their warchests with booty.  Booty!

As I understand it, and I'm probably wrong, the only finger in the dyke at this point seems to be the netroots.  If these new legislators see their constituents as the primary source of financing, instead of contributions from lobbyists, they'll be less beholden.

So how do we make sure meaningful lobbying reform gets on the agenda and stays there?  Is it already in the works?  Do we just have to accept that its part and parcel of government, and live with it?

•  Put my mind at ease; scare me more...

  Looking for any feedback on these issues and if I truly need to be worried about this or not.  I admit I'm probably not particularly up to speed on finance and legislative reform planks of the Democratic platform.

  by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:38:16 PM PDT

•  I can't see anyone

  thinking that Democrats could be even remotely as bad as Republicans after what we have lived through over the last 5 years.

  Imagine if Gore was the President, knowing what we know of the man. I am certain we would not be in the mess we are right now.

  I am donating every extra buck I have to Democrats all across this country. They will make a big difference.  A difference I want to be a part of and support!

  I have to wonder about people who think Democrats will be just as bad. That is absurd. Actually it's beyond absurd.

  by iliketodrum on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:43:01 PM PDT

  •  Note: I agree, however..

    ..will the same Democrats now happy to take your money listen to you when you complain that they're not passing legislation that helps ordinary people?

    That's really the main reason I'm posting these concerns.

    Please check out the Crowley link, and let me know what you think about it if you have time.

    by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:46:40 PM PDT

    •  If you want people to behave differently you

      ...have to set different standards of behavior and enforce those standards.

      Republicans don't do anything unless it's for profit. Democrats are actually motivated by idealogy of the common good.  Americans will figure out you cannot eat and drink the profit of OTHERS, profit of others does not care for the old and the sick, profit of others does not shelter you from cold. Profit is heartless, mindless, souless, it is a business concept made into a God that says "tax shelter over all other concepts of humanity."

      Reward those Democrats with your votes that fight the souless Profit theory of government, and you have more power over them than any corporation.

      If I read one more diary on this theme of "it's will be of no use to keep electing our guys"  I will scream. Good thing you can't hear me.  I do expect more of these bullshit diaries in the coming days, I even have it figured out what times and days they tend to show up, and what formula they are being written to, and why in hell the gullable have to pick up on this republican themed crap and repeat it is beyond me.

      So, in order to get a majority in the House, so we can restore our system of checks and balances, I will not be badmouthing your candidate or the last Dem. presidential candidate (Good Grief, GIVE IT A REST, would you?)  and will be campaigning instead for my local Democratic candidate, who is running a great campaign in a very difficult district.

      In your district, the time to have changed candidates was back in the primary. You've missed that boat, now either get behind the idea of electing Democrats or here's the life preserver and a pair of flippers and call us when you've reached the shore.

      by AmericanRiverCanyon on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 03:56:44 AM PDT

  •  Gore

    Let us not forget that Gore was a pretty big Putz during the 2000 election. Beating such a pathetic figure as George Bush by only three points was and is pretty pathetic, regardless of the whole Florida debacle. It was losing that made Gore a principled man. If he had won, we would likely have been living in a much better country, but still with compromized, triangulated politics nevertheless.

    by redhaze on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:45:25 AM PDT

•  Stay the course with GOP ain't working...

  I say the ship is seaworthy, we just gotta change the crew.

  by 8ackgr0und N015e on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:43:06 PM PDT

•  yes

  you have to accept the fact that lobbyists and moneyed interests will always exist in politics.  even if a third party won an election.  

  you do have to accept this fact.  it has never been any other way.  and it never will be any other way.

  but.  now.  perhaps you, and perhaps the good people of america might be -- aghast, fuck me! -- SMART ENOUGH to figure out that a democrat working with British Petroleum to develop an alternative fuel source is slightly different than a repug working with chevron/mobile to price gouge americans.

  tell me.  do you think you're smart enough to tell the difference??

  what about the rest of america??

  i know i am at least that smart.

  by BiminiCat on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:48:16 PM PDT

  •  I wish I had your confidence..

    When a country can be snowed by the mere title of a bill such as "No Child Left Behind", "Healthy Forests Initiative", and oh, say the "Bankruptcy Reform Bill" it seems naive to think they won't be blindsided by its contents, especially when not even the media accurately reports them.

    But I want to believe.

    by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:52:55 PM PDT

    •  i never said i had any confidence

      i'm pretty darn convinced if a good diarist on dkos can't tell the difference than the rest of america has no fucking chance in hell.

      no.  quite the contrary.  i'm more pessimistic than you are.

      we are fucked.

      by BiminiCat on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:54:22 PM PDT

    •  What needs to happen is this:

      Don't let up the pressure just because our guys are in office.

      Simple.

      by coigue on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:57:08 PM PDT

    •  PS

      My point is this:

      It's your party. Build it.

      by coigue on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:17:11 PM PDT

      •  It is! I yam! Yeearrrghhhhh!

        by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:29:34 PM PDT

        •  Yeeeearrrrghhhhhh!

          That's the spirit.

          We;re in this for the long haul.

          Even when the haul seems very long, and the light at the end very dim.

          by coigue on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:36:57 PM PDT

•  Pelosi's first item

  on The First One Hundred Hours of a Democratic House is

  Put new rules in place to "break the link between lobbyists and legislation."

  This is on the list too:

  Allow the government to negotiate directly with the pharmaceutical companies for lower drug prices for Medicare patients.

  by srkp23 on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:53:01 PM PDT

  •  Great!

    I'll look that up.  Any helpful specifics as to what she has in mind?

    by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:53:59 PM PDT

  •  Election Reform?

    Off-topic but I don't see this on Pelosi's list.  Seems pretty important since all power flows from this.  Maybe we have to wait till Week #2.  I think I can handle that. :)

    by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:59:49 PM PDT

•  You vote for ...

  ... the lesser of two evils.

  Or as Mr. Parker and Stone put it ...

  by lifexpert on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:53:40 PM PDT

•  Depends on the Democrat(s)

  The DLC is nearly dead, which will help. Hopefully we'll be talking about "the class of 2006" for a long time. One would expect that class to be a major reforming influence.

  And the netroots will play a role in holding them accountable as they begin the process of starting to clean up our government. It's going to take a very long time, and it won't all be perfect. But it has to start somehow.

  by stilwell on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:54:06 PM PDT

  •  Very True

    This is a huge uphill battle, and it won't happen over night, and it's going to take every day Americans finally getting sick of the plutocracy we've got going on now seeing how it affects their own lives to change it. I think this last five years has given them a big dose even if they don't understand or follow the underpinnings.

    by uniongal on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:54:32 PM PDT

•  if they don't

  secure they vote from private interests, i.e. if they don't make sure voting machines are run on open source code, nothing else really matters because we won't even be able to vote change into existence at that point.

  by john de herrera on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:58:02 PM PDT

  •  Agreed on the first part, but Stone

    and Parker on basically right wing propagandists. When they're not telling jokes about shit, they are lambasting liberals and Democrats.

    by tigercourse on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:06:22 PM PDT

•  Step one: Get Dems control of House and Senate

  Step 2: Get better candidates....work in primary elections, etc.

  by coigue on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 09:58:31 PM PDT

  •  Exactly

    Fight the battles one by one and hope to see more victories where the guys that the money interests didn't support upset them with grass roots support, and it's happened this time around, and I love it.

    by uniongal on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:57:15 PM PDT

•  Let me put it this way...

  ...if they kill the Iraq war, pay down the debt, and roll back the Patriot Act I'm willing to look the other way on intern blow jobs and old fashioned graft.

  Bush has lowered the bar so much, it won't take much to jump over it.  U.S. Grant looks like Benjamin Disraeli compared to the current Shithead in Chief.    

  by CrazyHorse on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 10:45:23 PM PDT

  •  More BJs

    I never minded the First Fluffer.  Neither the lying about it.  Hell I lie all the time to protect my private life.  That's what keeps it private!

    What's key is the level of influence that corporate interests have on our legislators.  

    As I understand the consensus here, it will be a continual process--applying pressure to our own representatives constantly to make sure we keep it in check.

    How's that initiative to put that searchable legislation tracking system on-line?  Didn't some Repub Senator have some kind of secret kung-fu grip hold on it?

    by pawlr on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 11:00:46 PM PDT

•  Many reasons it will be better:

  1. Improving lobbying rules and house procedures is a top priority.

  2. Netroots/grassroots are far more important with the Dem party

  3. Even apart from the roots groups, the Dem party is far more bottom-up than the Repub party

  4. No Tom Delay

  I don't expect perfection but  I do think things will be much better. Last go-round, even after 40 years, we didn't get nearly as bad as the Repubs have in 12.

  by curtadams on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 11:06:49 PM PDT

•  The Dems Who Will Make Things Better

  Look at what the Dems have tried to do with oversight, and who have been stifled with trying to get some truth out there, and I'd agree with a lot of the others here and say oversight for now will be a God send,and the trash in our completely corrupt government we've got now will get cleaned out to a great degree. Waxman has a list a mile long of people he's ready to take to task. So does Conyers. Obey has been trying to keep these guys honest forever with no luck.

  The list of the slime that these three Congressmen alone will bring to the light of day I'm sure is astounding with all the GOP has been covering up. I think you're going to possibly see a truly shocked public that doesn't know all of the crap these guys have been pulling under one party rule once it's finally forced to come to light since the media has not been doing it's job with exposing them, and literally corruption overload, and a real demand by the public for a clean up of Washington on all sides.

  I think the GOP's misdeads, and the exposure of them will make both parties ultimately clean up their acts since the public hopefully will be finally screaming to the hills about what's gone on once they are exposed to it. That's my hope anyway, and if we at least get back the House, it will happen. No more hearings held in the basement that the press can pretend like didn't happen, and ignore.

  Just imagine what it will mean for the Dems to finally be able to get Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld forced to testify, in open hearings, and under oath. It's going to be a blood letting and if Bush doesn't completely crack if forced to do so, I'd be shocked.

  by uniongal on Sat Oct 07, 2006 at 11:10:14 PM PDT

•  David Obey

  A man with a mission, he's gonna make sure that we clean house.

  by dragon695 on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:08:16 AM PDT

•  Howard Dean has told us to focus on the long

  haul. For me that meant not giving to the Democratic Party or single issue groups but selecting candidates all over the country I thought could affect change if elected and I have donated to them since May.  I think there's some hope but I'm realistic.  The Dems will take a long time, if ever to get it right, to make the changes really needed to deal with global warming, act in accord with out national purpose when dealing with other nations, settle differences through negotiation, provide universal health care for our citizens,  clear the national debt and restore DEMOCRATIC values and ethics in the congressional agenda. We have to keep the faith. The blogs help me do that.

  by walkabout on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:21:32 AM PDT

•  The Democrats need to reform the electoral system

  to keep whatever belief in them they are getting because the Repugs are so bad.

  "Lesser-evil" voting only goes so far. When Democrats, Greens and others hit the streets together to mobilize against Bush they are allies. However, when those same people go into the voting booth they become enemies because of the "spoiler problem". This has to change.

  The Democrats are looking good by comparison, but there are still 50% of voters who are not registering Democrat or Republican.

  The solution is Instant Runoff Voting which allows the voter to rank choice their ballot. Then we all become allies again in the voting booth.

  by jim d on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:30:09 AM PDT

•  My biggest fear is not the Republicans winning...

  My biggest fear is the Democrats winning, and things staying exactly the fucking same. Think about it, all it takes is a few "ship jumpers" in the house and senate to make it so. Bush can set the agenda, and still get exactly what he wants. Our ship, for one reason or another, is not run nearly as tight as the Republicans when it comes to getting them to vote in lock step. THIS IS NOT A GOOD THING, AND IS NOT AN INDICATION OF MORE DIVERSITY IN OUR PARTY!

  When politicians on our side vote for things like bankrupcy "reform", torture, tax breaks for the rich, etc. it is an indication that there is something rotten to the core with the political process. Let us whip these policians in shape (even through threats or intimidation, just as the Repubs. have done for the last six years) and produce some real positive change for our country.

  by redhaze on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:51:36 AM PDT

  •  Would you care to elaborate on your last sentence

    .....about "threats and intimidation" being appropriate? It's so early for my first doughnut serving and I wanted to get the flavor right.

    by AmericanRiverCanyon on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 04:05:49 AM PDT

    •  I just mean that...

      Repubs. vote in lock step on nearly every bill. Some (such as Arlen Specter) will come out against bills early, and then vote in lock step later. Why? What is it that they have on these guys? It must be pretty bad, whatever it is, they are clearly being threatened and intimidated.

      We need to do this! I'm sure we can find something on Joementum and these other douchebags that would prevent defection. Our side should find these things and use them to counter the influence of lobbyists, etc. It is unseemly, but it has been a long time since we have had any positive changes in our country. If coersion is what it takes to get things done, we should do it.

      by redhaze on Sun Oct 08, 2006 at 12:56:13 PM PDT