I Know Ben Domenech

Georgia10 asked this morning on the front page, "Do you know Ben Domenech?" Well, I do know Ben Domenech. He is a friendly, intelligent, personable and witty guy. This may come as a surprise to those who don't know anything about him but for the information they've read over the past two days. He's a guy you'd play poker with every week. I know, because that's how I met him. For over a year I played in a regular poker game that Ben also frequented. These days the game has dwindled to once every month or so, but we still meet over cards and chips and beer and have a good time. In fact, I saw him this past Sunday.

Domenech and I don't agree on a lot of things, perhaps even most things. Some of what he's written in the past on his blog I disagree with vehemently. The politicians he's worked for I disagree with vehemently. The authors he works for I disagree with vehemently. Though we agree on very little politically, this diary isn't about our disagreement about ideas. We handle that by being able to carry forth a conversation about our views of the world without resorting to name calling and insults.

Contrast that with the tone of the comments I've seen here and around the blogosphere about Ben, by people who surely haven't met him is sad. It's petty, it's despicable, and readers here should be above the sort of crap that gets spouted in threads like Georgia10's, where my friend is called "smarmy dickhead," "asshole-kid-moron," "tending-towards-the-moronic," and perhaps worst of all, attacks on his mother.

I know Ben Domenech, and no matter how you feel about what he writes or the conservative ideals he values, he doesn't deserve the personal attacks being spewed forth here by those who haven't met him. Rip apart his record in the blogosphere, disagree with things he's written and the people he works for, but enough with the name-calling and personal attacks.

•  Ben who?

  why anyone cares is beyond me
  

  by bleargh on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:51:41 AM PDT

•  Ben who?

  I can't wait until next week when all the free publicity has died down

  by bleargh on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:52:20 AM PDT

•  Tell your friend Ben

  That only a complete scumbag would have defamed Coretta Scott King the way he did.

  Actions speak louder than words - and both Domenech's words and his actions are appalling. When he conducts himself responsibly, focuses on fact, and stops casting wide aspersions by inciting racism, he'll be worthy of my respect.

  And not before.

  by Mickazoid on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:52:32 AM PDT

  •  it's the Eminem defense

    by bleargh on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:53:32 AM PDT

  •  yeah

    Something tells me you're white.

    Some political differences can be tolerated.

    Racism can't be.

    by Karl the Idiot on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:53:58 AM PDT

•  Anyone who spews hate-speech like Ben's...

  deserves to be insulted personally.

  by mikenlola on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:52:39 AM PDT

  •  You mean like this?

    Does Bush still equal Hitler?
    By: Augustine

    What say you?

    Actually, Dobson's soft-pedaling it.  The worst black-robed men and women are worse then the KKK, and not just because they have the authority of the state behind them.  They don't even use the vile pretense of skin color - they dismiss the value of all unborn lives, not just the lives of ethnic minorities.

    Really deep thoughts there.

    Did he give you any of his CafePress gear for the holidays?

    by mini mum on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:58:37 AM PDT

    •  oy the cafe press crap

      is loooooathesome... has THAT been brought to WAPO's attention? pro-Contra t-shirts?

      by PitPat on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:09:16 PM PDT

    •  Nepotism, plain and simple

      A wet-behind-the-ears kid whose own blog posts barely pass basic grammar requirements gets a job with the WaPo and his dad's on the Bush team? Ya don't say...

      Just like Shrub - advancing through life not on brains or merit, but on daddy!

      by MissAnneThrope on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:20:48 PM PDT

    •  I checked out the vanity gear...

      and, although I was not looking for it, I was slapped in the face with 'Made in China'

      Have these folks every heard of 'walking the walk'?

      by stumpy on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 07:46:26 AM PDT

•  Sad is your post.

  You are obviously a whiney ass titty baby that doesn't mind hanging out with racist scum.

  and:

  "He's a guy you'd play poker with every week."

  No I wouldn't.

  by lightnessofbeing on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:52:57 AM PDT

  •  And Bush was

    the kind of guy we would like to have a beer with.

    Makes such a good case, this diarist.

    by Ugluks Flea on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:57:28 AM PDT

  •  Little over the top dude. Keep it real n/t

    by Spud1 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:04:47 PM PDT

    •  coming from

      someone using a term that went out of date in the late 80's

      I'll have to ponder that.

      by lightnessofbeing on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:30:27 PM PDT

      •  Yes, my hipster days are long over. I barely have

        time to keep up with my family, my work, local politics and current events. Why not ponder being more polite than how out of date I am?

        by Spud1 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:40:34 PM PDT

        •  You're the one who had enough time to

          try and control my behavior.

          by lightnessofbeing on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 03:58:44 PM PDT

          •  I wouldn't use the word 'control', but I

            understand why you might think that. My children act the same way.

            by Spud1 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 04:42:22 PM PDT

            •  and

              do your children call you a condescending asshole too?

              by lightnessofbeing on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 03:02:38 AM PDT

              •  Well no, but then

                they have been taught to not call people that they disagree with "whiney ass titty baby", but instead to treat others with respect. Furthermore, they take constructive criticism well, and rather than more name calling, perform some introspectoin.

                Why don't you go back and re-read my initial comment. I hardly flamed you, and in fact was gentle.

                by Spud1 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 05:16:28 AM PDT

                •  I suggest you look up the history

                  of whiney ass titty baby and see who else has used it and when they apply it.

                  by lightnessofbeing on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 04:37:28 PM PDT

  •  I wish 1's existed still

    Because the first line of your comment makes you deserve one.  I hate the new recommend system.

    by bam101 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:55:51 PM PDT

•  karma

  karma is a bitch aint it?  You spew shit out into the universe it comes back to ya pretty quick.

  Maybe you should tell that to your lil friend over the next poker game and while you are at it, ask him why his ass isn't over in Iraq fighting the "good war".

  Personally just because you can overlook your friend being a bigotted idiot dickhead, don't expect the rest of the world to follow.

  by pissedpatriot on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:54:17 AM PDT

•  Hi Ben!

  Hiding behind the identity of a supposed friend?

  by lightnessofbeing on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:55:49 AM PDT

  •  haha

    I'm pretty sure there's enough evidence out there that I'm not that Ben that to even make this suggestion is hilarious.

    by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:03:55 PM PDT

    •  I imagine

      That if this one particular brother-in-law of mine decided to blog--oy--and came to the attention of Kosers, then I might feel compelled to tell Kosers how my bro-in-law may be a racist and cruel and not so smart, but in person is a funny, generous, and loving guy to my sis.

      But dude--I WOULD NOT CHASTISE KOSERS FOR KNOCKING HIS ASS DOWN THE PROVERBIAL FUCKING STREET FOR HIS SHITFUCK OFFENSIVE VIEWS. That is indefensible. That fuck is an offensive fuck. You want to put another view of him in here, fine. But chastise me for calling him the slug-headed fuck he is and you get nothing from me.

      by Earl on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:19:42 PM PDT

    •  umm it was a joke

      You must be "Derf" then.

      by lightnessofbeing on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:28:13 PM PDT

  •  Well, doctor, it's like this...

    I have this friend and he has this problem. You see I...I mean, this friend of mine...

    by MissAnneThrope on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:23:16 PM PDT

•  Tell him to read Georgia's post

  he may learn a thing or two

  by Truza on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:55:50 AM PDT

•  Sooo...

  We can judge him by his personal stands, written on public forums and his vehement support of despicable people.. bt we can't attack his "character"? Just what do your opinions adn actions represent? Hair color?

  by librarianman on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:56:05 AM PDT

•  I've never met Michael Weiner

  but I refer to him as "that rotten-toothed bigot";

  I've never met Rush Limbaugh, but I call him "that drug-abusing, cowardly hypocrite";

  I've never met Bill O'Reilly, but he's a "pathologically lying turd" in my book.

  And had I the misfortune of one day discovering that one of the guys in my monthly poker game reportedly called Coretta Scott King a communist on the day of her funeral, and that this guy was also starting as a columnist who will no doubt be crapping all over public discourse with the latest GOP talking points, delusional pro-war rhetoric and Stalinist personality cult fawning about Bush, I'd find another poker game.

  by grimc on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:57:08 AM PDT

•  i'm sure he may be a great guy

  to play poker with and have a beer with.

  I've always made a distinction between the political and personal.  I completely agree about the attacks on his mother being inappropriate.  However, I have to point out that Ben himself didn't hold himself to a higher standard. He called the members of this site "unhinged" and "motivated by partisan rage."  He implies we're stupid when he writes that "smart Democrats" should reject us.

  Personally, he may be a great guy. Politically? The guy needs to be called out on his bullshit.

  by georgia10 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:58:07 AM PDT

  •  disagree

    I soooo disagree with this good guy personally, dickhead publically persona, its a cop out. If you are a dickhead, you are a dickhead.

    Its like the old copout, don't take it personally it is only business.  That too is bullshit, business effects all of us PERSONALLY.

    So please with all due respect, don't cover for an idiot.

    by pissedpatriot on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:01:26 PM PDT

    •  Right...

       Just because someone can put on a socially acceptable face some or most of the time doesn't mean that regular reprehensible behavior shouldn't be called by the appropriate name.

       Thieves and murders are usually nice to their family, but we still call them thieves and murders. Mussolini could be charming, but he was still just a charismatic two-bit thug.

       Ben Domenech is a plagiarist, an asshole, and yet another in a long recent line of over-privileged Republican whiners. There seems to be a mind-set that the 'rules of life' are for everybody else and it's just not fair that they be applied to the new breed of Republican.

       And speaking of plagiarists, Ben's "departure statement" is managing to make Jayson Blair look good in comparison.

      by Tejas Geek on Fri Mar 24, 2006 at 04:10:26 PM PDT

  •  I agree!

    I agree. And I'm all for it! Hell, I've been known to do some calling out myself during poker games. :) I urge anyone who disagrees with him to argue, loudly even, about the substance of his ideas. Debating ideas is, I think, the best way to celebrate the freedom of speech we all share.

    I wasn't responding or attacking you for your post this morning, Georgia...I hope you didn't take it personally. I was just responding to some of the comments found in the thread.

    by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:02:25 PM PDT

    •  Debate

      Debate an idiot? nah ignore the idiot is the way to go.

      He is at best is an juvenile know nothing kid which at the baby age of 24 can and should be expected, at worst he is another fake partisan shock infotainer like Coulter.  

      Either way he isn't worth reading and/or debating.

      by pissedpatriot on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:05:54 PM PDT

    •  Debate on a blog that doesn't allow comments?

      Fuck him. Fuck the WaPo. And Fuck the WATB!

      by ABBinMI on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:42:27 PM PDT

    •  Well

      I am not sure what your complaint is then.

      Some other folks are being too personal?

      Well, shit happens.

      Do me a favor and look at what Ben and his GOP friends have written about me and then I'll listen to you.

      Seriously, this diary is way off the mark.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:43:56 PM PDT

    •  I know him, too.

      But he goes by another name here in the Deep South.  We've been friends since 1981.  Our circle of college pals, now email friends, spread around the country and around the world (from time-to-time) can't tell how much he really believes the neo-fascist tripe he spews, and how much he just goes overboard to get reactions.

      In the end, if he called at 2:00 a.m. and was in trouble of some sort, I'd be there; and he for me.  But we went through a lot together, over the years.

      And, in the end, if he set up a blog and spewed hate on it (he wouldn't, but if he did...), and Kosniacs or whoever called "bullshit" on him or even, in some cases, threw epithets at him, I'd probably say to him:  "Hey, if you can't stand the heat, then stop throwing gas on the fire."

      I certainly wouldn't jump on Kosnovarians for piling opprobrium on him, were he to spew hate on the nets (again, he wouldn't).

      Is "your Ben" thick-skinned, or another chickenhawk?  I mean, as a (presumably) able-bodied 24 year old who supports Bush's War, what's he doing playing poker on Sunday nights with likes of you, instead of walking point with some squad in Fallujah?  Oh, that's right, he's a cowardly hypocrite.  My email's letsbengoshiATyahoo
      He's free to drop me a line any time if he'd like to discuss this  GOP-Coward - to - Man.

      BenGoshi
      _________________________________________________

      by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:00:22 PM PDT

    •  I know him, too.

      But he goes by another name here in the Deep South.  We've been friends since 1981.  Our circle of college pals, now email friends, spread around the country and around the world (from time-to-time) can't tell how much he really believes the neo-fascist tripe he spews, and how much he just goes overboard to get reactions.

      In the end, if he called at 2:00 a.m. and was in trouble of some sort, I'd be there; and he for me.  But we went through a lot together, over the years.

      And, in the end, if he set up a blog and spewed hate on it (he wouldn't, but if he did...), and Kosniacs or whoever called "bullshit" on him or even, in some cases, threw epithets at him, I'd probably say to him:  "Hey, if you can't stand the heat, then stop throwing gas on the fire."

      I certainly wouldn't jump on Kosnovarians for piling opprobrium on him, were he to spew hate on the nets (again, he wouldn't).

      Is "your Ben" thick-skinned, or another chickenhawk?  I mean, as a (presumably) able-bodied 24 year old who supports Bush's War, what's he doing playing poker on Sunday nights with likes of you, instead of walking point with some squad in Fallujah?  Oh, that's right, he's a cowardly hypocrite.  My email's letsbengoshiATyahoo
      He's free to drop me a line any time if he'd like to discuss this  GOP-Coward - to - Man.

      BenGoshi
      _________________________________________________

      by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:01:33 PM PDT

    •  That is disingenuous ...

      From the posts I've read by him, Domenech says nothing of substance -- debating ideas requires ideas to debate.  I conclude he is one of two things -- either he has jumped on the neocon bandwagon and really believes what he is saying or he is being opportunistic and is doing it for the money and notoriety (though of course the two need not be mutually exclusive).  The kind of rhetoric Domenech puts out is not something that can be discussed, it's propaganda plain and simple.  That speaks to character.  It is not surprising, then, that his character is being attacked.

      by Nightprowlkitty on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 03:12:38 PM PDT

  •  The Political, The Personal, The Persona

    The reason you can separate the political from the personal is that people aren't always pushing their politics into personal interactions. I'm sure Ben doesn't speak in an inflammatory manner when he's playing poker.

    What acaben is saying is that we wouldn't call BD a 'smarmy dickhead,' at least not within earshot, if we knew the guy. Since we don't, we should shut up.

    Well, we're not saying anything to poker-world Ben. We're calling the persona that takes credit for his blogging a 'smarmy dickhead'.

    If BD can keep his persona distinct from his personality, so can the rest of us, and I would suggest, so can acaben.

    by bonobo on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:17:22 PM PDT

  •  And attacking his mother is fine

    Really, this is a day that the Kos community should not be proud of.

    by bam101 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:57:03 PM PDT

    •  must

      must not be up on our youth culture. He is 24, he should be

      http://www.mtv.com/...

      by pissedpatriot on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:07:09 PM PDT

•  Sorry bud

  But your friend Ben doesn't deserve to be treated with the utmost respect when his redstate.com postings follow along these lines:

  Now we all know the boundaries of personal attacks  By: Augustine  

  But I've just gotta say it: Dan Froomkin is without question a lying weasel-faced Democrat shill.

  by Slim Tyranny on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:59:16 AM PDT

  •  That one was amusing

    Because Ben was hired on to "balance" Froomkin.

    by mini mum on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:19:54 PM PDT

    •  Exactly balanced

      since Ben is a lying weasel-faced Republican shill.

      Of course, Froomkin isn't a lying weasel-faced Democrat shill, but I volunteer to start the WAPO "Blue America" blog and play the part of the lying weasel-faced Democratic shill.

      by Slim Tyranny on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:47:59 PM PDT

    •  That's the part that fries me.

      Ben's is the only blog on Wa Po that is openly, unabashedly political.

      He's not charged with reporting anything or covering a beat, as it were (which is Froomkin's job, by the way...and would be no matter who was in the White House...)

      It's the very thing that Accuracy in the Media was railing against the networks for:

      putting right wing pundits up against "so called left wing" journalists.  Pundits are not held to the same intellectual standard as journalists.  So you've got a debate between professional bullshitters and professional fact gatherers.

      And guess who wins in this society?  Not the folks listening to the exchange...

      My eyes will never gaze upon his sorry excuse for a blog.  

      by suzq on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:13:43 PM PDT

•  Hmm

  I don't know ...

  I guess I have not read a lot of the outrageous stuff.  But I think the following is fair to point out:

  1. He probably ain't qualified for this job.  What kind of 24-year old gets a job -- any job -- writing an opinion column for the Washington Post, even if it's just the online edition?  He must be a heckuva journalist.  Except that he's not.  He's not a journalist.  He's the son of a Bush White House staffer and he's a junior Republican Party operative.  If that is enough to get a prestige job like his Washington Post position, things are pretty sad at the paper.

  2. He's first columns have been outrageous and inflammatory.  He's supposed to be a "balance" to "liberals" in the online edition of the Washington Post.  Fabulous.  But there are no liberals at the Washington Post.  There are moderates and the center-left (Dionne, Froomkin) but no tried and true Blue liberals.  His idea of balance is to be an outrageous, far, far, far right-winger and craven Bush sycophant.  To some degree, he is inviting the sort of harsh, imflammatory personal criticism that you cite.

  3. No, I would not play poker with him, not if his character is in line with the kind of stuff he writes.  If it's not -- is he writing satire?  Rhetoric for rhetoric's sake?  Tell me.  At any rate, if he truly does not believe what he writes, I have to wonder why the Post is paying him for this job.

  That's all.

  by bink on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 11:59:53 AM PDT

  •  Has WaPo gone infotaitment?

    At any rate, if he truly does not believe what he writes, I have to wonder why the Post is paying him for this job.

    If this is true, then Ben would be an entertainer.  That might be closer to the truth.  Clown, buffoon, jester?  But if Ben is an entertainer and not a journalist, then what does that make WaPo?

    by Fabian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:43:21 PM PDT

  •  I think his hiring at the Post

    is simply reflective of what the paygrade at WaPo online must be.

    Real, real low.

    by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:54:31 PM PDT

•  Dude read your friends writings before you post

  Because your "nice guy" poker buddy has a history of writing some hateful shit. If you are familiar with his work and you still defend him then I suspect you have some serious issues to deal with.

  by TexasLiberal on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:03:58 PM PDT

•  Do you know Ben Stein?

  Because it would be as relevant as this. so fucking what? You're actually giving us the "You'd like to have a beer with Bush (no I wouldn't) line? What does it have to do with the racist, disingenuous, party-steeped, addled and twisted shit that the fuck writes?

  by Earl on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:06:48 PM PDT

•  Maybe if you stuck to poker and video games,

  your buddy Ben wouldn't be the worst person in the world (so long as you can wilfully ignore the harsh indictment of his character which is evidenced by his own vicious, racist, lying writing, e.g. every quote pulled from his work as Augustine).

  And even then, his videogaming devolves into bizarro political theory, as I diaried here regarding his theory of "Contra 3 Syndrome."  If a chickenhawk plays military videogames, does he earn an honorary flight suit?

  Seriously, I choose my friends based, in part, on their character.  I would not be proud to be friends with such a hateful bigot.

  by Slim Tyranny on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:08:51 PM PDT

•  Are you a bigot, too? n/t

  by megisi on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:12:51 PM PDT

•  ack

  some of the posters here are exactly what the diarist is talking about.

  and before anyone jumps on me i'm black and gay, so shush.

  by terrypinder on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:13:33 PM PDT

  •  Proud to be one of

    ones he's talking about. You can have you"Ack" back, as far as I'm concerned. I've explained myself in other comments.

    by Earl on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:22:07 PM PDT

  •  Thank you

    But sadly, pointing out hypocrisy doesn't score points here.

    by bam101 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:58:10 PM PDT

    •  There's no hypocracy to point out.

      The diarist claims to have very cordial, friendly, respectful conversations with his poker buddy who just happens to write this hateful, vitriolic blog on washingtonpost.com.

      And we're being equally vitriolic in our criticisms.

      No hypocracy since we're not invited to the poker game.

      by suzq on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:18:10 PM PDT

•  If Ben

  wouldn't write as if being a Democrat was something akin to treason then perhaps we would give him a chance.  My opinion of Ben has to do with what he has written, things like making statements that a majority of Americans are "red state" folks (when they aren't), stating that Americans "reject" the policies of Democrats (they don't, Americans did however reject Bush's Social Security idea, are rejecting the new medicare bill, and are rejecting our involvement in Iraq).

  If "Ben" was a bit more reasonable and posted thoughts that didn't come from GOP talking points maybe we would give him a chance.   As it is he is just another winger who has no original thought.

  by SanJoseLady on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:18:18 PM PDT

•  Fuck him

  He sits around here, playing poker while reservists twice his age are coming home limbless, while he pontificates about a war, when his only military training is watching Red Dawn?  Goddam, I just want to kick the crap out of that cowardly little piece of shit punk.

  by calipygian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:22:30 PM PDT

  •  And not only that

    but he has the fucking Gonads to sell crap that glorify Marine snipers when he wont enlist himself?  A real Marine sniper would jam a .50 cal sniper rifle so far up his ass, he would taste cleaning grease.

    by calipygian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:23:54 PM PDT

    •  Acaben

      you need to address views like the ones expressed above. If you feel the need to come to your "friend's" assistance, step up to the plate and take on these very salient arguments.

      by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:10:00 PM PDT

      •  What's to address?

        Calipygian holds a view I tend to agree with. I wish more yellow elephants and chickenhawks and fighting 101st keyboardists would step up and enlist.

        What I don't agree with are personal attacks on a friend. Criticize his ideas? Sure. I've been known to. Criticize something he wrote? Hell, there was a time when he defended himself against the box turtle line from the CONSERVATIVES at the poker game.

        My diary didn't say "hands off my friend." I didn't come to his assistance because I'm trying to protect him from criticism. My diary was about those who have nothing to add to the debate but childish insults and name calling, many of whom now seem to have turned their sights on me.

        by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:19:20 PM PDT

        •  You 'tend' to agree with

          Which parts of it do you not agree with, and why do you have to be hounded into taking on this very legitimate avenue of criticism. If childish insults and name calling offend you, then please describe why you haven't voiced your displeasure about those issues with your "friend," who seems to revel in precisely the rhetorical practices you claim to despise?

          by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:32:06 PM PDT

          •  Lemme Repeat for you, to see if that helps...

            Domenech and I don't agree on a lot of things, perhaps even most things. Some of what he's written in the past on his blog I disagree with vehemently. The politicians he's worked for I disagree with vehemently. The authors he works for I disagree with vehemently. Though we agree on very little politically, this diary isn't about our disagreement about ideas.

            by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:36:37 PM PDT

            •  Lemme point out

              you staggering level of cognitive dissonance. The diary is about the gap between his pubic persona and his private writings, some of them under the cover of anonymity, which one might argue represents the true nature of his unedited thought process.

              Stating that you "disagree about ideas" doesn't cut it. It's not like the argument is about finding common ground regarding wallpaper color. Your situation is not too far from the following hypothetical: Don't call my friend, who is a holocaust denier, mean names because he is a hell of a raconteur at the poker table and I have never yet known him to subject an infant to "shaken baby syndrome." And I'm almost not joking.

              By the way, the pissy way in which you call attention to having to "repeat" yourself, is tantamount to calling me stupid, which isn't a very high-toned thing to do now, is it. And if you respond by saying "you started it," I have some proverbs to quote you.

              by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:28:48 PM PDT

              •  Cognitive Dissonance

                Yah, baby!

                I mean, if you really don't like what Ben says and stands for, exactly why would you bother to "stand up" for him in the first place? I don't think anyone put a gun to his head to force him to write crap for the WaPo, did they?

                (As a matter of fact, it's more likely that they put a gun to WaPo's heads and made them pay Ben an ungodly sum of money for the crap he has thus far produced.)

                (Here's one last little parlour game for you: next time you're playing a friendly game of poker, glance over to see if he's bluffing. At the same time, remember that he thinks you're beliefs are treasonous, and that people you identify with are scum, and racism is wholesome and natural. But make sure you keep your poker face!)

                by thingamabob on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 03:44:36 PM PDT

                •  Directed at acaben, of course

                  My meaning ought to be clear, but I could have just been more straightforward to begin with, I suppose.

                  by thingamabob on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 03:46:59 PM PDT

            •  Sorry

              But your friend is an asshole.

              That Marine Sniper cup is beyond the fucking pale. He's not a serving or ex-Marine, where the fuck does he get the balls to sell such a thing. He didn't earn  that right. There are real people in Iraq risking their lives and he's making money off of them.

              Oh yeah, your boy's the worst kind of racist.

              So fuck him, and fuck you for defending him.

              by stevegilliard on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 05:10:22 PM PDT

              •  Great post on your blog BTW

                on the whole process on how to become a Marine sniper.  Kudos!

                by calipygian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 05:21:18 PM PDT

  •  WATB

    He really does epitomize the tough-talking white guy hiding under his bed, doesn't he? By saying he's a nice, likable guy in real life reinforces what a whiny-ass titty baby he really is. Put him in front of a keyboard and he unleashes putrescence and bile. Actually make eye contact and he turns into a timid creature. He should be serving our country in the armed forces if he believes in Bush and the war, he's prime fighting age. Instead he's willing to let others sacrifice for his comfortable life.

    by puppethead on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:29:15 PM PDT

    •  which means

      He's a poker playing PUSSY.  Just why hasn't your friend Ben enlisted, eh?  

      by fiddlingnero on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:31:52 PM PDT

      •  Classy.

        Really classy language.  

        by bam101 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:00:09 PM PDT

        •  Ok then,

          instead of the unclassy word "pussy", will yellow-bellied coward suffice?  Anyone of his age who is so gung-ho for war should have his, uh, gluteus maximus in fatigues with a gun on his back.  He's the kind of, uh, person, that Jello Biafra wrote the song "Holiday in Cambodia" for.  

          by fiddlingnero on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:13:37 PM PDT

    •  If he really WERE a Marine Sniper

      he wouldnt be selling the crap he does, and he would get pissed at people who wore crap like that without earning it.  But, since he's a whiney ass titty baby who is too cowardly to serve, he will never learn that lesson.

      by calipygian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:32:54 PM PDT

  •  He just wants to

    but he's not going to. It just feels good to say it.

    by Earl on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:30:43 PM PDT

•  If Ben wants to dish it,

  he'd better learn to take it.  That tends to be the rule of the game.

  by Hunter on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:27:15 PM PDT

  •  Stardom (or infamy?)

    I think I feel like a star now, my Kos idol has responded to a diary entry I made. :) Even if you disagree, it's still an honor to see you here, Hunter.

    by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:35:41 PM PDT

    •  Well

      Listen to him then.

      Your diary is ridiculous.

      I told the same thing to his good friend Trevino.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:38:22 PM PDT

    •  WHA!???!

      you "disagree" with this:

      If Ben wants to dish it, he'd better learn to take it.

      That's rich!!  So, by your standards, your friend is allowed to personally attack others, but he needs his friend to defend his sorry ass when it's returned in kind?

      I call major, grade-A, hi-test Bullshit

      worst diary of the year.

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:47:00 PM PDT

    •  and

      you may want to check with your buddy before you fight his fights for him.  I know I would feel like a supreme wuss if someone did this for to me.

      think about it.

      by AlyoshaKaramazov on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:48:27 PM PDT

      •  He is 24 years old, pro-war

        and is comfortably sitting at home rather than at the frontline, or even in the Green Zone in Baghdad.  Sounds like he is all right with people fighting his battles for him.

        by calipygian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:12:52 PM PDT

        •  Touche! (n/t)

          by Fabian on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:46:06 PM PDT

    •  Please

      that's a really disgraceful dodge. If this is what qualifies as social interaction for you, it's no wonder the poker games you play don't get more than skin deep. Save your lickspittle slavishness for right wing boards. They are programmed to respond to that shit.

      by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:13:13 PM PDT

•  In that case,

  tell your buddy that I think he's a fucking tool and a cowardly little bitch.

  by ThunderHawk13 on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:31:05 PM PDT

•  One more thing

  he's now a public person and, as such, he's going to be called all kinds of name. He, and you, better get used to it because there is nothing you can do about it. Even Sandra Day O'Connor (Ben is not even close to being anything like her) got called a c-u-n-t on these pages not long ago.

  by Truza on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:31:30 PM PDT

  •  The community rejected that.

    Quickly troll-rated, and rightly so.

    by jem6x on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:57:02 PM PDT

    •  And I agree with the troll-rate

      my point is he can't do anything about it. We (i.e. the community) can but not him :-)

      by Truza on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:07:41 PM PDT

      •  True --

        especially people with such a prickly and unpleasant prose persona as this guy have to know that mud will be slung at them if they take such a high-profile gig (and start using it as a platform to fling mud!).

        by jem6x on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:12:17 PM PDT

•  Believe it or not

  Stalin was said to have been "an absolute laugh-riot" at parties once the vodka started flowing. Too bad none of those millions he purged got to really know him, huh?

  But, please, look in the mirror--what kind of person accepts the "friendship" of someone he/she vehemently opposes on most issues? It's not unethical (depending on which issues you disagree on), but it's highly suspect.

  by thingamabob on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:34:56 PM PDT

•  quality of a person

  So you're buddies with this guy?

  Your "friend" deserves each and every attack on his family, character, intellect and beliefs that he gets, because that's what he's been spewing forth towards me, and people like me, for years.

  May I humbly suggest you find a better class of friend.  The people you choose to associate with are a reflection of what you are.

  by arbiter on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:36:55 PM PDT

•  Ridiculous

  And the tone of his comments about the Left?

  Seriously, you have to be kidding me.

  by Armando on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:37:15 PM PDT

  •  Good Point....

    Two wrongs do always make a right. I wasn't even homeschooled and learned that.  :)

    by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:38:09 PM PDT

    •  No seriously

      Ben and the Right have no room to complain.

      When he apologizes for his statements then we can talk.

      Now I have not written a word about his new gig, but this handwringing is absurd.

      You watch him go - he'll offend you many times over before it is done.

      So really come on.

      I happen to be good friends with his co-founders at Red State, Krempasky and revino, and I vouch for thier personal qualities. Indeed, they tryhard to stick to the facts.

      But I'll be damned if I get all offended when someone takes a shot at them, we choose to write on blogs. This is part of the territory.

      by Armando on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:47:49 PM PDT

      •  The Poker Game

        I know this is just inviting more critical comments, but the poker game is at the home of one of the two guys you mention as redstate founders...

        I'm not defending his words here. I'm not defending any of the stuff that has spewed forth from Ben's keyboard. I'm not defending those who write substantive comments or criticize things that he has said or believes.

        But I will not back down from arguing against the personal attacks and name calling that I called out in this diary. It's abhorrent behaviour whether it happens here at Daily Kos or whether the very person I'm defending against it has engaged in it himself.

        Hell, there are times when I've gotten so emotional that I've made personal attacks against others, and I think it's just as abhorrent when I do it.

        by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:56:52 PM PDT

        •  Oh, really?

          You're not defending his words? By asking us to consider your "friend" on personal terms, you are attempting to sway the way we regard his views, whether that's your intention or not. Because honestly, who gives a shit about how you or I or anyone comport themselves at a fucking poker game.

          The guy is a war apologist. That outrages people, especially those drawn to this board. If you don't get why that would lead to personal attacks, when the stakes are so unbelievably high, with violent death and chaos becoming a permanent backdrop in our lives, then you are either feigning ignorance, or you really haven't given your central thesis a lick of thought. In which case, with all due respect, you should delete this diary. It's an embarrasment to you.

          by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:19:17 PM PDT

        •  So he's the kind of guy

           Who has no problem with publicly trashing the guys he plays poker with?
           Let's look at the difference between you two.  You're both poker-playin' buddies, but, when the chips are down:
           1) You defend him
           2) He assaults you (or at least people like you)

           Do you sense a little imbalance here?  A little metaphorical imbalance maybe?  Don't you think this whole poker game could be a nice cozy fairy tale about the dysfunctional relationship between the Republican and Democratic parties?

          by WIds on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:23:09 PM PDT

        •  Your argument would carry more weight

          if you were not defending a prime abuser of your ethic.

          Turn the other cheek don't cut it for me.

          by Armando on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:26:05 PM PDT

        •  'Personal Attacks'

          You've got a point.

          I mean, he certainly wouldn't personally attack someone like, hmmmm, let me think, Coretta Scott King.  Nor would he personally attack half (and growing every day, it seems) the U.S. population for its rejection of Bush's war.

          No, all of his attacks principled objections are written without pandering to those who lap up invective or hyperpole as a stray dog would a found piece of roadkill.  And, it would seem, that since he uses only the highest rhetorical devices to make his points, those who would criticize him should likewise keep to the high-road, right?

          As for me, you see, I do take it as a "personal attack" when some blogging 24 year old tells me (42) that I don't know what I'm talking about politically, that I don't love my country, that I'm unpatriotic, that if I don't suck-up to the idiocies of Right Wingism I'm cracked.  That's about as personal an attack as can be made on me.  Calling me a mere "name" (poo-poo head, or worse) is no big deal.  Calling me a traitor (directly, or by innuendo) is fighting words.  This brat needs to understand that.  Perhaps you could help him.

          BenGoshi
          __________________________________________________

          by BenGoshi on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 02:19:45 PM PDT

        •  Such as what?

          If you think people were so out of line, you need to be more specific as to what you think is out of line.

          Why is it OK for him to launch personal polemics, and for us not to hit back? Would you have advised Muhammed Ali not to fight against Sonny Liston?

          by Eternal Hope on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 09:59:31 PM PDT

•  Personal attacks

  Is calling Coretta Scott King a communist on the day of her funeral a personal attack? I just want to know?

  by flounder on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:40:40 PM PDT

•  You mean

  Ben- the intolerant big mouth bigot who called Coretta a commie?(How's it feel aBen to be prejudged and found wanting? :)) From what I know OF him, I wouldn't care to know him. I'd say that anyone who calls a revered public figure a commie deserves the title "smarmy dickhead". That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. Quite frankly I hope he gets clobbered at the WaPo- a little justice to see a overt bigot have to deal with prejudice firsthand.

  by cwaltz on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 12:45:35 PM PDT

•  Nice fella? maybe.

  Idiot? Yes.

  History's Greatest Monster By: Augustine
  Ladies and Gentlemen, Jimmy Carter.

  by Mike S on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:03:06 PM PDT

  •  And to be clear,

    I have a lot of conservative friends. Most of whom I consider some of the best people I know.

    But every one of them worked for what they have. They have real world experiance and their mom didn't wipe their butts for the first 18 years of their lives. Their Daddy didn't get them an appointment to their job. None of them slandar people who disagree with them.

    I have to laugh when I hear some 24 year old kid who has lived a completely sheltered life attempt to tell me that the ideas mommy pumped into his head are right for the country. Tell the little boy to come see me after he spends months eating top ramin  every day so he can pay his rent.

    This punk is nothing but your typical college Republican.

    by Mike S on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:14:02 PM PDT

•  So lemme see

  that fact that you've never suffered a slight from him while playing on the other side of the poker table, passing pleasantries, should lead the rest of us to ease up on his offensive views?

  What if it turns up that some other member of the poker club embezzled money? Or date raped someone? Or was giving out blow jobs at the truck stop on the way home? Would any of that information alter your view, or would you be like the neighbors of white collar criminals muttering "such a nice man" as they cart Mr. Johnson, the embezzler, off in handcuffs?

  This diary would have had value if you had written it from the standpoint of how your acquaintance's public persona diverged from your understanding of his private persona. Even then, there's no real evidence you have been exposed to his private persona, everybody is affable at the poker table with a few beers in them, following an unspoken social contract to "keep it light." I don't suppose any of us assumed that Ben shows up at the poker table yammering on about that commie, Coretta Scott King. It's the fact that he makes such outrageous, divisive, scurrilous claims while protected by anonymity that suggests he is not everything he professes to be.

  He's got some issues, he is an awful writer, an awful arguer, and his Dad is up to his neck in Abramoff dealings. He should be fighting his own battles, and your take on the issue reflects poorly on you. The enabler is just as toxic as the addict, from where I sit. You seem to be a classic enabler.

  by mrblifil on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:08:12 PM PDT

  •  An attempt...

    I'm not sure you can read and comprehend, but I'm going to try this anyway.

    Go back and read the diary. The point wasn't that you should ease up when criticizing my friend's beliefs, writing, ideas, opinions or thoughts.

    The point was that attacking his mother and calling him a smarmy dickhead without engaging in substantive debate about his views and opinions is devoid of any intellectual value at all and only subtracts from the debate.

    by acaben on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:27:10 PM PDT

    •  Smarmy dickhead

      I'm gonna assume you can read and comprehend. The basis for us calling him and believing him a smarmy dickhead is because of his ideas , opinions and thoughts, and writings.

      If he can call Coretta a commie for her ideas, thoughts, writings and opinions, then he can be called a "smarmy dickhead" for his (ain't it great to live in a country where bigots get equal time?) I do draw the line at attacking his mother. Why attack her? There's so much material to dislike this guy for, why even bother wasting my breath on his lineage.

      As for debate, I tend to engage in debate with those that act like they wish to engage in a serious debate. It appears to me what Ben likes to do is namecall. Guess what? I can do that too.

      by cwaltz on Wed Mar 22, 2006 at 01:41:35 PM PDT

    •  Careful

      I'm not sure you can read and comprehend, but I'm going to try this anyway.

      Sounds like you're dabbling in some of that ad hominem you claim to despise.

      You can't decry the use of "smarmy dickhead" (which is apt, I find)