Daily Kos

'No snitching' does no one any good in New Orleans

Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:01:54 PM PDT

Original at Booman Tribune.

Yesterday, January 11, between three and five thousand residents converged on New Orleans' City Hall, fed up over what they perceived as Mayor Nagin's, NOPD Superintendent Riley's and Orleans Parish DA Jordan's laissez-faire leadership regarding the burgeoning, almost unstoppable murder rate that claimed the lives of nine people, including Hot 8 Brass Band snare drummer Dinerral Shavers and filmmaker and mother Helen Hill who were murdered in front of their own families.

However, NOPD police shouldn't see this rally as support for some of their most egregious actions both before and after Katrina.  And while many blacks were among the protesters, the ones that truly needed to hear the revulsion and anger of their neighbors weren't there.  

No, not the murderers.  Of course, they don't give a shit.

It's the witnesses who refuse testify--or snitch--against them.

The New Orleans Police Department has always had a reputation for being as corrupt and as brutal as the criminals they're supposed to curb.  Many officers have been involved with the Mob, with the drug trade, and with their own petty vendettas.  Add to it their seeming penchant for abusing, killing and sometimes illegally jailing black and other minority males, and there are reasons for continuing distrust and hatred.

This reputation for abuses and murders, of course, is why minority communities continue to distrust the police.  And it's no different in New Orleans, where, as Adam Nossiter wrote this week in the New York Times:

The police, feared and hated by the city's poor, get no cooperation from them in solving crimes. "Stop that snitchin!" is the inscription on the T-shirt of a man waiting for a bus on Canal Street. In killing after killing, police officials have begged for witnesses to step up, to no avail.

The result is an unwitting carrying out of the classic Maoist strategy of guerilla insurgency: criminals swim like fish in the surrounding sea, protected by a population that finds no reason to give them up, and is often afraid to.

The man at the bus stop wearing the Stop Snitching teeshirt is a sympathizer in a much larger movement that stretches from New York, to Baltimore, to Boston, to Pittsburgh, to Philadelphia, to Los Angeles, to Atlanta and to New Orleans.  I used to see those teeshirts being hawked daily on 125th Street in Harlem, and being worn proudly--even defiantly--by young men and women alike. Websites have even sprung up to 'rat out' suspected informers, or snitches.

And for $89.99, you can get a lifetime membership at WhosaRat.com, a Web site devoted to exposing the identities of police informants and witnesses.

Many of these Stop Snitching sympathizers are in the hip-hop nation.  

 And Stop Snitching has a precedent.

The no-snitching message also has been delivered via rap songs and by the actions of celebrities; 50 witnesses to the murder of a bodyguard for rapper Busta Rhymes have refused to cooperate with police, including Rhymes himself. The murders of rappers Tupac Shakur, Notorious B.I.G., and Run DMC's Jam Master Jay have all gone unsolved for similar reasons.

Not only that, says Chicago Sun-Times columnist Mary Mitchell, who found a Latino teenager shot dead in an alley behind her home:

[..A] lot of young people have been seduced by the thug lifestyle. They are playing by a different set of rules.

When something terrible happens, everyone knows, but no one knows who did it.

Because of the silence, it's become an excuse to entertain conspiracy fantasies about the deaths of these hip-hop innovators.  It's also an excuse for witnesses or potential informants to episodes of violent crime to clam up, for fear of being murdered or maimed, and there have been multiple examples of retaliation against witnesses, their families and friends, even those perpetrated by members of the NOPD themselves in the bad old days before the Justice Department stepped in.  I would not doubt that Dinerral Shavers' killer is confident that he won't be prosecuted for lack of witnesses.  The police still have no suspects in Helen Hill's murder, although pressure certainly will be brought to bear for this vital young white woman's death (watch her and her husband Dr. Paul Gailiunas in happier days).  More importantly, there are still have no suspects in the other murders that were perpetrated on ordinary citizens who turned out to be not as well-known or loved as Shavers and Hill, but just as wonderful and just as valuable to a community that prides itself on diversity like New Orleans.  

Not just because there were no witnesses.

But because there were, and that they refused to talk.

And they need to talk, because this time, it's for the very survival of New Orleans

, a place that they claim to hold dear and to have loyalty for.

[..Y]oung people who support the "No Snitch" campaign are contributing to their own destruction.

Obviously, there are crooked cops who are abusing hardworking citizens in these neighborhoods.

Still, the majority of police officers are committed to protecting citizens.

But cops can't protect citizens who don't want to help themselves. That's why the "Stop Snitching" campaign has to stop.

The message is doing more than selling rap DVDs and T-shirts.

It is selling out big chunks of the black community.

A few more notes...

This turned out to be Dinerral Shavers' last Mardi Gras with the Hot 8 Brass Band, even as it was the first Mardi Gras after Katrina.  You can barely see him, wearing a white football shirt with 55 printed on it, dwarfed next to the bass drummer, Benny "Swamp Thing" Pete, behind the horns.  It is his snare drumming that you hear introducing the band's signature pieces.  

Listen to him play at an hour long session at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor early last year.  There are only four of the band present, but it seems as if they are all there.  Dinerral makes his drums speak for them all.

If you would like to give something in support of Dinerral's family, or to help defray his funeral expenses, go here, and remember to specify that your contribution go to Dinerral Shavers' Fund.

Rest in peace, Dinerral.  

And, guess what?  Your 80-piece marching band at Rabouin will step proudly out on schedule at Mardi Gras.

Fly away.

Tags: New Orleans, crime, Hurricane Katrina, NOPD, shooting, Dinerral Shavers, Helen Hill, Black Kos, police (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 29 comments

  •  I'm going to bed... (31+ / 0-)

    Stop by Booman Tribune...I've loaded some YouTube excerpts from what is now known as the Enough March.

    Cheers.

    An untypical Negro...since 1954.

    by blksista on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 10:58:35 PM PDT

  •  thank you (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blksista, trashablanca, luckydog, epppie

    excellent diary

  •  "no snitching" (7+ / 0-)

    is a perverse concept that is spreading across the country very quickly. IMO, it's origins began with the 'Blue Wall of Silence' which is ingrained in P.D.s everywhere.

    •  I'm under no assumption... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      nolalily, pHunbalanced, Prison4Bushco

      that the cops are a refuge, so to speak, from the storm.

      But the cops that have not succumbed have got to stand up for the people that they have to protect.

      And witnesses have to speak up.

      An untypical Negro...since 1954.

      by blksista on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 05:49:18 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yep (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Prison4Bushco

      It's the same phenomenon as the "wall of silence."  Which is also the same phenomenon as the Roman Catholic hierarchy's treatment of sexually abusive priests.  And that's the same thing as the attitude that made the brave soldiers who revealed the My Lai and Haditha atrocities about as welcome at a VFW post as Jane Fonda.  It's the "we take care of our own" mentality carried to an extreme extent.  It rears its ugly head whenever some group begins to perceive itself as separate from the larger society, whether through marginalization (as in "no snitch") or elitism (as in the Beltway pundits' refusal to talk about the clearly illegal activities of the Bush Misadministration).  You can even build whole institutions around this mentality; look at Hamas and Hezbollah.

      I do like conducting hearings in an actual hearing room -- John Conyers

      by ebohlman on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 09:07:53 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  47 year old white male here (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blksista, luckydog, OneCrankyDom, epppie

    I don't believe in snitching either, but that dissolves when it comes to taking a life.

    "Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." John Lennon

    by trashablanca on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:12:34 PM PDT

    •  street creds (9+ / 0-)

      back when I grew up demanded no snitching, having 2 sisters required no snitching either cause it meant someone might get beat. The thing is I never had to even thing about snitchin on a murder. That said, still today having grown up pretty much out running the streets, if I knew why and it was a revenge thing I would have to think twice. When your life depends on the kids you run with, or you think it does, survival and a sense of a twisted honor controls your thinking.
      I'm not saying it's right, I just understand it.

      blksista  ,Your diary is really great at making feel what some in Baghdad must be feeling. You are living in a Warzone where the rules change daily. You have the NO Cops/ Baghdad police seemingly feared , and distrusted. You have a government the isn't doing anything ala your city officials, and you black on black crime same as the Shia vs Shia.  Truly so many parallels that this really is another Bush Warfront ignored.

      -8.63 -7.28 We all have to be concerned about terrorism, but you will never end terrorism by terrorizing others.~Martin Luther King III

      by OneCrankyDom on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:29:21 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I can't say I agree at all... (10+ / 0-)

    ...the assumption here is that the justice system and law enforcement is going to help these people and these communities somehow.

    And in time after time after time, in Anacostia and West Baltimore and Newark, the actions of the justice system and law enforcement and our political leaders has put lies to that notion.  The police in those communities earn that hate, and the laws we demand to be passed and enforced continue to make fictional the idea that we actually intend to make things better.

    Change the premise of law and justice, and the Stop Snitching movement will die.  Stop using informants to target people the municipal government doesn't like and to bolster law enforcement statistics so ambitious politicians can pretend to be "tough on crime" and the Stop Snitching movement will die.

    Keep treating the urban poor as if they are mere pawns in a grand game indifferent to their humanity, and the movement will continue to grow and thrive.  You are attacking the end result of a terrible problem, and not its cause.  And I for one am not on board.

    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

    by Jay Elias on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:20:01 PM PDT

    •  Somewhere, though, it has to stop... (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      nolalily, pHunbalanced, Ahianne, Elise

      Informing on someone who is dealing drugs is one thing.

      Informing on someone who has just murdered an individual without cause, as with Shavers (who had previous run-ins with the law and had cleaned up his act) and with Hill is yet another.

      The 'stop snitching' movement will continue if law-abiding cops refuse to differentiate themselves from the murdering, racist cops; it will continue if people don't speak up and aren't ensured protection within their communities and within the law.  

      It becomes a vicious circle; a catch-22.

      People have to begin to stand up for their communities--cops AND citizenry--despite everything.

      I know that it seems that easy behind my 'cushy' living and my keyboard.  I know that it isn't.  But New Orleans and the rest of our cities are at stake.

      At the Enough rally, a couple of the speakers were talking about better days when the police chief was not the personal friend or political ally of the mayor; that he was hired from outside of the department, and that power was disseminated to neighborhood stations where, it was insisted upon, some officers live nearby and not outside of the areas that they patrol.  These people were saying that this particular strategy worked and that New Orleans should return to that strategy.

      How many more innocent people are going  to be maimed and killed because these idiots are allowed to run around?

      An untypical Negro...since 1954.

      by blksista on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 05:44:14 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Agree Completely (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        blksista
        It would be very nice if we had the luxury of time and resources and could do the sort of relationship building that takes enormous time and effort, but we don't.  Things are out of control and we have all got to get over whatever it is that causes the mistrust and start working together or this city is going to fall apart.  I don't think a lot of people really understand what is happening down here - or the history that came before.  NOPD has been a problem for a very long time.  It was starting to get better and then the storm came.  But the problem is now so large that reforming what is left of NOPD is not enough.  People have to come forward with information or these killers will never be caught.  And they will keep on killing.  

        Meet me in Cognito, baby

        by out grrl on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 06:27:21 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  I thought for my part... (0+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Elise

        ...I made it clear: untold numbers, and it will continue until we change the laws, not until these "idiots" change themselves.

        The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

        by Jay Elias on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 10:56:07 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  It's always a TWO-WAY STREET (0+ / 0-)

          ...so people will continue to be killed and murdered until the authorities make up their minds or change their strategies?  Or that it is politically or economically feasible to do it?  Or we vote them out of office for the next best promise?

          And then the youth will change?

          WHEN?

          I'm all for regime change from Bush on down to Nagin.

          But, what is wrong with NOW?  What is wrong with seizing the moment and dialoguing with all cross-sections of the city about what they could do?

          Whatever happened to the saying:

          If the People Lead, the Leaders will Follow.

          Don't you want to put it to use?  Or is this a mere platitude?

          An untypical Negro...since 1954.

          by blksista on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 12:10:47 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I am putting it to use... (0+ / 0-)

            ...but the manner that the people can lead which will result in real change is not to cooperate with our current laws and institutions, which again I thought I made clear.  The way for people to lead is to demand and bring about the changes that will create law enforcement and criminal justice that is worthy of the name.

            How many murderers have we put away?  How many drug dealers?  How many users and gang-bangers and the rest?  And where are the lives saved, the ghettos restored, the justice?  No where, of course.  If people reported and testified against those who performed the crimes against persons who list here, what would happen except a whole new list of victims that could be posted a day or week or month later?

            If the people lead, the "leaders" will follow.  But you aren't offering, to my eyes, any leadership at all.  The road you are talking about leads to exactly where we are today, and worse yet, it places the onus on the people most victimized by the system that it will no effect an iota.  Yes, the Stop Snitching movement lets bad people get away with bad things, and it leaves these people unavenged.  But it leads us to some sort of change.

            They are leading, blksista, by whatever means they can.  And I for one believe that their leadership, as ugly as it is, will bring us to a better tomorrow.

            The urge to save humanity is almost always a false face for the urge to rule it. ~ H.L. Mencken

            by Jay Elias on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 12:22:15 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Thinking about seeing (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            blksista

            if Benjamin Banneker (school in my neighborhood) might begin a special class for kids called "Snitches get Stitches" that addresses how kids can help protect themselves against thugs and peer pressure.

            White woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (Endorsed 6/07)

            by nolalily on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 02:27:31 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  What is to be done ? (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Elise, luckydog, epppie

    You bump immediately in a weird confluence of 1rst Amendment rights and intimidation. The government cannot ban the campaign on free speech grounds and if a community leader as a private person is really vocal about this issue, he/she becomes a target for gangs.

  •  When I was a young(er) punk... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    luckydog, epppie

    I used to say there was nothing worse than The Good American Citizen, but I was referring to the people who snitch on their neighbors for having expired tags on their cars or hiding from collection agents or smoking the pot. Violent crimes are a whole nother story. What a sad and really scary situation.

  •  I was listening to a rap record the other day, (0+ / 0-)

    and musically I loved it, but damn, some of the monstrously violent rhetoric is hard to believe.  

    The world dearly loves a cage.

    by epppie on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:45:54 PM PDT

  •  there's a 'no snitching' campaign in Baltimore (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    pHunbalanced, blksista, redcardphreek

    IIRC, they were distributing threatening dvds around the neighborhoods.
    One day last year, while waiting for the light rail downtown, I saw a t-shirt in a store window that said something to the effect of 'snitchers are bad and will be dealt with' (can't remember the exact quote).
    Thanks for the diary.

    "Never, never, NEVER give up!" --Winston Churchill

    by rioduran on Fri Jan 12, 2007 at 11:48:09 PM PDT

  •  The New Orleans DA (6+ / 0-)

    has a 10% conviction rate. Never mind the cases that don't go to trial. These people have a real reason to be afraid to testify. I don't agree with "no snitching" but I also understand the fear of not putting youself and your loved ones at risk. It is a hard situation here in New Orleans.

  •  I have to ask why the African American community (0+ / 0-)

    In N. orleans is so much prone to violence? its almost sureal!

    •  Poverty (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      blksista
      Poverty is part of the problem.  There were  never a lot of opportunities in NOLA for poor black kids.  Not a lot of opportunities for poor white kids, either.  There is not a lot of industry down here outside the service industry and those jobs don't pay much.  Another problem is the terrible school system.  And the conditions in the housing projects and poor neighborhoods.  Basically, life in NOLA was one big clusterf*ck for those kids.

      Meet me in Cognito, baby

      by out grrl on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 06:31:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Needs to be a distinctiuon (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blksista

    between a witness to a real crime, and the pet snitch, who'll set up crimes so as to roll on those they 'conspired' with.

    Running against Herb "WIRETAP" Kohl in 2012. $1/year. Cash preferred.
    Masel4Senate 1214 E. Mifflin, Madison, WI 53703

    by ben masel on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 06:19:11 AM PDT

  •  Check out this t-shirt. (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blksista

    http://dirtycoast.com/...

    I think it says it all.

  •  blk sista (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    blksista, doctorj2u

    Thanks so much for this diary.  You've brought up a crucial issue that the whites in our community tend to dismiss.

    Now, if we could get our systems (justice, school, economic) together, we'd begin to get our city back.

    The video on the Hot 8 in France (which was really the Hot 8 at Mardi Gras), was absolutely fantastic.  It made me tear up, as I always do at Mardi Gras, just watching the people and feeling joyous.

    Great Diary!

    White woman over 50 for OBAMA!! (Endorsed 6/07)

    by nolalily on Sat Jan 13, 2007 at 09:49:04 AM PDT

Permalink | 29 comments