Daily Kos

YOYO: Debt Collection

Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:02:06 PM PDT

YOYO is, of course, Jared Bernstein's description of our current economic culture: You're on your own. Bernstein's is a more succinct way of saying that, under republican rule, we've adopted the philosophy of privatizing the profit and socializing this risk.

Under YOYOism, whatever economic challenges we face as a nation--globalization, health care, inequality--the best solution is for people to fend for themselves. Its central goal is to shift economic risks from the government and corporations onto individuals and their families. You can see this beneath the surface of almost every recent conservative initiative: Social Security privatization, personal accounts for health care, attacks on labor market regulations, and the perpetual crusade to slash the government's revenue through regressive tax cuts--"starving the beast"--and block the government from playing a useful role in our economic lives.

Please follow me below the fold to look at the YOYO theory and debt collection.

In an era that disdains regulation, and with bankruptcy relief further out of reach, it should come as no surprise that debt collectors are increasingly engaging in unseemly tactics.  The New York Times ran a story about a week ago detailing some of those tactics and, citing the number of complaints to the FTC, reported that complaints about debt collectors are up almost 600 percent since 1999.

In its most recent annual report on the act, the [Federal Trade] commission identified tactics that have become particularly common: misrepresenting the nature, size and status of a debt; making constant harassing and abusive phone calls at all hours; contacting a debtor's relatives, employers and neighbors; failing to investigate claims by consumers that a debt is paid, expired or fraudulent; and threatening to sue or seek prosecution. (Such threats are illegal unless the collector has both the legal basis and the intent to take such action.)

Another story gave some vivid examples of what debt collectors will do:

"I've had them call my clients and call them every name in the book, you bitch, you (expletive) whore, you need to get on a boat and `go back to china' to `go back to Africa'," said Sonya Smith-Valentine, a consumer law attorney.

In one outrageous example, a collector for a funeral home threatened, to "rip the bodies" of the plaintiff's parents out of the ground, "put them on his lawn..." and chop their heads off.

The NYT piece also makes reference to a suit Eliot Spitzer brought last month against "a national debt collection company, accusing it of trying in thousands of cases to collect on debts that could not be verified." It's likely they're referring to the action against Boyajian Law Offices and JBC & Associates, which has been calling me, even though I don't have a single unpaid debt.

But I don't live in New York, so Spitzer's actions will do me little good. I live in Ohio, a state with an attorney general who moved for sanctions against attorneys who brought legal challenges regarding the 2004 election.

Indeed, many states are either in denial about aggressive and fraudulent debt collection activities or have, implicitly, embraced them.

There's an alarming increase in the privatization of bad check prosecution. Called "check diversion" programs, local district attorneys are contracting with private debt collectors to chase down citizens who wrote bad checks. These outfits go after not just the unsympathetic folks who knowingly write rubber checks, but also people who've just made a mistake -- a mistake for which they might pay dearly. And at the federal level, the IRS has begun the process of hiring private collection agencies.

If government at all levels is depending on privatized debt collection, what are the odds they'll protect us from the unscrupulous? The New York Times piece cited above gives a clue because it falls into line against the people suffering from this bad behavior:

Eric M. Berman, a lawyer in Babylon, N.Y., and an officer of the National Association of Retail Collection Attorneys, whose members represent creditors, said complaints filed with the government were not always legitimate. For example, he said, some debtors complain when debt collectors will not accept partial payments on the same installment terms that the original lender provided, a practice that may be frustrating to the debtor but is legal.

"People need to get much more education about credit accounts and what they're getting into," Mr. Berman said. "In addition, there are a small minority who are scammers -- people who will run up credit with no intent of paying it and then try to negotiate their way out of it.

Yes, like the endless laments that our bankruptcy laws had to be reformed because of all the deadbeat filers, the Times gives credence to the notion that it's not the debt collectors who are bad, but the alleged debtors, all of whom, apparently, are on their own.

Tags: YOYO economics, Debt, privatization (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 22 comments

  •  Student loan debt collection agencies are (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    VetGrl, roboton, docangel

    the worst. See this link: www.studentloanjustice.org

    •  Student Loan Co (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      VetGrl

      Garnished my wages for 8 months.

      But then agan, I dared them to...

      Say No to Spineless Democrats!

      by roboton on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:52:25 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  question (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        VetGrl

        How did you get them to stop?  Was the garnishment satisfied?  I have a friend in similar situation and the only way to stop it from what she says is to agree to a payment plan that is actually higher each month than the garnishment is.

        When do I get to vote on your marriage?

        by tvb on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:57:39 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly. (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          VetGrl, Gegner

          They wanted me to pay it off in full. I told them I wouldn't pay them a dime. They threatened a 10% garnishment. I told them "Bring it on". They did. My children ate less food for a year as they took 200 dollars a month.

          My biweekly paycheck fell below the amount of my mortgage. I fell behind on the house payment. Now I am  most likely going to lose my house.

          I am not amused with life right now.

          Say No to Spineless Democrats!

          by roboton on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 10:11:14 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Did you honestly take out the loan, though? (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            VetGrl

            Or did you fall into rought times? I don't want to judge you; but, if you are simply refusing to pay the loan because you don't want to, that's why it is harder for borrowers who legitimate financial problems due to prolonged unemployment, disability, and/or catastrophes from finding relief.

            •  They took 10% for a year, (0+ / 0-)

              and that reduction in pay caused me to fall so far behind on my house payment that I am two weeks away from my house being auctioned off.

              I could not afford to pay them anything.

              Say No to Spineless Democrats!

              by roboton on Tue Jul 11, 2006 at 08:26:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  They can terrorize deliquent borrowers (4+ / 0-)

        any and all ways possibles. Changes in the bankruptcy laws enacted by Congress in the late 1990s give them free reign to seize any and all sources of income from deliquent borrowers. Those new laws make it all but impossible to eliminate student loan debt through bankruptcy. The student companies can garnish wages, capture income tax refunds, revoke professional licenses, and tack on late fees onto the principle. This, in turn, leads to larger balances and interest rates. Per a recent Supreme Court decision they can even raid the SSI checks of disabled borrowers.

        60 minutes recently aired an interesting story on the student loan industry. They profiled Sallie Mae. Originally chartered by Congress to be a quasi-public company, Sallie Mae provided loans to college students because traditional banks were reluctant to do so. These banks viewed college students to be too much of a credit risk. So Sallie Mae was created to fill in that gap. Furthermore, to entice prviate lenders into the market, Congress provided federal guarantees to the companies. Thus, if a student defaults, the taxpayers bail out Sallie Mae and other loan companies with principle and interest.

        However, in the 1990s, Sallie Mae finally became a private corporation and ended its relationship with the federal government. At the same time the company acquired numerous collection agencies. So now the company not only provides loans, but also operates collection agencies.

        Thus, now when John Q student defaults, the following takes place. Sallie Mae first receives the unpaid principle and interest from the taxpayers. Then it sells the non-performing loan to its collection agency subsidaries. So, at that point, Sallie Mae has every weapon possible in its arsenal to terrorize deliquent borrowers. They can tack on fees and penalties onto the principle, which can easily capitalize the interest. Thus, borrowers on hard times can easily fall further back. And because student loans have no statute of limitations these debts never go away.

        Of all the debts to eliminate first, student loans should take precedence over even high-interest credit card balances. While credit card debt can be eliminted in bankruptcy, eliminating student loans is almost impossible. To do so requires passing the Brunner Test, which has three prongs. To discharge a debt a borrower has to meet all three prongs. They are:

        1. That the borrower cannot pay all of his expenses with the loan;
        1. That the borrower's earning situation and income potential are not likely to improve for the forseeable future;
        1. That the borrower has made a good-faith effort to repay the loan.

        The only way that a loan can be cancelled is with the declaration of total disability. But even then getting a doctor to meet the standards is very hard. And unless the borrower is permanently disabled and completely unable to work, Sallie Mae will not discharge the loan.

        So they have every means possible to seize deliquent balances. They have free reign to get ugly. While I agree that students who can pay should honor their obligations, there should be some mechanism for those who fall on hard times, become disabled, suffer medical problems, or experience a natural disaster.

    •  This makes me wonder... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      VetGrl, docangel

      Is going into student debt a good idea for anything except about a dozen or so majors and career paths that reliably get people jobs that pay well enough to offset graduation in debt?  Some of the stories posted on that site are tragic on way too many levels.

      •  I don't know (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        VetGrl

        I regret going to graduate school. But for a BA the debt load, while still a lot, isn't as anywhere near horrendous as if you go law, medical, MBA, or graduate school.

        •  But that's exactly my point. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          VetGrl

          Costs are definitely huge for programs like law or medical, but their graduates earn a lot more than 30k per year that quite a few BA grads have to settle for (when they manage to find a job, that is).  Even a relatively small debt can spiral out of control if there is no steady and adequate income.

          •  Tell me about it (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            VetGrl

            I went for an MA. I am still relatively recently out of school. It hasn't translated into any career benefits for me (yet). I've heard that it helps and provides advantages later in one's career. It enables promotion to higher level positions.

            The hardest problem that I've had is finding positions. I'm "too qualified" for entry-level positions, but don't have "enough experience" for higher-level positions. It sucks.

  •  YOYO vs. WITT (3+ / 0-)

    Thank you for bringing this to our/my attention since I had not heard this before. It's clear to my that the YOYO mentality is what drives many conservatives who believe they are caring, compassionate people.  It gives permission for people to reframe their own selfishness in laudable terms.

    When one tries to suggest that WITT is what has made America great, the standard response is that we are trying to introduce socialism.

    As to the bill collectors. We had a situation where a d.c. was going after us rather relentlessly for an old hospital bill that had actually been paid.  We pressed them to give us the documentation that showed it was outstanding and when they couldn't, we had to get fairly aggressive with them to get them to leave us alone.

    Author, DOUBLETHINK: A Tale of Unintended Consequences

    by JESchwartz on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:30:11 PM PDT

  •  It's remarkable that in just a handful of (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    docangel, tvb, yoduuuh do or do not

    comments, there are two more stories of abusive tactics by debt collectors.

    Lord, how we need a change in leadership in this country!

    Courage has nothing whatever to do with testicles.

    by VetGrl on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:40:37 PM PDT

  •  Interesting. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    VetGrl, tvb

    I have until August 1 to cough up 3000 dollars or my house is going to be auctioned out from underneath me.

    I am thinking chapter 7 and fuck it.

    Say No to Spineless Democrats!

    by roboton on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:48:30 PM PDT

    •  asdf (4+ / 0-)

      You do what you gotta do and go for it. I did a chapter 7 right before the law changed (and diaried about it here) due to medical bills.  The silence of my phone has never been louder and I'm no longer afraid to answer the phone.

      When do I get to vote on your marriage?

      by tvb on Mon Jul 10, 2006 at 09:50:58 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  bankruptcy (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      VetGrl

      won't wipe out student loans. See jiacinto's long comment above--he's right in what he says, which is the same as what I experienced and what my lawyer told me. I filed for bankruptcy about a decade ago, and it was a relief to get out from the debt, but my student loan was merely put on hold for several years during my debt restructuring phase, and when I had to start repaying it again five years later, the amount I owed had actually doubled due to the interest that had accumulated during those five years in which I made no payments.

      If at all possible, you're better off selling your house yourself and paying off what you can with the proceeds, rather than letting someone else control your life and money through garnishments and foreclosure. Take charge of your own life.

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