Daily Kos

Krugman: a regional realignment

Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:00:53 AM PDT

In Krugman's column today (and Times Select is free this week), he says this:

Moreover, the new Democratic majority may well be much more effective than the majority the party lost in 1994. Thanks to a great regional realignment, in which a solid Northeast has replaced the solid South, Democratic control no longer depends on a bloc of Dixiecrats whose ideological sympathies were often with the other side of the aisle.

I have some thoughts about this. Follow me to the flip:

For one thing, he's right. We picked up the house with very little help in the Old Confederacy, as CNN's map illustrates. Seats that flipped are shown in the map in light blue. So, it's pretty graphic to look at that map and see the huge swath through the northeast and into the midwest.

There are still seats that are undecided, but, at the moment, we only flipped 3 seats in the entire Old Confederacy, and two of those were instances where we got a 'perfect storm' affecting the incumbent (Delay's seat and Foley's seat). So, thus far, the only Dem who took on a Repub seat and won without the whole scandal/write-in thing in Delay and Foley's seats was Heath Shuler (who probably is more philosophically in-tune with the old Dixiecrats than he is to Nancy Pelosi). Yes, Larry Kissel may make it two. Even if it's two; there were that many in just New Hampshire!

There are two things I find interesting in these results. One I just mentioned: New Hampshire. It's a bellweather. Growing up in the People's Republic of Massachusetts, you learn early that our neighbors to the north are 'conservative', especially as compared to those of us in the People's Republic :-). Which they are.

To a point.

There was a Democratic Storm in NH. I'm sure some of it was local, because both houses of the state legislature turned Dem (for the first time since 1912). But a lot of it was disgust with the national Repub party. Why is that? Tax cuts? Nope, they love tax cuts in NH. The war? I'm sure that's part of it. But the other two parts? The deficit, and Schiavo. New Hampshirites don't like taxes but they like deficits even less--the whole 'flinty frugal New Englander' thing. And the NH conservativism is most definitely libertarian-leaning. They don't want you in their wallet but they don't want you in their bedrooms either. Any regulation of personal behavior tends to go down in flames in NH--this is a state that proudly rejected a law mandating helmets for motorcycle drivers. Laws mandating seat belt use go down in flames up there. The government interfering in a private family decision about death? Complete anathema to most New Hampshirites.

So, part of my point is that some of the 'dems' we trumpet down south wouldn't get elected as dogcatcher in NH as a Repub. Shuler? Ford? Not. A. Chance.

But we took NH. Big-time.

We also took a huge swatch of seats throughout the northeast and the midwest. The northeast is getting deeper blue--and those Repubs that are holding onto their seats up here, it's people voting for the person. Christopher Shays is well-liked in his district; people vote for him despite, not because, of the R after his name. If he retires in 2008--if any of the northeast R's retire--that seat is Dem, guaranteed, unless the Repubs radically realign their party.

THe midwest--and, to a lesser extent, the Plains and the Mountain West--are the battleground.

This is vivid in the house, and with one partial exception in the Senate. Of the six seats we took in the Senate, two were in the Northeast. One was clearly in the midwest, and one in the Mountain West. Missouri is a border state, but more midwestern than anything. Virginia is clearly a southern state of the Old Confederacy; but northern Virginia isn't very 'southern'.

Am I saying we can control this country without the South? Yep, that's exactly what I'm saying. Now, this is not a disagreement with Dean's 50 State Strategy. We may not have won some of the races we challenged, but we forced the Repubs to spend money. This is always a good thing. But should we count on winning majorities based on the South? Nope.

Honestly, I have to admit I'm thrilled that we took the Senate without relying on Harold Ford. He's the wrong skin color to be a true 'dixiecrat' but boy does he talk like one on certain things.

Which brings up another point: this whole 'we won by electing conservative dems' crap. No, we didn't. THere will always be a few: Shuler, at least a couple of 'em in Indiana. But neither of the folks elected in NH are conservatives. John Hall isn't a conservative. Patrick Murphy, Michael Accuri. We elected progressives, especially in the Northeast.

I certainly think we should contest all seats, all states, all the time. But I also think we can win without the south, we can win without running DINOs, and we can win without relying on the likes of Harold Ford.

29 seats so far. 26 in areas that aren't the south. Fully ten in NH, NY, CT and PA. About that in a swath from Indiana to Iowa. That's where we win.

Tags: Paul Krugman, realignment, south (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 43 comments

  •  Tips (24+ / 0-)

    or not :-)

    You bet your ass I'm bitter. And, yes, middle-america 'values' voters, you *have* been duped. Obama's right. And I'm bitter as hell.

    by ChurchofBruce on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:57:44 AM PDT

  •  I also have a theory about NH... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    wiscmass

    Massholes have moved there in record numbers over the last few years. Nuff said.

    It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

    by ablington on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:01:17 AM PDT

    •  I've never understood that theory (5+ / 0-)

      A lot of the people moving up here are trying to ESCAPE high taxes. It isn't obvious to me that they make the state more progressive.

      Indeed, the towns where a lot of them move, like Bedford, tend to be solid red.

      •  NH - it's the libertarianism more than (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        N in Seattle

        the migrants from Mass.  Bruce and Elwood are right.  The big southern NH suburbs (Salem, Derry, Bedford, Amherst) with lots of Mass. escapees are GOP.  The Dem votes are coming from traditionally liberal cities (Concord, Dover, Portsmouth) and smaller towns with migrants from other than Mass. (northern Lakes Region, Mount Washington Valley, Grafton County, Monadnock Region), and areas of moderate (educated) Republican natives who feel that the GOP has left them, as well as old mill towns where the "Reagan Democrat" trend may have run its course.  Add to that the ease of straight ticket voting to send a message regarding Bush and Iraq (some new Dem legislators had no intention of winning and did no campaigning; they just allowed their names to be used and now are stuck going to Concord for the next 2 years), and you have a landslide.

        •  Everyone I know who moved (0+ / 0-)

          from MA to NH--and I know a lot--weren't Democrats, and moved to NH expressly to escape the People's Republic. My soon-to-be-former in-laws, for one example, are probably seething that they suddenly live in a blue state :-).

          You bet your ass I'm bitter. And, yes, middle-america 'values' voters, you *have* been duped. Obama's right. And I'm bitter as hell.

          by ChurchofBruce on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:28:01 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe they should go on moving (0+ / 0-)

            until they wind up in Utah. I think that Utah's not going to turn blue anytime soon because:

            1. A lot of what movement conservatism espouses (low taxes, laws restricting sex education, birth control, euthanasia, etc.) fits right in with the LDS Church's outlook. And, except for the Wasatch Front, most of the population of Utah is LDS.
            1. The LDS Church tries to discourage reality-based thinking and encourage trust and deference to authority in its members from toddler-hood. Members who apply logic to the Church's history and theology tend to not be members for long--which is bad for the Church. (This tendency has left many Utahns particularly vulnerable to Bush-worship and bunco scams.)
            1. The LDS don't expect the Federal or State Government to take care of them in exchange for their tax money; they tithe 10% to the Church, and that's who they expect to care for them when they're in trouble. It kind of sucks for the non-members, but that's their problem.

            If you're still in touch with your ex's family, perhaps you might suggest that they go there.

      •  Most people are moving so they can afford a house (0+ / 0-)

        you get much more bang for your buck in NH

        It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

        by ablington on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 10:49:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I'll put it a less obnoxious way (0+ / 0-)

      There's been a significant demographic shift in Southern NH. Sheez, they even have some new alternative weeklies cropping up there!

      If your ballot isn't paper, it ain't a ballot.

      by brooklyn greenish on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 10:27:55 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sure, that's where we win now... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RoIn, sobermom, Bayern Munich

    ...but remember, we were getting blown out all over the South. We're making gains everywhere -- the 50 state strategy is working. Now we just need to work our butts off for the next two years to consolidate our gains and turn those close losses in the South and Midwest into pick-ups.

  •  good diary (5+ / 0-)

    That Krugman is great.

    Still, we can't turn our backs on the upper South.  If Kissell wins (PLEEAASSEEE), that's 2 in NC, the same number as New Hampshire and not too far behind Indiana. Not to mention the important Senate win in VA.

    Virginia, Tennessee, North Carolina, and Kentucky are changing.  Population is increasing, people are moving around within these states and moving into these states from elsewhere, and new generations of kids are outgrowing their parents' narrow-minded world views.  Count in the military presence, growing high tech job sectors, and the number of good colleges in these states, and you have an area we have to fight over.

    But, yes, the takeover from Ohio out into the rest of the Midwest is encouraging.

    Look, Lois - the two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant, and a fat white man who's afraid of change. -- Peter Griffin

    by Bayern Munich on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:02:44 AM PDT

    •  Ohio proved (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sobermom, metal prophet, esquimaux

      that true populist-progressive positions can win elections.  This was an election about issues here.  As in many places, people are much more economically liberal than has been recognized.

      •  I agree (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Bayern Munich

        Just because someone isn't that thrilled about abortion or gay marriage doesn't mean they think that supply side economics, pro-investor trade agreements, corporate corruption, and a gutting of social programs are wonderful things. And Sherrod Brown proved that you can convince people to vote for you despite their social prejudices, if you have a populist economic approach. An economic approach that works hard to distinguish yourself from the Republicans. The closer we are to Republicans on economic issues, the more likely that socially conservative blue collar voters will favor the GOP.

    •  WE have to run good people everywhere (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      curtadams, marykk, red bed head

      There are Democratic districts in the South. Some of the most liberal progressives I know live in Montgomery, Alabama, which is a very Democratic town. And look at Pennslyvania. Yes some of it is Blue, but a lot of it is still red. I'll take some of those Democratic representives from the south to make up for the Petersons and Shusters of Central Pennsylvania.

    •  House gains by region (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lysias, RoIn, sobermom

      Northeast: 11 (10 if we lose CT-02) (2 in NH, 2(1) in CT, 3 in NY, 4 in PA)

      South: 5 (6-8 with Kissell and/or Jennings and the Rodriguez-Bonilla runoff, but could be as low as net 3-4 if we end up losing one or both of the GA seats) (1-2 in NC, 2-3 in FL, 1 in KY, 1-2 in TX)

      Midwest: 9 (could be as many as 11 if the OH races go our way) (1-3 in OH, 3 in IN, 1 in WI, 1 in MN, 2 in IA, 1 in KS)

      West: 4 (could be as many as 7 if WY-AL, NM-01, and WA-08 come through) (1 in CO, 2 in AZ, 1 in CA)

      The frogurt is also cursed. -8.25, -6.51

      by Superribbie on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:13:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  NH factors (4+ / 0-)

    IMHO, the leading factors were the Iraq War and a disgust with Republican dirty tricks and unethical behavior.

    People went to jail over the 2002 phone jamming over the past year. Then new dirty tricks surfaced in the campaign -- robocalls designed to sound like they came from Hodes. Combine that with the contrast between Governor Lynch and former Governor Benson, who had his own history of unethical behavior, and the GOP couldn't find much support.

    I agree that NH didn't like the Schiavo intervention, but I think that played a much lesser role.

  •  Heath Shuler (4+ / 0-)

    So, thus far, the only Dem who took on a Repub seat and won without the whole scandal/write-in thing in Delay and Foley's seats was Heath Shuler (who probably is more philosophically in-tune with the old Dixiecrats than he is to Nancy Pelosi).

    Yes and no.  Certainly on social issues (abortion, gun control, etc.) Shuler is more of a "Dixiecrat" but on environmental issues and on economic issues he has a very discernible populist streak campaigning that the lack of heath care for many in the Us is a "moral issue" and the fact that 1 in 5 kids in the US live in poverty is an "embarrassment."  Hear what he has to say in this interview

    •  definitely (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sobermom

      Also good on labor issues, which can be tough in an era in which many have been convinced that "Free Trade" has to be good just because it contains the word "Free."

      One of the biggest reasons he won was the fisaco with Taylor's CAFTA vote.

      I still find it hard to support anti-choice candidates ... but, we have a majority now.

      Look, Lois - the two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant, and a fat white man who's afraid of change. -- Peter Griffin

      by Bayern Munich on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:12:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  CAFTA (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        VolvoDrivingLiberal

        One of the biggest reasons he won was the fisaco with Taylor's CAFTA vote.

        Actually, I was suprised that this wasn't a bigger issue and I don't even recall seeing one ad on the topic, although it was discussed at some campaign stops.

        •  the first time (0+ / 0-)

          I even heard of Shuler, he was hammering Taylor over the lost CAFTA vote.  And, an early article on Sabato's site that helped get the Shuler fund-raising going named this is the issue he could use to go after Taylor.  I think it made a difference.

          But you're right, it wasn't the biggest issue.  I think Taylor's ethical troubles and pork-dealing reputation caught up to him, more so than CAFTA.

          But either way, Shuler is a blue-collar labor supporter.

          Look, Lois - the two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant, and a fat white man who's afraid of change. -- Peter Griffin

          by Bayern Munich on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:39:48 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  A lot of these so-called Blue Dogs (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      majcmb1, BachFan

      are actually populists. Sen-elect Bob Casey is one. That's why he won so huge in PA, a lot of which is still bright red. Our state senate is still controlled by a huge GOP majority in spite of the pay increase scandel. The state house may tip our way by a single seat when the votes are finally counted. The last I read the repub was ahead by 19 votes.

  •  To contest every seat in every election (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    stephdray

    We HAVE to run so-called blue dogs, or dixiecrats, or DINOS, or whatever we want to call them. Sure, we could put Bella Abzug on the ballot in Appalachia, but that's not contesting the seat. That's just putting a name on the ballot.

    Gun control of any kind is a killer for Democrats. Being pro-choice all but guarantees a loss in many districts. If we want to actually "contest" the seats, our candidates must, when possible, neutralize the wedge social issues.

    Sorry, but when I start to hear ideas like "winning without the South," it makes me nervous. The 50-state strategy is the only way to go. As Dr. Dean says, it is a sign of respect when you go to a person and ask them to share their concerns with you, then ask them for their vote. Further, it doesn't preclude any other strategy.

    Further, I am fearing and anticipating the first moment we begin to eat our own for not being far enough left.

    Every single D that ran on Tuesday has helped us to seize power, and all deserve the same seat at the table and the same respect for their respective districts and states.

    "Make the pie higher."

    by SiD ORMaN on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:32:46 AM PDT

    •  What troubles me (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      metal prophet, marykk

      Is the idea that in the South the choice is either between a New York type liberal or a conservative Dixiecrat.

      During the 1970s and 1980s the South was represented by many folks who fell in between. Some have made the case that Heath Shuler is an example of this - someone who is overall rather moderate, and very economically liberal.

      That's what we need. We need to not reinforce the myth, the stereotype, the lie that our choices in the South are either running a Kucinich or a Zell Miller. There is a huge, liberal-friendly range in between and that needs to be at minimum where we aim.

      I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
      Neither is California High Speed Rail

      by eugene on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:39:04 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Hyperbole (0+ / 0-)

        Is what I was engaging in when I threw out Bella Abzug's name. Obviously someone with this ideology would not be nominated.

        My point is that socially conservative views, even if they are coupled with progressive views in terms of poverty, labor, and economics (as well as Democratic Party affiliation) are abhorred by many "more pure" progressives.

        We must tolerate and welcome Democrats (like Shuler) who fit this grouping. Even, dare I say it, if it means abandoning an issue like gun control at the federal level.

        "Make the pie higher."

        by SiD ORMaN on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:51:53 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  who clamors for gun control? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SCFrog

      and who is against 50 state strategy?  Not many here.

      But it helps to have urban/industrial core in the party.  Why extreme right of Democratic Party called themselves "Democratic Leadership Council".  Place in the party -- you are most welcome, put an entitlement to leadership?  No, no, no.

    •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

      How Red would Pataki or Bloomberg be in Utah?  They'd be radical lefties, I'm sure.  And in converse I don't think Hatch would do so well here in NYC.

  •  It's like the 1850s all over again (6+ / 0-)

    Coalitions being made between north and west and leaving an increasingly bellicose, lunatic, and irrelevant south out.

    I don't say that with joy, I know US history far too well to write off the south, and I know too many good liberal Southerners to abandon them. We need to fight for the South, but as this election makes clear, we do not need to orient our whole strategy around that either.

    We instead consolidate the north and west and then force the South to choose - isolation or engagement. The South can abandon its imperialist, fundamentalist, oppressive and hateful ways (and I know not all the South is like that, but bear with me here) or sit and stew in its own powerlessness.

    As this election showed, the border states are key, just like they were in the 1860s during the Civil War. We won VA, MO, and a few seats in KY and IN. TN, another key border state, might be doable next time out.

    I'm not part of a redneck agenda - Green Day
    Neither is California High Speed Rail

    by eugene on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:36:22 AM PDT

  •  direction, yes, there -- no (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    eugene

    First, Midwest voters, and in a major part of Pennsylvania, are "socially conservative", although not in the Southern way.  This year "Reagan Democrats", notably blue collar Catholics, voted Democreatic -- the biggest swing.

    In certain issues there will be conservative majority in the House, and there are several Democratic Senators that should be moderate Republicans -- except that correctly they do not want belong to an extinct breed, one can mention both Nelsons, Landrieu, Salazar, Feinstein, Kohl, and few other (do not forget Lieberman).

    •  Senate (0+ / 0-)

      that's largely accurate - look at what happened to Chafee.  There's no place for a moderate, reasonable voice in the current incarnation of the Republican party.  Will that change?  Maybe, but I can't see any of the ones you mentioned switching - as you say, I think they wouldn't like their chances, and realize Democrats are less demanding as far as ideology.

      One nit: I wouldn't count Feinstein in with the rest of them, and even Bil Nelson is more moderate than conservative.  Ben Nelson, Landrieu, and Salazar are exactly as you described, and I'd almost throw Tim Johnson of SD in with them, and even Reid if he wasn't Leader.

      Look, Lois - the two symbols of the Republican party: an elephant, and a fat white man who's afraid of change. -- Peter Griffin

      by Bayern Munich on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:47:47 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  We need a reality test (0+ / 0-)

    We need to do some things differently.  Our government is of, for and by the people.  If a lot of our agenda is hated by the people maybe we need to regroup. If we have to run people who are like republicans to win, maybe we need to do a little changing.

    In 2000 and 2004, if you noticed, the Republicans didn’t say ahead of time, or at least it wasn’t shown on TV,  that they would start wars, run up an obscene deficit and ruin Medicare.  Bush said he would fix Social Security.  Later, many learned he wanted to dismantle it.

    The Republicans got elected because they didn’t do a lot of "in your face" and "we are going to do this whether most of the people want it or not" issues.


    Maybe there is a way, that those who are adamant about single issues that cost a lot of votes, like gun control, partial birth abortion and gay marriage could form a coalition. They could concentrate on making their stands on these three issues acceptable to the voters without it being connected to Democrats.  Like use a name such as the Coalition of Safety etc. They could hire writers and research ways to present their stands on those hot issues.  

    Democrats have always helped the underdog.  We have made this country a lot better place to live the way it is now.  Democrats are better and more compassionate people than most of the republican leaders.

    I have read a long time ago that we would get 30% more votes, if we dropped one issue. Maybe some of these issues are too early for their time.

    Personally, I am against gun control.  With all these right wing nuts running around you never know when you may have to defend yourself.

    If the people want their guns, why not?

    (Bush and Cheney were kind of "in your face" this time and it probably hurt their party.)

    •  Huh? (0+ / 0-)

      Thanks for demonstrating some stereotypical thinking. As long as the debate on, for example, gun control, is done in sound bytes, those on the left will find themselves answering questions like, "So, would you prefer to have a black ex-convict break into your home, tie you up, and rape your wife and daughter before your eyes? Or would you rather oppose gun control?" No one in the Democratic Party is advocating banning gun ownership. The country is so diverse that we must find ways to speak both to the rancher in Wyoming and the mother in Detroit about keeping them safe from violence.

      You can do the Dems a great service, Relentless, by looking into the ways that gun registration and owner licensing work well to curtail gun violence in just about every industrialised country in the world. Help us out here. Do some research, and get on our side.

      Thanks!

      If your ballot isn't paper, it ain't a ballot.

      by brooklyn greenish on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 10:37:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I see up close and personal (0+ / 0-)

        people who won't vote for Democrats because they think we will take their guns.  I know these people. I don't have to do research, I know that registration would help control crime.

        You do research and call a few rural town homes and ask to speak to the man of the house. Ask what they think of Democrats. Ask what they think of guns.

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