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I know it's late but hopefully this'll stay up into the morning so many more people will see it.

If this is what it purports to be, this is gonna be BIG, folks!!

"Dan Rather Reports" on HD Net this coming Tuesday, will air an hour-long special highlighting conclusive new evidence of nationwide election-machine failures due to touch-screen voting machines manufactured by ES&S Systems.

The special program will also expose illegal Filipino sweatshops where the faulty ES&S iVotronic Direct Recording Electronic (DRE) touch-screen voting machines are produced. Rather will report workers at the sweatshops receive less than $2.50 per day for their day’s work, and that quality control for the machines consists of ‘shaking the machine to check for loose screws’.

In a press release Sunday, HD Net announced the content of this Tuesday’s "Dan Rather Reports". The investigative report is dedicated to the failures of touch-screen voting and the companies that produce them.
Guest Blogged at BradBlog by John Gideon, @ VotersUnite.Org

The text of the press release:

What: This Tuesday, DAN RATHER REPORTS presents conclusive evidence of the failure of touch screen voting machines across the country. The episode, "The Trouble with Touch Screens", is an entire hour devoted to new information on this story. From scientists involved in testing the equipment, to manufacturers in third world countries who shipped these defective voting machines to the United States DAN RATHER REPORTS will present new information showing that these defective machines may have altered the outcome of multiple elections.

When: Dan Rather Reports "The Trouble with Touch Screens" will air Tuesday, August 14 at 8:00 p.m. ET. The program also airs at 11:00 p.m. ET to accommodate west coast prime time.

A screener clip is available.

This special will only air on HD Net so not everyone will be able to see it but I’m quite sure copies will end up online within a very short time.

In the clip, pay special attention to the fact that the only quality assurance test performed on the machines by ES&S workers before they’re shipped out is a so-called "shake test" to ensure no loose pieces were left in the machines manufactured in the Philippines.

These workers making only $2.10-$2.50 per day work in sweat shops operated by ES&S must do so where rats and snakes are removed by the truckload daily.

And the American who was dispatched to deal with problems at the factory back in 2001, admits that the touch-screens failed and "bubbled" as far back as then. But what has been done about it since?

I think it’d be an understatement to say that this has the potential to be big folks. It’s apparently the evidence we’ve been looking for since at least the 2004 election.

Watch the clip, it starts out with Christine Jennings talking about her 2006 congressional district race in Sarasota, Fla. (my district btw) in which she lost by a pitifully small number of votes.

And, the evidence of sweatshops could make this a TWO-FER!

Finally JUSTICE! (I’m praying)


Originally posted to markthshark on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:38 PM PDT.

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Comment Preferences

  •  This is BIG folks! (157+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    arlam, Mary, GainesT1958, Alumbrados, zzyzx, sj, pb, bluecayuga, ks, Iddybud, AlanF, emal, tommurphy, Shockwave, PhillyGal, acuppajo, Woody, RFK Lives, dpc, opinionated, EvieCZ, bronte17, matthewc, elveta, whenwego, chuckvw, vmibran, roses, itsmitch, ctsteve, splashy, sidnora, Alohaleezy, psnyder, oldjohnbrown, Eddie in ME, Builderman, niteskolar, joan reports, renaissance grrrl, lcrp, Dave925, Needa Bigger Pretzel, jen, lurker123, vacantlook, Scout Finch, Josiah Bartlett, Timroff, davidincleveland, god less force, Bluesee, Tinfoil Hat, ichibon, baccaruda, revbludge, ESkog, PBen, kamarvt, Simplify, ZappoDave, Valtin, dogemperor, zbctj52, dewtx, drewfromct, Gary Norton, concerned, deliciae, jimreyn, John DE, GreyHawk, Little Lulu, lasky57, Blue Generalist, Team Slacker, SleeplessinSeattle, Paddy999, Tigana, noweasels, xaxnar, happynz, dus7, Showman, dsteele2, Kingsmeg, Ellicatt, koNko, greenearth, blueoasis, tecampbell, MJ via Chicago, StrayCat, nonnie9999, Crashing Vor, DJShay, Sagebrush Bob, BalkanID, armadillo, CTLiberal, Preston S, totallynext, feduphoosier, Turbonerd, Unknown Quantity, doingbusinessas, means are the ends, lynneinfla, Statusquomustgo, Mary2002, crystal eyes, Temmoku, AllanTBG, sdgeek, One Pissed Off Liberal, Abraham Running For Congress When I Turn 25, john07801, DrSteveB, Randall Sherman, ibonewits, pfiore8, Cronesense, army193, Sarasota Lib, maxalb, chigh, Jimdotz, greenchiledem, Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle, dolphin777, ca democrat, Heyroot, Carib and Ting, sabershadow, jhop7, carpunder, Bikemom, willb48, MKinTN, califdem, Wes Opinion, Mannabass, Archangel, jamess, Happy Days, Lujane, TH Seed, DanK Is Back, asius, Drewid, paxmonger, LaFajita, o the umanity, GWboosebag, gopher747, chadmichael, fubarry
  •  Interesting... (16+ / 0-)

    ...of course, how "big" this is will really depend on what he uncovers, won't it?

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:39:59 PM PDT

    •  True but "conclusive" says a lot, eh? (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Jay Elias, blueoasis, tecampbell

      I pray!

      •  Sure... (12+ / 0-)

        ...but what is it conclusive about?  Collusion between the manufacturers and the Republican Party?  Fraud by the company?  Or simple evidence of faulty results?

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:45:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yeah the press release says nothing of fraud (4+ / 0-)

          it only talks about faulty machines.

          I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

          by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:01:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Wouldn't using faulty voting machines... (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            G2geek, tecampbell

            in national elections constitute "fraud."

            Come'on. If it doesn't, this country's in worse shape than even I thought.

            •  That's incorrect- you're misusing terms (8+ / 0-)
              Showing that machines CAN be misused is not proof that they WERE and "fraud" means not the POTENTIAL for screwing with election results, but the actuality that it was done.

              A new beginning for Ohio: The adults have taken over!

              by anastasia p on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:11:33 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  yeah the clip shows that the machines were (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Savage, jxg, Jimdotz

                faulty, not rigged. Maybe there's more to the story, but the clip and the press release are focused on defective machines.

                I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

                by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:17:26 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  it still messes with voter intent (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Savage, WisVoter, G2geek

                but minus the conspiracy theory.

                I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

                by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:17:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

              •  speaking as an engineer... (12+ / 0-)

                If you have a system that has a high rate of errors and overt failures, that system is much easier to hack and get away with it.  

                The reason is, the hacking is less likely to stand out amidst the noise of the random errors and failures.  

                On the other hand, if the system was produced under conditions that minimized ordinary failures, ithe "noise level" of such cases would be small, and the "signal" of hacking would stand out that much more clearly.  

                In no way should we trust the vital infrastructure of our democracy to shitty manufacturing and "shake the box" QC.  We sure as hell wouldn't tolerate our military hardware being produced that way.  

                Imagine if the ES&S standard of quality was applied to our military's field rifles, much less to our ICBMs and strategic submarine fleet and jet fighters.  No way in hell would we tolerate it.  

                And in any case, if a voting machine fails to record your vote accurately, it has effectively cheated you of your vote.  And if that occurred as the result of a crony contract, the cronies have defrauded the public of the right to have an accurate voting system.  That's also a form of election fraud: crony contracts defrauding the public of accurate voting systems, and crappy voting systems failing to record votes accurately.  

                So yeah, this story is important.  I hope Rather manages to explain exactly why.  And too damn bad this is only being televised over paid systems.  We need more of this on regular broadcast free-to-watch TV.  

                •  geek 2 geek (3+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  splashy, G2geek, OHdog

                  Well, why this isn't "Justice AT LAST" is that so what, we already knew ES&S and Diebold use crappy windows machines with poorly written software.

                  What is known is the calibration issues with the touchscreens.  But what was NOT addressed or answered by Dan Rather is that all the reports of "vote jumping" or poorly calibrated touchscreens registering votes one line down...  How come of thousands of these reports like 80-90% of them were Kerry to Bush "jumps".

                  What I wonder is did they know about bad touchscreens and plan the ballot rotation around this on purpose??  If your touchscreen was compressed up near the edges, you put Kerry first, Bush seconds, and you would get jumping.

                  Is it a big story that EAC and The Election Center and NASED control who can sell voting machines and the sham of a hardware certification non-sense that EAC and Ciber etc. have been allowed to perpetrate.

                  These five to maybe nine voting system vendors are like leeches sucking money from the US and providing nothing in return, except old Wally from Diebold did deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004 just like he said.

                  •  for which the cure is.... (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    zbctj52, markthshark, o the umanity

                    Numbered paper ballots, ideally with built in carbon paper to create duplicate forms so the voter has a hard copy of his/her ballot, associated with a serial number, that can be used to track the original if needed.  

                    And then count them by hand with the public watching.  In fact the public could watch via webcams installed over the counting tables, with closeups of the various elements of the count in progress.  Webcast it and run it on local TV as well.  

                    We can wait another day or two to get the results.  Quality over speed.  

                    •  No voter copy. You can make a list of how to vote (0+ / 0-)

                      but the old Chicago and NYC machines would have had a ball paying only those voters with a certified copy of voting the "right" way.

                      I want to hear somebody asking them why They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are But theyre never the ones to fight or to die - J. Brown

                      by OHdog on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 04:57:47 AM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  oh great, i just learned... (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        markthshark, OHdog

                        ...another way to steal.  It never fails to amaze me, how many ways there are for dishonest people to make trouble.  Like the ones who buy expensive clothes on a Friday, wear them to a party on Friday night, and return them to the store on Saturday for refunds.  Disgusting.  

                        OK, so no hard copy.  But give each voter the serial number of the ballot, so that in a recount situation where election-stealing is alleged, s/he can go in and verify that the ballot was counted as it was cast.  

                        •  Good idea! Easy and maybe foolproof n/t (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          I want to hear somebody asking them why They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are But theyre never the ones to fight or to die - J. Brown

                          by OHdog on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 07:00:51 PM PDT

                          [ Parent ]

                          •  a good friend of mine suggested... (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            something very much like it.

                            You'd have your serial number, and then when the ballots were counted, they would be posted online such that you could input your serial number anonymously and check the way your ballot was counted, and compare it to whatever record you wanted to keep of it.  

                            Problem with that of course, is that it runs into the same trouble as the carbon copy idea: people could be threatened or paid off based on their votes being verified by the threatener or briber.  

                            However if you just let people go into an office where they can present their serial numbered stub to make the comparison, particularly if it has their name etc. on it and is checked against their state ID, then there's no potential for fraud unless someone takes your receipt and forges an ID with their picture on it.  Unlikely at best.  

                  •  bullshit (0+ / 0-)

                    No way did Wally from Diebold deliver Ohio for Bush in 2004. There wasn't enough Diebold in Ohio for Wally to deliver it. No Diebold touchscreens at all.

                    I'm getting pretty sick of that particular 'don't bother me with pesky details' meme.

                    And no effin' way was ballot rotation in Ohio planned with some intention of stealing the election by hacking/miscalibrating/?? touchscreens (regardless of manufacturer), because there weren't enough touchscreens in all of Ohio for that to have a prayer of working. Nor were the vote counts on Ohio touchscreens out of line, so the statistics indicate that any vote-switching on them was probably minimal.

                    If you don't believe me, hell, run the numbers yourself. Precinct-level returns for the entire state have been available for free download for two years now.

                    Besides, by law, the ballot rotation in Ohio is in alphabetical order. So it wasn't possible to "put Kerry first, Bush second." Of course the machines could've been jobbed with that in mind, although the vote counts suggest that they weren't (at least not very well).

                    •  wow (0+ / 0-)

                      YOu do realize that the Voter Registration Databases and processing of signatures was done by certain vendors depending upon county in Ohio.  

                      You do realize that a large majority of the counties used GEMS in 2004 for central tabulator.  But, yeah, no touchscreens.  

                      There are thousands of reports of vote jumping from 2004.  While I mostly only attribute that to calibration errors, it is well documented.  And in Ohio KERRY was next line to BUSH, so tell me again how a calibration error couldn't cause a press on line A to show up on line B?  (You can mis-calibrate up or down  You are correct that I meant, put touchscreens that are way off on calibration and assign them to the ballot rotation of BUSH, KERRY, NADER, PEROUTKA, BADARIK.

                      Now if the calibration is registering as too far above, then Bush presses just won't register and people will keep pressing around until the checkbox shows up next to Bush.

                      I have looked at the spreadsheets, and maybe you can explain to me the gay-friendly rural red county Bush voters that also voted for a democratic judge.

                      •  wow indeed (0+ / 0-)

                        It's fine to move the goalposts by talking about voter registration databases and GEMS, but even then, you still have to score. If you think you have a theory under which Diebold might have thrown Ohio, you will sure have to do a better job of putting it across.

                        I didn't say that "a calibration error couldn't cause a press on line A to show up on line B." In fact, I actually said that the machines could've been jobbed with ballot order in mind. How simple did I have to make it?

                        You are correct that I meant, put touchscreens that are way off on calibration and assign them to the ballot rotation of BUSH, KERRY, NADER, PEROUTKA, BADARIK.

                        That's what you "meant" by "put Kerry first, Bush seconds"? OK, stuff happens. FWIW, since Kerry always comes after Bush in alphabetical order, Kerry is just below Bush in 4 of the 5 ballot orders. I don't see much need for the hypothetical tamperer to fine-tune which machines get assigned where.

                        The hitch, as I already wrote twice, is that the vote counts on DREs aren't out of line with the vote counts on other voting technologies. Conceivably they could all be hacked more or less equally, but that seems less like explaining the data than explaining away the data.

                        I have looked at the spreadsheets

                        Excellent. What is the standard deviation of Kerry's vote share? of Connally's? Discuss.

                        For extra credit, present evidence about the proportion of voters who knew that Connally was a "gay-friendly" Democrat.

                        •  not that it matters (0+ / 0-)

                          The "gay-friendly" was Issue 1 voters that also voted for Bush, and in addition most of those rural Issue 1 Bush voters did also vote for Connally, lest you think the gay-friendly strictly referred to confused rural folks who don't know who Connally is.

                          What proportion of rural voters do you think knew what Issue 1 was about?  Do you think they confused same-sex marriage and what "yes" means and "no" means?

                          And Ohio votes by same machine per county except for absentees.  So are you saying the absentee and at poll punchcard were in-line as were the absentee and DRE?  Are you comparing 2000 / 2006 percentages to 2004 vote?  Does that show the "in line" with those county voters?

                          The hitch, and what Dan Rather and this thread was about is touchscreen calibration errors.  Period.  You add in the many hundreds of affidavits on "vote jumping" and thousands of reports of Kerry pressed registering a touchscreen press for Bush.  That is what I am saying, and your brave, definitive statement of DREs are inline with other voting technologies doesn't have much weight.  

                          Besides, the majority of Ohio used punchcards in 2004.  Lake, Knox, Ross, Pickaway, Mahoning and Franklin counties are the only Electronic voting, and Franklin used ancient Danaher machines.  So you can keep nitpicking on Diebold and how they had nothing to do with anything, but you do realize Wally promised to deliver Ohio and he did.

                          There is overwhelming evidence of fraud and theft in many counties, and recently most counties have illegally shredded the ballots that could have been examined as evidence.

                          •  sure, it matters (0+ / 0-)

                            It's basically the same deal: Kerry support varied a lot more than Issue 1 support; many Kerry voters voted for Issue 1, and many (although fewer) Bush voters voted against it. For what it's worth, in the unweighted exit poll data, those percentages statewide are about 36% and 20% respectively. Lots of Bush voters voted against Issue 1.

                            This was predictable, and may even have been predicted, although I don't know whether anyone printed a pre-election cross-tab of Issue 1 support by presidential support. But even as easily as Issue 1 passed, there was too much opposition for it all (plausibly) to come from Kerry supporters.

                            With Connally at least there is the (specious) claim of an empirical anomaly. With Issue 1, all I've seen is an assertion or assumption that it was bizarre for Bush voters to vote against Issue 1. (Richard Hayes Phillips did write in his 9/06 declaration: "And it is unlikely that Bush received more votes [in some counties] than Issue One, which passed with 61% of the vote, compared to 51% for Bush, statewide."  That might suggest an empirical comparison with past tallies. But RHP doesn't go there. Instead, he says, "One would not expect thousands of gay marriage supporters to vote for Bush." That is a terrible argument considering the lengths to which the no-on-1 campaign went to insist that opposing Issue 1 was not about supporting gay marriage.) Your own argument appears to reduce to rhetorical questions.

                            Why did some rural (or other) Bush supporters vote against Issue 1? Any number of reasons. Some might have thought it was a bad idea to tinker with the state constitution over that issue. Some may make it a habit to vote against ballot issues. Some may have accepted the argument that Issue 1 would hurt business interests, which -- as I'm sure you know -- was (quite controversially) a central theme of the campaign against Issue 1. Some may have followed the lead of Republican governor Bob Taft and other state Republican leader who opposed the issue. Some may even have thought they were voting against gay marriage. Maybe there are reasons I haven't thought of. It doesn't matter. My inability to read minds doesn't constitute evidence for rampant fraud. If the results are actually anomalous, someone should make a better argument about why.

                            The generalization that DRE returns are "in line" holds, as far as I can tell, whether one compares Bush shares to other shares within 2004, or to shares in 2002, or to shares in 2000. It is true at both county and precinct levels, with a big caveat about votes cast in Franklin County (probably a long-line problem, not a vote-deletion issue). If there is a plausible test that would demonstrate the DRE (and/or op-scan) results to be anomalous, it sure would be nice for someone to mention it, now that it's August 2007.

                            I'm aware that the diary and much of the thread is about touchscreen calibration errors, and I stand by my unrebutted argument that they don't appear to have materially influenced the results. You're the one who started hauling in other issues. And you do it again here: "Besides, the majority of Ohio used punchcards in 2004." Exactly right. That's the basis of my observation that the DRE returns weren't out of line. Doh. (And no, that doesn't prove that the DREs were accurate, as I already pointed out.)

                            You've presented no evidence of "thousands of reports" of Kerry votes registering for Bush, in Ohio or even nationwide. We all know that some machines in Mahoning County were removed from service because of vote-switching reports. It's conceivable that some machines malfunctioned without anyone complaining; it's also conceivable that few if any actual votes were affected before the machines were removed from service. If you have evidence pointing toward the former, by all means, present it.

                            but you do realize Wally promised to deliver Ohio and he did.


                            Well, O'Dell wrote in a fundraising letter that he was committed to delivering Ohio's electoral votes. Are you saying that that was a promise to hack the punch card readers? Setting that aside, are you saying that he did hack the punch card readers? Can you suggest a plausible mechanism by which your claim could be true, never mind present evidence that it is? (Umm, how many counties did Diebold supply punch card readers for?)

                            I don't get it. Don't you think you have some sort of obligation to, y'know, sort of make sense? Can't we talk about election fraud and misfeasance without (apparently) attributing supernatural powers to Wally O'Dell?

                          •  by the way (0+ / 0-)

                            Maybe this is sort of obvious, but -- suppose, for convenience, that some proportion of Kerry voters in every county voted for Issue 1, and some smaller proportion of Bush voters in every county voted against it. (In real life surely the proportion varied -- in particular, it seems clear that blacks were more likely to vote for Kerry and for Issue 1 -- but the first-order analysis still has some bite.) Then there will be a break-even proportion of Bush voters for which Bush's vote share equals Issue 1's vote share. Above that proportion, Issue 1 will have a lower vote share than Bush even though it did better statewide. Since actually fewer people voted on Issue 1 than in the presidential race, it is even easier to obtain more votes for Bush than for Issue 1 in particular counties.

                            And where will Bush receive more votes than Issue 1? Where his vote share was highest. Why does Richard Hayes Phillips express skeptical surprise that Bush received more votes than Issue 1 where his vote share was highest? Unknown.

            •  well it sounds more like (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              jxg, G2geek

              it's gross negligence more than fraud, from what the video talks about.

              I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

              by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:16:10 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Gross negligence becomes fraud (5+ / 0-)

                when the company advertises that its machines are extensively tested and found reliable.

                What if Cheney is merely a rook? Who the heck is in control of this chessboard?

                by tecampbell on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:31:21 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  maybe, but that's different than what's commonly (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  discussed as voter fraud. Intent is very different.

                  I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

                  by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:34:48 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  I posted about that on another thread here. :P (0+ / 0-)

                    Intent to favor a party is much harder to prove.  ES&S' ownership implies a likely intent, but doesn't prove it.

                    What if Cheney is merely a rook? Who the heck is in control of this chessboard?

                    by tecampbell on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:37:59 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  proving that by sending these machines (1+ / 0-)
                      Recommended by:

                      to be manufactured poorly so that they are defective is damn well impossible and a pretty stupid way to intentionally disrupt an election. There's absolutely no proof whatsoever that these defects lean towards any partisan intent. Face it folks. It's good old fashioned negligence and incompetence. The ridiculous thing is that negligence and incompetence are WAY more of a danger to voter intent and always has been, than any conspiracy Karl Rove could cook up, but that's just not sexy enough for people to be interested in.

                      I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

                      by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:44:16 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  What if they only send the bad machines (5+ / 0-)

                        to certain districts?  A point to research.

                        Nevertheless, I stand by my original statement:  this is fraud.  Corporate fraud at the very least, but still fraud.

                        What if Cheney is merely a rook? Who the heck is in control of this chessboard?

                        by tecampbell on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:47:15 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  malfeasance = fraud (3+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        splashy, Sagebrush Bob, markthshark

                        The greater the level of defects, the greater the potential for a deliberate alteration to go undetected.  Think of signal-to-noise ratio.  The higher the noise level, the harder to spot the signal.  

                        Yes, it's oldfashioned negligence and incompetence.  It's also an "attractive nuisance" to those who would attempt to deliberately hack the machines, an opportunity that begs to be taken advantage of by dishonest people, like a broken ATM that spits out $20 bills at random.

                        You don't have to prove deliberate intent.  All you have to prove is that the failure of due diligence was substantial enough to add up to malfeasance.  

                        •  high-tech poll tax (2+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:
                          splashy, G2geek

                          Yep, broken machines and buggy ones and bad backup batteries are the modern poll tax.  Local officials can plan which machines go where.  I'm willing to bet if you noticed a broken machine (jammed paper) in a white suburb and wrote down the machine serial, it won't be there next year.  I'm also willing to bet in poor urban precincts, the same machine WILL be there next year.

                          •  that suggests a tactic... (2+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:
                            splashy, markthshark

                            Pass laws requiring that every voting machine's service history be made public along with its serial number.

                            Then on election day, write down the SNs of the machines in each polling place.  And see if there is any pattern, for example a preponderance of buggy ones in the largely Democratic districts or in certain minority neighborhoods or whatever.

                            Hopefully we won't have to bother because the damn things will be decertified and deposited in the nearest landfill.  

                          •  sadly (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            someone got arrested for ducking behind a machine trying to write down the serial number.. So.. maybe a plan B.  

                            I do know the security stickers are all over the machines, if you wrote one of those down, you could get the cross-reference from the county to eventually get the machine number.  In Ohio they are really weird about machine numbers now.  They have to remove them from VVPATs before public can view them.  And they will no longer release a precinct level machine report.  It's only the mass one report for a whole precinct.  The crooks try and tell me it just isn't possible to generate a machine level anymore  (Well they claim they never could, but my CDROM begs to differ)

                          •  then go in there with lawyers. (1+ / 0-)
                            Recommended by:

                            Go into the polling place with lawyers and look at every single voting machine.  And if the precinct workers threaten to call the cops, great, make a court case about it: the public's right to know the service history of every voting machine.

                            The more we can make it an unbearable hassle for counties to use these hack-prone monstrosities, the sooner they'll end up in the dumpster where they belong.  

                          •  wrong (0+ / 0-)

                            Before you go and get people arrested.

                            In Ohio the law is that no person shall be inside the polling place except in order to vote lawfully unless you are an observer, police, or poll worker.  Period.  And you can no longer be an observer without the appropriate form filed in advance of the election assigning your name to one particular polling place, and only recognized observers must be from Dem, Rep, and Issue group, or a consortium of five independent candidates that all file the proper paperwork to allow for their observers.

                            So, yeah, you walk in with your lawyer, and you can technically be thrown in jail.

                            The simple case is that you cannot even approach a voting machine if there is a voter at it probably even for observers.  In addition, most counties have zero privacy and no curtains, so you can see their screen from half of the room.

                          •  about zero privacy (0+ / 0-)

                            OK, then file as poll watchers and go at it that way.  

                            Meanwhile, about the lack of curtains and the visiblity of the screens from across the room:

                            Someone needs to go after that one as a violation of the right to a a secret ballot.  There is exactly zero excuse for that, any more than there is for installing a public toilet in the middle of a hallway with no partitions around it.  As if curtains and partitions and suchlike are such complicated and expensive technology that we can't possibly do them in the 21st century.  Sheesh!

                      •  But crappy machines (2+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:
                        splashy, markthshark

                        aren't the only big red arrows pointing to intentional fraud.

                        Serendipity has absolutely plagued this administration since 2000. My belief in miracles and coincidences ended about six years ago.

                        Okay, I'm here. Now, where's that free government cheese?

                        by Executive Odor on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 05:07:20 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                      •  I don't buy it. (1+ / 0-)
                        Recommended by:

                        I don't agree that it is simply negligence and incompetence.

                        Sure, some software is complex and errors are just a fact of life. But we're not talking about complex operating system software or intricate algorithms.  

                        The software required to simply take input from a screen and increment a counter for one variable (candidate) or another is as about a simple a program as there is (besides "Hello world").

                        Even a third-rate shitty programmer could do that without a lot of fuss. And what of the testing/quality control? Testing a voting system isn't rocket science either, as there aren't that many decision branches to verify.

                        As a former programmer, I just don't buy the 'incompetence' angle. It smells of deliberate action used to gum up the works when the real hacking is done, as others have postulated.

                        Impeach President Cheney and his little monkey too!

                        by HighSticking on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 08:34:02 AM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  a view from someone who reviewed the code (1+ / 0-)
                          Recommended by:

                          Much of the controversy around electronic voting concerns the possibility of hidden "backdoors" incorporated by a nefarious vendor. Properly obfuscated, such mischief would be almost impossible to detect. Yet our reports chronicle software weakened not by apparent malice but by a litany of elementary mistakes: static cryptographic keys, unsecured interfaces, poorly validated inputs, buffer overflows, and basic programming errors in security-critical modules. Deliberate backdoors in these systems, if any existed, would be largely superfluous.

                          Matt Blaze

                          The problem isn't with the add-one logic.

                          •  (Sequoia code, that is) (0+ / 0-)

                            Different teams worked on different systems in use in California.

                            What Blaze here says seems consistent with comments by other computer scientists who have reviewed various code bases. One can conjecture that the incompetence is deliberate, but there's no apparent need for that hypothesis.

                  •  it defrauds the public of... (4+ / 0-)

                    ...the right to an election system that records votes accurately.  And every voter whose vote is screwed up by a known-crappy system, has been defrauded of their vote.  

                    AND, the "noise" of random errors and machine failures also makes it more difficult to detect overt hacking.  This is like setting up a computer system without passwords, or leaving  the keys to one's car in the ignition with the windows rolled down: it's an attractive nuisance, it's just begging to be exploited by someone.  And where there's a way, there's a will.    

          •  But Diarist said it's BIG (4+ / 0-)


            No offense diarist, but yeah I think we have to wait and see what it says.

            "History will judge the GOP abdication to NeoCons as the single worst tactical blunder since the Taliban gave safe harbor to Osama bin Laden"

            by BentLiberal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:20:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you can watch the 12 minute clip (2+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis, BentLiberal

              if you go to the link.

              I choked on your post. It nearly killed me. Hitler killed people. Your post is just like Hitler. - Pope Bandar bin Turtle

              by Buffalo Girl on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:21:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  All right, I got excited lol... (3+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              blueoasis, Sagebrush Bob, BentLiberal

              Hey, I've had to live with freakin' Vern Buchanan for nine months now.

              (and, it's late lol)

              •  I just watched the video clip. (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                chuckvw, Sagebrush Bob, markthshark

                I think it's a good solid piece of reporting and can only help the cause. I just wonder how much impact it will have overall. But I really do appreciate you diarying on it. Thanks much.

                BTW I was happy to see that the new Sec. of State in California decertified several machines that failed tests she had set up.

                Maybe this report can provide support and evidence to local and state election officials trying to rid themselves of this particular machine, and others too,

                Thanks again for the diary,

                "History will judge the GOP abdication to NeoCons as the single worst tactical blunder since the Taliban gave safe harbor to Osama bin Laden"

                by BentLiberal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:42:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Thanks, yes, the Cali thing is timely... (1+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:

                  Hopefully, Waxman will call a hearing and further expose this crap.

                  I said:

                  It’s apparently the evidence we’ve been looking for since at least the 2004 election.

                  ... 'cuz until now, all we've had is anecdotal evidence of harassment at the polls in Ohio and such. And, the "caging" lists, of course.

                  If indeed the Bush administration procured these machines without properly inspecting them for quality - or didn't bother getting contractual assurances that they were inspected for such. It would seem to me that would constitute "fraud."

                  •  Does the Bush Administration procure machines? (3+ / 0-)
                    Recommended by:
                    YetiMonk, Sagebrush Bob, markthshark

                    Doesn't each individual state, county or other type of electoral district procure their own machines?

                    If indeed the Bush administration procured these machines without properly inspecting them for quality - or didn't bother getting contractual assurances that they were inspected for such. It would seem to me that would constitute "fraud."

                    "History will judge the GOP abdication to NeoCons as the single worst tactical blunder since the Taliban gave safe harbor to Osama bin Laden"

                    by BentLiberal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 11:32:32 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

        •  It's conclusive proof (5+ / 0-)

          that temperatures in Manilla factories sometimes go "higher than 90 degrees".

          Dan Rather actually said that.

          Then, he got an exclusive interview with a worker who attests that it's hard to repair a voting machine when you're holding a piece of cardboard and fanning yourself.

          •  yo d00d, you don't know what you're (4+ / 0-)

            talking about.

            Sure, go ahead and make snide snarky remarks if you like.  

            What you fail to recognize is...

            One:  Signal to noise ratio.  The higher the level of random errors, the harder it is to detect cases of overt hacking.  

            Two:  Defrauding voters.  If the machine fails to record your vote accurately, you have been cheated of your vote.  If this occurs as the result of crony contracts and suchlike, then the voters as a whole have been cheated of their right to have accurate elections.  
            Three: Malfeasance:  At minimum on the part of ES&S officials, who tolerated those conditions and the shitty machines that resulted.  There is a point at which negligence becomes actionable, and there is a point where failure of due diligence becomes culpable as malfeasance.  

            •  Also... (4+ / 0-)

              I think would be interesting to learn what sort of "investigation" was conducted in Florida that would make it possible for the state to conclude that there was no problem with these machines.

              •  Excellent point Sage... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                G2geek, Sagebrush Bob

                I live in Jennings' district. I'm going to try and find out who did the inspections.

                It should be archived in my local newspaper.

              •  This was archived in the Sarasota Herald... (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sagebrush Bob, o the umanity

                Tribune on Feb. 8, 2007

                Unwilling to wait for the courts to rule on the disputed Sarasota elections, a key member of the U.S. Senate is launching an investigation into the 13th Congressional District race.

                U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., said she will ask the investigative arm of Congress, the Government Accountability Office, and the National Institute of Standards and Technology to conduct a "top-to-bottom investigation" to determine what caused 18,000 Sarasota County undervotes in...

                The GAO must be the ones overseeing the investigation.

                I'm still looking for more articles.

                •  Here's another... (2+ / 0-)
                  Recommended by:
                  Sagebrush Bob, o the umanity

                  ES&S urges court to ignore congresswoman's letter

                  Published on January 10, 2007, Article 2 of 2 found.
                  (Sarasota Herald-Tribune (FL){PUBLICATION2, 379 words.)}

                  The maker of the voting machines used in Sarasota County's contested Congressional election wants a state appeals court to ignore a letter from a member of Congress.

                  Attorneys for Election Systems & Software filed a motion with the 1st District Court of Appeal in Tallahassee on Tuesday, urging the court to strike the letter from U.S. Rep. Juanita Millender-McDonald, D-Calif. In her letter dated Jan. 4, Millender-McDonald, chairwoman of the House Committee on...

                  I'll get the full articles in the morning.

              •  that's not what the study found (3+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Sagebrush Bob, markthshark, pfiore8

                I think the Florida SoS had a home page for all this stuff, but I don't know where it is. The software review and security analysis is here.

                It found plenty of problems with the machines -- just not any that the investigators thought were likely to account for the runaway undervotes. (That's my one-sentence takeaway; your mileage may vary.)

    •  More likely (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      it will depend more on whether the msm will report it with any honesty or accuracy. . .or report it at all.

      I don't expect much of it will get out across the nation.

      *the blogger formerly known as shirlstars

      by Shirl In Idaho on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:09:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  does anyone else want to count the minutes... (11+ / 0-)

    ...before the wingnuts erupt in shouting about fonts and kearning?

    Maybe people are more likely to listen now, but there will still be a big stink.

  •  HD Net... only on DirecTV, right? (5+ / 0-)

    Luckily, that's what I have but this is not going to be a ratings grabber. We can uprate it on a YouTube clip but otherwise, unfortunately, this may fall through the cracks. Unless Dan Rather goes on a media blitz to show this.

    The first person to ever brew beer was probably naked.

    by bobinson on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:43:04 PM PDT

  •  well, some states are already and independently (6+ / 0-)

    reaching the same conclusions, no?

    and the Diebold machines used at the R's Iowa Straw Poll screwed up too! hehe ... from what I've read, err, somewhere on these Internets today

    "If you want a winner, who can take them on, I'm your girl" ... Hillary Clinton

    by PhillyGal on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:43:27 PM PDT

  •  Big question is whether Congress will listen. (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sc kitty, markthshark, pfiore8, dolphin777

    they are under a lot of pressure not to make to many changes in the current bill such as prohibiting the touch screen machines. That is the only solution but i fear we will not see it for this next election cycle.

  •  What a drag that it's Dan R doing this. (6+ / 0-)

    If it is conclusive, somebody else should introduce it.  It's going to be "that Dan Rather story" with 30% of the "folks."

    I'm a Rather groupie and I still wish somebody else had broken this.

    Nanotechnology can take atmospheric CO2 and make diamonds and fresh air.

    by Crashing Vor on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:46:16 PM PDT

  •  Surprise, Surprise! Surprise! (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    blueoasis, Sagebrush Bob, pfiore8

    Gomer Pyle.

  •  Thanks markthshark for this Important Tip ! (n/t) (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sc kitty, Sagebrush Bob, markthshark
  •  what's HD Net? (5+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    jxg, sc kitty, Gary Norton, pfiore8, dolphin777

    So many few brains. --Philip Marlowe

    by Castine on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 09:54:18 PM PDT

  •  RNC wants machine serial numbers (11+ / 0-)

    In a recent story about further evidence of vote caging by Tim Griffin and the crew in 2004, an RNC-produced "poll watcher's guide" is included in recently released court documents.

    On page 37, it asks GOP poll watchers to collect the serial numbers of touch screen machines.

    Why would the GOP need a list of touch screen machine serial numbers?

    •  We were also asked (7+ / 0-)
      to carefully note and double-check -- "collect" if you will -- serial numbers in our poll watchers guide. I was observing last November for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Ted Strickland in Ohio.  We needed this information to guard against possbile hanky panky by our former Sec'y of State Ken Blackwell. I don't find this particularly sinister as we did it too.

      A new beginning for Ohio: The adults have taken over!

      by anastasia p on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:14:53 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Sure, but why? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        Aside from the touch screen machines,  I see no mandates to collect the serial #'s from optical scanners or mechanical lever voting machines.  Why the emphasis on touch screen?

        For a technology plagued with security flaws, I would think that a list of serial numbers (information that doesn't change, mind you!) might be quite useful to someone with nefarious plans.   The machines are connected to the web on election day and they download software from the web.  What identifiers do they use other than serial #'s?

        •  It's SOP (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Simplify, citizen92

          I've worked many elections as an election official and a party poll watcher (not at the same time).  You basically collect numbers to match against the totals.  Totals are taken by machine.  It's just a way of cross checking.

          Real vote fraud, massive fraud, comes from manipulation of voter sign in books.  You know, the book poll watchers check your name from when you show up to vote.  Those numbers are often not tracked.  In VA, we do a running total of voters who showed up.  Some places don't even do that.

          However, fraud is suspect when, for some mysterious reason, those voter books disappear.  Then, you have no way of know WHO actually turned out to vote.  Since the names, only totals are collected, its impossible to determine who really voted.  And, say, you have a county where the GOP candidate gets 85% of the vote.  If the voter list is gone, you cannot go back and check to see if those numbers make any sense.  If you control the book, you can add names as you see fit.

  •  Umm. (14+ / 0-)


    I'm watching the video.  Dan Rather is saying the temperature in the factory sometimes goes higher than 90 degrees.  A factory worker says it's hard to repairs on a voting maching when you're holding a piece of cardboard and fanning yourself.  It's like a Monty Python skit.

    In any case: this is not conclusive proof of voter fraud.  It is conclusive proof that factory jobs suck, and so does quality control, frequently.

  •  Send it to Pelosi and get Christine Jennings into (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sockpuppet, sc kitty, markthshark

    her rightful position as FL-13's representative, damn it!

    Primary elections: Vote for the Democrat you prefer; General elections: Vote for the Democrat. There's nothing difficult about this, people.

    by PatsBard on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:09:17 PM PDT

  •  arew we talking fraud here (8+ / 0-)

    or are we talking about faulty machines?

  •  Backhanded Slap? (6+ / 0-)

    I still prefer the "deliberate voter fraud perpetrated by GOP operatives" angle; this story seems to implicate the manufacturer through non-adherence to the proper procedures manufacturing and QC'ing the articles, am I right?

    In other words, the operatives (and there were many), are still not the target.  This means that the "outcome of the elections", and the deviation from the mean of an astronomically-large amount can still be the result of random occurrences.

    Unless Dan digs deeper, this story does not prove election fraud to the level I would seek.  But, hey, I'll still take it.  Bravo Dan!

    Am I missing something?  Would this result in something even Bev Harris would applaud?  That would really suit me!

    BTW, Dan Rather is a journalist I am not ashamed of.  Hell, I'm proud of him, I haven't heard anything bad about him that I believe.

  •  This will be BIG (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    srkp23, Dave925, lotlizard

    And you can file it right next to BIG story #18,542, and BIG story #18,543.

    "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right." - Salvor Hardin

    by Zackpunk on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:15:17 PM PDT

  •  Dan Rather goes to other side of (6+ / 0-)

    Earth, gets people to bitch about factory work.  


  •  They'll shoot Rather down by saying he's (4+ / 0-)

    a biased reporter with an agenda. He tried
    to shoot Bush down with the national guard story
    (they'll say), and he's doing another phony hatchet job

    •  Honestly, (7+ / 0-)

      if Mother Teresa came back from the grave to say God told her to tell the world that Bush stole the election(s), they would call her a dirty whore and Satan worshipper.  

      The question is whether anyone besides the 25%-ers still believes them.

      Mark Twain -Let me make the superstitions of a nation and I care not who makes its laws or its songs either.

      by Kingsmeg on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:49:42 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  She's Not "Saved" (0+ / 0-)

        She didn't say the magic words.  And she belonged to the "wrong" church.  You have to be a member of a mega mega church, and believe that God is gonna make you rich to get into heaven and to have any credibility in these United States.

        She didn't believe in the power of God to make the people she cared for rich.  Imagine if she had, and all of those poor slum dwellers in India would be driving BMWs and flying around in private jets to do God's work.  And the fact of their poverty means they apparently were not worthy.  God wants you to be rich and healthy.  When you live with God, God makes you rich and healthy.  When you are sick and poor, it is a sign of God's disfavor.  If you're poor, how can you give 10% to your pastor, er, I mean The Church?  Obviously God wants your 10%, and God wants it to be a lot.  Mother Teresa - she didn't believe any of that.  A woman of poor faith.

        this is snark... just in case.

  •  "Bush Has Honest Principles"' would be news (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    sockpuppet, blueoasis, markthshark

    When and where has Bush not lied or cheated?

    It cats could talk, they wouldn't.

    by crystal eyes on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:31:41 PM PDT

  •  Amazing.... (4+ / 0-)

    ...from ridicule of "dimpled and hanging chads" to a federal law and on to massive federal and state expenditures on voting machines with no technical standards or open architecture on the software and it is all junk.

  •  Argh I wish I had an HD TV! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    We watched him in our hotel room, while on our trip to San Fran last month... it was heaven having a real news anchor again (one I could actually believe!)  

    I'd give anything to see this!  I wonder if it will be available on the web or any other way?

  •  I'm confused (6+ / 0-)

    you say the special will show:

    conclusive new evidence of nationwide election-fraud

    But your link says nothing of the kind. Rather, it talks about "conclusive evidence of the failure of touch screen voting machines across the country", which is bad enough.

    From your diary, I thought for sure I was going to see evidence of touch screen machines being used to steal elections. I recommend you edit your diary to make it clear you are talking about evidence of malfunctioning machines.

    Showing up everyday, 'doing my job.' Also, Rudy Giuliani sux

    by taylormattd on Sun Aug 12, 2007 at 10:38:16 PM PDT

  •  thanks, markthshark (3+ / 0-)

    ES&S machines are used in SC -- i will be watching.

  •  Shocking, Just Shocking! (6+ / 0-)

    Not that the workers are paid a pittance for their work. That's sad, but so very common. Not that the "QC" is looking for loose screws. That's all too typical of manufacturing on the cheap.

    What's shocking and TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE is that machines for our elections are being manufactured outside the country.

    Where are their heads? What's next, getting the Chinese Communists to make our voting machines?

    Uh, they haven't been doing that, right? I hope they haven't done that. Re-assure me.

  •  I was expecting (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    InsultComicDog, BentLiberal

    more meat on those bones. I don't see much that is conclusive or even new.

  •  This isn't BIG (3+ / 0-)

    It's something, though.

    If the machines are so poorly manufactured and tested, they shouldn't be used.

    Just because you can't connect the dots to election thefts that already may have occurred, doesn't mean that the machines aren't subject to fraud as well as lots of other problems. And that in itself is a significant story to get out.

    "Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert

    by InsultComicDog on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 12:00:04 AM PDT

    •  It's BIG if the process from contract-to-... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      procurement-to-negligent inspection-to-actual operation turns out to be fraudulent. It smacks of BushCo cronyism at its least, and deliberate wrongdoing at its utmost.

      It's a start and it should prompt more investigations.

      It's credible and it's evidence. It just needs to be fleshed out in a hearing. How conclusive it turns out to be will come out then.

      But, I do know one thing; the freakin' "incompetence" mantra just doesn't cut it anymore.

      •  It doesn't cut it with you or me (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        but unless you can connect the dots with solid evidence to a deliberate attempt to manipulate elections, it's not going to be that big a story.

        If we could get Congressional hearings on this, it could become something big, though.

        "Reality has a well-known liberal bias." --Stephen Colbert

        by InsultComicDog on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 08:45:11 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  you already know what the reichwing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Dave925, markthshark

    will say...

    "but it's dan rather..."

    I'm not going anywhere. I'm standing up, which is how one speaks in opposition in a civilized world. - Ainsley Hayes

    by jillian on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 01:00:48 AM PDT

  •  This is big, but it's going nowhere. (0+ / 0-)

    The MSM will ignore it for the most part....except when it is repeating the RW opinion-media attacks on Dan Rather's credibility.

    -5.75 -4.72 3.14159 2.71828

    by xynz on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 03:30:15 AM PDT

  •  Shoddy "workmanship" (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and slave-labor aside, I'm curious if there's evidence that the machines were at all rigged in the 'Pugs favor.

    This ain't no party. This ain't no disco. This ain't no foolin' around!

    by Snud on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 04:34:50 AM PDT

    •  not so much (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Snud, markthshark, pfiore8

      In states that used touchscreens statewide, it's hard to say much, because if someone wants to believe that every Xth vote statewide was flipped, who is to say them nay? But in states with a mix of technologies, we can see whether the touchscreen results were in line. As far as I can tell, they generally were.

      In contrast, FL-13 in 2006 of course is a spectacular example of touchscreen results being out of line. (The undervote rates in New Mexico '04 were similarly spectacular, but those were on pushbutton DREs, not touchscreens.)

      There's a study that purported to point to DRE miscount in the ('04) WA governor's race in Snohomish County, but it's kind of a mess.

      •  hudson valley? (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        as in ny hudson valley?

        i wondered if there were any breakouts from here... i'm near p-town

        looking for dems looking for people like, wanting to gear up and begin involvement for campaigning & volunteering where needed

        i'm at prfiore9 at hotmail dot com if you have some good connections

        nice to meet you... pf8

        "Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop" Gus McCrae

        by pfiore8 on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 08:35:22 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  In CA the SOS decertified (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      the diebold (and other) touch screens because they could be compromised in at least 4 different ways.  One person could spread a viral change in the source code (which answers the question of how it doesn't have to be a BIG conspiracy, just a conspiracy.)  All tht is needed is access to ONE of the machines.

  •  I wonder if diebold is laughing...I can (0+ / 0-)

    see their marketing angle now:

    "Choose Diebold voting machines - the only ones reliable enough not to be discredited by the MSM."

    I guess Diebold has more influence than ES&S.


    If education is a product of environment, why is opportunity the product of genetics?

    by Johnathan Ivan on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 05:48:18 AM PDT

  •  Sweatshops even! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    When things are rotten they are rotten to the core.

    Thanks for the diary - I feel another round of letters coming on!

    commute by bike - you will love it!

    by Bikemom on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 06:10:39 AM PDT

    •  Yep, I noticed that too. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      markthshark, Bikemom

      Another fine corporate citizen I read about this weekend is Gap, who employs workers and pays $1.00 a day (just so you Gap customers know), which is the minimum wage in Indonesia, about half of what it actually takes to live.

      We must be free not because we claim freedom, but because we practice it. -- William Faulkner --

      by Silverbird on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 06:31:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Since the question of trustworthy machines (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    has gone of for eight years, I feel no one wants it fixed.  Both political parties have agreed we just have too much democracy to function as an empire, so they are ending democracy.

    Our elections from now on will only be ritual elections, with neither candidate we have the "choice" of intended to represent us citizens.

    As for what the future holds, I was talking to a friend of mine in the military.  I said that the citizens of this country do not even know yet that the country we were born into, and thought we were, is over.  Democracy is over and we have had all of it we are going to get.  The citizens will not know that until martial law is declared, and then it will be too late.  My friend is career military and agreed with that assessment.

    What we have to battle now is whether or not citizens or the MI Complex and corporations control the levers of government and power.  So far, the corporations have bought off/out government.

    We must be free not because we claim freedom, but because we practice it. -- William Faulkner --

    by Silverbird on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 06:20:32 AM PDT

  •  Just watched the Clip (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigBite, markthshark

    The video clip was quite informative and confirms why so many people have been highly suspicious about these machines. Thank you for the diary.  I intend to watch the show in its entirety on Tuesday.

    If you're Republican, you're either corrupt or misled.

    by rlharry on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 06:45:16 AM PDT

  •  Thanks Mark! (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    BigBite, markthshark

    My Dad works elections in Manatee County which he says are well run. He said something has been up in Sarasota County since 2000, but we all knew that!

    There was an editorial in the S. Herald not to long ago asking Jennings to back off, she was being a sore loser. Do you remember the editorial? Maybe that author needs to see this show!

  •  A hearty round of applause for Mark Cuban! (3+ / 0-)

    He had the foresight to create HD and hire Rather. I have a feeling a lot more of these type of shows will be aired!

    •  you mean this guy? (2+ / 0-)

      Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

      LOL, just kidding.  I love Cuban!  Saw that pic of him a while ago and had to keep it.  Best interview I saw of him was on Leno when he tore Trump a new one!  The guy actually has very wacky yet intelligent business ideas so HD Net + Rather likely fits into that category.

      rubberstamp republican or capitulating democrat? Shotgun or bottle of sleeping pills? Decisions decisions.

      by pullbackthecurtain on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 08:47:31 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yes, THAT guy! I think he is brilliant, (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        passionate, way ahead of his time and enjoys life with gusto. Of course he will probably die of an aneurysm at a Mav's game, but he can use that time until the rest of us catch up with him.

        •  my favorite was (1+ / 0-)

          the media company he started to investigate and report on the dirt big companies are trying to hide.  He does it to make a profit, not to keep the companies honest.  He sells stock on margin, then released the much and buys back at a lower price to make a profit.  LOL Brilliant!

          People say that's terrible but I say anything that forces companies to be more ethical is a good thing.  Kudos to Cuban for turning it into a profit scheme.

          Reminds me of Spike Lee's "Inside Man":

          I'm no martyr.  I did it for the money.  But money doesn't matter when you can't face yourself in the mirror.  Trust is the ultimate currency.  I stole from a man who traded it all away for a few dollars...

          Excellent movie BTW!  If you haven't seen it I highly recommend.  If you've seen it I also recommend watching again with the audio commentary by Spike Lee.  His commentary is awesome!  One movie of his with his audio commentary made me an instant Spike Lee fan.

          rubberstamp republican or capitulating democrat? Shotgun or bottle of sleeping pills? Decisions decisions.

          by pullbackthecurtain on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 11:45:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  That movie is on its way via Netflix, (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            markthshark, pullbackthecurtain

            what a coincidence! I just sent back The Departed today, and next up is Inside Man. I've been a Spike Lee fan since "Do the Right Thing" but I didn't know he was the director of Inside Man.

            Have you seen Lee's "When the Levee's Broke"? It is coming up on my Netflix list in the next few weeks.  

            •  no but you've just (0+ / 0-)

              given me one for my "must see list" if it's about Katrina.  Funny how I haven't heard of it before.  Stupid MSM!

              Inside Man was actually my first Spike Lee movie I've seen.  Considering my lack of education with respect to Malcolm X I really want to see that one next.  Something tells me my limited impressions of Malcolm X have been shaped largely by public bias and misinformation and I'm looking forward to learning what will no doubt be a very accurate story of his life and work.  

              Unfortunate that never in my schooling was I taught anything about Malcolm X.  Probably a reflection of the extra-white area I grew up in.  That would also explain why MLK was not taught to an appropriate degree either.  I suppose there were college courses available at the time but it should have been covered better in High School.  I also regret that I wasn't cultured more back in college or else I would have actually sought out a class that would cover MX and MLK in more detail.  Unfortunately only hindsight is 20/20.  My mind may also not have been as open enough to appreciate such a course so I guess the underlying problem is the areas people are raised in and what they are exposed to at a young age.

              rubberstamp republican or capitulating democrat? Shotgun or bottle of sleeping pills? Decisions decisions.

              by pullbackthecurtain on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 02:04:32 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Malcolm X is an amazing movie (0+ / 0-)

                You will always look at Denzel and see him as the character he played in "X". IMHO, Denzel should've gotten the Academy Award for Malcolm X and not for Training Day. Don't get me wrong, he was great in Training Day but he was absolutely amazing in X.

                Two other great movies to add to your list "The Last King of Scotland" - Forest Whitaker is unforgetable and so is Jamie Foxx in "Ray".

                •  big Forest Whitaker fan (0+ / 0-)

                  but Jamie Foxx left a bad taste in my mouth when he threw his tantrum at Harrah's casino pre-K.  Apparently he got drunk and belligerent and when security tried to escort him out he got physical and kept yelling "you can't do this to me! Don't you know who I am?"

                  Guess I shouldn't let that affect any appreciation for his talent in Ray though.  Two separate things completely.  Just hard to forget about that, especially when I have such scorn for hollywood types talking like they are kings among the serfs when they are in public.

                  I'll add both to the list. :)  I appreciate your recommendations!  Thanks!

                  rubberstamp republican or capitulating democrat? Shotgun or bottle of sleeping pills? Decisions decisions.

                  by pullbackthecurtain on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 06:55:38 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Blame the dems ... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    Fair elections is the bedrock of any democracy.

    I can't understand why dems don't make a big issue out of this. Afterall it could be depriving them election victories. I've hardly heard a dem rep talk about it. Has it come up in any presidential debate ?

    Policing a civil war is not "Progress". End the Occupation Now.
    Now Reading : Imperial Life in the Emerald City by Rajiv.

    by nataraj on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 07:23:21 AM PDT

  •  yes but favor the GOP so lopsidely? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    I think this is an informative special.  Clearly there are serious "quality" problems with the machines.  but far more disturbing is how the machines so lopsidely favor the GOP.  This clearly indicates and exploitation of the code through a centralized database.  With such a low percentage of voter's turning out in so many precincts it seems to be easy to massage vote totals using the non-voter's to blur the totals and make a loser look like a winner.

  •  I'm wondering if this may be part of the (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    reason for Roves leaving. it comes just on the heels of the Iowa primary-with machine malfunctions and romney winning-but in a poor showing.

    could this have been the final straw. maybe they knew these machines would eventually be looked at-maybe that's why Rove is skedaddling out of town.

    •  Rove is preparing the GOPpers for 2008 (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      glitterscale, armadillo, markthshark

      He already had his hit list of Congressional Dems that he feels are vulnerable. Rove is forever the political animal. We have not heard the last of Rove. Quite the contrary now he can operate more freely without his effort being reflective of or from the WH.

      -4.00 -5.44 "A man who chooses not to read, is just as ignorant as the man who cannot read" Mark Twain

      by TexDem on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 08:56:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Yep. (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        TexDem, markthshark

        I think you are right.

        Cali. wanting to divide electoral votes-Dems in trouble in Texas.
        They know these states are key-elections are Roves forte anyhow-not day-to-day operations in WH.

        This just coming after Mitts low showing in Iowa, a weekend with pappa Bush, who along with Jeb has thrown his weight behind Mitt.
        Rove goes to Texas now.

        don't think so.

  •  loose screws (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khloemi, markthshark

    quality control for the machines consists of ‘shaking the machine to check for loose screws’

    better we should apply this excellent test to the candidates

  •  But Dan Rather was exposed as a liar and quit CBS (0+ / 0-)

    according to the Rethug bible. So obviously he is wrong here, etc, etc,....

    Well? Shall we go? Yes, let's go.

    by whenwego on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 09:01:40 AM PDT

  •  LIke bribery.... (0+ / 0-)

    A non-profit voters' group said that the manufacturers of computerized voting systems invite election boards on lavish shipboard parties, like on the and dine......dazzle.........

    I find it very unseemly.

  •  Secure Voting System (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    khloemi, hazzcon

    Done properly, the combination of electronic voting machines and paper receipt tape can be more secure than either electronic or paper alone.

    I have previously described a system of my own design that is very secure and has safeguards on every step of the vote casting and tallying process.   This is at the conceptual design stage, not implementation stage.

    This system includes multiple automatic and immediate "recounts" at every polling place, since multiple independant parties tabulate the votes without introducing delay or much additional cost.   Results of multiple independent counts are availible shortly after polls close.

    The electronic voting/ballot printing machine takes care of loose chads, unreadable or ambiguous marks, ballot alignment issues, indelibility of marks, handicapped accessibility, multiple language support, etc.    Every individual race on the ballot would require exactly one mark (if using the crude first past the post voting system normally used in the US), next to a candidates name or the no-vote position.   Ballots can not be tampered with by erasing or adding marks.   Candidate names will be printed in OCR font next to mark sense boxes and checked to prevent tampering with count by changing candidate order.  Every part of the printed receipt will be simultaneously human and machine readable so there can be no discrepancies between what is read by the human and by the machines.

    The voting machine would print each completed ballot onto a paper roll, with the current vote exposed through a window for voter verification and scan the ballot as it is printed to check print quality.

    Each paper roll would be certified by election monitors with a signature, thumbprint, and possibly an encrypted RFID chip label to prevent substitution.   This is easier with
    with continous roll than individual ballots.

    When each roll is removed from the voting machine, it is placed in a special scanner assembly where the paper is fed past multiple independent optical scanner heads.   Each election monitor (including ones from each party plus some independent watchdogs), uses a separate scanner head connected to their own laptop computer.   They could use
    the open source reference implementation of the software or develop their own.   A scan of each roll can be distributed via bittorrent to allow third parties to check via the internet as well.   Each laptop used should have a fresh OS and software install with all network services disabled except those used to transmit the results to protect against worms, viruses, etc.   Booting directly off of a stripped down DVD-ROM or USB Flash drive linux/FreeBSD/NetBSD/OpenBSD distribution with election software added is a practical way to do this.   Each party and watchdog organization can distribute its own validated DVD-ROM to its poll workers.

    Each vote will have a unique (but not sequential) serial number.   Certain precautions will prevent identifying which serial number belongs to which voter.    The system will not merely tally total numbers of votes for each candidate but instead will produce a list of each unique serial number cast for that candidate.    This allows checking that each ballot was tabulated correctly on a nationwide scale.

    Voters will be allowed to take home a printed receipt BUT not for their individual vote.    Take home receipts are very useful for verifying proper tabulation but they also permit vote buying and coercion.    Therefore, each voter's receipt will be placed in a lottery drum and the voter will get a random receipt for a voter that voted in the same precinct at roughly the same time.    Assume that 50% of the voters get a receipt for someone who voted against their interests and selfishly does not check for errors.   The other 50% can still be checked by voters themselves via the internet or by tossing the receipt into a bin belong to the watchdog organization of their choice.   A relatively small number of ballots being verified provides a statistically valid check of the process.

    Various security features in the marking process are discussed in my other comments.

    Since each vote is tallied by multiple independent parties with their own choice of hardware and software it is not possible to tamper with the tallying process, hardware, or software, and escape detection.

    There are a few minor inconveniences to the voter with this system.   Voters will discouraged from voting without waiting for other voters when the polling place is not busy in order to protect the privacy of each vote and to allow random mixing of the take home receipts in the lottery drum.
    Additionally, it would be recommended that voters view a five minute video with voting instructions including how to use security features.
     - Voter watches video
     - Voter is verified against rolls and gets chit
     - voter goes to voting machine and presents chit
     - voter votes for each candidate/issue
     - voter verifies vote on screen
     - vote prints, visible in window
     - receipt prints
     - voter checks both printed copies and selects accept/reject
     - accept record is printed
     - voter verifies that accept/reject printed correctly
     - voter leaves booth and puts receipt in lottery bin, draws new receipt
     - voter places receipt in bin of watchdog organization
       or takes it home for online verification
    The machine will guide the voter through these steps.  However, the educational video is a safeguard against
    a tampered machine giving incorrect instructions to selected voters.

    Because voter will be required to verify the vote twice after it is cast, once on screen and once on paper, touch screen calibration problems should not result in miscast votes.   After the vote is verified, the printer will print an ACCEPT VOTE or REJECT VOTE which will replace the vote in the paper tape viewing window.   Rejects must be accounted for.

    This system guarantees that votes will be counted as cast.
    This system does not cover:
     - irredeemable flaws in the first past the post voting system which needs to replaced (only works for two parties)
       with something like approval or condorcet voting.
     - Tampering with the voter rolls such as caging
     - Preventing people from voting by, for example, installing too few voting stations in minority districts.
     - Disinformation campaigns that trick voters into voting
       against their own interests.
     - Flaws in the electoral college system that do not accurately represent the popular vote.   Including attempts to introduce new flaws by eliminating winner takes all selectively in democratic strongholds like california but not in republican strongholds like texas as described in
    another diary

    An off the shelf barcode or RFID scanner can be used to
    read voting passes issued when each voter is checked against voter rolls.   Voter chits have unique serial number and are randomly picked from a lottery drum by poll workers (to prevent voter from taking more than one chit) so a particular serial number is not tied to a particular voter.   Chits must be accounted for and the number of chits used must match number of voters and number of tallied results.

    Voting tapes and receipt tapes will be printed on special secure paper similar to lottery tickets.

    Custom software and hardware
     - Voting machine - can be off the shelf touchscreen
       computers such as One Laptop per child (open design) or Pepper Pad combined with a secure enclosure that prevents access to ports and cables.
     - Printer with integrated scanner, viewing window, and
       take up reel.   Can modify a thermal transfer barcode
       printer design.  Thermal transfer provides high contrast
       for scanning and long shelf life of stored ballots.
     - Roll feeder for optical scanner heads
     - Optical scanner heads, very similar to an old fashioned
       hand scanner.
     - Voting machine software open source reference implementation
     - polling place tabulation software open source reference implementation
     - central tabulation software open source reference implementation
     - cryptographic key management software open source reference implementation

    Estimated hardware costs:
     - Voting machine computer $200-$1000
     - Voting machine printer with window & scanner $1000
     - receipt printer  $500 (off the shelf)
     - chit reader $100
     - Secure enclosure $200
     - roll feeder $500 (one per polling station, plus spare)
     - optical scanner head $100 (one per polling station per party counting)

    Compare these costs to costs of about $3000 per station for existing electronic voting machines.

    Existing voting machines with USB ports may be possible to retrofit.

    Some of these security features could be added to a plain paper ballot system, as well.

    You can find some of my old comments here

    -6.25, -6.36 Worst. President. Dictator. Ever.

    by whitis on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 09:33:37 AM PDT

  •  Not MSM so no one will notice (0+ / 0-)

    This story needs to be everywhere. Already Republicans are scheming how to steal the 2008 vote and they must be stopped.

    Why do you think Rove is leaving the White House. He can't work on the Republican campaigns from there.

    Edwards-Richardson 2008

    by TekBoss on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 09:53:32 AM PDT

    •  Worse than "not MSM" (0+ / 0-)

      It's Dan Rather.  We'd have a better chance of getting it noticed if it were produced by kossack "AJSinTX624" or whatever.  Rather's radioactive to the MSM right now.

      Undecided, due to abundance of good choices. Interestingly, I've never heard a Republican say that.

      by cardinal on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 10:31:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Dan Rather reports (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    HudsonValleyMark, markthshark

    Is an EXCELLENT show that I have been recording for the past 6 months. Last night I watched the replay from last week - all on the state of the news today. It was Dan, Ted Koppel and two college profressors. Really well done. For me it showed that things a lot more complicated than JUST forcing news divisions to be profitable. So many more variables that are influencing the state of 'professional' journalism. I do know that Dan is trying very hard to provide the old fashioned investigative news program on HD Net and I think he is succeeding.

    Now I can't wait to watch this week's show!

  •  Anyone notice ES&S's address in the opening shot? (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    John Galt Boulevard... hmmmmm.... how politically loaded is that?

    my conspiracy hat is on too tight!

  •  No, this isn't a smoking gun... (0+ / 0-)

    This is about lousy machines manufactured in lousy conditions, but that doesn't mean that the lousy machines caused elections to swing.

    Maybe I'm missing the point.  Wouldn't be the first time.


    I'm mad as hell and I'm...  I'm just going to read the new Harry Potter book and paint my basement.

    Dana Curtis Kincaid Ad Astra per Aspera! The enemy is not man, the enemy is stupidity.

    by angrytoyrobot on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 12:24:30 PM PDT

  •  maybe that is why Rove Resigned (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    He is going to get caught up big time in the voter machine fraud.

    Maybe someone is signing????

    Turn Virginia Blue - 2007 21/51

    by totallynext on Mon Aug 13, 2007 at 01:46:29 PM PDT

  •  Incredible! (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    It will be sweet if Dan Rather's reporting brings down the House of BushCo!

  •  Larry Kissell lost by 329 votes w/touchscreens (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    In North Carolina Larry Kissell lost the closest race in the nation and guess what, yes there were touch screens in the most Democratic area: CHARLOTTE!

    We have to stop this now before we lose a presidential due to these machines.

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