Daily Kos

The DLC and dKos: A Brief History

Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 02:43:46 PM PDT

As near as I can tell, it all started (at least publicly) in May of 2003.  In a memo from the DLC, From and Reed decided the best course of action for the Democrats was to attack other Democrats.

What activists like [Gov. Howard] Dean call the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party is an aberration: the McGovern-Mondale wing, defined principally by weakness abroad and elitist, interest-group liberalism at home. That's the wing that lost 49 states in two elections, and transformed Democrats from a strong national party into a much weaker regional one.

Blog for America ran down the "myths of the myths" at the time.  Do I need to point out that three years after this memo, the Republicans now control ALL levels of the national government?  And not because they appealed to the "center" of their party, or any real ideological positions at all.  In fact, a Salon article from July 2003 makes the point that was pretty evident even at the time:

But in the end, victory might well go to the boldest candidate, despite the carping of the cautious and centrist. "Americans don't vote for someone who has positioned himself in the center," says Curtis Gans, former director of the nonpartisan Committee for the Study of the American Electorate. "They vote for a human being who they trust to help them solve their problems."

Bush didn't win because people agreed with his policy ideas.  He won because he seemed like a "straight-shooter"... and he had legions of Repubs (from all ideological sides) pushing that notion, in lockstep.   While the DLC is happy resting on their laurels and touting the Clinton presidency as their one great accomplishment, they forget that it was NOT Clinton's centrism that got out the vote.  It was the fact that he came across as a "good guy with strong beliefs".

Now, let's look back at May '03.  dKos was just a year old, and the "blogosphere" was in relative infancy. Howard Dean was THE story, because he wasn't afraid to state his opinion, while most of the Washington Dems were scared of looking unpatriotic if they disagreed with Bush. Dean, a Washington outsider, went from being an unknown to media sensation in a short amount of time, with the help of the new "netroots" and other Democrats looking to excite the party.  He wasn't taking cues from Washington consultants, instead he went to the "regular" people, even Kos, to help with his campaign... and it was effective.   It was so effective, the insider Dems came face-to-face with their irrelevance, and possible extinction.

Instead of adapting to the emerging change, and trying to bring EVERYONE into the party,  the DLC made the decision to divide.

At the time, Kos had very few negative comments towards other Democrats.  In fact, the first sign of possible criticism came from Steve Gilliard in July of 2003

Maybe its time other Democrats remind From that there is one party and one goal, defeating George Bush. Polls like this are doing Karl Rove's work for him and he's doing such a good job of undoing it, why is the DLC trying to help him?

The other netroots candidate then was Gen. Clark.  But over the summer, his campaign fell into DC-insider hands, and the entire Draft Clark movement was almost completely shut down. It sent a pretty clear message: The internet, populist movement needs to be eliminated.  Kos picked up on it, and wasn't going to take it lying down:
We are taught from early on to use initiative and be proactive, and to solve our own problems. Yet political campaigns had failed to adapt, insisting volunteers take orders from those at the top of the campaign hierarchy. "Lick envelopes" they would say. Or "canvass a neighborhood". But we are no longer programmed to take orders.

In November 2003, Kos has a great post about the "insider vs. outsider" phenomenon.  Yet, even then, his criticisms are tempered with a hope for unity:
The optimist in me hopes that this "establishment" will realize the power of what Dean (and SEIU in the union world) is building and embrace it, whether Dean wins the nomination or otherwise. There is no mystery as to why Dean (and Clark, to a lesser degree) have captured the fervent support of so many people, while their opponents struggle to make an impact. The establishment throws away that kind of success at its own peril.
Winning is the key, not who holds the levers of power at the DNC, DSCC, DCCC and other Democratic Party institutions. No one should lose sight of that goal.

By the end of 2003, the rift was growing, and the establishment Dems persisted in their attacks on Dean and his supporters.  But Kos showed once again that his issues with the establishment weren't ideological.  He was even VERY supportive of the centrist NDN, to the point of even speaking at their conference the following spring.  That's when all hell broke loose.

Spring 2004 held mixed emotions for many Democrats.  On the Dean front, the media enhanced "scream" provided  DC-insiders the ammunition to rid themselves of his rebel canidacy. But the passion that Dean provided, spurred most of his supporters to continue their activism.  Also, we see the debut of Air America, a refreshed New Democrat Network, the start of Media Matters, and more political blogs than you can shake a net-root at.  However, the DLC had gotten so used to attacking other Democrats, that it became a hard habit to break, even amidst the burgeoning Democratic movement:

[Sen. Mary] Landrieu was attacking Democrats for calling for the repeal of the No Child Left Behind law, while only reluctantly laying the blame squarely where it belonged -- on a Republican administration that had made a real mess of the law.

This was a vintage Democratic Leadership Council approach to intra-party disagreements -- turn the guns inward, attack internally. Without a doubt, the DLC is the most fundamentalist organization within the caucus, the most ideologically rigid, and the most destructive to the progressive cause.
[...]
As for the DLC, it's time to euthanize the organization. Whatever role it may have played is spent. As of now, it's the single most divisive Dem-affiliated organization, refusing to play nice with others even in these desperate ABB times. As such, it deserves nothing but exclusion and ridicule.

As has been said over and OVER and OVER, from the very beginning, it's not about "left" versus "center" Democrats... or even "liberal" versus "conservative" Democrats.  It's all about "Democrats who want to make the party great" versus "Democrats who don't want to lose their consulting jobs".

The DLC was scarred of Dean, because they claimed he was too "liberal".  So Kerry, while not the DLC goldenboy Lieberman, was still acceptable, and From hailed him for building on the "Clinton foundation". It would seem that since the DLC's plan was falling into place,  Kerry's moderate message would run away with the election in November 2004.  Well, we know how that story ended.  Surprisingly (or maybe not), From and Reed persisted in the notion that the reason Democrats lost was because we're too liberal:

Democrats owe the country a muscular strategy of our own. We need to be the party of Harry Truman and John Kennedy, not Michael Moore.

What?!?! They even dredge out the "we helped get Clinton elected" crap again, eventhough Kerry was supposed to be the new Clinton.  In response, Kos echoes the "it's not the ideology" sentiment again.  It became mindboggling as to why these people would stay this course, but March 2005 provided some insight:
...the DLC's Ed Kilgore...complained to me that while the DLC did a lot of GOP bashing, the only time the press paid attention was when they attacked fellow Democrats.

It really becomes the Zell Miller tactic.  If you call yourself a Democrat, then criticize Democrats, any reporter will talk to you and you get a headline.  If you stand firm with your Democratic brethren, the party is benefitted, but you don't get your name in a news article's lead.

Armando offered a few consilitory remarks, even suggesting that the DLC could still be part of the netroots movement:

I think the DLC has learned that commands from the DLC Altar and calls for purges don't do them any good. Well, I think everyone at the DLC but Al From seems to have learned that. And what the DLC can do is what I understood it was intended to do - be an idea and analysis place from a Democratic centrist perspective. Indeed, we Democrats need that. We may disagree with what they come up with some, or even most, of the time. But the process of thinking and discussing, testing and trying, all will help make our ideas stronger.

And he sums up the problem with Lieberman:
So why the disdain for Lieberman? Pretty simple - not a team player. Always undercutting the Democratic position, always on TV cutting Bush and Republicans slack. As many often point out, Lieberman's overall voting record is not that bad. Some votes are particularly irksome, but, I believe Lieberman's big problem is he forgets he is a Democrat, and that means fighting for the Democratic Party, not just for himself.

The rest of 2005 saw the DLC continue droning on about how Democrats need to "be more like Clinton". And From drops this piece of wisdom at a Hofstra speech:
Clinton's New Democrat philosophy is the modernization of liberalism. It is a modern day formula for activist government: progressive policies that create opportunity for all, not just an entitled few; mainstream values like work, family, responsibility, and community; and practical, non-bureaucratic solutions to governing. It reconnects the Democratic Party with the its first principles and grandest traditions by offering new and innovative ways to further them.

It almost sounds like the DLC had been swayed by the blogs' message.  Then five months ago, we find out what their true motivation is:
The trick will be to harness their energy and their money without looking like you are a captive of the activist left.

Get their money... get their man-hours... but don't have your picture taken with any of them.  Even the previously consilitory Armando realized what was happening:
What is shameful and despicable is [Marshall] Wittman's continued aping of the Republican Party's New McCarthyite tactic of labeling disagreement with him and Bush as "defeatism."
[...]
Attacking the patriotism of Democrats for disagreeing with you is not what I expect to hear from Democratic organizations. As many negative things as we have written about Joe Lieberman, we have never, and we never will, question his love for the United States. His loyalty to the Democratic Party? Well, I think he has left himself open to such questioning.

The DLC's influence is waning.  Two DLC supported primary candidates have lost, and they've finally realized that bloggers can not only raise money, but can cause action against those that seek to undermine the Democratic principles we fight for.  And now they're too scared to openly criticize the movement that they were more than willing to criticize 3 years earlier.

Here's a suggestion to DC-insider Dems:  Just stop it!

Kos doesn't want to "wreck" anyone's business.  Heck, he probably doesn't care if consultants get to keep their jobs.  Just stop marginalizing us, stop trying to coddle Republicans, and DON'T undermine the Democratic party.  It's pretty simple really.

The success of YearlyKos and your need for anonymity shows you understand that we have influence.  It now falls at YOUR feet to stop this.  The new movement has grown immensley in a short amount of time, and it's only getting bigger.  When us "everyday" Americans finally put the country back on course, we will be happy to include any consultants who may have differing political views, but support the over-arching cause.  The rest of you will be looking for new jobs... and those newspaper headlines won't be so easy to get then.

Tags: DLC, Joe Lieberman, Markos Moulitsas, Recommended, Blog for America, Al From, Bruce Reed, Howard Dean, Democratic Party, Daily Kos, blogosphere, netroots, Steve Gilliard, Wesley Clark, Media Matters, Air America, Democrats, Ed Kilgore, Marshall Wittmann (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 67 comments

  •  Fantastic history (19+ / 0-)

    phenomenal job.

    Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. -- Ben Franklin

    by mcjoan on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 02:55:47 PM PDT

  •  it's really helpful to see ... (5+ / 0-)

    the full time line...and it really cheers me up to see how much progress we've made through it.

    Can anyone tell me what's "centrist" about using the Constitution to wipe your ass? - ActivistGuy

    by billlaurelMD on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 03:00:16 PM PDT

  •  Which brings us to Hillary 2008 (14+ / 0-)

    The party insiders (I call them the "mandarins") are bound and determined to prevent a recurrence of the Dean insurgency before it starts. Their strategy is to use Hillary Rodham Clinton's star power and fund-raising ability, not to mention the media's obsession with her, to declare her the nominee long before the first primary.

    The strategy might get her nominated, but it won't elect her. And it could irreparably damage the Democratic Party.

    Replete with "misstatements" and elisions and retracted and redacted and revoked assertions.--Carl Bernstein on HRC's record.

    by Dump Terry McAuliffe on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 03:03:00 PM PDT

    •  I think it will elect her if she (6+ / 0-)

      gets nominated. Or any other Democrat who can get through the nomination process.

      And the fallout when the American people find out that the Democratic Party got a mandate for change (any two or three of the House, Senate, or White House) and pissed it away on corporate-driven business as usual won't merely irreparably damage the Democratic Party, it will destroy it.

      Unfortunately, that's what I expect. The DLC does have an ideological agenda, which can be briefly summarized as:

      Anyone who thinks a DLC-dominated Federal government can do anything significant towards rebuilding the middle class or creating a foriegn policy that benefits the average American given those constraints is taking the wrong end of a sucker bet.

      Personally, I think it's just as well the DLC did decide to attack the netroots, it persuaded many of us to turn over the rocks one has to in order to discover who they really are and what they really stand for. . . is there anybody left around here who does NOT know that the DLC/affiliates have accepted funding from right-wing foundations?

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 02:58:35 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  no, not Hilary! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      I live in terror of a Hilary nomination...exactly the kind of candidate that has lost election after election for us.  If she can't excite her base (i.e. us) she'll sure as heck excite the republican one.

  •  Is there a list of members? (6+ / 0-)

    I know the DLC doesn't publish a list on their own site - which is interesting in and of itself.

  •  Thanks MaxKelly. This is helpful. I' ve been (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, dkmich, Da Buddy

    trying to learn more about the DLC issues with progressives and vice a versa.  This is the best concise history I've seen so far.  

    The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HoundDog on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 03:33:04 PM PDT

  •  This is a modification of a comment I made (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dkmich, PatsBard

    earlier this morning.  Am I over reacting here?

    The DLC website is running a fairly provocative essay entitled "Return of Liberal Fundementalism"

    They suggest "left wing liberals" are imposing  "single issues litmus tests on Joe Liebermand and others and that "progressive purgers" are reducing the size of the big tent" arguments using Lieberman as the example.

    These two paragraphs state their argument best I think.

    But there's an undertow that could undermine the potential Democratic tide: efforts by some Democratic activists and organizations to introduce ideological litmus tests for elected officials and intimidate or even purge those who do not meet a narrow definition of what makes a "real Democrat." These efforts not only threaten party unity and divert attention and resources from the broader goal of defeating Republicans; they also signal an intolerance toward dissent and diversity that can repel voters and make an enduring Democratic majority more difficult to achieve.

    And they quote Barack Obama challengins Daily Kos as well as anti-Lieberman forces:

    Sen. Barack Obama perfectly captured the dangers of liberal fundamentalism last fall, in a diary he posted on the DailyKos blog site, a hotbed of anti-Lieberman sentiment:

    [T]o the degree that we brook no dissent within the Democratic Party, and demand fealty to the one, "true" progressive vision for the country, we risk the very thoughtfulness and openness to new ideas that are required to move this country forward. When we lash out at those who share our fundamental values because they have not met the criteria of every single item on our progressive "checklist," then we are essentially preventing them from thinking in new ways about problems. We are tying them up in a straightjacket and forcing them into a conversation only with the converted.


    Beyond that, by applying such tests, we are hamstringing our ability to build a majority.

    My first two reactions are that

    1. Challenging incubants who have not represented a broad range of progressive issues is not treason but democracy in action.  It would be different if we were supporting the GOP in the November elections.  

    But is the DLC saying one an incumbant is elected any further Democratic voters favoring a primary alternative is treasonous?  This is absurd and needs to be nailed.

    1. The DLC is trying to frame a progressive preference for a more progressive Lamont candidacy that is more reflective of mainstream Democratic values as a destructive single issue "litmus test" based purge of an otherwise loyal and true Democrat.  

    I do not know the specific history well enough, however, my suggestion to those who disagree is to get the Markos article (or whomever it was that wrote the extensive history of Liebermans dozen or so apparent or alledge major betrayals of progressive causes over his career.

    I think Markos mentioned Alito.  Also, the DLC quoted Liebermans 90% Liberal vote metric, but someone (again I think Markos) pointed out that Lieberman games the votes, by opposing key planks in procedural votes and then going with the ones counted.)  Again sorry for not remembering the details.

    But a DLC challenge that needs to be responded to is the single issue litmus.  My own personal reason for favoring Lamont is that I promised I would hold any and all Senators and other Democrats accountable in primaries to better progressives if they did not support the Russ Feingold Motion of Censure and other accoutability on NSA wiretaps.  

    And also said the same about any Senator who did not speak our more in favor of holding President Bush accountable for the PlameGate political misuse of intelligence, intelligence cherry picking, violation of Geneva Conventions, violations of the 1945 UN Charter, the Chompsky allegation of war crimes in Fallujah, and speaking out on a number of other issues, such as attepts to gut the EPA etc.

    So I reject the single issue Litmus test allegation, as well as the premise that anyone who favors a more progressive Democratic challenger against an incumbant is a destructive treasoners anit-Democratic force.

    I'm concerned that the DLC seems to be intentinally attacking and  insulting both progressives, as well as the democratic process itself.

    I hope someone more knowledable and articulate challenges the DLC on this damaging attack on loyal constructive, good progessive Democrats.  This is an example of the very angry "big tent" reducing destructiveness they accuse others of.

    The means is the ends in the process of becoming. - Mahatma Gandhi

    by HoundDog on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 03:49:12 PM PDT

    •  This is fear. (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, alizard, dkmich

      Several writers recently have exposed the stakes that populist, progressive politics represents to these people.  They stand to lose everything they've got: reputation, influence, income.

      And they're fighting back, in a nasty way.

      We criticize the republicans for putting party before country; the DLC took that page right out of their book and is putting DLC influence before the will of Democrats.

      Je suis inondé de déesses

      by Marc in KS on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 01:04:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hypocrites (4+ / 0-)

      But is the DLC saying [once] an incumbent is elected any further Democratic voters favoring a primary alternative is treasonous?

      Which is the exact opposite message that Obama and his crew were sending to voters in the IL-06 Primary, where they "muscled in" the DLC-leaning Duckworth over Cegelis, the ALREADY ESTABLISHED grassroots candidate.

      "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing - after they have exhausted all other possibilities." ~Winston Churchill

      by Da Buddy on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 01:16:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  the problem isn't 'liberal fundamentalism' (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      trashablanca, Russgirl

      The problem is that the DLC attacks any Democrat with a shot at political power who doesn't rigidly follow their ideological agenda and denies the right of Democrats to have agendas that they didn't invent.

      Who does the Democratic Party belong to? An organization of its elected officials and its staff members and constultant network, or Democratic voters and political activists?

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 03:17:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Shorter DLC (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe

      Shorter DLC: We can't have a big tent with all these radical leftists around!

      "Big tent" is code for "appeasement." They are only ever unhappy if someone is too far to the left.

      Ring the bells that still can ring. Forget your perfect offering. -L. Cohen

      by inkadu on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 05:12:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Controllers (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dkmich

    In the weeks leading up to the invasion of Iraq, the world's governments and millions in the streets spoke out against the impending disaster. Demonstrators protested within the United States as well. But except for the LaRouche wing and scattered individual politicians, the Democratic Party—the putative opposition—was frozen, intimidated. Its new controllers had locked the former party of Franklin Roosevelt and John Kennedy into complicity.

    [...]

    How has this happened—since typical Democratic voters overwhelmingly oppose the imperial madness of the Bush Administration, preferring the humaneness Americans associate with Franklin Delano Roosevelt and John F. Kennedy? The answer is similar to that of the religious question: How have Christians and Jews come to be represented, as far as the public sees, by right-wingers and Armageddonists?

    - Why the Democratic Party Failed To Function in This Crisis, by Anton Chaitkin, April 2003

    (I posted this same link in two other threads some hours ago, but it seems yet even better placed here. I find myself wondering if people are aware of this history of the DLC!)

    -------

  •  A very relevant diary! (8+ / 0-)

    I hope the people on DKos who yell everytime we point out the folly of the DLC agenda will read and digest this accurate, as I remember it, diary of how this all came about.

    I have always said that Al From labors under the delusion that he is responsible for Bill Clinton winning the presidency. The truth is, he had very little to do with it! Other than introduce Clinton to some of his well-heeled corporate friends, From mostly just got in the way. But in 1998, when Clinton was being sabotaged by the Republican Congress and virtually every pundit in the MSM, From was the first to abandon him. He sent out one of his infamous memos like tablets from the top of the mountain to pull away from Clinton. And Congessional Democrats, tethered to From by strings of $$$, turned away from the most popular Democrat of the latter portion of 20th Century.

    But the most egregious plank of the DLC agenda is insinuating itself in primary battles... indeed, of freezing out Progressive candidates in favor of a DLC candidate they can can control. This was Dean's big sin... he cared more about the American people than Al From's corporate buddies and his regressive agenda. It's all about control... and about From wrestling it from the people who make up the Democratic Party... that's you and me! Rock on Daily Kos!!!

    •  asdf (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, lezlie, dkmich

      ... freezing out Progressive candidates in favor of a DLC candidate they can can control.

      This is the thing that really gets me, the elitism, the "We know better than you simple little people," when in fact they have an astonishing record of losing elections.

      I can understand their reluctance to let go of their power and influence and wealth; I can even understand the cogntive biases they have that allow them to persist in the belief that they actually know what they're doing.

      But I don't have to put up with it.  For all Clinton's successes, it remains doubtful he would have won had it not been for candidates pulling away votes from the republican candidate.  We got lucky with Clinton.

      Je suis inondé de déesses

      by Marc in KS on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 01:01:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And, don't forget. Dean and his supporters (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      lezlie

      had the audacity to run without asking them.  Who the hell did we think we were?  Freaking Americans living in a democracy?  No, the DLC and ALL of its members and supporters have to have got to go.  

      Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

      by dkmich on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 02:35:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The think tank of the DLC (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, Catte Nappe, alizard, dkmich, BobOak

    I didn't see mention made of the DLC's think tank -- where the "New Democrat" ideas come from (or are propagandised): the Progressive Policy Institute. Readers will find a tremendous study in contrasts if they will open a web browser on the PPI site and another for the Economic Policy Institute (EPI).

    My activism is focused on offshore outsourcing and H-1b "worker replacement" programs. In these areas, the DLC and PPI are a sad disappointment sounding little different from the Republican free traders with a superficial layer of concern for workers but nothing truly constructive or critical offered. I've concluded that they are quite willing to collaborate with business interests if it will help them win elections even if it means sacrificing American workers and undermining the integrity of the Democratic Party's supposed concern for the rights of workers and living standards of middle and working Americans.

    Lost your job to free trade, outsourcing or non-immigrant visa workers yet?

    by Info Tech Guy on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 09:27:33 PM PDT

  •  Diary in dKosopedia would be wonderful n/t (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    dkmich
  •  fantastic read (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, dkmich

    Being played like a violin I think should be added to the "not a Democratic value" list.

  •  great work!!! (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera, dkmich

    what inspired you to do this?  ;-)

    Head to Heading Left, BlogTalkRadio's progressive radio site!

    by thereisnospoon on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 10:27:59 PM PDT

  •  Stop dissing DLC too (0+ / 0-)

    I think we should stop dissing DLC.

    However you can continue to diss Marshall Wittman, Bruce Reed, Al From--anyway they are not democrats.

    Fact check Obama spins on Hillary http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

    by timber on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 10:28:11 PM PDT

    •  You might want to rethink your post. (0+ / 0-)

      Do you actually believe that we shouldn't attack a group given that you want to throw every one of its administrators that you know of out of the Democratic Party?

      That's like saying "We shouldn't attack the GOP" and following up with "Every single Republican politician should be kicked out of public office".

      Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

      by alizard on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 03:13:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It is like FEMA or CIA (0+ / 0-)

        CIA was not the problem--it was Tenet.  FEMA was not the problem--it is Chertoff and Brown.  We dont get rid of FEMA or CIA just its leaders.  

        In the perspective of the world--America  is not the problem,  it is Dick Cheney and George Bush, Rove and Rumsfeld.

        Fact check Obama spins on Hillary http://facts.hillaryhub.com/

        by timber on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 08:40:54 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  here's the thing about divisiveness. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Epitome, coigue

    as of 2003 i'm sure a blogger like markos had said little to criticize other dems.

    but the content of the site itself had said a lot to criticize other democrats.  

    so if you're sitting there in the DLC in 2003 and you're being attacked by people who post at the site, but not by the blogger himself, AND the blogger himself is encouraging that attack in a sort of passive way, then you really do have no choice but to respond as if it comes from the blogger himself.

    wether it's intentional or not isn't the point.

    and the perfect example i've seen is when a front pager posted a "a trouble for hillary diary" during the last NY mayoral race.

    by not showing up at an event for Ferrer, instead of just criticizing hillary for ditching the losing campaign, this front pager wrang his hands for hillary's sake -- he was genuinely concerned for her -- he likes her he says -- saying the danger is that she might appear racist for not supporting ferror more diligantly.

    and of course half the people called this front pager out for calling her racist.  which was wrong.

    and the other half went about their business of calling hillary racist.  why duh!! a yuk yuk yo.  if she's so insensitive to not see the danger, why then she must be racist!

    which was also wrong.

    so who did this front pager respond to in this diary??

    the people who misrepresented his point back to him.  the people who erroneously called this front pager who out for calling hillary racist??

    or did he tell the people who erroneously called hillary racist that they missed his point as well???

    you know the answer:  the first one.

    i asked this front pager about this one day.  cause we all know how responsive this front pager can (or could, i gess) be.  if he saw something misinterpretted, the swiftness and passion with which he undertook a correction of the record was very admirable indeed.  so.  if two groups of people both got it wrong.

    why only respond to one group.  why, to the people who called hillary racist, wouldn't the front pager be as equally diligently to set the record straight and say the words:

    no.  i didn't call hillary racist.  i do not believe she is racist.  and anyone who thinks she is racist, i think they are wrong.

    and the answer i got was, i'm sorry, insufficient:  i can't respond to every kossack who misinterprets my diary.

    i had to laugh.  no.  can't?  or won't?

    this is probably the best example i can think of.  it's not to focus on armando.  although i'm sure he'll think i am.  it's a dynamic that exists throughout the site.

    the main point is not to call armando something.  because everyone does it anyway.

    the main points is this:  front pagers do set a tone.  the blogger himself does set a tone.  a diary is not just what it says, but the reaction it seeks to get.  posting a diary baiting everyone to say the most horrible things one can imagine about john kerry and then, if called on it later, saying i can't control what people say on my site is complete bullshit.

    it's bullshit because we've seen the blogger control content vis a vis conspiracy theories.  we know the blogger WHEN HE CHOOSES, will regulate content.  so we must conclude that divisive responses to diaries (including both comments and subsequent diaries) are supported by the blogger himself.  he has simply NEVER said otherwise.

    so.  that's just to refute this notion that the DLC started this.  i can't say the blogosphere started this either.

    as i've been following this the origin and any escalation of belligerence has been ... the best analogy is sectarian violence.  no one knows when it began.  all we know is the escalation and that it will continue.

    here's my suggestion:  the DLC crowd can stop.  i'm all for it.

    here's another suggestion:  markos and other front pagers can stop baiting the community, and take a little more responsibility for how we all know the community will respond to some diaries.

    until then those diaries must be viewed, AS AN AGGREGATE OF VIEWS AND RESPONSES, as every bit as decisive as the inanity that sometimes comes out of the DLC.

    I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

    by BiminiCat on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 11:06:58 PM PDT

    •  and if we have a right to respond to their (0+ / 0-)

      inanity.

      then so do they have a right to respond to ours.

      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

      by BiminiCat on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 11:11:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I agree (0+ / 0-)

        we have our own version of
        "if it bleeds it leads"
        here at dKos.

        (Disclaimer: I did not see the specific diary that you mention, so I cannot speak to it)

        But clearly some of the front-pagers (especially the last batch, but definitely kos himself included) like to throw in some DLC red-meat, or anti-NARAL red meat, or anti-protest red-meat to get the commenters going.

        Hopefully, most of us see the manipulation, even as we participate in the ensuing frenzy.

        Back from the dead due to a busted ankle and severe boredom.

        by coigue on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 01:36:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  devisive (0+ / 0-)

      not decisive.

      ha!!!!

      I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

      by BiminiCat on Wed Jun 14, 2006 at 11:21:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The DLC has their own blog (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, trashablanca

      It's called "the media"...

      Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

      by ChicagoDem on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 05:56:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the positions of the DLC (0+ / 0-)

        are just as badly misrepresented by the MSM as they are by the blogosphere.

        I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

        by BiminiCat on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 07:57:18 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Like what? (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          AmericanRiverCanyon

          First of all, I don't think it's particularly easy to identify the DLC's "positions", because they tend to change with the weather.  Most of their policy briefs say "Democrats need to reject the self-defeating advice offered by the fossil left..." spend a few lines talking about how terrible liberalism is, then conclude with a suggestion that we take up the stance of some hallowed old figure -- FDR, Truman, maybe Bill Clinton.  We very rarely get an actual policy out of that.  

          But even so, I'd love to see an example of the DLC taking a strong stand on something and then having it twisted around by the MSM the way liberal policies are.  If nothing else I would at least respect them more for exposing themselves to the possibility of accountability.

          Read James Loewen's "Sundown Towns"!

          by ChicagoDem on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 08:28:18 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  A little more context. (3+ / 0-)

      At the time of the original DLC memo which criticized Dean, dKos was still in MoveableType... so while the message boards/comments were quite active, Kos was really the singular voice on this site.  It wouldn't be another 5 months until the Scoop format was adopted, and the diaries came into being.

      The DLC's attack on Dean was unprovoked.  The current attacks on the netroots were initially unprovoked.  And even now, most of the DLC criticism posts are rooted soley in rebuttals of THEIR attacks.

      I didn't include it in my original entry, because I was focusing on dKos v. the DLC, but there's an excellent article from April 2001 that clearly spells out where the DLC is coming from.  From said:

      I did a memo to Gore. I actually gave him a game plan to try to contain the populism in a way that would do the least damage.

      The rest of the article shows that the DLC is all about money.  They view big business donations as the Democratic Party savior, and Dean (and Wellstone) was bucking that idea.  At that point, there were two roads they could've traversed.  One being solidarity with the populist Democrats -- using their resources to add to the emerging grassroots movements.  However, they went the second route -- trying to eliminate the movement.

      It may sound like 3rd grade politics, but honestly, they started it.  It rests in their court to end it.

      •  bad excuse (0+ / 0-)

        if markos wanted to speak out saying that the attacks on the DLC were unfounded back in 2002, he could have.  he did not.  the tone of the blog is still set by the person who LEADS the blog.

        and, newsflash, the blogosphere is about money too.

        hits. advertising.  and consultant money.

        you're lying to yourself if you think it isn't.

        I want Lamont to win, but I won't cry when he doesn't.

        by BiminiCat on Fri Jun 16, 2006 at 02:24:42 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Two nits: conciliatory incumbent (0+ / 0-)

    And the point about content control. Well taken.

  •  Idealogical purity (0+ / 0-)

    I keep hearing that this isn't about idealogical purity or political litmus tests. Yet whenever I see criticisms about the DLC, it's almosy always to do with the positions they supposedly take on certain issues, especially the issue of Trade. Survey the comments the next time a front pager posts another anti-DLC baiter post & I'll bet you half the negative comments have to do with the DLC's politics.

    •  The DLC hates you. It hates me. It hates (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, AmericanRiverCanyon

      its' base.  If it were a person, the DLC would be in therapy for self-mutilation.

      Republicans don't have 60 votes, and it doesn't seem to bother them one bit.

      by dkmich on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 02:38:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  the DLC LOVES its base (4+ / 0-)

        And if you're a Fortune 500 CEO with a well-funded PAC, they'll be happy to have you become a member.

        Where'd you get the idea that they were working for us?

        The DLC was founded for the specific purpose of marginalizing the traditional Democratic Party constituencies to make it easy to raise corporate money.

        Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

        by alizard on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 03:08:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Maybe now... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      peraspera, Wary, AmericanRiverCanyon

      ... but Marcos didn't start his criticisms of the DLC on any idealogical grounds.  In fact, as I noted, he strongly supported the NDN, which hold similar policy beliefs with the DLC.  The difference is that the NDN was supportive of the blogosphere's efforts, and the DLC was(is) trying to undermine it.

      That being said, disagreement on policy within the ranks is one of the strengths of the Democratic party.  We may disagree with Reid on the abortion issue, but we don't marginalize him... and he doesn't marginalize us.

  •  Really nice job (4+ / 0-)

    of pulling all this stuff together.  Thanks.  It looks like it took a lot of research and a lot of time.

    Recommended!

    Je suis inondé de déesses

    by Marc in KS on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 12:54:57 AM PDT

  •  Bottom Line: (6+ / 0-)

    The DLC has been running the show since the early 90's. Outside of Clinton himself, we have been consistently LOSING ground during their tenure.

    Bottom Line: It's time to cull the herd.

    "Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing - after they have exhausted all other possibilities." ~Winston Churchill

    by Da Buddy on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 01:34:50 AM PDT

  •  BOOING HILLARY NOT HELPING (0+ / 0-)

    PROPOGANDA FOR THE VRWC

    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." ~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

    by godislove on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 07:06:28 AM PDT

    •  Hillary should be booed (0+ / 0-)

      The VRWC doesn't actually need facts to pillory Hillary. If she'd received a standing ovation, it would prove what a radical leftist she is. If she's booed, it's proof that Democrats hate the troops. If everyone sits and claps politely, it's proof that she's unable to inspire her base.
      If no-one shows up, it's proof she's out of the mainstream. If the hall is packed, it's proof that she's pandering to the Michael Moore wing of the party.
      If she wears a blue suit, she's sending coded signals to the liberals. If she wears a red suit, she is cynically trying to gloss over her real positions. If she wears an orange suit, OMG! who picked that out for her?
      So, since it doesn't matter what we do, why not be honest?

      --
      Paper Ballots Counted By People!

      by Rupert on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 02:40:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Highly Recommend this Diary! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera

    Thank you for all the research and this very well written diary!

    "People should not vote for any Republican, because they're dangerous, dishonest and self-serving"

    by Wary on Thu Jun 15, 2006 at 08:24:07 AM PDT

  •  Recommended - should this be in dKosopedia? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peraspera

    I wasn't around when this happened, but I've always wondered what went down.  Thanks for doing all the work.

  •  Apologist (0+ / 0-)

    I did a quick scan of the comments and stuff.  And while Al From and the DLC might look like they control the party since the 90's they don't.  Yes, they are the corporate side of the party.  Nothing wrong with that.  They, like people that are against abortion, can be Democrats too.  This anger toward the DLC is from long before the Internet with Jackson calling the DLC, Democrats for the Leisure Class.  

    Thw anger at the DLC is crazy.  Why are you so angry at the DLC.  They wrote some words about how they didn't think Dean was a credible candidate.  That long experience with Mondale and Dukakis made them weary of a candidate that was seen as being elitist.  It's only words!  Who cares.  The enemy is still the GOP.  The DLC didn't start the Iraq war.  The DLC didn't run losing campaigns in 2000 or 2004.  

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