Daily Kos

Hillary? Obama? Oh my...

Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 06:30:25 PM PDT

So, Hillary -- and maybe Barack -- are running.

Kos is already calling it for Obama. I think he's in denial about Hillary, who kossacks seem to detest. I seem to recall he pronounced Kerry dead, and said Edwards would not be the Veep candidate, no way. We are all fallible at this stage.

I may as well say it. I think a Hillary / Obama ticket is a distinct possibility.

OK, flame away, kossacks. But follow me over the fold for the reasons...

Just because she isn't our first (or second, or fifth) choice doesn't change the fact that she has the Democratic party in her pocket, modulo Howard Dean who is still an independent mind running the DNC (and a very healthy thing that is).

I suspect the Clintons have been grooming Barack for the Veep role since the '04 convention. Where did he come from all of a sudden, anyway? I'd like to know who exactly chose him to give that keynote speech, and why the press fell all over themselves to annoint him the "future first Black president". I suspect it was part of Bill's plan to make Hillary electable. Remember, Bill already was "the first Black president". Trust him to think long and hard about how to win big with that constituency. He is still the smartest political mind on the planet. And he wants it as redress for his disgrace the way Pappy Bush wanted redress for not getting a second term; nobody wants it more.

EDIT: I see I wasn't the first to speculate that Hillary and Barack have a pact already. See Jeffrey Feldman's earlier diary.

I don't think Kerry slotted Obama for fame. Edwards sure didn't do it. Howard Dean wasn't DNC chair yet. Come on, why would the beltway crowd give him a leg up? Just as they were shoving Dean under for the third time? Somebody powerful had to make it happen. It was like JFK's keynote in '56, when Stevenson was nominated. Didn't just happen by accident.

Having Obama as Hllary's Veep choice would make it impossible for Karl Rove to make the election entirely about doubts re: a woman president, wouldn't it? And that's the big danger -- that it all gets hung up on a stupid irrelevant prejudice. Like JFK and the Catholic thing (which sank Al Smith in '28), it needs to be defused adroitly at the outset. So, misdirection. Which pundits can even focus on the woman issue for long, with the prospect of a Black president 8 years down the road? The talking points just got so much more diverse. And the endless, mindless repetition engine got derailed. Moreover, prejudice gets its true name -- it's actually harder to get away with being a racist in politics today than it is to be sexist. Bottom line: it's attacking on two fronts at once.

Also, imagine the South in play, if Blacks voted in their greatest numbers ever. Don't you think they would? Maybe enough to offset all the vote fraud. (Sheer massive turnout worked good against it in the midterms.)

My guess is, Obama knows it's too early to go for it on his own, but is going to show some strength, get people excited / worried, then take the second slot he's already been offered. Eight years of on-the-job training and he'd be unstoppable. Why wouldn't he take that deal? So much safer. You only get one try! Just my guess. Notice how moderate he's been lately, even on the war? He sounds more and more like Hillary.

Wesley Clark is another Clinton creation and possible Hillary ticket-mate, but I suspect he'll be her SecDef and point man on the Iraq mess -- she'll need a team in place before the election to have a convincing story there. He makes a much less charismatic Veep, and besides we're tired of having the Veep run wars, that was Cheney's thing and Hillary knows how discredited that whole twisted arrangement is now. But the guy who got in and out of Kosovo as SecDef, to get us out of Iraq? Perfect. Announce it at the convention, or as soon as she seals the nomination.

Come on, folks, let's make some history. Time for an inflection point. First woman, first Black. In that order. Oh, and with 25 Rethug Senate seats up for grabs in '08, and only 10 Democratic Senate seats, we could be looking at a veto-proof legislative majority for the first time since LBJ. Remember the Voting Rights act? Medicare? Remember the last time Democrats actually did anything, except send jobs overseas and balance budgets? (Well, Jimmy Carter did get SALT II and the Egypt/Israeli treaty signed.) But I mean big stuff, FDR-scale stuff that lasts forever -- like national health insurance -- lobbyist reform -- campaign finance reform.

Even CLIMATE CHANGE action. Make Al Gore secretary of the environment (new cabinet level position). Well, maybe not, he and Hillary aren't friends. I know someone who thinks Harvard might pick him as their next president. That'd be a great bully pulpit for him and his cause right now. Maybe he's best as a single-issue man. He sure owns that one.

2008 will be the closest thing to a 1932 FDR opportunity for Democrats since, well, 1932. Eyes on the prize, candaidates. (1) Get elected president, with a congressional majority. (2) Be idealistic and progressive, like JFK/RFK again. Put (2) before (1) and you lose. The time for a great soaring speech for the history books is your inauguration. Save it for then. (Go back and look at what JFK ran on. "Nixon will continue the policies that will surely lose Indochina to the communists!')

I was, and am, a Dean man from Vermont, but if it tips the way I'm suggesting, I say we get over our Hillary disappointment as soon as we can. FDR was a coward too, before 1932. It's too much to expect to have a great president who tells you in advance just what he's going to do.

Poll

Hillary / Barack in '08?

30%27 votes
30%27 votes
39%35 votes

| 89 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, John F. Kennedy, 2008 elections (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 35 comments

  •  tip jar (6+ / 0-)

    I promise to donate all tips to Dean's DNC for the 50-state strategy, not Hillary's campaign fund. :-)

    "The universe is a sphere whose center is wherever there is intelligence." -Thoreau

    by samizdat on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 06:32:55 PM PDT

  •  Hillary/Barack (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    vickie feminist

    Can't use her first name and his last, it's too remniscent of the old sexist way of referring to women by the first names (in a familiar way) and men by their last (more respectful).

    Regardless, she's unelectable, as a woman and as the most polarizing Democrat around today.  Adding a black man, no matter how talented, to the ticket, just knocks off the people who could stomach voting for a woman, but would not be comfortable with a black man.  Conversely, for him, being on the ticket with her knocks off the voters who are fine with voting for a black man, but can't bring themselves to vote for a woman - PMS and all that (yes, I am rolling my eyes as I write that, but people think it).

    Personally, I think this country is more ready for a black man than a woman of any colour, and I say that having been a senior female executive for many years, but that's another discussion.

  •  Are you out of your mind?? Hillary and Obama?? (3+ / 0-)

    Just how much do you want to lose!!??!!
    We need to win the presidency in 2008, not just chuck it away by nominating a divisive uber-feminist and a amiable handsome man with near-zero experience.  That said, I like Hillary, just not now for the presidency.  She is young enough to hang around for eight years.  I like Obama too but don't turn this 'golden boy' into a 21st Century Harold Stassen and if you're too young to know who Stassen is, well, just Google him.  Obama needs some seasoning in the political arena and some good foreign policy exposure and I'd be happy to vote for him after that time in the political cooker.
        The best ticket is a winning ticket and we should all 'keep the eye on the prize.'  In that light, my nominees are Chris Dodd of Connecticut, General Wes Clark, Al Gore and Bill Richardson, and possibly Senator Bayh.  I think a Clark/Dodd ticket would be strongest [at least thus far].  The newly improved Al Gore, if he can rid of the baggage of the 2000 campaign, would be an excellent candidate and if anyone can make Bill Richardson seem happier about life, smile and gain some wit, not weight, well, that would help too.  One of the best things about Gore is that he has suffered defeat, just as Clinton did in the Ark governorship once upon a time. Defeat tempers a person and gives them a different freedom of soul in a campaign; having once lived through defeat, a person knows they could handle it again and will be unafraid to speak from a more clear mind than a political wishy-washy mind.  I urge a close look at Chris Dodd; he is a man of passionate opinions and clearly expresses them.  His biggest handicap is that he is from the liberal northeast [my home turf, too] and we all know how that affronts those delicate Southern sensibilities and the Midwestern blockheads.  [No offense intended, I'm married to an Okie... but a "thinking" Okie!]

    In youth we learn, in age we understand.

    by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:02:28 PM PDT

    •  You don't hear of many Dodd supporters... (0+ / 0-)

      Dodd seems like a nice enough guy, but pure vanilla.  Vilsak seems that way too, but I feel like there may be a spark of life in him that I haven't seen in Dodd yet.  (I do think a Dodd/Vilsak ticket would just put me to sleep...zzz)

      •  Dodd has a hidden fire. He needs the stage and (0+ / 0-)

        topics to bring him out of hiding and then he can be quite eloquent, surprisingly so in fact!  I think he would work well with Clark too, I think their personalities would interact well.  We shall see.  I'll check out Vilsak in meantime but I'll vote for whomever the Dems nominate anyway; I'll never ever vote for a Repub for as long as I live.. does this make me narrow-minded???

        In youth we learn, in age we understand.

        by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:53:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Clinton/Obama (5+ / 0-)

    Republican dream ticket.

    Clark/Obama?

    Now that's something people could get behind.

    •  Where is Clark? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Nulwee, Opinionated Ed

      While I am no Hillary fan (how can anyone still rationally justify their vote on the Iraq war??), I wonder about Obama and Clark joining forces. I'm partial to Clark being on the top of the ticket, as I don't find the "so what if Barack doesn't have much experience?" arguments not very convincing.

      Still, if these two guys we're our Pres/VP candidates in either configuration, now that would be a vote I'd be proud to cast.

      •  I'd be happy to cast that vote too but I (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Nulwee

        don't think they'd beat McCain/Giuliani or McCain/xyz... Obama, at this time, weakens the ticket; he'll win in a walk in 10-15 years, assuming he growing in office and stays out of trouble.  I think he is a wonderful candidate, just not at this time in 2008.

        In youth we learn, in age we understand.

        by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 08:00:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  How so? (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Nulwee

          I don't see how a Clark/Obama pairing wouldn't be a solid, Democratic-defining moment. Clark's experience could negate McCain's military record, and both he & Obama would offer a refreshingly anti-Iraq war position. I think Obama's "rock star" aura would work well in the VP slot.

          I'm a dyed-in-the-wool Dean supporter from a few years ago (man, if I could ever find a gig in Burlington, I'd move across the NY/VT border in a heartbeat), so this ticket seems reasonable to me. I am so very tired of the same cookie cutter politicians we tend to offer up for the POTUS slot. The Clark/Obama ticket might be just the, oh, what's the word...

          •  Clark is The Only Answer We Have To McCain (0+ / 0-)

            I just realized that.  The Republicans will nominate him if they realize he's their shot.  Guiliani doesn't have the mass appeal McCain does, even if he's hated by many Republicans right now.

            He's a veteran who does well with liberals and youngsters, and well enough with Independents and Republicans.  Senator Clinton can't beat that and Barack Obama may not be able to.

            Clark definately would.  McCain is not a Clinton but he does have a disgust factor going for him... show the people someone who's not just a military-card plyaing jackass but a General and McCain will look like a dinosaur, he's passive aggressively negative, while Clark has vision and passion.  

            I can imagine it now, because everytime I see McCain on T.V. he sounds and squints like he needs a nap.  That's not going to be any better in two years :)

            Republicans believe in gvmt. intervention for bankers and investors, I believe in intervention for the meek and lowly -- Nulwee.

            by Nulwee on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 08:21:23 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Obama would destroy McCain (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Nulwee

              I think he's the only Democrat who would.

              I mean, if McCain's the nominee, the only way Democrats win (I'm sorry to say) is if there is someone who exudes youth and energy.

              Those who say McCain isn't a VERY strong nominee are delusional. The press loves him, and independents love him.

              Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com

              by BrentHartinger on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 08:42:09 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I Hope Obama Would (0+ / 0-)

                I am sort of hee-hawing about it in my newest diary, but you're right about McCain.

                That he's sort of like the political Dennis the Menace on The Daily Show, the silly little grinning boy who just happens to goof up (only involving dangerous loyalties during elections, pandering to nutjobs and torture) shows how underestimated he is by liberals.

                Republicans believe in gvmt. intervention for bankers and investors, I believe in intervention for the meek and lowly -- Nulwee.

                by Nulwee on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:33:03 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

            •  I agree with you totally. n/t (0+ / 0-)

              In youth we learn, in age we understand.

              by Jbeaudill on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 09:35:46 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  the word: unique? refreshing? While I think (0+ / 0-)

            your points are interesting, ask yourself: if we couldn't have Obama, whom would we choose? It sounds to me as though you are hoping the same hope I have, for the 'man/woman-on-the-horse' = the literary hero to come out of the woodwork and rivet the American voter!  We were Dean supporters too; his directness was so healthy and engaging and he had the advantage of being able to 'plain-talk' as our current Prez. Thanks for your comments.

            In youth we learn, in age we understand.

            by Jbeaudill on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 09:31:41 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Where is Clark? (0+ / 0-)

        He is currently attending and speaking at a major conference in the Gulf Region. Tomorrow, which is today there, he will addressing the assembly about regional strategy and security.

        Moderate Arabs remember who put their job on the line to save the lives of Muslims who don't have oil. They like and respect Wes Clark.

        Notice that our MSM is not covering a conference that includes leaders, scholars, and members of the U.N. It would seem that 600 people have gathered.

        One statement that leaked back via The Washington Note:

        This senior policy official stated that he had never seen a Secretary of State as weak, disorganized, and without a plan of any kind than Condoleezza Rice -- and this from someone who strenuously insists that he and many other regional foreign policy officials want to be supportive of her and the U.S.
        He stated that American withdrawal from Iraq -- despite the growing clamor for that -- would yield a complete change in the profile and character of nearly every one of the Middle East's 22 countries. He said that several governments in the region -- outside of Iraq -- could very easily "and would probably fall."

        The Washinton Note

  •  I'd rather see Obama learn the ropes in the (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Grand Poobah, MiloNY, gmb

    Senate, gain some foreign policy experience and then become Governor of Illinois and then head for the White House.  He is just not fully-formed to be on a presidential ticket at this time; he is like a political embryo, still under development.

    In youth we learn, in age we understand.

    by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:07:13 PM PDT

    •  Okay (0+ / 0-)

      I disagree with you, but that's actually a really cool idea. We deserve a better governor in Illinois. Only problem is the Gov race is the same year as his re-election... would he give up his seat to run for gov?

      •  If he wanted it enough, he would. Just my (0+ / 0-)

        opinion.  He'd have to be convinced he really had a top notch chance to win but even if he lost a future governorship race, he could always return to Congress and equally, he would be a front-runner for other political positions...it's not like he'd drop out of sight or hide himself off to Paraguay or something.

        In youth we learn, in age we understand.

        by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:57:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Al Franken's guest agrees with you (0+ / 0-)

    Today's Franken show had Lawrence O'Donnell, a  past politico and a producer of the West Wing tv shopw, commenting on all the presidential contenders.  He says McCain gets the Republican nod and either Barak or Hillary gets the Democratic nomination.  He thought Clark would get VP.

    I was very unhappy. I worry about Hillary's high negatives while anticiapting working my ass off for the John Edwards/Wesley Clark team.

    •  A McCain/Giuliani ticket would be truly (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Nulwee

      formidable.  I view Duncan Hunter's hat in ring as a bid for future SecDef under Rethug prez. Frist was wise to drop out and Allen shot self successfully in foot.  I agree with O'Donnell, it is McCain's to lose.
      Clark may be better as Pres candidate than VP owing to his military record and as usual Dems need that coverage; also: the USA voting public may want to  put a military leader in office as CIC because of our current wars and how demoralizing they are to all thinking citizens.  We shall see....

      In youth we learn, in age we understand.

      by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:49:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The people will just NOT vote for Hillary for (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Nulwee

    president, period... at least not at this time. She stands a much better chance when memories have declined and she is tempered by time.
    I think Edwards time has come & gone but I'd love to see him in cabinet; he could accomplish a lot as Secty of Labour for example... with what the middle and working classes are facing in USA, the intricacies of failed  pension plans, the issue of miniumum wages vs working wages, training for new occupations and professions... we need a compassionate person in that slot.
    I'll have to study Vilsak, don't know much about him but I once did live in Iowa, and know a bit about Iowa's mindset.

    In youth we learn, in age we understand.

    by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 07:44:09 PM PDT

  •  Sorry for all my posts and opinions, guess (0+ / 0-)

    anyone can see what gets my engine running!
    Love and a hug to all Kossacks, husband home, doggies hungry, gotta run....

    In youth we learn, in age we understand.

    by Jbeaudill on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 08:02:23 PM PDT

  •  Clark CANT BE SECDEF B/COS of the 10yr rule (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    MO Blue

    A military person cant hold that office until 10yrs expire

    •  Really? That's interesting (0+ / 0-)

      He must be getting close, when did he retire?

      Well, he could be National Security adviser or something useful. Or CIA? Put him in charge of the war on terror. I know, he's not an intelligence professional, but neither was Pappy Bush (and many others).

      "The universe is a sphere whose center is wherever there is intelligence." -Thoreau

      by samizdat on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:16:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Obama (0+ / 0-)

    Here's the thing with Obama (said as someone who was living in Chicago not so long ago and thus was well aware of Obama before the last presidential election)... To hear Obama speak is to like the guy. He's down to earth, yet extremely bright (not in that politician's way, but very much in the vein of an academic or professional thinker), and light on his feet. He has a great sense of humor and can work a crowd. He's a family and community man and you believe it when he says it. He has a great sense of humor. He makes you smile.

    It's just a sort of gut feeling that I think a lot of people get listening to him, especially in less structured forums... you know immediately that he's brilliant and at the same time you start to believe that he's one of those rare people who's in public service because he believes that given his skills he has a responsibility to society to be in public service.

    Hillary not so much. Here's the thing: I would seriously hesitate to vote for Hillary. I would vote for Obama in a second.

    -9.63, 0.00
    Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

    by nobody at all on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 08:56:32 PM PDT

    •  You'd hesitate to vote for her in the genera (0+ / 0-)

      election? Why? Maybe you don't find her as likeabe as Obama, but she hass a simmilar voting record and more experience.

      Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

      by tigercourse on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:03:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Two reasons, and really they are the same one... (0+ / 0-)

        Regardless of voting record, Hillary comes off as an aristocrat, east coast money and privilege. I just can't imagine years of listening to Hillary, it would grate on me almost as badly as W does.

        And I'm positive that the biggest part of the reason for this sensation would be the recent history of the Bush I era, the Clinton I era, the Bush II era, the Clinton II era, the same two ruling families for literally decades.

        It smells like aristocracy and the people who think of themselves as such. If she had a shred of decency she would take her hat out of the ring and say "We can't have two wealthy families ruling this country for a quarter of a century..."

        -9.63, 0.00
        Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

        by nobody at all on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:29:23 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Well, both Roosevelts came (0+ / 0-)

          from "east coast" privlege (do they not have priblege anywhere other than the East Coast?). By the way, HRC isn't from the East Coast. She spent 6 years here. Decades in the South and was born in (Iowa I think) the Midwest.

          Hillary Clinton's Liberal Ranking http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/10/122232/619

          by tigercourse on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:54:04 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I realize this, (0+ / 0-)

            that's why it rubs me the wrong way that she "comes off" as such. I didn't like to use words like carpetbagger, but she comes of as someone who has intentionally attempted to make herself into an aristocrat, which was the point of my post.

            -9.63, 0.00
            Anti-groupthink is the groupthink of the anti-groupthink group.

            by nobody at all on Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 04:34:00 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  Clark P / Obama VP makes most sense (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Opinionated Ed
  •  She isn't my first or fifth choice, she is a NO (0+ / 0-)

    I want a Democratic Party I can be proud of, not one that is just a bit better than the Republicans. Replace Reid and Pelosi, say NO to Hillary!

    by Opinionated Ed on Tue Dec 05, 2006 at 09:01:46 PM PDT

  •  Tag notes (0+ / 0-)

    When using names as tags, please be sure to use the first and last names and middle initials when needed. -Fixed here.

    For diaries related to 2008 elections, please use "2008 elections" with an "s" - fixed here.  When doing tag cleanup we learned that too many people are using "year" tags alone to designate non-election events that happen in a certain year.

    Thanks!

    DailyKos Tag Cleanup Project
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  •  Iowa Dems went for the safe choices in Jan. 2004. (0+ / 0-)

    Maybe they will view a woman or an African-American as the safe choices in 2008, but if they do I'll be very surprised.

Permalink | 35 comments