My apologies

I wrote a comment to a diary "Netherlands: Watch a racy film to get immigration" in which I was uncomfortable about the new Dutch proposal to require immigrants to view films with men kissing and topless women. I said I thought written materials could suffice. I was ignorant at the time of a study of Dutch gays being harassed and sometimes attacked by North African youths. So the visuals of men kissing now appear very important, and not just giving written discussions of Dutch society. Holland has led the way in gay rights, and the film seems a proactive way of saying "Gay rights are part of our culture, and an important part."  
      Sometimes I do feel Muslims are demonized en masse on this site, though. Iran is a particularly repressive state, for example, as is Saudi Arabia. Can we try not to lump everything into "Muslimfanatics," in the same way that we recognize Matthew Shephard's murder was much more likey to happen in Wyoming or Texas than in New York or Massachusetts, and that gay adoptive rights are more likely to be stripped in Florida than Vermont?

The article Ruffledfeather linked to noted:

Dutch theologian Karel Steenbrink criticized the 105-minute movie, saying it would be offensive to some Muslims. "It is not a prudent way of welcoming people to the Netherlands," said Steenbrink, a professor at the University of Utrecht. "Minister Verdonk has radical ideas."
  But Mohammed Sini, the chairman of Islam and Citizenship, a national Muslim organization, defended the film, saying that homosexuality is "a reality."  Sini urged all immigrants "to embrace modernity."

   The advancement of gay rights is one of the wonders occurring around us, and the domino effect taking place, eg, in Canada, in province after province, is one of the things that gives me hope when I feel as if the world is moving backward into "otherness" hysteria. Spain's legalization of gay marriage? A joyous moment--and who could have predicted this in Franco's ultra-Catholic country? Holland's foregrounding of normalization of gay life in its immigration materials is therefore to be commended.
    I'm still not sold on the need to show film of topless women--how often does one see them strolling around any capital city? Red light districts are self-explanatory and easy to avoid. A few covers of Penthouse and Maxim would have given the idea. Will they also pipe hash smoke into the room to accustom them to that? Or will a picture of the Milk Bar suffice?

•  Prostitution isn't limited...

  ... to the red light district here in Amsterdam.

  If I lean out of my living room window and look down the street, I can see a few red lights in an alley.  Yep, they're prostitutes.  And one canal over, they aren't in the alley - they're in buildings on the street running along the canal.  And we're about a 20 minute walk from the main red light district.

  So, it's hard to avoid seeing prostitutes in their windows here.

  As for "topless women walking around the streets", obviously they don't walk.  They're in windows.  Usually not quite topless, unless you count covering the nipples and not the rest of the breast as "topless".

  Look, I think that film is a good idea.  Unless you've been here, you don't realize that it's accurate.  And it's a good idea to know what things are like here in the Netherlands.

  If you're uncomfortable with legalized prostitution, relaxed drug laws, and pro-gay policies, you'll be uncomfortable here.  No doubt about it.

  I think maybe my husband, who is Dutch, should post a diary explaining all of this.  However, in his own words, he's "way lazy" when it comes to writing diaries ;-)

  But you never know, heh.

  The immigration issue here is much, much more complex than anyone seems to understand here at dailyKos.  It isn't comparable to American immigration issues, at least in most respects.

  (And immigrating here is fucking expensive, which I think is very exclusionary, but that's an entirely different issue.)

  by Plutonium Page on Fri Mar 17, 2006 at 08:23:13 AM PDT

  •  Encourage Frank to write that diary, please

    I'd love to hear more about the Netherlands from someone intimately familiar with them. It is, after all, one of the more socially liberal enclaves in the world, though I understand politically it's taken a little turn toward the right in recent years.

    Still, most of what I know about the Netherlands is what I've gleaned from studying history, reading the gay press (which of course talks primarily about sex and drugs), and snippets from you and Frank. More information is always a good thing.

    by musing85 on Fri Mar 17, 2006 at 08:38:04 AM PDT

•  You need to fix the Poll.

  It doesn't offer any choices in response to your question.

  
  
  

  by another American on Fri Mar 17, 2006 at 08:26:44 AM PDT

•  Are we carefull?

  Too many people around here aren't careful about generalizing about any religious group, or about all religious people as a group.

  by Muwarr90 on Fri Mar 17, 2006 at 08:48:31 AM PDT