Earlier this week, Amy Goodman interviewed Wes Clark at the 92nd St. Y in NYC. This is the second section of that hour long conversation. The rush transcript and links to audio are available at Democracy Now!. A complete transcript will be available soon, both there and at Securing America.
In this section, Clark responds to questions concerning the prison at Guantanamo Bay and the Military Commissions Act, impeachment and war crimes.
In yesterday's overly long diary Clark discusses the Irag and Iran, $75 million approriated for regime change, and John Negroponte. Among other things.
Let's get started.
On the prison at Guantanamo Bay and the Military Commissions Act.
AG: If Congress cut off funds for the prison there [Guantanamo Bay], it would be closed. Should they?
WKC: Well, I think the first thing Congress should do is repeal the Military Commissions Act. I’m very disturbed that a number of people who are looking at the highest office in the land have supported an act which advertently or inadvertently authorizes the admission into evidence of information gained through torture. That's not the America that I believe in. And the America that I believe in doesn't detain people indefinitely without charges. So I’d start with the Military Commissions Act.
Then I’d get our NATO allies into the act. They've said they don't like Guantanamo either. So I’d like to create an international tribunal, not a kangaroo court of military commissions. And let's go back through the evidence. And let's lay it out. Who are these people that have been held down there? And what have they been held for? And which ones can be released? And which ones should be tried in court and convicted?
You see, essentially, you cannot win the war on terror by military force. It is first and foremost a battle of ideas. It is secondly a law enforcement effort and a cooperative effort among nations. And only as a last resort do you use military force. This president has distorted the capabilities of the United States Armed Forces. He's used our men and women in uniform improperly in Guantanamo and engaged in actions that I think are totally against the Uniform Code of Military Justice and against what we stand for as the American people.
On impeachment and the Senate Intelligence Committee’s investigation into misused intelligence.
AG: Do you think that President Bush should be impeached?
WKC: Well, I think we ought to do first thing's first, which is, we really need to understand and finish the job that Congress started with respect to the Iraq war investigation. Do you remember that there was going to be a study released by the Senate, that the senator from Iowa or from Kansas who was the Republican head of the Senate Intelligence Committee was going to do this study to determine whether the administration had, in fact, misused the intelligence information to mislead us into the war with Iraq? Well, I’ve never seen that study. I’d like to know where that study is. I’d like to know why we’ve spent three years investigating Scooter Libby, when we should have been investigating why this country went to war in Iraq.
[This last surprised me. Wes Clark, meet L C Johnson, Occam’s Hatchet, et. al., who have some interesting things to say about Valerie Plame, Brewster Jennings and Middle East intelligence. He must not spend all his time reading diaries. Heh.]
On Donald Rumsfeld, war crimes and torture.
AG: The Center for Constitutional Rights has filed a complaint against Donald Rumsfeld, General Miller and others in a German court, because they have universal jurisdiction. Do you think that Donald Rumsfeld should be tried for war crimes?
WKC: Well, I’d like to see what the evidence is against Rumsfeld. I do know … there was a lot of pressure put on the men and women in uniform to come up with intelligence. … I think it was either General Sanchez or General Abizaid, who stated that we don't need more troops -- this is the fall of 2003 -- we just need better information. Well, to me, that was immediate code words that we were really trying to soak these people for information.
And it's only a short step from there to all the kinds of mistreatment that occur at places like Abu Ghraib. So we know that Al Gonzales wrote a couple of really -- or authored, or his people authored and he approved, a couple of outrageous memos that attempted to define torture as deliberately inflicted pain, the equivalent of the loss of a major bodily organ or limb, which is … not an adequate definition of torture. And we know that he authorized, to some degree, some coercive methods … and we know President Bush himself accepted, implicitly in a signing statement to a 2005 act on military detainees, that he would use whatever methods were appropriate or necessary. So there's been some official condoning of these actions.
I think it's a violation of international law and a violation of American law and a violation of the principles of good government in America. There [has] always been evidence of mistreatment of prisoners. Every army has probably done it ... But our country hasn't ever done it as a matter of deliberate policy. George Washington told his soldiers, when they captured the Hessians and the men wanted to run them through, because the Hessians were brutal and ruthless, he said, “No, treat them well.” He said, “They'll join our side.” And many of them did. It was a smart policy, not only the right thing to do, but a smart policy to treat the enemy well. We’ve made countless enemies in that part of the world by the way we've treated people and disregarded them. It's bad, bad policy.
Update: Last week, General Wes Clark and VoteVets.org, launched StopIranWar.com to help stop the Bush Administration from taking us down a path to another war. They need our help. From SecuringAmerica.com
Today, we're launching a web video urging Americans to sign our petition to stop a war with Iran. This will be the first in a series of video blogs we'll be releasing over the next month to help stop George W. Bush from starting another war.
Sign the petition today. Then watch the video, and forward it to everyone you know..... We need to create a movement so large that the Bush Administration will be forced to pay attention.... Only the shared voice of millions of Americans has any chance of stopping a war with Iran... Sign the petition today. Then watch the video, and forward it to everyone you know.
And I would add that, even if the Bush Administration doesn't listen, I think Congress will.