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NYT Asks: Will the White Male Monopoly End in 2008?

Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 10:43:18 AM PDT

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Forty Three Exclusively White Male Presidents in 217 Years

Yesterday, Adam Nagourney’s article in The New York Times posed the (paraphrased) question, "Might the 43 consecutive-term exclusively white male monopoly of the American presidency give way to the participation of women and Blacks in 2008?"  Nagourney said this question will turn not on who has the best resume and qualifications, but rather on the question, "Is America ready to elect a woman or an African- American as president?"

A Strange Way to Select the President
 
With a powerful graphic showing all of the 43 consecutive white male presidents, each one with the phrase "white man" listed under his photograph, the article effectively posed the question, "Have we in America traditionally voted for Presidents or have we voted first for a stereotypical sex and color, with individual characteristics considered only secondarily?

After 217 years of white male monopoly, who benefits most by posing the question of who will be our next president in terms of whether America is "ready" to accept a Black or a woman?  

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AFTER a 217-year march of major presidential nominees who were, without exception, white and male, the 2008 campaign may offer voters a novel choice. But as Barack Obama, the senator from Illinois whose father is from Kenya, spends this weekend exploring a presidential bid in New Hampshire, and Hillary Rodham Clinton, the first woman to represent New York in the Senate, calls potential supporters in Iowa, the question remains: are Americans prepared to elect an African-American or a woman as president?  ADAM NAGOURNEY ARTICLE

Perhaps, the sheer weight of mathematical probability suggests that we have traditionally voted principally on the basis of gender and color and only secondarily voted on the basis of individual qualifications.

Ex-US Senator Bob Blackman Enters the Presidential Race

Yesterday, another African-American man, ex-US Senator Bob Blackman of Georgia threw his hat into the presidential race, saying, "I’m running for President because my resume makes it clear: I am the best man for the job."  He said his resume is the only political literature that his campaign will offer.

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This early assertion of resume supremacy immediately focused reporters' attention on Blackman's resume itself, and they doubted it supports Blackman’s claims, comparing it unfavorably to those of other candidates who have already announced.  "Obviously, people are going to study this resume closely to see if it supports his claims," said one analyst.  

After looking the resume over, one reporter chided, "Where’s the beef?"

He said Blackman’s experience as a trial lawyer and one term in the Senate did not make him the best candidate, but others disagreed.  Reporters particularly pointed out his short Senate career and his lack of previous public policy experience.

The Brief Career Resume of Senator Bobby Blackman

Bobby "Bob" Reid Blackman (born June 10, 1953) was the Democratic 2004 nominee for a Georgia US Senate seat, and a one-term former Democratic Senator from Georgia.

Blackman was a trial lawyer for twenty years before entering politics. He defeated incumbent Republican Cloth Launchfair, in Georgia's 1998 Senate election.  In 2004, Blackman formed the One America Committee and was appointed director of the Center on Poverty, Work and Opportunity at the University of Georgia School of Law and is also now a consultant to an investment bank in New York.

Early life and education

Blackman was born on June 10, 1953, to Wallace R. Blackman and Kathryn Juanita Wade in Seneca, South Carolina. The family moved several times during Blackman' childhood, eventually settling in Robbins, Georgia, where his father worked in a textile mill and his mother was a postal employee. Blackman was the first person in his family to attend college. He first attended Clemson University and later transferred to Georgia State University.

Blackman graduated with a bachelor's degree in textile technology in 1974, and later earned his law degree from the University of Georgia at Chapel Hill, both with honors. While at UNC, he met a fellow law student, they married, and have four children.

Legal career

Both Blackman and his wife began private practice with law firms in Nashville, Tennessee. Blackman became an associate at the law firm of Ewing & Dearborn in 1978, doing primarily trial work, defending a Nashville bank and other corporate clients. Before entering politics, Blackman was a personal injury trial attorney, specializing in corporate negligence and medical malpractice claims. Blackman 2003 financial disclosure forms showed a total net worth between $12.8 and $60 million, which he earned through his trial successes.
 
Blackman's first important case was a 1984 medical malpractice lawsuit. In that case, Blackman won a $3.7 million verdict on behalf of his client who suffered permanent brain and nerve damage after a doctor prescribed a drug overdose of anti-alcoholism drug Antabuse. In 1985, Blackman obtained a $5.75 million settlement in a cerebral palsy case for medical malpractice during childbirth. This established the Georgia precedent of physician and hospital liability for failing to determine if patient understood risks of a particular procedure.

Blackman won the biggest case of his legal career on behalf of Cary, Georgia girl, Valerie Lakey, who was disemboweled by the suction power of the pool drain pump when she sat on an open pool drain whose protective cover other children at the pool had removed, after the municipality had failed to install the cover properly.  Mark Dayton, editor of Georgia Lawyers Weekly, would later call it "the most impressive legal performance I have ever seen." The jury awarded the Lakeys $25 million, the largest personal injury award in Georgia history. For their part in this case, Blackman and law partner David Kirby earned the Association of Trial Lawyers of America's national award for public service.

As part of an unsuccessful run for the presidency in 2004, Blackman published Four Trials, a biographical book focusing on cases from his legal career.

Senate term

Blackman won election to the U.S. Senate in 1998 against incumbent Republican Senator Lauch Faircloth. Despite originally being the underdog, Blackman beat Launchfair by 51.2% to 47.0% - a margin of some 83,000 votes.  However, after one term in the US Senate, Blackman declined to run for reelection to the Senate in 2004 in order to solely focus on his presidential run. Blackman announced his retirement from the Senate and supported another Democrat who was defeated by a Republican in race to fill Blackman’s Senate seat.

During President Bill Clinton's 1999 impeachment trial in the Senate, Blackman was responsible for the deposition of witnesses Monica Lewinsky and fellow Democrat Vernon Jordan; Clinton was acquitted.
Blackman served on the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and U.S. Senate Committee on Judiciary.

Blackman co-sponsored co-sponsored Senator Joe Lieberman's Iraq War Resolution, and also later voted for it in the full Senate, authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. Blackman also supported and voted for the Patriot Act. Among other positions, Blackman generally supported abortion rights, affirmative action, and the death penalty. He also advocated rolling back the Bush administration's tax cuts and ending mandatory minimum sentencing for non-violent offenders.

Blackman supported the expansion of the H-1B visa program to increase legal immigration into the United States. Blackman generally supported expanding legal immigration to the United States while working with Mexico to provide better border security and stop illegal trafficking.

Actually, the photograph above is of    Kenneth I. Chenault,  Chairman and CEO of American Express, who is not running for President at this time.  However, the resume presented above is that of ex-US Senator    John Edwards, who is running for President, but transposed to the state of Georgia for the sake of this exercise.    

The purpose of this exercise is to pose the question, "If John Edwards were a Black man or a woman, would anybody argue, based on the above resume, that he was "best qualified for the job" of President of the United States?  

Doesn't John Edwards' relatively light resume actually support the opposite contention:  that we have tended to nominate candidates first on the basis of gender and color and then only afterward, only secondarily on the basis of their individual qualifications?

How much of the fact that we can perceive John Edwards as potentially "most qualified" actually derives from the fact that he is a white man and, therefor, fits the historical hegemonic monopoly stereotype of what a "most qualified" President looks like?  

This question of skin-color and gender "profiling" reaches beyond the Presidency into every corner of our society and all of our endeavors.  Can Americans be allowed to succeed, or fail, simply by appearing to be qualified or unqualified by virtue of their skin-color and gender?  If so, will their actual competencies on the job fit neatly with our historical stereotypes or will reality intervene to contradict what skin-color and gender tell us "must be" true about people?

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Adam Nagourney clearly believes the extraneous factors of skin-color and gender have been central to our decision-making, and he offers a powerful reality-based graphic to prove it.  And yet the graphic represents perhaps the last uncontested "spider-hole" of the color and sex-based competence paradigm - the US Presidency.

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White male candidates clearly would benefit by keeping the focus on a comparison of resumes, if the woman and Black man running were indeed less qualified than the white male candidates; simply choosing the best resumes from among the bunch would exclude the woman and Black man from competition, if they were indeed less qualified.  

So, does the media focus on the gender and color of minorities and women in an effort to help women and minorities obtain the Oval Office by distracting the public attention from deficient resumes?  Or does the media focus on gender and color to pre-empt and derail the discussion of whom is most qualified, so that we can, once again, vote on the basis of historical stereotypes, unconsciously but, in fact, ignoring the resumes of the actual candidates?

The preoccupation with candidate gender and color encourages and seduces us to bypass resumes and qualifications entirely, and focus instead  on stereotypical notions of who is most qualified based on American traditions of color-aroused and gender-aroused bias.  Paradoxically, the only way to achieve an even-handed evaluation of resumes in a diverse field is to first acknowledge the traditional role of gender and color in evaluating those resumes.

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, president, gender, race, 2008 elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 157 comments

    •  Tag abuse. (21+ / 0-)

      I'm going to be pre-emptive here since this has been an issue recently.  People, deleting the tags that classify francis' diary is tag abuse.  Please don't do it.

      Adding creative, insulting tags expressing your opinion of the diary is tag abuse.  Please don't do it.

    •  Edwards actually established Legal precedents (4+ / 0-)

      in North Carolina law in one of the cases he won.. Which protects patients within NC...  So I'd argue getting patients rights is actually a significant accomplishment.

      Besides being Bill's husband and alienating the right wing you could argue Hillary's resume is not any better than Edwardses and for that matter Obama's.

      You better hope Hillary gets Obama on the ticket to have people actually like voting for her.

      I think without realizing it you are actually showing that all of the front runners fail to meet high "qualification standards"    but I think being smart  is more important than spending lots of time in office.

      In general the lesser qualified candidate (less time in office actually wins)

      GW Bush beat  Kerry
      Gw Bush beat Al Gore
      Bill Clinton beat Bob Dole (in the senate 30 years)
      Bill Clinton Beat George Bush VP for 8 years
      Ronal REagan Beat Jimmy Carter

      the more "qualified" candidate usually loses in the presidential election.

      •  why do presidents win general elections (2+ / 0-)

        It has little to do with qualifications.

        1. likeability
        1.  relate-ability
        1. trust-ability...

        are the reasons people win general elections...

        also,

        if you wanted to make an argument for a non-white male to win based strictly on qualifications.

        Bill Richardson

        should be in your diary otherwise it is simply a bash-edwards diary which is fine Too.. lord knows I bash Hillary.

      •  GWB stole it from Gore (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Ahianne, CocoaLove, Caldonia, blueyedace2, kaye

        Gore would have won by a landslide if:

        1. Clinton kept his pants on,
        1. Media did it's job and played a fair and neutral arbiter, and
        1. Nader attacked Bush instead of mischaracterizing Gore (he would have actually got 5% for Greens along with Gore winning, had he done the right thing)

        Gore would have won comfortably (7-8% margin of victory, 350 electoral college votes), even if only one of the first two held.

        As is, he still won the popular vote, and almost certainly won Florida

        McCain & Clinton = WAR Authorizers | Veep prefs for Obama: 1. Sebelius 2. Richardson

        by NeuvoLiberal on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:05:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  the general thesis still holds (0+ / 0-)

          when ranking winners in presidential primaries the less time spent in washington DC the more likely the person is to win...

          that's why senators lose to governors and non-office holders can beat sitting presidents (Reagan v. Carter)

        •  The media will NEVER do that (0+ / 0-)

          If Media did it's job and played a fair and neutral arbiter, and

          If that's what it takes for Gore to be elected, then he'll NEVER be elected.  Seriously, when has the media ever been a "fair and neutral arbiter"?  They're owned by multinational corporations and rich people, after all!  They're never going to give our candidates a fair break.  We have to find a way to communicate with the public IN SPITE of the media's behavior, not win only in cases where the media is well-behaved.

          Clinton managed to build up a seventy percent job approval rating and become more popular, even though and perhaps BECAUSE he successfully dealt with the media's attempts to destroy him.  That's the type of politician we need.

          The media had a never-ending fascination for Clinton's sex-life to the exclusion of his substantive policy efforts. Bill Clinton made headway anyway.

          Nader could easily come back in 2008 or be replaced by another pseudo-Nader.  Clinton ran against a third-party candidate in 1992 and won anyway.  A candidate who says he can win "only if", and then posits a list of conditions that are not going to be fulfilled anytime soon, is not the best candidate for us.

          •  asdf (0+ / 0-)

            They're owned by multinational corporations and rich people, after all!  They're never going to give our candidates a fair break.  We have to find a way to communicate with the public IN SPITE of the media's behavior, not win only in cases where the media is well-behaved.

            Fair enough. But, you need to look at exactly what happened that year. It was manifestly awful and too much for one person to handle or even a campaign to handle. And, in 2000, there NO REAL way to counter the media's nonsense (unlike in 2004, when we have some resistance from the netroots, and in 2008, we'll be a lot more powerful).

            This article shed light on the unbelievable scale of the attacks on Gore:

               February 1, 2000
               Al Gore v. the Media

               By Robert Parry

               To read the major newspapers and to watch the TV pundit shows, one can't avoid the impression that many in the national press corps have decided that Vice President Al Gore is unfit to be elected the next president of the United States.

               Across the board -- from The Washington Post to The Washington Times, from The New York Times to the New York Post, from NBC's cable networks to the traveling campaign press corps -- journalists don't even bother to disguise their contempt for Gore anymore.

               At one early Democratic debate, a gathering of about 300 reporters in a nearby press room hissed and hooted at Gore's answers. Meanwhile, every perceived Gore misstep, including his choice of clothing, is treated as a new excuse to put him on a psychiatrist's couch and find him wanting.

               Journalists freely call him "delusional," "a liar" and "Zelig." Yet, to back up these sweeping denunciations, the media has relied on a series of distorted quotes and tendentious interpretations of his words, at times following scripts written by the national Republican leadership.

               In December, for instance, the news media generated dozens of stories about Gore's supposed claim that he discovered the Love Canal toxic waste dump. "I was the one that started it all," he was quoted as saying. This "gaffe" then was used to recycle other situations in which Gore allegedly exaggerated his role or, as some writers put it, told "bold-faced lies."

               But behind these examples of Gore's "lies" was some very sloppy journalism. The Love Canal flap started when The Washington Post and The New York Times misquoted Gore on a key point and cropped out the context of another sentence to give readers a false impression of what he meant.

               The error was then exploited by national Republicans and amplified endlessly by the rest of the news media, even after the Post and Times grudgingly filed corrections.

            Clinton managed to build up a seventy percent job approval rating and become more popular, even though and perhaps BECAUSE he successfully dealt with the media's attempts to destroy him.  That's the type of politician we need.

            Clinton was good with deflecting the scandals. His job approvals were good because he WAS doing a good job, as was Gore and they were a good team (for getting things done). Gore's job approval were in the 60-70% range during Clinton/Gore.

            The media had a never-ending fascination for Clinton's sex-life to the exclusion of his substantive policy efforts. Bill Clinton made headway anyway.

            Clinton would have had a harder time to win in 1992, had it not been for for Gore being on the ticket. Clinton's favorability sharply rose from picking Gore. He gained the lead for the first time in 1992 following a flurry of nationwide editorial praising Gore and Clinton's choice of Gore. Gore helped Clinton carry many states in the south, despite Bush Sr being (technically) from TX.

            Nader could easily come back in 2008 or be replaced by another pseudo-Nader.

            Yes, but don't forget that Nader got under 1% in 2004, and netroots will be around to set the record straight on lies from them as well.

            Clinton ran against a third-party candidate in 1992 and won anyway.

            Wrong logic. Perot helped Clinton by:

            1.bashing Bush day in and day out

            1. implicitly endorsing Clinton/Gore when he in between dropped out.
            1. he pulled a couple of pctg votes more from Clinton than Bush.

            OTOH, Nader attacked Gore 24/7/365.

            Don't forget the:

            Fundamental Gore/Clinton calculus: Gore helped Clinton win in 1992 heavily, worked day and night to make their administration a success, but Clinton in turn badly hurt Al Gore with his indiscretion and impeachment.

            A candidate who says he can win "only if", and then posits a list of conditions that are not going to be fulfilled anytime soon, is not the best candidate for us.

            Gore still won before the supreme court snatched it for Bush. He got caught in the middle of too much nonsense (how often is a President caught having a blowjob in the oval office, and lying to the American public, and explaining the meaning of "is"?)

            ps: Clinton only got 43% in 1992, and 49% in 1996. Had Perot not run in 1996, Clinton would have got about 53%, which is hardly a good victory for a sitting President with strong record over Dole. Clinton's electoral skills are WAY over-rated.

            McCain & Clinton = WAR Authorizers | Veep prefs for Obama: 1. Sebelius 2. Richardson

            by NeuvoLiberal on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:17:13 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  We need another candidate like Clinton! (0+ / 0-)

              Clinton was good with deflecting the scandals.

              I would submit to you and all dailykos readers that this above criteria is a sine qua non, (that without which there is nothing).  NONE of our candidates can win without a well-developed ability to deflect scandal because the Republican National Committee and their entire apparatus is nothing but a big scandal and personality smear generation machine.  

              Any candidate who doesn't know how to deal with this already really shouldn't be in the race at all.

              We're going to spend 500 MILLION dollars trying to make someone President in 2008, and we simply cannot afford to put boxing clothes on people who have never been by themselves in the boxing ring before.  

              Judge the candidate's ability to deflect scandals as you will, but we discount the need for that crucial characteristic only "at our own peril", if you'll pardon the phrase.

              •  It is easier to deflect scandals (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Vico

                When they have been fabricated, as was the case with the majority of the Clinton 'scandals'.

                So it seems to me it would be better to focus on finding candidates who are unlikely to have any real scandals, so that deflecting any imaginary ones that pop up will be a piece of cake.

                Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes, because then you are a mile away and have their shoes.

                by Flinch on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:44:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  But, Clinton made the scandals (0+ / 0-)

                with his actions in the first place.

                It's time to dispense with naughty play masters and rebuild the nation's democracy from ground up, and return power to the people where it belongs.

                That's why Al Gore will make the best President we can possible have. Al Gore offers the most thoughtful, the most visionary leadership at a time the needs it most, as powerfully articulate by Brent Budowsky of the Huffington Post:

                Brent Budowsky
                Huffington Post, 12.10.2006

                To Al Gore And All Potential Presidents: About the Next Historical Era of American Patriotic Reform, National Unity and World Leadership

                If ever there was a man or woman with the experience, judgment, temperament, intellect, stature and knowledge to lead our country through these dangerous waters, it is you, it is here, it is now, and this is why.

                Mr. Vice President, you have the power to personally transform and elevate our national debate, as you have done with global warming, in ways that will lift the standards of the Democratic Party, lift the discourse of our American democracy, and lift the spirit of a Nation ready to have a serious discussion of the post-Bush era.

                I have only positive things to say about every Democrat considering running for President. Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Edwards, Barack Obama, Evan Bayh, Chris Dodd, Tom Vilsack, Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Wes Clark, are all enormously talented and gifted and any one of them could grow into the role of the next FDR, Truman or Kennedy.

                I believe Democrats should enter 2007 with our version of Ronald Reagan's Eleventh Commandmant and spend 2007 praising them all, and listening to their leadership.

                But you, Mr. Vice President, are different.

                Never in the history of either political party can I think of any potential candidate or potential President as commander-in-chief qualified as you are, today.

                After eight years of a catastrophic President so uninterested in world affairs that he did not even travel the world as a student, tourist or Governor before assuming the most powerful job on earth I believe that qualifications, experience, judgment and knowledge will be the hallmark qualities needed in our next President.

                McCain & Clinton = WAR Authorizers | Veep prefs for Obama: 1. Sebelius 2. Richardson

                by NeuvoLiberal on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:48:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, but so have MANY lawyers (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        jxg

        I personally know more than a few people who have taken cases to the US Supreme Court or state supreme courts, but I wouldn't have thought they all were eligible to be president on that basis alone.

        •  there are only 2 eligibility (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          means are the ends

          standards for being president.

          1.  35 years old
          1.  native born US citizen...

          other than that there are  NO qualifications to be president.

          1. likeability  (Edwards yes, obama yes, hillary no)
          1.  trustability (Edwards/Obama probably for most -  HIllary probably not for most particularly after the right wing noise machine is done with her).
          1.  relateability (Edwards yes/ obama yes; hillary no).

          therefore I will vote for edwards or Obama if I have a choice.

    •  Do you really want a black male? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      NeuvoLiberal, droogie6655321

      or is this just blackmail?

      Yet it is not our part to master all the tides of the world, but to do what is in us for the succour of those years wherein we are set... -- Gandalf

      by dnta on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:14:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Your Edwards thing doesn't hold up. (11+ / 0-)

    Edwards has been repeatedly accused of not having the qualifications.  It was an issue in 2004, for sure.  So you're really reaching on the facts there.

    •  Alright. Then why are we considering him? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Caldonia
      •  We're also considering Obama, (9+ / 0-)

        who has only been in the senate for 2 years.

        •  Would you rather have (0+ / 0-)

          Obama with 2 years of experience, or McCain who has 24 years experience in the Senate, and was a hero of the Vietnam War? Just asking.

          You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

          by tazz on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:16:08 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Now we're looking beyond color to experience! (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Annalize5

          That's a great thing!  Obama has about as much experience now as Ewards did when he began plotting his run for the presidency. Obama will have been a sitting Senator for 4 years in 2008.

          But, he also has 8 years experience as a state legislator before he entered the US Senate.

          Let's look at their whole resumes, line for line, compare them line for line to our progressive instincts, and ask ourselves who has the most and best experience?

          •  George McGovern and Mike Dukakis (0+ / 0-)

            winning a presidential election takes a lot more than a resume - the dems lose when they nominate someone based on a political resume.

            Obama is doing better than he is otherwise because of his race and Hillary is doing better than she would otherwise because of her gender.

            The more people her Obama speak the more they will think he sounds a lot like Joe Lieberman.

            If Hillary were a man, there's no way she would be presidential material.. however, precisely because the premise of this diary is wrong she is actually competitive.

            •  Anybody identified with health care has a chance (0+ / 0-)

              I think that any nationally know candidate with a record of working for universal health care would have a platform from which to mount a candidadacy in 2008.

              I notice that Barack Obama said he was for universal health care while campaigning in New Hampshire this weekend.

              I hope all of our candidates have announced that they are for it by 2008, although none of them can make their announcements retroactive to 1993, when Hillary made this her issue.

            •  Lieberman vs Obama (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Dump Terry McAuliffe

              I think that the the more people hear Obama the worse Lieberman sounds.

              Authentic appeals to what unites and inspires end up exposing fake "bipartisanship."

              The premier political debate coverage site: DebateScoop

              by demondeac on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:07:35 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Hillary and Obama (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        MeanBoneII

        are also weak if you just want to look at their "qualifications" in a color and gender blind fasion.

        If Hilllary was a male and not married to an ex-president she'd be polling in the Joe Biden territory.

        People want a president that they think will look out for them and will make them feel a part of something or a movement.

        •  Exactly. If her name were "Hillary Smith"... (0+ / 0-)

          She'd be a backbench senator with a dodgy voting record and a reputation for being one of the most ferocious hawks in the Democratic rookery. And she definitely would not be in the presidential dance mix, notwithstanding the fact that she represents New York.

          Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:21:34 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Because people don't vote for a political resume. (0+ / 0-)

        The top three contenders as of now are a woman (Clinton), a black man (Obama), and a white man (Edwards). None have particularly long political careers. The same can be said of a number of past presidents.

        •  Ditto (0+ / 0-)

          The logic of this experiment is flawed, but the idea of changing names, race, geography to make a point is a good idea.  

          Edwards is being considered because he has that Clinton ability to make you believe he cares.  Obama has the same ability.  Hence, they have "light" resumes, but they are contenders.  

          •  what does hillary have? (0+ / 0-)

            besides bill.

            a serious question>>  

            besides being a woman and being married to Bill..

            what qualities (notice I did not say qualifications) does hillary have that will help her win the general?

            •  obviously haven't read her resume (0+ / 0-)

              she was more qualified to be governour of arkansas than bill but he got it because she was a woman. she did more as a first lady policy-wise than most any senator ever does. and you so sexistly argue she only has 'bill' as her qualifications? what ignorance. if you don't like her - because you've eaten up the right wing talking points so thoroughly you don't even see them as that any more - say so, but don't dare belittle all she's done as a PERSON.

              •  again (0+ / 0-)

                what qualities do you think  - not qualifications - does hillary  have.

                upthread someone said they think Obama and Edwards can make people "think" they care about them.

                do people think hillary is warm?

                do people think hillary is charismatic?

                do people think hillary is trustworthy?  etc...

                what personal qualities does hrc have that would outside of her name and money make her a top tier candidate.

              •  She believes that torture (0+ / 0-)

                can sometimes be justified.  That's a killer for her candidacy for me.  I refuse to vote for someone who would approve of torture under ANY circumstances. That's un-American and evil.

                •  She doesn't believe that. (0+ / 0-)

                  She's just opposing torture while being careful not to seem extreme.

                  For example, would you inflict pain on someone who was holding your child by the throat?  I would!  

                  Does that mean I believe in torture?  No, it certainly doesn't.  But, if one gets to categorical then everyone will know one is either full of crap or very different from most people.

                  Bill Clinton's government wasn't known for torture, and I don't expect Hillary's administration to be any different.

                  The past year's yield on a farm is as important for prediction purposes as any other indicator, including whatever comes out of the farmer's mouth.

            •  Money and establishment support (0+ / 0-)

              That is it. The Democratic Party mandarins are using her as a blunt instrument to keep the netroots, the grassroots, and outsiders of all description away from the levers of power.

              Their strategy is to serve up Hillary Rodham Clinton as the pre-ordained nominee months in advance of the primaries and command us to fall in line behind her. And that will cause enormous--and perhaps irreparable--damage to the party.

              Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

              by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:24:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I'm not saying I'm right, but "Let's study this!" (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Annalize5
  •  Meh. (4+ / 0-)

    Talk of qualifications is silly, IMO.  People have different ideas of what qualifies someone to be president.  I have two qualifications, neither of which is dependent on the length of someone's resume (leadership ability and judgment).

    The fact that Hillary & Obama have been annointed as the Democratic front-runners leads me to believe that race and/or gender are not currently viewed as necessarily excluding candidates.

    And I would not use any article by Adam Nagourney (one of the worst reporters in the country) as support for any diary here.

    •  Nagourney's graphic is right on substance! (0+ / 0-)

      We do all have very different senses of what makes people qualified, and it's going to take a really great effort for each of us to tease out what part of our qualifications are based on traditional stereotypes.

      At some point, I'm going to want to look at what makes a candidate "look Presidential".  Somehow, I have a feeling that's going to be relevant to our discussion and we're going to have to dig deep to deal with it.

  •  um (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    francislholland, PhantomFly

    Blackman was not the Democratic nominee for the U.S. Senate seat in Georgia in 2004 as you claim. That was Denise Majette, another African-American.

    •  You're right. This candidacy is a hypothetical (1+ / 0-)

      to study the influence of skin-color and gender on our consideration of who is "most qualified.

      As you note, this hypothetical really has nothing to do with the state of Georgia.  It poses the question, if John Edwards were black, would his resume be sufficient for us to vote for him and say that we were voting for "the most qualified candidate".  Or would he suddenly become incredible as the "most qualified candidate" if he did not have on his side our traditional stereotypical notions and the role that color and gender play in making a person "qualified"?

      •  People who decide elections don't use your (0+ / 0-)

        criteria.

        You make the assumption that the 15% of people who decide presidential elections and are not registered dems or republicans vote based on a resume.

        This is just wrong.   The reason dems end up with Dukakis and Kerry as presidential candidates is when they vote on resumes.

        YOu left out the most qualified non-white male candidate Bill Richardson from your diary... I'd urge you to consider adding him

      •  I'll vote for Obama before Hillary anyday (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Dump Terry McAuliffe

        I'm probably not the only kossack who votes for president based on the whole package rather than a resume..

        •  Yes, and the #1 reason is Iraq (0+ / 0-)

          She's on the wrong side of that issue and it's too late for her to make amends. She'll spend the rest of her political life regretting her poor judgment in October 2002.

          Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:27:18 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  I don't believe Edwards (0+ / 0-)

        OR Obama have records of sufficient depth to justify consideration for the White House.  Obama may develop one.  Edwards probably never will.

        If we abandon our ideals in the face of adversity and aggression, then those ideals were never really in our possession. - Cpt. Ian Fishback

        by Rick Oliver on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:02:56 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I would be interested (0+ / 0-)

          in a diary or extended comment that tried to identify the threshold you allude to with "records of sufficient depth." What is sufficient?

          I've seen so many people say things like, "doesn't have the heft," or "lacks experience," in these diaries without defining their terms that I have become intrigued.

          I do not have a definitive answer myself, either.

          The premier political debate coverage site: DebateScoop

          by demondeac on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:14:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Sufficient depth for me. (0+ / 0-)

            I guess there's a little of "I know it when I see it" to it.  

            In Edwards and Obama's case, neither has an impressive legislative record IMHO.  

            Edwards was a good trial lawyer.  That's about it AFAIK.

            Obama was an effective elected official on the state level but has been unimpressive so far in the Senate.

            I tend to be skeptical of candidates with little to know executive experience as well, which makes governors particularly attractive, but agency leadership or some such will do.

            If we abandon our ideals in the face of adversity and aggression, then those ideals were never really in our possession. - Cpt. Ian Fishback

            by Rick Oliver on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:30:55 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  I would vote for Edwards because (0+ / 0-)

        of where he stands on the issues.  Obama is a blank slate.  

        •  Do you know enough about Obama to say that? (0+ / 0-)

          Have you ever read Obama's resume?  

          Here's a brief bio that Barack Obama displays on his website.  Now, maybe you're not impressed by what's here, or maybe you haven't really looked into Senator Obama, but can you really say he's a blank slate:

          Barack Obama has dedicated his life to public service as a community organizer, civil rights attorney, and leader in the Illinois state Senate. Obama now continues his fight for working families following his recent election to the United States Senate.

          Sworn into office January 4, 2005, Senator Obama is focused on promoting economic growth and bringing good paying jobs to Illinois. Obama serves on the important Environment and Public Works Committee, which oversees legislation and funding for the environment and public works projects throughout the country, including the national transportation bill. He also serves on the Veterans ’ Affairs Committee where he is focused on investigating the disability pay discrepancies that have left thousands of Illinois veterans without the benefits they earned. Senator Obama also serves on the Foreign Relations Committee.

          During his seven years in the Illinois state Senate, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans to help working families get ahead by creating programs like the state Earned Income Tax Credit, which in three years provided over $100 million in tax cuts to families across the state. Obama also pushed through an expansion of early childhood education, and after a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

          Obama is especially proud of being a husband and father of two daughters, Malia, 8 and Sasha, 4. Obama and his wife, Michelle, married in 1992 and live on Chicago ’s South Side where they attend Trinity United Church of Christ.

          Barack Obama was born on August 4th, 1961, in Hawaii to Barack Obama, Sr. and Ann Dunham. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983, and moved to Chicago in 1985 to work for a church-based group seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment. In 1991, Obama graduated from Harvard Law School where he was the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review.   Senator Barack Obama's Bio

    •  He's using it as a generic example... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      CJB, Rick Oliver, Icarus Ascending

      ...for John Edwards. It's unbelievable how short a memory he has, as Edwards was also questioned about his lack of credentials in 2004.

      It has nothing to do with race. The diarist has repeatedly stirred the pot with regards to racial issues, and this is just another attempt to do so.

      •  He keeps trying for hillary (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Dump Terry McAuliffe

        I gotta give him points for that...

        can't hurt him for trying..

        However, His diary would have been much more effective if he was promoting Bill Richardson rather than two others who also have limited "qualifications"

        •  Let's Compare Richardson to Edwards, then! (0+ / 0-)

          So, where's the DailyKos groundswell for the objectively REALLY MOST qualified candidate, Bill Richardson?

          If you compare Bill Richardson's resume to Edwards', you have to admit that Edwards really shouldn't even be considered at all, not by a long-shot!

           Governor  Bill Richardson was elected Governor of New Mexico in 2002 by the largest margin of any candidate since 1964.

          Governor Richardson currently serves as Chairman of the Democratic Governors’ Association. Governor Richardson is also past chairman of:

             * Western Governors’ Association
             * Border Governors’ Conference
             * 2004 Democratic National Convention

          Governor Richardson served for as New Mexico’s Representative in the 3rd Congressional District. 15 years

          Governor Richardson served in 1997 as the U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, and in 1998, he was unanimously confirmed by the U.S. Senate as Secretary of the U.S. Department of Energy. Governor Richardson has been Bill Richardson's Biography.

          There's no way that you would consider a guy with one term in the Senate as being anywhere near as qualified as a guy who served in Congress seven terms, then served two terms as Governor, and was also Secretary of Energy  as well as US Ambassador to the UN?  

          My God, you compare Bill Richardson to Edwards and if you still prefer Edwards then you have to agree that traditional qualifications have nothing at all to do with it.  It becomes an "I like him better" kind of thing, which is where color and ethnicity bias really have an opportunity to take hold - when "I like him better" begins to trump a resume four times as long and four times as good.

  •  Short answer: "No" (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    PhantomFly, 0wn

    The only 2 candidates who are not white male are Hillary and Obama.

    Obama will not win precisely because he is black.  No southern or border state will vote for him.  He will also have a tough time in all-white states like NH, MN, IA, and WI.  He may also run into problems in states like Michigan which is generally trending Democrat, but which has a huge number of culturally conservative white voters.

    Hillary has a real shot, but at the end of the day I don't think she will win.

    Caveat:  If Democrats are smart enough to nominate Richardson, that may break the white male hold on the WH.  

    •  Will he do worse than Dukakis & Mondale? (0+ / 0-)

      If Obama would not do worse than Dukakis and Mondale, doesn't that mean that he actually IS as qualified a candidate as Dukakis and Mondale, whom we nominated before?

      Let's assume that we don't nominate Obama or Clinton in 2008 for exactly the reason that you suggested.  Does that guarantee that the persons we do nominate will do better than Dukakis, Mondale and Kerry did?  Or will we discriminate on the basis of color and gender, committing one wrong, and then possibly lose the election and have nothing to show for our ignominious color and gender-discriminatory calculation?

      Effectively what's worse?  To consider candidates without regard to color or gender and lose, or to discriminate on the basis of color and gender and still lose?  After all, we have lost 66% of the last six election, even while upholding beholden to the historical white male monopoly on the presidency.

      Maybe it's time for change?

      •  I didn't suggest that Obama and Hillary (0+ / 0-)

        need to be written off because of their race or gender.

        (Aside: Obama needs to be written off because he has no experience whatever).

        What I was saying is that the current reality is that blacks have won only 5 elections for either Senator or Governor.  (3 Senators-Edward Brooks (MA), Carol Moseley Braun (IL), and Barack Obama (IL); 2 Governors - Douglass Wilder (VA) and Deval Patrick (MA)).  That is not really a hospitable environment for a black person to run for Presidency.

        •  You are not AWARE of Obama's exp. yet! (0+ / 0-)

          he has no experience whatever

             Barack Obama has dedicated his life to public service as a community organizer, civil rights attorney, and leader in the Illinois state Senate. Obama now continues his fight for working families following his recent election to the United States Senate.

             Sworn into office January 4, 2005, Senator Obama is focused on promoting economic growth and bringing good paying jobs to Illinois. Obama serves on the important Environment and Public Works Committee, which oversees legislation and funding for the environment and public works projects throughout the country, including the national transportation bill. He also serves on the Veterans ’ Affairs Committee where he is focused on investigating the disability pay discrepancies that have left thousands of Illinois veterans without the benefits they earned. Senator Obama also serves on the Foreign Relations Committee.

             During his seven years in the Illinois state Senate, Obama worked with both Democrats and Republicans to help working families get ahead by creating programs like the state Earned Income Tax Credit, which in three years provided over $100 million in tax cuts to families across the state. Obama also pushed through an expansion of early childhood education, and after a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama enlisted the support of law enforcement officials to draft legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

             Obama is especially proud of being a husband and father of two daughters, Malia, 8 and Sasha, 4. Obama and his wife, Michelle, married in 1992 and live on Chicago ’s South Side where they attend Trinity United Church of Christ.

             Barack Obama was born on August 4th, 1961, in Hawaii to Barack Obama, Sr. and Ann Dunham. Obama graduated from Columbia University in 1983, and moved to Chicago in 1985 to work for a church-based group seeking to improve living conditions in poor neighborhoods plagued with crime and high unemployment. In 1991, Obama graduated from Harvard Law School where he was the first African American president of the Harvard Law Review.   Senator Barack Obama's Bio  (link in comments above)    

          Since Obama has seven years in the Illinois State Senate before his one US Senate term, how can he possibly be said to have less experience than Edwards, who never served in any state elected or appointive office at all?

    •  Bill Richardson isn't white, is he? n/t (0+ / 0-)

      "Well, yeah, the Constitution is worth it if you can succeed." Nancy Pelosi

      by StupidAsshole on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:33:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Richardson and Obama are "Kind of White" (0+ / 0-)

      That may be the most intruiging part of this diary idea.  I don't buy into the "Edwards is successful because he is white" argument (I think he is successful because, like Obama, he makes people believe he cares), BUT if the barrier is broken in 2008, it might be broken by Obama, whose mother was a white Kansan and father was a black African, and Richardson, who also has mixed ancestry (sorry, I need to research him more).  

      That kind of makes sense in a society still dealing with its racist history (slavery, annihliation of the native people, etc.)  These candidates will not seem "too black" or "too Mexican" to voters who might otherwise, at least secretly, vote based on race.

  •  I think this is (5+ / 0-)

    fundamentally a pretty good diary, and although I don't really like either Clinton or Obama much at the moment (Obama might change my mind, but I don't like some of his direction toward the mushy middle), I also get really tired of the "is the country ready?" handwringing that goes on. I also see gender and race playing into some people's worries -- the reality is that that kind of fear could be used to justify nominating only white men for the next 100 years.

    I'm not honestly sure why people are giving you shit for this diary. I basically agree with a lot of your points here, though I will agree with MissLaura above that Edwards is not immune from the qualifications questions.

    •  Thanks, Spit (you don't mind me calling U that?) (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Spit

      I haven't seen anyone giving me any real shit yet.  I obviously think it's a good idea to have a look at this question, too.

      •  Looks like everybody chilled out (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Annalize5

        after the initial response. And I'm glad. You make good points here. I think our fear of nominating somebody that a few bigots wouldn't vote for -- like we'd probably be getting their votes anyway -- is a damn shame, and what's funny is that I honestly think the free publicity via excitement over the presidential candidate not being a white male would more than make up for the loss of some bigot votes.

        That said, I don't like Clinton much, and I'm waiting for Obama to impress me with more than his obvious charisma. I don't much like any of our current options, to be fair, so I'm sort of waiting to see who stands up and says or does something interesting and indicative of moving in the right direction.

        Yeah, I'm down with my bodily fluid self. ;)

  •  Not if Hillary is elected. ;) n/t (0+ / 0-)

  •  that reporter ... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MeanBoneII, ptmflbcs, francislholland

    After looking the resume over, one reporter chided, "Where’s the beef?"

    Someone might want to gently break it to that reporter that it's nearly 2007.  There are voters who weren't even born when that catchphrase got old.

    "All progress depends on the unreasonable man." -- George Bernard Shaw

    by Bearpaw on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 10:59:03 AM PDT

  •  And another thing (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rick Oliver, francislholland

    If you are going to write "alternate history" try at least to keep it consistent.

    Lauch Faircloth was a Senator from North Carolina, not Georgia.  And its Faircloth not Launchfair.

  •  Nice to see... (2+ / 0-)

    ...the NYT is still working for the GOP.

    (¯`*._(¯`*._(-IMPEACH-)_.*´¯)_.*´¯) It's not too late!

    by nehark on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:04:22 AM PDT

  •  White male monopoly will end in 2007 or 2016 (6+ / 0-)

    Demographic trends will make it a reality eventually.

    If Bush and Cheney are impeached, Pelosi would be president in 2007.

    If somehow Pelosi does not become president, I'm betting we'll have a non-white president by 2016.

    Gore seems the strongest candidate for 2008. Obama would make a great running mate for Gore, and a great president after two terms of vice-president.

    •  If not before. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Caldonia
      •  Obama is rather young. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Hummingbird

        I think he's a great political force, but he's very tentative about taking a stand on anything.

        He's got to get some experience under his belt before he'll be taken seriously.

        He needs to distance himself from the Clintons and Lieberman and take a stand on something.

        I refuse to support a candidate based on charisma alone.

    •  The first non-white male president (0+ / 0-)

      He or she is someone you have never heard of. That person is probably a state senator, district attorney, or county executive who will win statewide office in 2010 or 2012; will compile a record as a competent pragmatist; and will appeal to voters as an alternative to the toxic celebrity politics epitomized by the Bushes and Clintons hogging the media spotlight.

      Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

      by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 12:31:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I still say ... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Rick Oliver, francislholland

    when everyone, including FH looks at candidates based on their qualifications, not their race, gender, "star power" , "war chest" , political familial association, height, hair color or outward beauty, we will all be free of this sad meme.

    It should never be about placing a woman or a person of color or minority ethnicity in the highest office in the Nation, it should always be about choosing the best qualified and most able from the field of candidates available.  Sometimes that person just might happen to be a female or a person of color (note I include "brown" and "yellow" folks here, unlike some who simply work for a "black" Presidency).  You want more females and persons of color in office?  Give us better candidates than Cynthia McKinney, Alan Keyes and Katherine Harris (republicans included because, as FH has pointed out, some Democrats will vote for them simply because of color or gender, and sometimes, they even get elected <sigh>).

    If you are insistent on a specific gender or ethnicity for your support (re Steele, in MD), then you are handicapping yourself already by willfully choosing to disregard qualifications and abilities, an action that has often been bemonaed by folks passed over for male caucasins: it's wrong when that occurs as well.

    "Hillary Hate" is a disease that will not be cured until after the primaries.

    by emsprater on Mon Dec 11, 2006 at 11:11:50 AM PDT

    •  But 2 put a white in, any white will do? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Annalize5

      Let's look at our real history.  George W. Bush is in office.  Our history of selecting the best candidate regardless of gender and color really cries out for a re-examination of how we go about selecting "the best man for the job".

      I agree with you about the test we should apply, but the way in which we are applying the test, if we ever applied it at all, is so obviously broken that we really have to reexamine it.

      If you always hire the best man to work with you in your business, yet half of the time those men steal your equipment and leave the job after the first day, then there's either something wrong with your test or something wrong with the way you are applying the test.  

      George Bush is a walking billboard saying, "REEVALUATE YOUR SELECTION CRITERIA AND/OR YOUR SELECTION PROCESS"!  Sorry for the all-caps!

      Read and reason.

      by francislholland on Mon Dec