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Just how tired are you of "Christians" (not Christians, but "Christians") shoving the pieces of their Bible they like down your throat, while hypocritically ignoring the rest?  My cartoon site is called Hypnocrites because I finally conclued the only way they could be so blatantly hypocritical, without getting laughed off the world stage, is some sort of mass hypnosis.

Should we make gay marriage illegal because the Bible says so?  First, I don't think it actually says that, but if we are going to go all Biblical in our family law, maybe we should look at:

1 Kings 11:3

א  וְהַמֶּלֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹה, אָהַב נָשִׁים נָכְרִיּוֹת רַבּוֹת--וְאֶת-בּ ;ַת-פַּרְעֹה:  מוֹאֲבִיּוֹת עַמֳּנִיּוֹת אֲדֹמִיֹּת, צֵדְנִיֹּת חִתִּיֹּת.  1 Now king Solomon loved many foreign women, besides the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;  
ב  מִן-הַגּוֹיִם, אֲשֶׁר אָמַר-יְהוָה אֶל-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לֹא-תָבֹאוּ בָהֶם וְהֵם לֹא-יָבֹאוּ בָכֶם, אָכֵן יַטּוּ אֶת-לְבַבְכֶם, אַחֲרֵי אֱלֹהֵיהֶם--בָּה ֶם דָּבַק שְׁלֹמֹה, לְאַהֲבָה.  2 of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel: 'Ye shall not go among them, neither shall they come among you; for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods'; Solomon did cleave unto these in love.  
ג  וַיְהִי-לוֹ נָשִׁים, שָׂרוֹת שְׁבַע מֵאוֹת, וּפִלַגְשִׁים, שְׁלֹשׁ מֵאוֹת; וַיַּטּוּ נָשָׁיו, אֶת-לִבּוֹ.  3 And he had seven hundred wives, princesses, and three hundred concubines; and his wives turned away his heart.  
ד  וַיְהִי, לְעֵת זִקְנַת שְׁלֹמֹה, נָשָׁיו הִטּוּ אֶת-לְבָבוֹ, אַחֲרֵי אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים; וְלֹא-הָיָה לְבָבוֹ שָׁלֵם עִם-יְהוָה אֱלֹהָיו, כִּלְבַב דָּוִיד אָבִיו.  4 For it came to pass, when Solomon was old, that his wives turned away his heart after other gods; and his heart was not whole with the LORD his God, as was the heart of David his father.  
ה  וַיֵּלֶךְ שְׁלֹמֹה--אַחֲרֵ י עַשְׁתֹּרֶת, אֱלֹהֵי צִדֹנִים; וְאַחֲרֵי מִלְכֹּם, שִׁקֻּץ עַמֹּנִים.  5 For Solomon went after Ashtoreth the goddess of the Zidonians, and after Milcom the detestation of the Ammonites.  
ו  וַיַּעַשׂ שְׁלֹמֹה הָרַע, בְּעֵינֵי יְהוָה; וְלֹא מִלֵּא אַחֲרֵי יְהוָה, כְּדָוִד אָבִיו.  {ס}  6 And Solomon did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father. {S}  
ז  אָז יִבְנֶה שְׁלֹמֹה בָּמָה, לִכְמוֹשׁ שִׁקֻּץ מוֹאָב, בָּהָר, אֲשֶׁר עַל-פְּנֵי יְרוּשָׁלִָם; וּלְמֹלֶךְ, שִׁקֻּץ בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן.  7 Then did Solomon build a high place for Chemosh the detestation of Moab, in the mount that is before Jerusalem, and for Molech the detestation of the children of Ammon.  
ח  וְכֵן עָשָׂה, לְכָל-נָשָׁיו הַנָּכְרִיּוֹת, מַקְטִירוֹת וּמְזַבְּחוֹת, לֵאלֹהֵיהֶן.  8 And so did he for all his foreign wives, who offered and sacrificed unto their gods.  
ט  וַיִּתְאַנַּף יְהוָה, בִּשְׁלֹמֹה:  כִּי-נָטָה לְבָבוֹ, מֵעִם יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל, הַנִּרְאָה אֵלָיו, פַּעֲמָיִם.  9 And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared unto him twice,  
י  וְצִוָּה אֵלָיו, עַל-הַדָּבָר הַזֶּה, לְבִלְתִּי-לֶכֶ& #1514;, אַחֲרֵי אֱלֹהִים אֲחֵרִים; וְלֹא שָׁמַר, אֵת אֲשֶׁר-צִוָּה יְהוָה.  {פ}  10 and had commanded him concerning this thing, that he should not go after other gods; but he kept not that which the LORD commanded. {P}  

Note, contrary to some rather convenient interpretations, Solomon didn't get in trouble for bigamy, but for turning away from God.

But wait, it gets better.  If gay marriage is against the rules, what do you think of incest?  And remember, Lotand his family were the BEST Sodom and Gomhorra had to offer. And that doesn't even go to Lot's offer to give his daughters over to gang rape to protect the honor of a couple of strangers.

ל  וַיַּעַל לוֹט מִצּוֹעַר וַיֵּשֶׁב בָּהָר, וּשְׁתֵּי בְנֹתָיו עִמּוֹ, כִּי יָרֵא, לָשֶׁבֶת בְּצוֹעַר; וַיֵּשֶׁב, בַּמְּעָרָה--הוּ א, וּשְׁתֵּי בְנֹתָיו.  30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar; and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.  
לא  וַתֹּאמֶר הַבְּכִירָה אֶל-הַצְּעִירָה, אָבִינוּ זָקֵן; וְאִישׁ אֵין בָּאָרֶץ לָבוֹא עָלֵינוּ, כְּדֶרֶךְ כָּל-הָאָרֶץ.  31 And the first-born said unto the younger: 'Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth.  
לב  לְכָה נַשְׁקֶה אֶת-אָבִינוּ יַיִן, וְנִשְׁכְּבָה עִמּוֹ; וּנְחַיֶּה מֵאָבִינוּ, זָרַע.  32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.'  
לג  וַתַּשְׁקֶיןָ אֶת-אֲבִיהֶן יַיִן, בַּלַּיְלָה הוּא; וַתָּבֹא הַבְּכִירָה וַתִּשְׁכַּב אֶת-אָבִיהָ, וְלֹא-יָדַע בְּשִׁכְבָהּ וּבְקוּמָהּ.  33 And they made their father drink wine that night. And the first-born went in, and lay with her father; and he knew not when she lay down, nor when she arose.  
לד  וַיְהִי, מִמָּחֳרָת, וַתֹּאמֶר הַבְּכִירָה אֶל-הַצְּעִירָה, הֵן-שָׁכַבְתִּי אֶמֶשׁ אֶת-אָבִי; נַשְׁקֶנּוּ יַיִן גַּם-הַלַּיְלָה, וּבֹאִי שִׁכְבִי עִמּוֹ, וּנְחַיֶּה מֵאָבִינוּ, זָרַע.  34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the first-born said unto the younger: 'Behold, I lay yesternight with my father. Let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.'  
לה  וַתַּשְׁקֶיןָ גַּם בַּלַּיְלָה הַהוּא, אֶת-אֲבִיהֶן--יָי ;ִן; וַתָּקָם הַצְּעִירָה וַתִּשְׁכַּב עִמּוֹ, וְלֹא-יָדַע בְּשִׁכְבָהּ וּבְקֻמָהּ.  35 And they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose, and lay with him; and he knew not when she lay down, nor when she arose.  
לו  וַתַּהֲרֶיןָ שְׁתֵּי בְנוֹת-לוֹט, מֵאֲבִיהֶן.  36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.  
לז  וַתֵּלֶד הַבְּכִירָה בֵּן, וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ מוֹאָב:  הוּא אֲבִי-מוֹאָב, עַד-הַיּוֹם.  37 And the first-born bore a son, and called his name Moab--the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.  
לח  וְהַצְּעִירָה גַם-הִוא יָלְדָה בֵּן, וַתִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ בֶּן-עַמִּי:  הוּא אֲבִי בְנֵי-עַמּוֹן, עַד-הַיּוֹם.  {ס}  38 And the younger, she also bore a son, and called his name Ben-ammi--the same is the father of the children of Ammon unto this day. {S}  

Do you think that was bad?  There's more. Everybody remembers the story of Abraham offering to sacrifice his son, and God sending an angel to stop him.  But do you remember Jepthah?  He gave his virgin daughter as a sacrifice.  This is a bit of a funny aside, by the way- the big tragedy wasn't her death, but the fact that she was burned alive as a virgin.

ל  וַיִּדַּר יִפְתָּח נֶדֶר לַיהוָה, וַיֹּאמַר:  אִם-נָתוֹן תִּתֵּן אֶת-בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן, בְּיָדִי.  30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said: 'If Thou wilt indeed deliver the children of Ammon into my hand,  
לא  וְהָיָה הַיּוֹצֵא, אֲשֶׁר יֵצֵא מִדַּלְתֵי בֵיתִי לִקְרָאתִי, בְּשׁוּבִי בְשָׁלוֹם, מִבְּנֵי עַמּוֹן--וְהָיָה , לַיהוָה, וְהַעֲלִיתִיהו&# 1468;, עֹלָה.  {פ}  31 then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, it shall be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt-offering.' {P}  
לב  וַיַּעֲבֹר יִפְתָּח אֶל-בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן, לְהִלָּחֶם בָּם; וַיִּתְּנֵם יְהוָה, בְּיָדוֹ.  32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hand.  
לג  וַיַּכֵּם מֵעֲרוֹעֵר וְעַד-בֹּאֲךָ מִנִּית עֶשְׂרִים עִיר, וְעַד אָבֵל כְּרָמִים, מַכָּה, גְּדוֹלָה מְאֹד; וַיִּכָּנְעוּ בְּנֵי עַמּוֹן, מִפְּנֵי בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל.  {פ}  33 And he smote them from Aroer until thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto Abel-cheramim, with a very great slaughter. So the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. {P}  
לד  וַיָּבֹא יִפְתָּח הַמִּצְפָּה, אֶל-בֵּיתוֹ, וְהִנֵּה בִתּוֹ יֹצֵאת לִקְרָאתוֹ, בְּתֻפִּים וּבִמְחֹלוֹת:  וְרַק הִיא יְחִידָה, אֵין-לוֹ מִמֶּנּוּ בֵּן אוֹ-בַת.  34 And Jephthah came to Mizpah unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances; and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.  
לה  וַיְהִי כִרְאוֹתוֹ אוֹתָהּ וַיִּקְרַע אֶת-בְּגָדָיו, וַיֹּאמֶר אֲהָהּ בִּתִּי הַכְרֵעַ הִכְרַעְתִּנִי, וְאַתְּ, הָיִית בְּעֹכְרָי; וְאָנֹכִי, פָּצִיתִי פִי אֶל-יְהוָה, וְלֹא אוּכַל, לָשׁוּב.  35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said: 'Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art become my troubler; for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.'  
לו  וַתֹּאמֶר אֵלָיו, אָבִי פָּצִיתָה אֶת-פִּיךָ אֶל-יְהוָה--עֲשֵׂ ;ה לִי, כַּאֲשֶׁר יָצָא מִפִּיךָ:  אַחֲרֵי אֲשֶׁר עָשָׂה לְךָ יְהוָה נְקָמוֹת, מֵאֹיְבֶיךָ--מִב ְּנֵי עַמּוֹן.  36 And she said unto him: 'My father, thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD; do unto me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.'  
לז  וַתֹּאמֶר, אֶל-אָבִיהָ, יֵעָשֶׂה לִּי, הַדָּבָר הַזֶּה:  הַרְפֵּה מִמֶּנִּי שְׁנַיִם חֳדָשִׁים, וְאֵלְכָה וְיָרַדְתִּי עַל-הֶהָרִים, וְאֶבְכֶּה עַל-בְּתוּלַי, אָנֹכִי ורעיתי (וְרֵעוֹתָי).  37 And she said unto her father: 'Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may depart and go down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my companions.'  
לח  וַיֹּאמֶר לֵכִי, וַיִּשְׁלַח אוֹתָהּ שְׁנֵי חֳדָשִׁים; וַתֵּלֶךְ הִיא וְרֵעוֹתֶיהָ, וַתֵּבְךְּ עַל-בְּתוּלֶיהָ עַל-הֶהָרִים.  38 And he said: 'Go.' And he sent her away for two months; and she departed, she and her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.  
לט  וַיְהִי מִקֵּץ שְׁנַיִם חֳדָשִׁים, וַתָּשָׁב אֶל-אָבִיהָ, וַיַּעַשׂ לָהּ, אֶת-נִדְרוֹ אֲשֶׁר נָדָר; וְהִיא לֹא-יָדְעָה אִישׁ, וַתְּהִי-חֹק בְּיִשְׂרָאֵל.  39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed; and she had not known man. And it was a custom in Israel,  
מ  מִיָּמִים יָמִימָה, תֵּלַכְנָה בְּנוֹת יִשְׂרָאֵל, לְתַנּוֹת, לְבַת-יִפְתָּח הַגִּלְעָדִי--אַ רְבַּעַת יָמִים, בַּשָּׁנָה.  {פ}  40 that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year. {P}  

Assume for a moment the Bible says gays can't marry, okay?  Is this really the source we want to turn to for our family law?  Not me.

Originally posted to Palate Press: The online wine magazine on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:27 AM PST.

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Comment Preferences

  •  Tip Jar (45+ / 1-)

    because that's how it's done.

    and if people gripe that everything there is from the "Old Testament" (Christian verbiage), ask them (a) if that's invalid why care about Leviticus, and (b) ask them about Luke 14:26

    If any one comes to me without hating his father 7 and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple.

    A cartoon is worth a thousand words.

    by dhonig on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:27:58 AM PST

  •  It's definitely confusing (14+ / 0-)

    Like, stone disobedient children (deut. 21:18-21)?

    I thought disobedient children were often already stoned?

    Time to consult the Brick Testament.

    "Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth." - Buddha

    by zenbowl on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:34:45 AM PST

  •  An excellent resource... (5+ / 0-)

    Is Barbara Essex's book, "Krazy Kinfolk: Exploring Dysfunctional Families of the Bible."

    Politicians and diapers need to be changed frequently -- often for the same reason.

    by KnowVox on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:35:18 AM PST

  •  i couldn't get past all that crazy english! (0+ / 0-)

    from ukraine...with love

    by memofromturner on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 07:47:30 AM PST

  •  Well done! Thanks! n/t (0+ / 0-)
  •  I have no respect for pick and choose Christians (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    epcraig, vacantlook, Justus

    This religion is heavily edited for public consumption.

    The Old Testament can't be much more than hearsay History, with victories in war attributed to a sky fairy.

    Why do people want to believe in this Old Testament God? And why did God change his ways before the New Testament?

    I do not want to believe in a God that is not sure what is moral himself!

  •  How does this passage read in hebrew? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.
    -- Ezekiel 23:20 (NIV)

    The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa

    by NCrefugee on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:12:23 AM PST

  •  Two out of three? (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    vacantlook, jhritz

    "You shall not make yourself a carved image or any likeness of shall not bow down to them or serve them."
    (Exodus 20:4-5).

    "You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth."
    (Exodus 20:4)

    "And the Lord said to Moses, "Make a seraph (snake) and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it he will recover."
    Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered."
    (Numbers 21:8-9)

    The biggest threat to America is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy... -- Frank Zappa

    by NCrefugee on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:16:04 AM PST

  •  Cheeseburgers and poly-cotton blends... (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    ohwilleke, Irfo, dhonig, LordMike, epcraig, ilyana

    ...are abominations in the eyes of God.

    I'm not going to try to look up the verses just this minute-- it's part of the Mosaic law.  In the King James Version (every thumper's favorite) the verses about same-sex sex is right alongside the verses about meat/dairy and fibers.

    I always think of the Wal-Mart Supercenters with little mini-McDonald's in them as invitations to an Old Testament diety to bring on the fire and brimstone.  It makes me smile; it's my happy sustaining thought when I feel surrounded by hypnocrites (what a perfect coinage).

  •  As for Homosexuality... (0+ / 0-)

    How about Davi and Johnathan?

    •  Just good friends. (0+ / 0-)

      Really.  "Greater than the love of women" and all that "exeeding notwithstanding.

      OK, maybe it's more like Like frat brothers. In the shower room. Heh.

      Blessed are the arrogant...for they shall be really impressed with themselves.

      by homogenius on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 08:55:41 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  When you pick a fight with a Xtian... (0+ / 0-)

    ...ask them if they keep kosher... then start throwing rocks at them when they say no...  make sure you let them know that's what the bible is ordering you to do, and you have no choice.



  •  I'm sure the RR is just dying (0+ / 0-)

    to reintroduce the Biblical rape laws (Deuteronomy 22:23-29):

    "23": If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

    "24": Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

    "25": But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die:

    "26": But unto the damsel thou shalt do nothing; there is in the damsel no sin worthy of death: for as when a man riseth against his neighbour, and slayeth him, even so is this matter:

    "27": For he found her in the field, and the betrothed damsel cried, and there was none to save her.

    "28": If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

    "29": Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

    I first encountered those as a teenager, when I took it upom myself to read the (Protestant) Bible from cover to cover. If the above doesn't make one's blood run cold, there's always this from earlier in the chapter:

    "6": If a bird's nest chance to be before thee in the way in any tree, or on the ground, whether they be young ones, or eggs, and the dam sitting upon the young, or upon the eggs, thou shalt not take the dam with the young:

    "7": But thou shalt in any wise let the dam go, and take the young to thee; that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days.

    Somehow, a religion where it's actually a good thing for rapists to marry their victims and for passersby to steal the contents of birds' nests is one I want to have no control over my life.

    Much other insanity can be found here: The Bible, King James Version


    •  The second reference (0+ / 0-)

      Is really just about collecting eggs and advising against eating the chicken, too (no more eggs for the future)

      Revolutionary words start revolutions

      by Catte Nappe on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:10:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Okay, but (0+ / 0-)

        I didn't think chickens nested in trees (much). Note, too, that it's "well with thee" to take the young from the nest. From the "bird's nest chance to be before thee" bit and the taking of young, it sounds like someone walking through wilderness, not collecting in a hen house, or from domesticated birds, where one would presumably know when they had laid eggs.

        I collected eggs when I lived with my Dad on his farm. It was easy to tell where and when the hens were roosting based on the amount of noise they made.


        •  Not many hen houses around back then (0+ / 0-)

          And probably not an assumption that only chicken eggs were good to eat if you were hungry. A real "free-range" source of eggs.

          One summer in college I worked at an egg farm. It was awful, horrible - hens crammed in cages in huge warehouses. For years I couldn't eat eggs or chicken.

          Revolutionary words start revolutions

          by Catte Nappe on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:15:47 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

    •  That's a real interesting one (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Catte Nappe, ilyana

      for several reasons.  There are several place in the Hebrew Bible where there are restrictions against destroying more than one generation.  Some would say that is the meaning of 'don't boil a kid in it's mother's milk,'  because the Hebrew (which doesn't include vowels) could also be interpreted "mother's oil."  In other words, don't kill both generations.  However, because the Bible is supposed to be the literal AND PERFECT word of God, it is not interpreted that way because it says elsewhere not to kill more than one generation, and it is presumed not to be redundant.

      Interesting, eh?

      A cartoon is worth a thousand words.

      by dhonig on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:34:23 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  The classic smackdown... (8+ / 0-)

    Dear Dr. Laura:

    Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's law. I have learned a great deal from you, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to best follow them.

    When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. How should I deal with this?
    I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as it suggests in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
    I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
    Lev. 25:44 states that I may buy slaves from the nations that are around us. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans but not Canadians. Can you clarify?
    I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
    A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 10:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
    Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

    I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

    Blessed are the arrogant...for they shall be really impressed with themselves.

    by homogenius on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:00:45 AM PST

  •  You didn't even scratch the surface of the Bible (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Of all the rules on killing your children for disobedience.

    But we now live in a different "Dispensation" so none of these laws apply.

    However, the TIMELINE of a young earth being 6,000 years old is still a deal breaker.

    I think no other religion attempts to attach dates to their religion, even though we were among the last people to have a working calender.

    So eveything from the Old Testament was discarded but part the Commandments and the timeline.

  •  The obvious solution of course (0+ / 0-)

    is the doctrine that says that Jesus provided a "New Covenant" that ditched all the OT laws, at least for Gentiles.

    Since the NT is seeped in anti-gay hate anyway, those who take that position can have a greater measure of intellectual consistency.

    Of course, those who take that view should not try to use the OT as definitive guidance on spiritual matters, but do so anyway.

    "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities" -- Voltaire

    by ohwilleke on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 09:05:04 AM PST

  •  There are great arguments to be made here, but... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Catte Nappe, jhritz

    I don't think these are all them.

    The bigamy discussion I agree with- it's absolutely supported in the Bible, and isn't forbidden even in Rabbinic law until the medieval period.

    The incest discussion there, however, is way off, and misses the point wholly.  The main point isn't that Lot's daughters have children with their father- it's that the Amonites and Moabites are descended from incest.  Those are two of the tribes that the Israelites are fighting later on in the Bible.  It's a rather clever use of dehumanization, actually, but it's clearly not a positive trait.

    And if you want to get into child sacrifice, realize that that's a cornerstone of Christian theology, Jephtah and Abraham aside.  "For our sake he was crucified"...?  The only son of God, sent down to be sacrificed?

    •  dehumanization (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      The incest discussion there, however, is way off, and misses the point wholly.  The main point isn't that Lot's daughters have children with their father- it's that the Amonites and Moabites are descended from incest.  Those are two of the tribes that the Israelites are fighting later on in the Bible.  It's a rather clever use of dehumanization, actually, but it's clearly not a positive trait.

      Very good point.  Some scholars have argued that the story was made up as a slander of the Amonites and Moabites.  I included it because our kids are still told stories of Lot, and how he and his family were the only ones worth saving, and the tale is pretty sordid.  That, and it was fun to draw- trying to keep the family resemblance and all.

      A cartoon is worth a thousand words.

      by dhonig on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:01:59 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  And the child (0+ / 0-)

        sacrifice story was around the same time as the arguments against Phoenician influence (remember Jezebel?).  The Phoenicians' worship of Baal was said to have included child sacrifice (though that has since been disputed -- thought more likely to have been Greek, Israelite and, later, Roman propaganda against them).   Like Abraham and Issac, the story may have been more allegorical than historical.  

        Either way, loved the cartoons.


        Have you read the UN's Climate Change Roadmap yet?

        by jhritz on Wed Feb 28, 2007 at 10:57:52 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

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