Daily Kos

Ford's "Dominionist" Prayer - a firsthand account

Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 06:28:44 PM PDT

SusanG's diary last night singing Gerald Ford's praises as having allegedly kept his faith and his political acts separate finally crossed some threshold that pushed my partner, Mike Doughney and I, into commenting. We wrote for the first time about an event we were present for where Ford threw the full weight of his status as Former President behind one of many key groups in the Biblical American, or what some might term the "dominionist", youth movement; by personally appearing at Teen Mania's "Stand Up" event in Michigan, back in 2000.

This diary, then, are some of the details of that, and unlike almost most every other piece of writing I've seen since Ford's death, this is based on a first hand experience, it reflects an event that happened almost 7 years ago, not during the 1970's.

This has been exceptionally difficult for me to write out, the gravity of what we saw and how to bring information forward; ourselves, holding to some value of civility even as we have seen incredibly uncivil things. But ultimately, I think it's critically important to look at Ford's 'legacy' in light of his actual actions. So at this point, I'm just going try to write 'what I know', while incorporating some quotes from my partner, Mike.

  • INTRODUCTION

By way of introduction, I'll use a little of what Mike wrote last night:

The organization that created the event, Teen Mania Ministries, is the same one now running the "Battle Cry" campaign, which kicked off its series of stadium gatherings last spring with a provocative display at San Francisco City Hall that they framed as a response to the gay marriages that had been performed there. It seeks to recruit young people as so-called "culture warriors" creating friction and divisiveness around the usual topics over which they obsess, all with the alleged goal of recruiting teenagers to church youth groups.

This is what Ford was doing in his twilight years: a full participant in being put forward as an example of "Godly leadership" at an event like this, eventually being used to further these cultural and political conflicts, and the agendas of dominionist leaders, now and in the future. This "Battle Cry Campaign" of Teen Mania has evolved to have an explicit political component, and it's tied in with all of the usual suspects (Falwell, Robertson, Colson, Haggard, Santorum and Brownback just to name a few). Ford's presence there was used to legitimize Ron Luce and Teen Mania; Ford was part of the process by which the organization has grown and launched its latest campaign.

  • HUMAN, WITH HUMAN FAILINGS

Unlike so many of the Ford diaries that paint the man as pure evil or pure saint, this is a diary about Ford as entirely human, complete with human failings. Unlike so many that assume Ford left Washington for the greener (or whiter) pastures of Vail, and the desert in California, and had no real recent history thereafter other than being man about town, perhaps mentions here and there of some rounds of golf, raising money for the completion of the national cathedral, and his heart treatments last August, no, this diary focuses upon Ford's actions in the year 2000.  It's a first hand account, a story of how a man who politically claimed to be pro-choice, queer friendly, pro-stem cell research etc ended up becoming the embodiment of validation at an event with thousands of teenagers, for much of what he personally assumedly would have disagreed with; a personified validation for an anti-abortion and anti-Queer youth movement that we will likely be feeling the effects of on into the future.

It's a story of how what may have been one man's personal religious quest can result in a very public 'fatal' misstep that ultimately, for me at least, outweighs any previous stance the man may have taken.

Many writers may focus upon Ford's openness to Queer participation in society, his support for stem cell research, his pro-choice position, others focus upon his role in the rise of Rumsfeld and Chenney, his veto of the FOIA, the mess that was the ending of America's Vietnam war, his dogged attempts to impeach Stevenson, and most importantly Ford's pardon of Nixon - thus ensuring there would never be any consequences, a precedent that has echoed down through the years. No, Ford the man himself, like so many christians, is nothing if not a bundle of contradictions.

But it is his christianity that provides a consistant thread through both his time and office and afterwards. And so it is Hunter S. Thompson's words about Ford, oft repeated over the last few days, that I find a necessary backdrop to begin my own personal story about Ford in the year 2000:

"Ford, who believes strongly in Heaven and Hell, has told more than one of his celebrity golf partners that I know I will go to hell, because I pardoned Richard Nixon."

Ford was a man deeply concerned about the predisposition of his own soul (also see Time magazine's piece on Ford's participation in bible studies), and when push came to shove that to my mind at least became the man's greatest weakness, because in the end, concern about the state of his soul in relation to his god may have been precisely the motivation that led Ford to stand on a stage in the Pontiac Silverdome in Michigan in front of a crowd of tens of thousands of teens and act as validation for so much of what he himself claims to had disagreed with politically in his life.

  • RESEARCH, AND "DAY ONE"

In April of 2000, my partner, Mike Doughney and I were in Michigan again. We were there, as a part of our ongoing 'work' as what might be termed 'oppositional researchers'.

We had been focusing in on what we've come to term the Biblical America movement (our definition) "the social movement that seeks to use their interpretation of the Bible as the sole basis of all governance and social interaction") was teaching its kids. (The BA movement is actually one of three strands in what we're labeling a 'braided cord'- BA, neo-cons, and anti-individualist/pro-'coporate'ism- i.e. groups over individuals.) By the time we reached Pontiac, we had already spent several years looking at youth events and Teen Mania events in particular.

A year earlier, in 1999, we had also come to the Silverdome for what many have called the largest christian teen gathering in history, Teen Mania Ministry's "Day One", with an estimated 70,000 people.  Day One was a turning point, including its own christian pre-emptive war language years before Iraq war. Day One's pre-emptive war was called for by Teen Mania head, Ron Luce- "We must either fight or become slaves". (See our Acquire the evidence page about that speech to get the flavour of it). It's a strong rejection of peaceful chrisitianity and peaceful christians themselves, in favour of warlike christianity.)

  • PONTIAC: STAND UP 2000 FINALE; PAT ROBERTSON, & FORD

So, back to the year 2000, we're once again at the Pontiac Silverdome, for a second Teen Mania 'national event,' this time entitled "Stand Up" which will include many speakers over the course of a weekend. Sessions are held Friday evening, Saturday morning, and afternoon, with a finale held Saturday evening. Over the course of those many hours, language and concepts are methodically redefined and there is a great deal of expectation setting. The finale of the Saturday night event will be Ford and Ron Luce. Pat Robertson was another, earlier featured speaker that final night. Robertson's speech is a whole 'nother topic, for another day.

While the previous year's "Day One" had been a mass spectacle of its own sort, the final evening, the emotional climax of Stand Up featuring Gerald Ford, was a spectacle we have not quite seen the like of before or since. When it came time for Ford to come out on stage the audience was at an emotional peak. They had spent many hours listening to speaker after speaker, interspersed with worship sessions, and for many, very little sleep. But this wasn't going to be the entrance of just any speaker; it was going to be a grandiose spectacle. Accompanied by a color guard and regal music, Ford was brought to the stage in an electric cart, and presented with an award created solely for the occasion.

  • BIBLICAL AMERICAN "OATH OF THE UNASHAMED" LED BY FORD

The heart of the Gerald Ford appearance was his leading the thousands of youth groups in what Teen Mania called "The Oath of the Unashamed" (video with full transcript, can be seen here.) It is a pledge that to some may appear relatively 'standard christian', but throughout the course of the weekend, much of the language contained within it had been redefined, such that by the time Ford led the kids in it, some were having a very specific experience, one translated through the experiences and language redefinitions of the last two days.

Yet even taken at face value without the specific Teen Mania-ized redefinition of language, the Oath that Ford read contains explicitly supremacist or 'dominionist' aspects, specifically the lines "I pledge my life recognizing I am no longer my own, belonging to God who has called me to lead the world." and "I make God's word the final authority directing my motives and actions."

"God... has called me to lead the world" and "God's word the final authority".

My partner, Mike has described these two lines far more articulately than I ever could:

Here are two lines that embody much of what Teen Mania teaches, and that have certainly come to the surface through their "Battle Cry" campaign. First is the notion of death to self, and its actual implementation: the radical personality change, central to all of Teen Mania's programs, that they put forward as absolutely necessary if one is to become a "follower of Christ." Second is the notion of their interpretation of "God's word" being the final authority, overriding secular law, and for that matter, all social convention; the basis of the so-called "culture war" that is now central to Teen Mania's latest campaign, with the slogan of their next round of stadium events, starting in March, now being "culture warriors unite."

Ford provided an imprimatur of legitimacy on Ron Luce and Teen Mania. He used his status as a former American President to both having 'lead by godly example' at the time and add that full weight of that to those two concepts, trying to ensure so called 'godly leadership' on into the future through another generation.

  • FOR FURTHER READING

For more, explore our critical web site:
Acquire the Evidence
: on Ron Luce, Teen Mania Ministries and the "BattleCry" campaign

and

"Battle Cry Campaign" at Wikipedia

and

Teen Mania's own "Battle Cry" site to see the campaign Teen Mania is currently spearheading.

A permanent copy of this piece can be found here on our barf.org site.

Tags: Gerald Ford, Teen Mania Ministries, Dominionism, Ron Luce, Battlecry, Pat Robertson (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 58 comments

  •  This piece (23+ / 0-)

    has been a long time coming.

    Thanks for bearing with my lack of skill in telling a very important story.

    barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

    by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 06:25:47 PM PDT

    •  you did just fine (4+ / 0-)

      I have a feeling I know where your moniker (stormcoming) comes from....the millennial movement and its fight with pluralism and multicultural/multicreed U.S. traditions.

      Can anyone tell me what's "centrist" about using the Constitution to wipe your ass? - ActivistGuy

      by billlaurelMD on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 06:59:15 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  thanks- you're close (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        greenearth

        My user name can be taken many ways, that is certainly one of them :)

        However, I'm afraid it's point of origin is nothing so gradiose. It was an homage to that 1984 classic film, "The Terminator". But yes, it absolutely holds both meansings both in terms of the relentless nature of the beast, and the vast uncertainty of future.

        It's from the last lines of the film-

        Sarah Connor: What did he just say?
        Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming in.
        Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

        barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

        by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:27:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Julius Streicher, publisher of (1+ / 0-)

          'Der Stürmer' was convicted at Nuremberg, and executed. I believe he was the only propagandist, rather than member of government, who was tried and executed, for crimes against humanity.  Der Stürmer incited anger and hatred as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, et. al. do in the U.S. today.

          This would seem to be a precedent, should a civil war along the lines of 'Left Behind: Eternal Forces' erupts here.

          Fantastic diary. Thnk you for telling us about how Gerald Ford was manipulated into giving his imprimatur to the spewers of hatred, on account of his doubts about his own afterlife. It really goes to show that Republicans only care about themselves and their own cohort.

  •  Strongly Recommended. (5+ / 0-)

    Excellent first hand account.  Thanks to you and Mike for doing this.
    Lot's of good information.

    I just put up a big ole limestone cross on my pigfarm for Jenna's wedding to a Karl Rove minion. Praise Jeebus, GWB

    by cosette on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 06:36:57 PM PDT

  •  Thanks. Good work! (4+ / 0-)

    I think it bears repeating often that two
    of Ford's legacies are Dick Cheney and
    Don Rumsfeld.
    Sure was ironic seeing Rumsfeld speaking today
    in a so-called christian church.

  •  On NPR I heard a portion of his son's (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    stormcoming, auditor

    eulogy, and it sounded like it came from a very rightwing script, weird to the bone.  Too bad, cuz his sons were so cute when GF was in the WH.

    "I cherished my hate like a badge of moral superiority." - Mark Rudd

    by Bob Love on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 06:55:04 PM PDT

    •  His son Steve spoke just before his appearance (7+ / 0-)

      and your impressions are correct; been awhile since I've reviewed the tape of the event, but his son was completely on board with the organization's agenda.

    •  What eulogy was this? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ticket punch

      None of his sons did a eulogy at the funeral service in Grand Rapids, or at the one at the Natinal Cathedral.  Two of his sons did scripture readings at the service in Grand Rapids, one of them from the 23rd Psalm and the other from Paul's Letter to the Romans, and the other son and his daughter did scripture readings during the service at the National Cathedral.  

      If you're referring to Steven's reading, the "very rightwing script, weird to the bone" was directly from the New Testament.

      "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

      by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 10:14:57 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  What exactly is all this outrage about? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    leevank

    "I pledge my life recognizing I am no longer my own, belonging to God who has called me to lead the world."
    "I make God's word the final authority directing my motives and actions."

    Every Holy Order I know of basically requires these 2 things of its initiates. You can call them "dominionists," but I call them "nuns" and "monks."

    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

    by ticket punch on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:14:58 PM PDT

    •  I dunno - I don't recall anyone telling me that (2+ / 0-)

      God had nominated me to actually "lead the world".  I remember being asked to be in service of God's will, but not in charge.

    •  The organization doesn't sound like my cup of tea (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ticket punch

      But the oath frankly doesn't seem all that remarkable to me.  Personally, I could take it and see the following as a mandate to bring about greater acceptance of all who had been rejected and were hurting, whether they were the poor, immigrants, gays, or anyone else:

      I pledge my service realizing I am chosen by God, not by men. I will give my life away to serve others.

      To this end, I will stand for the hurting, the hopeless, the unloved. I will say what others refuse to say. I will reach the world without losing sight of the neighborhood. I will walk upright, speak the truth, and live above reproach. I will not be ashamed to fall on my knees, to cry out to God, to shed tears for the dying, to [live] a life worthy of a leader, to stand up and lead my generation that all may know that Jesus Christ is alive.

      The organization may well be Dominionist, but there's nothing about that oath that is, and I don't see the fact that Ford led the recitation of it as indicating that he was in agreement with Dominionist theology, much less that he led a "Dominionist prayer."

      "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

      by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:51:52 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  see what I said above (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        moiv, greenearth

        "It is a pledge that to some may appear relatively 'standard christian', but throughout the course of the weekend, much of the language contained within it had been redefined, such that by the time Ford led the kids in it, some were having a very specific experience, one translated through the experiences and language redefinitions of the last two days."

        On paper, it may not look like much, but then, that's the point- to look innocuous to external observers- like yourself.

        In full context, after 3 previous sessions of having that language defined in relation to the movement, it means quite a different thing.

        barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

        by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 08:11:10 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Your description of the relentless pace of (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          greenearth

          the weekend, the mind-numbing repetition of propaganda, the sleep deprivation......reminds me of the 'no-touch' mind control methods of the CIA being used at Guantanamo (along with other 'advanced interogation methods' not applicable here). You catch my drift, I'm sure.

          •  No, I don't catch the "drift" at all. (0+ / 0-)

            Are we suggesting that Teen Mania Ministries practices torture?

            As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

            by ticket punch on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 08:43:02 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Enough already (1+ / 0-)

              What appears to have begun in the actual text in my diary above-

              They had spent many hours listening to speaker after speaker, interspersed with worship sessions, and for many, very little sleep

              gets blown up into this shit?

              I don't know who the hell this "We" you refer to is, but just for clarity, no jackass, Mike and I are not suggesting Teen Mania practices torture.

              Now that 'post in from mars' taken care of, can we please get back on topic here kids?

              Try reading what I actually wrote here for once would ya?

              I never even used the term "sleep deprivation", I never said it was top down- or in any way determined by the organization itself, etc.

              barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

              by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:14:08 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  i guess we need the background (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          ticket punch

          i have the same reaction as a lot of people here.  the organization sounds like bad news, but that oath is fairly unobjectionable.

          if there is language in there that has been redefined during the workshop, which is certainly possible in my experience, you'll have to walk us through it to see it.  typically the new terms stand out in a recitation like this, even without their new meaning, and i don't see that here.

          you'd have to show us.

          l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

          by zeke L on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:19:49 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  you're getting bogged down (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            moiv

            in the details of it.

            Its almost a 12 hour event- and despite having some tapes from Teen Mania, I'm not going to pull out piece by piece, quote after quote, where every phrase used in the final oath get redefined in the course of that. It's one hell of a project, and much as ultimately, sure I'd love to have it at my fingertips, and yes, it needs to be done, but I'm not sure it's by me, and it's certainly not going to happen now- over the course of a comment thread.

            Focus instead on the the single most glaring piece of the oath- "God... has called me to lead the world"

            Teen Mania mass stadium events/mass youth rallies (not workshops), are a leadership track for the youth movement. They are a funnel from the mass events, can lead on into programs like mission trips, on to Teen Mania's "Honor Academy" program that leads to a variety of places including Patrick Henry college in Virginia, and its interns up on Capital Hill.

            Ford's presence there was in his capacity as a former 'godly leader' passing the baton of sorts to a next generation of Biblical American youth (hoped for) leaders. "Called ... to lead the world".

            Ford's appearance has led to the legitimization of Teen Mania and its programs and Ron Luce. The aftermath of which is particularly ugly. Look to their current themeing, "culture warriors rise up", and the "legislative" portion of the battlecry campaign, they are but fruits of this. That is the context into what Ford did falls.

            Again, the Wikipedia article goes into a fair amount of detail about some of what they currently are.

            barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

            by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:43:29 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  you need the details to make the case (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              ticket punch

              one of the things that clearly distinguishes us from the wingnuts is that this community demands some kind of substantiation to claims posters make.  links and other references are typically sufficient.

              IMO you've provided enough info to convince me that teen mania is bad religion. (perhaps even diabolical!)  but you're not convincing us on the oath, without backing up your assertion that the language in it has been redefined.  i'm not asking you to do this right here in this thread, i'm just saying that part of your story remains effectively unproven, again IMO.

              the "god has called me to lead the world" statement is certainly not how i would express something like this, but i've heard worse from people who just haven't thought things out very clearly (which describes like 90% of the population, often).  it's certainly lacking in both christian humility and misses the servant model of leadership.  but it's a far cry from this to "go forth and smite the infidel with the sword and subjugate the unbelievers under your boots!"  although that does appear to be the message they're peddling through the whole culture warrior garbage.

              and if we can't find anything really off in that oath, what makes you think ford had any idea of what they were up to?  they could have just booked him as a guest and told him all you got to do is wheel in on a golfcart, say some words to the kids about god and leadership and boom, you're back at the hotel in like 20 minutes.

              l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

              by zeke L on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 10:17:43 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  You're asking for proof (0+ / 0-)

                This is not a typical diary here on dKos- unlike pointing people at an newsarticle, posting purely an opinion piece etc, this is original research.

                Similar to, but without any of the credentials and loftiness of investigative reporting. You're talking about a stadium event with Mike and I and approximately 40,000 to 50,000 thousand other people.

                What tape we have from that event produced by Teen Mania itself is by no means a complete chronicle of the 10-12 hour event.

                So no, unlike other diaries, on some of this, there are no links, and for some of it, there will be no video.

                That's the nature of it.

                Would I love to go back and pull quotes etc- sooner or later, well yes. But you're also talking about sitting through many hours for minutes worth of material.

                You're unconvinced? Fine. So be it.

                Again, you've focused down on the details, the oath itself, when the entire appearance is the real point of the diary.

                Ford spoke at the climax of an event on a stage that had just held Pat Robertson. You would think that most speakers, when asked to speak at an event would want to know at least the basics of who else is going to be speaking at the same event- it's how you avoid accidently ending up at a podium still warm from a member of the KKK. You try to have at least some awareness of who else is going to be there. For most people, even christian, if you're a pro-choice and pro-gay christian Pat Robertson should have been one hell of a tip off about what kind of event this was going to be. Is that not problematic enough?

                He stood there, giving the legitimacy of his presence, as a former president and the trappings thereof to an organization that is intent on building a new generation of leaders- leaders coming out of an organization that is explicitly anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc- the very things Ford personally claims to oppose.

                No, Teen Mania is not a "religion", "diobolical" or otherwise, it is a youth organization that is part of a broader christian social movment.

                Personally, I have no idea what Ford was thinking, how much he knew about the organization or didn't know. Whether he actually believed in what he was doing- i.e. was absolutely signed on/part of Ron Luce's specific cause, is completely beside the point. We'll never know- nor does it ultimately matter.

                Whether he was 'used as a symbol' or was actually fully cognizanant of exactly what it was he was doing and who he was doing with- while interesting, is not the point. The effect carried forward through those present for the event is the same whether Ford "believed" or "was used".

                barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

                by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 11:06:05 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  I'll settle for coherence. (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  zeke L

                  Unfortunately, this diary is a good example of a particular diary genre. The diarist comes on expecting unanimious assent and affirmation--and is first dismayed, then outraged, to find discussion going in a direction other than one intended.

                  A diary is a springboard for discussion, not necessarily a source of validation for the diarists.

                  At one point diarists had the option of disabling comments. Now, however, the only controls left are to edit the diary text or to delete the diary, comments and all.

                  As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

                  by ticket punch on Thu Jan 04, 2007 at 07:39:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  keep up the good work (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  ticket punch

                  look, i don't mean to discourage you - the best thing we have going in the blogosphere is when we get some good firsthand reporting instead of just clipping corporate media sources.  and i looked at your website, it looks like you guys are doing good work keeping on top of this group.

                  but when we get skeptical, it's not an attack on you personally, it's just that we like to operate on the facts as best we can ascertain them.  i was all set to recommend this diary based on being original reporting, but you simply didn't quite make the case you claimed.  if you had just stuck to the teen mania part, you would have been fine.  but for the rest, you ask us to take your word for it without back-up, which we tend not to do.  

                  l'audace! l'audace! toujours l'audace!

                  by zeke L on Thu Jan 04, 2007 at 01:05:14 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for the first-hand story (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    greenearth

    The effect on children of these events is troublesome.

  •  This sounds like E.S.T. (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    zeke L, stormcoming, YoyogiBear

    << "When it came time for Ford to come <br>out on stage the audience was at an
    emotional peak. They had spent many
    hours listening to speaker after
    speaker, interspersed with worship sessions,
    and for many, very little sleep." >>

    Remember EST from, oh maybe, the late 70's?

    Group cult brainwashing, evidently, works
    well in many situations.  

    •  the trick is (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      moiv, greenearth, Spoonfulofsugar

      that these days, that has become large segments of modern christianity.

      barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

      by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:34:05 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yes indeed (6+ / 0-)

      there are aspects of Teen Mania's mass events that certainly remind me of accounts of what "large group awareness trainings" like EST are and were like. But unlike what people think "brainwashing" is, these practices (including creation of vulnerable emotional states, and denial that these states are created by leaders) have become mainstream in churches and are thus not out of the ordinary when experienced at these events.

    •  My 13/14 yr old students are always (5+ / 0-)

      telling me about the "all-nighters" they have attended with their youth group at their (Dominionist) church.

      Furthermore, I teach a current events class and a very disturbing thing happened in class with these same students. The students "share" a story with the class that they read in the newspaper. Most of the time, when the student is finished sharing they just wander back to their seat and then I call on a different student. Today, one student "shared" the Pat Robertson/Crystal Ball Attack story and after he was finished sharing the students broke into an applause. The students have never applauded another student before. My stomach went through the floor.

      •  Ground's shifing under your feet (5+ / 0-)

        The sleep deprivation aspect of these events is now a running joke, particularly at the Saturday morning sessions... "how much sleep did YOU get?"

        The work that these church youth groups are doing is having some effect - probably not everywhere, but not confined to the usual "Bible belt" either. It tends to be an outer-suburban phenomenon, and I wouldn't underestimate just how far the influence of elderly Christian leaders like Robertson and Falwell goes among some young people.

        •  How much sleep do groups of teenagers EVER get? (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          zeke L, Catte Nappe, ticket punch

          Lots of decidedly non-Dominionist churches have youth events that include all-nighters, with nobody trying to brainwash anybody.  But the teenagers generally get very little sleep, as they also don't when they have a "slumber party" or "sleep-over" at somebody's house.  Slumber and sleep are generally the last things that happen when a group of teenagers get together overnight.  I'm old, but I remember when I was a teenager, and that's one thing that hasn't changed in the last 40 years.

          "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

          by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:56:28 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You're defending these guys multiple times over - (5+ / 0-)

            why?

            Sleep deprivation is one of the means that people are manipulated by groups - in extreme forms, it's used as part of interrogation. This is not just a party, it's a day and an evening-long event intended to make teenagers make certain decisions in a certain way; to tear teenagers down and rebuild them in a certain way in service to a particular political movement with a particular agenda (see the Wikipedia entry for full documentation of the political and organizational connections).

            Your comparison with a slumber party is completely disingenuous. It's not a group of teenagers just "getting together," it's an event created by mature, experienced adults with a $25 million/year budget to pipeline teenagers into particular decisions and particular activities.

            As for your earlier comment: "dominionism" is pretty much inherent to Christianity - some Christians use it, some Christians don't - and is just one of the tools laying on the ground that a political movement can pick up and use. That's what happened here. It's in the context of an organization with a particular agenda to "redefine society" that his prayer becomes significant to the rest of us.

            •  I'm not defending these guys (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              ticket punch

              I merely posted a comment saying that the the attack on Ford for reciting what would be a thorougly unremarkable pledge to most Christians is seems a little overblown, especially since you've cited no evidence that he attended the entire conference.

              As for the "sleep deprivation," one night where a bunch of teenagers get relatively little sleep is something very different than multiple days and nights where prisoners are involuntarily kept awake.  If one or more of these kids announce that they're really beat and feel like turning in, does some adult force them to stay awake?  There may be many things wrong with these people, and there are certainly many, many points on which I vigorously disagree with them, but having a youth retreat where teenagers don't get much sleep for one night just doesn't seem like the earth-shaking threat to me that it apparently does to you.

              As for your comment that "'dominionism' is pretty much inherent to Christianity," I think that says volumes about why you apparently don't understand my point of view.  

              "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

              by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 08:30:36 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  asdf (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            greenearth, YoyogiBear

            Solzhenitsyn writes: "Sleeplessness . . . befogs the reason, undermines the will, and the human being ceases to be himself, to be his own 'I.' "

            Link

            Lee: Sleep deprivation is one of the 'no touch' torture techniques used by our torturers. Read about Jose Padilla, american citizen, for one. He's now been determined to be incompetent to assist his lawyers in his defense. (Yes, I know, there were many other elements in the Padilla case.)

            •  There's no question about sleep deprivation ... (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              ticket punch

              being torture if it's PROLONGED, but that's not what it sounds like is being described.  I gather the diarist is talking about a weekend retreat where a bunch of teenagers aren't forcibly kept awake, but where they simply don't get much sleep.

              I've gone totally without sleep for a night on any number of occasions in my life, and for a couple of nights on a few occasions, and although I was tired afterward (especially after the second night), it certainly wasn't to the point of not being in contol of my emotions or intellect.

              If somebody tells me that these kids are forcibly being kept awake for multiple days and nights, then I'll readily change my view, but from what's been described, this sounds like something FAR from the kind of sleep deprivation that's used in interrogation or torture.

              "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

              by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:08:47 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  I didn't mean to get off on a tangent (0+ / 0-)

                about sleep deprivation. It's just one element in the way the teens are manipulated and pressured into group think at a mass event where peer pressure is a tool for coercing unanimity of thought. The adults provide the content of what the kids are supposed to think. It's the combination of propaganda, peer pressure, softening of mental focus via sleepiness. The content is hate-filled and terrorizing (not to us, but to teens who've already grown up in churches hearing these messages to fear people who don't believe the same religious teachings that they do). It is, as dogemperor tells us, and I agree, spiritual abuse. And the abuse is done not only to force this ideology on these kids, but also eventually to force it onto all of us.

                Your protestation about your own experience of going without sleep is not convincing because it is only one person's experience, and without the mass event with the propaganda, and a totally different mindset and background it's not a fair comparison. It reminds me of Rush Limbaugh comparing the Abu Ghraib photos to college hazing.

            •  First they're Nazis, now they're Gitmo torturers? (0+ / 0-)

              Sorry, I'm not buying any of this.

              As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

              by ticket punch on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:14:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

        •  The school that I am talking about, Mike (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          stormcoming, Mike Doughney

          is just that - outer suburban and not located in the "Bible Belt".

  •  "Dominionist" (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    moiv, greenearth, fiddlingnero

    "Dominionist" is not actually language I use often, or particularly enjoy, however, for the sake of trying to get a title onto this thing, and in the text, for the purposes of this piece, purely so people would understand what it was I was talking about, I used it- I'm a pragmatist.

    The language Mike and I have spearheaded and tend to use is Biblical America- those advocating A biblical America- a different America, one that would use their interpretation fo the Bible as the sole basis of all governance and social interaction.

    Biblical Americans are working to re-make America into their vision of a Biblical America.

    barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

    by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:51:41 PM PDT

    •  No one here ever went on a church retreat? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      leevank, Catte Nappe

      Nobody?

      I did. And I gotta tell ya:

      I'm shocked--shocked!--to find that sleep deprivation occurs during religious youth events.

      The flip side: It's hard to stay on the mountaintop after the event's over, the adrenalin's worn off and you're totally craving a nap.

      As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.

      by ticket punch on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 07:55:45 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Maybe not (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ticket punch

        Given the fact that one comment described what was apparently a scripture reading by one of Ford's sons as a eulogy that sounded like it "came from a very rightwing script, weird to the bone," it's entirely possible that this thread is one more example of the cultural disconnect to which Barack Obama has referred, but which most Kossacks insist doesn't exist.

        I think Dominionism is terrible theology, as is Biblical literalism, but we would have more credibility in criticizing what's really wrong with it if we didn't attack it for things that really seem pretty unremarkable, such as "sleep deprivation" techniques that are so ineffective that kids actually have to ask each other the next morning after one night of such "sleep deprivation" how much sleep they got (thus implying that they got at least some sleep and certainly weren't forcibly kept awake).

        "Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither liberty nor security." -Ben Franklin

        by leevank on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 10:45:02 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  I know the Amway owners (DeVos, et al) were very (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cosette, greenearth

    close to Gerald Ford.  

    I suppose that might also bolster the claim that he was aligned with right-wing Christianity.

    I wonder if the Michigan event was being funded by Amway folks?

    American overseas? Register to vote at www.VoteFromAbroad.org

    by YoyogiBear on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 08:59:48 PM PDT

  •  D'oh! (0+ / 0-)

    I know better- Teen Mania is a standard 501c3- and still not required to disclose their funders.

    barf.org : a resource for all who work to monitor and counter the Biblical America movement.

    by stormcoming on Wed Jan 03, 2007 at 09:55:36 PM PDT

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