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Associated Press has a quick round-up of reaction of American troops from Company C, 1st Battalion, 37th Armored Regiment, stationed in Ramadi, to the ISG recommendations. Note that the group is, according to the article, "still reeling" from learning two months ago that its tour will be extended until February.

Some choice quotes:

Spc. Eisenhower Atuatasi, 26, of Westminster, Calif.: "There's no way we're leaving in two years no matter what any recommendation says."

Staff Sgt. Rony Theodore, 33, of Brooklyn, N.Y.: "All of us want to change what we're doing because we're not doing very much."

Sgt. Christopher Wiacik, 28, of Livonia, Michigan: "It's just a study group. It's not really going to affect the president. I don't see any major changes happening until presidential elections start. I think both sides will promise to get troops out and give timelines then, but not before. We're just sitting around not making any progress. It's annoying. You're not motivated to help anybody. I don't want to live my life like this."

Spc. Richard Johnson, 20, of Bridgeport, Conn.: "It's like holding a child's hand. How long can you hold onto his hand before he does something on his own? How much longer do we have to get shot at or blown up?"

First Lieutenant Gerard Dow, 32, of Chicago, Ill.: "In Iraq, we try to win the hearts and minds of population. They want Americans out of here. They blame us for all their problems. They look at us as the terrorists and then they turn around and help the terrorists who are trying to kill us.... U.S. soldiers are dying trying to help people who don't want their help."

Man, this is totally heartbreaking. The effort to save Bush some face is not worth one of these soldiers’ lives. Not a damn one.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:05 PM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Thanks For Posting This... (23+ / 0-)

    It serves as yet another reminder that, contrary to the incessant conventional wisdom of our pundit class, the needs of the soldiers ARE NOT well served by Republicans in general, and this administration in particular.

    "It. Is. About. Winning."

    by Steve Singiser on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:03:28 PM PST

  •  And 10 of them died today (32+ / 0-)

    The fatality count for the month so far is 29, and none have yet been announced for yesterday, so it may well be higher still.

    •  We've lost three since Saturday (6+ / 0-)

      and one more is in critical condition - coma and double amputee.  That's in Minnesota.

      We're heartbroken.

      That's not counting the 10 listed out today.

    •  Addendum (5+ / 0-)

      Thanks to Atrios and Yglesias, I came across this extraordinary bit of self-parody by David ("The Dean") Broder in today's WaPo - WARNING!!! DO NOT READ THE PORTION FOLLOWING THE [snip] UNLESS YOU HAVE A BARF BAG HANDY!!!:

      Whatever the final impact of the Iraq Study Group report being issued today, for the 10 commission members this was an exhilarating experience, a demonstration of genuine bipartisanship that they hope will serve as an example to the broader political world.

      "It was a very wonderful experience," former Republican senator Al Simpson of Wyoming told me last weekend. "We very quickly stopped considering ourselves as Republicans and Democrats, but as Americans trying to deal with a most urgent problem."

      The nine men and one woman serving on the commission -- five from each party -- represented a wide range of political backgrounds and philosophical views. Several had been on opposing sides in past presidential campaigns.

      But as commission member Vernon Jordan, the Democratic lawyer, noted, they were also "professionals" -- veterans of public service. Jordan has served on presidential commissions of one sort or another since 1965, and said, "This process has been a lesson in civility.". . .  The analogy suggested by Simpson and [Leon] Panetta, both veterans of Capitol Hill, and endorsed by Jordan, is that the commission functioned like a successful House-Senate conference committee. Members fought to include (or exclude) points that were especially important to them, "but in the end," as Jordan noted, "you have to have the votes to pass it."

      [snip]

      {REMEMBER MY WARNING ABOUT THE BARF BAG!!!}

      Despite all the goodwill, several of the members recounted that toward the end of their deliberations, one commissioner -- not someone who had served in Congress, they noted -- said he would not sign the report if one part was not removed.

      James A. Baker III, the former Republican secretary of state, glanced at his co-chairman, former Democratic representative Lee Hamilton, and calmly said to the dissenter, "Okay, don't."

      A little later, others recalled, the dissenting member asked to return to the disputed passage and, in short order, agreed to slightly modified language.

      "No one wanted to see us embarrassed by being unable to come to consensus," Simpson said.

      [snip]

      {YOU MAY NEED ANOTHER ONE!!!}

      When I put the question to Panetta, he said, "Our forefathers intended that a process like this work for people elected to office -- the president and members of Congress in both the House and Senate. They believed they would come from different places but ultimately find consensus -- that was the Miracle of Philadelphia," the compromise that produced the Constitution.

      "What's unusual now is their contracting out to people like us a job that elected officials are supposed to do -- finding consensus on difficult issues. I hope this will be a lesson to them; otherwise, we're in for continued trench warfare."

      I hope Washington is listening.

      That comment comparing DC struggles over legislation to trench warfare would be inappropriate at any time, but coming as it does on a day when 10 soldiers (so far) were killed in the war this commission was supposed to find a way out of, it is nothing less than disgusting.

      As is that last comment by Broder, who must have been a prarie schoolmarm in a previous life.  As Yglesias noted, "YOU ARE WASHINGTON, YOU MORON, AND YOU AND YOUR NOTIONS OF POLITICAL COMITY AND BIPARTISANSHIP ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS CATASTROPHE!!!"

      •  Yeah...cause you know bipartisan consensus (5+ / 0-)

        is more important than stopping the war. It's hell on the cocktail weenie circuit when you can't converse idly with half the ivited guests.

        •  I think that's (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          kilo50, fairfax

          what so frusterating about those pundit-people, especially Broder, and some others.  Subtext of everything they write is so annoyingly obvious.  "I'm writing about the aristocracy.  This is how I maintain my place in the aristocracy.  So shut up, you."

          "In the beginning the universe was created; this has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

          by LithiumCola on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:27:37 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  After posting this (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dancewater

        I left work and went across the street to have a quick dinner before running some errands, and saw on the TV that this meme is being pushed very hard by the ISG members.  The show that was on was "Hardball," with Barnacle Mike the Sailor sitting in for Tweety Blueballs, and ISG members Sandra Day O'Connor and Chuck Robb were gushing and gooing about how wonderful it was for all of them to Reach Consensus And This Was A Surefire Way To Cure What Ails Our Wonderful Nation.  They sounded like a bunch of 40-somethings who'd finally discovered orgasmic bliss after a lifetime of bad sex.  So what happens when Bush simply ignores everything the report says?

  •  It's more than about saving Bush (10+ / 0-)

    The ISG represents the Bipartisan CW on US Foreign Policy and our nation's place in the world.  It's role is to figure out how to minimize the damage of the Iraq fiasco on the American Imperium.  And make no mistake about it, supporting the American Empire is absolutely bipartisan.

    The question isn't whether saving Bush is worth the price.

    The question we need to ask (because virtually no one with any power in DC will ask it), is whether saving the Empire is worth the enormous price we pay, and force others to pay.

    "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

    by Pesto on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:05:22 PM PST

    •  Which is why Russ Feingold's comment ... (23+ / 0-)

      ...is the closest thing so far from any Senator that matches my view:

      "Unfortunately, the Iraq Study Group report does too little to change the flawed mind-set that led to the misguided war in Iraq. Maybe there are still people in Washington who need a study group to tell them that the policy in Iraq isn’t working, but the American people are way ahead of this report.

      While the report has regenerated a few good ideas, it doesn’t adequately put Iraq in the context of a broader national security strategy. We need an Iraq policy that is guided by our top national security priority – defeating the terrorist network that attacked us on 9/11 and its allies. We can’t continue to just look at Iraq in isolation. Unless we set a serious timetable for redeploying our troops from Iraq, we will be unable to effectively address these global threats. In the end, this report is a regrettable example of ‘official Washington’ missing the point."

      •  Bubbleland (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Miss Blue, kilo50, LithiumCola, daeros

        Seriously, is there some invisible dome, some "Lost"-like electromagnetic field that surrounds DC and cuts them off from the outside world?

        Maybe there are still people in Washington who need a study group to tell them that the policy in Iraq isn’t working, but the American people are way ahead of this report.

        How did Russ escape?  Maybe he could go back and rescue a few of the Losties in DC and bring them back to the "mainland".

        Investigate! Impeach! Indict! Incarcerate!

        by Cato come back on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:22:45 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  And from the mouth of babes, (14+ / 0-)

        as the saying goes:

        Sgt. Christopher Wiacik, 28, of Livonia, Michigan: "It's just a study group. It's not really going to affect the president. I don't see any major changes happening until presidential elections start. I think both sides will promise to get troops out and give timelines then, but not before.

        Why do I think this guy is 100% right?

        "No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices." Edward R. Murrow

        by Pager on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:22:58 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, but... (8+ / 0-)

        As he often is, Feingold is one of the very few doing some actual thinking in DC.  That's kind of his niche -- and wasn't that Proxmire's reputation, back in the day (did Wisconsin promise to provide one of these guys to the Senate back when they joined the Union?)?

        But I'm not convinced that he's really that "out there" -- he's arguing that we have to take the big picture into account and worry about al Qaida, but frankly that's only a little bit more of a "duh!" statement than the ISG's admission of bad things in Iraq.  And nothing that Feingold says here, in and of itself, contradicts the basic stance that American Empire is good and necessary.  It sounds quite a lot like Kerry circa October 2004, and his campaign was all about being the better man to run the Empire than Shrub was.

        What's really needed is someone asking, "Why does America need to have the largest military in the world?  Why should working Americans feel more concern for fellow-American Jack Welch than for a fellow-worker in a factory in Mexico or China?  Why are the walking undead of the Cold War still the leading 'thinkers' in DC foreign policy circles?"

        But I'm not holding my breath.

        "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

        by Pesto on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:23:01 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree that, as it stands, Feingold's ... (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pesto, kilo50, mango, Randall Sherman

          ...statement doesn't go as far as you (and I) would like. However, two paragraphs could be added dealing with deconstructing the empire and American militarism without contradicting the two that he's already made.

          There are global threats that must be dealt with - via international cooperation - military, economic, social and environmental threats. We need a paradigm shift in U.S. foreign policy both to acknowledge and deal with those threats.

          •  Feingold here isn't saying anything wrong (0+ / 0-)

            I agree, he's just not going that far with his analysis.  But you're certainly right, as far as I'm concerned, that he's on the right track.  The question is how far down the track he's already gone and is willing to go.

            But it's not particularly reasonable for us to expect the mechanism to correct itself.  The Empire is designed to protect itself -- why would a court eunuch like Vernon Jordan (one of the Dems on the ISG) do anything to threaten the Forbidden City?

            In the late 60s and early 70s, politicians had to recognize that there was serious unrest going on in the US -- mass demonstrations, uniformed National Guard murdering unarmed students at Kent State, riots over the draft.  They could easily imagine things getting worse if they didn't end the War.  I doubt that they have similar fears today, and I don't expect that they'll be motivated to open up American Empire to public questioning until we put some serious fear into them and their ilk.

            "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

            by Pesto on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:58:07 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree again. None of the Dems ... (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Pesto, kilo50

              ...on that "bipartisan" commission is a rebel, and three are hawks. So, as I have written previously, I didn't expect anything valuable from the ISG. But, if the Dems were less cautious, they'd use the report as backdrop for talking points along the lines Feingold has brought up.

              If, if, if ...

              •  So what are the Democrats going to do. (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kilo50

                We already know what Rep. Reyes is going to do.  That, in my opinion, was the most important development of the day: Rep. Reyes' inexplicable statements.

                "In the beginning the universe was created; this has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                by LithiumCola on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:31:53 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  In case anyone (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Meteor Blades

                  missed it:

                  Dec. 5. 2006 - In a surprise twist in the debate over Iraq, Rep. Silvestre Reyes, the soon-to-be chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said he wants to see an increase of 20,000 to 30,000 U.S. troops as part of a stepped up effort to "dismantle the militias."

                  But in an interview with NEWSWEEK on Tuesday, Reyes pointedly distanced himself from many of his Democratic colleagues who have called for fixed timetables for the withdrawal of U.S. troops. Coming on the eve of tomorrow’s recommendations from the bipartisan Baker-Hamilton commission, Reyes’s comments were immediately cited by some Iraq war analysts as fresh evidence that the intense debate over U.S. policy may be more fluid than many have expected.

                  --snip--

                  But when asked what he told Pelosi about his thinking on Iraq, Reyes replied: "What I said was, we can’t afford to leave there. And anybody who says, we are going pull out our troops immediately, is being dishonest ... We’re all interested in getting out of Iraq. That’s a common goal. How we do it, I think, is the tough part. There are those that say, they don’t care what Iraq looks like once we leave there. Let’s just leave there. And I argue against that. I don’t think that’s responsible. And I think it plays right into the hands of Syria and Iran."

                  I have a hard time believing my eyes, reading this.  What the hell is this????

                  "In the beginning the universe was created; this has been widely criticized and generally regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

                  by LithiumCola on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:38:32 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                •  The rank-and-file will ... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  LithiumCola

                  ...as usual, be all over the place. The leadership? Who knows?

                  My guess is there will be - as can already be seen on some Web sites - a lot of we-told-you-so and then some wait-and-see for the first three months of '07 as Mister Bush dinks around the edges of the report. The only possible sugarcoating on that turd will be the probability of some investigations getting underway.

      •  Senator Feingold is supposed to be (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        RonV, Miss Blue

        on Countdown tonight to discuss the ISG with Keith.

    •  Saving Bush some face... (5+ / 0-)

      Definition of Face-Saving: An act that avoids a loss of face (of dignity or prestige).

      Bush has neither dignity nor prestige. Bush has no face. He's the faceless man

      "I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control, I didn't even know there was a war." -9.75, -8.41

      by RonV on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:16:57 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Bush Bumper Stickers (4+ / 0-)

        Received by e-mail from a friend this afternoon. I've seen a few of them before, but some of them are pretty funny, IMO.

        2006 Bush Bumper Stickers

        1/20/09: End of an Error  

        That's OK, I Wasn't Using My Civil Liberties Anyway

        Let's Fix Democracy in This Country First

        If You Want a Nation Ruled By Religion, Move to Iran

        Bush.  Like a Rock.  Only Dumber.

        If You Can Read This, You're Not Our President

        Of Course It Hurts: You're Getting Screwed by an Elephant

        Hey, Bush Supporters: Embarrassed Yet?

        George Bush: Creating the Terrorists Our Kids Will Have to Fight

        Impeachment: It's Not Just for Blowjobs Anymore

        America: One Nation, Under Surveillance

        They Call Him "W" So He Can Spell It ?

        Whose God Do You Kill For?

        Cheney/Satan '08

        Jail to the Chief

        No, Seriously, Why Did We Invade Iraq?

        Bush: Israeli Angel, Palestinian Devil

        Bush: God's Way of Proving Intelligent Design is Full Of Crap

        Bad President!  No Banana.

        We Need a President Who's Fluent In At Least One Language

        We're Making Enemies Faster Than We Can Kill Them

        Bush: La Republique? c'est moi

        Is It VietnamYet?

        Bush Doesn't Care About White People, Either

        Lib-ur-tee, Fra-tur-nah-tee, Equal-tee

        Where Are We Going?  And Why Are We In This Handbasket?

        You Elected Him.  You Deserve Him.

        Impeach Cheney First

        Dubya, Your Dad Shoulda Pulled Out, Too

        When Bush Took Office, Gas Was $1.46

        Pray For Impeachment

        The Republican Party: Our Bridge to the 11th Century

        What Part of "Bush Lied" Don't You Understand?

        One Nation Under Clod

        1. Embarrassed
        1. Horrified
        1. Terrified

        Bush Never Exhaled

        Burning Bush a Scary Bible Omen

        At Least Nixon Resigned

        How do you ask someone to be the last man or woman to die for a president's ego?

        by litigatormom on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:36:11 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  Also the Democratic hawks who voted for war (6+ / 0-)

      The fix is in, boys and girls. The administration and Capitol Hill Democrats are planning to redeploy just enough troops and scale down operations to create the impression that we're pulling out.

      The result? Both major party presidential candidates will say the same thing about Iraq: "Never mind how we got in, the issue is how we get out." Iraq comes off the table as an issue in 2008 and Democratic hawks, most notably Hillary Rodham Clinton, are spared the consequences of their pro-war vote.

      "The Rose Bowl is not a consolation. It's the greatest tradition in college football."--Michigan coach Lloyd Carr.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:20:25 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Just heard Harry Reed stating that there will (5+ / 0-)

        be investigations into how the intelligence was cooked to get us into Iraq.  Maybe we're wrong, DTM, and our Dems really are going to dig in to this.

        •  I do hope that I'm wrong (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          RonV, sherlyle

          And I hope that my senator, Carl Levin, does his usual meticulous and methodical job, lays out the tapestry of administration lies, and names names.

          "The Rose Bowl is not a consolation. It's the greatest tradition in college football."--Michigan coach Lloyd Carr.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:31:11 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Investigations are a different issue (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          Look, you could investigate out the wazoo and change nothing in Iraq, or even investigate while sending 100,000 more troops (not that they exist, but hypothetically).

          Or, you could pull out tomorrow and leave the investigations until after everyone's home.  Investigating and pulling out the troops are distinct issues.

          The Dems officially ran as a "big-tent Party" without a position on the War other than investigations, saying that "things have to change," and hating Bush and Rumsfeld.

          So it can't surprise anyone that Pelosi is uninterested in starting an intra-Party squabble on how to crack this nut.  Best to fight easily winnable fights (e.g., investigating Bush's incompetence and corruption) and leave the tough decision to another day and time.

          "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

          by Pesto on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:32:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I hope that what Reid said is a good sign, pesto. (0+ / 0-)

            I hope Pelosi isn't backing away from the discussion we MUST have, about how to get out of Iraq.  Seems to me the Dems were all agreed on the fact that Iraq is lost, and we must get out.  The question is do we stay long enough to try to fix some of the stuff we've messed up in Iraq, or do we get out now, regardless of what happens there?  I'm honestly so confused about that question I just can't see what we should do.  My strongest impulse is to get out.  Now.  But is that the right thing to do?  Is there anything we can do that would be right?  It doesn't seem right to just leave them with this huge mess, but I can't see what we could possibly do to make it right, either.  Isn't this the question most Dems are wrestling with right now?

            •  Well, Pelosi studiously avoided saying anything (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              kilo50, sherlyle

              like "All Democrats agree that Iraq is lost and we must get out" at any time during the campaign.  If she felt that strongly about it, she might have included something to that effect in the "First 100 Hours" list, don't you think?

              But is that the right thing to do?  Is there anything we can do that would be right?  It doesn't seem right to just leave them with this huge mess, but I can't see what we could possibly do to make it right, either.  Isn't this the question most Dems are wrestling with right now?

              The right thing for the Dems to do, from the Party's perspective, is to get themselves re-elected in 2008, hopefully with a President to go along with their House and Senate majorities.  I don't believe there's a Party consensus on Iraq, and I do believe that there's a serious aversion to anything that looks like "disunity and infighting" (look at the bad press over the Majority Leader spat) among the Heathers.

              I think they're figuring out how to do as little as possible with the issue of ending the War and still hold public support.  It's a hot potato that no one wants to grab onto.

              "Run, comrade, the old world is behind you!" -- Situationist graffito, 1968

              by Pesto on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:18:54 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

        •  source? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          source please?

        •  Problem w/Data (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          sherlyle

          This same article went on to note that the data coming out of Iraq was flawed and needed to be corrected.  They noted that on one day, only 96 serious incidents were noted.  When they read the records, they found 1,001 serious incidents.  They experssed the belief that not giving accurate pictures of what was going on in Iraq did not help develop strategy.  DUH

    •  Right - now its a class divide... (5+ / 0-)

      rather than a partisan divide. It's the Washington-New York Elites versus the Flyover Country Nobodies (writing this from Wisconsin).

      I've been amazed by the quickness with which our country's ruling class has rallied to the "no quick withdrawal" position since the election. Note how the New York Times editorial  board, shortly after the election, came out for MORE troops in Iraq. And who agrees with the NY Times and John McCain that we need MORE troops in Iraq? How about Silvestre Reyes, the new Democratic chair of the House Intelligence committee?

      It's as if they looked at what the American people want (troops home NOW) and said, "No, you can't have that. Not good for you. Now sit down and shut up while the adults run things"

      These folks need a kick in the pants, or failing that, a million angry people outside (and maybe inside) while they're being sworn into their cushy offices.

      And that's why I'm heading to D.C. on Jan 27.

  •  Heartbreaking is right (6+ / 0-)

    Thanks for posting.  I don't know if the troops are any better at prognosticating what is going to happen, but they provide a different perspective.  Too many of us here read all the same news.  We end up basting in the same information soup, and so our conclusions end up sounding the same.

    Troops have their own information streams.  Right or wrong, their perspectives are generally very enlightening.

    •  heartbreaking yes, but their voices are vital (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daeros, Randall Sherman

      Getting the troops' reactions brings an absolutely vital voice to any discussion on Iraq.  After all, it is their lives that are on the line, and they are the ones who are closest to what is actually happening on the ground in Iraq.

    •  How much of the PTSD (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miss Blue, Randall Sherman

      comes from a feeling of hopelessness?  From a perception that it's all a useless bloodbath being fought for mercenary purposes?

      The troops could bear a lot of the emotional scars if there was some 'higher purpose' to it all.  But, when they look around at the idiotic planning, the stupidity of not securing borders and munitions, the fact that Iraq is disintegrating, the wealth of the companies that supply their meager k-rations, how can soldiers soothe their own intellects?

      The Bushites waged this war believing they could control perceptions.  It is the ultimate arrogance that they abandon those who have awoken to a reality of nightmares.

      It is truly heartbreaking to witness the burden of the troops and veterans.

      Investigate! Impeach! Indict! Incarcerate!

      by Cato come back on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:37:55 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  If only we really believed in fairies (13+ / 0-)

    these guys would think their service and sacrifices were worth it. That about sums up the White House's position, right?

    Every single death, every single lost arm, lost leg, every single fatherless or motherless child, all to save George W. Bush's pride.  It's more than heartbreaking.  

    How do you ask someone to be the last man or woman to die for a president's ego?

    by litigatormom on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:05:24 PM PST

    •  not really that long (6+ / 0-)

      very few words per page, because this version is already set to go the printers (random house, if you're wondering).  so there's lots of whitespace, blank pages, etc.  plus there's a lot of the standard throat-clearing gobbledygook that you can skim over.

      oh, and you can safely cut off the last 20 pages.  it's the credits.  including, and i kid you not, 17 fracking pages of bios of the committee members.  in other words, these guys, from baker and hamilton to norm mineta, treated this report as a promotional opportunity for themselves.  unreal.

      l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

      by zeke L on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:35:36 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Kudos to these guys for speaking out (10+ / 0-)

    This takes guts.  I am sure this is not encouraged by their superiors.  We need more of this.

  •  Perhaps the saddest part of all (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    dinazina, SecondComing, kilo50, daeros

    is how the chickens are coming home to roost so predictably, like they always do.

    I would bet that almost 100 percent of these soldiers, if they voted, voted for Bush -- probably twice.

    Please note that I'm not at all saying anyone deserves death or dismemberment because of how they voted in a stupid election. So don't say I said that -- because I didn't.

    What I am saying is that there are very real consequences for our actions in this world, and the sooner people learn that the better.

  •  Now all these poor grunts (3+ / 0-)

    will be sent off to service the DEW Line or something.

    "Staff Sgt. Rony Theodore?"

    Yes sir!

    "I want you to take this rifle, and go out there and shoot something!"

    But sir, all that's out there is a village of poor...

    "You wanted to make a difference soldier!"

    Hopefully it won't come to that.  I can't wait for MASH-Iraq, in ten or fifteen years.  I want our troops out of there, but then, what of the people whose lives will be completely destroyed by our pullout?  We are going to be paying for and asking apologies of that poor country for a long time to come.

    Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

    by angrytoyrobot on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:08:10 PM PST

  •  When will they re-write history books (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SecondComing, Omen, Cato come back, daeros

    that re-label the American Revolutionary Army as a band of terrorists? Terrorists my ass, they are trying to expel a foreign occupying force and get their country back.

    We should try to do the same.

    •  Actually, it was a rebellion... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      daeros

      we were a British colony, after all, part of the empire, until we declared our independence.  An "insurgent" war at first ( Boston tea party, burning of the Gaspee, etc) until the founding fathers signed the Declaration of Independence.

      The people shouldn't fear the government, the government should fear the people!

      by raygungnu on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:17:30 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  You have to wonder (6+ / 0-)

      when shooting from behind trees, tar and feathering local governors, setting fire to ships, gun running, fathering an insurgency and killing quislings went from  fighting for your country to be a terrorist insurgency?

      Oh, wait, guess it changed wwhen George W started caling the USA "Homeland" and being afraid to get out in the field and lead the troops himself.

      Fatherless coward.

      Hey George?  How would we have felt if the French had come over here, kicked out the Brits and then decided to build military bases?

      Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

      by angrytoyrobot on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:17:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  ISG (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Civil Defense, daeros

    Why is there no comment from any Democrat,any, who is willing to tell it as it is: There must be a way out in 2006, not 2007 or 2008. Does anyone think that from the 10 Washington retreads that made up the ISG, we were going to get one original idea? Isn't there one Democrat who has read Shakespeare and realizes that there is a tide in the affairs of men which taken at the flood leads to fortune?

  •  Protecting bush's name takes precedence. (5+ / 0-)

    That's all he cares about...

    Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

    by darthstar on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:09:57 PM PST

  •  No Military vets in the study group? (5+ / 0-)

    How can anyone lend an ounce of credibility to the plan, if no current high ranking military vets with combat experience were involved with the study group?

    There's more current military combat experience in this blog then there was on the study group.

  •  It is striking to me (12+ / 0-)

    when the cover of Newsweek, the cover of a truly main stream "feed the masses what the ruling elite want them to hear" weekly magazine refers to the battle between the "Realists" and the "True believer in chief."
    We are actually living in a country led by an individual that the corporate press now acknowledges is living in a fantasy world.  The United States Of America.  The world's only superpower.  The wealthiest nation on Earth.  Helmed by a man divorced from all reality.

    What's different today is that yesterday we had the election....and the Democrats won.-G.W. Bush, 11/8/06

    by jazzmaniac on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:11:18 PM PST

    •  and we can't remove him... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miss Blue, daeros, Randall Sherman

      for being incompetent and out of his right mind?  Seems to me we have a case for doing just that.

      I wouldn't believe Bush if his tongue became notarized (h/t to shanti2)

      by billlaurelMD on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:16:49 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I don't in any way mean to make light (4+ / 0-)

        of the disease of alcoholism by this observation, but I've heard from many reformed alcoholics who refer to Bush's general behavior and demeanor, in all things, not just Iraq, as being that of a "dry drunk;" an individual who has given up drinking, but still maintains all of the unresolved personal matters of an active alcoholic.
        And it is time that the people of the United States Of America staged an intervention.

        •  Yep (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          daeros, Eyes Wide Open

          I lived with an alcoholic for a year--he quit drinking and I went to an AA meeting with him and they pretty much confronted him with the "dry drunk" analysis. I had never heard of it before.

          I'd say Bush meets the profile. Every behavior, action, and reaction remains unchanged. Only the actual alcohol has been given up, not the accompanying destructive behaviors.

          "No one can terrorize a whole nation, unless we are all his accomplices." Edward R. Murrow

          by Pager on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:31:42 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  He has always lived in a dream world... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      arbiter

      Did you ever see, or was there ever a hint of, GWB joining the Peace Corps, or doing anything to make himself uncomfortable?

      I mean, the worst thing that happened to him was failing in business, and did he end up on the street?  Was his credit rating pranged?  Did he try to kill himself so that his wife and kids would get the life insurance money?

      No.  The man has had everything handed to him on a platter.  Struggle?  LOL

      Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! http://www.angrytoyrobot.blogspot.com The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

      by angrytoyrobot on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:21:54 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The reason we are building those permanent bases (5+ / 0-)

    is because as long as we're there, we are a focus for Arab frustration. Without that it becomes hard to justify a Global War on Terror and big defense budgets. You can't make money on a war if you don't have an enemy to fight. The bigger the better, as long as you think you can win. They thought Iraq was going to easy pickings.

    The War Oligarchs make a mint gambling with the lives and dollars of the American taxpayer, to say nothing of our victims. We must end the Empire and change from a War economy to an Innovation economy.

    "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." -- Groucho Marx

    by rolandzebub on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:12:14 PM PST

  •  I tried to be snarky in this comment... (9+ / 0-)

    But I just can't.  These guys see through all of the Bullshit.  This whole thing is nothing more than saving face for Dubya.  ICG or no ICG, this criminal enterprise is just gunna spin and deny reality.  The one guy got it right.  Nothing is going to happen until the 2008 election.  And it probably will not happen until after Jan. 20, 2009.  At that pace, another 1700 Americans will be gone forever.

    Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. Luke 2:14

    by RichM on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:12:35 PM PST

  •  I am watching Bush's response right now (13+ / 0-)

    and I have to say it looks like didn't sleep last night.

    He has those bags under his eyes. Remember how Clinton always had bags under his eyes?

    This is the first time I have seen Bush tired. In fact. I want to see bags under his eyes until he leaves office. Just so I know he's working. Or at least can't sleep.

    ... we now know a lot of things, most of which, we already knew... (-dash888)

    by Tirge Caps on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:12:36 PM PST

  •  ISG Conclusions? Stay the course, of course! (0+ / 0-)

    Bush/Cheney wants to continue reaping the blood money profits from their illegal imperialist war of choice, war OF terror to steal Iraqi oil revenues and U.S. tax dollars.

    Only the direct intervention from the Democrats can end this madness.

  •  Bush should listen to the troops (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ablington, Big Nit Attack, daeros, TomP

    He clearly won't listen to anyone else.

    But if he doesn't, maybe the new Democratic Congress will step up to the plate?

    Hope springs eternal.

    "Control of the initiative is control of the battle. In the alley, at the poker table or in politics. One must raise." David Mamet

    by coral on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:13:04 PM PST

  •  About that sergeant from Livonia, MI (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ablington, Pesto, Miss Blue, kilo50, daeros

    His congressman--and mine--is Thaddeus McCotter (R-Clueless). Just weeks ago, Thin-Skinned Thad said that there was no alternative to "victory" in Iraq. Yes, victory.

    "The Rose Bowl is not a consolation. It's the greatest tradition in college football."--Michigan coach Lloyd Carr.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:16:29 PM PST

  •  this diary makes an interesting companion piece.. (4+ / 0-)

    to the PTSD diaries.

    I wouldn't believe Bush if his tongue became notarized (h/t to shanti2)

    by billlaurelMD on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:17:36 PM PST

  •  These guys are bored... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kilo50, daeros

    ... which I guess can be good or bad.

    My friend's fiancee just got back from Iraq (7 month tour). He is a Marine. He said he spent two months doing intense counter-insurgency operations in and around Fallujah (which just made the people madder when they had to blow up houses to get to the people shooting at them) and five months at an air base in the middle of nowhere doing jack-shit because it was in the Sunni triangle and it wasn't safe for Americans to conduct ANY operations in the area.

    And we need to ramp up the number of troops, according to St. McCain, because...

    •  Talk about pointless... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kilo50, Phil S 33, Delta Terp

      As the situation gets more out of control, and U.S. troops start withdrawing to bases, the only mission of the U.S. military in Iraq becomes ... protecting the U.S. military in Iraq.

      You see, we've GOT to keep our trops there, to protect our troops there. Maybe someone in Washington can explain the logic of this, but to me it just seems tragic and pointless.

  •  Agreed (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros, Molly Martinez

    The effort to save Bush some face is not worth one of these soldiers’ lives. Not a damn one.

    Besides: Saving Bush's "face" would be just another exercize in futility.

    "Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization" - Eugene Debs -8.88 -5.08

    by SecondComing on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:21:02 PM PST

  •  Im visiting my husbands family for Christmas (7+ / 0-)

    this year, after a two year hiatus. Last time I was there his conservative brother in law was touting the 'theyve built schools and hospitals but the media doesnt report it' line. Im curious to see if he brings up Iraq at all. Its been quite some time since Ive heard the schools/hospitals line being floated. And it seems like more troops than ever are dissatisfied with the whole operation.

    1.Gore 2.Edwards 3.Obama 4. H Clinton 5.Clark 6. Vilsacktacular Relentless!

    by ablington on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:21:25 PM PST

    •  Good luck... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kilo50, daeros

      Keep your cool and don't gloat.

      Hard indeed, I would be in their face the whole time.

      I don't see my "Rightie" family any more (my Wife's family).

      -6.5, -7.59. The ice is melting, the White Witch is losing her power

      by DrWolfy on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:31:22 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I cant gloat. Im still too new to the family (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        daeros

        to go into full-on Liberal mode without damaging my developing reputation. Someday!

        1.Gore 2.Edwards 3.Obama 4. H Clinton 5.Clark 6. Vilsacktacular Relentless!

        by ablington on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:33:10 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Maybe, if they're anything like my late ... (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          ablington, Miss Blue, kilo50

          ...stepfather's rightwing, fundamentalist siblings, you can just offer up a prayer for "the tens of thousands of people Bush's policy has caused to be killed for no good reason. Amen."

          •  In addition to the wingnut brother in law (0+ / 0-)

            I have 3 adorable young nieces who think dinosaurs walked alongside men and that their Catholic grandma isnt a real Christian. Its pretty tough not to get preachy, especially since I know the girls really like me and think Im cool. Im trying to think of subtle things to say...

            I havent been asked to lead a prayer yet. Maybe cuz Id say something like what you wrote.

            Actually I really like the wingnut brother in law. I have a feeling he would enjoy arguing with a real Liberal, up to a point.

            1.Gore 2.Edwards 3.Obama 4. H Clinton 5.Clark 6. Vilsacktacular Relentless!

            by ablington on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:48:19 PM PST

            [ Parent ]

    •  Probably won't bring it up (0+ / 0-)

      A close friend of mine is a Republican. We used to discuss politics constantly...now, he rarely even brings it up and usually turns the topic when it does come up. In fact, I can't even say with certainty how he voted this year, since he certainly didn't seem upset that we won. Of course, after a couple of beers he dropped the "Bush is an idiot" line, so maybe I do know how he voted.

  •  Sgt Wiacik's Opinion Chills Me. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Cartoon Peril, arbiter

    As do all of them; but specifically, his suspicion that the govt. will be 'Catapulting' this issue into 2008 is a horrifying prediction of recklessness at its worst.

    I really hope that people take these first hand reactions to heart. It is these brave men and women who have the most to lose.

    ::::

    "Let's put a shoe in there!" ~ Haywood Nelson

    by nowheredesign on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:24:42 PM PST

  •  CA (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SusanG, diplomatic

    NY, MI, CT, IL...

    so much for this being a redstate war where the libruls have no clue of sacrifice.

  •  totally heartbreaking.... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    TomP

    seems to sum it up

    there is nothing else to say other then

    get our troops outta Iraq already

    "if all the world's a stage, who is sitting in the audience?"

    by KnotIookin on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:27:42 PM PST

  •  voting (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    daeros

    Has anyone studied how the armed forces voted last month?  Are they still Republican leaning?

  •  Not Just Bush (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pesto, mango, Molly Martinez

    What is happening in Washington is shameful. The establishment is seeking 'face saving' for not just for Bush but for all of the idiots who furthered the lies that convinced the American people to support the war on Iraq. This encompasses all the conservatives and many democrats and most of the pundits and press corps as well.

    The American people however don't care about who comes out of this mess looking good or who comes out of this mess looking bad. We simply want it to be over. Get out of Iraq. Leave Iraq to the Iraqis. And never, never, never, lie to us again about the reasons for waging war in a far off foreign land.

  •  Matthew Iglesias's right-on comment ... (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Pesto, kilo50, Molly Martinez

    ...in The American Prospect yesterday:

    High-profile political debate on Iraq is bad for Republicans, who supported the administration's war policy in lockstep until it was much too late. Democrats, as a whole, should benefit from an absence of political bridges. But pressing the political advantage on Iraq will, naturally, shift the balance of power inside the party away from Bush's hawkish collaborators in favor of war opponents better positioned for political confrontation. Bipartisan adoption of the ISG's recommendations, in other words, may not solve America's Iraq problem, but it just might solve the Iraq problem facing the bipartisan American national security elite that got the country into this mess.

  •  Bush looked bushwacked today as he got the report (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miss Blue, kilo50, daeros, Randall Sherman

    But the fucking idiot jsut wont say what needs to be done.
    Heres what he needs to do.

    • Agree that he has fucked up
    • Agree that the agenda for invasion was based on pure lies
    • Then resign (with dickie C in tow)
    • Then allow Pelosi to ascend to the throne
    • And a speedy withdrawal begins

    Now that will go along way towards solving this issue.

    Otherwise as we saw today, the 10 US soldiers who died there today will be joined by hundreds more as, as GWB tries to save face.

    •  Bush doesn't have a face in the world. (0+ / 0-)

      He doesn't.  He has ALREADY LOST FACE.  We just UNDERLINED THAT FACT ON NOVEMBER 7th.

      I don't give a flying flip whether or not Bush wants to avoid being uncomfortable.  I care ONLY about our troops, and getting them home safe.

      Fuck Bush.  If he wants to stay in Iraq, hop on board of Air Force One, take your F'ing Administration of draft dodging chickenhawks with you and drop yourselves off in Iraq and have at it.

      BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW.  If we don't SCREAM THIS, THEY ARE GOING TO BE STUCK THERE.

      Fuck Bush.

      We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. -Martin Luther King.

      by Eyes Wide Open on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 06:40:56 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  That's my sister batallion (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kilo50, daeros, Molly Martinez

    and from my friends and contacts in 2-37 it is clear that they hate being stuck in Iraq.

  •   Not a damn one (0+ / 0-)

    Warrantless Domestic Spying, Total Information Awareness, and data mining are the tools of communists.

    by LandSurveyor on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:37:46 PM PST

  •  How much longer (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Miss Blue, mango, klnb1019

    "How much longer do we have to get shot at or blown up?"

    That belongs on a t-shirt.  Or three hundred million of them.  It should be on billboards all over the country.

    "...the big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart." -- Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

    by Roddy McCorley on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:43:37 PM PST

  •  More "magical thinking?" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kilo50, North Central

     I keep hearing this idea that somehow, the Iraqis have to be forced to take responsibility for their country.

     Isn't that just a politer way of saying "Stop this shit?"

    It's this kind of 'strong leader' rhetoric that has worked so well in calming the middle east, and is so simple to understand. What's the problem with those people?

    Meanwhile, listening to  All Things Considered, on the way home, I heard reaction to the Baker-Hamilton report summarized from a redstate.org poll as voting overwhelmingly for "It's time to unleash Hell!"

    Yup. We're down to "Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out." t-shirt logic.

    "No special skill, no standard attitude, no technology, and no organization - no matter how valuable - can safely replace thought itself."

    by xaxnar on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:52:58 PM PST

    •  "Stop this shit" (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      xaxnar, Eyes Wide Open

      Wasn't that how W proposed to end the Israel-Lebanon War last summer -- Kofi Annan was just supposed to call up Syria and tell them to stop this shit?

      Here's a thought: a "bipartisan" delegation of political leaders meets with Bush and tells him to "stop this shit" or they'll impeach his ass.

      How do you ask someone to be the last man or woman to die for a president's ego?

      by litigatormom on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:43:02 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  My buddy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    North Central, Molly Martinez

    ...is in Ramadi now. He just e-mailed me yesterday and referred to the city as "the wild west". Very resigned...Said he can't wait to be home in February.

  •  Bu$hRoveCheneyCo . . . all traitors (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Randall Sherman, Eyes Wide Open

    or imbeciles, take your pick as to which is worse.

    Parker: It's the damn company. What about our lives, you son of a bitch? Ash: I repeat, all other priorities are rescinded.

    by Cartoon Peril on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 01:56:57 PM PST

  •  Yes, heartbreaking, Susan. (2+ / 0-)

    Thank you for posting this, though.

    I imagine things are going to continue to get worse before they get better for everyone involved in this mess. Especially our troops.

    Keeping 'em in my thoughts -- and their families, too, esp. during the holidays.

  •  Compare and contrast (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dump Terry McAuliffe, kilo50, mango

    Thad McCotter of MI-11 is the new Republican Policy Committee Chairman.  He had this to say about the ISG:

    On Iraq, McCotter said the "Fresh Eyes Committee," which he supported, will be issuing its report shortly.

    "It's important to remember that this is not to be the final word on the subject," he said.

    Sgt. Christopher Wiacik, 28, of Livonia, Michigan, is in McCotter's district.  It makes me so sad to see he said this:

    ... We're just sitting around not making any progress. It's annoying. You're not motivated to help anybody. I don't want to live my life like this."

    What is it going to take until Bush's fragile, sad little ego is assuaged?

    I get so mad even thinking that I'm glad the developing "CW" (read the sarcasm dripping from my keys) telling us what most of us knew years ago.

    How sweet it is...

    by lizah on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:09:22 PM PST

    •  McCotter is a piece of work (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      lizah

      And we're going to train a big spotlight on this guy during the next two years. Our supine local media still think he's a thoughtful moderate. Actually he's a right-wing zealot with a thin skin who thinks he's entitled to his House seat by divine right.

      "The Rose Bowl is not a consolation. It's the greatest tradition in college football."--Michigan coach Lloyd Carr.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:49:31 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My diary on him yesterday (0+ / 0-)

        I crossposted at michiganliberal too, but in case you missed it, here you go.

        You and CordeliaLear do a great job of calling him out, and I was late to the discussion, but his "tribal animosities and ancient hatreds" snark as applied to Congress pissed me off.

        How sweet it is...

        by lizah on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 03:34:05 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  Panel: U.S. underreported Iraq violence (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kilo50, mango, North Central

    93 or 1100? What's the difference?

    -
    (AP)

    WASHINGTON - U.S. military and intelligence officials have systematically underreported the violence in
    Iraq in order to suit the Bush administration's policy goals, the bipartisan Iraq Study Group said.

    In its report on ways to improve the U.S. approach to stabilizing Iraq, the group recommended Wednesday that the director of national intelligence and the secretary of defense make changes in the collection of data about violence to provide a more accurate picture.

    The panel pointed to one day last July when U.S. officials reported 93 attacks or significant acts of violence. "Yet a careful review of the reports for that single day brought to light 1,100 acts of violence," it said.

    11/7 Changed Everything

    by Volvo Liberal on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:09:27 PM PST

  •  Lt. Dow said it all (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dump Terry McAuliffe, Dave925

    "U.S. soldiers are dying trying to help people who don't want their help."

    That's as pithy and perceptive as statement as "How can you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake"?

    (And, this is a topic for another post, but why the hell can't John Kerry find his way back to the level of moral clarity he had in 1971?  One of history's most heartbreaking ironies...)

    Somebody please find a good civilian job for Lt. Gerard Dow of Chicago, IL.  Truth-tellers have no career future in this man's army, sad to say.

    "To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg judgment, 1946

    by grassroot on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:19:58 PM PST

  •  On a positive note... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    kilo50

    ...voting for Bob Gates ongoing now in the Senate... unanimous vote, I thought.... but then a couple NO votes from at least a couple wingnut Senators! Santorum and Bunning both voted NO that I noticed! In my mind that must mean Gates is going the be better than anticipated!

  •  I'd like to see a Bush/Cheney withdrawl (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925

    from the Whitehouse by the first quarter of '07.

    I believe Iraq had a lot to do with the election, but I believe there was other factors, as well. - George W. Bush Nov. 8, 2006

    by kitebro on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:26:11 PM PST

  •  Beyond Bush Bashing (0+ / 0-)

    These and other comments recently published exhibit a disturbing lack of reality on the part of the U.S. troops in Iraq. First Lieutenant Gerard Dow well exhibits this asserting,

    In Iraq, we try to win the hearts and minds of the population. They want Americans out of here. They blame us for all their problems. They look at us as the terrorists and then they turn around and help the terrorists who are trying to kill us.... U.S. soldiers are dying trying to help people who don't want their help.

    Iraq was invaded on express charge of "weapons of mass destruction" in an act so patently an aggression, the UN inspectors fruitlessly seeking such weapons had to abandon their search in order to avoid harm to their personnel.

    "To help [the] people" of Iraq was not an explanation of the invasion until at least the second year of occupation. Even if it were the [an?] initial reason, it would constitute "regime change," which violates international law.

    It is not that the troops do not want to leave Iraq, it is that they want to leave regretfully, that they have rationalized their act of aggression into something worthy. So "Spc. Richard Johnson, 20, of Bridgeport, Conn." asserts,

    It's like holding a child's hand. How long can you hold onto his hand before he does something on his own?

    A 20 year old, barely emerged from childhood renders Iraqis children. A 20 year old, barely emerged from childhood, cannot understand the rage of a violated people. A 20 year old, barely emerged from childhood, is so naive as to not understand signficance of his own presence.

    If George W. Bush is to be condemned for his delusion, we must not let it rest with him. His delusion extends to those who fight for him. It is their delusion which worries me more than his. My worry is their delusion extends to the delusion of an entire populace.

    •  So True (0+ / 0-)

      But then the troops are awash in wingnut hate radio and their "news" is carefullt filtered as well.

      Perhaps clear thinking on the part of the vast majority of Americans and the soldiers drawn from us will emerge once honest information reaches them.

      Those who have foisted the hate radio brainwashing sessions on America and her soldiers are quite simply traitors who need to be severely punished.

      You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you mad. -Aldous Huxley

      by Dave925 on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 08:01:04 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Al Weed put it like this... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, Eyes Wide Open

    "There's nothing we can do in Iraq worth losing another soldier for."

    He lost. Thanks a lot, voters.

    I tell you truly, whatever you did for the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. -- Matthew 25:40

    by mSnook on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:38:10 PM PST

  •  I'd settle for any normal... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925

    ..."worst president ever" than have to continue to put up with this sick fuck in the Oval Office now.

  •  Warriers (0+ / 0-)

    These men and women are trained to be warriers.  Not trainers.  Not counselors.  Not cultural liaisons.  They did their job (dethroning SH) - no matter what we think about the origins of that dethroning.  But they know, and we know, that they are now in positions they are untrained for and positions that are unwelcome.  

    We want our military to be warriers - so that when the right reasons for military action arise - we'll have them to protect us and others.  

    Leaving them in country now only puts us at risk (because we'll lose the good warriers who could protect us in the future) and puts them at risk.  In addition, it does nothing to change the chaos on the ground that we have unleashed.

    Out.  Now.  Please.

    Now the hard work begins!

    by klnb1019 on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:49:37 PM PST

  •  Sick day (0+ / 0-)

    The entire U.S. military forces had to take a day off while everyone recovered from a concussion after loudly proclaiming "Duh!!!!!" and smacking their forehead.

    You many now return to your regularly scheduled chaos.
    http://godsdead.blogspot.com

    by becca00 on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 03:15:09 PM PST

  •  They still haven't damned using JEEPs for combat. (0+ / 0-)

    The humvee-jeeps are a bribe-bastard wet dream.

    5900-pounds plus the bullet-proof glass.

    Useless against land mines.

    Triumph of $$$$ over patriotism. $$$$$ over sympathy for our troops. $$$$$ over winning the war.

    If the bastards had taken away full-track armor in WW II, Korea, or Vietnam then the troops would have been able to stop it. Instantly.

    These bastards had kids making "hillbilly armor." and still riding in the damned jeeps.

    While 4,500 30,000-pound M113A3 armored personnel carriers sit unused, outside the combat zones. Assigned to non-combat units.

    These bastards are more corrupt than Frist, Foley, DeLay, and Hastert combined.

    Jeffersonian Democracy and the Dixie Chicks are America's best answers to fascism.

    by vets74 on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 04:53:40 PM PST

  •  Bush's Mental Health (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Eyes Wide Open

    This is the deal, family should have had an intervention when he was drinking taking drugs and he should have gone to rehab. He's a very sick man mentally and spiritually. I'm an addiction counselor.

    Family probably didn't intervene because of their own agenda. Choose to be in denial as well, maybe  fear of their rep. And politics "Uber Alles" for this family.  Addiction runs in the family, one or both of the twins are suspect of a drinking problem as well.

    Bush Sr. in tears yesterday said something revealing, "Barb will probably scold me for breaking down", hmmmmmmmm. Personally I think , she's the Mom from the Manchurian Candidate, gave her son up to the shadow govt.

    Dad weeping, for what? The end of the Bushes in politics, too bad. He should be weeping for his sacrificed sick Capt Quegg son who needs help badly.

    lori

  •  Bush isn't fit to serve with those men (0+ / 0-)

    let alone be their Command in Chief

    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

    by Grant Caesar Peters on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 07:20:17 PM PST

  •  Bush-Baker Iraq conflict of interest or more? (0+ / 0-)

    James Baker watched the 9/11 attacks at the Ritz-Carlton w/ the
    Bin Ladens defends the Saudi's against the 9/11 victim’s lawsuit. He's the Senior Counsel w/ The Carlyle Group, the nation's 10th largest defense contractor, w/ ties to the Bin Ladens.

    After the 2000 election, Bush ordered U.S. intelligence agencies to back off investigating the bin Ladens?

    President Bush: "I truly am not that concerned about him," & Chief Myers: "the goal has never been to get bin Laden."

    Why did Bush pay the Taliban $43M on 5/01, who’ve sheltered bin Laden, allegedly for eliminating opium?-the next year & after bumper crops were reaped? In 5/01, the Bush government issued Visa Express allowing any Saudi a passport w/out appearing in person at the consulate? Both the Bush $43M given to the Taliban & the visas were issued in 5/01, 4 months before 9/11.

    The 9/13/01 private flight from the U.S. by the bin Ladens Bush authorized before other private flights?

    "...many of the bin Laden family are big-time businessmen in the U.S, w/ ties to top-level U.S. politicians. ...the bin Laden family runs the largest Middle East construction co the U.S. uses to construct all its bases & rebuild the ones Osama blows up.

    http://911review.org/...
    http://www.wanttoknow.info/...
    http://www.geocities.com/...
    http://www.hereinreality.com/...

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