Daily Kos

The Defeatist Democrat Party: A Lib Reality Check

Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:23:48 PM PDT

The defeatists and cut-and-runners in the Democrat Party need to own up to it and admit their true colors.  

Everyone here loves to bash the DLC, but they at least have the virtue of consistency in their fundamental commitment to "staying the course" in Iraq, even at the cost of annoying the lib base through bipartisanship and support for the president.

So I am calling on the the so-called "Democrat Wing" of the Democrat Party here: the Deans, Feingolds, Conyerses, Gores, Kerrys and Kennedys.  And all the liberal Bloggers.  For the good of the country, they need to think hard about what they are saying; support our brave men and women in uniform; stop confirming America's well-founded suspicion that they are simply America-hating cut-and-run defeatists.

Liberal Democrats are defeatists in the public mind NOT because they oppose Bush and his misadventure in Iraq, but because they keep validating the GOP's framing of the debate.  Americans' suspicions are well-founded not because they are true but because they keep hearing the same debate on the same terms.  And they don't like to lose wars.

Most of you probably don't like my use of the phrase "Democrat Party" (or "lib" for that matter), because it's a Republican manipulation of discourse.  So why are Democrats all so blithe about agreeing with the president that we must win the "war" in Iraq, or a grand "war on terror?  How can one fight an abstraction, a feeling?  What territory are we fighting to win in Iraq?  

Iraqis are fighting a civil war, but our troops won their war in 2003.  Since then, they've been an occupation army, doing police work and reconstruction work they were never trained for, without a script, led by the same bunglers who gave us the Katrina response, stuck in a worsening crossfire between faceless sectarian mobs, none of whose interests align with ours.  

This is no longer a war to be "won" or "lost".  The only question is how long we will continue to occupy Iraq, where the only clear consensus from the Prime Minister on down is that our presence is making things worse...and at what further cost over and above the billions of dollars and thousands of Iraqi and American lives.

So, yes: It's time for the true Liberals of the DemocratIC Party to stand up and reject Republican frames across the board.  Don't speak of "the war in Iraq", or of "withdrawal" from the battlefield, anymore than you would speak of the "death tax"  Instead, acknowledge the victory and service already achieved by our troops, most of whom honorably did just what their commanders asked of them, however misguided.  Then let's talk about Republican incompetence, about accountability, about civil war, about permanent bases, and about sensibly ENDING AN OCCUPATION that has become a daily bloodbath.

I've been encouraged recently by the trend toward Democratic unity, and the recent decision by CT voters to oppose rather than emulate the GOP.  Now that we're together, let's stop speaking Republicanese, and take back our damn country.

Tags: dlc, iraq, cut and run, framing, George lakoff, 2006 Elections, Joe Lieberman, Ned Lamont (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 45 comments

  •  t/j (0+ / 0-)

    ...hoping people read all the way thru ;-)

    Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

    by turbonium on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:15:25 PM PDT

  •  Get the fuck out! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Delaware Dem

    At this date, you are running this bs here?

    Dude, read the papers.

    The gOP is gonna get swamped in November.

    Everybody dies alone.

    by Armando on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:17:10 PM PDT

    •  BTW (0+ / 0-)

      Are you a split personality?

      Everybody dies alone.

      by Armando on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:18:10 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  reading is fundamental (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        besieged by bush, NYFM

        Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

        by turbonium on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:19:50 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I liked your piece (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          besieged by bush, NYFM

          And he (Armando) obviously didn't read it.

        •  But ... after three paragraphs ... (0+ / 0-)

          especially on a hectic night, most make up their mind ... I was trying to decide how outraged I'd be before I read through enough to see that I, in the main, find this worthwhile as a discussion ...

        •  I did (0+ / 0-)

          The first part  simply is inconsistent with the second part.

          I hope you can take criticism because there is a lot to criticize in your diary.

          What does the first part have to do with the second?

          How does you r presecription address the first part?

          Do you see how there is a complete disconnect between the two?

          Everybody dies alone.

          by Armando on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:25:30 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Jesus, Armando (0+ / 0-)

            It's a diary, not a dissertation.  It's touching that you're concerned for my fragile ego and mental state--but the fact that you've now spammed my diary with about ten sour-grapes critiques to cover for your initial misread has me worried about yours.  So "framing" is pointless, irrelevant old news to you, not worth discussing?  Fine--don't read about it, don't write about it.

            There was supposed to be a disconnect between the lead-in/hook and the rest.  Sophomoric slurs like "democrat party" are of a piece with terms like "death tax" and "war on terror".  My point, which you've so amply demonstrated, is that we very often react vehemently to the one yet adopt the other unthinkingly, and to our detriment.  Yes, it's a simple argument.  Most political messages are.

            If the "occupation" meme, the idea that our troops long ago accomplished what they were asked to do--and in fact have achieved 'victory' over 3 years ago--is all so bloody obvious that it's taken over Democratic discourse, I guess I've missed it.  Why not take Bush's infamous "Mission Accomplished", the Purple Finger Pageant, and all the rest at face value, and make Republicans defend the ongoing clusterfuck?  AKA, declare victory and go home?

            In any event, I'm sorry my diary was not up to the high standard of writing exemplified in your commentary and personal attacks here.  You're free to dismiss it as banal and repetitive, and indeed you have done so...over and over.

            Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

            by turbonium on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:27:04 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Whoa (0+ / 0-)

              I see you don't take criticism well.

              Carry on.

              Everybody dies alone.

              by Armando on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 11:33:38 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Haven't seen much of it from you (0+ / 0-)

                So far your "criticism" has consisted of an invitation to "get the fuck out", a Fristian diagnosis of schizoid personality, and assertions that my diary obviously "sucked" because you failed to understand it at first, but it's just as well because my point isn't worth making anyhow.  (Does this approach work well for you in court, or are your grace and charm simply hereditary?)

                You did eventually get round to saying you didn't like my transition, apparently because it didn't have neon < /snark > tags to clarify where the parody ended.  I answered your "disconnect" question above, and Irfo and lombard also did a good job summarizing the thesis.

                So I don't know what's left to address. And if the topic isn't even worth dicussing, then I don't understand what you're still doing in my comment thread.  If you've nothing of substance to add, you're certainly free to take the first bit of half-cocked advice you gave me.  

                Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

                by turbonium on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 02:02:54 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  Did you read fully ... (0+ / 0-)

      Or is the "split personality" comment from after finishing?

  •  Delete this. (0+ / 0-)

    I enjoy snark but ...

  •  cut and run (0+ / 0-)

    It's a mistake to allow the Republicans to set the terms of the debate. They don't debate. They lie, cheat and steal, they distort, they assert, they employ inuendo and they obfuscate. They do not debate. They must be utterly destroyed if we are to remain a democracy. Rep's want to frame the Dem's as 'cut and run' and themselves as 'stay the course.' It would be better framed by the Dem's as, 'are we playing checkers or are we playing chess?' or 'Should we continue to make a bad situation worse, or should we try something new?' or 'Where is the merit in continuing to follow a moron into hell?' There's a million ways to go besides 'cut & run' or 'stay the course.'

    "The fix is in." Steely Dan "I.G.Y."

    by Eirik Raude on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:29:25 PM PDT

    •  finally! (0+ / 0-)

      I was beginning to think nobody would get it.

      Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

      by turbonium on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:31:19 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Get what? (0+ / 0-)

        Dont say "Cut and Run"

        Got it.  Why the hell do we need this diary to tells us the obvious - what everyone here has been working on.

        I supported John Edwards in 2008 and it made me proud every day

        by BWasikIUgrad on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:36:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  George Lakoff, you can retire now (0+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          besieged by bush

          For something so "obvious", it seems hard for our Democratic representatives to get a grip on.  They keep talking about the "war".  

          If you're in a war, and you pull out, you have lost.  There's nothing good about retreat in the American political psyche.  I'm asking people to call a spade a spade, recognize that our troops did all we asked of them, and let the GOP depend this senseless occupation.  

          Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

          by turbonium on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:44:06 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  It is likely that Dems see the ME as extremely (0+ / 0-)

            valuable as an American asset.  There is a certain logic, albeit immoral and antithetical to our crowning Constiutional principles, to utilizing American power at this time in history for purely strategic and selfish purposes.  They may be torn.

            We don't have time for short-term thinking.

            by Compound F on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 08:49:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Yes, (0+ / 0-)

              That seems to be the position of the DLC/Lieberman axis--as well as the neo-cons.  Which does make their support of the Iraq invasion consistent, at least, if not completely forthright.  

              Of course, the ME is not an American asset, and representatives are accountable to their constituents for whatever such 'logic' they many employ.  We've just seen what CT voters think of this! Too bad Joe won't take the hint.

              My frustration is that even the most passionate liberal advocates of getting the hell out of Iraq can't seem to articulate it in a smart, savvy way that puts Republicans on the defensive.  Two thirds of the country thinks Iraq and Bush's presidency are colossal disasters, yet all I see is Dems in perpetual reaction mode, trying to ward off GOP attacks of defeatism, cut-and-run, yada yada. I'm suggesting they stand and fight here at home by rejecting the entire war premise.

              Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

              by turbonium on Thu Aug 10, 2006 at 02:07:50 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I don't get it. Why should George Lakoff retire? (0+ / 0-)

            I just recommended his new book in another diary. He seems to understand how neocons were able to bamboozle blue-colar America.

            "The fix is in." Steely Dan "I.G.Y."

            by Eirik Raude on Mon Aug 28, 2006 at 06:13:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  I was being sarcastic (0+ / 0-)

              BWasik and others seemed annoyed that I'm "stating the obvious" when it comes to "occupation" vs. "war"--yet repeating simple, carefully chosen memes ad nauseam is the essence of Lakoffian framing.

              Rest assured, I hold Lakoff in high esteem, and plan to read his latest book soon.  

              Export democracy: Draft a Republican.

              by turbonium on Mon Sep 04, 2006 at 05:12:13 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Mike Malloy destroyed Conservatives (0+ / 0-)

        on 'supporting the troops' on his show this evening.

        I wrote and asked him to give me the transcript so I could write about it here. It was unreal.

        I can't wait to get my hands on it. It was really powerful.

        Sharing and Caring are for Commies! They should be illegal. Drop by and support the Human Agenda

        by k9disc on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 09:03:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I got your diary (0+ / 0-)

    and I liked your phrase "let's stop speaking Republicanese." Words have great power to set the parameters of what we can think. People here are pretty vigilant about resisting Republican phraseologies, but our elected Dems are awful at it.  Maybe what we need is a running list of Repub words/phrases that put Dems into a problematic box and the suggested alternatives that help forward our agenda. Then email it to the whole pack of them regularly.

  •  Yes (0+ / 0-)

    We have to at utterly decouple the "War on Terror" from the "Iraq War."  We might begin by referring to the Iraq War as so much of a backfire it's become the "War For Terror."  After all, by conveniently feeding our soldiers into the terrorist Hell they created in Iraq -- for over three years now, since "Mission Accomplished" -- the Republicans will soon have doubled the American death toll of 9/11.

    The Republicans will soon have doubled the American death toll of 9/11.

    The Republicans will soon have doubled the American death toll of 9/11.  

    Keep saying it.

    Then we have to disassemble the "War on Terror" construct itself.  Protecting our nation from attack by terrorists -- and that's really the only goal here, isn't it? -- is best served, first, by not mounting rash foreign attacks that create more terrorists.  After all, isn't that how the terrorists pissed us off in the first place... by coming to our homeland and killing our loved ones?

    No, Protecting Our Nation From Attack, Which Is The Real Goal, is best served by intelligence.  This is not a "War on Terror."  This is a War of Intelligence.  We need to know who the terrorists are, what they're planning, what they possess, who is helping them, where their money comes from, and when it's best to publicly escort them to a civilized and also public education in the due process of rational human law.  They might be so impressed they flip... and that is how you spread democracy.

    This is a War of Intelligence, because only with deep intelligence and even understanding will we win.  And Intelligence, as America learned on 9/11 and on most days since, is the Republicans' weakest link.  They just can't do it.  They just can't get it together.  They are like blind boxers, flailing with their fists, but never seeing a punch coming.

    Meanwhile, our brave soldiers won the war of force already.  They've ensured Iraq had none of the WMDs the Republicans' fevered imaginations conjured... they've deposed the distant overblown villian Hussein... and they've given the Iraqis every purple-fingered chance they could want for democracy and self-determination.

    Our brave soldiers won this midguided war already, long ago.  Why won't the Republicans bring them home?

    Keep saying it.

    Democrats will bring our soldiers and our guardsmen home, where they're safe and with us and can keep the rest of us safe.  Democrats will protect us from attack -- intelligently and quietly, instead of exposing us to greater hostility by lashing out blindly.  And Democrats just might restore American prosperity and optimism as well, like we did only a decade ago, that seems to far away now...

    I dunno... just some thoughts worked up by your jolting presentation, which I wouldn't have been stimulated to type up without it.  So thanks.

    Coming up: Will news shows that ask stupid teaser questions ever regain their self-respect?

    by Irfo on Wed Aug 09, 2006 at 10:29:20 PM PDT

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