Daily Kos

Ethical Dilemmas of Israel

Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:17:54 AM PDT

I posted this on an open thread last night because I didn't have the energy to diary it then, but I ran across this Jerusalem Post article yesterday evening.  It is a 3-page op-ed piece entitled "The Ethical Dilemmas of the Jewish State at war."

I post this as a counter to those who assume that the Israeli people are totally insensitive to the body counts or the war.  More below the flip.

This is a new and particularly pernicious type of war.

According to dictionary.com, pernicious means "Tending to cause death or serious injury; deadly."  or "highly injurious or destructive: tending to a fatal issue."  So the piece opens, and I believe that is very accurate.  

For the first time in a long time, the Israeli homeland is coming under direct attack.  1/4 of the country is uninhabitable for reasons of safety.  The piece estimates Hezbollah's arsenal of rockets and missiles at 10,000 to 14,000 pieces with hundreds raining down each and every day.  Where are they coming from?

These thousands upon thousands of rockets are being launched into Israel's towns and villages from the very heart of residential Lebanese neighborhoods, whether with the support or to the dismay of the local populace.

So what can Israel do?  That is the core of the piece.  

But Israel could prevail in this conflict. Israel could silence the Katyusha launchers. What it would need do is resort to one of those two options - a much greater use of air power or a larger ground offensive.

Either of those avenues, however, would necessarily involve death on a far larger scale than we have seen thus far. Pulverizing air power would likely create Lebanese civilian casualties of a number that would dwarf the toll to date.

Israel would "win."  By that, Israel could eliminate the military threat against itself.  However the cost of doing so would be high.  If ground forces were used, then yes, the IDF would suffer high casualties, but before the author even gets into that, the point is acknowledged that there would be massive Lebanese civilian casualties.

Hezbollah has no problem using Lebanese civilians as human shields - Hezbollah does not have to contend with Western ethics and morals as that is not their culture.  Israel is largely founded by Europeans who share common roots with us as far as right and wrong.  

The author continues by pointing out that right now the choice looks to be either dead Lebanese (by increasing the military attacks on Lebanon) or dead Israelis (by allowing the rocket attacks to continue).  So why won't Israel escalate?  Three reasons are listed:

1) A more forceful attack could lead to short term gain and long term loss as Israel finds itself with no international support

2) Israel feels that its responses thus far have not been disproportionate to the attacks - despite what others in the world community and here on dKos may argue.  However, any escalation would be disproportionate response:

That sense of proportion has evidently determined that dozens of deaths at home, hundreds of thousands of fleeing northerners, and 26 days in the bomb-shelters for those who have remained in rocket range justifies the degree and scale of air power that it has employed to date, and no more.

3) The "main limitation" against escalation is Israel's "sense of right and wrong."  Israel doesn't want its troops getting killed or Lebanese civilians getting killed and so doesn't escalate.

The first is practical, the second a balance between practical and ethical, the third strictly ethical.

And then the author gets into one of my pet peeves about Israel - they need to find a better PR firm.  I have often joked that the Israelis and the Democrats both use the same losing PR firm over and over again while the Republicans and Arabs know how to play the game.  Maybe that's just me feeling that way.  

Israel's official public relations performance in the course of this conflict has been, as ever, dire. It has failed to highlight that this is essentially a war against an Iran that publicly demands Israel's destruction. It has failed to effectively articulate how pernicious an enemy it faces - one that strikes Israel's citizens and delights in the fatalities inflicted, then cries foul to a responsive international community when Israel's attempts to stop the fire inevitably cause death and destruction. It has failed even to widely disseminate film that clearly shows where the Katyushas are being fired from; the footage of rockets flying out from Kana was released a full 12 hours after the world had been subjected to graphic coverage of the tragic consequences of Israel's response. It has failed, at the most basic level, to help a watching world differentiate between a guerrilla-terrorist aggressor subjugating Lebanon to its Iranian patron's will and an embattled sovereign nation attempting to protect itself.

A major segment of international media, it should be noted, has emphatically chosen itself not to highlight that distinction - out of a sadly familiar combination of factors including ignorance, intellectual dishonesty, misguided self-perceived liberalism, in some cases anti-Semitism, in others fear for its own wellbeing in Arab host nations.

However the point of my diary isn't the subjective perceptions of slanted media coverage or PR, the point is the debate about the ethics.  I think that greater Israel is torn about how best to conduct itself at this point vis-a-vis the Hezbollah terrorists and is very cognizant of the damage being done to the Lebanese civilians.  I know that if we went by diary count, dKos is pretty squarely in the Arab camp on this issue - I did a diary looking at diary counts a couple weeks ago and the ratio was more than 10:1, and if you throw in the number of pro-Cynthia McKinney diaries that label AIPAC as akin to the devil that would skew it more ;).  I just wanted to post something to counter the perception that the Israelis are just after blood and that they don't care about the Lebanese civilians.  If they didn't care, then this would have been over already.  It's similar to Jenin - the Israelis sent in ground troops and suffered similar casualties as the Palestinians, rather than bomb the snot out of Jenin and take no casualties but kill many innocents.  Didn't help in that case that the media called it a "massacre" when later even the Palestinians claimed it as a military victory over Israel.

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Have you posted any diaries on the Middle East in the last 2 months?

27%3 votes
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  •  Tip Jar (8+ / 0-)

    Although I will honestly admit I'm more focused on Connecticut than Israel today, I enjoyed the article...

    -Fred

    Democrats *do* have a plan for Social Security - it's called Social Security. -- Ed Schultz

    by FredFred on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:12:21 AM PDT

  •  Ethics and morals (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tgs1952, anonymousredvest18

    Just because the ethics and morals of many of the people of Lebanon (BTW there are many Christian Lebanese) are not based in the "western" tradition does not mean that they do not have ethics and morals.

    Your assumption that there is moral constraint on one side only in this conflict is rather disturbing.  

    Lying can never save us from another lie - Vaclav Havel

    by Muwarr90 on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:17:11 AM PDT

    •  I said Hezbollah not Lebanese... (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      mole333, mgoltsman, TrentinaNE, Buddha Hat

      and my intent was to point out the difference, not to say that one side was lacking.

      The Arab peoples have a different culture and their own set of ethics and morals.  Wasn't trying to say better or worse (although my use of the word "contend" was probably less than ideal).  I think more accurate is to say "different" and to admit that I don't understand them.

      The thrust of the article and my diary is to counter the supposition that Israel is lacking in the ethics/morals department - which seems to be posted here daily in the form of the generic diary "Israel killed XXX Lebanese civilians today, Israel is bad, Israel must b estopped."

      -Fred

      Democrats *do* have a plan for Social Security - it's called Social Security. -- Ed Schultz

      by FredFred on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:43:46 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You should add to your poll (4+ / 0-)

    Yes, my diaries support peace, the innocent victims of war, and policies that promote peace.

    Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity. Horace Mann (and btw, the bike in kayakbiker is a bicycle)

    by Kayakbiker on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:17:38 AM PDT

  •  One ethical perspective (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anonymousredvest18, Kayakbiker, sofia

    From Israel's largest newspaper,Yediot Aharonot, July 30:

    Yesha Rabbinical Council: During time of war, enemy has no innocents

    The Yesha Rabbinical Council announced in response to an IDF attack in Kfar Qanna that "according to Jewish law, during a time of battle and war, there is no such term as 'innocents' of the enemy."

    "All of the discussions on Christian morality are weakening the spirit of the army and the nation and are costing us in the blood of our soldiers and civilians," the statement said.

    ["Yesha" is the Hebrew acronym for "Judea, Samaria and Gaza" -- the occupied West Bank, and Gaza Strip -ed.]

    Those who hear not the music-think the dancers mad

    by Eiron on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 07:18:30 AM PDT

  •  Olmert wanted to be a big swinging dick... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anonymousredvest18, Kayakbiker

    Israel could've removed all the ethical dilemmas simply by negotiating a prisor swap.  But it didn't want to give the perception of a Hizbollah victory.

    The conflict has gone on this long because of one simple reason - egos on both sides!

  •  Reader response to JPost analysis (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anonymousredvest18
    1. Valuing the Lives of Jew Haters

    Peter W. - U.S.A.
    08/08/2006 15:41

    Let's see: Dead Jewish Israeli soldiers versus dead "civilian" Arabs who pray & yearn for the destruction of Israel and thirst for Jewish blood. Some moral dilemma. Only a self-hating country, doomed to extinction, would think this a dilemma

    3

    . dump the ethics
    howard - Israel/USA
    08/08/2006 08:04

    When at war with barbarians, one must reconsider ethics. Our Jewish ethics have screwed us to no end. We should have throw out or massacred every last Pal in the six day war. We should have wiped out Damascas in 73. We should clean out Gaza NOW and the hell with the Lebanese civilians. They were warned, and they must face the consequences.

    Those who hear not the music-think the dancers mad

    by Eiron on Tue Aug 08, 2006 at 08:03:52 AM PDT

  •  What a load of BS (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    anonymousredvest18, Noah in NY

    This is a load of crap.  You make unproven and frankly racist claims about Hezbollah using Lebanese as human shields because "Hezbollah does not have to contend with Western ethics and morals."  You ought to be troll-rated into oblivion for that slime alone (note: yes, Virginia, even brown people outside the West can have morals and ethics that might lead them to protect the helpless).

    But, of course, your hypocracy is shown when you acknowledge the real reasons Israel hasn't expanded its campaign so far.  It is afraid of losing more soldiers and losing world support (being forced to make peace).  Morality has nothing to do with it, it is all tactics (as one might expect in a war).  

    Indeed, this is all based on the premise that Israel knows where rocket launchers are, but they have refrained from attacking them, apparently to spare civilian casualties.  So, we must believe that Israel attacks Syrian vegetable farmers even though they could be hitting rocket launchers.  I'm frankly not buying it.  

  •  THere is too much (3+ / 0-)

    evidence to suggest that the government Israel is does NOT care about innocent civilians, other then froma PR standpoint.(I make no claim about the ISraeli people, since I don't know any).

    Just look at the comments of Mr Haimon the justice minister, who claimed everyone in S.Lebanon was a terrorist. Or the fact that cluster weapons are being used, which are unbelievably innacurate, and will live unexploded munitions in the ground for children to pick up in the future.  Or the multitude of vehicles attacked after Israel recommends civilians flee. The evidence suggests indiscriminate bombing in Sothern Lebanon(Mr Haimon admitted this), and the infrastructure of Lebanon has clearly been intentionally attacked. Any progressive should Cringe When you hear quotes like "nothing in Lebanon is off limits" or "we will set the clock back on lebanon 20 year". This is not the language of people who are concerned about civilians.  

    I hope you don't take this as attack against the Israel people, Alot of the same arguments can be made against the US war against Iraq, and I don't think Americans are evil people, but I do believe they made a huge mistake in supporting the Iraq war.

    •  If you are so ready to condemn Israel (0+ / 0-)

      for disregarding civilians, I will bring to your attention a certain military campaign by the one superpower left standing to liberate a certain oil-rich country. The civilian casualties there are not even counted because "we don't do body counts". And while I have no respect for the current government of the above superpower I KNOW the soldiers are not bloodthirsty savages since they come home to develop a coke habit just so they can quell the memory of what they have seen.

      War is hell. I don't THINK this war needed to be started, but I don't KNOW, and neither do you. Once the war is started, however, it is meaningless to talk about civilian casualties. The worst civilian casualties in military history are the fire-bombing of Dresden and Tokyo and nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and all of those are deemed to have been necessary and justified military operations.

      •  I could'nt disagree more. (0+ / 0-)

        I have been extremely critical of The us government in regards to the Iraqi war.    Nowhere did I claim Israeli solderis are bloodthirsty, but I think pm olmert and his gang are war criminals.  

        According to your logic, since we can never know anything with complete certainty, we should never attack government policy because we really don't know. we should just let Bush Start as many wars as he wants because I really don't know and you really don't know either.

        As for the the fire boming of Dresden/Tokoyo/ and the Nuking of Hiroshima/Nakasaki being widely regarded as justified, I disagree. In america They are widely regarded as justified.  Most people around the world would strongly disagree that it was okay to drop the the abombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  There was no justification for it, none at all.  With the Axis defeated in Europe Japan was in no way a threat to us.  
        Unfortunately too many people have this idealistic view of our side in WW2. Yes, The Fascists were evil people, but that does not mean everything the US/Soviet Union did was justified.

        I can't disagree more about your comment regarding
        civilians. By your logic country A should be allowed to commit genoicide against the citizens of country B "Because war is hell" and these things happen during war.

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