Bobby

I went with my family to see the film Bobby last night. The reviews have been mixed, but I think the film is worth seeing if only for the wonderful footage of RFK and the chance to hear to his actual voice.

More thoughts below the fold.

The screenplay does capture the fever pitch emotion of those weeks in 1968, as America was thrown into despair by MLK's assissination and dying in Vietnam. For many of us, RFK seemed like a lifeline, a beacon of hope. No other leader at the time could galvanize the nation. It seems to me that RFK was just beginning to find his voice when he was gunned downed. It is this unrealized potential and unfulfilled promise which makes his death seem so tragic today looking back across the decades.

I remember vividly the grief and anger following his assasination, which exploded the following month in Chicago where I was then living. The film brought those feelings back to me: I feel an intense anger that once again we have an unjust war thrust upon the nation, only now there is no RFK in sight. Are we doomed as a nation to forever make the same fatal mistakes?  For all of his flaws, RFK seems like a towering giant when I survey the landscape today.

•  I also saw

  it with my 20 year of daughter.  

  I was 13 when he was killed.

  I thought the movie was good and the actual speeches from RFK showed how much the political discouse has changed in this country.

  The quotes from the speech ending the movie seemed to be speaking directly to Bush and likely were chosen for that reason.

  We got Nixon in 68 and NEVER have had a liberal president since LBJ, and we know his faults.

  Americans chose hate and fear in 68 over compassion and justice.  They really have not turned back since then.  Perhaps 2006 will be a beginning.

  Obama seems to be the closest candidate to the charisma of RFK.
     

  by TomP on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 07:46:25 AM PDT

  •  Clinton was hate and fear?

    I worked on his first campain in '92 and it was anything but -- it was about hope, and change, and youth -- yes, I would not label him a liberal, but I really don't understand what you're saying about hate and fear...

    by Alan Arizona on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:55:24 AM PDT

    •  Nor Jimmy Carter...

      nothing hateful or fearful about Jimmy.

      by kmiddle on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 09:40:14 AM PDT

      •  Neither Carter nor

        Clinton changed the course of the country and neither were really liberal.  

        The country moved so far right that conservative Dems appeared moderate to liberal.  

        I'm not attacking either Clinton or Carter - I voted for each of them twice.  

        But the liberalism of RFK (even with his flaws) and of the 1960s can be seen in Teddy Kennedy's run in 1980 and Jesee Jackson's speech at the convention in 1984 about "keeping hope alive."    

        1968 was a fundamental turning point, and all Carter and Clinton really did was slow down or lessen the some of the worst of the conservative counter revolution.  They were unable (because of the political situation) or unwilling (or both) to implement real measures for social justice.

        Until beliefs about making a better world are mainstream and predominate over radical individualism (greed is good, wealth is worshipped), we have not overcome the legacy of 1968.  

        It is in that sense that I meant my statement that "Americans chose hate and fear in 68 over compassion and justice.  They really have not turned back since then."        

        by TomP on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:03:57 AM PDT

        •  In 1968,,,

          People thought they were voting for the "peace" candidate.  

          That was Nixon's platform. The fact that he lied shouldn't be confused with the nation's mood or the reason for their choice.

          The head-busting was all done at the Democratic National convention, run by a Democratic mayor in support of the Democratic candidate for president.

          I don't think "compassion and justice" had a chance that year -- because it wasn't running.

          by kmiddle on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:14:54 AM PDT

          •  I remember

            that election.  I was 13.  Nixon promised "law and order."  Wallace got enough blue collar white Dems in Michigan to allow Nixon to win Michigan and the Presidency.  Humphery was better than Nixon.  

            I watched the Convention on TV and later knew people who were at it.   Yes, Daley was a Dem.  

            The point was there was a possibility in 1968 that we have not had since.  Maybe it would not have won, maybe we were fated to Nixon and Reaganite individualism, maybe there never has been a possibility for a better society, but maybe not.

            It is my belief that people chose fear and hate in voting for Nixon (and Wallace) in 1968.  Nixon offered a "secret peace plan."  I think people mostly voted on fear.  Law and Order was key.  He was no "peace" candidate.

            by TomP on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:26:24 AM PDT

            •  For more insight into RFK

              listen to Gore Vidal. Thanks to Gore Vidal I now know who killed JFK, and why; and why Bobby failed to investigate, and why the Warren Report was a cover-up.

              by Halcyon on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:09:57 AM PDT

              •  I don't necessarily

                accept Gore Vidal's views on those topics, but certainly Bobby Kennedy was no "saint."  

                He was counsel for the Dems on the McCarthy committee.  He attacked labor corruption. Hoffa was corrupt.  Sometimes RFK was criticized for the Hoffa investigations.  I'm just not sure that criticism is justifed, because corrupt unions helped to weaken the labor movement, and because corruption is wrong.  

                He was somewhat conservative in the 1950s and early 1960s.  He came relatively late to the civil rights movement.  He came relatively late to opposing the Vietnam War.  Many flaws from a liberal perspective.

                Since 1965 when I was 10, I believed Oswald killed JFK.  I've never seeen any reason to believe in any conspiracy.

                Vidal writes interesting novels.  I haven't read one in years, but I remember enjoying Burr and Julian, among others.  

                With all of RFK's imperfections, had he lived and defeated Nixon, I believe our society would be much different today.  No utopia, just better.  It may be wishful thinking on my part.

                Perhaps my belief is a manifestation of Jesse Jackson's refrain of "keeping hope alive" from his speech in 1984.  

                by TomP on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:25:48 AM PDT

                •  You may be right. We can't know.

                  I don't know enough about RFK, nor have I seen the movie, to know whether he grew beyond what Vidal described. Five years is plenty of time to work through issues and mature. I was not very aware of politics at the time, and only old enough to vote when I voted for McGovern. I had canvassed for McCarthy in 1968 only because my older cousin was working for McCarthy. I thought Humphrey was about the least charismatic candidate ever, and I had occasion to hear him speak at my cousin's high school graduation in 1963 (a classmate was HHH's nephew).

                  If what Vidal said was true, then it's also possible that the PTB killed Bobby so he wouldn't upset the applecart of their hegemony, once in a position to use his power to right the wrong of his brother's death. It could have been the mob cleaning up loose ends. Conjecture.

                  by Halcyon on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:49:06 AM PDT

  •  Have you forgotten Bill Clinton??????????????????

    He made not have been a far leaning liberal, but he was anything but hate and fear.  He was a breath of fresh air after George the First, and the Reagan bunch.

    by ChaiCat on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:01:18 AM PDT

•  Abraham, Martin And John

  Has anybody here seen my old friend Abraham?
  Can you tell me where he's gone?
  He freed a lot of people,
  But it seems the good they die young.
  You know, I just looked around and he's gone.

  Anybody here seen my old friend John?
  Can you tell me where he's gone?
  He freed a lot of people,
  But it seems the good they die young.
  I just looked around and he's gone.

  Anybody here seen my old friend Martin?
  Can you tell me where he's gone?
  He freed a lot of people,
  But it seems the good they die young.
  I just looked 'round and he's gone.

  Didn't you love the things that they stood for?
  Didn't they try to find some good for you and me?
  And we'll be free
  Some day soon, and it's a-gonna be one day ...

  Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
  Can you tell me where he's gone?
  I thought I saw him walkin' up over the hill,
  With Abraham, Martin and John.

  http://artists.letssingit.com/...

  by i dunno on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 07:46:32 AM PDT

  •  This song was something of a comfort

    at the time. I realized, reading your comment, that I haven't heard it in many years. It brought tears to my eyes-- for all we lost, for what we have managed to accomplish this time, and for the struggle still to come.

    by murphy on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:05:53 AM PDT

•  First McCarthy?

  Well, before Bobby, there was Eugene McCarthy, whom, if I remember correctly, was the motivation for Johnson declaring he would not run again.  This was before Kennedy declared he would campaign for the nomination.

  McCarthy, however, as history has borne out, did not have the stomach for politics, and while I think he would have been a honorable, honest and very fine president, he did not pursue that venue again during his career.

  McCarthy supporters were quite angry that RFK pre-empted McCarthy, still, we would all have voted for him had he lived.  Those were truly bad times.

  by JFinNe on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:03:14 AM PDT

•  Bobby, to me was the hope of ending Vietnam, of

  the future of America, he held the same promise for this nation that his brother Jack did, what could we do for this nation, not what this nation could do for us

  they saw it as if this nation full of people worked for change and for the humanity side of things, then life would be better for all, rich and poor

  I think the death of Bobby so soon after the loss of Martin L King Jr and just 5 years after Jack, was the end of the collective "hope" for change

  People have just been marking time since then, there has not been any public official that has generated that kind of hope in people until now

  Not even as popular as Bill Clinton was and still is, could he inspire the hope the Barack Obama is giving Americans, white and black and hispanic, with him it's not a color choice, it's what can we do to make this a better nation for all

  I have been and will continue to be a Clark supporter, due to his credentials in diplomacy as the Commander of NATO, and the Southern Command he learned diplomacy thru experience, to command such large troop levels of so many nations, and with the many levels of elected and dictatroships that he had to deal with, he appeared to carry it quite well, his education and life experience's make him a qualified leader but he does not have the same spirit of hope that Barack gnerates

  I hope that Barack could be persuaded to run as the VP on a Clark/Obama ticket and then in 8 years run for the Presidency with the experuience he is now lacking and then America would have a sixteen year period of well lead times, for this nation to heal and to grow.

  That is the vision I see, I could be wrong, hell I have been before and I will be again.

  But Barack Obama gives me the feeling of hope, the same as Kack, Martin and Bobby he just needs some more time to round out his experiences.

  by testvet6778 on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:05:02 AM PDT

  •  yes!

    you just nailed my dream ticket, which i've been trying to persuade folks to consider:  clark/obama08.  

    i think that, in these times, we need someone like clark.  and just imagine if obama could cut his strings and take off that mask of centrism... that ticket would just kick ass nationwide.  

    by anna on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 11:54:49 AM PDT

•  I was a little hesitant

  on seeing this movie, but now im leaning more towards seeing it.

  by Craig Burnham on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:07:39 AM PDT

•  Kennedy wasn't so hot.

  First of all, he was a lousy senator. Secondly, he was a bit of a Reaganite.

  Also, he wouldn't have won the nomination:

  The totals as of June 7th:
           o Hubert Humphrey 561
           o Robert Kennedy 393
           o Eugene McCarthy 258

  The New York Democratic Party was very anti-RFK, because he did almost nothing for the state he was representing, and they were already supporting either HHH or McCarthy. The McC people HATED RFK, and the Johnson/Humphrey faction (which was to the left of RFK on domestic matters) disliked him even more.

  Daley was a nominal RFK supporter. Could you imagine what would have happened at the police riot with the cops beating the crap out of the demonstrators and Daley and RFK standing next to each other with smiles on their faces?

  Could you imagine with all the chaos on the streets, the RFK faction having enough votes to stop HHH from getting the nomination on the first ballot?

  Complete meltdown of the Democratic party with Wallace coming in second in the national polling no matter who won?

  It boggles the mind.

  by YoursTruly on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 08:35:54 AM PDT

  •  While RFK had

    a mixed record, and some considered him am opportunist becuase he waited until after New Hamphire to declare, on core issues like social justice, he reached people like no other candidate.

    In any counterfactual scenario, there is no way to prove or disprove the outcome.  Would Chicago have erupted as it did if RFK were a candidate?  Maybe.  Maybe not.

    RFK, with the assination of JFK so close in people's memory, may have been nominated.  He might have defeated Nixon.

    We just don't know.  

       

    by TomP on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 09:33:31 AM PDT

  •  Why would the CIA kill him if...

    ...he wasn't going to win the nom?

    by dft on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 10:09:29 AM PDT

    •  Which is why they didn't.

      by YoursTruly on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 12:33:50 PM PDT

•  Bobby

  DowneastDem, I really enjoyed your review of Bobby.  My niece and I and Mother are so looking forward to going to the movie because of his powerful persona and yes even with his flaws, he certainly was a towering giant.

  by ChaiCat on Fri Nov 24, 2006 at 09:47:27 AM PDT