Daily Kos

That pesky "I" word that just won't die.

Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:42:04 PM PDT

Our party leadership has declared Impeachment to be "off the table."  So, maybe we should close ranks and comply with the I-word lockdown... at least for now.  Although it's against my nature, I might be willing to wear a muzzle temporarily for the good of the party, but I draw the line at blinders.  So, here's what I'm reading on the subject right now...
A new An old Zogby Poll (released five days before election day, but November, 1995, which I hadn't seen until now [and was way older than I thought...but if the numbers were high then...]) showing a majority of Americans favoring the proposition: "If President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should consider holding him accountable through impeachment."  By comparison, only 36% favored impeachment hearings against Clinton at the time they were initiated!

Impeachment Support is Closely Related to Belief that Bush Lied about Iraq

The Zogby and Ipsos polls asked about support for impeachment if Bush lied about the reasons for war, rather than asking simply about support for impeachment. Pollsters predict that asking simply about impeachment without any context would produce a large number of "I don't know" responses. However, this may understate those who support Bush's impeachment for other reasons, such as his actions before and immediately after Hurricane Katrina, his negligence prior to 9-11, his use of torture, and the CIA outing scandal.

And while the MSM has had an even more comprehensive gag rule on the subject than our party is now hoping to impose, a few editorialists are becoming less willing to keep their counsel on the matter.  Today's column by Larry Spohn, deputy editorial page editor of the Albuquerque Tribune could not be more direct in his piece entitled "It's time to impeach," which succinctly addresses the revenge argument in his closing sentences:

Impeachment is not a partisan cheap shot. It's not vengeance. It's not payback for Clinton. It's not about hating Bush.

It's about Americans holding their president and vice president fully accountable for willfully breaking the law, violating the Constitution and deceiving the American people - high crimes and misdemeanors.

I am inclined to consider the current Democratic leadership buzzword of "oversight" to be somewhat hollow without "accountability," but again, I'm supposed to be toeing a line here, so I'll leave it at that... for now.

We are not likely to convince Elizabeth Holtzman, former New York Congresswoman (who sat on the House Judiciary Committee during the impeachment of Richard Nixon), and co-author with Cynthia Cooper of     The Impeachment of George W. Bush: A Practical Guide for Concerned Citzens, to embrace our official timidity... er... reticence, as evidenced by the [edited] snippet below from her guest column in today's San Francisco Chronicle:

Even if impeachment is "off the table," according to Democratic leaders such as Nancy Pelosi [...] it is on Americans' table. Leaving aside partisan "gotcha" tactics, such as the impeachment of President Bill Clinton, which fail because they lack public support or constitutional basis, Congress has been historically reluctant to undertake impeachment, including during Watergate. But it has done so when public sentiment reaches a boiling point and demands holding a president accountable, as it did in 1973 after President Richard Nixon fired special prosecutor Archibald Cox.

Today we may be closer to reaching that boiling point again than some may think. [Emphasis Mine]

I was also impressed (and despite my well-deserved credentials as a cynic, moved) by "Human rights denial deserves impeachment" by Peter Phillips published in today's Topeka Capital Journal.  Yes, you read that right, not liberal bastion New York City, nor Babylon by the Bay S.F., but click-your-heels three times and repeat after me "There's no place like home" Topeka, Kansas!!!  Don't take my word for it, click the link and check it out for yourself.

So, there's a partial round-up of stuff, mostly from the stodgy MSM, on the congressional action that dare not speak its name.  I have to admit that while I am certainly glad that the "I" word was not included in Nancy Pelosi's First Hundred Hours agenda, I think "off the table" was an unfortunate choice of phrase, unneccesarily limiting our options.  Call me a mugwump... or worse.  I'm ready.

Tags: George W. Bush, Impeachment, Nancy Pelosi, Off The Table, Polls, First Hundred Hours, Zogby, Oversight (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 20 comments

  •  Tips, Brick-bats, or even death threats... (8+ / 0-)

    it's fine.  I went through "duck and cover" drills as a kid.

    Healthcare NOT Warfare! (Petition)

    by jgilhousen on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:40:37 PM PDT

  •  I think (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    reflectionsv37, gpm, UneasyOne

    the only reason impeachment is off the table at this point is because unlike the parlor trick it was used for with Clinton our guys want to get it right.

    They won't impeach him until the tipping point has been reached in the investigations an hearings. I almost see the word "oversight" to mean investigations, possible prosecutions, and in general holding people accountable.

    Sarcasm: It beats killing people...

    by Dreggas on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:51:47 PM PDT

    •  "for now" (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Annalize5, UneasyOne

      You are the first person I have heard use the phrase "for now" in direct connection to "off the table."  The statements by Pelosi and Conyers were unequivocal.  As for "doing it right," the way to start is definitely not to set yourself for charges of going back on an "off the table" pledge.

      Healthcare NOT Warfare! (Petition)

      by jgilhousen on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:00:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agreed (0+ / 0-)

        however I believe it will be off the table for now, I don't think it will be off permanently. Now there are only two years left to the presidency and investigations take time, if it comes down to it and impeachment is not going to happen until say October of 08 then I think the least that should happen is criminal charges once out of office.

        Sarcasm: It beats killing people...

        by Dreggas on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:36:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, proceed with caution (0+ / 0-)

      Make the first priority to pass good, popular legislation (minimum wage, rollback of the upper income tax cuts coupled with a substantial [500%?] increase in the standard deduction and loophole closing for the megacorps, new voting rights act...paper trail,etc. I've got more).  Dare the rethugs to filibuster and Bush to veto.  Meanwhile, proceed with investigations and if impeachment comes, make it "more in sorrow than anger".  Then win in '08!

      •  Investigations and tell-all books... (0+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        UneasyOne

        can build the case.  Remember that Cheney would have to go first, since it would be too dangerous for the country to have him as President--even if his unpopularity would be a political advantage.  

        Speaker-elect (sounds good) Pelosi and other leaders may have concluded that there isn't enough time to impeach both of them in sequence. Carrying impeachments into 2008 would likely just be a distraction to winning the election.

        We are ALWAYS underdogs. The other side has limitless funds, skulduggery, domination of the media and the legal system, and an electoral college advantage.

        by Bronx59 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:23:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  A little presumptious, don't we think? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    horsewithnoname, Annalize5, UneasyOne

    Taking impeachment off the table already???? Oh no!!!! But what if Bush does something really awful, like screw an intern????

    "You can't at once argue that you're the master of a broken system in Washington and offer yourself as the person to change it." - Barack Obama

    by GirlZero on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 01:56:29 PM PDT

  •  Your link to Zogby (0+ / 0-)

    Your link to Zogby refers to a 2005 poll.
    This is the 2006 poll:

    Zogby Poll Impeachment 2006

    January 2006 Poll Shows Majority of Americans Support Impeaching Bush

    (PRWEB) January 20, 2006 -- By a margin of 52 % to 43 %, Americans want Congress to consider impeaching President Bush if he wiretapped American citizens without a judge's approval, according to a new poll commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, a grassroots coalition that supports a Congressional investigation of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq in 2003.

    The poll was conducted by Zogby International, the highly-regarded non-partisan polling company. The poll interviewed 1,216 U.S. adults from January 9-12.

    More recent results Ipsos Poll:

    Impeachment Polls 2006

    Among American adults, 50% agreed and 44% disagreed with the statement:
    "If President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should consider holding him accountable by impeaching him."
    Many felt strongly: 39% strongly agreed, while 30% strongly disagreed.
    Among Democrats 72% agreed, 59% strongly agreed, 23% disagreed, and 11% strongly disagreed.
    Oct. 6-9, Ipsos Public Affairs poll, commissioned by AfterDowningStreet.org, +/- 3.1% margin of error.

    "It's entertainment until somebody is attacked," Spocko said.

    by suskind on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:20:30 PM PDT

  •  All Polls (0+ / 0-)

    Impeachment Polling Up to Present

    In your correction now you have the Zogby Poll at 1995..... it's 2005

    "It's entertainment until somebody is attacked," Spocko said.

    by suskind on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 02:27:17 PM PDT

  •  A delicate balance. (0+ / 0-)

    If EVER impeachment of a President should be on the table, it is now.  But there is a very good chance that any impeachment proceedings will be viewed by many as tit-for-tat.

    The Zogby poll (off-topic: Didn't I read recently that Zogby's methodology is suspect?  Anyhow ...) may indicate that a lot of Americans are ready for it, but the MSM, looking for a soap opera to sell to the public, will portray impeachment of Bush as revenge for impeachment of Clinton--nothing more than petty politics.

    There is a lot of groundwork to be laid before we can get to that point.  We've just gotten done preventing a fascist takeover of the government; it will be a while before anybody is able to act normally or speak truthfully.

    ----------------
    The trouble with the world is that the stupid are always cocksure and the intelligent are always filled with doubt. -- Bertrand Russell

    by gpm on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 03:15:00 PM PDT

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