Maryland primary- I will not be voting for Ben Cardin

The bit below the fold was written in response to this diary, but I found the subject at hand diary worthy all by itself.

Ben Cardin has associated himself with John Hagee, the San Antonio, TX megachurch pastor, televangelist, and  National Chairman of "Christians United for Israel", a group of the usual wingnut suspects, (Falwell, Parsley, Bauer, etc.) and involved in the Ken Blackwell campaign in Ohio, that is backing Bush's Iran entanglement folly.

Hagee also, once upon a time, back in 1996 managed to piss off African Americans by announcing a "slave sale" as a fundraiser- an event he was forced to apologize for and change the name of.

Hagee's certainly not the kind of fellow I want my next Senator sharing podiums with.

So, my comment from the other diary-

Why specifically?

Due to his making common cause with the likes of John Hagee (televangelist and National Chairman, Christians United for Israel, and well worthy of a google search if you don't already know about him) Gov. Robert Ehrlich (R), and Sen. Sam Brownback (R) at the July 19th, 2006 "Solidarity With Israel Rally" and lobbying in DC.

Specifically, see "Christian Zionists lobby for US attack on Iran", from Jewsonfirst.org.

You may consider him a "smart Jewish guy", but one really has to wonder just how "smart" it is for him to get into bed with the likes of Hagee.

Hagee's Christians United for Israel (CUFI)is associated with the likes of Rod Parsley and the Ken Blackwell campaign in Ohio, Jerry Falwell, Janet Parshall, Benny Hinn, George Morrison (board of directors of Promise Keepers) and Gary Bauer. (See Max Blumenthal's article "Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism". A primary aspect of CUFI's work has been support for Bush's focus on Iran. To quote from the "Jews on First" article cited above;

Hagee maintains that confrontation with Iran is necessary to fulfill God's plan for the future of the world.

I would also seriously question your characterization of him, "Cardin has shown himself to be a rational voice..." if he chooses to associate with the likes of Hagee. Back in 1996, in Texas, Hagee really pissed off the African American community by publicizing a "slave sale" as a fundraiser. Hagee was later forced to apologize and changed the name of his event, but the damage was, well shall we simply say, already done.

(note, I do not personally endorse the group linked in this, I merely use the link as a citation to tell the story.)

•  Mryland primary's tomorrow- Tuesday

  Get out and VOTE!

  by stormcoming on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:13:22 PM PDT

•  Vote your heart tomorrow

  but I hope you will support Cardin in the general if he wins the primary.

  by clonecone on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:24:41 PM PDT

  •  All I'm saying

    is that it would be nice to have the clarity to be able to hang the Hagee association squarely around Gov. Ehrlich's neck in the general without blowback against a democrat. (Ehrlich shared the same podium.)

    And as for the general? Steel is the real enemy here- period.

    by stormcoming on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:31:06 PM PDT

    •  D'oh!

      That would be Michael Steele, not Steel, long night here on the east coast.

      by stormcoming on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:32:28 PM PDT

      •  Should be Steal..

        running with Lie Cheat...that would be Lie Cheat and Steal, perfect Truth-in-Advertising name for a Republican ticket.

        Mfume' would have been my first choice.  I fear the scandal that took place at the NAACP while he was the head will be an effective tool against him in the general, especially in the hands of Steele.  Yet if Mfume' gets the nod I'm behind him 100% and he will win against Steele.

        (There are an absurd number of other dem candidates in that primary as well, probably some good people, but none with the name recognition of Mfume' and Cardin.)

        by Paulie200 on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 12:00:21 AM PDT

•  In the pro-Cardin diary...

  ...you didn't bother to respond to this post.  

  by BarbinMD on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:34:13 PM PDT

  •  Now I have

    Thanks for bringing that to my attention BarbinMD, I just hadn't gotten back to that diary yet.

    by stormcoming on Mon Sep 11, 2006 at 11:59:05 PM PDT

    •  Okay

      Let's address it here too.

      The Jewish Federation of Greater Washington, the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington, The National Jewish Democratic Council, The Republican Jewish Coalition, the American Jewish Committee and the Israel Project held a rally that had speakers from (go figure) both parties and various religious groups talking on their behalf. Does this also mean that Wexler has aligned himself with Brownback?  That Wasserman has aligned herself with Ehrlich and so on?  No, it simply means that a group of diverse political and religious figures spoke out in defense of Israel.

      To say Cardin is somehow in league with Hagee because they spoke at the same rally, even though they have different agendas, is silly, IMO.

      by BarbinMD on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 12:17:58 AM PDT

      •  I've been busy digging for citations

        over on the other thread, so most of my argument is over there.

        That said, you want it here as well, fine- just keep in mind that here in MD it's about 5am and it's been one hell of a day, so I'm not going to be putting too much more into this tonight.

        My short answer is this.

        Follow this path that I laid out on the other thread-

        Finally, confirmation that they both spoke, from after the event had finnished from another organizational co-sponsor of the event,

        the Jewish Community Relations Council of Greater Washington

        go to the homepage, in the upper left hand corner click "DC Rally: America Stands with Israel". You'll be taken to a page that contains this-

        Speakers at the rally included His Excellency Daniel Ayalon - Ambassador of Israel, Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS), Congressman Ben Cardin (D-MD), Congressman Brad Sherman (D-CA), Congressman Robert Wexler (D-FL), Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL), Governor Robert Ehrlich, Reverend John Hagee, Rabbi Stuart Weinblatt and Rabbi Levi Shemtov. Irene Kaplan, President and Dr. Misha Galperin, Vice President & CEO represented the Jewish Federation of Greater Washington. Susan Weinberg, President and Ron Halber, Executive Director represented the JCRC.

        So yes, they shared a podium.

        From here, I guess it's just a matter of personal opinion. You may see it as a bunch of people with different agendas coming together on one stage to as I originally said, find "common cause" with one another on particular point.

        If you're ok with that, you're ok with that. Nothing I'm going to do or say is going to change that.

        As I said in my diary title, these are reasons I will not be voting for Ben Cardin.

        For me, I guess I just view it differently.

        I personally am not willing to share many stages/podiums/soapboxes or catboxes for that matter, even with people who some would feel I might 'make common cause with' because well, not only do I not want myself 'tarnished' with what they stand for, but I also am not willing to elevate/legitimize, someone say, like the likes of Hagee as any kind of politically 'legitimate' figure in any realm.

        But the Hagee and (broadly speaking) Jewish association is not just a matter of two steams coming together at a certain point because they are both going some supposed same direction.

        One ultimately has to look at Hagee, yes even beyond his immediate words and actions, and look to where he's really going with all this.

        Does his end-times prophetic senario accept Jewish people as they are, or does he ultimately think that in order to avoid eternal death, they must change. Change ultimately to become more like him?

        I think to some large degree, that question goes unanswered, for now at least- in part because the answers may become highly uncomfortable for many of the people sharing stages.

        Ultimately, one really has to ask, are these just people coming together and sharing a podium because they share at least one thing in common, or are they genuinely two completely different things sharing a space for now, but who ultimately have deeply irreconcilable differences pulling in opposing directions?

        Flat out- is it acceptable to share a stage with someone who ultimately may believe that in order for them to get to to heaven many of the people in the audience will have to die?

        My point is, while perhaps mutually politically expedient, is it really what you want? Is it really, well, ethical, to share a stage with someone who in his mind at least, in order to get to his god has to ultimately work for your anilhilation?

        As to what Hagee believes about end times prophecy, all we know is that it's priorty 1 for him, and in the short term, in order to get there, he feels he's biblically mandated to "bless Israel" (and the Jewish people, see Genesis 12:3) if he personally, is going to get to heaven (never mind the rationality of all that, I'm talking about his own beliefs.

        Without getting neck deep in theology from here, well, I'll bow out.

        That's just me and my personal standards for sharing a podium, I don't work together in any capacity (whenever possible, that is) with people who ultimately may just want me dead.

        Long answer to a short question, but as I said, this is my vote and these are my reasons.

        by stormcoming on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 01:36:19 AM PDT

        •  Great arguments against Hagee...

          but "they were at the same place at the same time" doesn't constitute Cardin's acceptance (much less endorsement) of Hagee's radical agenda.  Do you have any quotes where Cardin embraced Hagee?

          Cardin voted against the Iraq war debacle way before it was cool to be antiwar.  IMO this trumps his attendance at the event.

          He definately has my vote.

          by OnStarboardTack on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:26:36 AM PDT

          •  Yet more digging

            Yeah, lots of websearching, because let's face it, I brought the subject up, and if I'm going to point it out, the least I can do is try to document it as best I can- and that also includes taking note of where the limitations on that research are.

            Your question of directly embracing the Hagee is an important question, and one I've been on for the better part of last night.

            No, I do not have any direct quotes where Cardin has embranced Hagee personally and directly.

            All I have, and again, for me, this was enough, is his willingness to take part at an event that was in essence a weekend-long 'comming out party' for CUFI, and to personally share a stage with the Hagee, Erlich, Brownback, and Republican Party chairman Ken Mehlman, etc.

            Yes, politicians from opposite parties share stages, no biggie, but it's ultimately about the nature of the event, and the ends those with power are trying to achieve at the expense of those out of power- participation in that makes it something not so ordinary.

            Yes, there are good people in the midst of all this event, but that doesn't mean they'll have ultimate control over the direction this so called solidary rally and summit's work takes in light of the wingnuts, and the power structure that is ALSO a part of the same work.

            Yes, Jewish groups, politicians, and supporters, are involved, and yes, they're in one hell of  a bind, because the evagelical movement in addition to being in power in Washington, has become a prime support structure politically for Israel, and so Jewish groups and Israeli ministers are reciprocating. That said though, the evengelicals are in it for their own reasons, not all of which would end so well for Jews if the evangelical's pipe dreams ever were to somehow magically come true. It's a symbiotic relationship, wherein they each need each other.

            (Not that it's in my diary, but if people want to bring in other issues for Cardin, I guess, again, for me, I just point out his vote to reauthorize the Patriot Act.)

            by stormcoming on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 05:32:45 AM PDT

            •  Jesus Christ

              if you look hard enough, I'm sure you can find a reason NOT to vote for EVERYBODY!!

              I mean, Russ Feingold co-sponsered a major bill with that traitor John McCain, so he's out

              Even Barack Obama has worked together with crazy Tom Coburn, so he's out.

              No politician is perfect, so get over it.  You don't have to vote for him in the primary, but picking out itty-bitty things and blowing them out of proportion to justify it is asinine.

              by bawbie on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 06:26:47 AM PDT

•  Either way BOTH MUST SUPPORT the winner

  If Mfume wins, Mfume has my full support.

  If Cardin wins, Cardin has my full support.

  Remember that!!!!!!!!

  by davefromqueens on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 12:59:26 AM PDT

  •  In case I wasn't clear above

    Yes, I will be 'pulling the lever' for whomever the Democratic candidate becomes in the general- barring VASTLY unforseen circumstances.

    If Cardin wins the nomination, I will not so much be voting for him as voting against Steele in the general, but ultimately yes, while I may take definite issue with Cardin- doing whatever small bit I can to defeat Steele is vital.

    I've never met a candidate in my life who had my 'full support', that said, when it comes down to time to be pragmatic, I pull the lever- period.

    Lest anyone worry, I'm not a Green or an Indy posting this to make trouble, I'm a registered Democrat, and I vote my truth from where I sit which is why while I still have other options, I'll be voting for someone (yes a Democrat) other than Cardin.

    Nor I am Jewish, I'm just demographicly a member of enough' minority groups to understand the importance of long term interests and exactly how vile and repulsive the likes of John Hagee are.

    by stormcoming on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 01:52:20 AM PDT

•  Guilt By Association

  This was Joe McCarthy's stock in trade.

  You need to have something a lot better than this before you smear a candidate.  

  How many degrees of separation do you think there are between some of the candidates we Kossacks like best and Louis Farrakhan, the Communist Party, or someone who is associated with someone who is associated with Hamas?

  We need better standards than the standards of McCarthy.

  by absalom2 on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:08:13 AM PDT

  •  'Cute'

    Nothing like hanging the ole "Joe McCarthy" card around my neck just because I pointed out a single event that for me, personally, was the 'lost my vote' tipping point.

    "Smear a candidate".

    All I said is this is why I, me personally, Lauren Sabina Kneisly, will not be voting for Ben Cardin in today's Maryland primary.

    I think there are GENUINE issues about a candidate's judgement when he decides to share an event with the likes of John Hagee AND I think his choice to go ahead with the event deserves consideration by Maryland voters, not that many will event see this diary, I had expected it to scroll off well before morning.

    Lets put it this way, if- and this is purely a hypothetical- Cardin had shared an event with Jerry Falwell would you or would you not at least raise an eyebrow?

    I sure as hell would.

    I certainly wouldn't be caught dead sharing a podium with the man.

    Yet Falwell is exactly who Hagee has on his CUFI board (And quite normative of the cast of characters who round the board out).

    See this;

    Board members comprise an evangelical who's who, including Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Jack Hayford, George Morrison, Rod Parsley and Steven Strang. Televangelist Pat Robertson is to attend the summit, but is not on the board.

    I'm not "smearing a candidate" I'm saying for me, this was enough to lose my vote in the primary. It was embarrassing as hell, speaking as a Marylander, to have our elected officials participate in an event with Hagee, and that's not the kind of thing I want to see my elected officials doing in the future.

    And yes, I am putting it here on dKos, because it's a day of making hard and deeply personal choices when one steps into the voting booth. I would hope we each search out consciences before voting for a candidate- any candidate. I would also hope people would research candidates carefully this is some of the research that was helpful to me in making my choices. This event is most likely not already in the consciousness of many democratic voters. It's a detail I found useful in my own descision making.

    And no, we're not discussing "degrees of separation" here, I'm talking about two people at the same event.

    To me this was not just a lapse in judgement, it lost my vote in the primary.

    by stormcoming on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:42:45 AM PDT

•  I like Cardin

  and I'll vote for him today.

  by peregrina on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:12:46 AM PDT

•  I like Mfume...

  ...and I'll be voting for him this morning.

  But any way you slice it, we'll reach for the same lever on the first Tuesday in November!

  by labradog on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 04:28:47 AM PDT

  •  Or push the same Diebold button

    (oh for the days of levers) and just hope the computer gets the correct vote.

    by stitchmd on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 05:43:14 AM PDT

    •  yeah

      what you said :)

      by stormcoming on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 05:47:10 AM PDT

•  Geez -- this is a stretch

  Here, we Dems are fortunate enough to have to excellent candidates from which to choose. Fact is, both Cardin and Mfume would make excellent Senators.  Please vote FOR one of them.  There is no reason to vote AGAINST either of them.  This idea about sharing a stage with someone is such a stretch.  By that standard we should reject many anti-war leaders because they have marched  together with, and shared a stage with, known anti-semites.  Just as that is a silly reason not to oppose the war, this is a silly reason to oppose Cardin.  Judge Cardin by his record in the House.  Judge Mfume the same way.  In both cases, the records demonstrate that both are first class men, with excellent positions, whose hearts are in the right places.

  Either way, vote FOR one of these two outstanding indivduals.

  by livosh1 on Tue Sep 12, 2006 at 06:06:35 AM PDT