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Romney won.  Or McCain.  Or Rudy.  As expected, the supporters of each Republican candidate rushed forward, offering empty rhetoric about why their guy won last week's debate.  Most of the detailed, insightful analysis seemed to center on who "looked presidential."  But the none-too-fervent support for these candidates was noticeable even while the debate was still underway, and many pundits quipped that the real winner wasn't on the stage.  It was clear that none of those participating had come close to capturing the imagination of the Republican Party, much less that of the general public.

To borrow a phrase from Rush -- the Republicans are looking for a Magic Neocon.  They don't care if it's Newt the Magic Neocon, or Condi the Magic Neocon.  They just need someone to pull out that magic wand and wave off the crushing sense of doom that hangs over the right.

Many are betting that Fred Thompson is the man they're searching for.  After all, calling everyone in Hollywood a loon, then fawning over any third-rate actor who will give them the time of day, is a Republican tradition.  Sonny Bono, the terminator, the guy who played Gopher on the Love Boat, and don't forget the deified Pharaoh Ronald, in whose golden shrine the debate was held -- ah, for more Republicans like these.  They'd crawl all over the guy who played the body on last week's CSI if he'd only mouth the phrase 'pro-life.'  On the right-leaning actor scale, Thompson's a prince.  Besides, he's already played the president, so he certainly has experience at the primary Republican qualification: looking presidential.

Trouble is, what the Republicans are looking for can't be found in Thompson, nor in arch-hypocrite Gingrich, nor even work-wife Rice.  That's because what the Republicans are missing isn't a person, it's a philosophy.

For four decades, the right has been peddling Rugged Individualist Soap.  If they just had the opportunity to rip the reins away from the liberals (and all the actors who had not provided comic relief to a chimp), they could Set Things Right(tm).  Funny, that's not quite how it worked out. On every front -- every front -- the Republicans turned out to be miserable at turning their points into practice.  "Staggering Incompetence" might as well be the party moto.  The Republicans' problem now isn't that they don't have the right candidate, it's that they still have the right's talking points.  And those talking points are played out.  Like a commercial that's run ten too many times, people are simply tired of it.  

And Thompson?

Fred Thompson fervently backed the Iraq war, railed against an expanding federal government, took stands that occasionally annoyed his party and rarely spoke about his views on social issues during his tenure as a senator from Tennessee or in his writings and speeches since leaving office.

In short, the man some in the GOP are touting as a dream candidate has often sounded like the presidential hopeful many of them seem ready to dismiss: Sen. John McCain.

Sorry, Fred's no Magic Neocon.  After all, actors have to have a script.  The Republicans don't need more actors -- they need new writers.

Originally posted to Daily Kos on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:21 AM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  i think they need some new actors too (11+ / 0-)

    have you ever seen a whiter bunch of white men than what was on that stage the other night?

    •  I think they need a new look (6+ / 0-)

      Starting with a new haberdashery.  These are the guys who epitomize the term "the suits."  So up right and predictable.  No sense of individual style.  No elegance.  No ease.  

      Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin

      by vigilant meerkat on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:28:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No fair (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        PoliMorf, Dauphin, tucsonlynn

        I like wearing a suit.

        Being a computer geek, I'm expected to dress down for work, but that's just as much a uniform as a suit. If anything, there is more leeway for self expression in a suit.

        To begin with you have your choice of fabric: wool, polyester (a choice after all that makes a statement), linen, even silk. Then there is color, pattern and weave.

        Then there is cut: single or double breasted, single or double vent.  Lots of shoulder padding or  relatively natural.

        Also, you choice of shirt.  A well tailored suit is quite comfortable, and if I had to wear a suit every day I'd probably spring to have custom shirts made.  Then it would be like going to work in my pajamas.

        We haven't even got to shoes or ties.  I once bought my brother in law a beautiful silk tie that was dark blue and covered with little yellow figures that if you looked closely, represnted very pregnant women with little heart icons inside their wombs. I have a tie clip a friend gave to me  that I like to wear.  It was blessed by the abbot of a famous Buddhist temple.

        It's not that it really matters how you dress.  But we should not exchange one kind of orthodoxy for another.

        •  P-s-s-t :::tap, tap::: You just made her point (3+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          vigilant meerkat, Dauphin, betsyross

          All of the tremendous variety available, and what did we get: this bunch(scroll down a bit -- I can't do images). It's not about suits, it's about an appalling lack of original thinking.

          "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

          by carolita on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:45:31 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thank you Carolita (0+ / 0-)

            you are exactly right.  I have no problem with suits and some candidates manage to wear them with some panache and style.  Obama is a great example.  His suits fit him beautifully and seem to flow.  He's also the master when it comes to choosing the right shirt collar -- perfect shape and fit to frame his face.  Style, pure and simple and elegant.

            Compare that with McCain's ill-advised candy-striped tie. Clownish and boring.

            Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin

            by vigilant meerkat on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:30:56 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Did you check out the link? (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vigilant meerkat

              It's to nonnie9999 at her snarky best

              "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

              by carolita on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:55:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  I agree (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              vigilant meerkat

              Obama wears beautiful suits (when he isn't in a "shirtsleeve" pose), and wears them beautifully.  He is so slim that I think he's particularly elegant in a soft shouldered jacket.  I think the candid photos of him with an unbuttoned casual jacket and his trademark grin do a lot more for him than the standard "rolled up shirtsleeves" look.

              Hillary favors long jackets and pants, a look that suits her particularly well with she goes with dark suit and colorful blouse.  She doesn't have Obama's affable charisma, but she is a powerful woman, both in her position and her intellect.   I think that the way she dresses often underlines that, but with a splash of personality added by a brooch or a wide belt.

              I have to say Kucinich's official campaign photograph has to be the most elegant suit on the campaign trail.  It looks like it almost wants to be a tuxedo.

              For somebody who's supposed to be a dandy, Edwards certainly has nondescript taste in suits, although he does the jeans and button shirt thing pretty well.   Senator Biden also favors suits that are nondescript, although the fabric in the photo looks nice.  It's the look that somebody chooses when they don't want to think about their look: very conservative, let quality do the talking.  Unfortunately, it doesn't look right when he takes the tie off.

              •  I'll have to take another look at Kucinich (0+ / 0-)

                He has a small stature, so he must carefully avoid an ill-fitting suit.  He must have a good tailor.  As for Edwards, after the bruhaha over his $400 haircut, he may be trying to tone it down a bit.  His campaign emphasis is the needs of the working class so it's probably not to his benefit to appear in expensively elegant clothes.  Nonetheless, I'm sure knows how to put together an outstanding look. I agree that Hillary seldom makes a misstep, but she will never look as elegant as Pelosi, who has fabulous clothes.

                Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin

                by vigilant meerkat on Sun May 06, 2007 at 01:41:16 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  And yet (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        vigilant meerkat

        Nobody threw any of them down a flight of stairs. Not once.

        This debate obviously did not take place in Minnesota.

        Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame about your kneecaps.

        by AdmiralNaismith on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:57:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Republicans SPEND WAY TOO MUCH (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Thomas Twinnings

          That needs to be the refrain of whichever Democratic candidate we nominate.  During the Clinton years, America followed a policy of fiscal discipline: leaner, more effective government, balanced budgets, and eventually, even budget surpluses.  Democrats need to educate voters about how wasteful the Republican party has been while in power.  

          By hitting the Republicans from the right, Democrats will erode right-wingers' confidence in their own leaders, thereby reduce voter turnout among conservatives, and win the 2008 elections.

          Support the Clinton Foundation HIV/AIDS Initiative http://www.clintonfoundation.org/cf-pgm-hs-ai-home.htm

          by Berkeley Vox on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:43:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Where has all the money gone? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            murasaki

            Who got the money that has driven up a 9 trillion dollar deficit? That should be the refrain.

            Say again and again that it went into the pockets of their cronies. The no bid contracts for Iraq and Katrina, the profits for oil companies who are not paying royalties on the oil and gas they are taking out of federal land, etc.

            If you just say now that the Democrats are going to run a learner government then the average American thinks the little he gets will be cut.

          •  Under the Republicans it has been a massive (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            jrcjr, murasaki

            transfer of public money to corporations and businesses. We need the public to know that they are the ones paying for many of the CEOs who's compensation, since Bush took office, has doubled, tripled, quadrupled.  In particular, but not limited to the military contractors.

      •  It's Not A Question of Style! (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dauphin

        For conservatives their idiotology can never be wrong, it can only be betrayed. Thus, the search for a better standard bearer, preferrably one not tarred with the stench of failure over Iraq.

        Thompson looks good to them because they yearn for another Reagan, He's an actor? Even better!

        They won't revisit their beliefs simply because they're unpopular. They've been unpopular for generations. If people voted their economic self-interest instead of on the basis of personality and empty slogans, the Republican party wouldn't exist.

        But, elections are held on the basis of tribal loyalty, not ideas.

        Since the neo-cons are intent on dragging our country into the sort of hellish "national security state" Israel currently is, it's worth examining Israeli politics for clues to the kind of future Republicans envision.

        In the 2003 elections Aram Mitzna's Labor Party was soundly trounced by the Likud under Ariel Sharon. In that election I remember reading about Mitzna's talking to a small businessman who had been bankrupted by the Likud's economic policies. "Of course I've been put out of business by Likud," he said, "but, I'd NEVER vote for Labor."

        It's the same in the U.S. south. Their tribal identity as southerners outweighs anything else, and has enabled generations of politicians to totally ignore their needs. The infamous parody of cruel frat-boys from Animal House "Thank you sir, may I please have another" might as well be their motto!

    •  I think they should just be cancelled n/t (5+ / 0-)

      Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

      by corwin on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:34:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Hey, here are some Major GOP defectors (4+ / 0-)

      -1.63/ -1.49 "Speaking truth to power"

      by dopper0189 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:48:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I will have to check that out (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Dauphin, phoenixdreamz

        I am guessing Ron Reagan is one of them. But then, I am not sure Ron ever considered himself a Republican. He loved his father but I always got the feeling that he and Patty did not always agree with him on political matters. This is easy to understand as many of us may not agree with our parents' political views but we love them nonetheless.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:36:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I saw that too, and it's not all.. (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Devilstower, wlkx, majcmb1, apark559

        "The Beginning of the End of the Religious Right?" by Cal Thomas.

        In it he states these excerpts:

        "One of the major players in what came to be known as the "Religious Right" in the 1980s has shut its doors. The Center for Reclaiming America, based in Ft. Lauderdale, part of Dr. D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries, has decided to close. It will also shut its Washington, D.C., office known as the Center for Christian Statesmanship.

        Kennedy.. sought to use the political process to reverse the "moral slide" in America. Most of Kennedy's televised messages in recent years have strayed from traditional preaching and focused primarily on politics and social issues.

        Brian Fisher, executive vice president of Coral Ridge Ministries, told the Miami Herald, "We believe that by streamlining the operations we will be able to return to our core focus.. unencumbered by the allures of the political kingdoms of this world.. It does not lie in the Republican Party, with which Kennedy's organization was almost exclusively associated."

        http://www.realclearpolitics.com/...

    •  I think they need Phillip's (0+ / 0-)

      Milk of Magnesia.  They all looked constipated to me!

  •  outing of the true platform (12+ / 0-)

    is what has been more damning in my book. The amount of hate and racism and elitism has finally been exposed more in a mainstream way. People are paying attention this time.

    -8.63 -7.28 Molly "..We want to find solutions other than killing people. Not in our name, not with our money, not with our children's blood."

    by OneCrankyDom on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:22:07 AM PDT

  •  Fred wants to cut Social Security Benefits (13+ / 0-)

    As I diaried yesterday, lobbyist turned third-rate actor Fred Thompson is a frigging idiot, as the LATIMES picked up in their report on his talk to the Lincoln Club

    And he said looming financial crises in the Social Security and Medicare programs were key domestic problems that had not been resolved because Congress lacked the will to do so. Thompson suggested that the solution to the forecast shortfall in Social Security and Medicare might rest in cutting benefits.

    Let's see him go out and campaign on eliminating the estate tax on the richest Americans while cutting social security benefits.

    Thompson is one  more mental midget who doesn't realize that Americans have caught on to the successful class warfare that Thompson and his buddies have been winning.

    I believe that Barack Obama is the transformational candidate that our country desperately needs.

    by Aeolus on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:22:49 AM PDT

    •  Thompson's lack of a stated position... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, J Royce, apark559

      on social issues is probably (regrettably) one of his strongest attributes.  He can be whatever the focus groups and right-wing power gang would like for him to be.  

      McCain had already stated his great animus to the steroidal televangelists.  His attempting to befriend them just looked pathetic and duplicitous.  Thompson, OTOH, can choose to reveal himself to be their friend all along.  What he is probably NOT, however, is a man of conviction and political courage.  

      "We're all working for the Pharoah" - Richard Thompson

      by mayan on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:45:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  true (6+ / 0-)

        what is scary about Thompson is that he could be very malleable to do whatever the Neo Con right wing advisors want him to do. I think he could be easily manipulated. None of his positions are strong but he would be the front man while having dangerous people telling what to do and what to say...much like the Director, Producer tell him what to do on the set of a tv show and the Writers determine the script.

        And I think that is not different at all from Rove and Cheney telling Bush what to say and do.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:43:39 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Thompson's wife - To catch a predator (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      apark559

      His trophy wife is going to be an issue, if he catches on. I would post her pix here, but I would be accused of touting underage cheescake (pie warriors always ready to pounce). Take a gander. I think he met her on "To Catch A Predator."

      •  really? will the Republicans care? (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        DaleA, daulton

        I hope the trophy wife is an issue but Republicans strike me as the type to advocate for men to marry younger, beautiful women.

        I watched a PBS documentary about the Mormons. They expect their wives to be perfect, never gain weight, look beautiful all the time, have lots of kids.

        I hope you are right but Republican men will probably envy and support Thompson's choice of a wife.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:45:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  to clarify (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DaleA, daulton

          I know Thompson is not Mormon and Mitt is but some of what the Mormoms believe about a woman's role of wife and mother and a woman expected to keep her youth and beauty for the man, the religious right faction will hold up Mrs. Thompson as a role model for wives.

          In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

          by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:47:27 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  Not much of an issue (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        daulton, majcmb1

        The same issue probably enhanced Strom Thurmond's status, the old rascal.

        Most Republican men have to rely on Rohypnol to get any.  Show them one of their own who can actually get a young cutie to have sex with him while conscious, and they'll all bow and chant "I'm not worthy".

        Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame about your kneecaps.

        by AdmiralNaismith on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:05:33 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  that just lost Florida (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, majcmb1

      for the GOP if Thompson should be the nominee.
      There goes Florida and PA and other states with a high population of retirees, those ready to retire and also cutting social security not only affects retirees but the disabled.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:40:59 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  And let's not forget the most important thing (3+ / 0-)

      about Fred Thompson to come out in that recent article:

      He called for "regime change" in Iran in a recent interview with the Weekly Standard, although he did not detail how that would happen.

      Biggest red flag of all, IMO.

      In 2006, Rove learned the equation that determines the absolute value of stupid. Namely, if you're negative and stupid, you're still just as stupid.

      by ShadowSD on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:41:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Clowns (11+ / 0-)

    That's what they looked like.  A bunch of fucking clowns doing their shtick.

    I support THEY WORK FOR US. :::::::: I BOYCOTT the NY Times and the Washington Post.

    by asskicking annie on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:23:46 AM PDT

  •  Great Rant DT (6+ / 0-)

    Even the ghost of Saint Ronnie can't revive the "staggeringly incompetent" party at this point.

    Just let's hope that the dems will play at the top of their game this year and next.

    It's still TESTER TIME!

    by Ed in Montana on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:23:57 AM PDT

    •  Maybe good as rant, but (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DKinUT
      internally inconsistent. Devilstower makes two claims that are in tension with one another. On the one hand, he says the Republicans are down and out because their philosophy is played out, and on the other, he argues that their problem was that they were "miserable at turning their points into practice." I agree with the former point and disagree with the latter. I think the latter point about "incompetence" is a dodge that the right will increasingly use to try to vindicate their philosophy: "It wasn't the philosophy, it was its incompetent implementation by the administration and Congress that has brought us down." I think that what we who are not on the right call "incompetence" is, on the contrary, the practical consequence of a very competently implemented, right-wing, anti-government philosophy. When we call it incompetence, we are judging their performance by our standards rather than theirs, and in the process we are handing their philosophy a pass. No thanks. They've nailed themselves to the cross of their philosophy. I say let them expire on it.

      "Only war makes it possible to mobilize all of today's technical resources while maintaining the property system." Walter Benjamin

      by psnyder on Sun May 06, 2007 at 06:39:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Importance of Political "Philosophy" for the GOP (5+ / 0-)

    From Rove's nightstand

    Politcal parties are inclined to compromise; philsosophies never. Political parties even reckon with opponents; philosophies proclaim their infallbility......the program of a philsophy is the formulation of a declaration of war...against the existing view of life in general...it also needs the primitive soldier, since otherwise inner discipline is unobtainable...in order to carry a philosophy to victory, we must transform it onto a fighting movement....The program of the moement is absolutely correct....even if it should not entirely correspond to reality

  •  The right talking points (6+ / 0-)

    definitely are eluding them and so they keep mouthing the same tired old talking points, sometimes using new words but always delivering the same core memes.  It was hysterically funny to see all of these candidates lined up on stage, each overly eager to confirm he is pro-life, against gays, against stem cell research, and all about faith and family values.  Rhetoric that has grown weary after years of overuse.  They have stripped the term "values" of any meaning, but still fling it out there in the hopes that it will stick, and it still does for "some people."

    Things are going to get a lot worse before they get worse. ~ Lily Tomlin

    by vigilant meerkat on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:24:19 AM PDT

    •  The worst thing that happened to the GOP... (10+ / 0-)

       ...was having complete, total control of the government for the first six years of the Chimp.

       They actually had to deliver. There were no Democrats to hide behind, no "Congress" to scapegoat. They had the reins.

       And they set about proving to Americans that their rhetoric was empty and hollow. This is family-values government in action? Mark Foley? Mary Cheney? This is standing up for life? Ridiculing Michael J. Fox and other disabled people? This is being pro-life? Invading Iraq under false pretenses?

       Americans now have an actual frame of reference against which to judge pug rhetoric, and its results. And they don't like what they've seen, at all.

       Boogeyman politics works only when you're not actually in a position to do anything about it.

      "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

      by Buzzer on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:32:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Did you mean to say (4+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Aeolus, DaleA, wishingwell, J Royce

        total lack of control? The Republican Congress basically crowned GWB as Emperor with No Clothes and abdicated its responsibility in return for getting every earmarked bridge to nowhere signed into law. The biggest rip-off in history. Talk about re-distributing income, the past 6 years will be looked back upon as The Great Bush Giveaway.

        The foolish and the dead alone never change their opinions. James Russell Lowell

        by Serendipity on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:49:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, it's been GREAT for the power elite (5+ / 0-)

           The Republican fiesta from 2001-2006 was a bonanza for the nation's power brokers. But it was a long-term disaster for the Republican Party.

           Which is why they're trying to rig the game with the US Attorneys. There's no way the pugs win a clean election at this point -- and they know it.

          "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

          by Buzzer on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:53:50 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  Every Republican that I know... (5+ / 0-)

      ...expresses disdain of and dissatisfaction with their pool of candidates. When pressed they can find nice things to say about a couple of them, but it's like pulling teeth. It's like the Democrats' pathetic pool in 1988.

      And has anyone's star fallen faster and more dramatically than John McCain's? He dutifully sucked up to Bush for eight years, expecting his beautiful reward at the end...and it's all getting away from him anyway. Sometimes there is justice in the world.

      If Edwards or Obama were Republicans, there would BE no primary. The coronation would have happened by now.

      But not to worry. The DLC-nexus is huddling as we speak figuring out how the Democrats can find a way to blow this one, too...
     

    "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

    by Buzzer on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:26:50 AM PDT

    •  McCain's acting like it's his turn... (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aeolus, Buzzer, pat208, moosely2006

      When I saw him on the debate the other night, all I could see was a sense of entitlement and frustration that he's had to wait this long...I could imagine him pounding his fist and saying "it's my turn, dammit!"

      The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

      by AnotherMassachusettsLiberal on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:34:16 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Edwards and Obama would not be allowed (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell, J Royce

      To be republicans

      If Edwards or Obama were Republicans, there would BE no primary. The coronation would have happened by now.

      Look at how fast the rep candidates are running away from Bush, Iraq, pretty much everything they stood for over the last decade. They're campaigns will all try to be the second coming of Ronald Reagan, with just enough fear about terror and immigrants and gays to try to just slip by. Their base has taken them over the cliff and it will take them years to climb back, and only after they disassociate themselves from the base. Thank you very much Karl Rove.  

      Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

      by corwin on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:41:51 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  We're lucky to have them (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell

          I was talking about credibility and substance, not policy; none of the Republican wannabes have either of those qualities, which would allow our stronger candidates, Edwards and Obama and perhaps Richardson and maybe even Dodd, to walk all over them if they were in the pug primary.

          The Republicans would KILL to have a Barack Obama. (And I'm not an Obama person, particularly.)

        "Le ciel est bleu, l'enfer est rouge."

        by Buzzer on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:51:14 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Sorry, I wasn't exactly clear (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          DaleA

          I started to say one thing and got sidetracked. The reps don't want anyone with integrity or substance either. They want a guy who is totally compliant to the wishes of the higher ups. Since this looks like the year of the senator, I think I could live with Obama, although I would still prefer Richardson, given his experience. I wouldn't mind seeing an Obama/Richardson ticket.

          One more thing, Obama is a very optimistic candidate. In that way (only that way), he reminds me of Reagan. We could sure use a little optimism right now.

          Do Pavlov's dogs chase Schroedinger's cat?

          by corwin on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:05:15 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  my experience too Buzzer (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tabbycat in tenn

      A Republican friend is very unhappy with the choices of the 10 candidates we saw on stage at the Debate. But when I asked how he felt about Thompson, his demeanor changed. He was jumping up and down for joy.

      I hope Thompson only looks good for a short while and that he fades with more scrutiny.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:55:30 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Amazing analysis (8+ / 0-)

    I was riveted. And great one liners, yet always in the flow of your argument. Two favorites:

    For four decades, the right has been peddling Rugged Individualist Soap.

    They'd crawl all over the guy who played the body on last week's CSI if he'd only mouth the phrase 'pro-life.'

    roman catholic by birth---- thoroughly confused by life

    by alasmoses on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:26:58 AM PDT

  •  But does Fred Thompson believe in (8+ / 0-)

    evolution?

    But seriously (I mean that question should be a joke right?) you hit it right on the head when you wrote that looking Presidential is the most important qualification for the Republicans.  They love empty suits like Reagan and Dubya because they are the perfect picture of Republican Presidentialism.  Dress up in some jeans and a plaid flannel shirt, jump on a horse and maybe make a joke about those eggheads and their edjumacation and voila its a President.

    One bad thing was a train got crashed in New Jersey. People won't be late for work though, because the governor lady said, "I'm sending in more trains!"

    by msstaley on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:28:00 AM PDT

  •  So who do they have left out there (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    moosely2006

    in Hollywood besides Adam Sandler????

    •  Imagine (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flatford39, epppie

      Adam Sandler for President!

      With this bunch, I'm not sure it's snark.

      "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act" George Orwell

      by wrights on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:35:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Lots (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      flatford39, mcfly, epppie

      Tom Selleck. Patricia Heaton. Ron Silver. Dixie Carter.

    •  I watched Fred Thompson (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aeolus, flatford39

      speak before a dinner in southern California on saturday night.. I was expecting to see all the words the desperate right wingers are spouting off.Instead I saw a man who looks like a grandpa, and speaks like Bush and Mccain, he was actually more boring to watch then McCain and the rest of the old men who are running on the Republican side this year.His positions on Iqaq mirror Bush and Mccain. He is a much more pleasent man , he has the manners things going for him rather then the Bush arrogance, but all the same he is a very boring person and I can not imange him captivting audiences with long boring policy speeches, he sounded like any old white boring Senator that drones on far too long.

      I hope Thompson gets in this race, and wins their nomination, Obama Edwards and even Hillary are much more attarctive canidates, with energy and ideas that the majority of this nation are in agreement with. Ending the Iraq war is going to be THEE issues in 08 and Republicans are going to lsoe on that issue again. Bush will not allow Congress to stop the war, he will press it all the way to SCOTUS if he must, it doesn't matter to Bush if it hurts Republicans, he will keep his promise that the next President will have to clean up this mess, and Republicans will lose big time because of it..Again. And that is a good thing!      

  •  I'm surprised they're not (3+ / 0-)

    trying to change the Constitution to make it so Arnold  Schwarzenegger can run.  He is everything they want in a president.

    Too bad they lost Congress.

    Whew!

    Investigate. Issue Subpoenas. Convict. Rinse. Repeat.

    by moosely2006 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:30:01 AM PDT

  •  Why they will lose in 2008 (5+ / 0-)

    TheRepublicans will lose in 2008 because they have lost the independent vote, and so, whether they nominate a winger or someone, like McCain who is touted as a maverick/independent (we all know that's not so), the moderates, according to every poll one can check, will not support the GOP.

    Stop bitching and start a revolution!

    by Randian on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:30:03 AM PDT

  •  Yet in Saint Ronnie of Soma's place (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Devilstower, J Royce, moosely2006

    The court jester known as Tweety could mock Bill Clinton during the debate without a peep from the corrupt corporate media.

    Even as they go down (cue the deck chair ovation and 'Nearer my God to Thee') they are still ever the swaggering bully

    Not content to mention the Saint of Soma 2 dozen times, Tweety 'Man love' Matthews couldn't help himself - he got a dig into Bill Clinton

    Despite the 70% approval for Clinton from last poll that I remember - and rising.

    Any predictions which way Bush's poll  will sink once the full scope of the monstrous work he has done dawns on the American Idol crew?


    ..those who would pronounce this God..
    ..are those who make this Hell - Roy Harper

    by Blue in VA on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:30:35 AM PDT

    •  Tweety (0+ / 0-)

      has a real loathing of Clinton that does not transfer to some other Democrats. He really has some grudge with Bill Clinton but keeps saying Hillary is the Democratic nominee.

      Granted, I am not a Clintonista and I have some Clinton issues but not this ongoing vile hatred I see from Tweety about Bill Clinton, in particular. He is fascinated with Hillary but hates Bill.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:02:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  and Tweety's latest crush (0+ / 0-)

        is Fred Thompson,..seems he lost some of his infatuation with Rudy and transferred it to Freddy.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:03:47 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Are we up to changing the beliefs (6+ / 0-)

    that two generations of Republicans have fostered:

    Big Government is Bad
    Taxes are Evil
    Wealth means Worthiness
    The Market is better than Government-always

    This takes more than "spin."  and I fear we think we have to play the Republican game.  We will be better at it, and then when we gain power......

    What will happen is we will make mistakes and if we have not changed the mentality of the public, it will be another cycle.  We have to sell the benefits of socialization where it is necessary, as in public health, but still respect private enterprise.

    We need to engage, not destroy our enemies.  They used slash and burn tactics on us, but we must both win and change the mentality of our country to prevail.
    --------
    Check out my diaryabout "before the war began" and share where you were four years ago as this war was about to begin

    •  Engage moderate Republicans (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, wishingwell, pat208

      But destroy the criminal conspiracy that hijacked the Republican party.

      This is the genius of the Obama campaign, reaching beyond the partisan divide and attempting to talk sense to the many, many moderate Republicans who have been disgusted by the incompetence and corruption of the Bush administration.

      I believe that Barack Obama is the transformational candidate that our country desperately needs.

      by Aeolus on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:40:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I agree... (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Serendipity, J Royce

      This era is reminiscent of the era of the "robber barons", but people have forgotten that part of history, it seems.  I saw a bumper sticker the other day:

      UNIONS - the people who brought you the weekend

      So many people have forgotten what it was once like for the common man in this country, and we're slipping back in that direction.  We need to win the hearts and minds of our countrymen - but they're all watching Idol...

      The significant problems we face today cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. - Albert Einstein

      by AnotherMassachusettsLiberal on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:45:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I see the warning of their fecklessness (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    epppie

    the lack of philosophy is not unique to the Republicans, we Democrats have a less than unified core philosophy.   I see the need for one which allows the factional differences to exist but has broad agreement on core "values" (I had a hard time using that word) that can be understood by the many.  A very difficult proposition to accomplish with the fractious Democratic party.

  •  The only good thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, epppie

    I heard about the debate was a quote from Richard Land (who I don't normally care to listen to) who said something like, If I had a problem with Clinton and his sex problems, there's no way I could ethically  support Newt or Rudy. I don't care for the guy but I have to give him props for that statement...may it come back to haunt him!

    Speech in this country is free, you hack!

    -5.88, -6.82

    by Debby on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:38:02 AM PDT

  •  Fight for your right to party (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk

    The Republican Party is the party of othrodox authoritarianism. McCain's campaign finance noises, anti-pork grumbling, and occasional mention of the national debt don't help him with the GOP establishment but that's not his great sin. You can vote any damn way you please on any issue and still be a good Republican. McCain's great sin is sticking a fork in the eye of the party establishment for 20 years and crowing about it in the press. While McCain was humping the press with a single-minded fury, Thompson was flirting with the press and humping the establishment.

    That's the difference.

  •  You go to NRO on-line (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jackieca, wishingwell, mcfly, GreyHawk

    and you look at what passes for analysis of Thompson and it boils down to about three things - a)he's 6'5", b) he's got a great baritone and c) he's got great speechwriters. Nothing about policy, nothing about accomplishment as a politician. Just that he looks like he could be a plausible president. By that standard, I guess we should be looking seriously at Martin Sheen. Or George Clooney.

    That is one million percent truth-n-fact, moonbat!

    by calipygian on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:40:17 AM PDT

  •  Not true (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jackieca, DianeL, GreyHawk

    One candidate on that stage clearly captured the attention of the public. You're just not hearing about it because the Republican party and the media just want him to go away.

  •  Fred Thompson Is An Ideal Candidate (6+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aeolus, jackieca, DaleA, mcfly, majcmb1, GreyHawk

    Thompson wants to cut Social Security benefits

    Personally, I would love to have a Republican candidate run on a strong Let's Cut Social Security Benefits campaign especially in Florida. Hell, I'd volunteer to drive him around to all the Senior Citizen Centers myself so he could campaign on cutting their benefits.

    Although I agree that the Republicans don't need new actors, they need new writers, they are extremely good at packaging septic waste and selling it as air freshener. In this American Idol environment, I'm not totally convinced that once the HANDLERS get hold of Thompson and develop his script, that they won't be able to pull it off at least to some degree.  

    Support Reid/Feingold

    by MO Blue on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:44:21 AM PDT

    •  and I will drive him around PA (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk, MO Blue

      to all the Senior Centers. PA is second to Florida in Senior Citizen population. Of course, PA has been a Blue State in terms of voting for Democrats for President since 1992. But still, pundits are always saying PA is a swing state and Rudy could win it. Balderdash, not if we tie every Republican to Bush. We need to bind each Republican to Bush with Duct Tape and Krazy Glue.

      Don't let the Republicans run from Bush or Squirm out of the Comparison.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:08:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I don't agree (0+ / 0-)

      Fred Thompson is a very boring speaker.. Yes, I find his souther way to be quiet and charming, but beyond a few moments of listening to him I am bored to tears.. Also If you are able to stay awak through his speech, you will hear the same thing Bush and MCCain are spouting. I am much more afraid of Rudy or Mitt, more Mitt becuase he really DOES look like he plays a President on Teevee.. But then I don't bother worrying because 1) our candiadates are so much more energetic and have great dieas and 2) Fred Thompson is their man, and that is great as far as I am concerned. He will need naps for sure, those bags under his eyes are very gaping, also he needs to be mindful of his lymphoma, stress has a way of making conditions much more pronounced. Didn't Jackie Kennedy pass away from lymphoma ? Anyway, nonthing personal to Fred, seems like a decent guy in the personal sense, I just think he is old looking and tired looking, I wish him all the best with his health issues.

  •  Lobbiest (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aeolus, Serendipity, dufffbeer, GreyHawk

    Instead of labeling Thompson an actor (invoking Reagan), the Democratic Party should focus on his two decades of lobbying and the result of those efforts.  It should begin now.

    •  Lobbyist turned third-rate actor (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      Is my preferred way of describing him.

      That was his chosen profession. Everything else was happenstance.

      I believe that Barack Obama is the transformational candidate that our country desperately needs.

      by Aeolus on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:53:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yes (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        GreyHawk

        Arnold and Ronnie at least had lead roles in some movies. Thompson is always a supporting actor and usually a supporting actor with a small role.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:09:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Listening to Thompson yesterday on NPR... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aeolus, wishingwell, demkat620, GreyHawk

    . . . where he was speaking with some French girl who says she knows me well to some group of Californiabots about what he "believes" in, I was struck by how gawdawfully unoriginal and pandering and unimaginative he was.  Just spouted a pile of oldie-moldy GOP droning-points about "tax-and-spend Democrats" and blah, blah, blah . . .  He sounded less imaginative than a kitchen chair and about as "wizened" as a tire iron.  Like Joe Lieberman, but without the winning personality.

    But, of course, Thompson's voice is deep.  And he's tall.  That's the ticket!

    Thing is, in his movie and teevee roles, he's this character acter who pretty much always plays a more-or-less decisive prick.  In real life he comes across pretty much the same, except for the decisive part.

    BenGoshi
    ___________________________________________________

    New pithy saying nominees being considered. . .

    by BenGoshi on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:49:46 AM PDT

  •  Ron Paul (5+ / 0-)
    according to screen captures on various right-wingish sites, which I won't link too, trounced the others in after-debate opinion polls. ABC, NBC, CNN & C-Span consistently showed Paul with about 3x as many votes as any one of the others.

    But ol' Paul ain't a neo-con. As a matter of fact 1) end the income tax, 2) end foreign military presence could become as popular with a whole lot of independents and liberals as well as conservatives of the non-neo stripe.

    Maybe it's time to start thinking about Hagel and others who might be 3rd Party candidates. I could see Paul or Hagel pulling a lot of independents into their column and out of the Dems.

    Little known Constitutional fact: the phrase "executive privilege," does not exist anywhere in the Constitution! Justice Scalia...?

    by Jim P on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:51:54 AM PDT

    •  Well, Ron Paul was the Republican I voted for... (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, wishingwell, GreyHawk

      ... in those polls. And I'm guessing a lot of other progressives did, too, just to f**k with the rest of them. And I sure as hell don't want Ron Paul as President.

      So let's not read too much into those polls. They partly reflect the Democratic/Independent majority's disgust with the rest of the pack.

      "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

      by pat208 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:55:21 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  What you say is true. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        pat208, GreyHawk
        But I did see a little piece last week about Hagel again considering a third-party candidacy. GIven the real paucity of meaningful candidates from the Repubs, and with the base splitting up and disgusted like a lot of it is, a 3rd party seems like something we might well have to deal with in '08, Ron Paul's poll results aside.

        Little known Constitutional fact: the phrase "executive privilege," does not exist anywhere in the Constitution! Justice Scalia...?

        by Jim P on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:03:57 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree with you. (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          GreyHawk

          Good points. The Republicans have got to be getting desperate at this point -- and this weekend's Newsweek results will only raise the heat.

          Something's gotta give, and I can't picture Bush, McCain, and the rest of their apologists suddenly changing their minds about the direction of their party, or finding a new soul.

          Long knives, bitter recriminations, Hail Mary passes, third party threats... pop some popcorn, folks.

          "One does not discover new lands without consenting to leave sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andre Gide

          by pat208 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:12:28 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

      •  true (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dufffbeer, pat208, GreyHawk

        and Ron Paul voted to impeach Clinton and he believes in absolutely no social programs at all and he would cut every program out there, not just defense.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:11:48 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  At least Ron Paul has principles (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          dufffbeer

          I don't agree with everything Ron Paul stands for, but at least he stands for something, unlike McCain.
           Remember that he voted against the Iraq War when almost no other member of his party did. Remember that he opposed Bush's assault on civil rights when almost no other member of the GOP had the courage to.

           He's nowhere close to a progressive, but he is a populist. And for that reason alone he deserves to be listened to.

          "PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

          by gjohnsit on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:51:19 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

    •  Ron Paul is the exception (0+ / 0-)

      Ron Paul actually believes in what he says. Ron Paul is willing to take an unpopular stand (like when he voted against the Iraq War). Ron Paul is a populist and a libertarian. Ron Paul wants to cut back on the attack on civil liberties.
        What impressed me most about Ron Paul was how he talked about the transfer of wealth in this country from Main Street to Wall Street. Only Edwards has the courage to talk about this stuff.

       Of course bashing Wall Street will engender you some very powerful enemies.
        It's too bad. There are still elements of conservatism that I respect. Ron Paul is one of the few left out there to represent it. But Big Money wants no part of his campaign.

      "PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

      by gjohnsit on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:47:11 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  wait, are you saying that (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DaleA, demkat620, GreyHawk, BobTrips

    they need to actually have a philosophy to win?

    Not true. All they have to do is demonize the democrats and all that tax raising stuff, talk about how evil gays are, shout from the rooftops that the second amendment guarantees them the right to have their guns, life is sacred before its born (but not after), and remind everyone that the poor people in this country are just lazy and are trying to steal from them.

    I say watch out -- Fred Thompson is all they need. He's attractive, charismatic, and if he sprouts the above mentioned "philosophy," he'll win their votes.

    The problem isn't the Republican party. The problem is a small minority of idiots in this country that will vote on one issue alone and never think about anything else. There is something seriously wrong with too many Americans that vote.

    And the ones that don't vote because they're too lazy or cynical. That's the problem. The Republicans don't need a philosophy, it doesn't really matter.

    •  the one issue folks (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      dufffbeer, GreyHawk

      you have a good point. They are the more infuriating people out there.

      For instance, the day after the Election in 04, my husband was depressed, I was in tears and cried off and on for days. He goes to work and a coworker said..

      Well we get to keep our guns

      My husband said..

      What about the War? What about those other issues we talk about all the time?

      The idiot said,

      I really could care less about those things. I just want to keep my guns

      My husband said

      Well a lot of good those guns will do when your kid is sent to Iraq or when you are hungry and have no money for food. So good luck with all that.

      as the dude was always complaining about outsourcing of jobs, the minimum wage being too low,and healthcare he cannot afford but in the end..the dude voted on GUNS ONLY>

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:18:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  also (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        dufffbeer, GreyHawk

        this guy has now discovered he was lied to and that the NRA is lying. NO way John Kerry was going to take away his guns.

        These Bush voters who now cry in their beer and try to wiggle out of their votes and their stances are even worse than idiots now..they are whiney idiots.

        In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

        by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:20:43 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Heard Some Scary-Good Thompson Reaganesque-isms (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      in the last few days. The man can definitely talk.

      You're right, they not only don't need philosophy and substantive issues, they have never run on them starting with Reagan. It's all persona and emotion.

      Thompson's strengths to my eye & ear are:

      • Highly effective delivery which purely as performance art, blows Obama out of the water;
      • Projection of strength and authoritarian persona which all the right loves and plenty of middle run to when stress is induced;
      • Media, still furious over losing Congress, love stars and totally understand how to present them; and
      • Government at all levels is still opposing Democratic candidates and voters in many ways, more than we could stop in time even with impeachment of the whole admin.

      Now, if the country is done with Republican_ism_ for now, that's not enough for him to win.

      If however they're more upset with Bush's execution than the core mideast/terror policy, a character like Thompson could run a competence-projecting reform platform and be a serious threat.

      I still remember the massive dismissal of actor Reagan's potential.

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:31:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  This reminds me of... (0+ / 0-)

    Fred Thompson fervently backed the Iraq war, railed against an expanding federal government, took stands that occasionally annoyed his party and rarely spoke about his views on social issues during his tenure as a senator from Tennessee or in his writings and speeches since leaving office.

    Virginia Tech's Cho. Trust Repugs to trot out a loser like Fred Thompson!

    •  not sure what you mean Suvro (0+ / 0-)

      the comparison of Cho and Thompson? I am not getting that. ????

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:22:27 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I meant to say... (0+ / 0-)

        that as a Senator, Fred Thompson was not engaged in discussing his ideas with other people, and his views are poorly known. He seems not to have discussed/debated the key moral and social issues that will confront the next presidency. Therefore, he has developed his ideas (whatever they are) in splendid isolation of his brain.

        For leadership positions, we need to consider people who at least have a track record of being engaged with other people of all political persuasion. I might hate Forked-Tongue Straight-BS'er McVain or Mr. Nine-Eleven Giuliani, but at least they have been out in the public and perhaps are even willing to be persuaded some from their positions.

  •  Forgive me but I'd like to make a Derby analogy (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, GreyHawk, BobTrips

    Yesterday was the 133rd running of the Derby.  I've been a horseplayer for more years than I'd like to count, so I'd like to point out something that many of you guys who may have watched it yesterday may not know.

    Every year, awards are given out for Horse of the Year in various categories.  One of those is "Two Year Old Colt or Gelding", which is given out in November, making the Derby about 5 1/2 months away.  This horse is immediately dubbed the 'Derby Favorite'.  Yesterday, that horse won the Derby.  It was the first time that has happened IN 29 YEARS!!!  It had gotten so bad that we, around the tracks, had taken to calling getting the Two year old championship a jinx.  And of course, any casual Derby watcher has absolutely no idea, until they read the Racing Form (if they even bother) what ANY of the Derby contenders did as two year olds.

    My point?  None of anything that's happening right now in either the Democratic or GOP races or debates means a damn thing relative to a year from November, or even to February 5th.  So we can have lots of fun with this, but the Derby Jinx of 'false favorites' looms bold over all of this.   You don't believe me?  Ask President Muskie, or President Lieberman (oh wow, I just grossed myself out, there) or President Gramm.

  •  When Bush is your God... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, GreyHawk

    how can you possibly find replacement for that?

    The entire GOP is worshiping King George, the Decider-in-Chief of the Free World™.

    King George knows best, and perhaps we should just have him continue his reign.

    "it's a success that hasn't occurred yet" —The entirely nonpartisan Frances Fragos Townsend on capturing Osama bin Laden.

    by hour on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:56:12 AM PDT

    •  If Bush were really God (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      the population of Atheists would increase dramatically to over 60 pct here and probably 99 pct worldwide..LOL

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:26:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  A few points (4+ / 0-)

    First of all, Ronald Reagan wasn't just a third rate actor. He was a movie star, although a minor one.

    The difference is that an actor you watch because of the way he portrays a character.  A star is somebody you watch because he's fun to watch.  It's a crucial distinction because while acting ability is helpful to any politician, star quality is a huge asset to a presidential candidate or president.

    The other thing to realize is that Republicans are just experiencing the kind of identity crisis that the Democrats struggled with a decade ago.  There was a lot of talk about a "big tent", but a lack of clarity about what people under that tent had in common.  And when you govern, that becomes a bone of contention.

    The wild card are "conservative" (recognizing the inadequancy of this term) southerners, who don't really fit in neatly with the rest of either party.  People forget that the evangelical christian who opposed Clarence Darrow in the scopes trial was William Jennings Bryan, a three time Democratic presidential nominee.   You can almost think of them as a chemical element that can bond with either party, but once bonded the character of the each constituent is altered.

    The Republican "Southern Strategy" invited the South into a newly renovated Republican "big tent", and thus brought upon themselves the problem of the old Democratic party: how to hde the fact that people in the tent have so little in common.

    The eastern establishment Republicans, represented by Giuliani or George H Bush, are not that far from moderate Democrats , except for their prioritizing the interests of big businesses and its wealthy leaders over the interests of workers.  Western Republicans, represented by the McCain of yore, have more of a libertarian, individualistic outlook.   However, the coalition member that holds the keys to power is the South, and candidates have to recast themselves as having Southern compatible viewpoints.

    George W Bush, while bred an eastern Republican and living amongst western Republicans most of his life, can be counted as the first Southern president the Republicans have ever had.   The last president the Democrats had to represent that viewpoint was Jimmy Carter, a much underrated president in my opinion.  However, the rest of the party and the rest of the country does not bear much love for southern evangelicals as a group, and problems in a southern presidency have a special power to expose the fault lines in the party.

    •  Where do you think Bill Clinton was born/raised? (4+ / 0-)

      He is southern born and bred, was governor of a southern state, belonged to the Southern Baptist Church. Just because he wasn't radical doesn't mean he wasn't southern. I know one reason Clinton looks like the best president since FDR is because his administration was surrouded by shrubs, but he was far superior to Reagan, Ford, and Nixon, too.

      I think you make some great points and your analogy of southern "conservatives" to chemical elements is nothing short of brilliant.

      But there is a lot more to the south than conservatives, and it doesn't include Texas. Don't try to hang a Connecticut-born Texan wannabe on us, we have enough problems already.

      "The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing." -Edmund Burke

      by carolita on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:08:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  some interesting points grumpy (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      GreyHawk

      The Republican "Southern Strategy" invited the South into a newly renovated Republican "big tent", and thus brought upon themselves the problem of the old Democratic party: how to hde the fact that people in the tent have so little in common.

      All they have in common is that they hate liberals. But then there is the distinction between the right wingers who are more of the war mongering swaggering types and the religious right who sometimes wavers on war and does not like to discuss that. They will back it but I notice, if mentioned, will turn the subject back to their so called values.

      George W Bush, while bred an eastern Republican and living amongst western Republicans most of his life, can be counted as the first Southern president the Republicans have ever had

      That was due to Karl Rove makeover and Rovian tactics. He made this rich  spoiled, bully , schooled in the Northeast and spent a great deal of his life inside the beltway,  into some religious Texas swaggering cowboy.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:32:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  SHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, demkat620, GreyHawk

    Let's not give them any advice on winning.  OK?

    Wes Clark -- The President we were promised as kids.

    by Jimdotz on Sun May 06, 2007 at 07:59:35 AM PDT

  •  They do need new writers. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk

    But do their followers bother to read?

  •  Puff the Magic Neo-Con? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk

    Appropos since we have a new Vietnam "War" and really need a "Conservative" to resign for "the cause."

    Someone remind me what the party of Child-molesters and hypocrites is conserving please..

    I'm not a church-goin kinda fella and skipped the pulpit thingie this today. Heard my snark on NPR this morning though..

    Is it against "Jesus" to want to go visit the dog that I singlehandedly rescued from "canine-o-nasia" and give "Tillie" a biscuit?

    That "friend of mine" has no clue. They're all my dogs. She gets to feed 'em and lovingly pick up the poopsies.

    My dog.

    Woof.

    Shar-Pei this time..

    One of these days the "masters and mistresses" will get wise.

    I do love my doggies.

    Republicans: Proudly placing yellow smiley-face stickers on the face of doom since 1969 -8.88 -5.08

    by SecondComing on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:11:49 AM PDT

  •  One small point of contention re: the conclusion: (4+ / 0-)

    The Republicans don't need more actors -- they need new writers.

    Even that would be an ongoing disaster.  The Republicans don't need a neocon, an actor, a writer, an "MBA President" or a master of marketing.

    They need a genuine article. A true leader, one with vision and a capacity to unite as well as cause the masses to swoon.

    Unfortunately, there are only two options for such a leader, and neither option would manifest an actual "neocon" -- magic or otherwise. If a true leader is found, the leader would have to be one or the other of the following two incarnations (IMO):

    1. A moderate-to-liberal Republican, who would actually squeeze fraud out of the government and batten down the financial hatches. This type of leader would likely

      • End the Iraq fiasco and the nightmare of Middle East control,
      • Recognize and implement a strong alternative energy solution in order to strengthen and prepare America for oil shortages and strategically prepare us for any lost control of oil reserves in the world due to the neo-misadventure,
      • Cut down on over-ambitious social programs, but reinstate and strengthen base, core functionality to the social net that must exist in keeping with a nation of the people, by the people and for the people,
      • Retrofit the military, and take the failed business models out of most government areas -- it doesn't work, not in a capitalism-fueled economy where responsible profits aren't desired over runaway graft.

      They aren't going to find someone like that, because the cheeseheads1 in control of the Republican Party and Republican Noise Machine are too entrenched in the special interests -- literally, their roots are saturated in blood and oil and embedded in corporate mire.

      The whole party needs an enema, as well as major surgery to divorce the Radical Religious elements from their major veins and arteries so that their once-severed connection to reality could be reattached.

      The second option is, unfortunately, both more frightening and -- due to the conditions these morons have set up -- far more likely.

    2. The second type of "leader" that the Republicans may find would have to be a charismatic dictator-psychopath, like Hitler, in order to control the masses.

      We don't need another one of those -- we've had six years of the Mickey-Mouse version, and have watched as Disney itself doffed the mouse ears to the pseudo-swastika of the BushCo Crusades cross.


    No, I don't think they need a new writer -- they need a genuine article: a true Republican, one who could restore the party to a semblance of reality and actually uphold the vision of what the party once was. Such a leader would be at odds with almost everything the current party leadership stands for and strives for.

    Let's hope they don't create the type of vacuum that could produce the second type of leader. We haven't even started cleaning up after the opening comedy act that such a leader would need.

    ____________
    1 No offense meant to Wisconsin or the residents thereof -- this use of the term "cheesehead" is fully intended as derogatory, and in no way intended to be taken as a tie-in to our nation's cheesiest member state.

    Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
      Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
    Tempest even in reason's seat.

    by GreyHawk on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:14:46 AM PDT

    •  they need Eisenhower (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Ray Radlein, GreyHawk, trashablanca

      but in this day and age, I doubt Ike would be a Republican. Hell his son changed his registration to Democrat and endorsed John Kerry.

      Eisenhower Republicans are being shunned out of the party. Big Tent Republicans is a bunch of Bull..if only more GOPers would see that who are hanging on and hoping the party moderates again. I doubt it will happen for decades.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:36:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  I fear you're correct. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        wishingwell, trashablanca

        Newt Gingrich, who essentially provided Republicans with a roadmap of how to make rhetoric "work smart" for them and thus led to the rise of the facade that protected the growth of rampant corruption, is at it again now, too, with his "Contract with the Environment" book.

        Check out the diary "Newt Goes Green" -- it's something that needs to be immediately discredited and tied to the current slide of screwups as part of the cause, promising another "Contract with America" line of pretentious bullshit without actually accomplishing anything but self-empowerment of the most corrupt political party of the last two centuries.

        Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
          Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
        Tempest even in reason's seat.

        by GreyHawk on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:44:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  Link: (0+ / 0-)

        Never, never brave me, nor my fury tempt:
          Downy wings, but wroth they beat;
        Tempest even in reason's seat.

        by GreyHawk on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:47:35 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  By Republican standards, (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sxp151, demkat620

    Fred adds diversity.

    He looks like a basset hound. None of the other candidates can claim this. Manic chihuahua, maybe. Ferret, definitely. Department store mannequin. But basset hound? Fred's the only one.

    (Hey, I'm trying to find something here!)

    •  hope (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      JoeW

      we do not go from having a Chimp for President to having a Basset Hound for President. As it is bad enough that apes everywhere are pissed off, but we do not need dogs angry and pissed off too.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:38:12 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  My reply (0+ / 0-)

    Hello brothers and sisters on the left. I'm a conservative, but I come here for inspiration sometimes. Anyways, I wrote a reply to this post.

    Asymmetric

    •  And what a clever guy you are. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      The only question is where your alleged conservative principles are manifested in the Bush administration.
      Criminals stole your party, dude, after duping a bunch of evangelicals that they were the party of values.

      I believe that Barack Obama is the transformational candidate that our country desperately needs.

      by Aeolus on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:27:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  We Generally Do Discussion Here nt (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

      by Gooserock on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:18:42 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  seriously? (0+ / 0-)

      you come here for inspiration? From your reply, it seems to come here to gather diaries and post rebuttals on your website.

      Explain what you mean by inspiration..inspiration to gather information to use against Democrats?

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:42:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Wow...not just conservative, but a 28 percenter (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Aeolus, jackieca, majcmb1

      The thrust of your response (which I'll summarize since you didn't do us the courtesy of posting it here) is that Devilstower is wrong to claim that the GOP is philosophically bereft thanks to the failures of the current administration.  You point out that your core values (free enterprise, toughness on crime, low taxes, deregulation, et al) have not changed.  

      For true conservatives this may be so.  The problem is that the GOP leadership has proven these to be mere talking points.  The current administration has thrown conservatives like yourself under the bus while they raped the US Treasury to feed the greed of their cronies.  This isn't a small or forgivable aspect of the Bush administration...corruption on this scale is completely unprecedented and we ignore it at our peril as a country.  Bush took a dump on your "philosophy." However it smelt before it now smells like you-know-what.  

      The problem with the GOP is that the people in charge of it are corrupt, period.  We'd all be super pumped here on the left if you'd fix your party and make all those values you talk about central to its purpose, but don't come over here pretending the last six years didn't just happen.  Don't act like anyone with a serious mind should trust John "torture's OK after all" McCain or Rudy the fearmonger or Mitt the flip-flop-flipper.

      Furthermore...Americans actually aren't all that happy with values like free trade and deregulation any more.  We like our jobs and clean air, thank you very much.  Polls show this to be rapidly turning against you.  

      The GOP consists primarily of two minorities held loosely together: religious conservatives and wealthy interests.  The rest of the country is catching on to this fact.  Most Americans don't want to live in a banana republic...nor do they want to live in a theocracy.  So I guess you're right that you don't need new writers.  I'd say you need a new base...but it's going to take a new philosphy to find one.

      http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewsta

      by BeerNotWar on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:50:01 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Please Troll Rate (0+ / 0-)

      Note the link Asymmetric helpfully provides at the bottom of his article: "Trolling the Left"

      Please reward him with the troll rating he is obviously looking for.

      http://sourceforge.net/projects/brewsta

      by BeerNotWar on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:47:24 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The GOP is totally F'd up and has no direction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jackieca, GreyHawk

    I'm dismayed just how f'd up the GOP is.   They are like a bunch of brainless robots with their central control destroyed.

    This is NOT good for America.  We need more than one strong party pushing for ever better policies.  

  •  Help the Republican's Feel the Gloom (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, GreyHawk

    I think the Republicans DESERVE to feel gloomy, after years of ignoring the threat of al-Qaeda, lying to America, refusing to support our troops and veterans, and becoming more corrupt than any bunch of politicians since the Harding Administration.

    So I am encouraging that gloominess on their part with THIS ACT BLUE SITE. Please help me make the Republicans feel blue in 2008 (two donors so far!).

  •  File under Irony Last Best Chance (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    GreyHawk

    was the title of the movie where FDT played president.

    http://www.imdb.com/...

    Fred Dalton Thompson ... President Charles Ross

    Line of Fire With Clint Eastwood he played
    http://www.imdb.com/...

    Fred Dalton Thompson ... White House Chief of Staff Harry Sargent

    Be carefull what you shoot at, most things in here don't react well to bullets-Sean Connery .... Captain Marko Ramius -Hunt For Red October

    by JML9999 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:32:05 AM PDT

  •  I disagree, (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aeolus, GreyHawk, DKinUT

    What the right needs is (1) a heart; (2) compassion for their fellow human beings; (3) a sense of fairness; (4) an acknowledgement that just sometimes government can and does make excellent choices for the common good; and (5) most importantly, the capacity to admit sometimes they have been dead wrong.  No political wing, left or right, needs new writers, what they need is common human values for the common good.

  •  Best Summary of the Republican Wreckage (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, GreyHawk

    This next to Arianna's summary of the debate were excellent.  Thanks !!

  •  Bush provided talking points in '04. (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, demkat620, GreyHawk

    It was easy for other GOP candidates. Just say what Bush says. Now Bush is poison to them. They have no Rovian doublespeak to cling to. Now they just try to evoke (or perhaps clobber everyone over the head with) Reagan's name. Reagan is dead. So are the chances of any of this bunch ever being the president.

    "Make no mistake about it, I understand how tough it is, sir. I talk to families who die." George W. Bush 12/7/06

    by kitebro on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:36:06 AM PDT

    •  and Democrats should always (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      kitebro, GreyHawk

      tie Bush around their necks like a heavy albatross. Do not let them wiggle away from Bush. Constantly and Consistently link them with rope and duct tape to Bush.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:44:26 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sounds like Rudy (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, GreyHawk

    I believe this is Giuliani’s point – the GOP needs to rebuild on traditional conservative policies.  He said this at some GOP meeting in DC not too long ago.  Sorry, I don’t have a reference.

    But will the GOP base stand for this?  I doubt it.  For them extremism is a virtue.

  •  This is just the beginning (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Devilstower, wishingwell, GreyHawk

    I guarantee you that Petreaus report in September will give new fuel to both sides of the Iraq argument(Bush will find something positive, while everyone else will see the writing on the wall).  Then when members of congress(reps, that is) start feeling the need to peel away from Bush on Iraq watch for the Bush Victory tour of republican strongholds to commence.  He'll go over their heads again and appeal directly to the base.  He'll do everything he can to bind them to him throughout '08.

    Then the real fun starts.  Picture this:

    GOP '08 convention, everything's okay then Bush and Cheney speak and the adoring chants of Four More Years go up.  It will be music to the 28% but like nails on a chalkboard to the rest of the country.  Won't matter at all after that what the actual nominee says, that will be the image that gets stuck in peoples craws.  This is what the pundits are missing, the base doesn't want another Reagan, they want more Bush.

    Buy popcorn futures, it's gonna be a bull market.

    •  true Demkat (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      demkat620

      The true base of that 28 pct want MORE Bush, the rest of the Republicans want Reagan..so the party is split.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:49:52 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Ten is not enough" (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    demkat620, GreyHawk

    Great headline-- forget Fred Thompson the repubs need Dick Van Patten

  •  So it's come to this. (4+ / 0-)

    Ten creepy old men, all applying to be America's babysitter.

    All ten say that we should trust them to mind our children.  When asked about their philosophy of parenting, all ten say that they think children should be starved to the point where they can easily be drowned in the bathtub.

    And the Republicans are hesitant to hire any of them to babysit their children--because they aren't convinced that any of them really mean it.

    WC Fields, at least, would be pleased. And H.L. Mencken would nod knowingly.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame about your kneecaps.

    by AdmiralNaismith on Sun May 06, 2007 at 08:55:52 AM PDT

  •  Pls Showcase more of these whack jobs (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    It can only help the Democrats.  Three of these ten don't believe in evolution, and while they raised their hand Mitt Romney was wearing magical underwear.  That is 4 whack jobs out of ten.  And McCain is old and a huge supporter of this DISCREDITED IRAQ WAR.

    Why does the GOP even bother to run candidates for president?  They don't have any chance.  NO CHANCE

    80 % of success is just showing up - Woody Allen

    by Churchill on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:04:43 AM PDT

  •  Off stagers coming on stage (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Devilstower, GreyHawk

    Condi won't run.  She'd have to be as deluded as Katie Harris, a.k.a. Loony McBoobjob to try it.

    Newt has more baggage than a Samsonite convention.

    Hagel could possibly get the nomination--anti-war, and easily conservative enough for the wingnut base.  He'd have to pull off quite the fund raising moves, which isn't nearly as hard now as it was two or three cycles ago, thanks to the Intertubes.

    Thompson?  That bloodhound just won't hunt.  Too far out in right field on Iran, even for the nutters.

    The outsider who scares the crap out of me is Bloomberg.  He could self-finance an Independent run, and he's far enough left that he could split the Dems.  Not as divisive as Clinton, not as easily portrayed (albeit incorrectly) as a class warrior, like Edwards, and more experienced than Obama.  Any of our top three running against any of the top three Rethugs plus Bloomberg would give a new depth of meaning to the phrase, "it's a whole new ball game."

    •  Gizmo (0+ / 0-)

      Great Gizmo quotable quote.

      Newt has more baggage than a Samsonite convention.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA...I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:51:50 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tag Correction (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Aeolus, GreyHawk

    "2008 Presidential Election" corrected

    Please do NOT use "2008 presidential election" as a tag.  Standard election tags are:

    1. "2008 elections"
    1. Then the office as a separate tag: "President" or "House" or "Senate" or "Governor"
    1. Then during primary season add: "primaries"
    1. When discussing debates add: The name of the state the debate is in and the tag, "debates"

    Many Kossacks bookmark tag links so it is easy to find new diaries on favorite or hot issues.  Some even add them to their blog rolls to make them easy to find regardless of what computer they are using.  That is an excellent reason to learn to use standard tags in your diaries.

    Thanks!

    ==============
    Tag guidelines
    Tips on Creating Good Diary Tags
    Try to use tags from this List of the most used standard tags.
    Find good tags (those used over 30 times) and their diaries by using this Great Tag Search Tool
    TUs, please consider giving an hour a week helping with these Tag Clean Up Jobs

  •  And they say liberals are obsessed with Hollywood (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    MontanaMaven, wishingwell, GreyHawk

    I dare any damn republic party person to say that again, when they're the ones electing all the two bit/out-of-work actors as politicians.

    "Overcome anger by love, evil by good, the greedy by generosity, and the liar by truth." - Buddha

    by madame defarge on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:18:38 AM PDT

  •  the old adage that 'anyone' can grow up to be (4+ / 0-)

    President of the United States was clearly demonstrated in this pathetic line-up of Republican wannabees. Perhaps if we focused as a nation on competence as opposed to appearance - for example actor Fred Thompson being touted as a viable candidate because he played one once on television is about as puerile as it can possibbly get.

    Meanwhile around the world, the week's stories focus on women! In Iran the foreign minister refused to attend a dinner in Tehran because he was 1) offended by the red dress worn by an Russian female violinist, his Islamic sensibilities were contravened 2) did not want to talk to a woman, despite the fact that she is the American Secretary of State.

    In Turkey the upoming elections are being threatened basically because the young men of Turkey, a secular Islamic state, do not wish to have a first lady in their version of the White House wearing a headscarf.

    In France it appears a done deal that a rightwing candidate adhering to a British model of government will beat the woman running as the usual dyed in the wool socialist candidate  promising a 35 hour work week and six week paid vacations to add to the hefty pension plans enjoyed to date by the French, who always play both ends against each other on the world stage.

    In America Senator Clinton appears to have partially re-deemed her reputation with the anti-war crowd by threatening to de-authorise a war she, and the majority of her colleague and fellow citizens clamored for five years ago.

    There is only one way forward now, get out of Iraq and let the chips fall where they may.  If it gets worse, so be it.  Let them all fight it out while we stay home and fight each other.

    Perhaps we should all remove our rose-colored and dark glasses and see the world as it really is. How about a little competence and reality instead of Hollywood on the Potomac and scripts that all come out right in the end.  This is one complicated world out there and until women take their 'equal' place in the scheme of things balance can never be restored.

    •  true soccer grandmom (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      soccergrandmom

      Bush shows any spoiled brat bully who is inarticulate with enough connections to money and corporations and who can lie over and over again...can be President.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:55:38 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  DT, sometimes your writing takes my breath (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, GreyHawk

    Today is one of those days.  This is superb.

    'how many deaths will it take till he knows That too many people have died?' Bob Dylan

    by St Louis Woman on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:38:19 AM PDT

  •  No one (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, majcmb1, GreyHawk

    This election cycle is a dry well for the GOP. They've cobbled together a batch of has-beens and also-rans, not one of whom could unite the Party and certainly not the nation.

    Maybe more than ever, the non-theocratic members of the GOP are feeling strangled by the social conservatives. There's still the sense within the ranks that only someone fully in their court (Brownback) could get the nomination, but they also know he couldn't even pull Alan Keyes numbers in a general election.

    I think the Great Schism, the final severance of social and economic conservatives, may well be upon us. And if that happens, one group or the other may appropriate the name, but the Republican party of our lifetime will be as dead as the Whigs.

    One day, I hope, I will cast a vote for Keith Olbermann.

    by Jaxpagan on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:38:26 AM PDT

    •  Jax, good points (0+ / 0-)

      Maybe more than ever, the non-theocratic members of the GOP are feeling strangled by the social conservatives.

      Yes, ask anyone you know who is a Republican but not a religious righty and more and more, they are disgusted with that faction of the party.

      Ask anyone who is a religious and social conservative and they are frustrated ..some of them that is...about the War being a bigger focus than the abortion and gay marriage issue.

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:57:54 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The Neo Con strategy depends (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, GreyHawk

    precisely on "actors"--duplicity.  They have to pretend and harken back to pioneer individualism, when in reality the core of neocon philosophy is corporate and pseudo-elitist.

  •  Your new talking-points scare me (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, GreyHawk, soccergrandmom

    I am but a simple caveman, recently thawed-out by global warming from the glacier where I was trapped 14,000 years ago.  I find this age too fast, too dangerous, and too complex.  When you claim that home-grown terrorists threaten us, it makes me frightened.  That thousands may die because we have not pre-detained those bad men, I cringe in fear.  Thinking that there are many potential terrorists running around free even today makes my head hurt - what can we do?  

    I like it when you suggest that the appropriate measures should be taken to detain potental evil-doers, even before they do their evil.  And thank you for not hurting my brain further with obscure and outmoded Latin phrases like "habeas corpus".  I am feeling much safer in my cave now, really.

    the particular is higher than the universal -SK

    by Thomas Twinnings on Sun May 06, 2007 at 09:44:35 AM PDT

    •  got room in there for one more? (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      MontanaMaven, wishingwell

      I can bring my own club and since I am a fully paid up member of NOW have permisssion to beat you over the head too.

      If they deploy all the troops now in Iraq to the Mexican border, which will soon be flooded by young men wearing tablecloths on their heads,  we'll be perfectly safe for another 14,000 years.

  •  GOP '08: The Search for Reagan's Ghost (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell

    Arriving just in time for  last week's Republican presidential debate at the Reagan Library are the first sneak peeks of the Gipper's soon to be released diary. While Rudy Giuliani, John McCain, Mitt Romney and the rest vie to claim the mantle of "Reagan Conservative," you can contemplate Ronnie's insightful private admissions such as "getting shot hurts" and "I agreed to sell TOWs to Iran."

    But you don't have to wait for "The Reagan Diaries" to size up the man. For some reflections on Reagan from the man himself and the friends who knew him best, see:
    "GOP Debate Reflections on Reagan."

    •  A Seance is coming (0+ / 0-)

      anyday now to summom Ronnie's ghost.

      The Republicans best chance is if they run Reagan's ghost. Reagan alive could not seek another term as President but is there anything in the Constitution about how many terms a Ghostly Apparition can serve?  :)

      In this world of sin and sorrow there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican.- H. L. Mencken

      by wishingwell on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:00:34 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "Looks Presidential" is a meme we need to get rid (0+ / 0-)

    of.  A Republican said to a friend of mine that Fred Thompson looked Presidential.  This is just antecdotal information, but I wonder if the main stream media with it's American Idol mentality is putting this meme out deliberately?

    How annoying that we Democrats never can convince our first rate actors to run like Warren Beatt or Tom Hanks.   They get close and then they back away.  Maybe it's the combination of talent and smarts that makes them inevitably run away from Washington cuz it's booooring.

    "Whatever is calculated to advance the condition of the honest, struggling laboring man, I am for that thing." Abraham Lincoln

    by MontanaMaven on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:01:22 AM PDT

  •  The problem with Republicans is that they (0+ / 0-)

    want to "be" not "do."  They don't only want to be right instead of doing right, they're basically incapable of autonomous action. Actyion implies the possibility of making a mistake, of being "wrong."  God forbid.
    That's why they want to be directed.  Being directed and following orders means never having to be wrong.

    Democrats have a really hard time differentiating between being and doing because they think that one is what one does.  Not so Republicans.  They know what the meaning of "is" is, and it doesn't have anything to do with doing.

    Who knew Bill Clinton was so perceptive?

  •  "To borrow a phrase from Rush"? (0+ / 0-)

    To borrow a phrase from Rush -- the Republicans are looking for a Magic Neocon.

    Actually, the phrase "Magice Negro" comes from David Ehrenstein of the L.A. Times in this article.  The first person to use the phrase might have been Spike Lee.  Limbaugh is simply parodying their racist idea.

  •  Say what you will about Arnie (0+ / 0-)

    He was not a third rate actor

  •  Ten is not enough ... (0+ / 0-)

    ... where eleven (Fred Thompson included) is possible.

    Chat:

    http://osi-speaks.blogspot.com/...

  •  My hope is that this is the end of Reaganism (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Devilstower, jackieca, majcmb1

    The smart GOPers will form a new party modeled after Eisenhower, Goldwater and Nixon.  Reagan was a radical.   These folks like McCloskey, the daughters of Goldwater and Eisenhower should bring the party  back to the Kevin Phillips variety.

    And this is my fervent hope.  Leave the Democratic Party to the people.  Leave the Democratic Party to those who believe in FDR type economics and smart regulation and a bit of protectionism.  I dearly want all our DLC and so called "moderate" Democrats who love Wall Street More than Main Street to leave our party alone and go take the Old Republican Party back. I'm tired of fighting here in the West with decent civic minded Republicans who have tried to squeeze into donkey suits.  It just doesn't fit.

    "Whatever is calculated to advance the condition of the honest, struggling laboring man, I am for that thing." Abraham Lincoln

    by MontanaMaven on Sun May 06, 2007 at 10:30:15 AM PDT

  •  What they need (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    majcmb1

    is somebody who can fool disillusioned, bankrupt, uninsured, long-term unemployed ex-Republicans that they should do it all over again.

    Tall order indeed.

    A guy told me, "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0," but he didn't say what it meant.

    by jimbo92107 on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:01:00 AM PDT

  •  Of course there is plan B (0+ / 0-)

    Which is really disguised as plan A. Run that Goddamn clock out becuase they can read the polls. They know a D will be elected. He/she will end it and then they can spend the next 30 years blaming the "liberals" for our "defeat" in Iraq.

    I got one of those chain letters that they pass around where some douchebag, purportedly with academic credentials,  engages in the douchebaggery of elevating the Blunder in Iraq into the central Battlefield of WW111 against the Islamo-Facists - or  the new word is the Islamo-Jihadists - apparently to separate the Islamics Hard Right from the Republicans becuase how easy it would be to insert Reublico-Facists in there meaning the difference between the two is our wackos won't wear suicide vests- hell they won't even go to war.  

    Until that support number drops below 15%, we are in for more of the same.

    Support the Troops, Impeach Bush
    Oversize Rants Available Overnight at
    The Image Factory

    by Dburn on Sun May 06, 2007 at 11:47:44 AM PDT

  •  Ron Paul is an exception (0+ / 0-)

    While all the rest of the GOP candidates are terrible, at least Ron Paul has stuck to his principles.
      Granted, he doesn't have a chance. Especially after he mentioned how the current system is transferring wealth from the poor to Wall Street. That's a populist message that will engender him some very powerful enemies.

     I don't agree with everything that Ron Paul stands for, but I respect that he sticks to his beliefs. He voted against the Iraq War when almost no other Republican did.
      To be perfectly honest, if it came down to Ron Paul vs. Hillary, I think I would have to vote for Paul. And I've never voted for a Republican before in my life.

    "PC Load Letter"? What the fuck does that mean?

    by gjohnsit on Sun May 06, 2007 at 12:41:39 PM PDT

    •  Ron Paul's statement on Iraq (0+ / 0-)

      I thought I'd share a statement on Iraq by Dr. Paul that I'd taken notice of in 2005. The way he sees it, the concept of national sovereignty is now seen as an issue that concerns only "the fringe" in our society. Why should that be?

      Knowing where he stands - and listening to all other candidates in Thursday's debate - I realized  how strange his message may sound to most Americans - yet I realize that he has some very good points.

      A return to isolationism may not be a sane possibility in an age where the world has become smaller, flatter, et al. Where do we draw the line when it comes to sovereignty as it applies to war, globalization, and nation building? The Republican candidates ignored Dr. Paul's concerns because they knew he'd only be seen as unelectable. But that is just arrogance - we deserve a discussion about the ways that unbridled corporate greed and the lack of alternative energy progress (in favor of Big Oil) has caused great inequity and unjust, unnecessary war...and how our sovereignty has been ignored over the entire ugly process. We're all less of a nation - less of a People today because of this lack of leadership.

  •  Ron Paul (0+ / 0-)
    Owned the debate. I'd vote for him.
  •  The *Republicans* are looking for a magic neocon? (0+ / 0-)

    Nope.  Republican voters are just trying to find the best in the pack.  It's Big Money that's trying to manufacture magic, and you can see their efforts in the slanted media coverage.

    An old whore like McCain is painted as a "maverick," Rudy is still portrayed as the hero of 9/11, and chameleon Romney is the "real" conservative.  They're being branded, slowly but surely, and the hate machine is already slandering the leading Dems (while painting the other Dems as kooks).

    Voters are the victims.  Big Money is the would-be magician here.

  •  Who won the debate: the statistical breakdown (0+ / 0-)

    I went through the transcript question by question and created a stat sheet for the different candidates. Categories include Unprompted Reagan References, % of Questions Dodged, Unsubstantiated Platitudes, and Attacks on another candidate. You can check it out here:

    http://severe-eclexia.blogspot.com/...

  •  They HAVE a philosophy (0+ / 0-)

    They're just afraid to say it out loud.  

    It's basically just a combination of selfishness and opposition to change.  Isn't that what the term "conservative" means anyway?

    They should admit it.  It's got to be better than hiding it by claiming incompetence, every single time something goes according to plan.

    I hated Bush before it was popular.

    by jrcjr on Mon May 07, 2007 at 06:50:33 AM PDT

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