Daily Kos

Joe Lieberman & the Hostile Takeover of "Centrism"

Tue May 30, 2006 at 07:56:29 AM PDT

In my new book Hostile Takeover, I spend a good deal of time showing how ultra-conservative right-wingers have hijacked the terms "centrist" and "mainstream" and disconnected them from what's actually "centrist" and "mainstream" among the public. This is no small matter (and a topic I have focused on before) - it is a hugely important and powerful linguistic weapon deviously employed by the most destructive forces. That's right - today in Washington, positions that are way to the right of where the American public stands are regularly called "centrist" or "mainstream." That's no accident - it is a deliberate strategy employed by Big Money interests that run the Establishment to effectively marginalize the vast majority of the population from its own political debate and political system. It is, in short, a hostile takeover not just of our government, but of political discourse itself.

How this semantic strategy legitimates right-wing positions and politicians can best be seen in looking at Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), a man incessantly billed by the Washington media - and himself - as a "centrist."

In fact, Lieberman's name has become so synonymous with Washington's propagandistic definition of "centrism" that some of the most insulated Establishment spokespeople are using the term in a pathetic attempt to defend him from grassroots primary challenger Ned Lamont (D).

As just one example, take Marshall Wittman. This ultra-right-wing former Christian Coalition official is now employed at the Democratic Leadership Council, and purports to speak for Democrats. He is one of the most odious icons of Washington's bought-off bipartisan Establishment - and has made a name for himself peddling right-wing talking points, narratives and storylines wholly at odds with actual facts. Last week was no exception. He told the Los Angeles Times that the Connecticut primary "is a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party" because "it will have repercussions for the 2008 presidential campaign and whether centrists will feel comfortable within the Democratic Party."

Wittman, a staunch Lieberman shill, is actually correct, though inadvertently. He's right - this is "a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party" and it will indicate "whether centrists will feel comfortable within the Democratic Party." But the actual data shows that the centrist is not Lieberman, as Wittman purports, but those opposing Lieberman. And if Lieberman wins the primary, it could mean that centrists will not feel comfortable in the party, because the actual data shows Lieberman is the out-of-the-mainstream arch-right-winger, and the movement that is challenging him represents the real center.

This is not theoretical rhetoric or cocktail party chatter, as Wittman and his ilk in the pundit class have become specialists in peddling. This is cold, hard fact, backed up by cold, hard facts (you remember - those things so looked down upon inside the Beltway).  On almost every major issue, the data shows that Lieberman is far to the right of the "center" or "mainstream" of American public opinion.

Take the Iraq War. Lieberman continues to unflinchingly support the stay-the-course policy of the Bush administration, to the point where he attacks those who even raise questions about the administration's Iraq policy as "undermin[ing] the president's credibility at our nation's peril." His out-of-the-mainstream position comes at a time when every major national poll shows roughly two thirds of Americans oppose the war and want a change in policy. But it gets worse. Lieberman has long claimed that because of the Iraq War, "the world is safer, America is safer." Again, CNN/USA Today polls asked this very question, and they have consistently shown (here and here) that the majority of Americans believe that the Iraq War has made America less safe. In sum, the cold, hard data shows that despite the rhetoric, Joe Lieberman is on the fringe extreme, while those like Ned Lamont who have criticized his position and who want a change in policy are the real centrists.

How about Social Security? Though Lieberman now desperately claims he's against privatizing Social Security, he was one of the earliest and most outspoken Senators giving credence to the concept - credence that was critical in helping legitimate the concept. As far back as 2000, the New York Times reported that Lieberman was publicly suggesting "that he could support allowing workers to invest a portion of their payroll taxes in the private markets." Two 2002 polls - one from the Los Angeles Times and another from NBC News - both found a strong 55 percent of the public opposed the concept. After the President in 2005 put the full weight of the White House behind selling the concept in the most favorable terms possible, those numbers actually got worse. A CNN/USA Today poll that year found that "opposition rose to 59 percent." So, on yet another issue, the cold, hard data shows Lieberman was well outside the "center," those who criticized him for his position were representing the real center - and yet the out-of-touch Washington chattering classes still billed him as a "centrist" on the issue.

On health care, Lieberman was labeled a "centrist" by the Washington elite when he ran for President in 2004 for saying things like, "I am not willing to raise taxes to pay for health insurance." He said this the same year that, as polling expert Ruy Teixeira notes, major nationwide polls showed the public supports "by 67 percent to 26 percent, the U.S. government guaranteeing 'health insurance for all citizens,' even if that meant repealing most of 'recent tax cuts.'" In fact, "the majority was scarcely diminished (67 percent to 29 percent) by referring not to repealing tax cuts but more directly to 'raising taxes.'" Similarly, "Greenberg Quinlan Rosner/Public Opinion Strategies found, in January 2004, a 69 percent to 28 percent majority saying that they would be willing to pay more per year in federal taxes to assure every American citizen received health care coverage." Again, the cold, hard data shows Lieberman is well outside the "center" on health care - while those who criticize him for these kinds of positions represent the actual center.

This pattern shows up even in the specifics of lower-profile issues. On prescription drugs, the Washington Post reported in 2000 that "Lieberman said he was opposed to price controls on drugs." That was the same year Lieberman, a recipeint of more than $400,000 in drug industry cash, voted against bipartisan legislation to reinstate the law that forces drug companies to offer drugs developed at taxpayer expense at a "fair and reasonable price" - instead of allowing them to charge Americans the highest prices in the world for those drugs. It was also the same year the Washington Post billed Lieberman a "centrist" for his work "lobb[ying] hard for pharmaceutical companies on issues [like extending] research and development tax credits."

Yet, polls show that a strong majority of the public supports drug price controls, and doesn't buy the argument that the already-wealthy drug industry needs federal handouts for R&D. Specifically, a 2004 Harris Poll found "60 percent to 35 percent majority to favor federal government price controls." In 2005, the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation noted that polls showed "almost two-thirds of the public say there should be more government regulation of prescription drug prices, and 70% of these people continue to support more regulation of prices even it leads to less research and development of new drugs." Kaiser also noted that "Most of the public do not believe that research and development drive the cost of prescription drugs, instead three-quarters  say drug company profit margins or marketing costs are the largest contributors to the price of prescription drugs and eight in ten say that drug costs are not justified because companies charge more for medications than necessary." Yet again, the data shows Lieberman's position has been way outside the "center" - while his critics have been representing the real center.

How about corporate-written trade deals? Lieberman remains one of the most rock-solid supporters of pacts like NAFTA, WTO and China PNTR that were stripped of labor/wage/human rights/environmental protections and thus undermined American jobs, wages, and benefits. He has attacked as - gasp! - "protectionist" anyone (even fellow Democrats) raising any questions about these trade deals. For this, Washington pundits fall all over themselves to call him a courageous "centrist."

Yet, polls consistently show that the centrist position is one that supports pushing for a serious change of these trade policies. To the shock and dismay of the bipartisan Washington Establishment that pushes these sellout trade deals, polls continue to show that a majority of Americans have long wanted this trade policy reformed. For instance, as I have previously pointed out, a July 2005 PIPA poll found 56 percent of Americans said they are "not satisfied with the way the US government is dealing with the effects of trade on American jobs, the poor in other countries and the environment" while 90 percent of Americans want trade deals to include strong labor protections and 93% want strong environmental protections - protections deliberately removed from the trade deals Lieberman champions. Similarly, a January 2004 PIPA/University of Maryland poll found that "a majority [of the American public] is critical of US government trade policy." USA Today reported in 2004 that even high-income Americans "have lost much of their enthusiasm for free trade." A March 2003 EPIC-MRA poll found just 21% of Americans said they wanted to "continue the NAFTA agreement." A 2002 poll by Investors Business Daily and the Christian Science Monitor found an overwhelming 61% of Americans "think U.S. trade policy should have restrictions on imported foreign goods to protect American jobs." And a 1999 poll done on the five-year anniversary of the North American trade deal was even more telling: Only 24 percent of Americans said they wanted to "continue the NAFTA agreement."

Again, Lieberman's trade position is cited as proof of his "centrism" when in fact the actual data shows his position is on the fringes of American public opinion.

The list goes on and on. Lieberman is called a "centrist" for reflexively voting for bigger and bigger Pentagon budgets. Yet, major national polls show the "centrist" position among the vast majority of the public is one that supports "deep cuts in defense spending, a significant reallocation toward deficit reduction, and increases in spending on education, job training, reducing reliance on oil, and veterans." Lieberman is called a "centrist" when he publicly brags about "co-sponsor[ing] the capital gains tax cut which finally passed in 1997." Yet, the same year he passed that tax cut for the wealthy, national polls showed that just 10 percent of Americans thought such a policy should be a priority for Congress. The dishonest labeling never seems to stop.

What can we learn from all of this? New York Times columnist Paul Krugman says we can see that in today's Washington "A Democrat is considered centrist to the extent that he does what Mr. Lieberman does: lends his support to Republican talking points, even if those talking points don't correspond at all to what most of the public wants or believes." Krugman is right - but as I document in my new book Hostile Takeover it goes even deeper. Washington's definition of "centrism" is not just about promoting those who capitulate to Republicans, but more broadly, those who genuflect to the Establishment and support the hostile takeover of our government.

No matter how far out on the fringe of public opinion you may be, you are billed as a "centrist, a "moderate" or "in the mainstream" in our nation's capital if you serve as a mouthpiece for powerful interests who bathe politicians in cash,  lend your support to these interests' pet causes, perpetuate their dishonest agendas, and keep telling the public that the Establishment's goals are the public's goals - even when polls clearly shows they are not. This paradigm is everywhere. Lieberman keeps getting fawned over as a "moderate"; out-of-touch, war-mongering Beltway pundits are being lauded as supposedly tough "moderates"; and corporate-funded think tanks pushing extremist economic and foreign policy agendas are applauded by pundits as "moderate" saviors. The propaganda is ubiquitous - and it goes the other way, too.

That's right, in Washington, you are labeled "liberal," "extremist" or "outside the mainstream" if you actually challenge power, debunk dishonest agendas with facts, and remind the public that the Beltway is deliberately ignoring what the vast majority of Americans want from their government. Moveon still gets slandered as supposedly out of the mainstream for its opposition to the war - even though polls show the public is just as vehemently opposed to the war. The netroots is constantly harangued by Beltway pundits as ultra "liberal" - even though the positions it supports in trying to get the Democratic Party to actually stand up for ordinary citizens is right in the center of public opinion data.

Washington, in short, deliberately tries to marginalize forces of change by slandering those forces as outside the "center." That propaganda system, not surprisingly, selects for people who refuse to challenge power. This explains why we have so many unspectacular, mealy-mouthed, power-fearing politicians on both sides of the aisle in Congress (and also why there are more outspoken voices in statehouses where this propaganda system is less pronounced). But it also explains why there is so much anger at Washington brewing throughout the country. After so many years of Washington lying to people about what the "center" supposedly is, Americans are waking up. As a 2005 poll by the Feldman Group showed that a whopping 72 percent of Americans now "believe that elected officials in Washington do not see the nation's problems and opportunities in the same way they do."

That anger represents electoral opportunity for the political candidates like Ned Lamont and others who actually look at the data, reject the Beltway's B.S. and stand up for ordinary citizens. To be sure, doing that takes guts. Big Money interests have made an art out of eviscerating those who challenge them, and every pundit on the cocktail party circuit from Joe Klein to Tom Friedman to David Brooks has shown their eagerness to dishonestly attack populists that challenge the Establishment. But rest assured that despite all of this desperate hot air, the cold, hard data shows the public is ready to reward the real centrists - the people who have the guts to stand down the elitsts on the fringe and stand with the vast majority of America in the real mainstream center. That's the place that supports political leaders who dare to fight back against the hostile takeover.

Tags: centrism, Joe Lieberman, Ned Lamont, hostile takeover, Recommended (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 154 comments

  •  Nice post (15+ / 0-)

    It's ridiculous that those in power are far to the right of the American public on almost every major issue and yet they somehow get away with calling themselves "mainstream."

    I think an appropriate response (besides debunking their wild claims, as you have done) is mockery.  Whenever a progressive is on a TV or radio show opposite a right winger and the winger claims to be "mainstream" or "centrist," the progressive should start laughing.

    •  'The Global Class War' by Jeff Faux (27+ / 0-)

      Mr. Faux explains how the bi-partisan elites are running the world to enrich their bank accounts, while the rest of us are left out.

      Why are so many Mexicans out of work?  Because Ross Perot was only half right, the "GIANT SUCKING Sound" of jobs headed to Mexico did not last long, they soon went to China, where the wages are $.25 per hour instead of the grand salary of $.80 per hour that the Mexicans were getting. Meantime Archer Daniels Midland has full access to Mexican markets- tossing the small farmers off their land.

      Lieberman and others of his ilk have been cheerleaders and enablers of these and other anti-worker policies.  Look at how the Bushies and their allies want to "fix" the immigration policy- by letting in "guest serfs" who will have no voting rights and just one word from their lords will send them packing.  Every rich crony capitalist's dream- a compliant and cowed work force.

      The religious wingers have allied themselves with their Bushie rich masters to hijack this country.  

      It is time to TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!  That message from Howard Dean was so powerful that DINO Lieberman joined with his Bush cronies to beat him down.

      •  Exactly, (0+ / 0-)

        as I read this diary I kept wondering why Dean was never mentioned, as he is a prime example of this. Do you know who he had fights with all the time as governor? Liberals. He won all the time because he was supported by "centerists" and republicans.

  •  What is a truly 'moderate' platform? (5+ / 0-)

    Granted, what's called 'centrist' and 'moderate' is neither: but what actually is this rare beast?

    I want someone to quote me in their sig line - Trix

    by GussieFN on Tue May 30, 2006 at 07:58:50 AM PDT

    •  Moderation DC style. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      laurak, GayHillbilly, slatsg

      Republicans call for 5 year olds to go back in the fields to pick crops, and into the factories to start back looming. Democrats say no way. Lieberman says that we should wait until they are 7 to put them to work. He is now a moderate.

      It's that simple. The Republicans love this crap. It means they push their proposals further, and wait for Lieberman types to meet them "half way".

      Every time Lieberman, or people like Mary Landrieu give in to the republicans, the line keeps going even further. I wonder if they even notice that this "middle" is now what would have been radical right just a generation ago.

      Completely waste your time at NewPairODimes Now with baby pictures.

      by trifecta on Tue May 30, 2006 at 04:57:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Lieberman's more of a neo-con with no (10+ / 0-)

    loyalty to the Democratic party and therefore, no willingness to fight for what he believes in by voting against cloture, than the ultimate "right-leaning centrist" in a solid blue state.  For a right-leaning centrist in a solid blue state that in terms of being beholden to non-Military Industrial Complex corporate interests, puts Joe Lieberman to shame, you have to take a look at Tom Carper of Delaware.

    But nobody does take a look at him, since he's quiet.

    •  does Carper have a primary (0+ / 0-)

      or is he not up for election this year?

    •  loyalty (5+ / 0-)

      The lack of loyalty, the smarminess, the lact of principles and the apparent opportunism of Lieberman is what gives real moderates and centrists a bad name. He's made it a dirty word with the help of Wittman and the like.

      This post makes me want to read the book even more. This is one of my biggest pet peeves.

      •  they make it seem like moderates (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        GayHillbilly, Buffalo Girl
        can not have guiding principles, and that pisses me off. I consider myself for the most part a moderate- things mentioned here- trade agreements for example, I am not against them so long as precautions to protect against the race to the bottom are set forth. Instead, that principled position under present definitions of moderate/centrist makes me an "extremist" for saying hey let's really make a fair trade agreement where both sides come out better. On military issues- and the use of force- I actually still subscribe tothe basic ideas set forth by Powell back before he became a shell of what he is now. You don't use military force unless you ahve to, and then with such overwhelming force that you get the job done fast and effectively. Now that places me outside of what is considered centrist and mainstream. It goes on and on.
          •  the only thing radicalized about my politics (0+ / 0-)

            is that I believe that it will take a drastic political quake to bring back the left of center to where  it should be now. I think part of the reason we are seeing such right extremes is that there are no checks on it. So that the crazy of the crazy right wing nut case like Dobson thinks he "reps" the American people and more specifically evangelicals when in fact he reps a very particular brand of evangelicals on the far right. I believe that the only way to have a strong middle is to have a strong left that matches the right so that people can see the choices that they have and make them without the present rightward manipulation. A true moderate is the only reality based advocate because they believe that facts trump idealogy whether it be from the left, a threat we dont have in the US, or right (the present real threat).  

          •  Clinton (0+ / 0-)

            ps, one of the things about clinton- I actually think  he was an okay president, but one of my problems with his leadership of the Party was that he didn't address this- and the reason why he couldn't is a flawed political strategy that things of the short term at the expense of the long term (that strategy is triangulation and that  is the principle fear I have of the present crop of centrists- that they will continue to provide a weak left of center response to a powerful right minority, and, as a result, continuing to allow the perceptions that Sirota discusses)

    •  Lieberman (13+ / 0-)

      What pisses a lot of Democrats here (and inside the beltway) off about him is that he habitually disses his own party and gives cover to Bush in front of the media.  Look, if you are going to be a "centrist", that's one thing, but please don't chase the cameras like you're Chuck Schumer or Joe Biden.

      Compare, for instance, Zell Miller with Ben Nelson, the two most conservative Democrats (I apply that term loosely in reference to Miller) to serve in the Senate during the Bush Administration.  Miller is persona non grata throughout the Democratic party, but Nelson gets almost no opposition, even here, because we understand that he's the best we can do in Nebraska.  That's because Miller constantly took shots on TV, radio and in the papers at other Democrats including our presidential nominee, whereas Nelson (albeit quietly) supported Kerry.  There is a Democrat in the House, Gene Taylor, that is socially (but not fiscally) to the right of Miller, but he almost never gets people around here vocally angry.

      As I see it, the deal-breaker for Lieberman is not so much his supposed "centrism" in a solid blue state but his big mouth.  That said, I'd love to see a primary challenger for Carper.

      Blue Jersey. All the news that slips from print.

      by Scott in NJ on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:47:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  so what do we do? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    GussieFN, LeftHandedMan, sunbro

    We know the media is not helping and in fact hurting the nation with their propaganda and silly gossipy aproach to journalism.  What do we do about it?

  •  Clinton & dog bones. (9+ / 0-)

    They started by classifying Clinton as the textbook liberal, when Clinton was much more conservative than most think. Now the "left" is roughly "center". It's like fighting a dog for a bone - they keep pulling, biting one nibble further, pulling more, and repeating as necessary - until what is now the "center" of the battleground is where you started on the "left".

    Is it a matter of redefining the labe (positions) most people think they hold? Or will people suddenly embrace being called a liberal when they actually confront the horrors of conservatism?

    "I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV."

    by zeitshabba on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:08:01 AM PDT

    •  Not insignificant (15+ / 0-)

      Liberal politicians need to once again say, with pride, they are "liberal", out loud, without fear. Fear of this word makes the word, and what it represents, seem extreme. It is not. It's simply been smeared by the Right-Wing wurlitzer for the last 20 years.

      The rational policies endorsed by liberal politicians, e.g., universal health care, are far more centrist than the monarchistic policies of the Bush Republicans who simply want to give away as much of the commons as possible to the wealthy elite.

      As for the those who are frightened "liberal" means not being tough on foreign policy, all one needs to do is say three letters: F-D-R. FDR, a liberal's liberal, was of course one of our greatest commander-in-chiefs. Can you imagine if Bush had been president and commander-in-chief during WW2? I shudder to think of the results.

      John F Kennedy:

      What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

      "You really can't run a middle-class democracy with a multimillionaire press corps." -Daily Howler

      by assyrian64 on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:47:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Brilliant diary David! (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    LeftHandedMan, rebop, Scarce, sunbro
    Cant't we just tell every democratoc operative, rep, senator, governor etc. to keep publically calling republicans to be out of the mainstream?

    Its all about framing...

    What is a man without his mobile phone? The answer is here:www.pdanews.de

    by MarcTGFG on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:16:49 AM PDT

  •  A better diary than 99.9% of them (11+ / 0-)

    We used to see more of this type of fine work from people who are not the typical name diarists here at Daily Kos. I realize this will likely be frontpaged at MyDD but it's important people get serious information, exposing the propagandists for what they are.

    Highly recommended.

    Here we are now Entertain us I feel stupid and contagious

    by Scarce on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:16:55 AM PDT

  •  www.joementum.com (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rebop, sunbro

    Lieberman: wants you dead, supports the international drug trade, is a homophobe who doesn’t want a balanced budget, has given up on public schools, is a republican, doesn’t value your privacy, thinks workers shouldn’t be given a living wage and, thinks textile factories in America should go out of business.

    That and more at joementum.com

  •  Linked (10+ / 0-)

    On Ned Lamont's blog.

    You outdid yourself on this one, Sirota.  Great stuff.  Passing it around the office as I type.

    Tim

  •  Centerism is bullshit... (11+ / 0-)

    if it means never having to take an actual stand on anything. If you define yourself solely by triangulating between two other groups than you have been entirely defined by others--"centrism" of this sort is nothing more than the total absence of principles other than a devotion to a meaningless commitment to "centrism." Lieberman is perhaps the worse offender in this regard.

    And as you point out, Lieberman, McCain, etc. have managed to move the definition of "centrism" so far to the right that it means consistently siding with powerful corporate interests against the best interests of the American people. In absolute terms today's "centrism" would have been considered the radical right as recently as the 70s.

    •  those who use 'Centrism' (8+ / 0-)

      never to take a stand are complicit in polarizing this country even further than it is.

      But it is not truly moderate or centrist to do so.

    •  No. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      sunbro, Five Thirty

      Being an authentic centrist has nothing to do with triangulation.  It is simply being open to ideas from all sides of the debate.  It is being more committed to truth than to a political ideology.

      I'm getting awfully tired of the common "wisdom" around here in which moderation is somehow a bad word.  Re-read the excellelent diary you are commenting on.  Joe Lieberman does not define centrism.  He is not a centrist at all.  

       

      Forget Hillary. It's McCain, people. Focus on McCain!!!

      by snout on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:55:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  There's Nothing in the Middle of the Road But (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      assyrian64, BurnetO, alizard

      Yellow Stripes and Dead Armadillos--Jim Hightower

      Back in the 60's I was a liberal. My friends in Oklahoma of all places said I was too middle-class and too moderate. I haven't changed my views much over all, and I share my political views with my 80-something parents. My mother is now Green (although she does change her registration from time to time to do things like vote for Howard Dean and Chuck Pennachio). I am now a flaming leftist, generally in agreement with Barbara Lee. But I'm not the one who has changed.

      Back in the 60's, Bill Clinton would have been a republican. There were quite a few rethugs who were more liberal than Clinton, including Richard Nixon.

      I agree that the chatter has moved far to the right of the country, and I believe it has to do more with corporate control than anything else. Theocratic elements of society are also pushing corporate control. We are supposed to be good little serfs without unions, without education, and without hope. Revolutions happen in the face of rising expectations, not when people are beaten down and frightened.

      Barbara Lee and Howard Dean Speak for me! -9.25 -9.18

      by laurak on Tue May 30, 2006 at 10:59:58 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's why Lieberman is a fraud: (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    assyrian64, rebop, peraspera, snout, sunbro

    In spite of his far-rightist positions, he maintains the label "Democrat."   And this makes it easier for a "centrist" tag to stick.

    The only question is how many people he defrauds by this.

  •  Now remember (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    jfadden, sunbro, strangely enough, MO Blue

    People like Bill Clinton and Howard Dean are as far left as anyone ever has been in the history of the world, because the media says so.

    Those who agree with everything the administration does are just being reasonable non-obstructionists.  They are center-right at most and maybe centrist.  Because the media says so.

    Therefore centrist must mean something in between the Clintons and Bush, but closer to Bush obviously.  Therefore agreeing with Bush most of the time but letting him have is way and not being obstructionist most of the rest of the time is centrist.  And if you are close to as far left or even further left than the Clintons, obviously you are just too extreme to take seriously at all.

    Because the media says so.  

    The only place where Republicans are anywhere close to responsible is in the dictionary.

    by DemDachshund on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:37:11 AM PDT

  •  Centrist Tag Is Also Used to Legitimize... (23+ / 0-)

    ...right wing politicians who may stray from the party line on just one or two issues.  I can't tell you the number of times I've seen Rudy Giuliani described as a centrist, quite OFTEN here at dkos, even though Giuliani lines up with Atilla the Hun on 'law and order' and 'security' issues.  But in this political climate, if you don't care if a woman has an abortion and don't think homosexuality should be outlawed, that makes you a 'centrist.'  

    •  Man (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      philgoblue, MD patriot, snout, sunbro

      I would recommend this 20 times if I could.  The issues you mention are VERY important, but there are other things out there too.  We can't just allow language to be defined solely by gonad politics.

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Tue May 30, 2006 at 08:53:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Don't get me started on Giulliani! (5+ / 0-)

      Giulliani fundamentally does not believe in civil liberties, and there is nothing "centrist" about that, "fascist" is more like it.

      •  Giuliani = Total Slime & Fraud (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        assyrian64, rebop, sunbro

        Giuliani the adulter and general sleazy Bushite, is nothing but media hype.  Let's see what did he do that was so great on 9/11?  Well, he had eight years to buy radios that would connect the police and firemen- Giuliani did nothing.

        But he did not run like a scared puppy, like his master bush, so Giuliani somehow got branded as a "hero".  What a sorry use of the word for this callous grifter.

      •  but you know what? (0+ / 0-)

        Even democrats in NY and NJ like that he "cleaned up NYC".  His methods were harsh but he did the job and it needed doing.  Whether you and I don't like him doesn't matter if people are happy with the results.

        •  I lived in NYC... (9+ / 0-)

          during the Giulliani regime, did you? I didn't like a single thing about it. The so-called "Democrats" who liked the way he "cleaned up" the city were mostly wealthy upper-East siders and bigots who are Democrats more out of tradition than a commitment to progressivism.

          And I have to disagree with you that all that matters are that people are happy with the results. That's the Bush arguement, remember? It doesn't matter if we violate your civil liberties and throw out the rule of law so long as we get good results.

          Methods matter.  Commitment to civil liberties and justice they are fundemental to a functioning Democracy, and they matter whether "the people" think so or not. Without them you no longer have a Democracy, you have a police state.

          You think the methods by which you "clean up" a city don't matter? Tell that to Abner Louima who was raped with a plunger by the NYPD. Tell that to the family of Amadou Diallo, who was shot for the crime of being black. Under Giuliani this sort of thugish behavior by the NYPD became as much the norm as the exception.

          Sorry for the bitchy tone, but I got run into jail by Giuliani's thug police force for nothing more than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (By  way of background Guilliani and Bratton set an "unofficial"--and illegal--policy of requiring transit cops to bring in a quota of 4 people per shift. I just happened to be at the wrong place at the end of some cops' shift and spent a couple days in jail because of it. So as far as I'm concerned it matters whether the police follow the law in "cleaning up.")

          Now you know why I didn't want to get started on Giuliani. I still shake with anger when I think back on what happened to me.

          •  I agree that methods matter (0+ / 0-)

            but most people don't care, or turn a blind eye or are not paying attention.

            •  The thing is... (5+ / 0-)

              there is this media narrative out there that Democrats in New York "loved" Giuliani, and it's one of the things that is supposed to make him more palatable to swing voters and Dems around the rest of the country.

              The thing is, it's just not true, or at least not entirely true. Giuiliani was an extremely polarizing figure in NYC before and after he was elected mayor. Everyone I knew hated him with an intensity that rivals current levels of Bush hatred. Giuliani was very skillful at exploiting racial divisions in the city, which helped him get elected, but it didn't endear him to a lot of us. A lot of the Democrats who voted for him were (I'm sorry to say) nothing more than old-fashioned bigots. Others were people who held their nose and voted for him because they thought he could make them "safer," or increase the value of their condo.

              He was also very good at taking credit for things he had nothing to do with. The fact is crime was dropping rapidly during David Dinkins' last couple years in office, and it dropped significantly across the country during Giuliani’s years in office. Unfortunately most people do not understand the notion of correlation, and just assume that "tough guy" Rudy "cleaned up" the "stinking cesspool" that was NYC (an exaggerated and unfair  perception that was itself very much rooted in racism). It's a simple-minded narrative with little relation to reality (but then as you point out, people do love simple-minded narratives).

              Giuliani just happened to be mayor at the time when (for a combination of reasons) the drug epidemic that was such a problem during the 70s and 80s went into remission. He doesn't deserve any credit for it, and even if he did, it would not justify the systematic, policy-driven violation of civil liberties that happened under his mayoral tenure.

              •  I absolutely agree with you (0+ / 0-)

                I am just affraid that we are in the minority.  I live about 2 hours from NY.  But I know quite a few democrats who live in and around NYC who think he did a good job there.
                I agree with them that NYC needed cleaning up.  But I don't agree with his methods or the results in most cases.

                •  About being in the minority.. (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  jfadden, zinger99

                  I am just affraid that we are in the minority.

                  Of course we are in the minority--we're Democrats! That's what we need to change, and the way to change it is by telling the truth. I bet your friends, especially the ones who lived in the areas outlying areas don't know much about what really happened under Giuliani's reign. I bet they don't know that innocent people were regularly arrested for no reason whatsoever as a matter of policy. Would they really think that's a good policy? To arrest people for no reason? Really?

                  For me it is far more terrifying to think that the government can basically do whatever they want to me without having to answer to anyone, than it is to think I might get mugged, or--God forbid--have to tell a squegee man to leave me alone. Realizing that you have surrendered all power over yourself to the state is terrifying, and that is the kind of America we will live in if Giuliani is elected president. President Guiliani would make Bush look like a card-carrying member of the ACLU.

                  Is that the kind of America they really want? One where they could be grabbed by the police without probable cause and held in jail for days while the cops did "background checks" on them? One were the police could gun their children down without ever having to answer for it? I'm betting it's not.

        •  And Mussolini Made the Trains Run on Time... (5+ / 0-)

          ...in Italy.   And the economy improved tremendously after Hitler suspended the German constitution and made himself dictator.  Germany even got to host both the winter and summer Olympics.

          God knows changes needed doing in 1930s Europe.

          And from the looks of the crowds, it seems like a lot of people were happy with the results, for quite awhile at least, even though 'the methods were harsh.'

          Whatever it takes, right ?

          •  Amen! (0+ / 0-)

            Thank you! I would recommend your post a thousand times over if I could. Thank you!

          •  I love it when people make assumptions (0+ / 0-)

            it makes me feel so much smarter than everyone else.
            Where did I say I approved of his methods?

            Take a poll and check it out.  Most people don't feel like you and I do on this issue.

            •  I Don't Need To Take A Poll... (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              jfadden, zinger99

              ...nor do I need to make assumptions because you were unambiguous in your misconceptions.

              Giuliani was NOT popular in NYC prior to 9/11.

              He was not the one who "did the job" of "cleaning up New York," whatever the hell that means.

              And I wonder how many of these Dems you cite who were so "happy with the results" of Giuliani actually live IN the city because many long time New Yorkers are increasingly unhappy about a city that is becoming home to more and more national 'box merchants' that are eroding the character of the city.  

    •  Centrist Rudy et al (7+ / 0-)

      you struck a nerve with me, Grand Poobah. MSGOP loves to trot out the folksily vicious Alan Simpson to smear every Democrat in the country, and then say "even moderate Alan Simpson", meaning moderately pro-choice, "thinks Al Gore is crazy and John Kerry is a traitor".
      As for Giuliani: Does anybody think he won't cast his support for reproductive privacy and gay rights to the wind in return for a few delegates? And does anybody think Chris Matthews will call it a flip-flop or Monsignor Russert will play gotcha-graphics with historical quotes? More than likely they'll say it reperesents a statesmanlike willingness to compromise and growth as a national leader.
      Damn, I'd like to get through a day without being enraged. I'm gonna go find some roses to sniff or something.

      •  Giulani will try to explain (0+ / 0-)

        that his position on gays and abortion "evolved" ... but without using that nasty word.  

        That's the word GHBW Bush used to describe his own personal journey from pro-choice to anti-choice, a trek that took him almost a week.

        "I cherished my hate like a badge of moral superiority." - Mark Rudd

        by Bob Love on Tue May 30, 2006 at 04:50:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  We should label Bloomberg a centrist n/t (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      rebop

      Blue Jersey. All the news that slips from print.

      by Scott in NJ on Tue May 30, 2006 at 09:35:05 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Centerism (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    rebop, slatsg, alizard

    When I hear that or "governing from the middle, govern from the center" I now immediately think they are in the pockets of corporate lobbyists, corporations and special interests.

    I have no idea what that means beyond that because what America thinks sure isn't in line with this mythical "center".

    •  that's a shame (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      snout

      because it's not necessarily true. It's true if you're Lieberman, but a lot of good ideas DO come from the center, or the middle between two ideas.

      •  I see it more as coalition (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        assyrian64, rebop

        I especially track Bernie Sanders and Peter DeFazio, who are the "far left" and watch when they cosponsor or sponsor bills with conservatives.

        I think there is actually quite a bit in common with the fiscal conservatives on trade and budget.

        Shocking but true.

        So, while I love that because I feel is two different political ideologies agree it's because the facts are so blatant one cannot ignore them and they both care about th