Daily Kos

Toward A Democratic Majority: A National Identity

Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:23:54 PM PDT

Contrary to what GOP propagandist Ken Mehlman asserts, the netroots of the left don't want to push our party more left. We don't want the part to be more liberal.  Simply put, we want it to act like a national party.

Currently, the Democratic members of Congress are drifting about discombobulated from their core.  A centralized mission and focus is admittedly lacking; it's not just a right-wing myth.  What is a right-wing myth is that this lack of mission comes from a deficiency of ideas. That simply is not true. Democrats have innovative proposals for education,health care, national security, and more. But these are bills primarily introduced by individuals, with a handful of co-sponsors. They get introduced, and then are referred to committee where brilliant Democratic ideas languish and die a slow, bureaucratic death.

In my legislative research, the one thing that has struck me as odd is how Democrats fail to attach their name--as a group--to even the most benign of proposals. For example, S. 11, the 'Standing With Our Troops Act', has 25 Democratic co-sponsors. But there are, of course, forty-four Democrats in the Senate. If you know full well the bill is destined to die in committee and you won't get a chance to vote on it, why wouldn't you add your name as a co-sponsor to go on record as supporting the bill? In my opinion, every Democratic bill should be co-sponsored by every Democratic member of Senate or House.

But, touching  now on the larger issue, this is just one example of how Democrats don't function as a national party.  In sharp contrast to the GOP, the Democratic Party is struggling to act like a unified party instead of a loose affiliation of liberals in Congress.  Members of Congress need to understand that being a liberal and being a Democrat are not the same thing.

More below...

  • ::
Our caucus is full of liberals.  Let's take our good friend Joe Lieberman. There can be no argument I think that his record generally is a liberal one. Maybe not Kucinich liberal, but liberal nonetheless. He has a 100% rating from NARAL. A 0% rating from the fundy Christian Coalition. A 100% rating from the American Public Health Association, in large part because he supports national health care for children and poor adults.  His positions on other issues are more moderate, as is the case with many members of Congress.  Yet the party's base feels betrayed by him because, while he make vote liberal, he doesn't act like a Democrat.

Our party doesn't need ideological purity.  We don't need more "liberals" in our party, we don't necessarily need to move it more to the left; we need more Democrats.  We need our representatives to realize that there is a national entity called the Democratic Party which requires their allegiance and support.  That allegiance and support doesn't stop when a vote is taken and shouldn't manifest itself only in the chambers of Congress. Being a Democrat means you represent the party 24/7. When you're on Sunday talk shows, when you're at the President's state of the union, any time your mug is smiling at the American people, you are an ambassador of the Democratic Party and should act as such. What does that mean?

It means accepting the fact that you are a member of the opposition party. Too many Democrats in Congress embrace our status as the minority party, while failing to realize that they are simultaneously the opposition and have a duty to their constituents and party to act as such. It's easy to understand why they embrace minority rather than opposition status. When you're in the minority, it becomes an effortless excuse for inaction. Rationalizing away our failures by blaming them on our minority status prevents us from viewing them as a failure of conviction and courage. But that is exactly what they are.

Refusing to embrace a national identity is a symptom of meekness. It is a  preference to remain a single player with  singular obligations. In reality, it is the national party which bears the burden of fighting for national interests.  When it comes to such core national issues, like say, the constitutional crisis that occurs when the President asserts absolute power, members of Congress must embrace their national identity to stand up and speak in unison against this powergrab. Thus, papers shouldn't read that Byrd is circulating a petition, or Rockefeller is pissed. Rather, the headline of every newspaper should be "245 Democrats Demand An Investigation."  

Acting nationally to protect national interests. That's what being a national party is all about.

Only when liberals in Congress begin acting as Democrats will voters realize that the Democratic Party is one which is coordinated and courageous enough to stand up for their interests. When voters know that if they vote for a candidate with a "D" by their name, that candidate will have the strength of the entire Democratic caucus behind her, only then will we gain enough public confidence to once again see majority status within our grasp.

Tags: Democrats, Democratic Party (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 185 comments

  •  Party Unity (none / 1)

    We saw the importance of party unity when cloture was invoked on Alito, but he was confirmed with less than 60 votes.

    I'm proud to work for Gary Peters, because Joe Knollenberg is out of touch.

    by Jordan LFW on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:28:39 PM PDT

  •  That was great (none / 1)

    Keep promoting this message, it's important!
  •  Well said (none / 1)

    Any movement needs leadership and solidarity. Without them, it's just a slow trickle instead of a flood.

    'Everybody's born-again these days; if you're not born-again you're dead, you're out of touch, yours is a minority view, you lose.' Barthelme 'Nat.Sel.'

    by jorndorff on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:35:47 PM PDT

  •  Here's the paradox (4.00 / 5)

    Contributions only to the person, the candidate, permits this sort of maverick behavior.

    Contributions to umbrella groups permit some party discipline.

    That said, the umbrella groups of the Democratic Party have consistently shot Democratic Party strategy in the foot.  Can you say Christine Cegelis and Paul Hackett?  The backroom-deal nature of the party umbrella groups is a problem.

    My best suggestion for financing is to give Howard Dean's DNC more financial clout through purchasing Democracy Bonds.  And I admit it is a long shot.  If you want party unity give the party the financial pursestrings to enforce it.

    It seems like a Hobson's choice, doesn't it?

    •  What if you don't like Howard Dean? (none / 1)

      That's why I stopped giving to DNC, because he was chosen as Chair. I didn't like the fact that some party apparachiks chose someone who had no national security and defense credentials to be party spokesperson at a time when the number one issue and weakness of the Bush administration was and is Iraq. It has crippled the Democratic response on more than one occasion. Let's face it. There is no way we can speak with a unified voice on Iraq or any other topic, and having DNC hold all the purse strings to enforce such discipline is a very bad idea. We Democrats are a party of factions that can only be unified behind a candidate for president, if then. Let's hope we get a consensus candidate in 2008.
      •  Too late (none / 0)

        2008 is too far away.  I don't agree with you about Dean, as he was on the money with respect to the fiasco in Iraq, but that's a point we can always debate at length.  I don't think lining up behind a Presidential candidate is an effective way to strengthen the Party.  The Presidential candidate is chosen in the Spring of the election year.  He is defeated in November (just extrapolating from past experience) and then we wait another four to eight years?  It doesn't make any sense.  There needs to be some kind of party discipline to keep us on message in the interim.  I think we still have a good chance of being beat again in 2008.

        Going back 25 years, I had a friend from high school who narrowly missed being appointed senator from Washington State after Jackson died.  The reason he wasn't apointed was that a Republican governor had gotten elected in the interim, and so we got Gorton.  A few years later I asked my friend why he didn't make a run for it, or at least run for Congress again, as he had in 1972.  His mother was county chairman, and his father had been our Congressman.  He told me that the Party counted for nothing (this was in the mid 1980s).  What counted was money, and he didn't have the time or energy to put together the then required half million dollars to make a run for it.

        The point of all this is that the Democratic party has become a group of individual entrepreneurs who are tied by tradition and generally shared views to the party, but effectively owe nothing to it, since they are on their own when it comes to raising money.  That's why there's no discipline.  I don't see any solution to this problem in the short run.

        •  "consensus candidate for 2008" (3.00 / 2)

          That's code-speak for "get on Hillary's bandwagon, or else." No sale. I think Hillary at the head of the 2008 ticket would be a disaster for the party for a long list of reasons.

          When it comes to selecting candidates, I'm a firm believer in letting people, not political operatives or fat-wallet donors, decide who their party's candidate should be. A small-d democrat, in other words.

          Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

          by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:21:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  why would you say that? (3.50 / 2)

            if you don't like hillary then don't vote for in the primary.  but "disaster"?  Oh my god, a WOMAN running for president.  Oh my god, someone the Republicans hate!!!  Just like they loved Bill Clinton, Al Gore and John Kerry.  Oh my god, someone who they will call a "liberal."  Oh no!!!

            I understand that there are negatives about Hillary, for sure.  People hate women who don't act like June Cleaver.  Some people hate the Clintons, for sure. So don't vote for her in the primary.  But Democrats need stop with this line about her inevitable defeat in the general:  She may be the nominee and we shouldn't turn the election into a self-fulfilling prophecy.

            But by no means would Hillary be a "disaster."  She will give any white, male Republican a run for his money.  What state Hillary lose that Kerry won?  Maybe WI or MN, but I doubt it.  And she could easily win OH, FL or CO.  

            Inhofe is a wacko with a 46% approval rating: He's vulnerable.

            by tmendoza on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 03:37:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I agree: disaster. (3.00 / 2)

              Hillary Clinton may be the most polarizing figure in politics today.

              Her candidacy would be the greatest grassroots fundraising opportunity the Republicans could ever dream of.  

              At the same time, she's studiously alienated the base of the Democratic party - you know, those primary voters - by running so far to the center that she's gone to the other side.  And I mean that: flag burning legislation?  Her wobbly position on Iraq?

              What is she thinking?

              I like Hillary a lot as first lady. As a Senator, she's been a disappointment.

              And by the way... the question shouldn't be "What state will Hillary lose that Kerry won?"  The question should be "What states will our next nominee win that Kerry lost?".  Can you name any pickups for Hillary that Kerry dropped?

              The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

              by Malacandra on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 04:09:18 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  You hit the nail on the head (none / 1)

              2004 was the high-water mark for the wingnuts.  No hillbilly wingnut is suddenly going to get off his fat-ass and vote for the GOP when he didn't do the same against a "Massachusetts yankee liberal" like John Kerry was portrayed.  

              The fact is people only have one vote and they did turn out because they hated Kerry.  There's no magical voters that will turn up out of thin air to vote against Hill when they've never voted before.

              This meme is Fox News/RNC talking point bullshit and I a fucking tired of Dems attacking one of their own.  I AM beginning to think some people are anti-woman where they no it or not.  

              I'm sorry, but I am sick of everyone saying ad nauseum that to win we need yet another white southern male shoved down our throats.  What we REALLY need is a M-E-S-S-A-G-E from whomever runs.

              Hillary is electable and is immune from being swiftboated unlike Warner.  See my byline.  Read it.

              The US is now a corporatist-fascist society where Blackwater rules. I'm neither a christian, nor a capitalist, so where do I fit in?

              by HillaryGuy on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 05:23:03 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I've read it. And I disagree. (none / 1)

                Everyone is capable of being swift-boated.

                Swift-boating is the propagation of trumped-up lies meant to spread fear, uncertainty and doubt about a candidate's strengths.

                Everyone is vulnerable to scurrilous lies and rumors. Anyone is capable of being slandered and can be subject to vindictive hate-mongering.

                I remember in 2003 Kerry and Clark supporters were convinced that their guy would be invulnerable to attacks on their credibilty with regard to issues of National Security... being the veterans that they are.

                And I remember saying that if they could smear Max Cleland, a veteran who had lost THREE LIMBS in service to the country... they'd have no problem going after Kerry or Clark.

                I hate it when I'm cynical... and right.

                If you think that the Republicans will be unable to completely smear and slander Hillary, I don't think you've learned some important lessons from our last several election cycles.

                The fact that everyone is vulnerable gives no one an advantage. In fact, the negative narrative on Hillary is already well planted in the minds of many, many people who otherwise might be receptive to a new face in 2008, after a few more ruinous years of this administration.

                But if Hillary is nominated, she needs to be ready for the attacks, no matter what they are. Because they'll come. It does no favor to anyone to suggest that she's invulnerable. She's not.

                No one is.

                The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

                by Malacandra on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 05:54:55 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You make some good points (3.00 / 2)

                  and I appreciate your reply.  But I do think the key element of an effective swiftboat attack is bring up something that was previously unknown, e.g., Kerry's Vietnam thing.

                  Everything is on the table on Hillary and has been for years.  No surprises or unknown here.  Everything is now a yawn.  THAT is why I think it's actually RISKIER nominating someone other than Hillary because they will undoubtedly find something out about their background that can be swiftboated.  Mark Warner is risky.

                  The US is now a corporatist-fascist society where Blackwater rules. I'm neither a christian, nor a capitalist, so where do I fit in?

                  by HillaryGuy on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 06:24:03 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Kerry's VietNam thing was unknown?! (none / 0)

                    A remarkable assertion.

                    For many people, that was just about the first thing they knew about Kerry.

                    Still, I think all the old attacks on Hillary will be resurrected, and in their familiarity, they will take on the resonance of Truthiness.

                    "You know she killed Vince Foster... that's what I heard!"

                    "They say that she's a lesbian. That's why she doesn't mind Bill fooling around on her."

                    "I don't know... she's a little bit of a nut. Remember that whole 'Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy' thing?"

                    "I'm still angry at her about that whole thing about 'staying home and baking cookies'!  She's contemptuous of stay-at-home moms!"

                    I'm getting tired of playing this game. The right wing is better at it than I am - I have no stomach for it.

                    Look, Hillary would be 1000 times the President that W is. No argument.  I don't see how she get from here to there, but Lord knows I've been wrong before.

                    But to suggest that smears need to be based on new information... that's not really true. They're most effective when they leverage off of what people are already inclined to believe about someone.  And the more they know of someone, the more they are inclined to have some opinion that can be exploited by exaggeration.

                    The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

                    by Malacandra on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 06:31:00 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Excuse me... (none / 0)

              I don't know what makes you think that Hillary could win in Colorado! Don't forget that Colorado Springs is the HOT SPOT of Mr. Dobson and extreme right wing faction that hates the Clintons.  You might think about that again.
              •  Colorado... (none / 0)

                ...also has Denver and Boulder.  The CO Springs crowd are going to vote against are nominee no matter what.  Did they vote for Kerry? No.  Will the vote for Hillary? No.  But we can win the state without them.  Bush won 51-49 and the state is trending our way.

                Inhofe is a wacko with a 46% approval rating: He's vulnerable.

                by tmendoza on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 09:49:37 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

        •  Look where the money is! (none / 1)

          Here in Colorado you have millions going to candidates, campaigns and ads, but not much going to fund the party structure, let alone promoting the party brand or program. The state dems can hardly cover office expenses, and get a computer strategy together to keep track of our voters, and prepare GOTV efforts next time around.

          You want influence in the Colorado democratic party, you attach yourself to a candidate, not to the party. That encourages this random-candidate, random-campaign strategy.

      •  Way to be a team player. (4.00 / 5)

        I like your vision.  Franklin Roosevelt would be proud of you.  "We are a party of factions that can only be unified behind a candidate for president, if then."  I was hoping you might say the four freedoms,international leadership to confront the world's most serious problems, a social safety net (for health care, children and the elderly), and expanded opportunity through government-funded education programs, infrastructure spending, affirmative action, and progressive taxation.

        Howard Dean was unanimously elected as chairman of the Democratic Party by the entire Democratic National Committee.  He was not installed by "some party apparachiks."  There were no abstentions.  There were no write-in candidates.  Every vote by every member of the Democratic National Committee, with members from across the country in every state, was for Howard Dean.  Howard Dean won 100% of the vote.

        Now that we established that fact that Howard Dean was not "chosen by some party apparachiks," let's get to the non-substance of your argument against our party's chairman. We'll leave alone the fact that Ken Mehlman has no national security or defense credentials, and that the job of a chairman is organization, and helping state and local parties win campaigns, which Howard Dean is doing.  I, for one, happen to like Howard Dean's national security credentials.  He thought invading Iraq based on a neoconservative fantasy, the way this president chose to, was a really, really dumb idea. He had support in this position from people in the first Bush administration like Scowcroft, and Colin Powell's chief of staff.  Judgment and wisdom are possibly the most serious national security credentials one could have.  This president and this vice-president have neither.

        •  You essentially made the point ... (none / 0)

          ... I was raising about the inability of our party to speak with one voice. You feel that the DNC speaks for you, especially on the Dean selection, whereas I see them as apparachiks removed from the grassroots. How else can you explain the selection of a person as Chair of DNC who was, less than a year before, rejected by every primary voter constituency except DC and Vermont? Sounds pretty unrepresentative to me, and that's why I stopped giving to the Democratic Party as a party. I now give only to candidates.
          •  Apples and oranges (none / 0)

            DNC chair isn't the same as Democratic nominee for president. The two jobs require different skill sets.

            Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

            by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:50:08 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  So why did we choose a failed ... (none / 0)

              ... presidential candidate for DNC chair if that is so?
              •  I suspect you don't like Dean, period (none / 1)

                That's certainly your prerogative, but I'm at a loss to understand why his performance in the 2004 primaries has any relevance to how well he's doing his current job as DNC chair.

                Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

                by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:56:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Dean seems like a nice chap ... (none / 0)

                  ... personally but I just thought he presented the wrong image to take on the Bush White House as spokesperson for the Democratic Party since he has no credibility as a national security and defense expert, and has no record of command experience, and he was not even preferred by a majority of Democratic voters when they had a chance to express themselves in the primary. It didn't take an expert to see that Iraq would be the Achilles heel of the Bush admninistration after November 2004, and I felt it would have been prefereable to have someone as party spokesperson who could attack on Iraq with credibility. Obviously the party apparachiks at DNC did not see it that way and selected Dean for other reasons. Since that selection, I have felt left out of the party. I'm just biding time until I see who we select as the nominee in 2008, and helping local candidates for 2006.
                  •  just an aside (none / 0)

                    Pretty much anyone who thought the Iraq war was a bad, bad idea is more of an expert on national security and defense than those republican clowns.

                    Had a chat with a special forces lt. who was convinced the real reason for iraq was to use a crap country no one cared about to "take on the islamic fundamentalists" and contain them in a conflict there.  Two billion dollars and several thousands lives later we're doing an excellent job training terrorists in modern warfare.

                  •  wrong argument (none / 0)

                    Arguing about which personality gets to be the national spokesperson is the wrong argument when you haven't even got a coherent message or any way to get elected representatives to support it.

                    The national party doesn't control candidates' money or media visibility any more, so all it offers candidates is a convenient label for liberal to moderate politicians that doesn't mean much or require much from them in return.

                    It's a total waste of time to get caught up in the usual inside-the Beltway hissing match over who gets to be the chosen personality in front of the cameras to represent this amorphous party label. That fight just feeds individual politician's egos and doesn't help the bigger need of the party.

                    The Democratic party first needs to develop a coherent message and find a way to ensure that our elected Democratic representatives support it and reinforce it. It also needs to find candidates who support the party's core positions on central issues. Once it has a coherent message and some semblance of message discipline among elected members, then who speaks for the party on various issues matters less.

              •  Dean didn't fail (none / 0)

                by popular vote of the people.  The ususal party regulars (I don't really know who they are, do you?) did it.

                Example:  What about Paul Hackett.  Who did that?  Seems it was Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer and Senator Waxman.  They don't have the right to make those decisions in my opinion.

                •  Hackett was forced out by ... (none / 0)

                  ... national party leaders. Dean in 2003-2004, on the other hand, had the endorsement of the former presidential nominee and nominal party leader Al Gore and a number of other party leaders, had his name on all ballots in every primary, and had free access to the electorate in every state. The people of Iowa had more opportunity to see and hear and consider Dean than any other candidate (didn't Dean visit every county in Iowa, some many times). So, to claim that Dean failed in Iowa and the other primaries because he was not given a fair chance is just ludicrous. Going into Iowa, he had more endorsements from party bogwigs, more endorsements from union officials, more money to spend, and more media coverage than any other candidate. The simple reason he came in third is that the people of Iowa got a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very good look at Dean ... and chose someone else. One thing that would greatly help the Democratic Party is if everyone would acknowledge that Dean lost it fair and square, and then we all could stop pretending that something else happened!  
                  •  Remember the media-doctored "scream"? (none / 0)

                    Where Dean spoke at a reasonable volume to be heard over the crowd, and Big Media doctored the recording to remove the crowd noise, making him appear to be screaming unreasonably, and then attacked him for it?

                    Dean was trashed totally unfairly.  He was never likely to win Iowa, but his loss in New Hampshire was primarily due to the media libelling him nonstop.

                    -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

                    by neroden on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 11:15:27 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

          •  Which Roosevelt? (none / 0)

            Are you a Theodore Roosevelt Democrat, perhaps?

            You sound like the people who call C-Span on the Democratic Line, and then start by saying "I used to be a Democrat, but..."

            Follow where your heart leads you.

            What you see is what you get, but what you don't see is what ends up getting you.

            by Existentialist on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 04:32:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Dean has been much more a (none / 0)

            boon than a bane to the Deomcratic party, but the results of his efforts have yet to bear fruit.
            In the meantime, let the Rightwingers laugh at him because of some things he's said off the cuff. His strategy of geting funds back to state and local Dems will reap rewards later, IMO.

            Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Well, come on, doesn't anybody know!?!?

            by Erik the Red on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 12:16:51 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I did say those things ... (none / 1)

          ... by the very name I chose for participation here, Roosevelt Democrat (as opposed to Dean Democrat or Biden Democrat or Clinton Democrat or ...) but I don't see those things that were the bedrock of the New Deal and the Democratic Party for decades as being very important to today's Democratic Party. We have lost the connection with our roots, and we have lost the confidence of the American people along the way. Nothing would make me happier than to see us return to an updated New Deal/Arsenal of Democracy identity with the sense of justice and equality demanded by the New Frontier. I'll admit to living in our Democratic past, but it looks a lot better than what I have seen in the past 25 years masquerading as Democratic under the banner of the Democratic Party.
          •  Finally, you make your point well (none / 1)

            I agree with you that returning to the social safety net and promoting populist, FDR economic programs would serve the democratic party well.

            Individual candidates may be one way to carry these ideas forward, and we have many (at least some) candidates who are already doing this. But, a one-at-a-time, individual candidate strategy is a weakness. We need a national program, i.e. a party platform, agreements on goals and good marketing.

            I don't think Dean is your enemy.

            If he doesn't meet your ideals on one or another issue, then I support you in pushing on the donkey, so to speak. However, the Dean program, the reason he was selected for national party chair, was to revitalize the democratic party with new funding ideas, provide training the state & local party activists, new strategies  for the internet, new marketing mechanisms, new passion and enthusiasm.

            He was chosen because his campaign did a good job of implementing these structural ideas.

            For you to get what you want, let's say a stronger focus on traditional democratic issues, you should want Dean to succeed. If you don't want him to succeed, then I suggest you are proposing things that weaken the democratic party.

            •  Dean is doing a good job ... (none / 0)

              ... on structural matters, so everyone says, and I accept that analysis, at least until we see the results of the 2006 election. The problem is that he is also perceived as "head of the party" by much of the non-attuned public, and he often is the spokesperson for the party and therein lies the problem. Perhaps we need to have a new structure within DNC, a policy chair and committee. The DNC organizational chair (Dean) could continue to pursue structural matters and fundraising, but would have no policy responsibilities or authority whatsoever. The Democratic policy committee, and the policy chair (who could not be DNC organizational chair) and the policy subcommittees, would be responsible for putting forth the official Democratic Party policy positions. This would give us the unified voice we need, imo.
              •  Am I missing something? (none / 0)

                What, exactly, were Terry McAuliffe's stellar defense credentials that kept your cash rolling into DNC coffers?

                Upthread, you said you stopped giving to the DNC when Dean became the chairman because he had poor defense credentials (among other things). I'm just curious, what so impressed you about McAuliff's warrior cred.?

                While we're on that, what are Ken Mehlman's defense qualifications? Does the republican party suddenly look weak on defense to you because Mehlman speaks for his party? Do republicans look weak on defense to you at all? They should, of course, because they're wrong about all things defense related. Whereas the chair of your party got quite a few things right - Iraq War: an unnecessary mistake, has not made the US safer.

                Meanwhile keeps singing incoherent praises for the RNC about a completely failed and utterly wrongheaded policy of invading Iraq.  But you've got a problem with Dean...

                Sounding more and more like Bull-Moose to me.

                Time flies, whether you're having fun or not.

                by Kimberley on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 03:53:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  You mix a lot of things that ... (none / 0)

                  ... really don't go together. What has Terry MacAuliffe got to do with anything? We are talking about the DNC with Dean as head, at least I am. The only way I could protest his selection was to stop giving my money, since the votes of the Democratic grassroots in the primaries overwhelmingly rejecting Dean had little effect on the party apparachiks who selected the DNC chair. I did not like Dean's style of campaigning and I didn't want him speaking for the party. As for Dean being "right on Iraq," so were millions of other people, including me. That, by itself, is not a qualification to be an expert spokesperson on national security and defense and military matters. Even Dean had the good sense to say that his lack of experience on those issues was a hole in his resume. As for Mehlman and the RNC, the Republicans already have the public's trust, whether or not they deserve it. We Democrats are the ones who have to work harder to get that trust, in case you haven't noticed, and I didn't think Dean's appointment as DNC chair helped in that regard. The reception that John Murtha got shows that I was right. If we had had a credible critic of Iraq as DNC chair early on, we could have been scoring points against the Bushcos and built on the momentum started by Wes Clark and continued by John Kerry in 2004 that began to turn the image of the Democratic Party from one of weakness to one of strength.
                  •  Hmm (none / 0)

                    "What has Terry MacAuliffe got to do with anything?"

                    I thought I made it abundantly clear:

                    What, exactly, were Terry McAuliffe's stellar defense credentials that kept your cash rolling into DNC coffers?

                    Upthread, you said you stopped giving to the DNC when Dean became the chairman because he had poor defense credentials (among other things). I'm just curious, what so impressed you about McAuliff's warrior cred.?

                    You implied that the chair of the DNC had sufficient defense credentials until Dean was elected chairman:

                    That's why I stopped giving to DNC, because he was chosen as Chair. I didn't like the fact that some party apparachiks chose someone who had no national security and defense credentials to be party spokesperson at a time when the number one issue and weakness of the Bush administration was and is Iraq.

                    Now you say you've stopped donating to the DNC in part because of Dean's lack of defense and national security credentials (neither of which McAuliff had, that I'm aware of) thus my asking you if you knew something about McAuliff's warrior credentials that I don't know.

                    Furthermore, you are effectively punishing the DNC for electing as chairman one of the few men with balls enough to call the invasion of Iraq an unnecessary war and a diversion from the real war on terrorism, that has not enhanced America's national security - all of which is manifestly true.

                    And, last but not least, you admit that the voice of a party has no tangible impact on the public's perception of a party's ability to defend the country. (Neither, it seems, does one's voting record - but that's fodder for another discussion.)

                    I was just trying to figure out how all of those notions lead you to the conclusion that Dean is an inappropriate choice for chairman, so bad, in fact, that it warrants a cessation of financial support to the DNC from you.

                    I suspect you wanted a bellicose, jingo spewing chairman, because that's about the only way to swiftly trounce republicans at their own foul and disastrous game here. I'm damned glad that the DNC didn't oblige.

                    Time flies, whether you're having fun or not.

                    by Kimberley on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 05:38:35 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                •  Dean vs Reid et al (none / 0)

                  I agree.  Dean is doing his job. Contributions are up, I understand.  And the money is building local infrastructure (I understand from what I read here).

                  My question is, "Is Harry doing his?"  

                  When the Democratic Senators voice 44 different opinions on every bill, is Harry doing his job?  When Feinstein has to be turned on the Alito filibuster, is Harry doing his job?  When Kerry has to lead the filibuster (from Europe) is Harry doing his job?

                  The voters are angry. (Thank you Al Rogers)  If we want to have a voice in how this country is run in 07 and beyond, we need to shed ourselves of milk toast, middle of the road, bean counting, flip-floppers and offer real change.

                  The trouble is, except for Dean, the milk toast, middle of the road, flip-floppers are in charge of the party.  Ridding ourselves of Leiberman and Cuellar is a start.  I'm afraid we have a lot more house cleaning to do.

                  Bush Administration: Proving the saying, "You can fool most of the people some of the time, and 30% 24% 19% all the time."

                  by Helpless on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 11:31:24 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  Cross Purposes? (none / 0)

              I think you and RD may be at cross purposes. He doesn't seem to be talking about social programs, but rather centering on "national security" and "defense"--perhaps meaning a focus on producing munitions and weapons, as the late Sen. Henry "Scoop" Jackson espoused.

              What you see is what you get, but what you don't see is what ends up getting you.

              by Existentialist on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 04:38:19 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  If you don't like Howard Dean... (4.00 / 3)

        ...and think Defense is somehow related to National Security as it was when Roosevelt was fighting WWII you are in a time warp and sixty years out of date.

        National Defense should be about making sure the levees hold, and nobody gets left behind.

        If the United States stops its policies of interfering in other countries affairs, stops its policies of kidnapping, torture, murder, warrantless surveilance and death squads, rebuilds the countries it has invaded instead of wasting the money on Halliburton swears off its addiction to the military industrial complex and big oil, and stays out of other countries faces
        we wouldn't have the whole world up in arms against us.

        We need to focus on making people earn their tax breaks with credits for employers that let employees telecommute and New Markets Tax Credits and Neighborhood Synergy. Programs  that finance Medicaid, Medicare, Social Security, Healthcare, Education, and the Environment and forget about
        Spying on peoples finances for the IRS, and their political ideology to prevent demonstrations against Halliburton.

        Live Free or Die --- Investigate, Impeach, Incarcerate

        by rktect on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 02:26:49 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  DNC/RNC (none / 0)

        I think you'd have a better argument if that element--policy cred--had much to do with the function of DNC leadership.  Case in point:  Dean's counterpart, Ken Mehlman.  Not known for national security or defense credentials, or for any kind of stance on anything.  (The only thing I know about him is his rumored sexual preference.)  His predecessors, same thing.

        I'm sure you're not the only one who merges Candidate Dean with Chair Dean, but they're really not the same.

      •  If you give to a candidate that (none / 0)

        is an incumbent, and that is WAYYYY ahead (Feinstein, for example) then they will funnel the money where it needs to go.

        That way you can keep up the protest w/o harming your party.

        Back from the dead due to a busted ankle and severe boredom.

        by coigue on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 02:54:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Cutting off Nose to Spite Your Face (none / 0)

        You are a self described FDR Democrat. So am I. Presumably you want Democrats to win and to take over congress as a means to halt the destructiveness of this administration.

        That takes money and organization. Find a better way to protest and pony up a $20.00 a month (or whatever you can afford) democracy bond. Hell, send a letter once a month to Dean demanding he resign. It probably won't do any good, but then again, neither does withholding financial support AND that actually might hurt.

        Iowa is an unusual place. The best organization apparantly belonged to a party apparachik named Vilsak who decided the consenus candidate was Kerry, never mind Dean raised about 58 million in small dollar donations, i.e. from about 1 million supporters nationwide and Kerry at that time was doing so poorly he had to self fund to stay afloat.

        "Once in a while you get shown the light In the strangest of places if you look at it right"

        by molly bloom on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 09:15:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Local vs National Organization (none / 0)

      Historically, American political parties have been organized at the local level, and have only been pulled together once every four years, on an ad hoc basis, for Presidential elections. In the Senate, individuality was prized to a degree that severely limited any party discipline.

      The Republicans have changed that model, by creating stronger national organizations and by enforcing greater discipline in Congress. (Of course, the Republicans always had more discipline and their success at realigning the parties on a left-right spectrum has reinforced that advantage.)

      While the older model probably reduced partisan acrimony and provided greater protections for minority viewpoints, Democrats are being forced to catch up with the Republican organizational approach in order to compete successfully.

      Let's hope that can be accomplished in a framework that provides plenty of opportunities, as we have here at dKos, for open discussion of issues rather than just the handing down of daily talking points from on high.

      And yes, I agree, the pursestrings are the key to party organization.

    •  Christine Cegelis and Paul Hackett are ... (none / 0)

      two different situations. The DCCC recruited Tammy Duckworth because Christine Cegelis is a terrible fundraiser, whereas the Hackett thing was just the DSCC being stupid, i.e. Hackett was/is a good fundraiser, Sherrod Brown just had a much earlier start on fundraising.
    •  Like I said (none / 0)

      A Hobson's choice.  Do you want party discipline or do you want someone who agrees 100% with your views?

      Right now, given recent experience, I would prefer a little party discipline and a little real and effective opposition.

    •  I'm lost (none / 0)

      What's the "more left" position that's being excluded? What social policies, programs, and legal developments are we deciding not to support?

      Do I no longer count as the "netroots" if I look at the policies that didn't make it onto the Democratic National platform and decide that it would be a good thing for the party to move more left? What's the dividing line between left-leaning Democrat and not being a Democrat anymore? Are you shrinking the Tent? The netroots loses all meaning if the term is appropriated for a small Disneyfied tent.

      •  Are you responding to my original comment (none / 0)

        If you are, you will notice that nowhere in it is the term "left" or "more left" used.  It is a diary about the tension between party discipline and candidates views.  And candidates views can be non-ideological.  For example, Joe Biden viewed the bankruptcy bill as being beneficial.  That was not a view based on ideology.

        My comment is to just point out the fallacy in the contribute only to candidates approach.

  •  not to be a sore thumb, georgia10 (none / 0)

    but part or party, which is which?

    minor spelling errors, maybe?

  •  Well put, (none / 1)

    although I do think the netroots overall are slightly more left than the party median.  And that's not a bad thing.  
    For one thing, the center is in a constant state of flux.  If you asked where the center was 20 years ago on, say, gay marriage, it was certainly a lot further right than it is today.  Times change, societies change, and the netroots are a clear signal of how one chunk of the constituency is feeling at a particular moment.

    I agree that the most necessary goal for now is a unified party - there's no doubt of that.  But I think whether we're a little to the left, a little to the right, or whatever, is somewhat arbitrary (for the purposes of creating that unity).  We can stay vocal even when we disagree (especially when we disagree) without turning it into a party schism.  Ultimately, that'll drag the center further left, with us.

    Saint, n. A dead sinner revised and edited. - Ambrose Bierce

    by pico on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:36:54 PM PDT

    •  agreed. (none / 1)

      i personally would love to push our party to the left.  or see the rise of a strong, left third party that isn't laughed at the way nader was in 2000.

      moreover, I think there is a nuanced difference between solidarity and unity.  All of our little factions do not have to agree on everything; we just need to agree on who we want to represent us broadly.

      i don't think there will really ever be a single, resounding opinion that will speak to all democrats.  but a broad vision beyond "anything but bush, even a sock puppet" is vital to moving away from the three-branch attack we have right now in politics.
      Searching for a single moving issue may not be our best bet, unless it is far less innocuous than the ones who put us in this mess in the first place. now personally i'm not about diplomacy, but if it brings us a little closer to the middle from our far right position, it gives leftists like me more room to reach the other direction.

  •  What's wrong with pushing the part left? (4.00 / 3)

    As far as I can tell, the blogosphere is more left-wing than the average Democratic office-holder. Besides, if the party grassroots can achieve some kind of ideological unity, then there's a basis for forming a tight caucus and giving the party whips some real power.

    --simon

  •  And we have to stop allowing LIBERAL and LEFT (4.00 / 8)

    to be treated as sirty words. I don't give a damn if the Dems move left. Fine with me! Liberals are the only ones who have ever done anything for this country anyway. it's the right wingers who are all about preventing change from happening. They're all so damned uptight.
    Let's begin to embrace LIBERAL. We cannot be afraid of who we are - that's what has gotten the Dems where they are today - too afraid to stand up for what is right and what is just because they're scared of the playground bullies.
    Time for a gut check and time to fight back!

    "The truth shall set you free, but first it will piss you off!" - Gloria Steinem

    by MA Liberal on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:38:09 PM PDT

    •  Absolutely (4.00 / 3)

      The comments that democrats should dispute charges of a liberal bent is cowardly and I will never hide from my liberalism. I am proud to be left wing and wish my party would be more progressive. Stop running from the word, embrace it, be proud of it, or be a republican.

      You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

      by tazz on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:32:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactamundo (4.00 / 2)

      We need to stop running away from the name Liberal. What we need, in fact, is a national marketing campaign with a slogan along the lines of: "If you believe in Liberty, you're a Liberal."  Reclaim this word, put out a real liberal program, and stop trying to spin and dodge our way past any real discussion of the issues with a bunch of polit-buro approved talking points!  Leave that to Ken Mehlman and Scott McClellan.  

      "No more bullshit." -- Norman Mailer, NYC mayoral election slogan, 1969.

      by Egypt Steve on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:48:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Liberal has such a bad connottation ... (none / 0)

        partly because of its meanings in the English language. And I'm not talking about the obsolete definition meaning licentious that many conservatives throw around. I'm talking about this definition:
           1. Tending to give freely.
        It makes it sound like liberals are by their very nature fiscally irresponsible. That's why people use the word progressive nowadays.
    •  Kerry's missed opportunity (4.00 / 2)

      The best opportunity to do this is a Presidential campaign.  I'm not sure there's any other forum to cure the taint on "liberal."

      When Bush kept smirkingly calling him a "Massachussetts liberal" in the last debate, Kerry should have said:

      Why are you attacking my state?  Are you aware that Mass. has the lowest divorce rate and the [highest?] literacy rate in the country?  I'd say that's a pretty good record.

      And why is "liberal" a dirty word?

      Liberals like FDR thought up social security.
      Conservatives and Republicans bitterly opposed it.

      Liberals like LBJ thought up medicare.
      Conservatives and Republicans bitterly opposed it.

      Liberals like JFK and LBJ got Civil Rights laws passed.
      Conservatives and Republicans opposed them.

      Liberals like Bill Clinton created the greatest economy in the history of the world.
      Conservatives opposed him and tried to drive him from office for personal behavior.

      But finally, liberals like FDR protected our national security by leading us to victory against Nazism and Fascism; liberals like JFK faced down the USSR in the Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis.

      What has four years of right wing extreme conservatism brought us:  the worst attack on the US homeland in its history; a disastrous war based on lies; and a terrible economy with a deficit that will burden our children and grandchildren.

      So go ahead, Mr. President.  Call me what you want.  What I want is what liberals FDR, JFK and Bill Clinton wanted and got for America -- security against threats and security to live a decent life.

      Don't get me started . . .

      by Upper West on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 02:00:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Something like that... (none / 0)

        I didn't know why Kerry didn't just rip into Bush on making a derogatory statement about one of the states at all!

        "Mr. President, as I understand it you are the President of ALL the United States, including Massachusetts.

        If you are prepared to defame Massachusetts, how are the residents of any of the states to know that you will respect them and defend them and afford them equal protection under the law?

        Mr. President, without the patriots of the state of Massachusetts, people like John Adams, Sam Adams and Paul Revere, there would be no United States of America."

        Then again, I don't understand why John Kerry didn't take the fight to Bush in so many different ways:  Bush had so many vulnerabilities. We should have been able to laugh the guy right out of office.

        The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty. - John Adams

        by Malacandra on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 04:01:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yours would've been good too (none / 1)

          Before the third debate, I was praying that the flu shot disaster would come up. Surprisingly, Bush buddy Bob Schieffer asked about it in the first question.

          Instead of blasting away at the tremendous incompetence and linking it directly to national security (if you can't protect us against the flu, how can you protect us against terror), Kerry launched into "Here's my 5 point health plan."

          Kerry did so well in the first two debates.  He just didn't know how to go for the jugular when it counted.

          Don't get me started . . .

          by Upper West on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 06:23:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Yes! Now That's what I'm talking about! (none / 0)

        Bush Administration: Proving the saying, "You can fool most of the people some of the time, and 30% 24% 19% all the time."

        by Helpless on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 11:38:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Yes... but (none / 0)

      It would be interesting to do a poll on social-economic status on Daily Kos.

      I suspect most of us are from the liberal-Liberal wing of the democratic party. This segment has doubled in the last five years from about 9% to about 18% of the electorate, and now makes up perhaps half or more of the democratic party, depending somewhat on regional factors.

      However, a loyal and significant portion of the democratic party, consists of people who do not share all our liberal values, say on social issues. They are our friends on a significant number of very important issues and we need them as our allies and at election time.

      This split within the democratic party is the target of much triangulation by the republicans

      The blogs have done a good job at allowing us liberals to spout and and connect to each other. We owe it to each other to enter the party process, to help, to guide and to insist on progressive values. BUT, we also need to be strategic, pay attention to the sensibilities and issues of our friends even if we disagree.

      •  But (none / 0)

        I agree we need to fold in the moderates.  However, what makes you think that statements similar to the two proposed above would drive them away?

        Or would they view Kerry in a new light?  Someone not afraid of a fight.  Someone who could be trusted with the defense of our country.  

        And seeing their President taking one on the chin, for once, would they begin to see him as weak?

        I agree with the earlier post, no killer instinct there.  And to think Kerry, not Reid, led the attempted filibuster of Alito.

        Bush Administration: Proving the saying, "You can fool most of the people some of the time, and 30% 24% 19% all the time."

        by Helpless on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 11:52:24 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  left-libertarians (none / 0)

        Actually a lot of us here are left-libertarians: Issue #1 for us is government out of our bedroooms and away from our phone calls.

        Traditionally we've been extremely poorly represented nationally.  Dean has changed that.

        This group, as well as "fiscal conservatives", are now natural supporters of the Democratic Party, because both groups are being continuously assaulted by the so-called Republican Party.

        Stand on principle on matters of liberty, and be pragmatic about economic matters, and you'll get the support of everyone except the crazies who are hell-bent on controlling everyone else's sex lives (who are going to vote Republican anyway).

        -5.63, -8.10 | Impeach, Convict, Remove & Bar from Office, Arrest, Indict, Convict, Imprison!

        by neroden on Fri Feb 24, 2006 at 11:22:37 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Its not even a useful frame for discussion (none / 0)

      What does "Left" even mean?

      If it means the Dems should fight hard for national health care, then I'm all aboard.  If it means that we should promote a radical redistribution of wealth, then you lost me and most of America.

      We don't need to move "left" or "to the center."  We just need to hammer a few key issues:  

      National healthcare, Energy independence, More money for Science and Education and general, multi-lateral foreign policy and killing actual terrorists.

      I don't think those issues are terribly left of the "mainstream".  Most Americans favor working with allies, most Americans don't like our oil dependence, most Americans think it is ridiculous that Osama is still running around making videos.

      We just need a clear program, and we need ALL elected Democrats to get behind it.  Kudos to Georgia10!

      Inhofe is a wacko with a 46% approval rating: He's vulnerable.

      by tmendoza on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 03:46:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I think this is explains why so many Pols (none / 1)

    are posting here lately.

    Currently, the Democratic members of Congress are drifting about discombobulated from their core.  A centralized mission and focus is admittedly lacking; it's not just a right-wing myth.  

    For those that are waking up to the fact of a King, they are a bit confused. They all thought it was just politics as usual. They are looking for support, now as a lot of us did by coming here!

    They are asking as we did, is this really happening?

    Its kind of pathetic and sweet. And incredibly scary.

  •  Well said! (4.00 / 2)

    Your distinction between a minority party and the opposition party is absolutely on target. We don't hear a unified opposition party defending the interests of the people. It makes people think that what the Bush admin is doing is the best course of action.

    The Next Agenda a dkos-style blog for Canadian politics

    by Thursday Next on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:39:59 PM PDT

    •  Best course of action (none / 0)

      A mandate, perhaps?

      "We got the power now, motherfuckers - that's where it belongs..." - The Flaming Lips

      by ShowMe Indie on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:46:17 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes, exactly (none / 1)

      This has been their excuse for too long.

      Too many Democrats in Congress embrace our status as the minority party, while failing to realize that they are simultaneously the opposition and have a duty to their constituents and party to act as such.

      An opposition party actively blocks legislation that it sees as harmful, and uses every trick it has available to negotiate something better for its constituents. Democrats have been defanged by the accusation that they're being "obstructionist." Typical Rovian strategy - preemptively strike the strength of the opponent. Dems need new consultants - maybe some from a parliamentary environment like Britain or Canada, where opposition parties exercise strategic power all the time from a minority position.

    •  I believe that (none / 1)

      too many of them are still afraid of the "obstructionist" label being put on them. This is really silly, if true, when one considers how popular the Shrub was back then compared to now. Now's a very good time to be "obstructionist", if you ask me.

      Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men? Well, come on, doesn't anybody know!?!?

      by Erik the Red on Sun Feb 19, 2006 at 12:25:03 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  never thought I would have a quibble (4.00 / 2)

    with georgia10....I just sense a tiny bit of running away from liberal label.

    at any rate, what is the difference between a "national party" and "centrism"? perhaps I don't understand the distinction you are making.

    Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

    by Miss Devore on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:40:34 PM PDT

    •  centrism vs. national party (none / 1)

      first, our party is liberal. nothing to run away from there.

      second, i'm not advocating centrism, nor any moderation in our stances. What I am saying is I don't feel like liberals in Congess act like members of a national party.

      Maybe i should have made that clearer.

      •  amen (none / 1)

        unlike others, i didn't feel you were running away from liberal...on the contrary, i felt as though you actually validated owning that.  the larger point that i read, was just what you've clarified...they don't often ACT as a unified party with one voice.

        folks like us on the left are very suspicious of appearing to behave in a "lock step" manner, such of the repugs...but i don't believe that is what you're saying either.

        it would be nice to see a minority AND opposition party acting like one together.

        "If I can't change the world, I'll change the world within my reach"
        Mark Erelli & Catie Curtis

        by Heather in SFBay on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:51:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I still don't get it (4.00 / 2)

        hypothetical:

        Russ Feingold is a liberal Democrat.

        How does he not "act like a member of a national party?"

        In this case, I think he reminds what it is to be an American, first and foremost. I see less partisanship in him, than say (to take a recent egregious example), Shumer. Or even Hillary despite her token pandering.

        Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

        by Miss Devore on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:52:22 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  point being... (none / 1)

          ...russ acts like what the rest of the party should.  the question is...where are they?

          "If I can't change the world, I'll change the world within my reach"
          Mark Erelli & Catie Curtis

          by Heather in SFBay on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:54:36 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  where are they? (none / 0)

            trying to define "senatorial" as being a savvy buck-getter.

            I used to admire Schumer so much for his taking gun fanatics to task. But I guess that was back when Clinton was prez. Looks like he lost courage or suffers from inofficetoolong.

            Rome wasn't burnt in a day.

            by Miss Devore on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:18:44 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Feingold is the exception (none / 1)

          the man has been the epitome of what it means to act as a member of a national party.

          on that note, I'm off for the rest of the afternoon. I look forward to catching up with the discussion later.

          •  Check out Feingold's latest podcast (4.00 / 3)

            He takes his fellow Democrats to task--and deservedly so--for their flip-flop on the Patriot Act. And he blames consultants for warning lawmakers not to tak too tough a stance on the Act because they might be seen as "soft on terror."

            Link:

            http://www.progressivepatriotsfund.com/...

            Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

            by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:02:42 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  So to be a member... (none / 0)

            of a national party, you have to be the most far left member of Congress?  Don't get me wrong, I like Feingold and his beliefs and how he speaks out and stands up for things, but what has he done that demonstrates this national Democratic party?  
            I'm just not understanding what you mean by a national party.  Do you mean a party that votes and acts in unison on every issue? Something the Republicans do with Bush's agenda that we all hate, where when one member does something that displays an independent streak, such as Specter raising questions about domestic spying or Hagel raising questions about Bush's foreign policy, that member is chastised and is thrown out of the party by the base.

            While I do believe we need to be united, we must also allow people with far-ranging thoughts and beliefs within our party to be able to voice their different views without being tossed out on the streets for not following the party discipline.    

            "The only thing I would trust Dick Cheney on is if I had a dead hooker in my hotel room." --Jon Stewart

            by DemBrock on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:38:43 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

      •  Just To Cut the Party (none / 0)

        a little slack here, although I agree in theory what you are saying - these are times like we have never seen before. The political positions staked out by each member of both parties are very complicated. I think even with the lack of a bully-pulpit necessary to communicate our ideas and values we have for the most part, but not entirely, held together pretty well.

        Even the Thugs with a more visible bully-pulpit have their splinter groups. If it were not, as reported on PRS' Now last night, for the excessive Pork that is handed out to their members to bribe them into loyalty, they too would look more fractured, as is really the case.

        "You Have The Power!" - Howard Dean

        by talex on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:49:28 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Yes... members of Congress do what they want (none / 0)

        Let me ask some stupid questions please:

        I lost track of the Democratic Party in the 90s.  But I'll be honest.  I don't remember how it used to be when we were successful.  Was there such a lag in communications between the party and our members of Congress?  Who is supposed to lead ALL Democrats in this country?  

        * What is Leading vs Communicating?  

        Is there a communcations system that is currently taking place between the party organization and members of Congress?

        • How does our party create talking points?

        • Do we even issue talking points?

        Does anyone keep track of who's doing what, and does anyone actually keep track of ongoing situations and then use a communications system to get the information to party members, bloggers and the smallest of local and state party membership?  

        Seems the communications are jacked up, and it seems that something GREAT might happen if we fixed that.  However, it would mean that we work harder at the leadership level, and it means that someone (some ONE person) would lead us.  That also means that the members of Congress would follow that leader.  

        • Is the thought of a leader leading and followers following an outdated concept?  Could the Dems all unite around one leader?  

        • Would the Congressional members and the 2008 candidates be willing to follow or unite with a leader?

        Appreciate some answers and thoughts around these questions.

        Thanks!
           

  •  why do I feel (none / 1)

    like you just used the word liberal, like a dirty word ? Maybe I  misunderstood your point, but I'm still feeling that way.

    -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

    by OneCrankyDom on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:40:55 PM PDT

    •  misunderstood (4.00 / 2)

      ain't nothing wrong with being a liberal

      but I just wish our liberals would act like democrats. Saying you're against domestic spying to preseve the constitution? Liberal. Actually doing something about it, in conjuction with other party members? Being a democrat.

      •  Maybe you have been "framed" (none / 0)

        Georgia,

        My take was just about the same as his. Maybe you have been framed.

        If you don't think there is anything wrong with being liberal, act like it.

        And no, the constitution is not consevative/liberal. It is the constitution.

      •  what ? (none / 0)

        did you just say that being a liberal means I don't also take action ?

        -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

        by OneCrankyDom on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:02:47 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  No (none / 0)

          I think she is saying it is not enough just to be liberal; to vote liberal.  Just being liberal is not getting the job done.

          Individual liberals have no strength at all.  To achieve anything you have to band together.  That is what party is supposed to be about.  It could provide strength through numbers. But Dems don't act like a cohesive party.  Instead they are a bunch of liberals freelancing essentially for themselves, jockying for a run at the big prize, who are not effectively integrated into a coherent party.

          If you want something other than the obvious to happen - you've got to do something other than the obvious...Douglas Adams

          by trillian on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:15:11 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  "a bunch of liberals" ? (none / 1)

             I'm sorry, but that sounds like it came from a ringwinger. I have read numerous posts about coming together, standing hip to hip, being one group,etc. Now I'm still feeling like I have been used just to make phone calls, fax letters, sign petitions for a Party that doesn't want to include us " liberals ". Instead, we should surrender our views and move to the center so the Dems can win. After reading this post, it's seems that if we do that we will be abandoned like the okie dittoheads are by the right. Please tell me why I shouldnt feel this way ??

            -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

            by OneCrankyDom on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:27:38 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Liberal (none / 0)

          I think what she is trying to say is that our party like it or not is the Democratic Party, not the Liberal party. Liberal is an ideology while the Democrats are actually the party that represents them and therefore should back up their ideology with action.
      •  Nice distinction (none / 0)

        The activism of legislation represented by the Democratic Party is its strength, and everyone knows it.  We easily forget that the Democratic congresspeople have been pushed out of American government, especially in the executive branch.

        Here are the key points this term:  inviting bipartisan behavior; ethical political conduct; open government; competence.

        And when we finally win, it's up to our elected people to live up to it.  Call it a "Contract With America"....

        But I'm still a liberal at heart.

        The only way to change this country is if money follows politics, not the other way around.

        by jcrit on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:04:43 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Times are achangin (4.00 / 2)

    The Democratic party is the liberal party in America. It needs to act like it. Our best proposals in the areas of health care, economy, energy and foreign policy are pretty liberal. Americans have ample evidence that the "conservative" policies aren't working. There is no need for us to be ashamed.

    Lately the word "liberal" has gained a new cache.

    Over the past few years liberals have been in hiding, calling themselves moderates or centrists. Many have been just plain old hiding out. During the past few months, as the lie has been put to "conservative" policies, more and more of us seem to be coming out of the closet.

    While Democrats need to act like a unified party. They also need to realize that their ideas are the ideas that have a future.  Mullman and his old tired frames can go f*** themelves.  

     

    •  I think Georgia10's point is (none / 0)

      that the problem is not that Democrats don't act like liberals, it's that they don't act like a party.
    •  Disagre, sort of (none / 0)

      "Our best proposals in the areas of health care, economy, energy and foreign policy are pretty liberal."

      I don't think the "liberal" label is useful in America political debate.  Take foreign policy:  The majority Dem position is something like this: (1) Work with our allies to hunt down and capture/kill actual terrorists (2) Protect ourselves at home with better security (3) Try not to do stuff that makes people hate America (when possible).  Are those "liberal" ideas?  I don't think so.  Pragmatic, multi-lateral.   Is the Republican foreign policy "conservative?"  No. Invading random countries and trying to change their government is the opposite of conservative.

      On the Economy Dems aren't that liberal, and I don' think we should be.  We don't believe in guaranteed employment or saddling employers with Euro-style employment regulations.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but most Dems just want better and more access to Education, research into high technology and job training for people who lose their jobs.  Again, fairly pragmatic, not terribly liberal, at least as the word was used in the 20th century in the West.

      Healthcare: bingo.  Liberal.  National healthcare for all is a traditional liberal position.  And we should fight hard for it.

      Inhofe is a wacko with a 46% approval rating: He's vulnerable.

      by tmendoza on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 03:57:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We agree on a pragmatic approach to issues. (none / 0)

        We just disagree on whether they are liberal. We have allowed the Republicans to frame us. The common sense positions you state have been liberal for a long time. Liberals are not socialists. Never  have been. Someplace along the line we let the Republicans (I hesitate to call them conservatives because they are not conservative in any traditional sense of the word) to tie us to positions we have never taken.  

        If you think about the history of American liberalism it is clear that it is pragmatic and not deeply tied to dogma. Most of us just believe that we can do things to improve the lot of the average citizen. Sometimes a little. Sometimes a lot. Always moving forward in a pragmatic way.

        Some have said we American liberals have a hard time articulating a "philosophy" like the Conservatives, Libertarians, Socialists, Facists, Communists or any of the other Social Darwinst movements and they are right, we do, because we believe in doing what works, not forcing what we believe to work.

  •  Every outrage they put on us, I look around (none / 0)

    for our Democrats to raise the roof, and there is silence.  Well put, Georgia 10.  Until we have a functional party (as opposed to DYSFUNCTIONAL/NONEXISTANT) with a united message and a united purpose, we have nothing and we will continue to lose, lose, lose, until we no longer have a country to lose!

    And I agree with the message above, that it is so OVERDUE to start reframing "Liberal" by using right wing outrages and saying that Democrats, liberal or otherwise, would NEVER ever do them..

    We need Special Prosecutors. NOW.

    by CalDoc on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:43:25 PM PDT

  •  What the Republicans claim is that we (none / 1)

    don't have any plans or ideas for how to continue on with their failed policies, and they're damn right about that. They want our ideas for continuing on with their failed wars, with their failed Katrina recovery, with their failed health care, with their failed Department of Homeland Security, etc.  What they haven't quite grasped is that our first idea is to stop doing what they've been doing.

    -6.88/-5.64 * We won! We won!.... Now back on your heads.

    by John West on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 12:44:15 PM PDT

    •  Got that right (none / 0)

      All goopers have ever done is kill anything successful that is associated with Democrats and replaced it with a Bizarro version that steals from the success of the former, and then cheapens the original need for and intent of the legislation involved.

      It goes back for me, to the CETA(Comprehensive Employment and Training Act) program, an excellent employment and jobs training partnership that formed between government and business.  Reagan killed it the first year in office, and replaced it with JTPA(Jobs Training Partnership Act).  The former focused on the worker, the latter focused on the employer.  JTPA is gone, soon to be joined by EPA, OSHA, FDA, and all those other Democratic initiatives that were all, incidentally, passed with bipartisan support.

      The only way to change this country is if money follows politics, not the other way around.

      by jcrit on Sat Feb 18, 2006 at 01:14:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]