Lieberman's Latest Dirty Trick

Well A research company just called me concerning the Connecticut Primary. They could not say who paid for survey though nothing odd about that. The first questions seemed very normal. They were about my history of voting, and demographic questions. but...

At the end came the kicker. They asked to respond to two statements and about whether I was more reassured about the candidate:

The two statements:

The first was a long statement (really a mini-speech)by Joe Lieberman and how he WOULD DEFINITELY run as an independant if he lost the primary. And how if elected as an independant he would continue to caucus and vote with the Democrats; and would continue to show his loyalty to the Democratic Party.

The second was a statement ABOUT Lamont stating how in Greenwich he side with Republicans 80% of the time including to cut school funding.

•  Tips :)

  by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:51:05 PM PDT

  •  What was the name of this research company? (n/t)

    by Scarce on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:30:31 PM PDT

    •  Something like

      "Mountain Reaearch", but I didn't take notes.. sadly

      by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:40:26 PM PDT

      •  was it

        "Mountain West Research?"

        by thirdparty on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:54:56 PM PDT

        •  Sounds right

          But I can't say absolutely

          why?

          by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:05:51 PM PDT

          •  Google

            If you Google the number that Larkspur got on her Caller ID, the first link is a complaint forum about getting unwanted calls from this number.  Someone in the forum says the calls are from Mountain West Research.

            by Maura in VA on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:15:31 PM PDT

          •  their name

            comes up in a google search on a relevant phone #.

            by thirdparty on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:15:45 PM PDT

            •  Do we have anything on them? n/t

              by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:30:37 PM PDT

              •  Well...

                Mountain West Research is run by Western Wats, who are based in Provo, Utah. They are reputed to be the largest data collection agency in the United States.

                Their call center though in based in the Cebu Islands of the Phillipines located in the Mactan Economic Zone II, a tax haven for American companies looking to outsource.

                by Scarce on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 10:32:33 PM PDT

                •  They also did push-polling for Bob Dole

                  in 1996. See my post below.

                  Mitch Gore

                  Wanna win in '08...?

                  Put your money where your mouth is.

                  by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:46:20 PM PDT

        •  Elsewhere...

          ...I read in another thread about the Lieberman push-polling that someone thought the company was "Eastern Research".  Eastern Research appears to do telephone data collection.  They don't seem to be located in Provo (Larkspur's caller ID had a Provo, UT number) but you can always route calls through a different caller ID number.

          by Maura in VA on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:11:19 PM PDT

    •  go get 'em, Scarce. n/t

      by fezzik on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:24:22 PM PDT

•  Push polling. Nice.

  Is Karl Rove an official adviser to the Lieberman campaign yet?  I'd definitely be checking his campaign expenditure statements at next filing, to see if there were any suspicious corporate boilerplates there.  The ePluribus Media crowd could knock that out in a couple of hours.

  by Dallasdoc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:52:00 PM PDT

  •  I was so furious

    I'm hoping other Dems will have the same reaction to the call.

    by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:57:27 PM PDT

    •  If I didn't know Lamont

      I'd think HIS campaign did this. I can't believe they'd admit Lieberman is willing to buck his own party just for another term in office. Great way to alienate loyal Democrats.

      by matt n nyc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:17:11 PM PDT

      •  Lieberman's campaign is an embarrasment

        I'd like to think that Ned Lamont is making such a great charge because he's a great candidate running a strong campaign, with the aid of national and tireless local bloggers. While that's true it's also a certainty that Ned Lamont owes a great deal to the ineptitude of the Lieberman campaign, both dear old Joe and his staff. Every move they've made so far has backfired to an extent that most observers are just left shaking their heads and asking "Are they serious?"

        http://www.dailykos.com/...

        by Scarce on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:43:10 PM PDT

        •  This kind of ineptitude is the result of being

          out of touch with his base and never having to fight to keep his seat.

          While I liked Gedjensen (not sure of the spelling), who was the 2nd CD-CT's US Rep before Simmons, much better than Lieberman, he had grown so out of touch with his constituency that he lost his in-state campaign infrastructure, just like Lieberman has.

          I think we also have to give credit to Tom Swan, Lamont's campaign manager, as well as to the ineptitude of Lieberman's campaign staff.  Swan was CCD's Exec Director and has been involved in CT Democratic politics for a long time.  He certainly has put together a very proactive and innovative campaign staff for Ned.

          by Larksour on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 07:36:28 PM PDT

          •  Sam was great

            I always thought it was strange that he disappeared (back to the family farm)?

            by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:33:40 PM PDT

  •  how is that a push poll?

    A push poll is a form of direct advertising through false polling, a way to inject negative information into the public without tying it to the campaign.

    This is nothing that Lieberman hasn't said publicly, if it's coming from his camp.

    by Adam B on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:59:31 PM PDT

    •  I would

      consider this barely push polling.  It presents a false choice.  One is a positive message about Lieberman and the other a negative one about Lamont.  The goal is to get the information out there.  The actual data they collect is not as important.

      by juls on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:01:50 PM PDT

      •  It's okay to look at my feet.

        Just don't be a goddamned sneak about it.

        • Seymour Glass

        by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:14:19 PM PDT

    •  Contrasted

      a statement BY Lieberman with a (false) statement about Lamont.

      That's a push poll, meant to appear objective but sway opinion.

      by mollyd on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:02:00 PM PDT

      •  the newsworthy part

        Is just that Lieberman (if it's him) is testing whether an independent candidacy would be favored, or whether people demand that he remain a Democrat.

        Scrap any questions about "dirty" politics; there's your story.

        by Adam B on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:06:28 PM PDT

        •  No

          he's not "testing" whether his independent candidacy would be favored, he's preparing the battleground for his decision to jump ship - which he likely has already made - by trying to assure CT Dems he won't become a Republican.

          by thirdparty on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:38:55 PM PDT

          •  maybe, maybe not

            I still think he's got to test whether people would remain loyal to him before he does it.  It's a gamble.

            by Adam B on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 07:48:45 PM PDT

            •  Agree with you for once

              ..about the gambling part.

              Lieberman should either run as an Independent or run as a Demoocrat. He seems to think he can have his cake and eat it too by doing both. That's bad political thinking.

              If, as looks entirely possible, he loses in the primary he'll have to endure a further three months of dramatically reduced expectations and opinion polls, going into a November election as a loser. John Droney, Dick Morris, and all the other political pundits were right to question the judgment of such a strategy. While I'm glad Joe is going this route, I just don't understand it.

              by Scarce on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 06:20:04 AM PDT

      •  When you're right, you're right.

        That's a push poll.

        by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:07:23 PM PDT

    •  And if this was Santorum against Casey?

      You'd be screaming "push-poll."

      This is a false poll, meant only to:

      (a) assure CT dems that he would continue to caucus with Dems once he jumps, and

      (b) repeat Lieberman's disproven attack mailer talking points.

      by thirdparty on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:31:30 PM PDT

      •  It's not a push poll.

        We don't know the full extent of the questionaire, and it just repeats claims he's lodged elsewhere.  A true "push poll" pushes new negative messages into the political bloodstream.

        by Adam B on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 07:49:32 PM PDT

•  Remember there is a lie in Lieberman

  Just a hint to remember the correct spelling. Doesn't hurt that it's true.

  by jiffykeen on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 04:56:37 PM PDT

•  It sounds like

  a normal campaign tactic, not a "dirty trick."

  by Mike S on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:02:43 PM PDT

  •  While

    many of us activists know about this as a dirty campaign trick, I don't believe that the average voter knows about push polling.  If Lieberman wants to resort to theses negative methods it is in Lamont's interests to expose it.

    by juls on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:06:44 PM PDT

    •  I have no problem

      with Lamont exposing what is going on. But I still wouldn't call it a "dirty trick" because it is a common practice.

      by Mike S on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:09:43 PM PDT

      •  Holy Joe will steal your underpants.

        That's not a dirty trick.  Just a fact.

        by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:11:20 PM PDT

        •  I would think he'd consider it vulgar to

          even think about underpants, much less touch them.

          by DemocraticLuntz on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:13:19 PM PDT

          •  I think you give him way too much credit. n/t

            by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:15:42 PM PDT

            •  You think Lieberman sleeps around?

              I don't.

              by DemocraticLuntz on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:21:04 PM PDT

              •  I don't either. Not my point.

                But I think he would sniff your underpants if it would make him Senator again.

                Actually, I think he is completely out of touch with what is happening to him.  Watching this campaign I am irresistably called back to remember Al Campanis. Dodger fans will know what I mean.

                by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:26:19 PM PDT

                •  He certainly seems to enjoy.,,,

                  "presidential" underpants.

                  by irate on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:32:33 PM PDT

                •  Agree with the second part.

                  Not a Dodgers fan, but I was absolutely obsessed with baseball from the age of 5 to 11 or 12, and I have probably watched Ken Burns's baseball documentary at least 15 times during that time period.

                  Since there was a little bit about Campanis, I know what you're talking about.

                  by DemocraticLuntz on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:50:47 PM PDT

      •  Common

        or not.  It is still a dirty way to do politics.  I reject the notion that push polling should be an accepted way to win an election.

        by juls on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:12:34 PM PDT

      •  point taken, but

        just because it's common practice doesn't mean it's not dirty.

        by fezzik on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:26:25 PM PDT

  •  It's deceptive. And a dirty trick.

    It's quite possible the interviewer was not even recording the answers; according to the diarist, the leading questions were only categorizing.

    I lived in CT for a year, and I heard from more than one person what a dirty campaign holy joe had conducted against Weicker.

    Obviously, the leopard hasn't changed his spots.

    by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:10:34 PM PDT

    •  I'd call the push polls

      against McCain where they asked how people would feel about a black baby a dirty trick. But there isn't anything along those lines here. Lamont probably did vote 80%+ with the GOP which is quite common on town councils.

      Sorry, I'm just non-plussed by this one.

      by Mike S on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:19:15 PM PDT

      •  Non-plussed = bewildered. Is that what you mean?

        And the 2000 question was not 'would you be troubled about a black baby' but 'would it affect your decision to learn that John McCain has a black baby out-of-wedlock'?  Very different, I think, as is joe's push-poll.

        by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:30:09 PM PDT

        •  I'm not bothered by it.

          If he did the kind of thing Rove did than I would be bothered.

          This is the way political campaigns are run. Lamont is a big boy and will handle this just as well as he has everything else.

          by Mike S on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:35:32 PM PDT

      •  Lies and distortions

        The Lieberman campaign is fundamentally distorting Ned's public service record.

        Ned voted to increase funding to public education.  The Lieberman campaign knows that.  They are simply LYING knowing that most voters won't read the fine print (which is that Ned joined his colleagues in voting for an increase which was smaller than what the school board requested...an absolutely common practice in just about EVERY municipality).

        This push poll apparently also pushes the distorted information on Ned's record with health costs and municipal employees in Greenwich.  Ned's vote required that MANAGEMENT abide by the same increases in health care out-of-pocket expenses that the management had negotiated with unionized employees.  That meant that management had to "feel the pain" that they inflicted on blue-collar workers.  As a union member, I think that's awesome!  A real victory for middle class workers.  But the Lieberman campaign distorts the fact to make it sound like Lamont shafted most public employees.  The vote pertained only to a small number of high-level managerial positions.  

        The Lieberman campaign can claim it's the technical truth, but they've obviously distorted the original facts so much that they no longer resemble the truth at all.  That's a longwinded way of saying that they're simply lying.

        by Maura in VA on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:01:28 PM PDT

  •  Well...

    I'd call it a dirty trick if the Lieberman campaign paid for it but won't admit it.  

    by BarbinMD on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:12:53 PM PDT

•  I am glad I moved to CT

  I have been waiting for August 8th like a young boy waiting for the post-prom nookie.  I am sure I will make a mess in my pants when I pull that Lamont lever.  Good riddance Joe "lips to Shrubs ass" Lieberman.

  by glazeone on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:12:10 PM PDT

  •  I hate you

    Why can't I have any fun this election season? It's f*c*ing unfair!

    by matt n nyc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:20:55 PM PDT

    •  CT needed me more than King County, WA

      You are just 30 miles away from CT, you can always drive to the polls and heckle people.  That would be fun, too?

      by glazeone on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:25:59 PM PDT

      •  Plus, Madison is too repub. I aim to change that

        by glazeone on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:29:19 PM PDT

•  Polling outfits usually don't identify themselves

  It's par for the course if the polling company didn't tell you who's behind it. The same thing happened to me last year in a local poll (for just the town's first selectman race!). I found out later that the Democrats were running it, but at the time the pollster wouldn't tell me.

  Joe is really pulling out all the stops on this one, isn't he? Every Rove trick in the book. Every attack method possible. He's in the fight of his life. We shouldn't expect him to go without a fight. Particularly since he's very comfortable fighting and attacking other Democrats - it's when he fights Republicans that he keeps the gloves on.

  by OrangeCtDem on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:32:51 PM PDT

  •  This was his opportunity

    to embrace the democratic process and the opportunity to persuade nutmeggers he is worthy of their support.  Instead, he has turned the question around to whether they are worthy of him.

    He's a fool. No other way to see it. IMO

    by Clem Yeobright on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:37:11 PM PDT

  •  Pulling out all the stops?

    No, I don't think so.

    Wait till Dear Old joe runs as an Independent and learns he's trailing. Then the real fun begins.

    by Scarce on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 05:55:08 PM PDT

  •  Yeah, but I always ask for the full name

    and spelling of the company and a contact number of the polling company conducting it. This would be good for this sort of diary so we could dig some more after the fact to find out what's going here.

    Mitch Gore

    Wanna win in '08...?

    Put your money where your mouth is.

    by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:01:47 PM PDT

    •  I have the pollering company's phone number that

      they used.  My caller ID shows [phone]

      by Larksour on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 08:12:56 PM PDT

      •  Reverse lookup

        I tried a reverse lookup on this number and all I got was this:

        [phone] is a land line based in Provo, UT
        The registered service provider is Electric Lightwave**.
        Detailed listing information is not available.

        by Maura in VA on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 09:04:46 PM PDT

        •  Hmmm

          Doing some more googling on that number.. and it seems to be a company called Western Wats who claims to be the leading provider of survey research data collection.

          Now get this... (from Seven Days via Progressive America):

          Seven Days identified the firm that called Ruffle as Western Wats, an independent market-data collection firm based in Orem, Utah, which also does political polls. In 1996, according to the Washington Post, then-Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole admitted that his campaign had hired Western Wats to push-poll 300 to 600 Iowa voters during the Republican primary against rival Steve Forbes.
          [...]

          When contacted by Seven Days, Robert Maccabee, director of client services for Western Wats, initially denied that his company was conducting a "study" in Vermont. However, confronted with the name of the Western Wats employee who spoke with Ruffle, Maccabee amended his response to: "We can neither confirm nor deny that we are doing that study." Asked if he could provide a list of questions being asked of Vermonters, he said, "Absolutely not. All the surveys we do are completely confidential and proprietary."

          So we possibly have a company that previously did push-polling for Bob Dole in 1996, now making push-poll calls against Lamont and for Lieberman.... can others here dig some more?

          Mitch Gore

          Wanna win in '08...?

          Put your money where your mouth is.

          by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:38:13 PM PDT

      •  You got the same push-poll

        Calls as this diarist?

        Mitch Gore

        Wanna win in '08...?

        Put your money where your mouth is.

        by Lestatdelc on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 11:48:06 PM PDT

•  i wish they would call me

  i would give them an ear full. i registered as a dem just so i could vote against holy joe. now i am reaally excited to vote for ned. funny how that works...

  by simplypete on Wed Jun 28, 2006 at 06:26:56 PM PDT

•  I voted

  "the candidate of my dreams" because he perfectly illustrates the hypocrisy that needs to be challenged and rejected in the party.

  by mbair on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 11:38:32 AM PDT

•  Lamonters are given a loosy/goosy

  script. We ask for the person, introduce ourselves, mention that there will be a senate race on August, ask the person if they have any preference for Lamont or Lieberman, and then, if asked for further information (topic, interest), we then continue the conversation.

  Few if any hang up, and there are no bad feelings.
  So conversational - I'm caught up with some old friends, and made many new ones.

  Very respectful, very friendly, extremely successful.

  by Sprinkles on Thu Jun 29, 2006 at 02:40:19 PM PDT