Iraq, Afghanistan, and My Mother (with unrelated poll)

Ah, holidays with family.  There's nothing quite like it, as we all know.  When mine gets together, there are always a few uncomfortable moments of silence when we realize that some of us are very, very far apart politically.  (Case in point: I was offered a nice fresh cup of coffee in a Focus on the Family logoed mug.)

The big surprise, however, was a throwaway line from my own mother is response to someone else's complaint about the state of war in Iraq.  Her answer, at first, seemed like an almost-harmless repetition of a common talking point: "well, I'd rather be fighting them over there".

My first reaction was to brush off her statement as just a recitation of the meme.  But then I asked the question: "who?"  WHO would you rather be fighting over there?  I assume you mean "the terrorists", but they're in Afghanistan, not Iraq.  * *  Remember, the terrorists who were behind the attacks on September 11, 2001.  The trained in Afghanistan, not Iraq.  * *  I mean, they weren't FROM Afghanistan, of course; they were Saudi.  They just trained in Afghanistan.  * *  And of course, you can't attack the Saudis because they like us [sic] and they send us oil.  So we went in to Afghanistan to root out the terrorists.  Not Iraq; they had nothing to do with terrorism, and hadn't done anything to us.  Remember?  * *

Now, I have a great deal of respect for my mother; she's a young woman, barely old enough to have a 35-year-old son like me.  She's very sharp, and keeps up reasonably well with current events.  But at every point I marked with the double-asterisk, she stopped in her tracks.  I got the same facial reaction each time.  It looked for a moment like she was surprised, but then there was a look of distant recognition, as if this reality was something that she knew was factually correct, but hadn't really thought about for so long that its opposite had become her working reality.

My question to the Kos community is this:  does the average mom / average joe "get it"?  Is the idea that we're somehow beating back "the terrorists" by fighting in Iraq still widespread?  Is that look - that "oh yeah, that IS how it happened - really lurking as close to the surface of the national consciousness as it was in our family's?    

•  A couple of months

  ago I was talking on the phone with my father-in-law, a life time republican.  We were complaining about the high utility bills and cost of gas.  I said, "well, what do you expect when you elect the energy lobby's candidate for president?"  I got that same puzzled silence for a few moments...then he asked "Are they really?"  I replied that the Bush family has long been in the oil business and that it was largely energy execs who banded together to run GW back in 2000.  He claimed he had no idea!  You could tell he was thinking about it, though...

  by tjb22 on Mon May 15, 2006 at 09:42:00 PM PDT

•  The most popular song in the Central Valley last

  year was a cheesy country western (more country than western) song called "Did You Forget?" or something to that effect.  It was tackier than "Okie from Muscogee."  

  The question was aimed at those who don't support the war in Iraq, and the full question was basically did you forget "when America was attacked" etc. etc.  I'll look for a link.

  Therefore, the war's reason for being is to defend the USA from the perpetrators of 9/11 and their ilk.  It was an ANTHEM for a huge percentage of the population there.

  Explain that to me, someone.

  by Boadicaea on Mon May 15, 2006 at 09:47:11 PM PDT

  •  They think all

    foreigners are the same.  Iraqi, Saudi, Egyptian, Pakistani, etc...all the same.  Much like Osama has been able to convince poor Muslims that all Westerners are the same.  People who lead insulated lives will often believe this.

    by tjb22 on Mon May 15, 2006 at 09:49:43 PM PDT

    •  I'm sorry--I was being facetious. It's a good

      antidote for the kind of raging frustration I feel when, as happens often, I run into someone breathtakingly ill-informed and narrow-minded--or am sideswiped (which has happened)--or am asked a stupid, challenging question by someone with their head, neck, and chest buried in the sand.  

      Of course, that means that they are talking out their asses.  And there are thousands of them out there.  They are in my family, on airplanes with me, write newspaper columns, and vote for George W.  

      They don't WANT to know, because then they have a responsibiity.  An obscene number of people in this country want to turn it all over to an authority figure and never have to think past themselves.

      This was a rant.  Sorry for that, too.

      by Boadicaea on Mon May 15, 2006 at 10:07:01 PM PDT

      •  No need to be sorry.

        It is funny, but its also sad and scarey because its true...they think there is this vast group of "thems" out there...you know the "thems" that aren't one of the "us's".  Its a lot easier to think that way.

        by tjb22 on Mon May 15, 2006 at 10:08:48 PM PDT

    •  Iraqi, Saudi, Egyptian....,

      Mexicans, that why we gotta stop'em at the border. Send out the Nat'l Guard, if there are any left.

      by irate on Mon May 15, 2006 at 11:31:48 PM PDT

•  * *

  love it...

  oh my... * *

  ouch

  by MediaFreeze on Mon May 15, 2006 at 10:25:24 PM PDT

•  This ignorant lumping together of all brown

  foreigners into one putatively evil pack makes me so angry that I get spots before my eyes.  Most of these Neanderthals have never met one, never seen one, never had any contact with one. Grrr!  Anyway, as one who has lived in the Middle East for the better part of thirty years -- Iran, Saudi Arabia, Oman -- I could teach these dimwits a thing or two.  This really has me going right now because of something that happened yesterday.

  I teach at a university; my students are all incoming freshmen who are stuck with the onerous task of learning English that is sufficient to enable them to survive in English language lectures -- probably 70% of all courses here are taught in English.  Anyway, yesterday, which was the last day of class before final exams, both of my groups decided to have a party in our classrooms. Bear in mind, by the way, that they had never been in a co-ed classroom  before entering the university.

  Imagine this scene:  eight 18/19 year old boys sitting together alongside one wall and nine girls of a similar age sitting along the wall opposite.   The girls are all wearing black abayas, the boys white dishdashas with the trademark embroidered Omani caps.  They organize quizzes -- and girls actually asked boys questions and vice-versa, which was a first in my long experience! -- they read or recite poetry, both in English and Arabic, that they've written themselves, and they haul out tons of food, with the boys preparing the table and setting it all out.

  The truly amazing thing, however, was when one of the boys stood up and announced that he wanted to read a poem, first in Arabic, and then another, shorter one, to us in English.  These were in praise of a colleague and me, who had shared the class. Then, after he had read the English poem, the whole group of them sang it to us.  Well, I may be 60 and damned cynical, but I was nearly moved to tears by the gesture.  I cannot in the wildest flights of my imagination conceive of this happening in the US -- or anywhere else in the West, for that matter.  This speaks volumes for the culture, I think.  These kids wouldn't do this if they had not been taught very strong human values by their families.  They respect their elders and themselves.  

  You see it in other situations as well.  Let's say you're on a highway, far from anywhere, and you have car trouble.  Almost without question, the next car to come along will stop to assist.  You go out hiking in the mountains and come upon a small village.  Almost inevitably you're invited into someone's house for tea. This innate thoughtfulness of other people is the norm in this part of the world.  And these people are supposed to be evil??? I don't think so!!!!

  by GulfExpat on Mon May 15, 2006 at 11:11:12 PM PDT