What's your plan B?

I've been a life-long Dem, but they are losing me.   But I was thinking...what's my plan B.  Who would I support?  The Green candidate?  Ralph Nader?  I remember giving some of my friends a hard time in 2000 for voting for Nader.  I still feel that Gore would have won by a greater margin had Nader dropped out.  But now, I'm feeling that the Dems will never change unless they feel the sting of total abandonment by the liberal wing of the party, and maybe not even then.  Hillary does not stand a chance, and even if she did, I do not know that I can vote for someone who is so obviously moving to the right (support of flag burning amendment, failure to join in censure resolution, her position on Iraq, etc).  It may just be politics as usual, but integrity must begin to matter at some point.  Russ Feingold and the new Al Gore understand this and I think the 2008 campaign should be run on competency and integrity as values that have been abandoned by both parties, by the Rethugs much more so than the Dems.  But still, what is everyone's plan B if the Dems do not recognize us and we continue to be disenfranchised?

•  Not yet.

  I cant even contemplate a Plan B until the current crop of GOP horrorshow pols are gone. Its straight ticket D until that point. The urgency of ridding this country of the GOP FAR overrides my disatisfaction with Dems.

  by ablington on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:26:11 PM PDT

  •  Yep. What Ablington said.

    n/t

    by wozzle on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:27:13 PM PDT

•  You won't need one. n/t

  by boran2 on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:27:05 PM PDT

•  Why do people think this theory makes sense?

  I hear claims like this all the time, and I just don't understood the theory that says if progressive Democrats engineer Democratic losses by defecting to third-parties, the Democrats will all become more progressive.  It's not going to happen.  Continued Republican wins would only convince Democratic politicians that they need to move to the right to gain electibility.  So, it's doubly counter-productive.  You both elect Republicans and guarantee that Democrats don't become more progressive.  

  by ortcutt on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:35:44 PM PDT

•  The Dems aren't doing the job

  My Democratic congressman was one of 44 Democrats who recently voted with the Bush administration on renewal of the USA PATRIOT Act.  I'm just about terminally discouraged.  We have no opposition party in this country.

  by rmwarnick on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:38:59 PM PDT

•  Plan B

  Plan A: Vote Dem, work on behalf of Democratic candidates, work on broader impact on society outside of partisan politics
  Plan B: Work harder, Vote Dem even if I have to hold my nose when voting. Because there IS no third party alternative in this system, in this climate.  

  by Hollywood Liberal on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:39:09 PM PDT

•  Musings

  This issue has come up for me several times.  I think of myself as pragmatic, but I also think that Democratic campaign staffs are pragmatic too.  They figure that specific stands will make their candidates lose a certain number of votes and win a certain number of others.  So if the loss of my vote has been determined to be acceptable to them, should anyone pounce on me for deciding to withhold it?  If their calculations are wrong, should I bear the responsibility of that?

  An exception is a principled stance that is known to be unpopular but is held out of a genuine belief that it's for the benefit of the country.  In these cases, I can vote against my positions out of admiration for the candidate's commitment or out of deference to his/her better judgment.  But I don't include in this category things like selecting Lieberman as a running mate or failing to support the censure resolution.  At least, a convincing case hasn't yet been made.  And while I don't generally support single-issue voting, sometimes stands on issues are indicative of a larger approach to issues that I find problematic.  Also, is the prospect of a life without marriage only a single-issue to a homosexual person, or the prospect of nine months of unwanted pregnancy to a woman?  Are these people supposed to help candidates who deny them what they see as a fundamental right get into office to legislate against their interests?  That's asking a bit much.

  I've seen quite a bit of aggressive arguments on this site about how it's never right to not vote Democrat in a general election.  I'd be interested in a discussion, too.

  by think blue on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:47:15 PM PDT

  •  depends on which

    election we're talking about, too. For very local elections, it seems less urgent for me, especially living in New York State, to stick to party loyalty. Federal elections......major deal considering the climate.  I actually resent my town dem club for assuming that I would support them on all local issues just because they're the Dem club and I'm a Democrat with lots of activist experience. That REALLY pissed me off and I decided not to get involved with them because of it.  Party lines don't tell me how to vote on whether to re-do the traffic circle in town, or about smart growth, etc. The club doesn't work on federal stuff that much, at least not so far.

    by Hollywood Liberal on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:06:23 PM PDT

•  I think it's always better to work to change

  .. things where you already are, than try to move to a magical place where everyone already agrees with you.

  You'll always find some fault with the new place, and you aren't learning the skills you'll need to change the problems.

  by cathy b on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:48:28 PM PDT

•  my current mantra

  is if we don't stick together, it will all get worse. IMHO we have to get farther away from the center, and return to Our Values .

  by OneCrankyDom on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:48:46 PM PDT

•  They are human ...you shouldn't leave b/c we need

  to have an opposition party.  Once we have that, the whole dynamic will be different.

  by TalkieToaster on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 12:59:17 PM PDT

•  Emigration nt

  by tiponeill on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:33:39 PM PDT

  •  ha ha

    I assume you're joking.

    But on a serious note, I did look into this option for a short while after the 2004 elections. Except for people who have substantial amounts of money to invest in small businesses (more than U.S. $500,000), there aren't a lot of options for permanently re-locating out of the states.

    Canada will take most Americans with college degrees and work experience (though it can still take quite a bit of paperwork to get work authorization), and New Zealand will take Americans who are health care providers and IT/computer experts. Other than that, though, I'm not aware a lot of first-world countries that are eager to embrace American nationals.

    by pine on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:15:01 PM PDT

•  The problem

  Is that most democrats are free-thinking, independently minded people, who see the party as the lesser of two evils...

  While we need to band together to fight the sheepish right, I don't know if a centrist democratic party makes anyone's mouth water.

  I'd like to see the formation of a new "party" that is really just a conglomeration of independents, backing their own ideas and people in local districts. Though, we could all come together for senatorial and presidential races...

  by notaterroristiswear on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:46:52 PM PDT

•  Plan B...

  ...is the name of my new band, after the old band [Honky Dreads] outstayed their welcome...

  §;o)

  by Joy Busey on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 01:57:31 PM PDT

•  I have no Plan B

  My plan A is to stay involved with the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, to support candidate who I think will stay true to progressive issues, and to try to convince the "establishment" types to come over to our side.

  I have no plan B. And I have no plans to develop a Plan B, unless the Democrats go off a rightward cliff in 2008 by nominating Joementum or Zig Zag Zell (which won't happen).

  I do not understand people who argue that there are no substantive differences between Republicans and Democrats. There are major substantive differences in terms of public policy and in general attitudes towards racial minorities, gays and lesbians, and diverse religious beliefs. The Democratic Party establishment in Washington is far from perfect, but I will gladly embrace them any day over the cryptofascist, bigoted economic elites who dominate the Republican Party.

  by pine on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:10:04 PM PDT

•  If Hillary gets nominated

  I will spend zero time or dollars on her campaign and all of it on downticket candidates. If I can't find downticket candidates, I'll spend my time on causes I believe in.

  Will I vote for Hillary? I don't know. I have until November 7, 2008, to decide whether to do so or write someone's name in.

  I've said it a number of times, but I think the real renaissance of the Democratic Party will begin the day Hillary is off the presidential chessboard. At long last, we will enter the post-Clinton era.

  by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Thu Mar 23, 2006 at 02:55:22 PM PDT