If The United Way Gives to a Discriminating Organization, should I give to The United Way?

I used to be a big United Way supporter. I was a Loaned Exec for years and spoke often to help the local organization meet their goals.

Then the whole sha-bang came down with the Boy Scouts of America discriminating against people because of their religion and/or sexual orientation.

Since this all came out, I withdrew my support.  I no longer lend my name. I still give plenty to many other organizations, but not UGN.

This conversation takes place every year:

I call the local headquarters and ask, "Do you still give to The Discriminating Scouts of America?"  

Every year they answer, "Yes. But, you know they do a lot of good things".

I reply, "So, if the KKK comes up with a reading program For Whites Only, you'll give them some money?"  

The nice leader say, "Well, of course not."

And, then just before hanging up I say, "But, it's ok to give to an organization that discriminates based on religion and sexual orientation?"

She never seems to have an answer.

Do your local United Ways give to The Discriminating Scouts of America?  Do you, then? Should I?

BTW, don't confuse the DSA with the Girl Scouts of America. They do not discriminate. They allow athiests and lesbians in their program and in leadership.

•  I know the UW has huge support...

  ...in my town. They raise, like, 1.5 million/year here. I have no idea why anyone in this town supports them.

  by dennisl on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:45:59 PM PDT

  •  Are the Boy Scouts

    a member organization?

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:47:06 PM PDT

    •  beats me

      I just see those fundraising drive thermometers all over town. I don't ask questions about it.

      by dennisl on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:56:36 PM PDT

•  Whatcha think?

  by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:46:26 PM PDT

  •  THANK YOU!!!

    This hits a raw nerve with me. Most people are not aware of the absurd lengths to which the BSA went to protect its right to discriminate. Basically it had to repudiate some of its highest principles and create out of thin air a core need to discriminate. It is truly something out of Through the Looking Glass. The NJ Supreme Court decision in BSA v Dale is incredible reading. Even more outrageous is the SCOTUS decision overturning the NJ court. The supremes had to turn their own precedents in the JCs and Rotary cases upside down in order to do it.

    The BSA is rotten to the core. The national board of directors is bad enough, but the board of advisors is infinitely worse. This board consists of representatives of the largest institutional sponsors of scout troops, including the Mormons, Baptists, Catholics, and Methodist Men's Board (which is much more conservative than the UMC). It's a virtual who's who of the religious right and together they sponsor the majority of troops.

    There is a host of organizations doing great work with youth that do not discriminate based on belief or sexual orientation. Fuck the BSA. The Girl Scouts and Boys and Girls Clubs, among many others, do a great job without discriminating.

    Fuck the BSA. Fuck the BSA. Fuck the BSA.

    by homogenius on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 08:24:09 PM PDT

    •  Hey! Quit beating around the bush....

      And tell us what you really think! :)

      by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 10:05:32 PM PDT

•  I found out that you can earmark your United Way

  donations.  That way I was able to avoid BSA and some others that I found unsavory (some borderline anti-abortion groups for example).  Not the ideal solution, but you can avoid having your money go to any groups you disagree with.

  by bherner on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:47:57 PM PDT

  •  I did this for the first year

    and then decided that it was still wrong. Would I continue supporting them if they gave to the KKK? No. So why the Discriminating Scouts of America?

    Now I just give directly to organizations I support.

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:50:26 PM PDT

    •  I respect your decision. For me, the convenience

      of having my donation taken out of my paycheck overcame my squemishness over some of the organizations UW supports (although my money did not).  Maybe it's a rationalization, but it worked for me.

      by bherner on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:53:42 PM PDT

      •  As I respect yours.

        I don't actively campaign against their fund drive. They do a lot of good. But, they do give to an organization that openly, proudly discrimiates against people because of their religion and thier sexual orientation.

        While many in my community could overlook it, I could not.

        If they gave to the local Anti-Jew Skinheads Against Homelessness, my community would be up in arms. But they give to the Anti-Atheist (how many times did I misspell that in this post?) Scouts and/or the Anti-Gay Scouts but thats ok.

        Not for me.

        by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:08:10 PM PDT

  •  I've never understood people donating

    to the UW.  I chose which organizations support the things most important to me and donate to those rather than letting someone else or group of someone elses make the decisions regarding what organizations are worthy of my money.  Is ease of donating (via payroll deductions) really that important to people?  It doesn't seem that hard to write a check every few months and put it in the mail or call an organization you like and put a donation on your credit card.  Can anyone explain this phenomenon to me?

    by gustynpip on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 08:34:19 PM PDT

    •  Ease of donating is one thing,

      But, I think it also is important to pool resources. Supposedly, the Admissions and Distributions Committees are reviewing the organizations and the community need.

      I might miss something good. My issue isn't with the UW, but rather to whom they give.

      If they can give to the Discriminating Scouts of America, then maybe they'll give to other discriminating organizations.

      by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 10:08:50 PM PDT

•  I just renewed my monthly UW pledge at work

  They do too much good in my county for me to discard them.
  Here is their statement in question:

  Inclusiveness.
  We are strong only when we are inclusive.
  We believe in a movement built from the rich diversity and gifts of all people.
  We act in ways that respect the dignity, uniqueness, and intrinsic worth of every person in our community: recipients of benefits, the donors, our own staff and families, boards, volunteers and collaborative impact partners.

  by elbamash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 06:54:38 PM PDT

  •  Great statement

    I wish our local United Way expected all the organizations to which they donate to live up to that statement.

    Not all local United Ways give to the Discriminating Scouts of America. Does your?

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:17:07 PM PDT

    •  Unfortunately, they do.

      The Boy Scouts is one of 20 local agencies they support. Most of the agencies are geared toward poor women and thier children. I suppose supporting the Girl Scouts requires an in kind support for the Boy Scouts even though the two organizations are totally different.
      You can volunteer to be on a steering committee where I suppose you could have an influence on where the money goes. I will look into this in my county.
      Thanks for the diary. But please don't give up on your local UW, I think they are only as good as the people who run it.

      by elbamash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:30:33 PM PDT

      •  I don't give up.

        I firmly believe that "Sooner or later, they all come around to my way of thinking."

        Every year I call. When ever I'm called about the UW, I tell them why I say no.  Whenever I'm asked about the Boy Scouts I tell them what I think.

        I believe that someday, the Boy Scouts of America will stop discriminating.

        I believe that before that day arrives, my local UW will stop giving to a discriminating organization.

        I believe that after the BSA stop discriminating, my local UW will start giving to them again.

        I'm patient.

        by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:35:42 PM PDT

        •  Never give up, never surrender.

          Keep calling. Keep questioning. Keep raising awareness. Keep bringing it up whenever and wherever you can.

          Look at it this way. What the BSA does doesn't just hurt the scouts, leaders, and families who are directly affected. MLK said injustice for some is injustice for all. Everyone who participates in discrimination, directly or indirectly, loses part of their humanity. The UW loses by endorsing and enabling this behavior, as does everyone who assists them or contributes.

          Keep lighting a candle in the darkness. You are only responsible for doing what you can.

          by homogenius on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 08:11:27 PM PDT

      •  Actually, in places where enough people have said

        that they refused to donate because of their support of the BSA, they have dropped the BSA.

        by tiponeill on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:40:24 PM PDT

•  I would never let my kid become a Boy Scout.

  Of course, my kid would not be allowed to be a Boy Scout, because he is an atheist.

  The discrimination doesn't stop with gays.   We, the atheist community, are also excluded.

  by NNadir on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:01:45 PM PDT

  •  Our youngest (21 now)

    asked to go to a Cub Scout recruitment meeting when he was about 8.  I agreed to take him, but told him I had some issues.

    While there, a nice lady came up and asked if I was interested in being in leadership.  I replied that I wasn't qualified.  She said, "Why sure you are."

    I said, "Read the first line of your application."

    It said, "I believe in a Supreme Being."

    I said, "I'm an atheist. I'm not qualified."

    She said, "Well, I didn't even know that was there. It's not a big deal."

    I said, "To me, it is."

    Our son decided not to join.

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:21:09 PM PDT

    •  Well more power to you for taking your son.

      I'm far too controlling for that.

      It sounds like your boy did well too.

      by NNadir on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:42:35 PM PDT

    •  when I was around 13

      I wanted to take part in a physics program at Argonne National Labs. I went to the first class and at the end they handed out the applications - it turned out to be a boy scout affiliated program. I would have had to agree that I believed in a Supreme Being to join a physics program. I pointed that out to one of the guys there ... he thought it was ironic, but didn't think it was a big deal either.
      I ended up not going back.

      by HiBob on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:54:23 PM PDT

•  Thank you

  Would that more Americans had your principles.

  As to targetting your donation...even that is not available in my community.  The Pride Center and other gay groups are denied support from the UW because they have a "political agenda" -- but the local UW ignores (supports?) the discriminatory and political agenda of the boy scouts.

  It doesn't count that UW supports, for example, AIDS organiziations as "balancing" the boy scouts. Despite enormous pressure at work I will not donate to the UW.

  In my PREVIOUS location the UW supported the BOY scouts but summarily STOPPED supporting the GIRL scouts "due to lack of funds."  Basically I am totally unimpressed with UW.

  by mathGuyNTulsa on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:20:55 PM PDT

  •  Thank you.

    How frustrating to have them support the Discriminating Scouts, but cut the Girl Scouts that are truely "Inclusive" due to lack of funds.

    Sad state of affairs.

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:23:51 PM PDT

    •  THis was over 15 years ago

      before the Boy Scouts told SCOTUS that discriminating against gay people was fundamental to their organization. It was also in another city as I believe Tulsa UW has always supported girl scouts.

      Still, why support one scouting organization and not another -- I think sexism was the root cause in this other city.

      by mathGuyNTulsa on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:27:47 PM PDT

      •  No kidding!

        Supporting the Boy Scouts while cutting the Girl Scouts is like the boss who lets the female go but keeps the male because, "Well, after all he has to support a family."

        15 years ago they could get away with it. I bet they couldn't today.

        by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:32:09 PM PDT

•  I have refused to 'contribute' to the UW since

  1965.

  That is when I was a starving student, living off what my wife could make (minimum wage) in a textile mill, and she discovered that she had "automatically" donated to the UW - complain and you are fired.

  On the entrance to the store, there were plaques praising the company for "100 % participation" from it's employees.

  Ever since then I vowed that I would quit before I would give them a dime - may they rot.

  by tiponeill on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:33:40 PM PDT

  •  Ouch!

    What a boss.  I can't believe they made it mandatory.

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:50:55 PM PDT

    •  It wasn't the boss - it was United Way

      They purposely would give out "awards" and managers gained prestige in the community if they forced workers who were powerless to contribute.

      UW knew what it was doing

      by tiponeill on Sat Dec 02, 2006 at 06:35:57 PM PDT

      •  There are all kinds of marketing strategies

        Some good. Some bad.

        Your former boss took his esteem by forceing you to give.  He, like many, could have told them to take a flying leap.

        But, still, I agree that UW has more issues than just supporting the Discriminating Scouts of America.

        by Stash on Sun Dec 03, 2006 at 10:21:39 AM PDT

  •  I am with you

    At my workplace about five years ago, the person in charge of the United Way campaign called up people during a "thank you" rally at the end of the campaign and handed out certificates to big donors followed by her reading a list of the names of people at the workplace who didn't contribute, calling them stingy.

    So many people - both contributors and non-contributors - were so angry, we stormed the HR director's office demanding that an apology be issued and the UW campaign never, ever, ever, take that tone again.

    Now, we get a slip with a donation request and a note that says if you aren't interested, simply throw the slip away.

    UW has fought that all the way.  They want rallies and the like.

    Like you, I won't contribute to any charitable organization that wants to make donating akin to an Amway sales pitch.

    by LeftofArizona on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 08:43:52 PM PDT

•  I'm with you, but please be careful

  Check with your LOCAL United Way.

  Many locals have stopped affiliating with the BSA.

  Unfortunately, my local rejected my plea to stop contributing to the BSA a few years ago. Alas, after many years of making payroll contributions, I've stopped. I intend to renew my plea soon because my local United Way has some new leaders.

  by raatz on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:39:55 PM PDT

  •  Also, check with your local governments re BSA

    Here's some guidance from the Freedom From Religion Foundation:

    http://ffrf.org/...

    And here's some background on the ACLU's related fight with the City of San Diego:

    http://aclusandiego.org/...

    by raatz on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:43:36 PM PDT

  •  This is very true.

    I'm only speaking about my local UW and urging others to check with their local UW.

    by Stash on Wed Nov 29, 2006 at 07:53:24 PM PDT