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After a half-hour of self-congratulatory chit-chit with Brooks, Ifill, et. al., about his pal Don Imus, Tim Russert said:

"We were supposed to talk about Alberto Gonzales, and we were supposed to talk about the 2008 race, this was alot more important. We're out of time".

Sure, Timmy, another half-hour of bloviated bullcrap about Imus is more important for America to hear than the most recent crimes revealed by Friday's doc dump about our AG, who is testifying before congress this week.

Good job there, oh keeper of the rightous flame of journalism.

Originally posted to edfreeze on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:34 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

    •  I rarely watch any TV anymore and so (6+ / 0-)

      had never seen Gwen Ifil speak.  I was glad I tuned in to hear her.  Ifil was, indeed, great.  If only she were the face of this discussion!

      We need to change the wind.

      by Naniboujou on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:45:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  yes, usually she is so "above" politics (8+ / 0-)

      passionate, you bet. She was a Gwen I'd never seen before. I could care less that they bumped the discussion of the 2008 Candidates (yawn). It would have been nice to see some USA disucssion, but this was so much better because the debate didn't follow the usual gotcha stuff. I haven't seen this kind of debate on the talking heads show in years, if ever.

      •  not that russert didn't try the gotcha stuff (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oysterface

        but Gwen managed to knock that out of the ballpark as well. I had to grin when russert brought up imus on the cover of newsweek being such an indicator of the relavence of imus, then Gwen told him about newsweek being the ultimate enabler of imus, then piled on by pulling out after everyone else did. I wish she would have developed that enabling process that newsweek did, because it sure didn't seem like russert understood the point.  russert didn't seem to get it throughout the show, anyway.  I think harwood did. brooks displayed his ususal bobo cluelessness.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 11:08:29 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  I Hope Clip Shows Up Somewhere (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Bob Johnson, oysterface

      It aired in Seattle live realtime at 6am, but I see a sister UHF station repeats it at 10 local time. I'll try to catch it but frankly this is one partly sunny day before a coming week of typical Pacific North Wet so I may be escaping cabin fever at the time.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:53:19 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  She is clearly (6+ / 0-)

      much more intelligent and clear-headed than the rest of them.

      David Brooks is still an idiot.

    •  I am not a large fan (9+ / 0-)

      of Gwen Ifil but this morning she was really different than I had ever seen before. There was a definate tone of dislike toward David Brooks that was pretty interesting. She beat him up pretty good. I was initially dissapointed not to hear conversation regarding Gonzo but in retrospect this was probably one of the best talking head debates on an important issue that I had seen in a long time. For those that missed you can see it after noon in your time slot on msnbc.com I think. If you google meet the press you will come up with it.

    •  Tim Russert said he would still go on Imus' show. (0+ / 0-)

      after Imus getting fired Russert stated IF Imus had another show, he would return as a guest on his show.

      That is a perfect example why Imus got away with his rampant racism over the years....people like Russert in position of power secretly agree with the views of Imus, they see nothing wrong with what imus said....They think an apology wouldve been enough.

      •  They are friends. Would YOU desert a friend (0+ / 0-)

        when it became politically expedient to do so? If so, then your friendship would have little value.

        That is a perfect example why Imus got away with his rampant racism over the years....people like Russert in position of power secretly agree with the views of Imus, they see nothing wrong with what imus said....

        Rampant racism? Secretly agree? You didn't watch/listen to Imus much, did you. At least you don't seem to know much about his views beyond "what imus said". I don't know of anyone who has condoned what he said, or agreed with it (except maybe some skinheads, KKKers or Ann Coulter)-- nor should they.

        That said, Ifil was great and managed to help bring the debate up to another level. It was a refreshing discussion, mostly void of hysteria.

        We find that after years of struggle we do not take a journey, but rather a journey takes us. John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley

        by tigerdog on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 11:40:24 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  disagree (10+ / 0-)

    It was the best discussion I've seen on MTP in a long long time. I'm so glad he bumped those segments. The panel took the discussion to a whole other level about race in America. Everyone should watch it.

    •  But there was a big gap in the discussion. (5+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Miss Blue, arkylib, citizenx, BB10, jhecht

      I agree that it was a great discussion about "the culture of cruelty" and the "culture of meanness". And it covered "entertainment" that slanders and abuses fellow Americans and then covers itself with the excuse of "comedy".

      But where was the discussion of how this "culture of meanness" has affected political discourse? Where was the name of that radio icon Limbaugh? Of the woman who claims she is just "joking", Ann Coulter? Of the whipping up of cruel frenzy and insult of Liberalism that those political schlockmeisters like Hannity, Savage, Ingraham?

      The right-wing nastiness and vituperation of these appalling "pundits" isn't mentioned; the MTP crowd was carefully herded into a discussion pen bounded by Borat and Snoop Dog as the horrible examples.

      I want to see a discussion of the Rush Limbaughs of the world, not the Ludicrises.

      •  I think there is room for both (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        jhecht

        but you are right that right-wing talk radio was barely discussed. But there was a comment that this would probably bring a new focus on what the types of shows you are concerned with are saying.

      •  Patience, Grasshopper-- (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Louise, oysterface, webranding, dougymi

        It's only been a week or so.

        The right has studiously created and maintained a hostile, abusive public dialogue for a generation and a half. There are millions of Americans who don't know anything different, and many of our pundits have built much of their careers since this environment was first being staged.

        If this becomes truly a moment of change for the personal & demographic smearing --and right now it's showing me all the classic signs of becoming such a moment-- I think it's very likely to translate to political discourse.

        The party that stands for and depends critically on abusive discourse has just lost in historic numbers. If its approval slide continues, if it takes serious legal hits for some of its other activity, this could mark even greater change in our overall discourse.

        The right is up against a brick wall. The public regards more and more of its claims as failure and bullshit. Message wise they're painted into a very tiny corner where they're going to have to become so harsh and extreme that, as we pull back from that atmosphere in other areas, could well drive the public away in Biblical proportions.

        I think we need to keep the pressure on but I think this issue is trending naturally our way at the moment. I'm a guy who usually sees a glass half broken but in this case I'm hopeful.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 09:04:38 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  As A Marketing/Advertising Guy (0+ / 0-)

          I get into a lot of conversations here about messages and how the left can do a better job of "staying" on topic. This whole Imus thing was a week worth of softballs being pitched at them.

          All they had to say, regardless of the question by the talking head was to say: "This isn't about Imus, it is about a culture where the Republicans have made civil discourse a thing of the past. A culture where a popular shock jock, with his show on CBS and MSNBC thinks calling successful, young college students whores is OK."

          But more times then not we missed this opportunity.

          "It is not enough to win, all others must lose," Sun Tzu.

          by webranding on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 09:15:52 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Tim The Terrible (0+ / 0-)

    I was going to talk about issues of war and peace, the economy, health care, and education but I had to discuss my rotisserie baseball team for 30 minutes so I couldn't discuss these issues with you today.

    It's not my fault.  I had to talk about baseball.  I couldn't choose otherwise.  Sorry.

      •  I saw it and had this thought ... (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oysterface

        Oh Tim, what an ass-kissing whore you are.  I agree that it was a good discussion, BUT, it pales in importance to the administration politicizing the Department of Justice.  Far more lives will be impacted in far more serious ways by the outcome of the DOJ scandal then they will if some prominent person somewhere calls some other prominent person somewhere a bigoted name.  REALLY!

        But it serves Whore Timmeh's masters at GE to avoid discussion of what sleazebags the bu$h people are.  GE has done quite well as a result of bu$h's misguided policies and are major players in the emerging fascist state.

        •  I also believe the DOJ (0+ / 0-)

          scandal is really serious. I just don't think Russert would have brought anything new to it other than the he said/she, said strong R/weak D typical way the show goes.

          They are different issues and different scales. "Some people" take the underlying issues more seriously than you do.

          •  Oh, but I have taken the underlying issue quite (0+ / 0-)

            seriously.  I have been in the uncomfortable position of being in a social gathering and having to object to a colleague's inappropriate racial comments that were otherwise going unchallenged.  I have been in the situation of having to request people not tell racist jokes in my presence.  

            [Apparently when they see a man with long hair and beard they assume he is a confederate flag waving redneck biker type who appreciates racist humor.  My hair preferences relate to my spiritual practices, and my attitudes on race and universal brotherhood are a complete 180 from how I am at times stereotyped.]

            I am comfortable with who I am and my core beliefs and attitudes on race.  Despite growing up in the charged racial atmosphere of Baltimore in the 1960's - about which John Waters' Hairspray is a great spoof - I have taken the effort to examine and "unlearn" the early prejudices which were planted in me at that time.  I live my life consistent with who I have come to be in this matter.  And part of that means taking a stand in the face of accepted racism.

            That said, I STILL believe the US Attorney scandal is orders of magnitude more important in the greater scheme of things.  And things like this concern me because it is not as "sexy" a topic and is therefore already having a tough time gaining traction in the MSM's reporting.  Timmeh's show is supposed to be about substantive issues of the day.  And today, I believe he whiffed.

  •  I'm Watching "This Week" (11+ / 0-)

    and in the clip they played of Leno (The Sunday Funnies) he said that Bush had called Imus to thank him for getting Iraq off the front page.

    I mean the WH must just love that the talking heads spent the better part of a week talking about Imus instead of Iraq, the AG, et al.

    "It is not enough to win, all others must lose," Sun Tzu.

    by webranding on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:35:21 AM PDT

  •  One of their own got in trouble. (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    melvynny, HighSticking, oxley, BB10, howardx

    The rest of the world's problems go on hold.

    •  a major part of the discussion (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      citizenx, judy99, BB10

      was the culpability of the press and the cultlure of inside the beltway and the Republican as well as Democrats that went on the show and why they are just now realising that was wrong. Timmy even admitted guilt!

      •  It was a good discussion (5+ / 0-)

        I just wish that they would cover with equal zeal some of the other major problems facing this country.

        One person commented on the show how she raced to turn off Imus because she was afraid her African American housekeeper would hear it. How damning is that? She only finds him offensive if someone else is in earshot? Imus was porn that all those people contributed to and enjoyed.

        The cocktail circuit will be very uncomfortable for the next couple of weeks.

        •  George Will Almost Got the Conversation (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          citizenx, tigerdog

          there. Now I need to say I am a white dude so I am no expert on the African American community. But George tried to get the conversation going in this direction. He mentioned that 70% of African American children grow up without a father in the house.

          I would have hoped they would have talked about the large number of blacks in jails for drug "crimes." The terrible schools they go to in the inner city. Lack of health care or affordable housing. The list could go on and on.

          I just feel there is an entire generation of African American children getting left behind and I find that pretty darn sad.

          But instead they talked about an over the hill radio jock. Go figure.

          "It is not enough to win, all others must lose," Sun Tzu.

          by webranding on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:59:56 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I too was waiting for Will to "get it" (0+ / 0-)

            he almost said what the whole thing is all about.

            The totally innocent women of the basketball team, despite overcoming incredible odds to get to where they are now, were called whores for no reason whatsoever.

            Will almost said it.

          •  I've Read That Beginning In 70's or Maybe Reagan (0+ / 0-)

            that the proportion of blacks imprisoned, vs whites, became exactly inverted. Basic black crime rate didn't change especially, but the imprisonment rate shot up for blacks and declined for whites.

            An absolutely apalling trend if it's true. It's a little outside my expertise and time to check up on.

            And if true it would "illuminate" that Republican talking point about all the missing black fathers, to some extent.

            We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

            by Gooserock on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 09:12:47 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  It wasn't a trend, it was a plan... (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              HighSticking

              in response to greater voting opportunities for blacks after the civil rights era. The whole getting tough on crime bit was just another way to attack on of the largest segments of the opposition party. Get them off the streets and off the voting rolls.

  •  The dismantling of the... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx, oxley

    Department of Justice is more important by magnitudes than another rehashing of Imus' idiotic maunderings.

    •  A short little ditty I'm posting various places: (0+ / 0-)

                  Onward Christian Lawyers

      Onward Christian lawyers, marching into court,
      With the cross of george bu$h, justice to distort,
      Rove, our sleazy master, leads against the foe,
      Prosecute those Democrats and see our legions grow.

      Onward Christian lawyers, marching into court,
      With the cross of george bu$h, justice to distort,

      When there's an election, help the GOP,
      Help you Christian lawyers, bring us victory.
      And if the lib'rul media, catches on to us,
      Watch out Christian lawyers, there's room under the bus.

      Onward Christian lawyers, marching into court,
      With the cross of george bu$h, justice to distort,

      A-hem

  •  Tim is so conflicted on this... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    OLinda

    he should recuse himself.

    Those "big Russ" books, which I have not read, so I won't call them the sappy sentimental drek I suspect they are (got it out there anyway--learned that trick from Faux news)--were huge best sellers.

    And that is in part due to Imus' endless flogging about how wonderful they were.

    Did anyone ask Tim if he ever though Imus' venom was going too far and if he ever spoke to him about it, or God forbid, reconsider appearing on the show?

  •  Who will be the big distraction next week? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc

    Anna Nicole Smith.  Then Don Imus.

    Next week?  

    "Great men do not commit murder. Great nations do not start wars." William Jennings Bryan

    by Navy Vet Terp on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 08:44:36 AM PDT

    •  Probably (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      aimeeinkc, dannyinla, flumptytail

      one of the Baldwin brothers.

    •  It wouldn't surprise me to see a high profile (0+ / 0-)

      death somewhere.  I'm still not convinced that darth's black ops squad weren't behind Anna Nicole's sudden demise.  They desperately needed something to keep the Libby trial off the news radar as much as possible.  And she was an excellent choice because there was a lot of conservative anger at her court victory.  After all, giving all that money to some gold-digger instead of letting the sons inherit it all goes against GOP core values.  (Of course those sons didn't have to f**k an 80 year old man to get their money either.)

      I know this sounds like paranoid ravings.  And five years ago I would have ridiculed this theory myself.  Now I find it ... plausible.

  •  Imus has it all (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    citizenx, Naniboujou, oxley

    First off, he's blonde.  Second, he'll now be missing in action.  I wonder if he's going to Aruba.

    The fallback scandal was the Duke lacrosse case--which really is/was about race relations.  But the diarist is correct, anything but the Iraq, Gonzogate, or, heaven forbid, the condition of New Orleans--which is also all about race in America.

  •  I think Gwen Ifill was righteous and eloquent (15+ / 0-)

    Frankly, I thought it was great discussion if for no other reason than she popped the bloviating bubles of both Russert and David Brooks.

    She shamed them.

    And she was right.

    I thought it was terrific.

  •  Then why didn't you just change the channel (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oysterface, ademption, jhecht, mdgarcia

    if Russert did not satisfy your current events priority?

    •  To Where? BBC, CBC? (0+ / 0-)

      It's not like there exists a US mainstream outlet with an intelligent current events menu.

      BTW the Vancover BC radio station led a news hour yesterday with "Vancouver is awash in color as the city celebrates [a Sikh holiday]." All the big local and some national politicians present for the celebrations and to speak, public events going on, yadda yadda.

      I though my God where are our tanks and bombers when we need them to civilize Canada?

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 09:17:25 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Let's hope we hear about the AG next week. n/t (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    aimeeinkc, BB10
  •  Important, but enough already. (0+ / 0-)

    Let's move on to the assault on our democracy.

  •  I disagree, racism remains a big priority (6+ / 0-)

    The discussion on Meet The Press today was one of the best in years.

    The way Gwen Ifill called out Tim Russert and the rest of the Imus enablers and legitamizers was LONG overdue.  She was very elequent.

    •  The Imus issue has received the attention (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tigerdog, dougymi, chapel hill guy

      it deserves. But it has not spilled over into a broader discussion about the conservative talk radio cesspool and why the likes of A-hole Coulter continue to be part of the public discourse. I thought this incident would have been more of a catalyst for this discussion.

      •  the media does NOT want it to go there (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        oxley

        they want it right where it's been, on a discussion about gangsta rap and the moguls that control it. If you hit rush or fox noise, you're hitting members of their own fraternity. If you hit savage or boortz, it's one step away from hitting rush or fox. They don't want it to go in that direction. They want it to go elsewhere, away from their own bailiwick.  Record company moguls aren't part of the DC fraternity. rush is.

        A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams

        by dougymi on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 11:21:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Some imus whore and bitches just dont get it (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oysterface, aimeeinkc

    Like Brooks
    Still tries to mitigate the neferious imus comments.

  •  I'm still pissed!!! (0+ / 0-)

    I sat through 40 minutes of Imus just waiting for the discussion of Alberto Gonzales. I don't think MSM is ever going to report on this. And here in Idaho, I'll be back in Hawaii soon, we didn't even here his "apology" for not discussing the issue!! Instead just a, "Sorry, we're out of time!".

    When the show started he said he would be discussing the subject. Can we sue him for false advertising?

    Attention Waxman Staffers! Clean up on aisle 1600! huttotex 3/27/07

    by reflectionsv37 on Sun Apr 15, 2007 at 11:25:49 AM PDT

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