Daily Kos

TN-Sen: The real REAL Reason Harold Ford Lost

Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:02:24 PM PDT

I was visiting kos tonight and saw a diary proclaiming to announce the real reason Harold Ford Lost.  Wondering if the diary would have some insight, what I found was the usual liberal stomping on Ford, of course without any evidence to actually back it up.

If one wants to see the real reason why he list, one must first look to the exit polls.  It won't tell you what the reason was (though it may put one on the right track to find it out), but it will definitely tell you what it wasn't.

The primary claim in the diary in question is that "Ford lost his left flank." In other words, Ford was so offensive to the liberal population in Tennessee (which, by the way, numbers only around 15 to 20% (Survey USA suggests it's more like 10 to 15%) of the population in the state) that they stayed home.  However, I don't think that happened.

First, let's look at the breakdown in the exit poll by ideology:

Liberals (14%)
Moderates (40%)
Conservative (45%)

This isn't an unreasonable ideological breakdown of the state's population.  To put another hammer in the coffin of the argument, those liberals that did vote did overwhelmingly - 89% - for Ford.  In fact, liberals held to Ford better than conservatives held to Corker (only 80%).

The difference here is that Ford only picked up 64% of moderates, and with conservatives making up 45% and liberals only making 14%, Corker started out with a 38% to 21% lead once moderates started to be counted. Ford needed around 73% of the moderate vote to win and he just couldn't get there.

The next number to look at is the party breakdown:

Democrats (34%)
Independents (28%)
Republicans (38%)

This also does not look like an unreasonable breakdown for the state.  The two candidates did about equally well within their parties: Ford won Democrats 93% to 6% while Corker won Republicans 94% to 5%, showing an extreme level of party loyalty in this race.

The problem here is that those labeled as Independents barely sided with Ford - 50% to 49%.  This seems to indicate that it's not the left Ford lost, but the fact that he couldn't convince enough independent moderates to vote for him.

The reasons for this aren't exactly clear.

Part of it is that voters in Tennessee gave Bush a 48% approval rating, and those who approved of Bush were more likely to vote for Corker than those disapproving Bush were to vote for Ford.  They key statistic here is that Corker won those who "somewhat approved" of Bush by a margin of 85% to 12%, yet Ford only won those who "somewhat disapproved" of Bush 64% to 33%.

This suggests that Ford's attempts to tie Corker to Bush, while succeeding for those who approve of Bush's job, and thus voted for Corker, didn't work so well with those people who opposed Bush, especially those who only opposed him half-heartedly.

The War in Iraq was rated "extremely" or "very important" by 70% of voters, yet only those who believed it was "extremely" important turned to Ford, suggesting that moderates who thought the war was important (but not everything) were not convinced that electing Corker would result in the war continuing as it is.

Two, more odd, stats.  Those who rated illegal immigration as important voted for Corker.  In fact, the more someone cared about the issue, the more likely they were to vote for Corker, despite the fact that Corker was citied for having hired illegal immigrants and not having, that I can recall, any actual plan on stopping illegal immigration.

Also, Corker won the vote for voters who thought corruption was extremeley, very, or even somewhat important.  Ford only won with those who thought corruption was not at all important.  This despite the fact that Corker had numerous scandals.  This suggests that, even though Corker never really got into specifics about Ford's family, the attack against the "Ford political machine" appeared to work.

Also in an interesting note, those who decided over the weekend before the election broke heavily for Corker - 59% to 41%, yet a majority of those who decided on election day chose Ford.

Also, whatever attacks Ford made on Corker, they appeared to turn off voters more than Corker's attacks on Ford.  For those who believed that both candidates attacked each other unfairly, Corker won 58% to 40%

So what does this tell us? Well, nothing difinitive, other than it seems that it was those in the middle, and not those on the left, who Ford couldn't convince to vote for him.

Ford's race against Corker also had additional issues that were different from the other races against republicans.

First, the race was an open seat, so while people like Talent, Dewine, Allen, Burns, and Chafee could be tied to Bush due to their voting records in the Senate, Corker has no such voting record, and thus could better insulate himself against attacks of being a rubber stamp.

Second, the state itself is rather conservative, with Montana probably being the only other state with a competitive senate seat that is more conservative, so Ford had to start with a considerable deficit.

Third, Corker didn't run the traditional Republican campaign.  In the sense, he played the DLC card, except as Republican.

Statewide races in Tennessee are generally a battle between Democrats as moderates or moderate-conservatives and Republicans as various shades of conservatives, but typically those harder to the right.

Ford fit in well with the typical moderate and conservative/moderate role that democrats have to play to win statewide office in the state.  However, Corker did not run a hard right campaign.  In fact, he ran a rather "soft" conservative or even moderate-conservative campaign.  This "blurred" the difference between the two candidates, with Corker essentially taking up the same space as traditional democratic candidates take up in the state.

With people in the state typically voting default Republican, Ford had two ways to seperate himself.  The first option was move left, which would have resulted in Corker routing Ford.  The other option was move to the right of Corker and essentially run as the conservative candidate in the race.  Ford didn't really do either and thus wasn't successfully able to show voters why he was different from Corker.

I believe that if Corker was an incumbent, or if someone like Van Hilleary, who would have run a more clearly conservative campaign - and had a congressional voting record - had been nominated, it is quite possible Ford would have won this race.

However, Ford will face a similar problem if he chooses to run against Alexander in 2008.  First, Bush will no longer be as effective a boogeyman, given that he'll be leaving office in only a few months after the election.  Second, Alexander is also a "soft" to moderate conservative along the same vein as Corker, meaning that there is less room for a democratic candidate to seperate himself without alienating large chunks of the votes they would need to win.

Alexander is extremely popular in East Tennessee, though Ford lost East Tennessee by 20% and still nearly won, showing that a good showing in East Tennessee may, in fact, not be necessary for a democrat to win statewide.

There are still two years between now and 2008, and perhaps Ford has learned from his experience and can challenge for the seat again in 2008.

Update [2006-11-10 22:8:1 by FleetAdmiralJ]: I should add that the gay marriage ban in Tennessee received a horrendously low 19% "no" vote, showing that even the majority of Ford voters voted for the ban.

Tags: TN-Sen, Harold Ford, Bob Corker, 2006 Elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 103 comments

    •  Looks to me as though you're wrong here (0+ / 0-)

      Compare the Ford-Corker race to the TN-Gov race:

      Governor   Full Governor Next
      RACE STATUS CANDIDATE VOTE VOTE % PRECINCTS LOCAL EXIT POLLS
      Tennessee Governor
      Updated: 10:48 a.m. ET

      Democratic Bredesen
      (Incumbent)
      1,244,037 69% 99% of precincts reporting votes by county voter survey results

      Republican Bryson
      539,857 30%

      Independent Whitaker
      11,343 1%

      Independent Banks
      7,511 0%

      Independent Smith
      4,073 0%

      Independent Switzer
      2,711 0%

      Independent Gatchell
      2,446 0%
      Full TN
      Independent Leinoff
      2,111 0%

      Slightly more liberals bothered to vote in this race, and slightly more of those who did cast their vote for Bredesen then for Ford. Would it have made a difference? Bredesen received 1,244,037 votes. If 15% of those were cast by liberals, that's 186605.55 votes. Ford, on the other hand, got 878,373 votes, and according to the exit polls, 122972.22 of those were cast by liberals. In other words, Bredesen got 63,633 more liberal votes than Ford - and Ford lost by only 50,034 votes. So, yes, looks like The Crusader is spot on.

      Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

      by brainwave on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:34:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sorry, here's the exit poll breakdown by ideology (0+ / 0-)

        for the TN-Gov race:

        VOTE BY IDEOLOGY
        TOTAL Bredesen Bryson
        Liberal (15%) 92% 7%
        Moderate (41%) 81% 18%
        Conservative (44%) 50% 48%

        See what I mean?

        Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

        by brainwave on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:37:00 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  well, a few points. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        brainwave, tabbycat in tenn

        Lets see, approximately 270,000 liberals voted in the governors race while about 260,000 liberals voted in the Senate race (so overall numbers don't look all the much different)

        Bredesen got 92% of liberals, so thats 248,400.  Ford got 89% of liberals, which is 231,400.  Thus, by my calculations, no, it didn't make a difference.

        Even if every single one of the 270,000 liberals voted for Ford, it wouldn't have made a difference.

        Even if your calculations are correct (which they don't appear to be), a margin of 13,000 votes is extremely tight, especially after considering rounding errors in the percentages reported (it could very well be 14.5% vs. 14.4% for all we know), one could hardly blame Ford for not bringing the left out because, supposedly, Bredesen got more liberals which, had they voted for Ford, made a margin of 13,000 votes.

        One must also consider the fact that there are well over 60,000 votes Ford could have picked up from the center that he didn't

        •  and here is the math (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          brainwave, tabbycat in tenn

          all voters in the governor's race: 1,814,089. x 15% = 272,113 total liberal voters in the governor's race (assuming it's exactly 15%).  Bredesen got 92% of those so 272,113 x 92% = 250,344, again assuming it's exactly 92%.

          The number of liberals voting could, realisticly, range from about 280,000 to 263,000.  The number of liberal votes Bredesen got could range from about 259,000 to 241,000

          all voters in senate race: 1,830,472 x 14% = 256,266 total liberal voters in the governor's race (again, assuming exactly 14%).  Ford got 89% of those, so its 256,266 x 89% = 228,077

          The number of liberals voting in the Senate race could range from 264,000 to 247,000.  The number of liberal voters Ford got could range from 236,000 to 219,000.

          So even using the absolute maximum range for Bredesen minus the absolute minium range for Ford, Ford could have gained about 40,000 - not enough to make up the margin.

          Also note that if between 263,000 and 264,000 total liberals voted in each race, both the 14% figure in the Senate race and the 15% figure in the Governor's race would be correct by my calculations.

        •  Okay, (0+ / 0-)

          I agree that yours is a more sensible way to look at the numbers. But I'm still getting a difference of 266,755 liberal votes for Bredesen vs. 228,076 for Ford (and yes, giving rounding error, and the fact that the numbers for either race don't represent 100% of the precincts, these figures are quite fictitious). That's not quite enough to change the outcome of the election, but it's most of the way. So it still looks to me as though The Crusader may have point - that had the liberal vote shown up for Ford the way it did or Bredesen, he would be the next Senator from TN now.

          Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

          by brainwave on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:15:29 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  the next question is (0+ / 0-)

            ok, what would Ford had to have done to pick up those 40,000 or so votes? And would that change have cost him even more votes than that from the center and right?

            •  remember (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              tabbycat in tenn

              Ford did pick up 19% of the conservative vote.  Does moving to the left enough to pick up 3% of 1% of the liberal vote cost him more than that in the conservative vote? I would lean towards saying yet it does if the liberals which supposedly didn't vote for him are that picky

            •  What did Bredesen do to get those votes? (0+ / 0-)

              I understand The Crusader as saying all Ford would had to do is slap progressives in the face one or two fewer times. I really can't imagine that that would have cost him moderate votes. Bredesen got more liberal votes than Ford, while at the same time actually managing to secure a higher share of the conservative vote than even his republican opponent. Sure, Bredesen is much more popular than Ford. But Ford tried to boost his moderate and conservative credentials, and as a result he only managed to depress the liberal vote.

              Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

              by brainwave on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:39:28 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  No, wait, the number is lower for Bredesen (0+ / 0-)

              I don't know what the source of the error is, but it's really only around 250,300 liberal votes for Bredesen, which means over 20,000 more than Ford got, not nearly enough to change the outcome.

              Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

              by brainwave on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:26:40 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

  •  Alot of people here seemed to think (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Positronicus

    that Kurita would have made a better candidate than Ford. Would that not still be true against Alexander (or Corker in 6 years)?

    Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

    by tigercourse on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:03:56 PM PDT

    •  I actualy think Kurita would do the state better (8+ / 0-)

      by running against Blackburn in TN-07.  Kurita is a state senator (or was - did she decide to run for re-election to that post after she dropped out?), but has very little stature outside of the Clarksville area.  She would have to spend large portions of her time just getting her name out there.  Also, Bryson should have shown what happens when someone like a state senator takes on an established big name and popular candidate (which Alexander would be in 2008), and that is get stomped on.

      Second, she was hardly as progressive and those who were pushing her candidacy made her out to be.  She was probably just as conservive, if not more conservative, than Ford was, especially on social issues (there were no statements about abortion on her webpage, and she actually pushed allowing "choose life" license plates.  Oh, and she bragged about her father working for George H. W. Bush in Texas).

    •  She doesn't have the money connections (0+ / 0-)

      to make it much of a fight.

      The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

      by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:19:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unless Alexander really screws up in the (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        tabbycat in tenn

        next 2 years, I doubt anyone has the power to make it a fight. If Ford couldn't take the open seat, I think it will be really hard to knock off an incumbent.

        Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

        by tigercourse on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:23:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It is more likely that Alexander will retire (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Tenn Wisc Dem

          than he will "screw up."  You don't start in the Nixon administration and get this far without learning a few things.

          The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

          by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:28:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  how likely is it (0+ / 0-)

            that he would retire? he is only in his first term

            •  That's what I thought (0+ / 0-)

              my source is not what you would call airtight, but I can't dispute it either.

              The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

              by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:36:07 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  good sign, but (0+ / 0-)

                it's not like the republican bench in tennessee has improved since 1992

                •  errr 2002 (0+ / 0-)

                  well, it may not have improved much since 1992 either. for how conservative the state is, there sure aren't that many high powered republican politicans in the state. Once Alexander is gone, they will be in trouble.

                  Democrats have Bredesen, Ford, mayor Purcell, as well as a couple other dem congressmen who could make noise if they chose to, not to mention Tim McGraw if he runs for governor.

                  •  Who knows, maybe the Pilot Oil (0+ / 0-)

                    money will be enough for the Haslams.  Didn't one of them run Corker's campaign?

                    Hell, we still have Bryant and Hilleary, they the best!!!!!!!!

                    The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

                    by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:48:48 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  heh (0+ / 0-)

                      yeah...Hilleary and Bryant....two republicans who apparently couldn't win statewide, even if their lives depended on it.  I guess they still have Zack, Wamp, Duncan, and now Davis lol.

                      •  though (0+ / 0-)

                        David Davis running for Senate would probably be practically handing the state to the democrats on a silver platter if he's as right wing as I've heard he is.

                        •  I was serious about the Haslams. (0+ / 0-)

                          Bill is mayor of Knoxville.

                          Zach Wamp didn't run in 2002 because of money.  I don't think that has changed.

                          Last time I spoke with Jimmy Jr he wasn't interested in the Senate, but that could have changed.  Though he hasn't mentioned it to either of my State Reps friends if he has changed his mind.

                          The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

                          by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:07:15 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                      •  Well... (0+ / 0-)

                        (Disclaimer: I have a friend who worked for Bryant.)  Had either Bryant or Hilleary withdrawn from the primary, it was generally viewed that the vast majority of their support would go to the other guy rather than to Corker, so in a straight-up Bryant-Corker or Hilleary-Corker primary, Corker would likely lose.  Either would have resulted in a considerably different general campaign.  (I think Ford would have been beaten Hilleary and lost to Bryant.)

                •  Perhaps Lamar could be encouraged..... (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  tabbycat in tenn

                  ...to not run, with an early, thorough public examination of his political career. He is, after all, a wealthy, lifetime politician who never had a real job. Politics made him rich.

                  Let him know that he will have to answer some tough questions and explain how he acquired all this wealth if he runs, then maybe he won't be inclined to do so.

                  Isn't it discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit? (Noel Coward)

                  by Mid10Dem on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:45:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  I don't think he'll retire (0+ / 0-)

                He's about to be offered the minority whip of the Senate (another odd move, but for good reason).
                The GOP knows that they can't afford to defend another open seat in TN.  They spent more money in TN than in any other state, and TN is a red state.  They are going to give Lamar anything he wants to make sure he doesn't retire.
                He is 68 years old.  He has said he wasn't going to run again.  He has also said that the past four years have been energizing for him, leading people to believe that he will seek another term.  He's also been mentioned as a Presidential candidate...he's run for that before, too.
                I think it all depends on how rough these next two years are going to be for him.  He's used to being in the majority, and he's used to not having to do much.  He's in for a change.

                Are you smart, liberal, and maybe a little cranky? Join us at the OND.

                by Sidof79 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 07:53:08 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

          •  Exactly, The biggest hope in certain (0+ / 0-)

            seats (like Warner's) is that the Republican will be tired of being in the minority, and bow out.

            Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

            by tigercourse on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:30:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I think Bredesen might be the only one (0+ / 0-)

          who could really take a shot.  But then what does Ford do?  People seem to think that Tim McGraw will run for governor in 2008, and if he does, I doubt Ford would get in his way.

    •  Kurita (0+ / 0-)

      a liberal unknown State Senator and nurse would have lost 60-40 at best.

      Seize Every day, giving no thought for tommorrow-Horace

      by ArkDem14 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:17:30 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I believe Harold Ford... (5+ / 0-)

    was just the wrong candidate. If you are going to run a race against a person running as a moderate you need to show the voters a difference. Ford is a moderate K Street friendly Democrat, and a social conservative, what is the difference between him and Corker? The reason we folks supported Ford was because he could swing the balance of power in the Senate, other then that I like nothing about the guy.

    If we ran an economic populist who was a social moderate, like a Webb, or Tester, we could have shown the voters in Tennessee a difference, and given them a real choice.  

    I prefer peace Wouldn't have to have one worldly possession But essentially I'm an animal So just what do I do with all the aggression?

    by jbou on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:04:24 PM PDT

    •  well, that ended up being the problem (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Harkov311

      however, there is a bigger problem in how to counter it.  Ford ran like he did because, as I said, most republicans run to the right, and thus someone like Ford would normally be in a good position.

      However, how do you seperate yourself? If you run to the left, you run any conservatives you might pick up and a large share of moderates.  If you run to the right, you probably lose more liberals than you gain conservative republicans switching their vote.  So what do you do?  A moderate conservative is probably the hardest type of republican to beat in Tennessee exactly for the reason that there is nowhere for the democrat to run.

    •  Agreed (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      liberal atheist

      There is plenty of room for differences of opinions in our party, but you have to sell the party along with yourself.  Why bother voting for someone who acts like a Republican and takes their positions when an actual Republican is in the race?

      Sell some new ideas that the Republicans aren't offering then offer the bonus that you have a lot of conservative positions as well.  All I heard from Ford was the usual guns and god talking points, that does nothing towards rebuilding the Democratic party in TN.

    •  There was a huge, clear choice (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      illinifan17

      Ford was considered too liberal in East TN.  His congressional voting score from ADA is between 60 and 85.  Over/under for Corker? maybe, maybe 30.

      The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

      by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:17:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  there was a significant difference for (0+ / 0-)

        those on the wings, but apparently those in the middle saw less of a difference.

        •  Hmm (0+ / 0-)

          Ford won "moderates" by a healthy margin (63 v 35, nearly 2:1).  That would seem to indicate the middle saw a large difference also.

          Did you notice the age breakdown?  Old and young for Ford, working ages for Corker.  Not sure what it means, but it was very interesting.

          The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

          by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:25:02 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  moderates, yes, independents no (0+ / 0-)

            meaning that democratic moderates he won pretty good.  independent moderates not so much.  If you are partisan, it didn't seem to matter what your ideological leanings were.  However, if you were independent, the voters split more between the two candidates.

      •  Right, the RNC ads constantly attacked (0+ / 0-)

        Ford for being too liberal.  If the earlier diary, not this one, was right, then those ads should have been helping Ford.

        The clear choice was talent.  Ford would be a star in the Senate, a true national figure.  Corker will be an empty suit.  Honestly, will we ever hear anything about him in Washington.  He will occasionally make it onto the local news when he comes back to Tennessee for a visit.

        So I see only tatters of clearness through a pervading obscurity - Annie Dillard -6.88, -5.33

        by illinifan17 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:49:27 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  ANOTHER excellent Ford diary (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Positronicus

    I also like the one you're responding to.

    I will point out that, if liberals comprise fifteen to twenty percent of the electorate but only fourteen percent of the actual voters on election day that does tend to support the other diarist's contention that if Ford had had a better turnout among liberals he might have won.

    John McCain, you are _not_ my friend.

    by LarryInNYC on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:05:39 PM PDT

    •  well, that's just guessing (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      tabbycat in tenn, Positronicus

      20% is too high I know.  It would be closer to 15% but I'm not sure if its quite as low as 15%.

      Anyway, looking at the ideological breakdown in the Survey USA polls, they were thus:

      11/6 - 13%
      10/25 - 11%
      10/10 - 11%
      9/12 - 12%

      so in fact, I appear to be overestimating, by about 5%, the liberal share of the state in my diary based on those

  •  Nice analysis (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tabbycat in tenn
    Good to see some actual numbers in there, unlike the other diary.  I guess people are taking out their anger about Carville's statements on Harold Ford and that's unfortunate.
  •  I think Nancy Pelosi should have run in TN (4+ / 1-)

    Well, ok, not Nancy Pelosi, but someone just like Nancy Pelosi, except atheist and an abortionist.  Except they'd have to be gay too.  And against allowing citizens to own guns at all.

    Yes, next time we'll run a gay (happily married to his partner) atheist abortionist (specializing in 3rd term abortions) pro-gun control version of Nancy Pelosi and we'll win TN.  That way TN voters will get a REAL choice between the 2 candidates.

    Fucking morons.  If we get as good a candidate as Harold Ford again in 2008, we should thank our lucky stars.  If Moulitsas shits all over that one too then we'll have to see what happens from there.  But I don't think it will be pretty for Moulitsas.

  •  Exit polls don't make the REAL reason less true (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    liberal atheist

    Exit poll info doesn't change the underlying argument of the previous diary:

    Liberals stayed home because Ford was not a compelling candidate.

    You can't poll 'em if they don't come and vote.

    BTW, language like " usual liberal stomping on Ford" doesn't help your case either.

  •  Thanks Admiral, (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tabbycat in tenn, ladylib

    people made up their minds a long time ago.  Facts be damned.

    The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

    by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:29:08 PM PDT

  •  I don't know why we can't just be honest and say (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    realitybased, Harkov311, RoxieInTexas

    the real real real reason Harold Ford Jr. lost was because he was (and still is) black. It was noted by a particularly astute pundit that the real reason Ford didn't make a big fuss about the racist overtones of the "call me" ad is because a lot of folks in E. Tennessee didn't actually know Ford was black until Corker was accused of racism toward him (Ford is light skinned with light eyes). So, in this reasoning -- believable to me -- Ford's numbers started dropping after the ad, not because it was nasty and suggestive of miscegenation, but because THE REACTION to the ad let voters who were unfamiliar with Ford know he was black, and that moved enough of them away. This also explains why Ford virtually didn't respond at all to the ad other than to call it "smutty", and why he was (reportedly) trying to shut national dems up about the 'racist' component.  

    Sadly, the main point is right here: Ford knew Tennessee, and knew how to best play his strengths, and one of them was not drawing attention to his race. That is the real tragedy here; that a black man in modern America feels the necessity to avoid being fully himself for fear of not getting a job he's otherwise qualified for...I feel very uncomfortable with the thought that Harold Ford lives in a world where he sees avoidance of his heritage as a campaign plus....I'm not sure which is worse, that such an environment exists or that he didn't challenge it.

    --------
    Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

    by PBJ Diddy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:30:18 PM PDT

    •  I find that argument unconvincing (3+ / 0-)

      someone who didn't know Harold Ford was black would either have to be stupid or living in a cave.  Also, I think the very fact that Ford got within 3% is evidence enough that race played a minimal factor.

      •  Well, (0+ / 0-)

        not to protract this argument, which I believe to be credible, but think how stupid the average American is, and then realize that half the public is less intelligent than that...I did not know Ford was black until a few years ago, he doesn't particularly look it, and I only became aware when Matthews or somebody mentioned it, remember, we're only talking about a small slice of the electorate, and lots of people don't watch the news or read the papers, they would only have seen the ads from the campaigns, none of which overtly mentioned Ford's race. Why else would the RNC do the "OJ" treatment on their flyers if everyone already knew?

        Remember, you are coming from the perspective of a DKosser who is by definition well-informed...not the normal voter profile at all, I personally know several people who didn't vote for Gore in 2000 because "I just don't like him" -- not even a hint of what the issues were, let alone where he stood on them -- literally, just the sound of his voice wasn't "sincere" enough...that whole "who'd you rather have a beer with" bullshit. There are a lot of those types around, and I don't see any indication that Tennessee's exurban counties are immune to the massive voter ignorance that seems to pervade the rest of the country.

        --------
        Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

        by PBJ Diddy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:50:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I think he got within 3% DESPITE being Black (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        diplomatic

        You'll have a hard time convincing me that being African-American didn't hurt him.

        By all accounts, Ford ran a terrific campaign, and in a Democratic year. I have a hard time believing he would not have won if he were White (his voting record certainly doesn't indicate his race!).

        "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

        by Jim in Chicago on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:55:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I dont think (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          tabbycat in tenn

          running in an open seat against someone who couldn't easily be tied to Bush other than being in the same party can be dismissed, however.  And that is a key difference between this race and all the other ones Dems pickedup

          •  Open seats are usually considered BETTER opportun (0+ / 0-)

            ities.

            Hence all the money Rahm poured into relatively conservative IL-6, while ignoring IL-10 (which went 53-47 for Kerry) almost until the end.

            "We are the ones we have been waiting for" --Barack Obama reminding us we have to hold him accountable.

            by Jim in Chicago on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:16:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Normally that's true (0+ / 0-)

              however, given how unpopular bush was this time, I actually think open seats worked better for republicans because they couldn't be tied to Bush as well.  Or at least thats how I think it worked in Tennessee. I'm not sure we win Montana, Missouri, or Virginia if those are open seats with non-congressmen running

    •  Dude, the Ford family is so well (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      diplomatic, liberal atheist

      known in the state especially considering the scandal in the State senate with his aunt your premise that people didn't know that Harold is black is really, really weak.

      The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

      by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:45:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not MY premise. (0+ / 0-)

        I'm just repeating it and agreeing with it. To assume that 100% of the population knew everything about him is equally unbelievable, I didn't suggest everyone, I just suggested enough people to make the difference.

        --------
        Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

        by PBJ Diddy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:54:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  50,000 people???? (0+ / 0-)

          If the election were as close as VA or Montana I would accept your argument, but it wasn't.

          The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

          by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:02:56 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  also think (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            illinifan17

            if Virginia or Montana were open seats, and Tester and Webb were running against "clean" republicans (ie, republicans who were not in Congress, and thus had no direct tie to Bush), would they have won?

          •  Well, I heard the theory, (0+ / 0-)

            and I find it believable...it's certainly NOT believable to say race played no part whatsoever in this contest; and Ford for sure never made a mention of it himself.

            --------
            Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

            by PBJ Diddy on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:16:39 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I have heard plenty of (0+ / 0-)

              9/11 theories too, how about the one that we didn't land on the moon, nice theory, people even believe it.  That doesn't make either one of them true.  Until people can prove their theory with something other than anecdotal evidence I humbly suggest that you reserve judgment.

              As for Ford not mentioning it, Corker didn't mention that he is white, either.  I'll admit that I am a racist when it comes to voting, I only vote for members of the human race.  White, black, gay, straight, crossdresser, I don't care.  Don't even bother to tell me.  Now as for Rick Santorum's idea of half-dog/half human thing, I'd have to see which end is which...

              The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

              by deathsinger on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:30:13 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  This is an unnecessarily assinie response. (0+ / 0-)

                It's not a "conspiracy theory" I heard Tweety discuss it and he referenced a poll indicating that although Ford had a high name ID, there was a substantial % that was unaware of his race. I found it believable. If I could link to a TV show I would, but I don't really care if you believe it or not. If you don't, well, fine, but that doesn't make you a genius and me a kook...for you see, your THEORY that it isn't the case is also just a theory, you can't prove that EVERYONE DID know he was black, and you don't have anything but anecdotal evidence either.

                --------
                Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

                by PBJ Diddy on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:47:12 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Except (0+ / 0-)

      Ford did much better than Kerry, and Kerry is much whiter.

      Are you smart, liberal, and maybe a little cranky? Join us at the OND.

      by Sidof79 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 08:00:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not in total votes he didn't. (0+ / 0-)

        Kerry got 1,036,477 votes,
        Ford got 878,373.

        But you can't compare the two elections, for one thing Kerry didn't contest the state.

        --------
        Please don't bite the heads off the chocolate Elvises.

        by PBJ Diddy on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 09:53:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  How did Gore win TN senator (0+ / 0-)

    McCain=Bush 3rd Term--US worst nightmare; Stop Republican obstructionism- Elect a Democratic Majority.

    by timber on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:43:33 PM PDT

  •  Airport stunt lost few points? (0+ / 0-)

    McCain=Bush 3rd Term--US worst nightmare; Stop Republican obstructionism- Elect a Democratic Majority.

    by timber on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 07:44:27 PM PDT

    •  I don't know, possibly (0+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      diplomatic

      though his poll numbers didn't seem to go down, at least immediately after that incident.

      I think it was largely the fact that independent moderates gave Corker th benefit of the doubt because he wasn't an incumbent, and thus directly tied to Bush, more than anything else.

  •  The Problem with General Percentages is... (0+ / 0-)

    They can be very misleading and often give false impressions.  For exaple, very few voters will categorize themselves as "liberals" because they associate the word with weakness, enabling and other negative connotations.  People like to think of themselves as "Independent" and "moderate" because they think of themselves as people who make up their OWN mind and are generally well balanced.  However, when you ask them what issues are most important to them and where they stand on those issues, they tend to state positions that are actually quite liberal/progressive.  (Thom Hartmann has studied this and speaks about it regularly on his radio programs).  The original blog, to which you refer raises some interesteing questions, although I would agree that it does not get deep enough to the numbers to be able to back up the assertion that Ford lost due to his attempt to "out-Republican" the Republican.

  •  Alexander can't be (0+ / 0-)

    beaten by anyone. he was an extremely popular Republican Governor back in 1970s, and Republicans brought back form the political graveyard to hold a Senate they didn't want becoming competitive in 2002.

    Seize Every day, giving no thought for tommorrow-Horace

    by ArkDem14 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:16:37 PM PDT

  •  Finally some sanity (0+ / 0-)

    Jesus, the GOP just lost by using a "race to the base" strategy, and some of our own are saying we should do the same thing?  Just wow.

    All your vote are belong to us.

    by Harkov311 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:19:07 PM PDT

  •  Well (0+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    liberal atheist

    I got in trouble commenting about Ford today but I am intrepid.

    The reason Ford lost independents is because he did not use the politics of contrast, he used the Obama/DLC playbook.

    I explain why Tester is the futre  and not Obama here

  •  Medical coverage/economics/differences (0+ / 0-)

    What happened in fixing TennCare? Prescription drug coverage? Health care as a competitive disincentive to expanding employment( runaway shop)?

    Why were the stupid talking points what  God, gays, abortion had to do with US Senate? The Repubs talked BS "social issues" for FIVE years and did nothing to FIX Tennessee's problems except enrich their crony friends and America's billionaires.  And Corker's team got a pass on it.  Mine safety? Useless wars to enrich oil companies and their politician friends?

    The idea that Ford had to be moderate/conservative very close to Corker to "win" was really a strategy of "I am just like him, except I am a Democrat and Black".

    Frist won against a pretty good guy back when because he drowned him with cash.  Frist's clone (another Republican) promises he will be similar. Ford promised not to be different. So why should the Tennessee voter be excited and intense about Ford?
    If he is a Republican echo for the most part, there isn't any room for him to build a compelling case. It is a tough,tough place to be.  See how well Corker does as a do-nothing in the minority party. Sets him up to be vulnerable-in six years.

    McCain: Unlike Republicans, (most)he HAS dropped bombs on a people and country that did not attack America. It fits: Warmonger

    by Pete Rock on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:38:03 PM PDT

  •  Also... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tabbycat in tenn
    1.  His name was "Harold Ford."  It's not about his race, it's about the corruption and insanity in the family, exemplified by his uncle John (currently under indictment and heading for trial, and of numerous run-ins with the law).  While there's no reason to believe that HFJ has done anything corrupt, the "Ford" name is anathema to a substantial number of white liberal to moderate voters, especially in Memphis and its suburbs/exurbs.  "Harold Stevens" with the exact same ideology, campaign, and skin color as HFJ might well have won this race.  

    Being named "Ford" likely cost him more votes than "not being liberal/confrontational enough."

  •  Thank you for injecting sanity (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tabbycat in tenn

    Into this debate...

    Stephanie Dray
    of Jousting for Justice, a lefty blog with a Maryland tilt.

    by stephdray on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:49:40 PM PDT

  •  Your points are clear, not the overall picture (0+ / 0-)

    I agree that there is a certain glibness to saying that Ford "lost the left flank", and more than enough evidence to the contrary.

    Still, I think many of the points made in that diary can be read another way--that more liberal and left-leaning moderates did not bother to vote simply because Ford was not a significantly different and better candidate than Corker, and despite his much vaunted campaign prowess, he had his share of jaw-dropping stupidity and disingenuousness.

    I don't know if it's because Ford wasn't Liberal enough, or that he simply wasn't better enough.

    -8.38, -4.97 "...there is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." Hamlet, Act II, Scene ii.

    by thingamabob on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 08:59:40 PM PDT

  •  Why I've been reading the Ford threads so closely (0+ / 0-)

    My "you might be a redneck if..." credentials: I wear levi's, boots and a stetson more often than chino's and a blazer; I might grab a Starbucks at their kiosk at Safeway, but at home MJB is fine with me; I depend for my livelihood on my share of the proceeds from our family's working ranch (wheat and barley); I live in the one congressional district in my state that's so red that it doesn't make it even as high as the bottom tier of the 50-state-strategy (we were written off before we started -- didn't get a dime from the state or the national party -- the Oregon delegation is 4 democrats, one republican).  Oh, and I read my Bible more intently than I read dKos (although I'm a member of the clergy, so that probably doesn't count).

    My "bleeding heart liberal/treehugger/peacenik" credentials:  My first grassroots campaign was knockin' on doors, ringin' phones, and doin' everything else I could for McGovern in very hostile territory (but it worked -- he won our county, which could not be said for some of the "solid democrat" counties in our state).  Need I say more?

    That out of the way, I have been alternately frustrated, bemused, and baffled by the "He wasn't progressive enough"/"You don't know what it's like to live in Tennessee" back and forth ad infinitum.  Granted.  I've never lived in Tennessee.  I think it's more than just an educated guess, though, that like rural Oregon, it's a place where pickup trucks with gunracks are at least as common as SUV's, if not predominant; and a spokesman for the NRA would draw a bigger and more enthusiastic crowd than one for Amnesty International.  Nope, I haven't lived in Tennessee, but most of you probably haven't been to the Pendleton Roundup.  It doesn't need to be a pissin' contest.

    We all want to elect Democrats in our districts, right?  And we don't wanna have to do it by puttin' lipstick on a Repug pig.

    I frankly don't have a clue whether Ford seeming to relish stickin' it to the fags, and going out of his way to find a pretext to do it, creeped out the 15-20% self-identifying liberals in Tennessee as much as it did this live-and-let-live Oregonian.  Nor do I think it is possible to know what particular combination of factors truly cost him the election.

    I do think the Ford campaign teaches us that we can go too far with the whole "Blue Dog" thing, even in very conservative territory.  I hope we can find some pitfalls to avoid before repeating it in other similar districts in '08.

    Livin' as I do in the Oregon Second Congressional District, I want to learn all I can from Tester's win in Montana, and Ford's loss in Tennessee.  Why?  Because I started on Wednesday rollin' up my sleeves for another go at paintin' my district blue in '08 (not to mention convincing my neighbors to send a democrat to that place on Pennsylvania Avenue).

    Bottom line.  I understand the strong feelings of those who worked their butts off for the Democratic candidate from the State of Tennessee; and of course I also understand the folks who were less enthusiastic about Ford... I was one of them.  But let's not let it stand in the way of the post-mortems, right and wrong.  I need and appreciate the information that is being posted.

    Thanks.

    J-M

    Healthcare NOT Warfare! (Petition)

    by jgilhousen on Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:29:25 PM PDT

  •  Amazingly well researched! (0+ / 0-)

    the only other diaries i've seen pontificating on Ford have all been opinions.  Thanks for the numbers, and the great work!

    The notion that Ford lost because he wasn't overtly "liberal enough" is preposterous.  Just as your demographics demonstrate.

    He lost because he was black, and a Democrat.

  •  I disagree (0+ / 0-)

    And, in keeping with my just posted diary, I will attempt to be as civil as possible in debating this with you :-)

    First, the breakdown as to 'liberal', 'moderate', 'conservative' is 1) silly and 2) based on the wrong data.  (And I know you didn't come up with this FAJ, you're quoting exit polls.....the pollsters ask silly questions sometimes).  There are at least two dimensions to liberal-conservative ness in the USA, that's why the political numbers a lot of people put in their sigs are two dimensional.  

    But why do I say wrong data? Because they are based on exit polls, they only count people who voted.  Clearly, the vast majority of liberals who vote are going to vote for Ford.  I'm surprised 11% voted for Corker.  But what of the liberals who stayed home?  
    What of the GLBT people who stayed home?

    The breakdown by party makes more sense to me. Ford wins nearly all the Dems, Corker nearly all the Repubs.  The number of Dems and Repubs is about the same.  Given this, there are two ways to win.

    1.  Win more of the independents
    1.  Get more of your people to vote

    Ford's campaign did neither.  

    I am not suggesting the next TN-Sen Democratic nominnee should be, say, Barney Frank or Bernie Sanders.  I'm saying that Ford's incessant harping on his conservative credentials was playing to the wrong crowd.  He was trying to convince Corker voters to vote for him.  That's not going to work very well.  Repubs, by and large, vote for Repubs.  

  •  FYI (0+ / 0-)

    I wrote the same diary here, about two hours before.
    I think it's crap that two diaries with data and facts go unnoticed but a diary with speculation and heresay spends the night on the rec list...because that's what people want to hear.  People want to hear that Ford lost because he was a Republican, because that's what people have believed would happen since August.  It's just not true.

    Are you smart, liberal, and maybe a little cranky? Join us at the OND.

    by Sidof79 on Sat Nov 11, 2006 at 07:58:11 AM PDT

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