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So apparently the 50-state strategy was all James Carville's idea, and Howard Dean messed it up.

Carville, during coffee and rolls with political reporters today, said Democrats could have picked up as many as 50 House seats, instead of the nearly 30 they have so far.

The reason they didn't, he said, is the Democratic National Committee did not spend some $6 million it could have put into so-called "third tier" House races against vulnerable Republicans.

And what 20 other House seats would those be, Carville? And what about that $6 million that Emanuel sunk into just two losing campaigns, Duckworth's and Farrell's? And how about those third-tier races that the DCCC never went into or went into so late that it couldn't make a difference? How about ID-01? How much money did the DCCC spend there? How about WY-AL? How much did the DCCC spend on that one, Carville? Or maybe CO-06? The DCCC really stepped up for Bill Winter, there, didn't they.

Obviously James Carville is not a stupid man. He knows he didn't invent the 50-state strategy and that this line that they didn't pick up an additional 20 seats because of Dean is ridiculous. So what's the explanation? Why is he spouting these absurdities? Covering for Emanuel because he either ignored or got into the third tier of races so late? Frankly, Emanuel never imagined that we could have had 50 seat pickup this year, and he wanted to focus on the 20 races he started with, on his grand plan.

Is Carville is carrying Emanuel's water on this one? I don't know for sure, but I do know that the rest of the Dem Party establishment has credited Howard Dean and the 50-state strategy for the great success of this cycle. Senator Schumer said so himself in a comment in his diary today:

Friday night I was on the Bill Maher show and talked about what a great job Dean has been doing at the DNC.  The DNC helped out at a crucial time financially and organizationally that helped put us over the top.

Chuck Schumer hasn't run around to every traditional media outlet to pat himself on the back and hog all the credit for this victory, when our victories in the Senate were incredible. We all knew we'd take the House, but how many really thought we could swing six Senate seats? Schumer's leadership in this achievement was critical, but he graciously acknowledges all contributions to the effort.

This year we won because we are smart, committed to a common cause, determined, and indefatigable. The diversity of our new Democratic majority shows that we have a big tent. From Ben Cardin to Amy Klobuchar to Bob Casey to Bernie Sanders, to Jon Tester and James Webb, our candidates were energetic campaigners, and will now be exceptional members of the Senate.

Your efforts, combined with the DNC's 50-state strategy, is creating a political environment that is one of the best Democrats have seen in decades. Our bench of candidates is growing, our state parties are becoming stronger, and our prospects for growing our majority look brighter everyday.

Let's briefly look at some of what else the 50-state strategy achieved:

Fifteen state governments are now solidly blue politically, seven more than before the voting. Ten state capitals are fully in Republicans' hands, down from 12. The other 25 states have divided government.

The Democratic surge was not restricted by region, and puts the party in a strong position going into the 2008 presidential election because of the vast new extent of its grip on the levers of politics and policy.

In Tuesday's election, the Democrats picked up four open governors' seats that had been in GOP hands.

But I guess state legislatures and governors' seats don't matter in James Carville's or Rahm Emanuel's world.

If I'm wrong about Carville acting on Emanuel's behalf, then Rahm can set the record straight by disassociating himself from Carville's remarks and praising Dean. Unless he's too busy being interviewed for the next puff piece on how he made the world safe for Democrats again. I'm not holding my breath.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:53 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Take it on the chin...it's just Monday Morning QB (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Walt starr, cskendrick

    bullshit...

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:55:30 AM PST

  •  Carville=Rahm=Hillary Rodham Clinton (28+ / 0-)

    Rahm has publicly endorsed her for President.
    Carville is a close family advisor and has endorsed her for President.

    This is all about 2008 and the DNC and raising more money for the 22-state strategy for the General Election campaign.

  •  Ignore Carville and he will go away (16+ / 0-)

    He's just fuming because the Dems are back on top and he wasn't a part of it because he decided to marry a top GOP strategist instead of staying in the game.

    We are Democrats, united, on the same team and must move forward in that fashion. This food fight is most unseemly, most counterproductive and quite boring to boot.

    •  Which is why Carville (23+ / 0-)

      needs to shut the fuck up.

      "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

      by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:57:40 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And why he needs to (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PLS, sagra

        go the fuck away.

        Jon Kyl
        Incompetent, Bush's lapdog

        by Cato come back on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:31:55 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What if he's right (0+ / 0-)

        What then?

        •  Right about what? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          HillaryGuy

          That Howard Dean screwed up the Congressional races, which are the purview of the DCCC, btw? That the DCCC wanted 50 races to begin with and it was Dean's job to find the funding for it? (Once again, the DCCC is in charge of Congressional races and fundraising for them.) That Dean has so mismanaged the DNC that he should be ousted? On the heels of a signficant victory?

          "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

          by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:39:00 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Any of those things (0+ / 0-)

            I don't really care what the point of contention is, I object more to the rather violently expressed notion that Carville (or anyone else) shouldn't be allowed to say what they think

            •  Well, sure, it's pretty distasteful (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              mcjoan, HillaryGuy

              to a democratically-minded body of Democrats to impose gag orders on anyone.  People at dKos itself don't like being told to Shut Their F-ing Pie Hole, for example.

              But at the same time, I don't see how it's particularly productive for Carville to rain on the Dem's parade right now.  It's obnoxious, for one -- it's like the erstwhile team captain who watches the newbie lead the team to victory, saying, "Phht... I could have done it better."  That's like so totally obnoxious!

              Over and beyond that, it does something that Republicans are loathe to do:  break the party's united front.  Carville shouldn't be made to shut up, but does he need to share his critical musings openly with reporters?  Is that what Rove or Norquist do?  Can you imagine some prominent RNC advisor stepping in front of reporters immediately after the '94 victory and saying, "well, if they'd followed MY idea, we could have picked up 80 seats"?

              No one should be made to shut up.  But I reserve the right to say that they're an idiot for shooting their mouth off at the wrong time, and in front of the wrong audience.

              Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

              by Dale on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:54:43 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  I support at 100% (0+ / 0-)

                doing things Republicans are loathe to do!  What Rove/Norquist do just got a resounding "NO" from the majority of Americans..

                Plus for most folks this is inside baseball, at this particular moment, the voters just let us know what they think & a Carville vs Dean public argument is not going to turn things around and put the GOP back in power.  (I do think putting Murtha at majority leader post wouldn't help us on the ethics reform front though)

                •  have you ever met Howard Dean? (0+ / 0-)

                  just curious, because you appear to have no idea who or what he is about. Free speech is great. Ignorance and lies are not.

                  Please explain at least possibility where Carville could conceivably be right re his castigations of dean's choices/ Please be specific. Free speech and all.

                  •  I haven't met Dean personally. (0+ / 0-)

                    I started participating in the blogosphere via the Dean for America blog in summer 2003.  If the archives of that are still around anywhere you are free to check, I don't know if they are or not.  That's how I found Daily Kos (pre Scoop era) in the first place.  I went to Dean for American meetups and organizing events in Rhode Island, summer 2003 - early 2004.  I heard him speak at a small high school in New Hampshire, late 2003.

                    Carville could be right in that the DNC's plan is sound, but implementation is not.  Or in that strategically, it's more wise to put up enough money to win more seats in the current climate, so favorable to us, than use all the money for long term party building.  He could be right.  It's about strategy and use of resources and what he sees as far as how DNC resources are being used and what potential it has.

              •  Again and again (0+ / 0-)

                It is the corporate media.
                It is the filter (gag) that screens out serious Democrats and promotes the corporation kissers exclusive venues.
                It is becoming even worse.  The ABC news division seemed on an even keel.  Anybody watched it in in the past few days?

                The corporate media is the enemy.

            •  He can say whatever the fuck he wants (6+ / 0-)

              behind closed doors with the powers that be.

              But carrying on this very public pissing match is harmful to the party. It's destructive. It feeds into the narrative of Dems in disarray. It does no one any good.

              If he has real, valid concerns about the way the DNC is being run, he has the ears of the people who need to hear it. Taking his fight to the press is distasteful and destructive.

              "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

              by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:07:25 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

          •  I mean, it's a big tent isn't it (0+ / 0-)

            One person's "let's maintain party discipline and STFU" is another person's views and interests getting trampled on and silenced, innit

            •  Again, isn't it a question of where (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Malacandra, kaye, Yamara

              those views are shared?  If Carville wants to share his strategic vision in closed session with other Democratic leaders, great.  But does he need to go straight to the media with his ideas?  

              Isn't this what we objected to with Lieberman?  If it was simply that he had dissenting views, would we have mounted a primary challenge?  Or is it that he systematically chose the mose public forums -- the little standing "O" at Bush's SOTU address; the Fox News interviews bashing Dems -- to air this dissent?

              Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

              by Dale on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:58:48 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  Carville's presence is out of proportion (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              The Gryffin, kaye

              Dissent is one thing. Filling the most available airtime with a position that is made of nothing but self-aggrandizing fantasy bravado is disservice.

              It's deliberately counterproductive to the success of what most Democrats are after, and what they have been working for. Thus, he should "STFU".

              Carville is the magician's hanky, though. He's actually nothing. The more he's waving away out there, the more I start looking at the other hand: Rahm Emanuel.

              "To such thinking you have only to say 'the land you loved is doomed' to excuse any treachery, indeed to glorify it." -Tolkien, On Fairy-Stories, 1938.

              by Yamara on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:06:14 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  How is he right? (0+ / 0-)

          I mean that in all seriousness.  If Dean pursued a fifty-state strategy, against heavy opposition from the Dem establishment, and it succeeded in gaining Dems many seats, and even erstwhile skeptics are now attributing the win to Dean's decision to have someone competent running in every district, and money for certain races that the earlier strategy would have deemed lost causes, then where does Carville's brilliant strategy fit into all this?  How is he right?

          Nothing requires a greater effort of thought than arguments to justify the rule of nonthought. -- Milan Kundera

          by Dale on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:44:22 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I don't know and it's not my job to explain. (0+ / 0-)

            We'll never find out if he's right or wrong, if the answer is to order him to STFU.

            Surely if Dean is doing such a great job, the facts will stand up to scrutiny, yes?  

            •  Scrutiny (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HillaryGuy, Cottagerose

              McGovern and a lot of other people were right about the war in Vietnam. But the Democrats who had been involved in the prosecution of the war under the Johnson administration helped undercut his campaign in 1972. People in his own party poo-pooed him -- a veteran with 35 bomber missions over Europe and a Distinguished Flying Cross -- as some sort of soft hippy peacenik. The end result was that Nixon won handily, only to continue the war for another couple of years, to have his VP resign in disgrace for acts committed while he was still governor of Maryland, and to run out of office himself before he was impeached. Yet Nixon's the one who's generally regarded as the better statesman, his cronies (Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.) are the ones who are advising the current administration on Iraq.

              So sure, facts stand up to historical scrutiny, but a lot of damage can get done in the process, not only to reputations, but more importantly to people, the nation, and the world. The whole "history will be our judge" is so GW Bush, don't you think?

              Those who do not learn from history are stupid. --darrelplant

              by darrelplant on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:22:05 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  i think daria might be troll-baiting (0+ / 0-)

                Now a non-HillaryGuy. No, I am still a guy, but probably with smaller balls than Rahm. But Hill's people piss me off. Rahm + Carville = a ton of ego

                by HillaryGuy on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:57:40 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  ? (0+ / 0-)

                  I feel pretty strongly about this - if we're in the reality-based community, we should be able to have a good honest debate and the truth will out.

                  •  cool, good enough for me. (0+ / 0-)

                    but the repetitive exact same questions you were asking seemed funny, that's all.  it's all good.

                    Now a non-HillaryGuy. No, I am still a guy, but probably with smaller balls than Rahm. But Hill's people piss me off. Rahm + Carville = a ton of ego

                    by HillaryGuy on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:14:41 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Debate (0+ / 0-)

                    Then present some facts of your own.

                    Adults -- and people in contact with reality -- know that the good guys don't always win.

                    BTW, the site you're linking in your sig, is that a Republican shill site, or what? I notice that a bunch of the "Most Corrupt" Republicans they're touting are on their way out from retirement or have been defeated at the polls. So that way they can include Murtha and Maxine Waters and pretend that it's a bipartisan slam on corruption? Interesting game.

                    Those who do not learn from history are stupid. --darrelplant

                    by darrelplant on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:45:14 PM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  No, it's not (0+ / 0-)

                      I mean, you could Google and read up about it before you accuse me of that.

                      •  Google (0+ / 0-)

                        I don't need to Google it. I just looked at the list of the people on the site and noticed that a number of people on their list were on the way out already. I didn't accuse you of being associated with the site, either, just linking to it.

                        On the other hand, the "It's OK if you're a Democrat?" sig looks a little twinky. Why be coy about it?

                        Those who do not learn from history are stupid. --darrelplant

                        by darrelplant on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 08:48:09 PM PST

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  ? (0+ / 0-)

                          I mean, you looked at the list of the people on the site and came up with a conspiracy theory about the site planting GOP names in there to masquerade as nonpartisan!

                          It's a liberal think tank founded by some ex-Clinton staff.  It listed mostly GOP because, surprise surprise, the most corrupt members are GOP.  

                          I have a problem with corruption.  I have a problem with folks glossing over Murtha's history in this regard by saying "whatever Nancy wants, Nancy gets" and essentially, it's OK, because we're Democrats.  It's not OK.

                •  ((( i think daria might be troll-baiting ))) (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  HillaryGuy

                  there's not a doubt about it.

                  Hey -- you don't get off saying "I have no idea how he's wrong and it's not my job to explain". Yes it is.  There's  a very odd ring to your comments. When someone feigns neutrality yet endorses, in a passive-agressive way, unfounded assaults, it's suitable cause to wonder why you raise the question at all about "what if Carville is right?"

                  If you have reason to ask that question and you are since, then you have some obligation to know what you're talking about, otherwise where is your value add to this discussion. What if they're right, you're a troll?

                  I have no obligation to find out one way or another, and it'n not my job to do so. Free speech and all.

            •  Facts are one thing, attacks are another (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Patricia Taylor

              If Carville has valid criticisms of Dean's management of the DNC, why doesn't he articulate them, rather than making ad hominem arguments on the basis of wild conjecture like "We would have won 50 seats in the House if not for Dean".

              That kind of statement cannot possibly be verified or falsified.  And no amount of water under the bridge can change that. Historical analysts can never verify hypothetical claims.

              What we can see is that Dean has raised record sums for a DNC chair in an off year, and has hired people in every state to help with grassroots organizing and strategy. When Dean does local fundraising across the country, rather than taking the money back to Washington, as his predecessor did, he leaves it where it can do good locally.

              These are verifiable empirical and incontrovertible facts. Whether these tactics ended up helping Democrats achieve victory is arguable. But Carville isn't arguing facts - he's making personal attacks.

              And that's not helpful to the health of the party or forwarding our understanding of the situation, regardless whether he's right or wrong.

              Victory has many fathers, but Howard Dean was the doctor in the delivery room.

              by Malacandra on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:46:59 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  Thats what I thought the first time (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cosette, Luetta, kaye, LithiumCola

      he made those comments.  The fact that he has reiterated them makes it clear he is working on someone else's behalf.

    •  He's fuming about $$$ (8+ / 0-)

      I doubt he's doing this at Rahm's behest or anything. I think he's pissed because Dean is starting to get recognition internationally as a shrewd strategist and he and others are starting to create a "new wave" of Democratic political strategists. This puts Carville's lucrative international consulting business at risk.

      You think KMart doesn't run around denigrating Target? Well, to Carville, it's much that same thing here. Dean and others of his ilk are competition.

      Maybe I'm too cynical and narrow about Carville's motives here, but it wouldn't surprise me ...

      •  Right, the labour party in the UK hired Dean (0+ / 0-)

        to advise them on their regional elections coming up in May.  I am sure Carville has burned with envy.  I guess he thinks he should be the only one to be able to put food on the table.

        Now a non-HillaryGuy. No, I am still a guy, but probably with smaller balls than Rahm. But Hill's people piss me off. Rahm + Carville = a ton of ego

        by HillaryGuy on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:00:36 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  He's preparing the road for Hillary '08 (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      rick, tmo, PLS, Cottagerose, CTDemoFarmer

      He's working to clear the way for her.  He doesn't care if it ends the DNC, the grassroots or the netroots.  They know what's best for the country.  It doesn't include the rabble.

      •  it's all good (0+ / 0-)

        Carville and his ilk are the past, and he knows it all too well.

      •  Mark November 5, 2008, in your calendar (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        rick

        That is the day after Hillary goes down in flames, the post-Clinton era begins in Democratic politics, and the long-overdue work of reforming the party starts in earnest.

        "The pooh-bahs of the parties of all colours have made themselves actually more important than the individual electors."--Garth Turner, Canadian MP

        by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:26:43 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Let her run in 2012 (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kaye

          That's when her term as MY Senator is over. I say she has to stay in the Senate until then.

          Ah, but won't the Democratic President be running for reelection that year?

          Oh well.

          "To such thinking you have only to say 'the land you loved is doomed' to excuse any treachery, indeed to glorify it." -Tolkien, On Fairy-Stories, 1938.

          by Yamara on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:13:01 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Please make that your sigline... (0+ / 0-)

          ((( Mark November 5, 2008, in your calendar. That is the day after Hillary goes down in flames, the post-Clinton era begins in Democratic politics, and the long-overdue work of reforming the party starts in earnest. )))

          You said it the other day in a post on the "Russ is out" thread -- and it made great sense then. I think you should let that point punctuate all of your posts. but that's just me :)

      •  Exactly, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        kaye

        that was the problem with Dean all along, that he wanted to bring the rabble to the table. He was a DLC darling before that. Clinton said something to the effect that if we could bottle what Howard has, we would win all over the country. You see, prior to being picked by a movement to be it's leader, Howard was a cracker-jack administrator. But Dean is from a very small NE state, one in which democracy still exists because you know your politicians. Howard's home phone # was in the telephone book, people could call their governor in VT. That's why Bernie won, and why VT was the only state to go for Dean... long after he hadn't a prayer.

        That was Howard's achilles heel for the DLC, his belief in democracy.

    •  And I used to like Carville too... (0+ / 0-)

      I once thought he was one of the best political strategist in the Democratic ranks.  Now I realize he is just a relic of the past.  He can't conform to the political game of 2006, so he denounces the way the netroots and Dean play the game.  Which is why he now works for CNN instead of running someone's campaign.  

      It's the equivalent of your grandfather denouncing the computer because he thinks the typewriter is the only way to type letters.  

      The Dems have great VP candidates for 2008: Richardson, Bayh, Clark, Sebelius, etc, but who's going to head the ticket?

      by DemBrock on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:30:01 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  But that's not true (0+ / 0-)

      <sigh>

      I feel like I'm in bizarro world here

      There are things that are true and things that are false

      Dean's 50 state strategy being the real reason we won = not true (and whatever you think of the merits, successes, failures thereof, it wasn't designed to pay dividends so early!)

      Carville out of the game instead of helping Dems win elections = not true

      •  I'm not saying the 50-state strategy (6+ / 0-)

        is what won this. No one is, including Howard. What everyone in the Party besides Emanuel and Carville have done is recognize that every player, the DNC, the DSCC, the DCCC, the grassroots and the netroots played a crucial role in this election.

        Emanuel's open war with Dean has gone on quite long enough, thank you. Carville has no place feeding it.

        "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

        by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:41:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  as my mom would say... you're just (0+ / 0-)

        ...talking to hear yourself talk.

        ((( Dean's 50 state strategy being the real reason we won = not true (and whatever you think of the merits, successes, failures thereof, it wasn't designed to pay dividends so early!)

        Carville out of the game instead of helping Dems win elections = not true )))

        If you have something to add of substance, please by all means reveal it.

        Global warming is not due to our oil addiction. Many things play a role.

        ---- Really? Such as? ----

        ((( Oh I don't know what else they would be, but one thing's for sure, there are other factors at play )))

        Note how useful the above statements are.

    •  Ignoring seems like a good strategy (0+ / 0-)

      This is my inclination as well.  Why give him any more fame or power?

    •  Carville has become the insignificant (0+ / 0-)

      talking head that CNN puts up beside the equally insignificant BAy Buchanan (shrill Bitch).

      No one listens to Bay and hasn't for a couple years. And now Carville is her pardner.

      Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

  •  Shorter James Carville (18+ / 0-)

    "I used to be relevant, but now I'm just making shit up."

  •  Carville is just looking for relevancy... (11+ / 0-)

    at a time he's been demonstrated to be irrelevant.

    They won it without him , after all...so now he's got to go around and say how he would have done it better.

    Ridiculous.  And if he's carrying Rahm's water, Rahm is ridiculous, too.

    We are a party of innovation...We are willing to suffer the discomfort of change in order to achieve a better future. --Barbara Jordan

    by wmtriallawyer on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:57:05 AM PST

  •  Hoho needs to post a shut-the-fuck-up (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, PLS, mcjoan, lawnorder, BillyZoom, cskendrick

    James-Carville BAT

    so we can all contribute.

    Investigate Indict Impeach Imprison

    by HighSticking on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:57:13 AM PST

  •  I was wrong, I admit it, and I'd like to help out (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, blogswarm, sardonyx, NoMore, cosette, kaye

    That was a gracious James Carville would say, and that contrition would be well-taken.

    pause

    Let me know if you find one of those. :)

    I feel like I am part of my own country again.

    by cskendrick on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 11:57:17 AM PST

  •  Please don't pile on Duckworth (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    bink, campskunk, AceDeuceLady

    I thought she ran a fine campaign.

  •  Oh, bite me James (13+ / 0-)

    You've milked 1992 long enough.  More than long enough.  Go away.

  •  Thanks (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    This analysis makes more sense than anything else I have seen.  

  •  It's Not Just About Money (8+ / 0-)

    The 50-state strategy is not just about money.  It's not just about "putting money into races" as Schumer said.  It's about building up the state parties and local infrastructures so that good will and good candidates are there when election time comes about.  These people ...

    I don't know if they can be reformed.

    •  asdf (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rolfyboy6

      Exactly!  The stupid powers that be in Washington still don't get it!  It isn't about money money money.  It is about PEOPLE power.  Are they really that dense that they don't get it.

      * 2859 * http://icasualties.org/oif/

      by BDA in VA on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:26:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly... (0+ / 0-)

      which is why my monthly campaign contribution of $25 goes to the DNC.  We need to build the infrastructure in the states that the Republicans built 20 years ago.  

      The Dems have great VP candidates for 2008: Richardson, Bayh, Clark, Sebelius, etc, but who's going to head the ticket?

      by DemBrock on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:33:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  He has some hidden agenda (10+ / 0-)
    • The most likely is that he wants a DNC chair that will be a puppet for  H. Clinton.  
  •  Hillary Mouthpiece (12+ / 0-)

    Hillary does not like Dean.  Period.  Hillary wants someone that drools over her.  Dean will not torpedo the entire party so Careerist Hillary can become president.  

    •  So Hillary can become president? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jacks Mom

      She will never be president. Unless she could somehow run against W. She would loose big to just about anyone, because she has such high negatives already. And unlike Gore, she hasn't changed at all... she has nothing new to offer the American people.

  •  Carville Needs To Be Repudiated ... (7+ / 0-)

    Where it will hurt him the most ... in the pocketbook!  Any Democrat who hires Matlin's Mate should receive zero, nada zippo dollars from the progressive community.  Period.  No exceptions.

    God forbide if Hillary puts the weasle on the payroll.

    Can you even imagine the repercussions!

    rok for dean
    •  Mod parent way up! (0+ / 0-)
      See the comment above this one? Recommend it!

      We in the netroots have no power -- UNLESS we organize.

      Together we have power. Let's let every candidate know the can tap us for contributions and volunteers and buzz, OR they can hire James Carville and get nothing but our disdain.

      Say it now, say it until '08, say it loud.

      Accountability moment, my ass!

      by orthogonal on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:16:09 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Someone needs to wipe that smirk off Rahm's face (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HighSticking, campskunk

    May Bob Knight?
    http://www.youtube.com/...

    Bush will be impeached.

    by jgkojak on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:00:10 PM PST

  •  We shouldn't waste (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, AceDeuceLady, CTDemoFarmer
    another day discussing this irrelevant, out-of-touch loser.  He and others are just trying to stir up shit.

    He's not looking out for the long-term interests of the Democratic party.  Dean, among others, on the other hand, are.  So, Carville, just STFU and go away.

  •  James Carville needs to be... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, Little Lulu

    Retired into the political pasture.

    Of course, I think he might need to become a full-time father sometime soon (I'm pretty sure he has young kids) because his wife has a very real chance of going to jail because of Plamegate.

    •  no (7+ / 0-)

      There should be an intrnet wide campaign reminding people

      1. Carville has direct link to Cheney office and will relay all insider info
      1. He is a big corporate media and beltway boy. He has serious contempt for voters and people. To him it's all show business.

      These are the type who keeps intorducing loser idea to democratic candidate and trying to pull 'Republican lite' idea.

      Republican lite has been repudiated. And these people are irrelevant if not slightly dangerous.

  •  Nope, he's carrying Hillary's water (12+ / 0-)

    Everything Carville does betwen now and November 4, 2008, relates precisely to getting Hillary into the White House.

    Everything.

    James Carville is the reincarnation of Pierre Gustave Toutant Beauregard. If you don't know what Beauregard started, look it up.

    by Walt starr on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:02:22 PM PST

    •  It's about Hillary (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kaye, Cottagerose

      Howard Dean is not going to genuflect for Hillary in 2008. Howard Dean therefore must go.

      Carville is dead to me. That passage from Woodward's book where he gave inside info on Kerry's Ohio plans to the wifey sealed the deal for me. This is just icing on the cake.

      Carville is dead to me.

      Don't like crooks in D.C.? Vote Against Charles Taylor (NC-11) who is one of them.

      by trifecta on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:53:15 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Money's not everything (0+ / 0-)

    You could have spent all the money in the world and that still wouldn't have flipped a district like CO-5, or an entrenched incumbent like Shirley Capito in West Virginia.  The biggest obstacle to a a 50-seat gain was incumbency and re-districting.  What people forget is that in 1994, there were a lot more Democratic retirements in contestable districts than there were Republicans in 2006.

    The Republicans. The party of fear and smear.

    by Paleo on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:02:29 PM PST

  •  Rahm was late on 50 state and Iraq (10+ / 0-)

    Paul Lukasiak:

       Despite all the praise being heaped upon Rahm Emanuel for the Democratic Party takeover of the House of Representatives, his strategy was a failure. The simple fact is that Emanuel's plan was to target 21 Republican seats as part of his Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee's "Red to Blue" strategy, and as of right now, while Democrats needed to take 15 seats to regain control, only nine of those 21 DCCC picked seats have changed hands (three are still in contention). Most of these candidates were "hand-picked" by Emanuel, based on his perception of their prospects to win election---and most of them failed, often by significant margins-- and at great financial cost. [...]

       In other words, out of 35 races that the DCCC targeted for conversion to the Democratic Party by early July, Emanuel only managed to find "winners" in 12 of them on his own-- at least five of his other victories were based on progressive bloggers providing the seed money that demonstrated that these were viable candidates. Moreover, the DCCC picks included at least 6 races where the challenger does not seem to have had a realistic chance of success-- in other words, Emanuel directed money to candidates that could have been better used elsewhere. [...]

       By way of contrast, the two largest ActBlue affiliated fundraising groups supported nine winning candidates before the DCCC finally recognized their competitive nature-- and supported eight other progressive candidates that, had they had earlier and more substantial support from the DCCC, stood an excellent chance of winning their races.

       The most significant failure of Emanuel's strategy was his inability to recognize until it was too late truly competitive races in which progressives ran against entrenched right-wing incumbents. His "fourth wave" candidates included Charlie Brown (-7000), Larry Kissell (-480), Eric Massa (-6000), and Victoria Wulsin (-2300) all were within reach of defeating some of the most noxious right-wingers in the House, yet were virtually ignored by Emanuel. Emanuel's fourth wave also included Jack Davis (who came within 5700 votes of unseating Foley-tainted Tom Reynolds-- had the DCCC invested in that race when the Foley scandal broke, it could have made the difference) and Larry Grant, who was vying for an open seat in Idaho, and lost by 12,000 votes against a far-right winger.

    Check out the four tables he uses to make his case.

  •  If you think this is bad (10+ / 0-)

    Wait until 2008 when the Dem nominee (let's assume that's Hillary for the moment) and the DC jerks running his or her campaign will march into all the DNC outposts in the hinterlands, demand their lists and other data data, and fire or marginalize the local organizers in favor of loyalists they'll send in from Washington.

    If they can paint Dean as incompetant now they have a better argument to put this scenario in place in 08.

    This is the first salvo in that fight.

    You heard it here first.

    Some people say the glass is half empty. Other people say the glass is half full. I say the glass needs some Scotch.

    by PaulDem on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:04:10 PM PST

    •  That's the way I see it (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kaye, Cottagerose

      Team Hillary will be so heavy-handed in sweeping opponents from power that millions of Democrats will either sit out the presidential race or vote for a third party.

      If nominated, she will lose by at least 10 million votes and take the entire ticket, from U.S. Senate down to town constable, down to defeat. It will be beyond ugly.

      "The pooh-bahs of the parties of all colours have made themselves actually more important than the individual electors."--Garth Turner, Canadian MP

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:30:16 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  If they have that much power over the DNC (0+ / 0-)

      then nothing Carville says is going to make a difference one way or the other. They will just do what they want not really caring what the reaction will be.

      Carville is saying this because he likes to get attention. No more, no less.

  •  Jeez (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RichM, sardonyx, cosette, kaye, jorndorff

    Our biggest off-year landslide since 1974 and he's bitching that it wasn't enough.

    This is like having a three-way with Miss June and Miss July and feeling let down because Miss August decided to sit it out.

    I, for one, am thrilled with Howard Dean and thrilled with our Democratic majority.

    The Republican Party: Keeping America Fact-Free Since 2001

    by IndyScott on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:04:11 PM PST

  •  When will Rahm (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette

    Show up here?  I'm withholding judgement on sockpuppets, et al until I hear it from Rahm, who IMO opinion did a creditable job himself (not stellar, but creditable).  Schumer came here personally and gave Rahm and Dean credit personally.  Let's see if Rahm is big enough to do the same.

    "We're not going to tell you what our plan is, Jon, because you're just going to go out and blow it." -- Burns to Tester

    by mspicata on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:04:18 PM PST

  •  How do we stamp out this fire before it spreads? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, orthogonal, kaye

    Carville and Emanuel need to fall into line before they stir up real problems or persue some Mchiavellian plan to unseat Chairman Dean.

    How do we strike first and where?

    Carville's sell-out of Kerry seems a good place and theme to start with. And like the saying goes a strong offense is a good defense.

  •  I think Dean did a masterful job (4+ / 0-)

    He had to balance building state party infrastructure with the short term prospect the Dems could take over Congress.

    In reality, he struck the perfect balance. He provided just enough resources for the Dems to get over the top and take back Congress without sacrificing his long term efforts to build up the state parties and compete everywhere.

    Sure, if he had husbanded that money to spend on federal races tihs year we might have picked up a few more seats in the House, but that would have sacrificed the longterm goals of building a lasting majority.

    So, carville is being pennywise and pound foolish.

    •  You're right (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kaye

      I sort of see the Democrats making an equilateral triangle this cycle. The DC establishment, Dean and his 50-State Strategy, and the netroots were in perfect harmony, and I think that's the reason we maximized our gains this election, especially in the Senate.

      If Carville was merely being an idiot, his statements wouldn't be worth discussing. What makes them worth discussing is that Carville, and Clinton and Emmanuel if Jimbo is acting as their mouthpiece, is that they seem to be deliberately provoking a civil war in the party, and for what?

      And if you buy Lukasiak's analysis posted upthread, the Democrats would not have won the Senate and might not have taken the House if they'd strictly followed Emmanuel's strategy of targeting less than two dozen seats.

      "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

      by AustinCynic on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:55:42 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why don't we primary (4+ / 0-)

    again Rahm? I'm serious.

    "I don't wanna listen to the fundamentalist preachers anymore!" -Howard Dean

    by astronautagogo on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:04:39 PM PST

  •  Some wars are nice (0+ / 0-)

    LIKE THIS ONE

  •  Serious question hoping for a serious answer (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette
    Did James Carville do anything constructive for Dem candidates in '06?

    If so, what?

    Accountability moment, my ass!

    by orthogonal on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:05:27 PM PST

    •  He yakked for cash at least once (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poemless, orthogonal

      He headlined a private fundraiser for Diane Farrell here in CT-04 a few weeks ago.

      The DCCC poured a ton of money into her race.  She lost.

      aka "Maura in CT", since I'm back now in the Nutmeg State, where I grew up...

      by Maura in VA on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:24:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  See for yourself: (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      orthogonal, Mrs Panstreppon

      Carville's HomePage

      "We no longer handle domestic races and have not taken a new client since President Clinton in 1992.  We do handle all international and corporate consulting and welcome offers or inquiries through this office.

      "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

      by LithiumCola on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:26:27 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Carville links to Matalin's site (0+ / 0-)

        Thanks for the link. Check out the tiny print on Carville's home page - www.matalin.info. I cannot imagine being married to anyone who deliberately told big, fat lies to gain support for a corrupt war, let alone have my children call her "Mom".

        Carville and Matalin market their marriage as a  Punch and Judy Show for grownups. It is not amusing to those Americans who care about good government.

      •  Domestic consulting through Greenberg ... Researc (0+ / 0-)
        •  And here's a note by Greenberg ... (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ipl
          ... at the same breakfast event:
          "There was a missed opportunity here," Greenberg said. "I've sat down with Republican pollsters to discuss this race: They believe we left 10 or 20 seats on the table."
          I tend to agree, and I think most analysts will when the dust settles.

          None Dare Call It Stupid!

          by RonK Seattle on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 04:20:19 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  The Monitor Breakfast story, from CSM (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ipl
          http://www.csmonitor.com/...

          Other Carvillisms:

          "We beat the hell out of them at the committees, at the congressional committees. The DNC left the money on the table"

          "the point of a political party is not to hire people, it is to elect people"

          "The biggest danger for Democrats is that we do what we kind of do sometimes [and] fracture ...if it looks like we are kind of fighting and incapable and don't get anything done, that is our biggest danger"

          None Dare Call It Stupid!

          by RonK Seattle on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 04:37:49 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  Carville recruited, advised and fundraised ... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ipl
      ... for many (most?) of our winners in 2006.

      He also broke the funding logjam for the Senate by calling out the party organs in mid-October, and directly inspired the netroots to put contribution pressure on safe incumbents.

      Some detail of the funding story here
      http://www.dailykos.com/...

      Pick your favorite winner (or near-winner), and google up the Carville connection.

      Carville is a winner who hates losing, and especially hates losing winnable races.

      None Dare Call It Stupid!

      by RonK Seattle on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:55:45 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  everyone please read this diary (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette, Oothoon, Cottagerose

    about the ass-kicking wrought by the 50 state strategy.  I'd urge recommending it, but whoops, it's not a DKos diary, it's from Redstate!  It credits Dean with "destroying" the Republican party in Delaware.

    See this comment for link and excerpt:  http://dailykos.com/...

    Some Democrats are nervous that Dean, who has actively opposed the Iraq war from the start, will galvanize Republicans. --CNN, Saturday, February 12, 2005

    by clyde on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:05:31 PM PST

  •  Right.On. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cookiesandmilk, aimeeinkc

    This  FP piece has hit all the right points.  Carville is bloviating for his establishment friends.  Nothing more.  

    They're all worried - and they rightly should be - that they will become irrelevant as "people powered politics" and the progressive/populist message becomes EVEN more powerful.  And it all began because of Dean.  

    Schumer is playing it smart - he's knows not to push this "movement" away; especially when it was this movement that put the Dems back in national play and is making the conservatives irrelevant.  

    I've never trusted Carville.  And I hope this means the end of this elitist shill.

  •  Sockpuppet or maybe (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PLS, cookiesandmilk, jorndorff

    troll

    "Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." ~ Diderot

    by Bouwerie Boy on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:07:44 PM PST

  •  Blame it on Tom Udall NM-03 (4+ / 0-)

    And others like him who sat on big warchests while newly competitive races were starved for cash.  And, at the same time, kudos to those who responded to the Use It or Lose It campaign, which probably helped net a few seats in the final days.

  •  coffee and rolls (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, aimeeinkc

    am i the only one bothered by the phrase '...during coffee and rolls with political reporters today...'?

    something about that portrait grates on my nerves.

  •  Carville sleeps with the enemy. He has no (6+ / 0-)

    credibility for the Dem party and he's also a f'ng loser when it comes to winning for Dems in the last two elections.  Finally, with Dean's leadership, we win and he's grousing?  WTF?  Is there any possible explanation for this other than he's a spoiler?  And if he's a f'ng spoiler, let's start shouting that he doesn't speak for the Dem party.  He's not our consultant, we don't follow his lead, he's OBSOLETE.  He's a loser!  He's working undercover for Mary Rethug Matalin, to keep her out of the slammer for helping to out Valerie Plame.  In other words, he's helping his traitorous wife at our expense.

    Get out of our faces, Carville!  You're FINISHED.

  •  Did he really say $6 million? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tmo, blogswarm, aimeeinkc, kaye
    What a joke.

    Audit the DCCC books and you'll find your $6 million Carville.

    As for Howard at DNC, as long as he continues pushing the money out to the states instead of keeping it in D.C. he'll be chairman.  And everyone knows it.

    Hey Roberts lovers, a link to a CNN story PRIOR to the nomination: Big Biz Draws Up Supreme Court Wish List

    by DWCG on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:08:47 PM PST

    •  buying votes? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      ipl

      As for Howard at DNC, as long as he continues pushing the money out to the states instead of keeping it in D.C. he'll be chairman.

      Yes, because with the 50-state plan Dean is signing the payroll checks for people who vote for DNC chair.  I am very uncomfortable with that.

      Also, when I want to help the state parties with their organizing, I send them money.  I regularly contribute to two State Democratic Parties.  When I want to to help the national party, I now have to send it to the DCCC or the DSCC.  Why should the DNC sent all its money to the states when people like me are free to support whatever state party we wish?  The DNC is the Democratic NATIONAL committee, not the Dean 50 State project.

  •  What did hte GOP talk about immediately after (0+ / 0-)

    the 1994 elections? Does anyone remember, or is anyone willing to go back and find out?

    Did they have public wars amongst super-egos of the party?

    Or did the get to business, writing the bills that would become laws per the Contract with America?

    17. Ne5

    In chess you may hit a man when he's down -- Irving Chernev, on Przepiorka v. Prokes, Budapest, 1929

    by Spud1 on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:10:13 PM PST

  •  Parochial, yes (0+ / 0-)

    But here's a Vermont take on Dean:

    http://www.timesargus.com/...

    "We're not going to tell you what our plan is, Jon, because you're just going to go out and blow it." -- Burns to Tester

    by mspicata on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:10:21 PM PST

  •  maybe his wife is putting these thoughts (0+ / 0-)

    in his head. She knows have effective Dean is, and really yearns of incompetent fools running the dnc.

  •  Carville isn't Rahm's agent. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder
    He's Bush's.

    - What happens on DailyKos, stays on Google. - 11/7 changed everything.

    by Jon Meltzer on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:10:47 PM PST

  •  Can't we please (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder

    just ignore him?

  •  I think Carville's freelancing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder, mspicata

    He can't get Rahm to return his calls anymore.  He just sits around with his over-the-hill beltway hacks and complains.  And this is part of it.

    Is Karl Rove still entitled to "THE MATH"?

    by pontificator on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:11:10 PM PST

    •  I think you're right (0+ / 0-)

      These pressers of his have a tone of desperation about them: "I am TOO still relevant!"

      BTW, did anyone else notice how useless he was in his CNN analytical chair on Election night?  He barely commented.  It looks like he was quite pissed.

      "We're not going to tell you what our plan is, Jon, because you're just going to go out and blow it." -- Burns to Tester

      by mspicata on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:19:44 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Emanuel by the numbers (8+ / 0-)

    Over at DownWithTyranny!, Paul Lukasiak has a detailed analysis of just how Rahm did and concludes that Rahm's strategy was a failure.

    In other words, out of 35 races that the DCCC targeted for conversion to the Democratic Party by early July, Emanuel only managed to find "winners" in 12 of them on his own-- at least five of his other victories were based on progressive bloggers providing the seed money that demonstrated that these were viable candidates. Moreover, the DCCC picks included at least 6 races where the challenger does not seem to have had a realistic chance of success-- in other words, Emanuel directed money to candidates that could have been better used elsewhere.

    [...]

    The most significant failure of Emanuel's strategy was his inability to recognize until it was too late truly competitive races in which progressives ran against entrenched right-wing incumbents. His "fourth wave" candidates included Charlie Brown (-7000), Larry Kissell (-480), Eric Massa (-6000), and Victoria Wulsin (-2300) all were within reach of defeating some of the most noxious right-wingers in the House, yet were virtually ignored by Emanuel. Emanuel's fourth wave also included Jack Davis (who came within 5700 votes of unseating Foley-tainted Tom Reynolds-- had the DCCC invested in that race when the Foley scandal broke, it could have made the difference) and Larry Grant, who was vying for an open seat in Idaho, and lost by 12,000 votes against a far-right winger.

    Reasons why the strategy failed, and the Democratic victory would not have happened without the grassroots/netroots:

    1. Emanuel's tendency to seek out "Republican Lite" candidates, while ignoring more progressive candidates.
    1. Emanuel virtually ignored the importance of the grassroots in choosing candidates.
    1. Emanuel's decision to concentrate early on a limited number of races (21) where Democrats could pick up seats, rather that spread DCCC money around to a far larger number of candidates in GOP controlled districts.

    Why Democrats won:

    1. National "Netroots" activism
    1. The creation of ActBlue
    1. The efforts of progressive politicians like Wesley Clark (WesPac) and Russ Feingold (Progressive Patriots Fund) to support grassroots candidates, and financial contributions of other progressive organizations and their membership.  
    1. Howard Dean's 50 State Strategy.
    1. Grassroots (including local "netroots") efforts (encouraged by the Dean strategy, as well as the victory of Ned Lamont in the Connecticut primary) which energized progressive grassroots activists nationwide.
    1. The number of scandals plaguing the GOP this election cycle

    Lukasiak concludes

    We can expect in 2008 that the GOP will be trying to come back with a vengeance-- and it is essential that someone who understands and appreciates the importance of grassroots in elections be placed in charge of the DCCC for the next election cycle. Rahm Emanuel has to go-- the GOP will still have the structural advantages that were the result of political gerrymandering, as well as an expected financial advantage. 2006 showed us how to win, and the lessons of 2006 must be carried forward if the Democratic Party is to remain the majority in the House.

    This is just an excerpt.  I encourage you to read the entire story.  

    Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

    by mini mum on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:11:27 PM PST

  •  Thanks McJoan. (0+ / 0-)

    As usual, excellent diary.

    I'm glad you brought Schumer's comments to the front page.  The contrast between him and Rahm/Carville is telling.

    We just need to remember this when Rahm comes asking for our money again.  We also need to support Dean.

    There is a fundamental issue here -- is the Party top/down or bottom/up?  The people who vote Democrat are the Party.  That's which side I am on.

  •  The seats we could/should have won (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Ajax the Greater

    CT-4
    PA-6
    NY-25
    NY-26
    NY-29
    NJ-7
    OH-1
    OH-2
    OH-15
    MI-7
    IL-6
    IL-10
    MN-6
    NC-8
    VA-2
    FL-8
    FL-13
    NE-2
    NE-3
    ID-1
    CO-4
    NM-1
    AZ-1
    NV-3
    CA-4
    WA-8

  •  "over coffee and rolls" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcjoan, jorndorff

    That sure sums it up.  He's like the worst navel-gazing blogger, except he sits and looks at his belly button with the press in tow.

    Move over, Assrocket!


    Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

    by Page van der Linden on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:12:41 PM PST

  •  carrying water (0+ / 0-)

    Ok, I've been wondering this for a long time... where does the term "carrying water" come from anyways?

    "now my foes tell me plainly I am an ass: so that by my foes, sir I profit in the knowledge of myself"

    by looty on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:13:20 PM PST

    •  Best answer I could find... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      looty

      From the Word Detective

      "To carry someone's water" seems to have appeared in the late 1970s in the figurative sense in which it is now most often used, and almost certainly sprang from sports, where the position of "water boy," charged with catering to the players' comfort (including supplying them with water and the like), is the lowest rung in the team hierarchy.

      Sounds good to me.

      I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. -- Thomas Jefferson [-4.25, -5.33]

      by GTPinNJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:24:28 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Interesting (0+ / 0-)

    that Schumer would include Bernie Sanders in that list since he isn't technically a Democrat.  Did the DSCC help Bernie out?

    Carville is a self-promoting hack.  I used to like that we had a plain spoken firebrand like him on our side.  But now all he can do is try to start a circular firing squad after one of the greatest Democratic victories in history, because apparently he isn't getting enough credit for it.

    I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. -- Thomas Jefferson [-4.25, -5.33]

    by GTPinNJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:13:21 PM PST

    •  Sanders won the Democratic primary in VT (0+ / 0-)
      and will caucus with Dems .  He has seat that Jeffords retired from.
      No ideas about DSCC money.  Sanders probably didn't need any.
      •  I realize that... (0+ / 0-)

        And I know most people treat Sanders as a Democrat.  I just thought it odd that he would include Sanders in the list when he isn't technically a Democrat & he could have mentioned Menendez or Brown as one of "our candidates" but didn't.

        I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. -- Thomas Jefferson [-4.25, -5.33]

        by GTPinNJ on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:14:57 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  By agreement no Democrat ran against him (0+ / 0-)

      so they backed him.  Sanders also had endorsements from Democrats.

  •  Congressman Rahm, Thank you... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder

    I want to thank him for his hard work.

    I think Kossacks here are just frustrated that they think you dont respect us for what we did too.  I hope that is not true.  

    I do not understand why Carville wants to  compete with us or Gov Dean.  This should not be a competition.  This should be a team work.  

  •  Is nowheredesign a pompous fusspot? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcjoan

    lol.. yea, but at least I know of one person who loves me anyway :)

    Great diary:

    My favorite point:

    "The diversity of our new Democratic majority shows that we have a big tent. "

    Damnous Straightious.

    Time #1000 Thanks, mcjoan, Kos, SusanG, et. al. for keeping this crucial point up top.

    :)

    ::::

    "Let's put a shoe in there!" ~ Haywood Nelson

    by nowheredesign on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:15:19 PM PST

  •  Asking people for their vote (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    campskunk, cosette

    Dean essentially called his strategy asking people for their vote. He stated on many occassions that the Democrats should not be afraid to ask for people's vote regardless where it is.
    If it were up to Carville, we would be contstantly fighting for the little blue squares we had until this election. This is about building a long-term legacy, of which Carville has no idea. The Democrats lost control in 1994. Is this his idea of winning?

    Mikhail Khaimov San Francisco, CA

    by Tsarrio on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:15:26 PM PST

  •  On calling Carville irrelevent: (6+ / 0-)

    Where does everyone think Carville is going to be for the entire year of 2008?  That's right: ass planted on seat in TV studios, tele-stumping for Hillary Clinton.  24/7.

    That is not to express an opinion on Clinton, one way or the other.  But we're gonna find out just how "irrelevent" Carville is once Clinton starts her run in earnest.

    And what do you suppose he'll be saying?  I have a guess.

    "In the beginning the universe was created. This has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

    by LithiumCola on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:15:36 PM PST

    •  and dangerous (6+ / 0-)

      He's dangerous for the populist agenda.  The Clinton's are still triangulating us more and more to the right.  The outcome of their trade agreements is fewer jobs in this country, no manufacturing base, and a highly inflated real estate market.  Joined with Bush's tax cuts and wars, their policies are backrupting us into irrelevancy.  Maybe it would be the best thing for this country to become a demised empire.  

      •  THIS is the issue! (0+ / 0-)

        The DLC doesn't want to have anything to do with the grass-roots except our money! We have to fight for our piece of this party - are we going to become insignificant in 2008, or will we build our momentum to further our gains in electing Populist, Progressive candidates in 2008?

        "The waging of war, by its nature, is total - but the waging of peace, by our own cowardice, is partial." -- Daniel Berrigan

        by Rico on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 06:48:48 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Did you see Rahm on Charlie Rose, a real (0+ / 0-)

    Americans have now seen what preemptive war looks like and they don't like it. American bombs fuel extremists.

    by mattes on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:17:33 PM PST

  •  millions of dollars spent/not spent (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette, kaye, Cottagerose

    anybody else here noticed how much money Hillary Clinton spent this year to defend a safe seat against an extremely weak opponent? A cool $36 million.

    Bob Casey, the next biggest spender among Dem Senate races, spent a mere $14 million by comparison. See this NYT chart.

    Anybody think she might have saved $10 or $20 million and handed it around to other Dems in tight races? I can't recall Carville discussing this issue, however.

  •  What link do you have? (0+ / 0-)

    I dont see any proof linking carville's statement to Rahm. I think its kind of shady to trace these comments back to Rahm for no reason and only clear him unless he grovel's to howard dean like you do. Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? If you keep disrespecting civil rights like that im going to start thinking youre a republican.

  •  Can we please please do something about Carville (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kaye

    How about flooding the email inboxes of whatever news shows interview him that he does NOT speak for the Democratic party, Democratic activists, or anyone else. Please can't we figure out a way to get him off the airwaves. Maybe we could flood him with emails that if he doesn't shut the fuck up, none of us will ever donate to any candidate he works for. I swear, the man is a nut job.

    Outlaw ALL robocalling. I want my phone back.

    by Grassroots Mom on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:19:13 PM PST

  •  Here is as good a place as any to say it, (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    rick, blogswarm, sardonyx, poemless
    so let me just say that the DCCC ads for Patty Wetterling against Michelle Bachmann were just TERRIBLE.  Truly awful ads that ran many, many times.  These ads cherry-picked some stray votes and claimed that Backmann was against some sex-offender bills or whatnot.  I forget the specifics, but the point is, the ads were an immense waste of money.  The DCCC does NOT know their audience.  Minnesotans are too smart to fall for that bullshit "Bachmann voted against locking up sex offenders BOOGEDY, BOOGEDY, BOOGEDY!".  Voters don't fall for that shit.  It was no wonder Wetterling couldn't make up ground.

    So if Carville wants to complain about hypothetical additional moneys that may have spent, I say, how about we start spending our damn money more wisely, and not broadcast horseshit ads like this that did nothing to help Patty Wetterling.  Was this type of crappy ad the template for others nationwide?  If so, then additional moneys towards races would have been worthless.

    In conclusion, let's firstly spend our money more WISELY and produce better, more effective ads that are tailored for the markets in which they air..... rather than throwing out money willy-nilly with BS ads like the Wetterling one which produced zero positive effects.

  •  Thank you. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcjoan
    Maybe Rahm shiould have a mathemetician check his numbers.

    It took the netroots to shame safe incumbents into contributing.

    If we had gone with Rahm's plan, we'd still be in the minority.

    Rahm had plenty money, but wanted the DNC to fork over more for his loserish plan.

    Sorry, Rahm. we won in spite of you.  Kiss my ass.

    "Booyaa!" Howard Dean

    by x on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:20:37 PM PST

    •  Didya know Bowers first incumbent-shaming post ... (0+ / 0-)
      ... was directly inspired by Carville's public call-out of Dean?

      And "Rahm had plenty money"? Who in their right mind ever thinks a campaign has plenty money?

      None Dare Call It Stupid!

      by RonK Seattle on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 02:32:10 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sorry Carville, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PLS, blogswarm, kaye

    but Dean was too busy not having coffee and rolls to listen to your bald jerk face.

  •  Carville has some books to sell (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blogswarm

    And with these dumbass statements of his he can try to get his shiny dome on TV and sell his worthless book. My favorite moment of 11/7 was Carville and Begala (joined by Bill Bennett and JC Watts) on MSNBC pontificating about the night's still-pending results after the Dems had already picked up three Senate seats (and held NJ). Following Bennett's and Watt's predictions that there was no way the Dems could win the Senate, Begala also chimed in and emphatically stated that there was no way the Dems would get the other 3 seats they needed to take control. He and Carville were just so damned sure of themselves. Smug bastards.

    And, yes, Carville needs to start selling his book in order to catch up with Markos.

    Crashing the Gate: Netroots, Grassroots, and the Rise of People-Powered Politics (Hardcover)
    by Jerome Armstrong, Markos Moulitsas Zuniga

    Amazon.com Sales Rank: #15,210 in Books

    Had Enough?: A Handbook for Fighting Back (Hardcover)
    by James Carville, Jeff Nussbaum "

    Amazon.com Sales Rank: #79,402 in Books

  •  I hear Emmanuel (0+ / 0-)

    is a pretty hardcore bigot.  Hates Muslims, hates poor people.  He's genuinely pretty hated on the Hill (even though people think he is smart, in some ways).

    His brother is Ari Emmanuel, the basis for Ari Gold on "Entourage"...

  •  All you're doing is giving Carville more help (0+ / 0-)

    Giving him free publicity everywhere, and implying that his beliefs must be very high on the list of those who are in charge of the DCCC.

    I think all the money spent on IL-6 was a mistake, but then, as much as I wish Grant or Kleeb or Trauner had won, I doubt those seats would have stayed Democratic. There's a good chance that more DC money flowing into those races would have just caused more people in those areas to vote for the Republican.

    Neither side is perfect. All of this about the horrors of one side and the genius of the other side doesn't do much good, unless it's about jockeying for bragging rights or being upset because some candidates in very red areas lost.

    •  No (4+ / 0-)

      I'm repudiating this stupid and destructive open war with Dean. Emanuel's public fight with Dean has been a problem for months, and there is no place for it. And no place for Carville and his gigantic maw in the debate.

      Neither of this side is perfect, you are right. And one side declaring open war on the other is destructive, it's inappropriate, it's infuriating. Win graciously and move on working together for 2006.

      "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

      by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:34:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I respect your opinion, but (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        cosette

        I don't think that this diary repudiates any war. It just continues the ongoing grudge match. I don't really know if Rahm is behind what Carville said, and in the end, that matters less than the reaction to what Carville says. Rahm himself isn't saying anything. Some rabid old dog is out there - that means the leaders of the Democratic Party do not feel comfortable in openly attacking Dean at this point. That means Dean's position at the DNC is secure. The party secured historic wins under his watch. I'm sure that Dean can handle any bitching from Rahm.

        Carville can go on TV and say whatever he wants. He has limited influence in who really listens to him. What he can do is drive the narrative of the election wins. And that's what he's doing when 50000 diaries show up every time he makes an assholish comment.

        If people are waiting for a day when no Democrats will go on TV and take a shot at Dean, or when Democrats will go around saying they want to have Howard Dean's babies, that will never happen. Dean's supporters have known all along that many Democratic insiders hate and fear him. That's never going to change. Dean probably knows this is never going to change. All he can make them do is respect him.

        I think he did that with his helping with the big wins this year.

        I don't think the 50000 "You're mean to Dean! You suck! I'm gonna pay you back by talking about Tammy Duckworth. We would have lost thanks to you, Rahm!! Ha ha!!!" type of diaries really help Dean much at all. They come across as petty and as being more about the diarist and their need to "protect" Dean (who is more than capable of taking care of himself) than about the actual election results or the power struggle in the party. There's a very "me me me me" tone to these diaries.

        I don't think your diary comes across that way, but the problem is many, many other people on many, many websites and blogs have written diaries and stories on this subject. Eventually it just becomes a feeding frenzy and does Dean far more harm than good.

  •  Us against Them (0+ / 0-)

    If "Us" is people who want to change our government back into something that vaguely resembles sane and responsible, then "Them" stands for entrenched members of the self-serving old boy's network that has made Washington a dangerous mockery of what the Founders intended.

    Although we've been understandably focusing on Republicans this election cycle, nobody represents the entrenched demockery better than Joe Lieberman. There are plenty of close seconds, including Chuck Schumer. Most of them are in the notorious DLC (not just a rap group anymore).

    These guys should be our next target in '08.

    HAVE THE HEARINGS STARTED YET?

    by jimbo92107 on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:27:20 PM PST

  •  Isn't it Obvious What Is Happening? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joemcginnissjr

    The dinosaur Dems are just trying to take credit, as if this was all their plan.  They are trying to keep the netroots out of the picture.  These are the Hillary Clinton backing, machine Democrats.  This is a simple power play.  In truth, they fucked up and they are trying to show just the opposite.

  •  Ever think you'd ever agree with J.C. Watts? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    cosette

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/...

    DEAN: Thanks for having me on, Larry.

    KING: That's Howard Dean, the Chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

    How's he done, Wolf?

    BLITZER: Well, there's controversy. Some Democrats think he's done a fabulous job. Others, like Rahm Emanuel, who runs the House Democratic Committee to try to get Democrats elected in the House, are not very happy because what he's trying to do, Howard Dean, is get Democrats active in all 50 states.

    Whereas, someone like Rahm Emanuel has a more immediate objective of getting Democrats elected in some key states right now and they want to spend a lot of money in Ohio and Pennsylvania and Howard Dean has wanted to spend money in Mississippi and Alabama, states where some of the other Democrats think they don't have much of a shot. But he's wanted the Democratic Party to be a 50-state party. So, there's controversy there and I don't think there's, and James can correct me, any love lost between Howard Dean and Rahm Emanuel is that right?

    CARVILLE: I think that Wolf has given a typical, accurate assessment of the situation that exists in the Democratic Party today and I don't wish to comment any further.

    (CROSSTALK)

    KING: As we go to break...

    WATTS: James, do you get along with anybody in your party?

    I'm sure this one's old news at this point, but I thought it was worth a revisit.

  •  wow (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    NDakotaDem

    Some of you guys have had way too much of the "DC party elite are evil" kool-aid.

    Ignoring interest groups and running a candidate based on whats matters most for the people? Carville 1992

    Having the party compete in all 50 states? Look at page 7 of Carville's new book.

    I know its easy to just bash anyone who makes a controversial statement and doesn't hail Dean, but give me a break people. Dean is not an all powerful entity and not all DC consultants are sell outs. I'd disagree when Carville says Dean should be fired, but he's making the point all of us have been making all along - MORE MONEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPENT ON THIRD TIER RACES. THE DCCC DIDN'T HAVE IT, AND THE DNC DID.

    Should Dean be fired for this? Of course not. But Carville wants to win and he thinks that Dean cost the party at an extra dozen seats. So move beyond the "every DC consultant is a political hack and Howard Dean is our lord and savior" mindset and see what Carville is actually saying.

    Now bring on the bashing.

    •  At the very least.. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      mcjoan, lawnorder, rabel

      ..Carville should have discussed that internally. He has the contacts to make his point privately in the Democratic Party.

      Instead, he seems to be going for every opportunity to air his dirty laundry publicly.

      At least Dean has more class and doesn't do that. And nor seem most of the other players. But Carville deems it necessary to shoot off his mouth in public. That is damaging, and does not speak well of him at all.

      I do not have my own blog.

      by Frank on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:45:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  How about the races we lost by less than 5% (0+ / 0-)

      That Rahm fought supporting tooth and nail all the way.  He blew it.  We could have won way more seats.  He totally blew it.  Some of those races could have be seriously influenced with a couple of hundred thousand each.  Bill Clinton sent out a solictation note for the DCCC saying that NO CANDIDATE WOULD LOSE FOR A LACK OF MONEY.  Well, guess what?  Some of them did.  I don't for one second believe that the DCCC didn't have enough money or access to enough money to run ads in those races.

  •  Carville sucks (0+ / 0-)

    Carville and Begala are the worst.  Not only do they fully support Lierberman, but Begala was on CNN on election night saying, "I'm not confident the Democrats will take the Senate".  We all weren't, but the way he said it like he was cheering for the RNC.

    Those two are utterly convinced that moving towards the center is the only smart strategy in politics.  They are deseperate not to be proved wrong and want to stay in the game so they can supress anyone who gives voice to the left wing of the Democratic Party.  Only a matter of time before they start dissing Pelosi.

    30 seats gained in House, unexpected 6 seats in Senate.  Yet DNC failed and Rove just "miscalculated".  Gotta love the MSM, I won't hold my breath to hear Rahm come to Dean's defense.

  •  Is this a leadership poll? (0+ / 0-)

    Where can I vote yes?

  •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

    Although Carville isn't Rahm's sock-puppet so much as they are working in tandem to undermine Dean, both for their own reasons.

  •  It isn't all their doing. (0+ / 0-)

    Congratulations to the Democrats, and let's all hope that at least some of them mean at least some of what they say.

    But . . .

    As one of over 100,000 volunteers with MoveOn.org who made over SEVEN MILLION calls getting out the progressive/liberal voters in 50 districts nationwide, I have to say that giving all the credit to ANY Democrat is rediculous.

    The real hero of this election for the Democratic party, I'm beginning to realize, is George Bush.  Without the disasters he (with help from Cheney, Rove, Rummie, Wolfie, Brownie, Condie, and Gonzales) generated over the last six years, Democrats would never have had the success they did this election.

    With all the crap in the cable yell shows parroting the RNC line that people needed something to vote for, or they can't vote Democratic, we all know that's BS.  A huge chunk of the Democratic vote was AGAINST the Republicans, and that's it.  As well, MoveOn and many other campaigns would never have gotten off the ground without an overwhelming groundswell of people who had to do something to get these clowns out of office, and at least limit the damage from the WH for the next two years.

    So all the Dems patting themselves on the back, take note.  The only way you can keep the votes you got this year, and build on them, is to carry out your agenda, bring some rationality to Washington, get the troops out of the shooting gallery called Iraq, and sharply limit W's power grab.

    Impeach Cheney!!!!

    C. David Noziglia Alexandria, Virginia

    by Noziglia on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:43:50 PM PST

  •  Why do we react just because Carville speaks? (0+ / 0-)

    In some other comment today, someone stated that he's the spokesperson for the DLC.  Well, over at the DLC website, he's not listed as a staff member and a search of his name only yields a few references to him in articles.

    So, where's the evidence that he speaks in an official capacity for anyone?  Let's ignore this bloviator.

  •  Carville seems to be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cathy

    trying to sow discord in the ranks.

    He's no friend of Rahm.  Go back and read the Tribune article on Rahm.  Rahm is quoted as shouting at Carville for telling him to stop the attack ads.  

    Later, Rahm's staff are quoted saying "Can we change the number here so he quits calling?" (he being Carville)

    There's no conspiracy here.  Carville is being a thorn in everybody's side.  Perhaps he's working for Hillary, perhaps he's playing his own angle, perhaps he's an RNC mole.  

    Regardless, the sooner we disassociate with Carville, the better.  He's a cancer.

    We won! We won! Thank god almighty! We won!

    by Jerry 101 on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:46:33 PM PST

  •  I don't think Carville is (0+ / 0-)

    Rahm's sock puppet because this trashtalking has been going on for too long.  I think it's personal.  About what, I have no idea.  

    I gotta tell you, this is burning my butt biggums.  I very rarely comment here, but this is something I want to be heard about: Carville! Rahm! STFU!  

  •  Plans within plans. (0+ / 0-)

    McJoan, darlin':

    Carville's carrying water for one person: James Carville.

    He gets more mojo, scalp moisturizer, money and power if Howard - and by implication, the netroots and those of us who are tired of DC fatcats trying to run our party into the ground - is gone.

    The incidental beneficiary of this might be Hillary, might be Rahm, might be other people, but the primary butt that Mr. Carville is looking out for is his own.

    I used to think he married so far beneath him.

    Now I know better.

  •  'Bad Cop'? Emperor's New Clothes? JC has the facts (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ipl
    ... on his side, self-evidently, for anyone who cares to call a spade a spade, but it's not OK to say it.

    As someone posted yesterday, 70K votes in the right places would have won an extra 18 seats.

    As somebody else pointed out yesterday, the field-level coordinated campaigns don't seem to have been better coordinated or more effective than the previous cycle [though the case is still open to evidence-based argument].

    As Howard Dean pointed out, the 50 State Strategy wasn't built to produce wins this year, and there was an explictly-stated trade-off between 2006 results and building for the future.

    As nobody here can acknowledge, Dean turned a deliberately cold shoulder to Election 2006 ... until October 18, after Carville publicly called him out.

    But anybody who says this must be an imbecile, or unfit for his job. Rahm can't say it. Chuck can't say it.

    I guess only Carville - who gladly plays the fool and doesn't have a job - can say it.

    Is Chuck playing "Good Cop"? I don't know ... but I do know enough not to take praise and thanks from professional pols at face value. Don't you?

    None Dare Call It Stupid!

    by RonK Seattle on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:50:38 PM PST

  •  I would listen to Carville why? (0+ / 0-)

    If his judgment was better, he wouldn't sleep with a winger.

    Cry "Mandate!" and let slip the hounds of accountability.

    by sagra on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 12:50:54 PM PST

  •  decentralization (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    PLS, orthogonal, kaye

    The fifty state strategy is inherently dangerous to those who wish to control the Democratic Party from the top. A truism.

    This would be the case even if Carville/Emanuel were not carrying water for Hilary Clinton. Many consequences arise from a strong perimeter, and most of these consequences are not palatable to DLC/centralizers. Influence in selecting candidates is one, since ultimately this determines the makeup of elected Democratic politicians. Fundraising, and the control/blackmail that ensues is another.

    This will be an ongoing struggle, and the Emanuels and their Carvillesque factotums will not give up, since it means shifting some control of the Democratic Party away from the DLC.

  •  Did you forget (0+ / 0-)

    also all the money spent on the Ford Losing campaign, a direct result of their hand picking Ford and not letting the primary play its self out. State Senator Kurita could have won - maybe - but we will never know now thanks to the meddling and hand picking of candidates.

  •  Carville has an uncontrolled mouth. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder

    I guess that is why Cheney likes to keep Mary Matilin close by, it can't be because she is brilliant.

  •  the thing that cost (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    lawnorder

    us the presidency, congress, were attacked on 9/11 etc was because our party is never unified and is full of people who will sell out for short term gain.
    in addition we have a tendency to fragment into virulent special interest groups who will only focus on their one issue. just look at the nineties.

    it is axiomatic that demo's eat their own before they attack others. is there any way around this?

  •  Washington-centrism (0+ / 0-)

    I can agree that many "Washington insiders" like Carville don't really think about state houses, governor's seats, etc.  As a former Hill staffer, I can relate to that somewhat -- when you're in the trenches down there, all you care about is how many seats you have in the House or Senate -- not about whether some Democrat in Podunk won a statehouse seat.

    But Carville should know better.  He's not an idiot -- and he should know that the state party infrastructure that Dean's 50-state approach is helping build in places where Democrats previously feared to tread is ENORMOUSLY important on a national level.  In the long term, it enhances the probability of us being able to win Congressional and Senate seats in those areas.  And perhaps even more importantly, as we have learned, control of a state legislature often means control of the districting process.  I personally would hope that Dems wouldn't use their power to perpetrate unfair gerrymanders (though we've certainly done it in the past), but at the very least we can use that power to make sure that a districting process is fair.  And ultimately, districting makes an enormous difference in who controls the power in D.C.  So I'd gladly trade a few seats in the House now for control of state legislatures.  I don't quite get why Carville is being so myopic.

  •  Just because Rahm is such a glory hound, (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    poemless

    doesn't mean we should get all touchy feely fuzzy about Schumer.  He wasn't jumping on the Tester bandwagon at first.  Few were.  But boy are they piling on the Brown (remember Hackett?), Tester, Webb train now.  It will be a long time before I look at Schumer with any kind of love. He's still a corporatist in my book.  I don't trust him.
    But he's much smoother than Rahm and doesn't prance.

    "It's time to rein in the rascals and rotate the crop"

    by MontanaMaven on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:09:00 PM PST

  •  Could also be Carville advertising himself to GOP (0+ / 0-)

    He knows no Democrat that isn't deaf, dumb and blind will ever listen to him anymore. Time to go to "the dark side".

    Which by now is desperate for some tips on how did the Dems "do it".

    Stay the Course will be their epitaph

    by lawnorder on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:10:17 PM PST

  •  *** 49 STATE STRATEGY *** (0+ / 0-)

    And CT got f**ked in the deal.

  •  Because of Hillary? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MontanaMaven

    Maybe Carville wants to get rid of Dean to help Hillary and her presidential aspirations?

    •  DLC & insiders Hate the 50 state strategy (0+ / 0-)

      They hate the grass roots movment.  It is not as controllable as they would like. Also As grass roots Democrats become emboldened, then Republicans who haven't had to work hard here in red states start to organize again. The insiders think that is bad. But that's democracy and it's messier than aristocracy.  They would prefer that we activists out here just tow the line and get out the vote and shut up and not make too much noise in between elections.  Just lick stamps.  
      Well, we don't want to just lick stamps.  We want to tell Washington who we like and we want to be a vibrant part of our community and the discussion of what's best for it.

      Also,  The dissing of Dean here in Montana continues and continues to annoy me and make me more determined to make the 50 state strategy work. Let the games begin.

      "It's time to rein in the rascals and rotate the crop"

      by MontanaMaven on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:34:51 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  look (0+ / 0-)

    You cannot, CANNOT, as you do, simply point at results and declare that this or that strategy is the cause.  That's complete nonsense.  

    The question on the 50 state strategy comes down to what you think the coordinated campaigns and ads actually accomplished on the ground.  What was their organization like?  How many volunteers, calls, doors, and such did they really knock out?  How effective were any ads or events they pushed?  State party efforts vary WIDELY in their quality: we can't just assume that because they got a bunch of coordinated dollars that they spent it sensibly and delivered results.  This is research we have to get into directly.  

  •  I just got to dKos now.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    churchylafemme

    ...it's morning in New Zealand.

    I'm currently scrolling down the frontpage and voting in the leadership polls.

    I wanted to vote yes on this one, but I can't seem to find the poll.

    ;-)

    -5.75 -4.72 3.14159 2.71828

    by xynz on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:14:36 PM PST

  •  The quote from Schumer is sticking in my craw (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MontanaMaven, Jacks Mom

    mcjoan- you quoted him from his recommended diary where he claimed that

    Friday night I was on the Bill Maher show and talked about what a great job Dean has been doing at the DNC.  The DNC helped out at a crucial time financially and organizationally that helped put us over the top.

    and I have to say that was a mischaracterization of his own earlier statement on Bill Maher.  He did not say what a great job Dean has been doing- for the record he said "good job", he said “Dean did a good job for us”...”Howard Dean and I don’t have any problem”...  “should get some of the credit for the victory”.  When I watched the Bill Maher show Schumer's statements struck me very much as conciliatory praise and I sensed it was not easy for him to say that much.  Now that may seem petty to point out but his tone and the way he said it gave it meaning, you can't just tell from the text.  It most certainly did not come across to me as enthusiastic, whole-hearted, or generous praise.  Just had to say it cuz his mischaracterization of it struck me as pandering to our interests and not reflective of, ya know that reality thing.  

    " `Don't rock the boat'...that's a losing strategy."-Russ Feingold 6-3-06

    by Susan Something on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:24:13 PM PST

  •  Repeat after me (0+ / 0-)

    Carville is a Republican mole, always has been and always will be.  Traitor.

    The GOP: It's What's For Dinner

    by Tlacolotl on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:24:15 PM PST

  •  The 1 thing consultant Carville can prove he does (0+ / 0-)

    He can get on television.

    Lots of television.

    He still has his rolodex.

    He's been the magician's hanky to distract from Emanuel's too-soon self-congratulation--

    But that means he's "employable".

    So it would seem that most of this has been an ad for how much exposure Carville can still generate. For potential clients.

    "To such thinking you have only to say 'the land you loved is doomed' to excuse any treachery, indeed to glorify it." -Tolkien, On Fairy-Stories, 1938.

    by Yamara on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:33:17 PM PST

  •  Hillary Spent $30M on Senate Race w/No Opp (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Lois
    OK, she techically had an opponent.  But her re-election was as endangered as the squirrel population in the suburbs.

    Yet she spent $30 million on her re-election campaign.  She'd have been re-elected if she'd spent $2 million and kept the rest in the bank.

    Yet Carville's mad at Dean for not forking over $6M to win those third-tier races that Carville never did anything to boost in the first place.

    Fuck you, Carville.  And fuck you, Hillary.  We'll get a real Dem to run in '08, thankyewverymuch.

    "It means that we can't be scared out of who we are. And that's victory, folks." -- Lt. Cmdr. Charles Swift

    by RT on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:49:20 PM PST

    •  Disgusting --- she could have donated $20 million (0+ / 0-)

      to helping rebuild the lower 9th Ward in New Orleans -- instead she chose to try to intimidate would-be challengers to her in 08 by saying, "look - i can blow $30 million and not blink."

      Sick. It's all about power and ego for her.

  •  Support Dean by supporting the DNC (0+ / 0-)

    IF you can afford it, consider a contribution to the DNC. Building up infrastructure continues. So if you like Dean's strategy, consider a gift.

    Also, I set up a bat to specifically target the contribution through a collection that says "Thank You, Howard Dean."

    http://www.democrats.org/...

  •  Remarkable. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cathy

    As I've watched this percalate over the past few days I have just been astounded at how lame this whole thing is. At a time when we should have been celebrating an amazing victory we had an excellant Democrat start a fucking war.

    Say what you will about Carville but he is an excellant Democrat. "We're Right, They're wrong" crystalises the party in a way that 99% of the people here would agree with.

    One thing that has agravated me more than anything else about my party is our ability to start civil wars over the most asinine things. It reminds me of the sand box wars of my early youth.

    "I was Rambo in the disco. I was shootin' to the beat. When they burned me in effigy. My vacation was complete." Neil Young. Mideast Vacation.

    by Mike S on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 01:56:19 PM PST

  •  Mon-effing-tana, Carville. (0+ / 0-)

    Would you have gone after it at all?

  •  Carville + Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    joemcginnissjr

    The only thing he is doing imo is working it for Hillary! It is ALL ABOUT HER!
    Everywhere you turn it's...will she or won't she? They have already annointed her as the frontrunner. She has millions and her Hilpac has donated lots to other dems.
    She will run make no mistake about it. I am certain that without an incumbent, that she would feel this is her best shot. A lot of people feel she is the one to beat.
    And just watch, when she throws her hat in the ring, the media will be...Hillary, Hillary, Hillary 24/7.
    It will be a fait acompli.
    Anyone wanna bet me??
    Thoughts?

  •  Carvelle Needs to Keep His Cajun Mouth Shut (0+ / 0-)

    Any alleged Democrat who will host, with his Repugnican bitch wife, a fund raiser to help pay the legal bills for Scooter Libby has absolutely no credibility. I wish the bald bastard would step in front of an Orange Line train tomorrow and make it easier for more people to breathe easier. He's a disgrace and has minus 4 credibility. What Carvelle says was probably implanted through osmosis while sleeping with that ugly thing he's married to.  Fuck you Jim.  

    "I think I may need a bathroom break. Is this possible?" - Love note from Dumbya to Condi

    by Curlew on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 03:04:18 PM PST

  •  Dean's Call to Build a 50 State Infrastructure (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Malacandra

    is anathema to a political operative like James Carville.

    Carville broke into Washington D.C. as a good ole outsider with Bill Clinton but, over the years, he's become a mega-insider along with Begala and Matalin.  Anything that disrupts the status quo inside the Beltway threatens Carville's ability to continue to earn a super living off of all the wanna-bes.

    A 50 state party, using the talents and energy of people in local and state structures, would significantly weaken the power of operatives like Carville who depend upon the ebb and flow of campaign cycles to feed their bank accounts.

    Carville and the other pros act like pundits and political soothsayers.  They go on to the cable news channels intimating they have super-secret information and insider status - And so they get mega-bucks to consult and comment, throwing down their bones in a rather superstitious and hocusy-pocusy sort of magical thinking way, with bunches of winks and twinkles and nudges.

    The nuts and bolts of solid infrastructure would make their house of cards (all bells and whistles is Carville) look pretty flimsy, wouldn't it?

  •  Shumer Doesn't Like 50-State Strategy (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    RonK Seattle

    I don't where Kos Got that Shumer liked the 50-state strategy from or that Shumer said it helped in this election.  
    http://www.observer.com/...

    Certainly, the party wasn’t united behind Mr. Schumer’s election strategy this year. He championed a traditional approach: directing the bulk of the party’s financial and logistical resources toward handpicked candidates in a few competitive races. Howard Dean, who heads the Democratic National Committee, advocated a “50-state strategy,” spreading money around toward the longer-term goal of making the party viable even in areas that have been Republican strongholds.

    After the victory—the Democrats picked up six Republican-held seats and defended every Democratic one—Mr. Schumer hardly seemed ready to concede the point.

    “Fifty-state is a good thing to do, but it didn’t help us in this election,” said Mr. Schumer. “My only disagreement with Howard is that he should help us fund taking back the majority, because it would make a difference with things like the Supreme Court. And he came through—he ended up giving us $7.5 million. We tried the honey approach rather than the vinegar approach, and it worked.”

  •  Keep it up, Kossacks! (0+ / 0-)

    Your collective sniveling and whining will give aid and comfort to Rove and his giant, pulsating brain, in attempting to wrest victory in 2008 from disaster in 2006.  Guess what, the progs and the regs were both right in how they ran 2006 and both Dem sides will need each other in 2008.  So hold your nose and smile.

    Larry - "Fish is brain food." Moe - "Oh yeah? Well you oughtta eat a whale!" SMACK!!!

    by vegancannibal on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 05:21:59 PM PST

  •  What about Ford (0+ / 0-)

    Didn't Carville want to replace Dean with Harold Ford?  It seems to me that that's why he's undermining Dean publicly.  Ironically, he's taking credit for the fifty state strategy when his friend Begala was very critical of it a while back (there was the quote about hiring a guy in MS to pick his nose).  

    I think that what's been said about Carville and Hillary in the comments is pretty accurate.  Is Ford a big Hillary supporter?  I wouldn't have thought so.  I wonder how it all fits together.  

    •  I don't think Carville asked Ford (0+ / 0-)

      One of Dean's responses included the fact that he had personally called Ford the night before and been told "not interested". Moreover, Ford came out with that to the press.

      I thought the Ford suggestion was off the wall - he doesn't strike me as any kind of administrative type, nor does he have all that much experience to be DNC chair. Especially as a fund raiser. Dean had been running a presidential race on top of being Governor.

  •  Seems to me (0+ / 0-)

    Carville is an Emanuel apologist. Rahm can't have it both ways. It was clearly documented that Emanuel (and Carville/Begala) refuted Dean's 50-state strategy. Rahm had better start playing ball, 'cause he's headed far out on a limb from where there will be no redemption. Reach out to Dean as he has reached out (and credited) you and Schumer. Turns out you were both right, though Dean was more right in laying the groundwork for '08 and beyond.

    "Fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again." --George W. Bush

    by RevJoe on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 05:26:51 PM PST

  •  He sees a threat to Hillary (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jacks Mom

    He either thinks Dean is running or Gore and either would stand her way. The war will do her and almost every one out there now. WE NEED A REAL CANDIDATE

  •  Carville needs to reinvent himself (0+ / 0-)

    He's a talented, funny and usually insightful guy, who is very helpful and useful as a character on our team.
    But there's a new world of interactive politics being born, Web2.0 politics, and he doesn't get it that it matters if you get it.
    Someone should pour some ice water over his shiny top and rebaptize him, infuse him with the new vision.

  •  Will somebody please steal CaRville's cell phone (0+ / 0-)

    WE are who we have been waiting for.

    by furiouschads on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 06:38:58 PM PST

  •  mcjoan, the abortion issue (0+ / 0-)

    mcjoan, Bob Casey is Pro-Life. That is, he is against any and all abortions. How does that sit with you?

    mcjoan, are the Democrats ready to concede the abortion issue as a lost cause?

    •  I'm not sure what that has to do with (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MissLaura

      this story or anything in it, but ok.

      It doesn't sit well with me at all. But he's on Banking and Agriculture. He's not on any committees where his views on abortion will come up.

      If he doesn't try to legislate his views, I can deal.

      And I hardly think Bob Casey's election is a sign that the party has abandoned abortion rights.

      "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

      by Joan McCarter on Wed Nov 15, 2006 at 10:13:37 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  50-state strategy catalyst for abortion debate (0+ / 0-)

        mcjoan, your story [above] about Carville and the 50-state strategy has everything to do with abortion. In your story, you suggested that Dean encouraged the DNC to throw away money in states that pro-choice candidates didn't have a snowball chance in hell of winning -- the 50-state strategy. More likely, Dean stole a page from the Republican playbook that has enabled Dean to claim that his 50-state strategy was solely responsible for helping elect anti-abortion Democratic candidates and thereby giving the Democrats a majority in both houses of Congress.

        mcjoan, if you want to repudiate Carville by giving credit to Dean for the success of Democrats electing pro-life candidates, then you must also be willing to accept your own responsibility for moving the Democrats closer to the anti-abortion side of the debate. In Dean's 50-state strategy, the Democrats were required to put forward pro-life candidates in order for the Democrats to have any chance of success outside of the Northeastern states -- excluding Pennsylvania.

        mcjoan, you also claim that the Democrats have muzzled Bob Casey which satisfies you. But what about Casey. Is Casey satisfied with his muzzle? So long as Casey keeps his mouth shut, you are content with the status quo. But, you are deluding yourself that everything is okay within the Democratic majorities in Congress. If pro-life Democrats are muzzled on the abortion debate as you want, the pressure on the pro-life Democrats from their conservative constituents will build up beneath the Democratic Party's majority landscape. Your contempt for Carville is the catalyst that will caused the earthquake that splits the Democrats along the Democratic Party's abortion faultline.

        mcjoan, which do you want most, Democrats as the majority party in Congress or a pro-choice Democratic party? You can't have both. Quick, make a decision as the 2008 elections are quickly approaching.

        •  Wow (0+ / 0-)

          That's a pretty far-reaching interpretation of Dr. Dean's efforts. It's in fact the only interpretation I've seen of an abortion-centric 2006 campaign. Got any evidence to back any of it up?

          "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

          by Joan McCarter on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 03:37:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The evidence is the 2006 election. (0+ / 0-)

            See my response to your second posted comment as to Dean's personal involvement. In summation, how many newly elected anti-abortion Democrats were elected to office as a result of the 2006 election?

            •  Tell you what (0+ / 0-)

              You provide to me the list of newly elected members of congress who have issued anti-choice statements or have them on their issues papers, with links to those statements and we can have this discussion.

              "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

              by Joan McCarter on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 09:35:39 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  mcjoan, I have the list. (0+ / 0-)

                mcjoan, what is your problem? Why do I need to jump through all these hoops just to have a discussion?

                What do you want with a list of newly elected anti-abortion Democrats? Let's assume that for now that Casey is at the top of this list.

                Has Dean been spreading rumors about how great he is? Is this what this is all about?

                Or you a Christian Conservative Republican pretending to be a pro-abortion Democrat?

                •  Oh, bullshit (0+ / 0-)

                  I don't know where you got this fiction of an evil Dean who wants to take abortion rights away, but it's a figment of your imagination. You are throwing around accusations without providing any evidence and now making inflammatory accusations. Take it elsewhere.

                  "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

                  by Joan McCarter on Fri Nov 17, 2006 at 06:12:12 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I have the list that you requested (0+ / 0-)

                    Do I need to post names. Please tell me what you want. I can always send each one of them an e-mail with your comments about how the Democratic Party should muzzle them.

              •  mcjoan, wapo proves my point (0+ / 0-)

                mcjoan, Washington Post article about Blue Dog Democrats proves my point.

                Boehner, Blunt Picked To Lead GOP in House - washingtonpost_com
                http://www.washingtonpost.com/...

                Boehner, Blunt Picked To Lead GOP in House
                Conservative Activists Rejected in Vote
                By Shailagh Murray and Jonathan Weisman
                Washington Post Staff Writers
                Saturday, November 18, 2006; Page A01

                Some House Republicans may try to outflank the Democratic leadership by joining with moderate-to-conservative Democrats in the "Blue Dog" caucus to form a center-right coalition, according to Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.).

                "The Blue Dog Democrats are going to have to defend the platform they ran on -- pro-life, small government, the like,"
                © 2006 The Washington Post Company

                •  Waaa? (0+ / 0-)

                  Some House Republicans may try to outflank the Democratic leadership by joining with moderate-to-conservative Democrats in the "Blue Dog" caucus to form a center-right coalition, according to Rep. Jack Kingston (R-Ga.).

                  "The Blue Dog Democrats are going to have to defend the platform they ran on -- pro-life, small government, the like,"

                  This is your idea of proof that Dean wants to overturn Roe? Defending this position is what Democrats have done since Roe was decided in the SC.

                  Your entire article was about the Republicans trying to maintain some power. Dean wasn't mentioned.

                  You are going to have to do better than this.

        •  Oh, and btw (0+ / 0-)

          Dean is pro-choice. The candidates I listed above, pro-choice.

          "I have a philosophy about elections. I believe issues divide and values unite."--Gov. Brian Schweitzer

          by Joan McCarter on Thu Nov 16, 2006 at 06:04:41 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Which pro-choice candidates did Dean help elect? (0+ / 0-)

            Which pro-choice candidates from west of Ohio and south of Maryland did Dean help elect?

            How many freshman Representatives and Senators are pro-life? How many pro-life candidates did Dean help elect through his 50-state strategy? Don't you think that it is odd that pro-abortion Dean helped to elect anti-abortion candidates? Maybe Dean is not as pro-abortion as you think. That Dean is willing to sell out the pro-choice Democrats to capture the Democratic Presidential nomination in 2008.

  •  Carville should go for a career change. (0+ / 0-)

    Playing Lord Voldemort in the Harry Potter movies comes to mind.

    Mostly I don't understand why he had to go public with this first. Perhaps he could have talked with some other folks - even those he knew might disagree - before he had to make it look like there was really some kind of discussion about this - other than his.

  •  James Carville (0+ / 0-)

    James Carville attacking Howard Dean is senseless until one looks deeper. Isnt he doing the same thing that Rahm has been doing to Howard Dean all along, undermining Dean. And are these patterns of behavior driven on behalf of  Hillary I wonder? Hmmmm.

  •  Don't trust anyone... (0+ / 0-)

    who would call Mary Matalin his better half! Someone should tell that gurl to stop sucking on lemons before she implodes.

    James? He's fun at parties, just be sure to pack away the breakables for the duration.

  •  What does that mean? (0+ / 0-)

    The phrase "carrying water" for somebody?  That's about the 200th time I have heard it referred to either directly or indirectly about the mid-term elections, and I was just wondering where it originated.  I understand the context in which it is being used.  I just want to know where and by whom it was first used, and what did it originally refer to?  I am guessing some smart boy or girl will tell me that it was has something to do with farmers.  I am looking forward to finding out, though.  I also hope it is not becoming another trendy phrase that will get beaten to death by every half assed political pundit lucky enough to get an audience.  Remember gems like, "The metrics of this hotly contested race..." or "The political structure of this race indicates....".  Blah, blah, blah.  There's something to be said for good old straight talk, don't you think?  

  •  Tertiary damage (0+ / 0-)

    In my mind, the name Carville will always be linked to the name Clinton, and the more he pops off about Dean (and by proxy, the netroots), the less I'm intrigued with a Hillary run. And any candidate that has support of Carville will automatically send me looking elsewhere with my financial support.

  •  There are donkeys and mules (0+ / 0-)

    But Carville is part of the braying ass faction of the Democratic party.

  •  threatened (0+ / 0-)

    Rahm must feel very threatened by Howard Dean-Dean is so smart, efficient and likable and he comes across as very genuine. Rahm comes across as a slick, not very honest pol. What does Carville do, anyway, besides make appearances on corporate TV shows? ANd why is he married to the witch in Sleeping Beauty?

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