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Seems John Edward's choice of blog coordinators has met with the disdain, and very public criticism of one of those hypocritical bigots who have far too great a megaphone in the traditional media:

The New York Times and Associated Press have both reported criticism by Catholic League president Bill Donohue of two bloggers hired by John Edwards' presidential campaign; Donohue contends that the bloggers are "anti-Catholic, vulgar, trash-talking bigots."

But neither the Times article, by reporter John M. Broder, nor the AP article, by writer Nedra Pickler, included any mention of Donohue's own history of vulgar, trash-talking bigotry -- or of Donohue's decision to dismiss anti-Catholic bigotry on the part of a key anti-Kerry operative in 2004.

I hope the Edwards campaign reviews all of Media Matters' work on Donohue, and for that matter Glenn Greenwald on this issue. Do you see anywhere in the traditional media questions about John McCain's blogger, Patrick Hynes? Greenwald's been following him:

Let's begin with Patrick Hynes, the paid consultant for John McCain's presidential campaign. Hynes continuously blogged about political matters, including ones involving McCain and the GOP field, while concealing that he was on McCain's paid staff. That was not the first time Hynes has been caught using deceitful tricks to manipulate the blogosphere into writing content on behalf of his undisclosed clients....

Hynes' public writing is devoted to pure religious divisiveness -- he focuses almost exclusively on the claim that Christianity is superior and that those who attend church live better lives, and specifically to the belief that the Republican Party is the true party of those who believe in God and that Democrats are "anti-Christian." He wrote a book entitled In Defense of the Religious Right, and in an interview about that book in July, 2006, this is what he said:

Miner: Is it fair to call America a "Christian nation"?

Hynes: Yes. America is a Christian nation. As I write in my book, "Is America a Christian nation? Of course it is. Don’t be ridiculous. What a stupid question.

Ah, the civility of the far right. Why aren't intrepid New York Times reporters dogging Patrick Hynes? Maybe the story is just too complicated for them. It is Nedra, after all, on this beat.

But the ultimate point is that bowing to the kind of bigotry of Bill Donohue and Michelle Malkin (Donohue's assistant in this little research project), would be a serious mistake, both in terms of Edwards and his netroots outreach (which has been terrific thus far) but more in letting these haters have any more sway in national politics than they've already got. Weather this minor storm and stop letting the hypocritical bigots on the right dictate the terms.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:21 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  The one good response from Edwards (5+ / 0-)

    Pound Sand.

    You can lead a Republican to knowledge, but you can't make him think.

    by trifecta on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:20:06 AM PST

    •  Yes (6+ / 0-)

      No one on the right should be attacking Democratic bloggers when many of their so called journalists and bloggers ( think Bill Orally, Guckert/Gannon and a host of others ) are spewing hate everywhere they go. Right wing blogs show evidence of vile hateful posts. And some of these people are hired by the RNC and GOP candidates.

      Non Binding is only Good for Undergarments, not for Senate Resolutions.

      by wishingwell on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:25:09 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  A distinction I'd add to that... (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        arlene, edgery, anotherdemocrat, TomP

        We can't stop anyone on the right from attacking Democratic bloggers. They want to be assholes who attack us for childish shit, they can and will.

        On the other hand, we can defend each other and ourselves, and we can resist the temptation to consider the word of our opponents as intended to help us. And we can push back against the media and the voices of fake piety within our own party and the public when they put too much stock in the words and integrity of our opponents.

        Donohue and Pickler (and the right's bloggers generally) are concern trolls. The Edwards campaign needs to understand this - and they need to show that they understand this.

        Otherwise, in the unlikely event they manage to win anything, they're going to get their clocks cleaned on a daily basis by Republicans, who are under no illusions about the likelihood that their opponents are really only looking out for their best interests.

        So, let's see what the Edwards campaign does, says, and learns from this...

        Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

        by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:36:19 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Another distinction (5+ / 0-)

          The best defense is a good offense.  We need to start going on the offense against the people who hurl these insults, as well as the hypocrites who disseminate them.  In the oft relayed advice of TRex from FDL:

          ATTACK!  ATTACK!  ATTAAAAAACCCCKKK!!

          When the war came, the war came hard.

          by electricgrendel on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:39:08 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Edwards Not Ready For PrimeTime (0+ / 0-)

            When I saw that Edwards had hired Amanda, I thought it was a ballsy move given that a lot of what she has written has been very provocative.  I had zero doubt that the right-wingers were going to have a field-day going through her archives.  I figured that the Edwards campaign knew this, but their reaction (even if she is not fired) has shown that they had no idea at all how things work in the fascistosphere and/or were not that familiar with Amanda's writing.  Not being prepared for this crap from Malkin and the other outrage-artists shows that they ain't ready for primetime.  If you are going to hire a blogger like Amanda, you better be prepared for the shit and to react to it.

        •  good point Chris (0+ / 0-)

          you are right about that.

          Non Binding is only Good for Undergarments, not for Senate Resolutions.

          by wishingwell on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 02:16:23 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Battle station everybody (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        anotherdemocrat, TomP

        Wingnut are attacking Edwards. Time to plastered wingnut sites with their own dirt.

        If you have blog, don't forget to link to Amanda's posts/site. So it can have bigger google profile.

    •  Edwards Campaign fires bloggers (0+ / 0-)

      The right-wing blogosphere has gotten its scalps -- John Edwards has fired the two controversial bloggers he recently hired to do liberal blogger outreach, Salon has learned.

      The bloggers, Amanda Marcotte, formerly of Pandagon, and Melissa McEwan, of Shakespeare's Sister, had come under fire from right-wing bloggers for statements they had previously made on their respective blogs. A statement by the Catholic League's Bill Donohue, which called Marcotte and McEwan "anti-Catholic vulgar trash-talking bigots," and an accompanying article on the controversy in the New York Times this morning, put extra pressure on the campaign.

      Salon

      Dare I even dream of Gorebamarama in '08?

      by Walt starr on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:11:10 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  This is really simple (24+ / 0-)

    The Edwards campaign needs to stand behind its bloggers, and should have said something days ago to end this faux-controversy.

    If John Edwards will back down from the wingers on this, for whom will he stand up and fight?

    •  from what has he backed down? (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      boofdah, Caoimhin Laochdha, okrahoma, TomP

      You're attacking him for something that hasn't happened.

      Jesus, I know the campaign schedule has hit lightspeed, but is it really necessary to start attacking people for things that haven't happened?

      JRE 2008
      "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
      -John Edwards

      by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:22:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  They've known about this for days (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Trapper John, Oregon Bear, NewDem, boofdah

        Mr. Edwards's spokeswoman, Jennifer Palmieri, said Tuesday night that the campaign was weighing the fate of the two bloggers is an inappropriate response.

        •  what is inappropriate about that (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          boofdah

          Maybe she should lie.  THat would be good.  Right?

          JRE 2008
          "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
          -John Edwards

          by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:28:04 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Edwards hasn't been in NC (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          philgoblue, TomP

          I'm hoping that he just hasn't had time to gather up all the info and deal with it.,, but I hope he stands by them

          from Hotline:

          Where Isn't John Edwards?

          This busy beaver of a presidential candidate has an extraorindarily busy February, according to a campaign e-mailed we were sent.

          February 1-2, New York City
          February 5, Bloomington, IL
          February 6, Detroit, MI
          February 7, Kansas City, MO
          February 7, Oklahoma City, OK
          February 8, Charleston, SC
          February 9, Chapel Hill, NC
          February 9, Mississippi
          February 12, Miami, FL
          February 13, Ft. Lauderdale, FL
          February 14, Tulsa, OK
          February 14-15, Los Angeles, CA
          February 15, San Francisco, CA
          February 16, Las Vegas, NV
          February 20, Houston, TX
          February 21, Dallas, TX
          February 22, Knoxville, TN
          February 22, Nashville, TN
          February 23, Pittsburgh, PA
          February 25, New York City
          February 26, New Jersey
          February 27, New York City

          Why do Murdoch and Trump like Hillary?

          by inevitibility on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:32:46 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  Thus the word 'if'... nt (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Cheez Whiz, boofdah, TomP

        "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

        by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:26:25 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  He's taken a week to figure out what to do. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        paida, anotherdemocrat

        That's giving this far too much time.

        And saying that the campaign is "weighing [their] fate" makes it sound like the campaign still doesn't know what they should do.

        The thing that hasn't happened is that Edwards hasn't figured out who his friends are, and who's trying to jerk him around for conservative purposes.

        Neither of those things speaks well of him or his campaign. What's he waiting for?

        Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

        by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:41:29 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  no, he's ignoring idiots spouting irrelevancies (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          TomP

          The left should try it.

          JRE 2008
          "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
          -John Edwards

          by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:44:18 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Really (4+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Christopher, tmo, NewDem, anotherdemocrat

            How did that strategy work for the Kerry-Edwards campaign against the Swift Boaters?

          •  I wish you were right about that. (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Adam B

            If the Edwards campaign is ignoring Donohue and Malkin (as you suggest and believe, and I'd like to see them do), then why would they let anyone speak for the campaign and say that they're "weighing the fate" of the bloggers?

            There should be no fate to be weighed. The answer should have been: "We stand behind our staffers." The pushback should have been that Donohue and Malkin are conservative twits, and that the Edwards campaign hopes people will understand if the campaign does not interpret right-wing whining as being meant with their best interests at heart.

            But that's not the reaction they've had so far, so you'll have to excuse the rest of us for being a bit skeptical about the wisdom of ignoring such attacks or reacting to them slowly in a way that makes the campaign look weak and indecisive.

            I suppose the silver lining is that if they screw this up, they'll be in little danger of getting into any position of power where they can really screw things up by taking their marching orders from conservative hacks and asshole AP writers. Who on the Edwards campaign thinks these people (e.g., Donohue and Pickler) are their friends? Who wants to defend that claim?

            Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

            by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:57:06 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  "weighing the fate" are Pickler's words (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              TomP

              Now Pickler is to be trusted!??!??

              JRE 2008
              "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
              -John Edwards

              by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:58:59 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Not Pickler's words (1+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                AlanF

                In the NYT article, written by John Broder, is the following:

                Mr. Edwards’s spokeswoman, Jennifer Palmieri, said Tuesday night that the campaign was weighing the fate of the two bloggers.

                It's not a quote, so it may have been a paraphrase, but it's not Pickler.

                "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

                by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:01:25 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Fine, it's the other hack. (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  AlanF

                  But that's not a quote.  THat is the spin of a political reporter.

                  JRE 2008
                  "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
                  -John Edwards

                  by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:02:15 AM PST

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  Are you going to tell us it's *wrong*, though? (0+ / 0-)

                    Are you going to tell us that the Edwards campaign isn't weighing their fate?

                    Are you going to tell us it hasn't been a week since this was mentioned and discussed, and there's still been no answer?

                    Are you going to tell us that just because a reporter described something in an unflattering light, that it really doesn't matter?

                    Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

                    by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:19:04 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                •  It is Pickler (0+ / 0-)

                  Ever been on the other side of the phone?  Pickler had the quote or something like it and was just trying to place it in somebody's mouth.  She probably didn't get a juicy enough reply so it stayed as sort of kind of attributed.  Figure the reporter kept asking things like "Has the campaign decided to fire the bloggers?"  "Well, is it fair to say that you are weighing their fate?"  "Well, if you haven't made a decision and are not in the process of judging the bloggers status within the campaign, what is the Edwards staff response to this problem?  Would someone else know?"

                  The Times leaned over in favor of Bush even when Bush and Cheney attacked their own reporter over an open microphone (and he was a wimp).

                  What in the world is going on here.  This is a lot bigger than the bloggers.  Edwards is all of a sudden going from top tier to being hauled out with the rest of the garbage.  In the meantime, he "won" the DNC talk-off, came out with a definite plan for immediate health care for the 50 million now uncovered and is on record as wanting to withdraw 50,000 troops from Iraq immediately.

                  This has all the marks of a coordinated hit campaign that will not only work but will work permanently.  Think the "Al Gore as a serial liar" nonstop attack or Kerry as a flipflopper.  Unfortunately, there is a much bigger target here than John Edwards.  Universal health care without the insurance companies.  Now.

                  •  Then I look forward to seeing Edwards learn... (0+ / 0-)

                    ...how to handle it.

                    He can start by standing up for his campaign staffers.

                    If he can't do that, he won't have to worry about doing much else.

                    Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

                    by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:08:25 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  One of the main benefits of Edwards (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:
                      SS Eye

                      is that he was supposed to have learned this in '04.

                      If this proves that he didn't, then I'm going to be seriously concerned.

                      "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

                      by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:11:03 AM PST

                      [ Parent ]

                  •  God I hate defending her (0+ / 0-)

                    But the sentence I quoted above was from the NYT piece by John Broder, not from the AP piece by Nedra Pickler.

                    "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

                    by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:10:08 AM PST

                    [ Parent ]

              •  I don't care whose words they are. (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                kywddavid, anotherdemocrat

                I don't care whose words those are - what matters is that they accurately portray the campaign's state of mind, and I've seen nothing - from you or the campaign, here or in a story - to dispute that. So try not to be so surprised that anyone would see those words and have that reaction.

                All Edwards had to say was "We stand behind our campaign staff. I'm not going to let some reactionary freak tell me how to staff my campaign."

                Well, the second sentence is sort of overkill, or a baited hook; it's a setup to keep the issue alive and invite Donohue to respond (probably with some sort of "John Edwards obviously hates Catholics!!!" bullshit), then Edwards can say, "Bill Donohue needs to understand there's a difference between attacking specific people, and attacking everyone. For example, he said things about Jewish people and Hollywood and graphic sex, without distinguishing them at all, like he's edging towards Mel Gibson territory. What I said is that Donohue is a reactionary freak; if anyone else wants to claim that mantle, they can, but they'll have to work pretty hard to match his level of reactionary freakishness."

                (not that Edwards would/should go to all that trouble, but if it's what the press wants to talk about, then he should certainly have a better press strategy than "Lemme get back to you about what I'm doing with my staff decisions." There doesn't need to be a "decision"; there needs to have been a decision, and it needs to have been standing up for his staffers.)

                Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

                by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:15:04 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  wow, John's response to you should be (0+ / 0-)

                  Pound Sand also.

                  you make an awful lot of ASSumptions without evidence. one 'attributed' (translation:made-up) non-quote and suddenly you know enough to rant about him? And you claim to have 'heard nothing' from all these places, yet your posts clearly show you do not LISTEN.

            •  But you are arguing that a spokesperson (0+ / 0-)

              used the wrong phrase.  Which I agree with, but I hardly think it's conclusive evidence of what Edwards thinks about this issue.  

              Is she even their main spokesperson, or just someone the NYT got on the phone?

              "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

              by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:59:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Um, my impression is... (0+ / 0-)

                Um, my impression is that any competent professional campaign is going to be very careful when they talk to the New York Times.

                Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

                by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:25:35 AM PST

                [ Parent ]

            •  Heck, what about just using (0+ / 0-)

              the old tagline TV stations use when an infomercial comes on: "The views expressed by this program do not necessarily reflect the views of this station"?

    •  It IS a faux controversy (5+ / 0-)

      It's busy work for Donohue and Malkin.  Malkin commenting on anything 'hate filled' is a joke in itself.  

    •  Edwards cmpaign fired them (0+ / 0-)

      Big time disappointed in Edwards today. I relegate his candidacy to as tep below Biden on my list now.

      Dare I even dream of Gorebamarama in '08?

      by Walt starr on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:14:05 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Exactly (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Adam B, ChiGirl88, SS Eye

      They should have reacted sooner, and in fact should have known this was coming.  I knew the minute I saw that Amanda was hired that the Instaclowns and Malkins were going to pull this crap given Amanda's style of writing (which I like). . . .  They shouldn't have hired her if they didn't know who she was.  They should have been prepared for this and reacted to it.  It appears that (a) they didn't really know who they were hiring or (b) didn't know that the fascistosphere would react this way.  Either one shows that they ain't ready for the big-time.

  •  Thank you. (8+ / 0-)

    Please note nobody has been fired.  And he DID in fact hire her.  That ought to count for something.

    That Palmieri hadn't gotten her marching orders yet at the time of the call from the hackomatic NY TImes reporter meanse little.

    JRE 2008
    "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
    -John Edwards

    by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:21:43 AM PST

    •  hey hotshot (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      edgery, TomP

      Good to see you, as always.

      I'm going to go grocery shopping and chill.  I know John Edwards, and he would never, ever "back down" on this or let his people down.  Never.  There's nothing here and a week from now the answer will be the same, nothing there and the bloggers still at work.

      Good luck.

  •  IOKIYAR (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paradox, jre2k8, boofdah, SS Eye, TomP

    It's OK If You Are Republican.

    teh double standard reminas in place.

    Watch, we'll get a Democratic president out of the '08 electioin and the media will go after them the day after the election with impeachment talk.

    Dare I even dream of Gorebamarama in '08?

    by Walt starr on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:23:28 AM PST

  •  KR (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, boofdah, TomP, inevitibility

    Why aren't intrepid New York Times reporters dogging Patrick Hynes? Maybe the story is just too complicated for them.

    Karl Rove needs to fax over his "talking points" before these reporters understand anything.

    Opening Day - April 1, 2007

    by MikeBaseball on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:23:45 AM PST

  •  Once again the MSM (10+ / 0-)

    demonstrates how completely unqualified most of the so called "journalists" are.  

    Fine, call out Edward's staff, but then complete the story by calling ALL staffers out.  Silly me....for a moment I was delusional, thinking that our corporate owned media would in the least bit be concerned with truth.

    John McCain Just one more koolaid drinker

    by SanJoseLady on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:25:01 AM PST

    •  Seems like whenever theres a story about (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jre2k8, edgery

      bad journalism around here, Nedra Pickler seems to be involved.

      Hmmmm....

      Thanks Tut, Gramp, Choom Gang, and Ray for all the good times. Relentless!

      by ablington on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:31:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Is she even a real person? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        ablington, jre2k8

        I mean, seriously, does she even exist, or does the AP just have a byline they use for hit pieces that nobody wants credit for?

        I mean, if I saw a NYT article written by Hugh Jass I'd be more likely to believe it was written by an actual human being.

        Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

        by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:10:11 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

  •  well, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    johnny rotten, jre2k8, boofdah

    It's early enough in the campaign that this should blow over by the time it matters.

    And I definitely think he should stand by his bloggers.  Having said that, though, I can't believe that the Edwards camp couldn't have foreseen this.  I love Marcotte's writing -- she's been on my short list of must-reads for a while -- but only a cocooned sycophant could deny that her extremely vulgar paper trail pose problems in the contemporary campaign environment.  I love George Carlin and Kevin Smith too; but I wouldn't put them on my presidential campaign.

    Still, I'm glad you're knocking down the rank hypocrisy of Malkin and her obnoxious minions.

    •  95% of the time, the MSM objects to vulgar (5+ / 0-)

      language because they are not allowed to use it.

      Chris Matthews said "fuck" on Imus this morning and whomever was on the edit button for the MSNBC feed missed it.  They seemed to think they got it for the radio audience, but I heard it on the tele - oops.

      The people who work in the MSM are perfectly capable of vulgarity too - their just pissed because they aren't allowed.

      As for Donohue, he is your garden variety right wing nutter who has attached himself to yet another poor unsuspecting religion.  His use and abuse of his religion is vulgar.

    •  There aren't a lot of virgin ears on a campaign. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      cardinal, jre2k8, anotherdemocrat, SS Eye, TomP

      I don't think we need to take civility lessons from the party and movement that includes Dick Cheney ("Go fuck yourself!") and Karl Rove ("We're going to fuck him like he's never been fucked before!").

      Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

      by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:00:02 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Standards are for Democrats (7+ / 0-)

    But even this time the standard, as Glenn says, is plain absurd.  There's nothing here at all.

    Except being shit upon by ABC.  Halperin--what a creep.  Moran and his creepy brother--scumbags.

    It's amazing how these pod people whistle along like nothing is wrong, just disgusting. The war has gone to total hell, but we pay attention to bloggers.

    I guess because nobody is pay attention to you, you fucking liars.  That's why I tell people, if you wanna get lied to watch TV and ABC.

    It's just pathetic, the immaturity of this.  I'm sick of these childish creeps initiating the dialogue in this country, they can barely tie their shoes.

    •  If I say "Fuck Mark Halperin" am I blacklisted... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jre2k8

      ...from working on any campaign? ;-)

      Since Bush said "We're not leaving [Iraq] while I'm the president," that means you're either for years of more war or you're for impeachment. Your choice.

      by Christopher on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:47:34 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hypocrisy??? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, boofdah, edgery, TomP

    The New York Times and Associated Press have both reported criticism by Catholic League president Bill Donohue of two bloggers hired by John Edwards' presidential campaign; Donohue contends that the bloggers are "anti-Catholic, vulgar, trash-talking bigots."

    Would that be coming from the church organization that has defended and hid all of those bible toting, unmarrie, religious preaching, perverts and child molesters that they knew about for all these past decades???

    I see how they could try to take the MORAL high ground...NOT!!!

  •  I'm actually on a panel with Hynes (16+ / 0-)

    next week. On C-Span. That should be interesting.

    Yes, Edwards needs to stand by his bloggers. He hired them for a reason, and seeing as how it was Amanda and Shakes, I imagine it had something to do with their feistiness. So he needs to take a cue from them. Don't cave to the pressure from these right-wing SOBs.

  •  He MUST stand firm (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, boofdah, edgery, anotherdemocrat

    This is simple. He needs to dismiss it as the ridiculous tripe it is, call out Donahue on his own hate speech, and move on to health care, Iraq, etc. "I'll let Bill Donahue worry about whether staff I've hired to reach out to the Americans through the Internet meet his personal standards of conduct, and I'll keep talking to the American people about getting us out of the debacle in Iraq and focusing on winning the real war on terrorism, about my health care plan to help get health insurance for everybody who needs it, about helping shrink the disgusting gap in incomes in this country,..."

    I don't think that's too hard. C'mon, John. Right now, a lot of us are hitching our carts to your horse. Show us you're worthy of it.

    Man, I fuckin' hate politics.

    by Whigsboy on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:28:21 AM PST

  •  Is it really necessary (7+ / 0-)

    to make an employer own up to everything their employees have said in their lifetimes?

    This is completely ridiculous.  

    "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

    by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:28:55 AM PST

    •  a presidential campaign (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      johnny rotten, jre2k8

      . . .is not a typical place of employment.

      It is ridiculous.  I wish the Arnold ethos were more prominent (that is, "I've smoked everything that grows, and screwed everything that moves.  If you don't like it, don't vote for me!") -- but the reality of the modern campaign just doesn't allow for it at the national level.

  •  Bill Donohue... (9+ / 0-)

    ...calling someone a bigot?

    Any media outlet allowing that to stand without comment should be shunned by all decent people.

  •  It's time to stand against this nonsense (6+ / 0-)

    Like the fake stories about Obama, the wingers are gathering early and often to target Democratic candidates in any way they can.  Notice they aren't going after the positions of the candidates -- they are going after staff or making up lies.  We are going to face this nonsense for the next 2 years and it's going to get a whole lot uglier as the primary season gets under way in earnest.

    The traditional media are feeding these efforts by giving them air.  It's easier to repeat what the wingers are saying than to do their own research or question the source.

    So, there are two issues for all the Democratic candidates here:

    1. Stand against the attackers.  Anything else will only encourage more.
    1. Question the media on why it isn't doing a better job of presenting the motives or backgrounds of the accusers.

    Then get back to the issues.  That's where we have the other side beat, they know it and are going to do everything they can to keep the attention on non-issues.  Don't let them.  Strike back against the wingers NOW, then go back to the issues.  Rinse and repeat.

    "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead

    by edgery on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:30:05 AM PST

    •  It reminds me of a movie (0+ / 0-)

      And I can't remember the title, dammit, but Boris Karloff was in it. Anyway, a company of soldiers is trekking through the Iraqi desert to make it to a British base, and they're getting picked off by their unseen enemies, one by one.

      I think that's what the right is doing here. And I'll go a step further into the realm of sheer speculation--I think they're trying to damage the credible alternatives to Hillary Clinton because the right believes that she is the one Democrat they can beat in 2008. Whether that's true or not is totally beside the point; if the wingnuts believe it, that's how they'll act.

      "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

      by AustinCynic on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 03:36:11 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  The Lost Patrol? (0+ / 0-)

        You piqued my curiosity, so I trekked over to my favorite movie site, IMDB.

        They say this

        http://www.imdb.com/...

        could possibly be the movie title you seek. The synopsis says:

        "A World War I British Army patrol is crossing the Mesopotomian desert when their commanding officer, the only one who knows their destination is killed by the bullet of unseen bandits. The patrol's sergeant keeps them heading north on the assumption that they will hit their brigade. They stop for the night at an oasis and awake the next morning to find their horses stolen, their sentry dead, the oasis surrounded and survival difficult."

        Directed by John Ford!

        Would this be "What comes around goes around," or " Everything old is new again"?

        •  That's It!!! (0+ / 0-)

          Thanks, Brooke!

          An apt metaphor, and IMO one of Karloff's finest performances.

          "Nothing worth having comes without some kind of fight. You've got to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight." --Bruce Cockburn, "Lovers In A Dangerous

          by AustinCynic on Thu Feb 08, 2007 at 03:31:59 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Fuck you, Donohue. (4+ / 0-)

    'Cause us here in the netroots - AKA, the American citizenry - are gonna bury your sorry ass and were gonna do this merely by having our say on things that concern us. And we'll have it regardless of whether we are Democrats, Republicans, Independents or otherwise, and sometimes we'll have it in vulgar ways but we will have it...I guess that's what scares you the most.

    •  Remember Donahue on Scarborough: (4+ / 0-)

      Donohue is nutsy-cuckoo. He really is.

      WILLIAM DONAHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE:  I spoke to Mel (Gibson) a couple of weeks ago about this.  And I don‘t think it really matters a whole lot to him.  It certainly doesn‘t matter to me.  We‘ve already won.

      Who really cares what Hollywood thinks?  All these hacks come out there.  Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.  It‘s not a secret, OK?  And I‘m not afraid to say it.  That‘s why they hate this movie.  It‘s about Jesus Christ, and it‘s about truth.  It‘s about the messiah.

      Hollywood likes anal sex.  They like to see the public square without nativity scenes.  I like families.  I like children.  They like abortions.  I believe in traditional values and restraint.  They believe in libertinism.  We have nothing in common.  But you know what?  The culture war has been ongoing for a long time.  Their side has lost.

      You have got secular Jews.  You have got embittered ex-Catholics, including a lot of ex-Catholic priests who hate the Catholic Church, wacko Protestants in the same group, and these people are in the margins.  Frankly, Michael Moore represents a cult movie.  Mel Gibson represents the mainstream of America.  

      My file on RedState.org: Adigal: Another one of them left wing girls way too smart for our own good. Her phones need to be monitored.

      by adigal on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:46:43 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Reminds me of Al Pacino (0+ / 0-)

      I that movie Scent of Woman:

      "An' Mike Moran'n Mark Halerin an' Donohue--fuck you too!"

  •  Edwards has a lot to overcome (1+ / 1-)
    Recommended by:
    tiponeill
    Hidden by:
    entlord1

    I think Edwards (although great netroots support thus far) has a lot to prove to the party and county that he didn't in 2004.

    The war, his campaign, his message.

    My problem with Sen. Edwards is that he doesn't come off as genuine. I approached him at the DNC meeting about what I always complain about here on Kos.

    I told him I was an Iraq Veteran, and asked him not only why he waited so long to disavow his IWR vote, but more importantly why did he co-sponsor it.

    He was a bit scared I think, but gave me an appropriate answer. "We were wrong, I was wrong, we were all wrong".

    He needs to genuine, or he's going have a lot more problems than me in 2008. The media have attacked his campaign again and again this round.

    Will he get a break? Maybe. but if he wants to win over support from the party he needs not to sound like a salesman but like someone who doesn't care if he loses and tell us the truth.

    That's what we want in our leadership.

    I am not alone in my thoughts either, a CDA Leader who also attended the DNC meeting stole the words from my mind.. She said Edwards seems very "Snake like". And she was a southerner.

    We will see if Edwards can sell beyond the netroots. I am trying to be more open minded than before.

    "I have not yet begun to fight" --John Paul Jones

    by djm4america on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:31:28 AM PST

    •  oh here he goes again (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Radiowalla, jre2k8, TomP

      An Edwards post - let's insult him!!!

      JRE 2008
      "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
      -John Edwards

      by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:44:56 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Try another candidate? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      jre2k8, anotherdemocrat, TomP

      Have you tried to ask Hillary or McCain the same?  She or he would have pushed you aside, ignored you and  secret service might have carted you off.

      Snake like?  Once again he is the only one who stated exactly where he stands on the issues.  Hillary, Obama, and McCain figure it is too early to say anything.

      •  Haha!! Imagine getting close enough to Hillary (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jre2k8, TomP

        to actually ask her a question??

        You don't get near royalty, my dear. It just isn't done.

        My file on RedState.org: Adigal: Another one of them left wing girls way too smart for our own good. Her phones need to be monitored.

        by adigal on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:48:09 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

    •  If you could make a comment without gratuities... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      philgoblue, okrahoma, TomP

      maybe you could be taken seriously.

      These interjections of insults belie sincerity.

      As if you care about his answer regarding the AUMF.

      Nothing he could say would satisfy you, so why pretend?

      Your question to Edwards was not in good faith.

    •  Well, a huge plurality of Kossacks disagree (0+ / 0-)

      Who is currently your favorite 2008 candidate?

      Edwards  26% 6654 votes
      Obama  25% 6435 votes
      Clark  14% 3657 votes
      Other  8% 2059 votes
      Richardson  6% 1683 votes
      No Freakin' Clue  6% 1543 votes
      Kucinich  4% 1172 votes
      Clinton  4% 1071 votes
      Vilsack  1% 314 votes
      Biden  0% 175 votes
      Gravel  0% 119 votes
      Dodd  0% 115 votes

    •  this is funny (0+ / 0-)

      Edwards isn't genuine enough but when he was asked a routine question by someone, he all of a sudden looked scared and didn't have a ready, smooth, prefabricated answer like a regular politician?
      Make up your mind, is he not genuine or is he so easily rattled after years of trial work?  You can't make both claims in one post.
      And then someone said he was a snake and she was a Southerner? Yep there goes that Borg-Southern group mind again, if one thinks it, they will all think it.
      Ever think maybe some of the people who oppose him might constitute his strongest endorsement?

  •  "Is it (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    mcjoan, bawbie, jre2k8, deha, GeorgeXVIII

    fair to call Patrick Hynes a douchebag?"

    Yes, Patrick Hynes is a douchebag.  As I write in my book, "Is Patrick Hynes a Douchebag?" of course he is.  Don't be ridiculous.  What a stupid question.

    I wish there was a morning-after pill for Denny's "Moons Over My Hammy"

    by als10 on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:31:32 AM PST

  •  The question is what does John Edwards... (0+ / 0-)

    stand for and what does it mean for Edwards to have hired these bloggers?  I'd like to hear it from Edwards himself.

    •  how about Edwards' gardener (0+ / 0-)

      Has anyone checked out his lawnman? It is almost time to start checking closets for illegals working as nannies.....wait, that is checking basements for liberals hiding illegals working as nannies.  Everyone knows that is where you keep your mistress.
      Maybe Edwards' wife's third cousin once removed once hired an illegal to clean his pool?
      Come on rightwingnuts; where is the zeal whereby the font for an obscure typeface could be identified in less than 2 hours after appearing in public?

  •  Confession time... (4+ / 0-)

    Amanda Marcotte has been my secret crush for years. Since the Edwards campaign hired her I had been planning on making a donation. Of course, whether or not this donation is forthcoming depends on whether or not they stand behind her in the wake of this manufactured "scandal".

    It strikes me that the set of respected liberal bloggers, and the set of people who have never made an intemperate comment on a subject likely to anger conservatives, are two sets that do not overlap. If your goal, as a Presidential campaign, is to not offend anyone, then it's best to hire a nonentity to run your blog (and for every other position in your campaign). However, as recent Presidential campaigns have shown, "never offend anyone" is both impossible and bad strategy.

    Sheesh. They, like, read her blog before they hired her, right? Why is any of this a surprise to the Edwards campaign?

    •  it wasn't just christians though (0+ / 0-)

      she made intemperate comments to people who were simply taking issue with the way she condemned the men in the Duke case, who--no matter what you might feel about the issue--still have not been convicted of anything. The problem I see with that is, as a spokesperson for Edwards' campaign, she is saying things publicly about an ongoing legal situation that could amount to (slander/libel? not sure which is exactly appropriate). The fact that Edwards himself is a lawyer seems to make that even less appropriate for his staff to be doing.

      I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes...

      by 2501 on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:38:36 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Was she on his staff when she (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        edgery

        was talking about the Duke case?

        I don't think so, as she was just hired last week.

        "Why don't newscasters cry when they read about people who die? At least they could be decent enough to put just a tear in their eye" - Jack Johnson

        by bawbie on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:40:33 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

      •  What are you talking about? (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        philgoblue, bawbie, TomP

        She hasn't commented on the Duke case in months; her employment with Edwards is as of last week. Besides which -- what is your point? O.J. Simpson was never convicted of anything, but I'm allowed to say I think he's guilty. The only people who are forbidden to say something about an ongoing legal case are people who have an actual role in deciding the matter -- ie, judges and jurors.

        •  yes she has (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Rob Mac K

          Here is her post from 1/21.  Go to pandagon now and you will see she replaced it.

          "Naturally, my flight out of Atlanta has been delayed. Let’s hope it takes off when they say it will so I don’t miss my connecting flight home.

          "In the meantime, I’ve been sort of casually listening to CNN blaring throughout the waiting area and good fucking god is that channel pure evil. For awhile, I had to listen to how the poor dear lacrosse players at Duke are being persecuted just because they held someone down and fucked her against her will—not rape, of course, because the charges have been thrown out.
          "Can’t a few white boys sexually assault a black woman anymore without people getting all wound up about it?
          "So unfair."
          "Yes, how dare a rape victim act confused and bewildered like she was raped or something."

  •  It's not either-or though (6+ / 0-)

    I read some of the things Amanda Marcotte posted on her site, and the way she reacted to some of the people who replied to her posts, and I have to say that regardless of the bigotry of some of the people criticizing her, she does appear to be somewhat of a hothead with poor judgement and anger-management skills.

    Just because the people attacking her are usually wrong, does not mean that she is in the right, just because they are against her.

    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes...

    by 2501 on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:34:01 AM PST

  •  Body Slamming (4+ / 0-)

    Edwards is going to get hit hard and often by the establishment, the have-mores and the global corporations.  He wants to return America to the Americans.

    Go to his website and form a One Chapter office for your local community.  Edwards is our grass roots candidate.

  •  Absurd on so many levels. (7+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    paradox, bawbie, jre2k8, lcbo, anotherdemocrat, Ag, TomP

    That this originated with Our Lady of the Internment Camps--whose credibility would be in tatters after the Jamil Hussein incident, if she actually had any credibility to begin with and wasn't a media confection brought on to spew hate--and ended up on CNN and in the NYT is just absolutely revolting.

    These assholes only have problems with people who deploy F-bombs.  If it comes to deploying nuclear bombs, they've got to run to the bathroom to change their underwear from all of the excitement.  It's revolting.

    One last thing- I have no pity for this Donohue fellow.  He and his call me and mine sinners, damned, perverts, pedophiles, abominations, and anything else they can come up with.  If you inject your faith into political discourse, expect mockery.  And there are a whole lot of things much worse that can be said about Catholicism than the notion that it fights against birth control in order to increase its tithing base.

    I called the Edwards campaign (919-636-3131) and told them I support Marcotte and that if they do not stand up to this then they are going to lose a supporter and a lot of face amongst people who actually matter to them.  They will never get Malkin or Donahue's endorsement; they could very well lose mine.

    When the war came, the war came hard.

    by electricgrendel on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:37:11 AM PST

  •  Nedra Pickler is an ass and a bad writer whose (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oregon Bear, sexton, jre2k8

    articles during the last five years unfailingly have left out details that would incriminate anyone connected with or sympathetic to GOP interests.

    She should NOT be on the staff of any major news service.

  •  "Catholic" Organization (12+ / 0-)

    Check out the board of Donohoe's organization:

    L. Brent Bozell III, Gerard Bradley, Linda Chavez, Robert Destro, Dinesh D'Souza, Laura Garcia, Robert George, Mary Ann Glendon, Dolores Grier, Alan Keyes, Stephen Krason, Tom Monaghan, Michael Novak, Kate O'Beirne, Thomas Reeves, Patrick Riley, Robert Royal, Russell Shaw, Bill Simon, Paul Vitz and George Weigel.

    Can you imagine a single group of people more creepy than that?!

    I certainly can't.

    If these folks came with me to Our Lady of Czestochowa on Sunday morning, I'm pretty sure the whole place would spontaneously combust out of sheer evil.

    For folks who are interested in the other Catholicism, you know, the one where Christ is the King of Peace and where the meek are blessed, etc., check these sites:

    http://www.paxchristiusa.org/
    http://www.catholicworker.org/

    I recommended your comment. And then I un-recommended it.

    by bink on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:38:08 AM PST

    •  Oh, jeez. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      poemless, anotherdemocrat

      I can't imagine a room that could contain D'Souza and Keyes as people responsible for an organization.  Not surprising that there isn't a single actual catholic bishop or priest in there.  It's an organization for people USING catholic identity for partisan politics, and anyone who really cares for the church would steer a wide berth.

      The more meta, the more bettah.

      by Inland on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:47:18 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Unfortunately (4+ / 0-)

        John Paul II made some very big mistakes in appointments of American bishops during his tenure.  In fact, many, if not most currently serving in the U.S. hierarchy these days are supporters of Donohoe and his ilk.  My religion is being wingnut-ized.  It's pretty sad.

        I recommended your comment. And then I un-recommended it.

        by bink on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:51:36 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'll agree to this extent (0+ / 0-)

          I think the bishops are so used to being ignored that when a republican protestant comes to them and asks for some sort of conservative statement, they are so flattered that they ignore that they are being used by people who actually detest them and their practices.

          I couldn't believe that protestants got away with slamming Kerry for almost being refused communion when each and every single one of them would be refused communion.  The bishops did nothing but fuel the rumors, thereby elevating the people who wouldn't follow any of their teachings over the guy who followed almost all of them.

          A fantasy was if Kerry would, sadly, join a protestant church.  Then he would be on the same footing as the rest of the protestants.  What would they say, then?  "Welcome"?  Or "Well, there's protests and there's protests".
           

          The more meta, the more bettah.

          by Inland on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 12:44:05 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  HOw does that bait taste? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizen53, okrahoma, TomP, inevitibility

    Congratulations, you, MyDD, Atrios and every other blogger demanding a speficic response to this crap have taken the right wing bait AGAIN.

    INstead of talking about Edwards's health care plan, you are now engaged in a full on blog freakout about something entirely irrelevant.

    Hurray!!!  You did it again.

    JRE 2008
    "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
    -John Edwards

    by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:43:25 AM PST

    •  Wrong (8+ / 0-)

      Sorry, DFL -- we're trying to make sure that Edwards doesn't back down and look weak.  That's important.  If he stands strong here, I'll respect even more than I do now.  If he caves . . . I'll be disappointed.

      The show is an animated comedy about three detectives in the shape of human-sized food products that live together in a rental house in New Jersey

      by Jake McIntyre on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:55:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  good to see you Trapper John (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP

        I thought I was the only Methuseleh left around here.

        JRE 2008
        "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
        -John Edwards

        by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:00:50 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  I'm a spring chicken (5+ / 0-)

          compared to you, with your two-digit UID.

          In all seriousness -- I was really impressed when Edwards hired some bold voices for his blog, even though I don't necessarily agree with them all the time.  It seemed to me to be in the spirit of his activist campaign.  If he were to toss them to the curb now, just because of some wingnut bitching . . . like I said, I'd be disappointed.

          The show is an animated comedy about three detectives in the shape of human-sized food products that live together in a rental house in New Jersey

          by Jake McIntyre on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:12:32 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  The hire really spoke (3+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Adam B, anotherdemocrat, TomP

            of an interest in taking risks and engaging in conversations.  Elizabeth and Cate know the blogs, and so does Matt Gross and the rest of the online staff.  They must have known this would come.  I imagine that they couldn't care less when it was just the unofficial League and Malkin, but now that it's made the MSM, I think, and hope, they'll come out soon with something.

          •  And I was impressed (0+ / 0-)

            with my own 4 digit UID -- I feel like an infant next to the two of you.

            I personally think the idea of the Immaculate Conception is a crock -- does that make me anti-Catholic? No, it makes me a non-Catholic. I also vehemently disagree with the Catholic Church's teachings on birth control -- does that make me anti-Catholic? No, it makes me a non-Catholic.

            Whatever Donohue wants the Vatican to teach Catholics is no skin off my nose...but don't go forcing us Protestants and other heathens to toe the same line.

            Oh, and if Edwards caves in to pressure and fires Amanda and Melissa (or if they're forced to resign), my opinion of Edwards will drop dramatically -- I'll be forced to wonder who else he'll cave in to in the future...

            •  with my two-digit ID (0+ / 0-)

              I was around just after the birth of Jesus.  Sorry I can't shed light on the conception issue, though...

              JRE 2008
              "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
              -John Edwards

              by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:02:02 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

      •  Should Edwards' just ignore the substance... (0+ / 0-)

        of the allegations?

        •  These statements (0+ / 0-)

          were made long before they were hired by the campaign -- even before Edwards announced that he was running.

          Or do you want your employer to call you in and say, "Hey, we just found out that you wrote XYZ on Daily Kos before we hired you, so get your ass out of here!" There'd be a helluva lot more unemployment, that's for sure.

          If the Edwards campaign isn't going to stand up for the rights of free speech by private citizens (again remember that Amanda and Melissa weren't working for the Edwards campaign when they made their comments), then we can just punch another hole in the Constitution...

      •  This big ole' Edwards Kossack (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TomP, inevitibility

        completely agrees and has pushed the campaign on their blog and in every way I know how to stand by Amanda and Melissa.

      •  I'm with TJ on this one... (0+ / 0-)

        And if you remember, at one time, DFL, it was only you and I banging the Edwards drum back in the early days.

        Even if the rumor reported by Salon turns out to be just that, rumor, Edwards has taken a huge hit by not coming straight out and issuing a very, very short statement - "I stand with Amanda and Melissa.  Next."

        Then he could have moved on to his healthcare initiative.  But he's the one (or the campaign), with all the hemming and hawing, who sabotaged all the good press he could have received over his proposals.  

        I've liked and trusted Edwards for many years.  I was even leaning back towards him, as the draft Gore movement floundered.  Now, he may have lost even me.

    •  It's not irrelevant when the NYT asks about it. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      CAL11 voter, LV Pol Girl

      NT

    •  actually (0+ / 0-)

      Edwards commissioned those Lite Brite displays in Boston to further al Qaeda's aims to take over Beantown.
      There, we now have 2 nonstories to tie together. I will get the house sale in there later.

  •  Donohue's got the biggest mouth out there. (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sexton, jre2k8

    The very fact of laymen feeling that the large public organization like the RC hierarchy isn't sufficiently strident shows that it's a political, non-catholic organization.  He's basically another tool for making right wing attackers look like victims and like big tent people.

    The more meta, the more bettah.

    by Inland on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:44:06 AM PST

    •  I was recalling... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      sexton, jre2k8

      ...Donohue's visit to the Colbert Report. I think Stephen was taken back at his pompous, loud-mouth demeanor, didn't Donohue take out a ruler and swat the desk?. The man truly is a bully. I guess that's who some Catholics want to represent them.

      Gore/{SpaceForRent}

      by MichaelPH on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:48:26 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Nedra Pickler (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oregon Bear, philgoblue, TomP

    Has posted one anti-Edwards story after another for AP.  She should be moved off his campaign.

  •  Raises my estimation of Edwards considerably (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    anotherdemocrat, TomP, inevitibility

    I was critical of ShakesSis for agreeing to work for Edwards, considering his anti-gay positions.

    I still am, somewhat, but there is something to be said for judging someone by their enemies.

    I note that Donohue is careful to say that Edwards is a good man, so he hasn't quite made the cut, yet, but we are reaching a decision point.

    The lesson here is that you can't maintain a "moderate" position no matter how hard you try - eventually you have to side with one side or the other.

    We are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy unless it obstructs interstate commerce. - J. Edgar Hoover

    by tiponeill on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:48:11 AM PST

  •  The networks are afraid that Exxon (0+ / 0-)

    will dock their gas privileges.

    EEK! Maybe They'll turn off ABC's lights!! That'd fix 'em!  We'd be better off!!

    (moral compass:-7.63,-6.21) (world view: 9,1)

    by ezdidit on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 09:50:23 AM PST

  •  Edwads is doing just fine (0+ / 0-)

    I think he has been leading in the netroots and his consideration to the potenial of bloggers being a very viable part of his campaign.

    I am glad he sees the importance of the workings of the netroots.

  •  Nedra PRickler??? Oh how I've missed her! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sexton, jre2k8

    Like a really nasty case of diarrhea, approximately.

    Damn George Bush! Damn everyone that won't damn George Bush! Damn every one that won't put lights in his window and sit up all night damning George Bush!

    by brainwave on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:13:55 AM PST

  •  Great Commentary of this at CultureKitchen (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Oregon Bear, anotherdemocrat, TomP

    Liza Sabater, The swiftboating of John Edwards Political Courage

    Liza's article is so good you should just go over and read it yourself, but in brief:

    This is the reason the John Donohoues of the extreme right are so scared. People like him have made it a sport to use and abuse women and the young to advance their agendas of power and greed.

    John Edwards hiring of Marcotte and McEwan sends them [right-wing extremists like the unofficial Catholic League] a strong message of how he will not wear that leash for the sake of political power.

    It is clear this scuffle over Marcotte and McEwan is a test of the integrity Edwards called for during his speech when he said, "This is not the time for politicalcalculation, this is the time for political courage".

    John Edwards in 2008 is not the John Edwards of 2004. He is a completely different man. Burnt in the pyre of political comformism, he has risen from the ashes and has come out as an unstoppable powerhouse of progressive action.

    "We don't need to redefine the Democratic party, we need to reclaim the Democratic Party", were his closing words at the DNC winter meeting.

    Those words earned another long standing ovation because this country is ready for political courage and John Edwards has plenty to spare.

  •  Bill Donohue,,, should be in jail (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    tbrucegodfrey, anotherdemocrat

    for aiding and abetting the cover-up of child abuse. Look at his record when the catholic priest child abuse stories was beginning to break into the media.

    If he is against you, then you are doing something correct.

  •  Is this all they have on Edwards? (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, anotherdemocrat, TomP

    It's pretty weak, in fact, it's lame.

    Just watch though, every legit Dem candidate will be given an 'issue' just like this before the season is out. It's how they do it.

    The right dominates the MSM media narrative.  

    Verify before Rec'ing a diary. Click username. Check prior diaries and comments. Ask yourself: is this a trustworthy user?

    by joel3000 on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:33:45 AM PST

  •  being complained about by Bill Donohue (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, TomP

    is a badge of honor - must mean this person wrote something intelligent & insightful.

    We have done the impossible & that makes us mighty - Firefly

    by anotherdemocrat on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 10:35:23 AM PST

  •  Catholic League? So What...? (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jre2k8, anotherdemocrat, sable, TomP

    The Corporate Media operatives pushing this non-story ought to explain why a complaint from the right-wing Catholic League merits a newswire story.

    The Catholic League was a leader in the conspiracy of silence that emboldened child sex predators within the Catholic Church. The still oppose laws requiring priests to comply with mandated reporting of sex crimes against children, criticizing those who protect children from pedophile priests as "anti-Catholic."

    Why on earth does the corporate media take these haters seriously?

  •  I see "Edwards wants to raise taxes" stories (0+ / 0-)

    all over the web.  It stems from his wrong phrasing of a question on "Meet the Press" about his health care proposal.  From what I can tell he wants to use the funds that come in when the Bush tax cuts are "not renewed," which technically does NOT amount to a tax increase.  Those tax cuts were meant to be TEMPORARY in nature, were never meant to be permanent, would have never passed Congress had they been sold as permanent tax cuts.  Not renewing them can not credibly classified as a "Tax increase."   Yet, he used the term "tax increase," causing a media frenzy.    

    You DON'T let the media define you.  Don't use terms that can be exploited, ESPECIALLY if you don't even mean them in a technical way.  Say ALL THE TIME:  "I am not going to raise taxes, just not renew the "temporary" tax cuts Bush put in place."  Case closed, no issue.  

    Why Edwards or his team have not come out to clarify this "I want to raise your taxes" meme is beyond me.  

    •  better yet (0+ / 0-)

      I'm not going to change present tax.

    •  Taxes are not a bad thing (0+ / 0-)

      They pay for roads, schools, and every other thing that is important for us.

      Yes, the tax cuts were meant to be permanent... at least that is what Bush hoped to do.

      I think the Tax Cuts/Raise should be an issue entirely reframed into something more like: "Taxes are good!"

      •  Most people believe we are already taxed too high (0+ / 0-)

        Not that I concur, we are one of the least taxed developed countries in the world (look at Europe) and it shows when it comes to the "social net."  But, the meme is there, especially when it comes to raising taxes "for all," even the middle- and lower middle-classes, which are already getting squeezed by high costs of housing, insurance, gas, etc.

        Calling for tax-increases that will hit the middle-class directly to pay for a program is political suicide in a presidential race.

        •  Pay now, or pay later (0+ / 0-)

          I'm not saying the middle class should be taxed more.

          Far from it.  We need to close up loopholes, raise the cap on SS, and add more percentiles to the tax table to make it progressive again.

          But we really need to erase the tax boogeyman.

          I read a terrific article in TNR about Denmark and their social system. It's archived but it explained a lot about the Danish welfare system.  (Denmark: the shiny future of U.S. liberalism).  In a nutshell, if people perceive getting value from their taxes, they mind paying them less.

          •  That is true for most of Europe (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            roseba

            I used to live in Germany, and people in general did not mind paying about 48% in taxes in exchange for a very tight social net, universal health insurance, paid maternity leave and job guarantee, clean roads, strong welfare system.  However, there HAS been some tightening of those benefits as of late in Germany, Sweden, Spain (not sure about Denmark) because of the abuse factor.  But, in general, people don't mind paying a large share of their income into a tax system that makes them feel protected should they fall on hard times health-wise or economically.  

            In this country, however, higher taxes are a very tough idea to sell, unless it means not renewing the Bush tax-breaks for the rich, which are not that popular.  Most average folks (most Democrats, even) resist higher taxes because they feel there is a lot of waste in government that should be cleaned up first before they are being asked to pony up more taxes.

            Edwards should have phrased it "tightening up tax loopholes and not renewing the temporary tax breaks for the rich" as a means to pay for his Health plan, and it would have gone over smooth.    

  •  Tim Grieve at Salon is reporting (0+ / 0-)

    that Edwards fired them.

    Link.

  •  According to Salon, Edwards fired them (0+ / 0-)

    so as far as I'm concerned, Edwards is not an acceptable candidate any longer.

    Dare I even dream of Gorebamarama in '08?

    by Walt starr on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:09:44 AM PST

  •  Is this type of blog entry fair game? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    crankyinNYC

    Michele Malkin has a quote from Marcotte's blog up now.  Here is an excerpt (attributed to Marcotte):

    One thing I vow here and now–you motherfuckers who want to ban birth control will never sleep. I will fuck without making children day in and out and you will know it and you won’t be able to stop it. Toss and turn, you mean, jealous motherfuckers. I’m not going to be "punished" with babies. Which makes all your efforts a failure. Some non-procreating women escaped. So give up now. You’ll never catch all of us. Give up now.

    Now, the ideas Marcotte expresses are one thing.  The way in which she expresses them are another, it seems to me.  Is calling one's political opponents "motherfuckers" not fair game for commentary?

    Didn't Dick Cheney get rightly criticized for telling Harry Reid to "fuck off" on the Senate floor?

    While Greenwald points out the extremism in the linked blog post, where are examples of comparable profanity?

    Isn't that, in part, what Malkin and others are pointing too?

    •  Dick Cheney kept his job (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      HeavyJ, SS Eye

      remember that?

      JRE 2008
      "We should ask the American people to be patriotic about something other than war."
      -John Edwards

      by DrFrankLives on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 11:50:57 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  He Was Elected (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        johnny rotten, Beowulf

        No one is going to impeach a sitting v.p. for using the "f" bomb, but that doesn't mean you want someone on your staff who curses incessantly in the public domain.  Do I use the "mofo" term with people? Yes. Do I use it in print, or out on the street if there are kids around? No.  Senator Edwards did the right thing.  The use of profanity on blogs is way too prevalent, and profanity is offensive to a lot of people.

        •  good point (0+ / 0-)

          Since the VP is elected, not even the President can fire him.  Were it any other member of the president's staff (except for Rove, has too much dirt on Bush) dropping the f-bomb on a senator-- I think even Bush would ask for his resignation.

      •  But how many here wanted him fired? (0+ / 0-)

        Assuming that was a possibility.

        How many here excoriated him for it?

        Was he right to do it, or wrong?

    •  Is profanity the problem? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      SS Eye

      Cheney told Pat Leahy to "go fuck himself" and was actaully praised by the wingnuttosphere. Hey, at least he put his cards on the table.

      But here's Donohue, the guy who apparently spends time trolling blog posts and has been on countless TV shows and newspaper articles. No profanity, but:

      "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular ... Hollywood likes anal sex."

      •  This not about their standards (0+ / 0-)

        this should be about ours.

        Do you really want someone who uses that kind of ephitet towards their opponents?

        To me, it indicates a level of hatred and venom which I would not want to associate with.

        It is not an answer to say that Donohue has the same type of mindset without the vulgarity.

  •  Your Point Being? (0+ / 0-)

    Most people in the traditional media ("MSM") have too big a megaphone already. You and I apparently are hardly alone in that opinion-consider the popularity of sites like dKos.

    It is not so much the far right exercising power, but the MSM maintaining power by what it does best; shape opinion via the smear.

  •  If Edwards doesn't stand behind his bloggers.. (0+ / 0-)

    ..on this issue, he's lost THIS voter.

    And I favored him over Obama and Clinton.

  •  AAHHHHHHHHHH Forgive me guys (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DrFrankLives, Wandering mind

    I am posting quick here-

    and all of this is flyby observation based on this and other articles I have read recently...............

    What I see between the lines when I read this stuff is an attempt by the media to discredit the blogosphere as a whole. When we respond with angry hate tossing back and forth at each other, we are giving them all the ammo they need to say that any one who Blogs is a no account hick, and need not be taken seriously.

    Is anyone else seeing this?

    The media is playing us all against each other, and we are buying right in.

    If I am wrong, educate me, but do it with a civil tone of blog, Please.

    Back later..............

    •  I agree in part and disagree (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Rob Mac K

      in part.

      It is certainly plausible that persons who are threatened by the competition from bloggers will look to discredit them.

      But, it seems to me that Marcotte is only giving them the ammunition they need to be successful.

      As I said above, this is not about someone else's standards, but our own.

  •  Perfect! (0+ / 0-)

    "Weather this minor storm and stop letting the hypocritical bigots on the right dictate the terms."

  •  I Don't Fault Edwards (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Rob Mac K

    I wouldn't fault Edwards at all for releasing these bloggers - it's simply baggage his campaign doesnt need.  I would hope those of you who have supported him thus far would understand that well enough to not make it a dealbreaker.

    However, he should be faulted for either not doing enough research before hiring them or hiring them if he did.  

    •  But it is his fault... (0+ / 0-)

      I TOTALLY agree...

      But it is a NON_ISSUE! If he caves now, then ANYTHING is fair game and it will be a WORSE onslaught as the wingnuts hammer this for all it's worth and he will have to stay on the defense!

      That was Kerry's strategy, and YOU see where that got him!

  •  "released"? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SS Eye

    Fired.

    He hired people then did not defend them instead let them be humiliated and dropped for doing things he certainly knew about.  Not a good sign.

    Clinton, Gore and Kerry all were portrayed as being wishy washy.  If Edwards will not stand up for 2 recent hires who else will he stand up for.

    This incident makes me look at his Iran comments again.  He is too willing to take criticism and suck up to the wrong people- much like his predicesors.

    If Edwards did fire them he is off my list.  Not for selfish reasons but because it means he is not ready for prime time.  This is NOTHING compared to what they will have ready for the Democratic nominee.  

  •  I once saw the head of this group... (0+ / 0-)

    (Catholic League) on MSNBC refer to homosexuals as "fruitcakes".  That guy is certainly no Christian and is in no position to cast judgement on anyone else.

    What a douchebag.

  •  I wrote into the Edwards campaign (0+ / 0-)

    I mentioned to him that he must stand strong and not listen to the nuts. I also wrote that bending to the nuts will not look good to the progressive base.

    Let him hear from you!

  •  Marcotte is a bigot with no self control (0+ / 0-)

    Why on earth would the Edwards campaign think hiring her was a good move?

    If you're running a political campaign, you can't hire folks that are viciously intolerant of religion and have no sense of restraint or self control.

    The fact that he didn't recognize this simply underscores his weakness as a candidate.

    Once you've hired the person, there is no good way out.

    "Will you fire the anti-catholic bigot?"

    Let's see, you say yes, and look weak. You say no, and look like you hate catholics.

    And if I'm hard on Marcotte, it's because she's reinforcing the 'foulmouthed blogger with no self control and more anger than sense' sterotype the media likes to push.

    "Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth." -- JFK

    by Tryptophan on Wed Feb 07, 2007 at 02:40:04 PM PST

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