Daily Kos

Teaching Religion in Schools Article in WSJ - calling bullshit

Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 09:36:32 AM PDT

Seems that the WSJ wants to help the GOP with more talking points and propaganda, so they have come through with this doozy of an article talking about religion in early textbooks for school children.  

This gem helps set the tone:

The schoolbooks used by early Americans were supposed to teach literacy and knowledge, but they also had a broader purpose: to create a national character, instilling children with a belief in God and a moral code appropriate to the pious citizens of a new republic. While learning to read, students also had to absorb messages about religion, patriotism and other virtues, such as thrift, diligence and honesty.

National character, eh?  A "moral code appropriate to the pious citizens of a new republic?"

The columnist, Cynthia Crossen, cites two volumes of scholarship, Ruth Miller Elson's groundbreaking work Guardians of Tradition: American Schoolbooks of the Nineteenth Century and Michael V. Belok in "Forming the American Minds, as a paintbrush to flavor the article in positive and generalized  terms.    She goes on to use two quotes from the books to paint a picture that would lead one to believe that these works POSITIVELY support the religious component her article purports.  To me, that is blatant twisting of the facts to suit the article, and a sly way to make it look as though these historians are supportive of a generalized religious teaching in public schools.  Further examination shows that there is much more to these works than Crossen bothered to go into.  Elson's book found that:

...an evangelical Protestant worldview pervaded U.S. history, social studies and literature texts long after the country had become religiously pluralistic. Only Protestant contributions to history and literature were recognized. All other religious traditions were ignored, or, worse, denigrated. Even geography texts clearly preferred Protestant to Catholic or Eastern Orthodox countries. They were seen to be industrious and cultivated.

Hmmm.  Much like the Religious Right wants to do today by marginalizing other religions and forcing their particular religious and moralistic viewpoint upon the rest of us. Many Evangelical Christians really do feel that part of the practice of their faith is to bring the word of God to non-believers and the unsaved. They do call their opponents godless and attack them. They are intolerant, they do engage in finger-pointing, and they do back it all up with their faith. In their Churches they do claim that their opponents are destroying the moral fabric of their society. Is this what we want to go back to?  One of the very reasons religious teachings were phased out of school was because of the rise of religious pluralism in America.  This forced the powers that be to rethink the fact that there were many students who didn't subscribe to the to the W.A.S.P way of thinking and begin down the road of inclusiveness for ALL students.  There is certainly no tacit support in Elson's book for this columnist to have used a quote to back up her thinly-veiled bias.

As for Belok's book, several historian reviews of the work feel that Belok did not achieve his intended goal by backing up many of his assertions throughout the book.  Reviewer Richard Edward Kelly wrote:

Unfortunately, Belok has done far less "to fill part of the knowledge gap in this area" or to "shed some light on the role school-books play in nation-building" than his self-assertions would suggest.  The goals were worthy, but only to a very limited extent were they achieved.

I'm not so certain, had Crossen did a better research job, would she have chosen to use his book to provide a quote for anything, since it can be possibly dismissed as not having made the grade in terms of peer review.

It is true that even after the adoption of the Constitution in 1787 and the Bill of Rights (which includes the First Amendment) in 1791, Protestantism continued to enjoy a favored status in some states. But not all.  What doesn't seem to be touched upon in the article is the fact that much of the discussion throughout the 19th century regarding religious education in schools relates to the fact that many of these primers used by school children served dual purposes, regular studies and Sunday School itself due to costs of printing and costs of owning multiple books by families at that time.  The distinction is an important one, because the article implies in no uncertain terms that religious teachings were the norm in the classroom, and this simply is a falsehood. Context is everything, and the obvious slant in the article is disturbing.

Playing loose and hard with the facts does not a well-researched article make.  Writing propaganda in the form of a "balanced" article (read: fluff piece) is at best underhanded and one-sided.

Call Cynthia out on this and make your thoughts known...

Cynthia.Crossen@wsj.com

Tags: Religion, Wall Street Journal, religious teaching in schools (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 87 comments

  •  Actually, if it meant getting (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    serrano, libertyisliberal

    more American children to have th ecommon experience of public schools and got parents and tax payers to pay to improve public schools, I don't see why we can't have academics teach about world religions and theology and allow clergy of all faiths to have a voluntary class at the end of school teaching their religion.

    West Michigan Rising the new blog for progressives to build our left coast -- now live

    by philgoblue on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 09:28:05 AM PDT

    •  Right (5+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MadRuth, fritzrth, HK, Brubs, libertyisliberal

      But the problem is that few parents are agitating for such teaching; instead, in some communities, there is a lot of demand by parents indoctrinate all children (not just their own) in the local majority religion.  Teaching a neutral survey of religion in that kind of environment is rather unlikely.

      •  Yes, it's fraught with potential problems (0+ / 0-)

        but getting public school to be something Americans have in common as a background and belief in communal institutions is worth the potential problems.  And it would have to be very closely regulated.  But yea, in many places there will be problems.  I just think the rewards outway the risks.

        West Michigan Rising the new blog for progressives to build our left coast -- now live

        by philgoblue on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:06:16 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Sure--As Long as it's Universal (8+ / 0-)

      but these guys don't want that!!!  They prefer to demonize Buddhism, and Hinduism, and Islam, and all of the other "heathen" religions.  Their whole point is that they've got the whole answer---no tolerance allowed!!!

      •  Comparative Religions (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        fritzrth, serrano, hypersphere01

        I took a Comparitive Religions class at a liberal arts college known and though most of the students were very open to learning about many faith traditions, several "christians" in the class were extrememly uncomfortable even HEARING about what other people believe, and would argue immediately if any of their beliefs were challenged. The professor never meant to challenge anyones beliefs, but these students simply felt challenged by being confronted with information that didn't fit THEIR tradition.
        Needless to say, they dropped the class.

        "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

        by valleycat on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:03:40 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  And therein (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mini mum, fritzrth

          lies the the heart of the issue for me personally.

          There seems to be a desire to go back to a time when one school of thought was taught, and others were dismissed.  Many (not all) evangelical christians are so brainwashed regarding thier beliefs that there simply isn't any room for divergence.

        •  So Much 4 Their Interest (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          mini mum, fritzrth

          in a genuine "liberal" education, huh?  

        •  The only reason for a comparative religion course (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          valleycat

          is to compare evangelical protestant Christianity to all other traditions and show why they all fall short of being the one true religion. /snark

          noli, amabo, verberare lapidem ne perdas manum -- Plautus

          by fritzrth on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:09:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  snark aside (0+ / 0-)

            you are actually hitting the nail right on the head. I truly think that these kids thought thats what was meant by "comparative" religions. sad.

            "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

            by valleycat on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:40:33 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Similar story... (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          fritzrth, Brubs, hypersphere01

          Back about 12 or 15 years ago, the rural public school my mother in law taught at allowed an after school "religious studies" club.  Now, this was in a small town made up of mainly Catholics, Methodists, Lutherans and a few fundie/evangelical types.  I seriously doubt if there is a Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, etc., child living anywhere near the vicinity.  So, what happened?  It turned out to be more than these "Christian" kids could handle.  Very quickly it evolved into a "who is going to hell" debate.  A lot of name calling took place, it bled over into the regular academic day...parents on all sides were irate and teachers complaining.  The "club" had to be discontinued, needless to say.

        •  I teach a world history survey (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Ed Tracey

          at a small Catholic college and I've never had one student drop my class because of religious disagreements (and as a Stoic myself, I am fair to all religions from Mithras to Islam to Daoism, etc).

          With the proper faculty this good be an incredible success.  Yes, it's outside-the-box thinking, but that's a good thing.

          West Michigan Rising the new blog for progressives to build our left coast -- now live

          by philgoblue on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:34:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Catholics (0+ / 0-)

            from my experience, most practicing Catholics are a little more flexible in hearing about other religons. The problems I witnessed were from those who only identified themselves as "christian."
            As a Catholic myself, what suprised me most was that I developed a keen interest and appreciation for Islam, particularly in it's more mystical practices. These kids were simply not interested in hearing about anything that didn't support their narrow spiritual woldview.

            "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

            by valleycat on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:39:35 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  No Religious Groups Are Tolerant To One Idea (0+ / 0-)

              They they may be ... all of them ... every single one ... completely and utterly wrong about everything.

              It's the one point that's not open to discussion, I don't care what diety they kneel to.

              •  you know very, very little and insist (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                awakenow

                on reminding people of that far too constantly.

                West Michigan Rising the new blog for progressives to build our left coast -- now live

                by philgoblue on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:56:59 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  Bullshit (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                philgoblue

                If I die tomorrow and find out that it was all a lie, I won't regret for one second that I "wasted" my life by choosing faith. If you spent any time actually trying to ENGAGE people of faith in discussion intead of flinging insults, you'k know that.

                Of course there are close minded people out there, and I think your comments in this diary prove that it is irrelevant whether they are religious or not.

                "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

                by valleycat on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 11:03:44 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Mother Theresa (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  fritzrth

                  If you read (I'm sure you didn't) any of the the diaries published after Mother Theresa's death, you'd see that even she struggled with her faith and wondered if God even existed. To have true faith is to struggle. Those that are certain (of anything, really) are usually full of shit.

                  "Murder, considered a crime when people commit it singly, is transformed into a virtue when they do it en masse." St. Cyprian (200-258)

                  by valleycat on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 11:06:26 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

              •  to paraphrase xenophanes... (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Monique Radevu

                to a horse, god looks like a horse...

                They they may be ... all of them ... every single one ... completely and utterly wrong about everything.

                •  depends on 'bandwidth' (0+ / 0-)

                  I commented on this before:
                  Any narrow ideology is antagonistic
                  to any truth which contradicts its assumptions.

                  The narrowest beliefs are hostile to any truth which even tests their assertions.

                  This is why I love, fiercely love, what is really so rather than what is convenient or useful or will ingratiate or what I am TOLD to believe without reference to fact ... what passes any test but the only one that ultimately matters.

                  "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."

                  Galileo Galilei

                  Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                  by Monique Radevu on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 02:10:34 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  the problem is that (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    Monique Radevu

                    what is really so gets awfully fuzzy once we wander outside the stricter sciences. and while the sciences can answer many important questions- evolution, global warming, etc.,- so many of the bigger questions will always elude science's grasp.

                    needless to say (i assume)- i love your fierce seeking...

                    •  You're asking me to reread Hume? (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      Turkana

                      & let us now both praise that hidden pearl: truthful, yet difficult, the oft fuzzy fog of reality over over-lit Orwellian certainty.

                      I personally can live with the realities of juggling a pluralism of sometimes incommensurate values & stubbornly incompatible facts, but it's hard to live with the (often misogynist) life-hating whackos who can't.

                      You (unintentionally?) passed over, were silent on one entire vista, abandoned an armory so to speak - relentless questioning & the presentation of contradictory empirical data PREVENT us from deluding ourselves with comfortable notions. Galileo opened the largest possible can of worms - if the geocentric model is replaced by a heliocentric one, then the nitpickingly literal truth of the Book is undemonstrated & the temporal authority & privilege of the One Apostolic Church is weakened, much as the incursion of Islam in Java undermined the credibility/authority of the Hindu priests & courts, causing their flight to Bali & the fall of the Majapahit Empire 5 centuries ago.

                      Of course the salutary benefits were with the former the explosion of science, technology & medicine that has brought the Space Age & the externalization of the human nervous system into worldwide communication networks ...& with the latter, the development of one of the most distinctive, extraordinary cultures in world history, every daily act done & thing made, done & made in the most beautiful way, in gratitude for & in harmony with Life: culture itself as a work of art.

                      The Invisible Pink Unicorn & the Flying Spaghetti Monster skewer the Big Daddy watchmaker First Cause dogma & its logical consequence of top-down ethics - abandoning that model forces us to freedom in the language of existentialists- but I prefer to say "be self-navigating: reason without fear" (self-integrative superego functioning - each of us our own master).

                      There are easy answers to the bigger questions eg the anxious conformist's fave: "The C-i-C knows what he's doing, let's just let him get on with his job!"; do I really need to quote JS Mill or Berlin's cautions about capitulation to Authority for you at the requisite length? (note I'm slyly trying to get away with an "appeal to authority" wheeze here, although it is true that Mill & Berlin have relevant & useful arguments in this regard blah blah; blah! Blah? But surely blah if blah? given blah blah... see unending blah ibid cf vid blah.

                      Since I'd made my point probably, I hope you'll E X C U S E   M E !  my stevemartin juvenile blahblahblahs; sigh* Why must hopelessly old fogies doddering in their 40s & 50s so often need the patient intruction of young people to help them see these simple things? honestly! & stop walking near my lawn with yer hootenannies & weird hair!

                      ;-)
                      Have a good one, ya misguided ole f*rt,
                      & don't take any restaurant roadkill,
                      especially if it's sold as filet mignon!
                      love,
                      Monique  (or my rapper ID: eminqueue!)

                      Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                      by Monique Radevu on Tue Aug 29, 2006 at 11:53:55 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  as for the old f*rt part... (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        Monique Radevu

                        i actually got carded at a liquor store two days ago! was only buying candy for the road, but he said no one under 21 is allowed in the store. i stared at him, baffled, not sure whether he was f*cking with me or joking- he was absolutely serious!

                        the rest i will try to address later- after 2 gents- depending on the erratic access.  

                        but nothing wrong with revisiting hume- i like, even if kant dint. and i respect no authoritah unless it can prove it be no cartoon. the best take on that particular bush-league dynamic being fyodr's "grand inquisitor," or- as distilled by a certain well-known writer:

                        The people, the common people must know, must see. There are rare traditions of liberty to defend. The tradition of liberty is old. The common people will let it grow old, yes. They will sell liberty for a quieter life- that is why they must be led, driven, pushed.

                        and no road-kill on the menu- haven't eaten meat that wasn't from the water since before you was conceived...

                        •  eh? watcha say? can't hear til I put in my teeth (1+ / 0-)

                          Recommended by:
                          Turkana

                          Hope my point was clear - better to "know that you do not know what you don't know" (Confucius quoted by Thoreau) than to swallow some Falwell/Mehlman/Khomeini/ObL Bu**sh**.

                          now, quit playing near my lawn! with your modern a-go-go disco hops!

                          eminqueue

                          ps: rec me for darwin's sake; this is a lot of typing!

                          m

                          Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                          by Monique Radevu on Tue Aug 29, 2006 at 03:36:54 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  didn't know (1+ / 0-)

                            Recommended by:
                            Monique Radevu

                            i had to "pay" for your attentions...

                            •  new in town? (1+ / 0-)

                              Recommended by:
                              Turkana

                               title=

                              Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                              by Monique Radevu on Tue Aug 29, 2006 at 06:55:18 PM PDT

                              [ Parent ]

                              •  girls, girls, girls (0+ / 0-)

                                let me tell you a story...

                                just over a year ago, we befriended a stunningly beautiful young norwegian law student. she's smart, funny, gentle, soft-spoken, cute, kind- just wonderful. and, of course, she's also very low-key and understated- dresses simply, no jewelry, no makeup...

                                a few weeks ago, i was "chatting" with her on skype, discussing good names for babies, and she said she really likes the name teri hatcher gave to her child. i said i didn't want to know how she knows the name of teri hatcher's child. she said, yeah, it's probably best that i don't know...

                                so...

                                similarly...

                                i find it amusing that a brilliant young woman like yourself should want to model her "hot babe"ness after a vapid young hollywood starlet...

                                as for the above themes of this thread:

                                being a fan of bohr, i believe no one scientific equation or theory, and probably no single religion, can encompass all that i would regard as "meaning." complementarity. a kaleidoscoping mosaic of structures and mystical experiences, and all sorts of other stuff. like looking at a pollack, or a rothko, or like listening to the best jazz or improvisational rock 'n' roll- even the search for "truth" or "meaning" is best pursued by loosening the bonds of rationality and literalism- taking them as part of the pastiche- but not relying on a single tradition or even faculty. like looking at the dimmest stars- it all becomes more clear the less intensely you focus on it. this is one of the main themes of my play- the religious yearning for scientific absolutes- and that meaning means different things to different people...

                                •  hmm.. (1+ / 0-)

                                  Recommended by:
                                  Turkana

                                  Hope you realize I joke a fair bit?

                                  ...& do understand that "reason w/o fear" as a life motto fits like a convicting glove with being a self-legislating woman; I learn from all & every ... & choose what glows golden for my life. (the Balinese call this 'campur'- proncd. 'chahmPUURR')

                                  & as far as joking/dancing-life-lightly goes, if you join Cheers & Jeers tomorrow a.m., know the guest host (oxymoron) will be doggie; Wednesday is Humpday ... doggie style. I am sanguine Irishkorean has the inappropriate images stacked up like planes over O'Hare...

                                  Elisha seems pretty sweet & her beauty should be honoured; 'vapid' is misreading (although she's never been cast in a witty script). & where in the Talmud is this law that everyone that brings me a smile be pre-selected by Princeton?

                                  The clear eye of Canadian-ness innoculates one (her, me) from taking overblown US jingoism & celebrity-fawning too seriously, among other known USian psychic virii ... Latvians, like Finns, have a firm notion of how not to be Russian; Danes not German, Welsh have this advantage over the English, so Canadians have a twinkle they decline, with maddening politeness, to translate.

                                  As for the balance of reason & passion, self-division's cause, my Himalayan post upthread registers an admiration for BOTH post-Galilean science AND Bali, work of art. You often don't realize when you're pushing on an open door!

                                  ("passion & reason"- see Fulke Greville's poem that prefaces Huxley's Point Counterpoint)

                                  Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                                  by Monique Radevu on Wed Aug 30, 2006 at 01:00:28 AM PDT

                                  [ Parent ]

                                  •  and i hope you realize (1+ / 0-)

                                    Recommended by:
                                    Monique Radevu

                                    that i give you an occasional, playful spanking...

                                    but i will not relent on young miss cuthbert- vapid is as vapid does. it's one thing to have an embarrassing fling- or an embarrassing phase- another entirely to make of embarrassing a lifestyle. by way of comparison, the lovely, late, and much lamented, miss stratten arrived in l.a. little more than a nude model, and never did get an acting career off the ground, but somehow managed to meet and fall for bogdanovich. and cuthbert's been more than bringing you a smile, of late- you've been all but channeling her alleged charms...

                                    and, btw- even if it be but of girly silliness, a comparison with our norwegian friend is no insult! although she be riven with insecurities, and prone to depressions, she was, on balance, as impressive a twenty-year old as i've even met! and she stole our hearts within an hour!

                                    as for the rest- yeah, i think we've been essentially lobbing the ball back at each other. we've read many of the same things, and some different, but seem to have drawn many similar conclusions. although, you clearly haven't yet grown into a sophisticated appreciation of eliot...

                                    •  I'll wait for Eliot to do the growing, thank you! (0+ / 0-)

                                      hee hee ...

                                      Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                                      by Monique Radevu on Wed Aug 30, 2006 at 12:57:22 PM PDT

                                      [ Parent ]

                                      •  and i have little doubt (1+ / 0-)

                                        Recommended by:
                                        Monique Radevu

                                        that as you get older, you will find eliot does, indeed, grow...

                                        •  Someday, you'll find more colorful, less careful (1+ / 0-)

                                          Recommended by:
                                          Turkana

                                          more dangerously alive writer-creators- eg, have you explored the multiple personae of Portugal's Fernando Pessoa? Warped, brilliant, marvellous- the Book of Disquiet is Kafka, but something else. Then, there's the unique bizarre restlessness & chance-taking of Witold Gombrowicz...

                                          No one will EVER say that about the stern (so stern & conservative, so needlessly cautious Thomas has two sterns- like punting on first down!)

                                          Angela Carter (surely a genius)? Munro? Atwood? Marguerite Yourcenar (Memoirs of Hadrian)? Isaac Babel? poor crippled Giacomo Leopardi?  Stendahl? Bruno Schulz? di Lampedusa's remarkable evocation of his larger than life ancestor "The Leopard" (il Gattopardo)? (There's a bodice-ripper!) the unique Orkney voice of George Douglas Brown, Johannes Brobowski (Shadowlands)...

                                          Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                                          by Monique Radevu on Thu Aug 31, 2006 at 12:00:10 AM PDT

                                          [ Parent ]

                                          •  mixed bag (1+ / 0-)

                                            Recommended by:
                                            Monique Radevu

                                            i found stendhal emotionally void. atwood is brilliant, and her nobel will come (supposedly, she was on the short short list last year). i find burroughs and berryman and brecht brilliantly dangerous, fuentes overwhelming. but the thing about eliot- he was an uptight midwesterner who became an uptighter brit- but his mind and vision were transcendent- however reactionary his politics and official religious beliefs. his vision terrified him- and in his staid, sterile world, he didn't have the option to eat liberty caps (which grew two blocks from my high school!) and dance naked in seashore moonlight. but he still managed to express a sense of mystical magic that is unsurpassed in its- dare i say it- lucidity!

                                            anyway- i'm seriously exhausted- we saw a matinee of winter's tale, and rsc's adaptation of jekyl & hyde (freud & jones?) this evening. tomorrow, it's king john (one of maybe three or four i haven't seen in a professional production) by day, and a lynn nottage, called "intimate apparel," by night. they did her "crumbs from the table of joy" several years ago, and it was one of the most emotionally powerful plays i've ever seen, anywhere. nine plays in six days...

              •  You've never met Unitarians then - a lot/most (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                philgoblue

                UUs are willing to be skeptical & self-debate about even their most fundamental principles. Didn't know that? Here's some data:

                www.uua.org

                Unitarian_Universalism

                There were a surprising number of well-known progressives who subscribed to Unitarian, Universalist or predecessor beliefs, eg Deism;

                such a list is vast so I'll just mention Thom Paine, Thoreau, Darwin, Florence Nightingale, JS Mill, Julia Ward Howe & many other abolitionists, Clara Barton, Dickens, Susan B Anthony, Roger Baldwin (founder ACLU), Whitney Young, Pete Seeger, Bartok, RVW, Grieg, Frank Lloyd Wright, Buckminster Fuller, Vonnegut, Rod Serling, Bradbury, Groening, Christopher Reeve, Keith Olbermann ...
                a more extensive list or even a vast list

                The Seven Principles of the Unitarian Universalist Association:

                • The inherent worth and dignity of every person
                • Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
                • Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
                • A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
                • The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
                • The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all
                • Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

                Two elevator speeches (thumbnail descriptions) selected from UU World magazine

                "We believe that your spiritual life is personal -- a relationship between the individual and deity, however you define it. Rather than choose your path for you, we provide a safe place for you to discover and pursue your own path." — Lyn Worthen, Salt Lake City, UT

                "Unitarian Universalists believe that all life is sacred, all existence is interconnected, and that justice and compassion must be the foundation of our thoughts and deeds." — Ann Creech, Roswell, GA

                Copyright 2006; "We work to bring the dawn!" -my gran'mère, who (at 15) fought Nazis in occupied France in 1943.

                by Monique Radevu on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 01:49:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  Their First Calling (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        fritzrth

        is to smash the instutition of public schooling.  Hence debacles like "No Child Left Unchristianized."

        Once they force schools into financial ruin there will be no choice but to send our kids to private schools.

        And guess what shining face is going to be hanging on the front frickin door once they get there.

        Clue:  He'll be changing school milk into wine.

    •  Any clergy of any faith, (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      silence, kd texan, vacantlook, Brubs

      can have a voluntary class at their church, synagogue or other house of worship teaching their religion anytime they want to. Catholics and Jews have been offering after-school religious training since before this nation was founded. It is not the job of the government or our public schools.

      noli, amabo, verberare lapidem ne perdas manum -- Plautus

      by fritzrth on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 09:36:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Careful (3+ / 0-)

    Views critical of the faith are not welcome here, as I learned with a quickness last night.

    I'm all for "right to worship."  But I too get my dander up when I see the nonsense of scriptural context being brought into the political square, and public academia.

    But I was given a stern lesson last night that speaking out against religion overtaking our society in places where it does not belong is not "Ok."  Moderate christians may dance about and say it's ok.  But the moment one connects dots between, say for example, war and monotheism - you become the enemy.  Even this very website is a petri dish of just such a passive aggressive bunch.

    Here we are attempting to seize back our government from a theocratic band of lunatics on a website which I THOUGHT was packed to the rim with progressives who understood Jefferson's wall of separation ... and now it turns out every Sunday we'll be treated to the fucking rosary off all vile things!

    I sat down and wrote a 12 paragraph apology for appearing in the diary last night with my views about religion, and its effect on society.  Somehow the diary didn't post properly.

    Maybe it was ... "a god thing."

    Because the more I think about it, the more sorry I'm not.

    Thanks for keeping this topic on the forefront.  There isn't a more important one to be discussed.  Because it's connected to EVERYTHING that's wrong.

  •  I am not sure what your beef is (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    libertyisliberal

    The schoolbooks used by early Americans were supposed to teach literacy and knowledge, but they also had a broader purpose: to create a national character, instilling children with a belief in God and a moral code appropriate to the pious citizens of a new republic. While learning to read, students also had to absorb messages about religion, patriotism and other virtues, such as thrift, diligence and honesty.

    This is true.  I am not saying it is appropriate for now... but it was true then.

    •  The article in its entirety is the beef (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      fritzrth, Skennet Boch

      Perhaps another quote would have set the tone better than the one above.

      •  Non-subscriber link (0+ / 0-)

        It might have helped to provide a non-subscriber link to the article, so that people who aren't WSJ subscribers can read the whole thing.

        To be honest, the article did a good job of explaining how things once were, but didn't do a good job of explaining why things changed, or what the advantages to the change were.

        •  My link works and I'm not a subscriber (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not certain what happened.  Ill change it to yours instead.

        •  The column lacks a point (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          fritzrth, Brubs

          And this is what I told Ms. Crossen when I e-mailed her.  At one point, religion was integrated into the American educational curriculum.  It's not any more.  So what's the point?

          Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

          by mini mum on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 09:59:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Knowing where you've been (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            fritzrth, Brubs

            Knowing that you've done something before, and rejected it, is the beginning of knowing why you shouldn't go back and do it again.

            I'd have really appreciated it if she had included more about why the religious material was taken out of US curriculums.  There's a lot of history about rejecting theocracy that needs to be openly discussed, and she ignores it.

            •  What would have been interesting (3+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              silence, fritzrth, Brubs

              is if Crossen had placed this quote

              The purpose of education, which for many children stopped after elementary school, was to prepare them for life as devout farmers in a frontier democracy.  Only useful knowledge was important, and reading material was supposed to be informative or morally edifying

              in the context of what is considered "useful knowledge" today in our test-heavy educational environment.  This could have been an interesting aside.

              Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

              by mini mum on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:30:31 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  no that's okay (0+ / 0-)

        I have a problem with people trying to chip away at the separation.  But sometimes people like to rewrite history to fit their opinion and I guess I thought you might be doing that.
        Just ignore me.  = )

      •  I don't understand the beef, either... (0+ / 0-)

        ... and I read the article.

        In fact, I think she's largely right. Although the book she quoted may have had other problems, and the article might be used by some people as part of their justification that the separation of church and state are recent inventions, that doesn't make her piece wrong.

        In a practical and local sense, and especially in schools, the separation of church and state is a recent enforcement.

        This is something I know all too well. Growing up in south Alabama in the early 1960's, we frequently had required school assemblies where a local preacher or former football star now part of the Campus Crusade for Christ would rail about how we were all going to hell if we didn't see things exactly the way they intepreted them.

        The most memorable for me was in early 1963, when the required assembly was for some race rabble-rouser preaching about how segregation was God's will, and integration with "nigras" was evil and against his plan, and how Godless Yankees were pushing this on is in a Communistic plan to mongrelize the white race by mixing it with .... you know the whole routine.

        I kept listening to these words that were soooo far from the religion I learned from my mother, that said God loved all of his children, "red and yellow, black and white, they are precious in his sight," and to the specific words (the n-word, especially) that would have my mouth washed out with soap if I had used them. And I just couldn't take it any more.

        I quietly slipped out of my seat, and out the back of the gym/auditorium. As I was walking across the alley back to the classroom building, I heard someone call my name. I stopped and turned, and there was the principal.

        "And just who do you think you are, that you don't have to attend assembly?" he asked sarcastically. "You just turn around and get your ass back in your seat, or I'll warm that ass of yours with the paddle." (I should mention that he hated me anyway, because I was smart and my family was educated and NOT from there, and I actually had ambitions about having a real career not in a small south Alabama town.)

        I thought fast. "I can't," I told him. "I left because I was feeling sick to my stomach."

        "I don't believe you, and you can march into my office right now and get the paddle," he told me.

        That really did scare me, so I threw up on his shoes. And so I escaped the paddling.

        I told my folks about it, and that if he ever really did raise a paddle at me, I wasn't going to take it quietly. They wouldn't have, either, btw, but I was thinking of something forceful and memorable ...

        In any case, that was one of several incidents that brought my family to the decision that ALL of their kids would go to boarding school instead of Monroe County High. All four of us are truly grateful, too.

        But the situation she describes in her article is pretty much the way it was. Local public schools were for the purpose of creating a literate population of farmers and workers, and weren't the same as "real" education for the educated classes.

        And so, sadly, it still is in many areas.

        America will never again be the land of the free... Until she again becomes the home of the brave.

        by Ducktape on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:34:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  They still teach character in school (9+ / 0-)

    As the mom of a soon-to-be-seventh grader, I can attest to the fact that secular public schools are all about teaching character and citizenship.  My criticism with the piece is that it suggests that when they took the god out they stopped trying to teach positive values.  This is not true at all.  Interestingly, most of the christian virtues have their origin with the greeks, so they are easy to teach without invoking Jesus.

  •  Interesting diary. Thanks. (0+ / 0-)

    One question though: do you have a citation for this?

    ...many of these primers used by school children served dual purposes, regular studies and Sunday School...

    There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. -Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

    by slksfca on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 09:58:03 AM PDT

    •  actually (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      fritzrth, slksfca

      My uncle is a professor of early American  History, and in discussing this article with him, this was his input regarding it.  I have emailed him and asked him to send me some documentation to include so I will post that once I get it.

    •  I can attest to this... (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      silence, fritzrth, Brubs, slksfca

      ... from the primers in my childhood home's attics.  3 of my 4 grandparents and my mom were raised in rural areas; their primary textbooks were combined with Protestant stuff.  And some bizarre ideas about Catholicism.

      The remaining grandparent and my dad were both raised "in town".  My father thought my mom was crazy when she claimed they recited the Lord's Prayer every morning in school.  The Jewish kids in her class just sat silently until the rest were done.

      •  I agree about the Protestant slant... (0+ / 0-)

        ...in early textbooks (and, for that matter, recitation of the Lord's Prayer in school); I was just curious to know more about this "dual purpose" concept where the same book was actually used in Sunday Schools.

        There are, in every age, new errors to be rectified, and new prejudices to be opposed. -Samuel Johnson (1709-1784)

        by slksfca on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:35:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  i still have my grandpa's schoolwork (0+ / 0-)

        from the 30's.

        yes, they did use the Bible to teach the children to read and write.  

        the bible was the center piece.

        Don't fight it son. Confess quickly! If you hold out too long you could jeopardize your credit rating. --Brazil (1985)

        by hypersphere01 on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:58:09 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Well, we used to allow (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    fritzrth, esquimaux, hypersphere01

    children to be beaten by sticks at school, too...over time, however, we've decided that wasn't for the best as well.

    My point?  Well, so what?  I'm sure that a lot of things were very different 200 years ago.  Women couldn't vote, remember?  Slavery was legal.  As we our understanding grew, we acknowledged that we are still pursuing a "more perfect union".  

  •  Yes, let's rerun some of the other ... (5+ / 0-)

    ...material in those early textbooks, too, like the adoration of Columbus, the slaughter of Indians, the complete ignoring of slavery, and women's second-class status.

    I am an anti-imperialist. I am opposed to having the eagle put its talons on any other land. -- Mark Twain

    by Meteor Blades on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:26:01 AM PDT

  •  Religious totalitarians (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    silence, fritzrth

    controlled most of the early settlements, and dissenters were routinely forced to leave (in some cases a death sentence).  They fled the intolerance of England so they could create their own intolerance.

    America is now a pluralistic society, and that pluralism is the very reason that religious totalitarians like Osama bin Laden have declared a jihad against us.  They certainly don't envy our freedom like George Tush keeps saying; they hate our freedom, because they see it as license for lewdness and apostasy.  We don't veil our women, we allow gays to live in our midst, and we tolerate religions other than the One True Religion.

    Religious totalitarianism needs to be utterly discredited and destroyed.

    "You can't negotiate with reality" - James Kunstler

    by Bob Love on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:36:08 AM PDT

  •  Vashti McCollum (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    silence, fritzrth, Brubs, hypersphere01

    In 1948, the Supreme Court upheld the separation of church and state in education.  Vashti McCollum filed the lawsuit to stop religious instruction on school property.  She died over the weekend at age 93.

    Her death was confirmed by her son James, whose refusal as a fifth grader to attend voluntary religious instruction led to the lawsuit.

    Mrs. McCollum, who called herself an atheist in Illinois court proceedings but later preferred the word “humanist,” said her son was ostracized and embarrassed by his schoolmates because she refused to let him attend the religion classes at his public school in Champaign. The classes for Protestants were on school premises; Jews and Roman Catholics went to religious buildings elsewhere.

    She also contended that the classes were a misuse and waste of taxpayers’ money, discriminated against minority faiths and were an unconstitutional merger of church and state.

    After losing in two Illinois courts, Mrs. McCollum won an 8-to-1 decision by the Supreme Court. Justice Hugo L. Black, who wrote the majority opinion, said the practice in Champaign was “beyond all question” using tax-established and tax-supported schools “to aid religious groups to spread their faith,” and, he added, “It falls squarely under the ban of the First Amendment.”

    Vashti McCollum's obituary (HT Gen. JC Christian)

    Liberal: "I still think it's a respectable word. Its root is "liber," the Latin word for "free," and isn't that what we are all about?"--Mary McGrory

    by mini mum on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 10:37:45 AM PDT

  •  You act like she "did" research. (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    fritzrth, Brubs

    She probably got he pull quotes in an email, called her co-ordinator and then word-smithed an article with her tone and two-cents.

    It is like when WesPAC sends me an email with some call-to-action letter and I read their spin on the story, add my knowledge, re-write it in my own words and add my personal views and send it.

    Well not "just like" because WesPAC doesn't just make shit up.

  •  As a student of theology, (0+ / 0-)

    I'm basically opposed to incorporating religion into the public school system.

    I do not see what the people who want religion in public schools are afraid of.  I went to public schools, and had Jewish, Roman Catholic, atheist, etc. classmates.  Sometimes, we would talk about these things during this thing called "recess."  Nobody stopped us from comparing views.  One of my Jewish friends even gave me a Hebrew primer and a dredel.  It's not like you can keep religion out of school.  Too many people are religious for that to be possible.  What you shouldn't do, in a public school, is sanction it.  When its a pertinent topic for a history lesson, include it, sure.  Otherwise, let the students hash it out amongst themselves.

Permalink | 87 comments