Daily Kos

Is war on Iran an election strategy to sink Hillary?

Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 04:40:43 PM PDT

The GOP has a slate full of losers and Bush has fully discredited the Party's brand.  Chances for a GOP Presidential win in 2008, regardless of who the Dem nominee is, are slim to none.  That is, given the EXISTING political dynamic.  

But what if Bush bombs Iran?  And what if Hillary is the nominee?

I submit that such a scenario would so fracture the Democratic Base that a GOP victory would be likely.  The Lieberman-Kyl Amendment is a critical piece of legislation.  Hillary's support for it would box her in, such that, if Bush were to start bombing Iran tomorrow, she really couldn't complain as a legal matter.  But having been politically neutered, Hillary would likely be savaged by a significant portion of the party.  A mass defection, even if not likely before, would be assured.

There are two precedents that are critical in understanding how the language in Lieberman-Kyl can easily be twisted to support an attack on Iran.  And more importantly, this can be done in a way that the Clintonites cannot complain about.

UN 1441


The first precedent(not in time) is the UN SC Resolution 1441 that authorized "serious consequences" if Iraq failed to comply with its provisions.  From Wikipedia:

The resolution text was drafted jointly by the United States and the UK, the result of eight weeks of tumultuous negotiations, particularly with Russia and France. France questioned the phrase "serious consequences" and stated repeatedly that any "material breach" found by the inspectors should not automatically lead to war; instead the UN should pass another resolution deciding on the course of action. In favour of this view is the fact that previous resolutions legitimizing war under Chapter VII used much stronger terms, like "...all necessary means..." in Resolution 678 in 1990 and that Resolution 1441 stated that the Security Council shall "remain seized of the matter." Supporters of the US Administration have argued, however, that France's declaration of intent to veto any military action in Iraq effectively prevented the Security Council from remaining seized of the matter since at that point it could take no action to enforce the standing Resolutions.

At the time the U.S. EXPRESSLY claimed that 1441 did not authorize force:

The ambassador for the United States, John Negroponte, said:


"[T]his resolution contains no "hidden triggers" and no "automaticity" with respect to the use of force. If there is a further Iraqi breach, reported to the Council by UNMOVIC, the IAEA or a Member State, the matter will return to the Council for discussions as required in paragraph 12.[2] "

Other nations voted based on the Bush-Cheney administration's representations.  But they were LIED TO.

The ambassador for the United Kingdom, the co-sponsor of the resolution, said:


" We heard loud and clear during the negotiations the concerns about "automaticity" and "hidden triggers" -- the concern that on a decision so crucial we should not rush into military action; that on a decision so crucial any Iraqi violations should be discussed by the Council. Let me be equally clear in response... There is no "automaticity" in this resolution. If there is a further Iraqi breach of its disarmament obligations, the matter will return to the Council for discussion as required in paragraph 12. We would expect the Security Council then to meet its responsibilities."

The message was further confirmed by the ambassador for Syria:


" Syria voted in favour of the resolution, having received reassurances from its sponsors, the United Statesof America and the United Kingdom, and from France and Russia through high-level contacts, that it would not be used as a pretext for striking against Iraq and does not constitute a basis for any automatic strikes against Iraq. The resolution should not be interpreted, through certain paragraphs, as authorizing any State to use force. It reaffirms the central role of the Security Council in addressing all phases of the Iraqi issue.

It should be clear that the Bush administration will not hesitate to twist language to support a bombing campaign of Iran

Which brings us to...

Iraqi Liberation Act and Clinton Regime Change Policy


The second and most relevant precedent is the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998.

In that Act, later adopted as Clinton's expressed foreign policy, Congress voted for "regime change" of Iraq as U.S. policy.

Among the provisions of that Act?

SEC. 8. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.

Nothing in this Act shall be construed to authorize or otherwise speak to the use of United States Armed Forces (except as provided in section 4(a)(2)) in carrying out this Act.

In December of 1998, Clinton ordered Operation Desert Fox, an extensive bombing of Iraq's believed WMD facilities.  The bombing was also generally acknowledged to be an assassination attempt on Saddam Hussein.

Welcome to the true Operation Desert Fox.

It is clear from the target list, and from extensive communications with almost a dozen officers and analysts knowledgeable about Desert Fox planning, that the U.S.-British bombing campaign was more than a reflexive reaction to Saddam Hussein's refusal to cooperate with UNSCOM's inspectors. The official rationale for Desert Fox may remain the "degrading" of Iraq's ability to produce weapons of mass destruction and the "diminishing" of the Iraqi threat to its neighbors. But careful study of the target list tells another story.

[...]

The heart of the Desert Fox list (49 of the 100 targets) is the Iraqi regime itself: a half-dozen palace strongholds and their supporting cast of secret police, guard and transport organizations.

[...]

Desert Fox's most significant departure from Desert Storm is its targeting of offices associated with Saddam Hussein's entourage and advisers, the Iraqi intelligence and Ba'ath party organizations, and the security and transport apparatus that is so essential for Saddam's survival.

[...]

In 1991, only two installations associated with the protection of Saddam Hussein were hit. In Desert Fox, this group makes up 20 percent of the total of all targets.

What is the point?  That notwithstanding Hillary's professed belief about the limits of the Lieberman-Kyl Amendment, Bush could order airstrikes on Iran tomorrow and Hillary would have two choices. She could either shut the f--- up or she could condemn her husband's military foray in 1998 as an unconstitutional and illegal operation.  Actually, there would be a third choice.  She could complain and expose herself as a rank hypocrite.

[In truth, ANY Democrat who supported Clinton in 1998 and also voted for Lieberman-Kyl would be faced with the same stark choice.]

It should be obvious at this point that, from an election standpoint,  the real threat isn't an invasion of Iran tomorrow (although that would be catastrophic).

 No, the real threat for Democrats is an attack on Iran, oh, say, next March or April after Hillary has sewn up the nomination. It would guarantee a massive fracturing of the party, and likely throw the election to the GOP.  The effects on down-ticket races would be equally severe.

My personal take is that an attack on Iran would be such a profoundly foolish mistake that considering the ramifications on the Democratic Party is a more than a little myopic.  Still, take it for what it is.

Tags: George W. Bush, Hillary Clinton, Iran, 2008, election (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 53 comments

  •  The nomination of Clinton (4+ / 0-)

    would fracture the party and hurt the downticket races even without an attack on Iran.

    Restore constitutional government in America. Impeach Bush and Cheney.

    by revbludge on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 04:41:27 PM PDT

  •  If her campaign so far is any indication (5+ / 0-)

    she's thought this one through.

    I think it'll help her. People will trust her as prospective Commander in Chief more than they will trust the GOP candidate, whoever that might be.

    •  What in God's name are you talking about? (5+ / 0-)

      Are Hillary supporter's pathological incapable of making an argument other than in the most mind-numbing general terms?  She's "thought this one through"?  

      And what does this mean? "I think it'll help her. "  Are you seriously arguing that an attack on Iran will help Hillary?  If so, please elaborate.  Who are these Democrats who do not support Hillary now who would praise her for supporting an attack on Iran?  And why would they offset the millions who would flee the party in disgust?

      Americans do not trust Hillary to be Commander in Chief.  They trust a DEMOCRAT to be Commander in Chief.  And they do so on the (misguided, in Hillary's case) assumption that the DEMOCRAT is not going to continue the same idiotic policies that Bush is.  Funny, Hillary criticizes the RESULTS of Bush's policies, but never criticizes the policies themselves.

      •  Millions who would flee the party in disgust (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        campskunk, Caldonia, hopscotch1997, Alegre

        You might be disgusted, but you ain't millions.

        The swing voters -- the independents and disaffected Republicans -- would weigh her against Romney or Thompson or Giuliani and decide she's the safer bet.

        And Hillary's never criticized Bush's policies? Really? Wow.

        •  How clueless do you have to be to say (6+ / 0-)

          that she's never critiicized his policies? You know that famous AIPAC speech where she says nothing is off the table? Later in that speech, she goes after Bush for taking diplomacy with Iran off the table. funny how you never hear about that part.

          The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

          by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:54:45 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Maybe because (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            tgs1952, Pompatus, rmx2630

            keeping a preemptive nuclear strike "on the table" is a much bigger deal.  Her criticisms of the Bush administration on foreign policy are effectively what you hear from Republicans: Bush has poorly executed, but hasn't been fundamentally wrong in his approach.

            •  Oh! Tell us, dear child, which presidential (4+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              campskunk, YellowDogBlue, Caldonia, Alegre

              candidate would take a nuclear strike off the table entirely against a hostile nation that is developing nuclear capabilities?

              Name please and quote.

              This ought to be good.

              The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

              by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:13:49 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Well, Ron Paul, for one (0+ / 0-)

                Liberty-Watch.com

                During the early June Republican presidential debate in South Carolina, nine of the 10 candidates supported making a pre-emptive nuclear strike against Iran, a country of 75 million people, which has not declared war on the United States, and has no nuclear weapons.

                [snip]

                When Blitzer asked Duncan Hunter, "If it came down to a pre-emptive U.S. strike against Iran’s nuclear facility, if necessary would you authorize as president the use of tactical nuclear weapons?" Hunter replied, "I would authorize the use of tactical nuclear weapons if there was no other way to pre-empt those particular centrifuges."

                Mitt Romney said he wouldn’t take options off the table either, and none of the other candidates voiced opposition. Except, of course, Congressman Ron Paul. When asked later in the debate: "What is the most pressing moral issue in the United States right now?" Paul seized the opportunity to express his outrage at his fellow candidates’ position: "I think it is the acceptance just recently that we now promote pre-emptive war. I do not believe that’s part of the American tradition. And now, tonight, we hear that we’re not even willing to remove from the table a pre-emptive nuclear strike against a country that has done no harm to us directly and is no threat to our national security!"

                George W. Bush - the Percy Wetmore of presidents.

                by rmx2630 on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 10:03:45 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

      •  actually, polls find americans trust Hillary. (5+ / 0-)

        Americans like Hillary - she has, like, a 90% approval rating among Democrats. And Americans in general, even Republicans regard her as being strikingly capable of being a good president.

        Kyl Lieberman is going to turn out to be much ado about nothing. Primarily this is young guys who already don't like Hillary getting themselves hysterical about anything they can. KL is a non-binding piece of legislation that says that the military "should" be designated a terrorist organization. Nothing more. Nothing in there makes it one iota easier for Bush to attack Iran.

        Read Seymour Hersh, Bush/Cheney have believed they have the right to do so all along.

        The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

        by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:52:38 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  The premise of the diary (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Pompatus

          is that IF Bush bombs Iran it would be a disaster for the Democrats if Hillary were the nominee.

          You can stick your head in the sand and deny the importance of Lieberman-Kyl (We have a war on terrorism. We just designated the Iranian military as terrorists.  What would make you think we just declared war on Iran? Its non-binding! Like the 2002 vote!) Whatever.  

          But YellowDogBlue seems to be arguing that IF we were to start bombing Iran, Hillary would benefit.  I find that laughably stupid and without an iota of evidence.

          p.s. has it occurred to you that whatever support that Hillary has with Democrats might be based on the premise that she would never support another neocon misadventure?

          •  Ahhh, that's where you're wrong. (5+ / 0-)

            Kyl Lieberman did not designate the Imperial Guard as a terorrist organization. The Senate doesn't have that power. It said they should be designated and that's about it. Kyl Lieberman, despite the hysteria, does nothing. It's a meaningless piece of legislation that was designed probably to be used against Democratic candidates. So Hillary got around that - she voted for a bill that is meaningless and now introduced legislation with teeth that specifically says Bush does not have the authority to attack Iran.

            Hillary's support is based on the fact that people have known her for a long time now, they're confident that she's smart, capable and will do a good job as president.

            The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

            by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:08:34 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Kyl Lieberman Allows Financial Institutions to (4+ / 0-)

              shut down the funding of the IRG.  That's it.  This bill will let them shut off funds to the Taliban.

            •  This is not how the world works Lorelynn (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              DelRPCV, Pompatus

              First, if Hillary thought the bill was "meaningless" why vote for it?  Reasonable people can disagree about how important the vote was, but to suggest that it was meaningless is asinine.  It wasn't a dKos poll.

              Second, if Bush does bomb Iran, what specifically do you think Hillary's position would be?

              Third, the Lieberman-Kyl was no more meaningless than the 1998 resolution to declare regime change U.S. policy.  And yet Clinton engaged in a bombing campaign, in part, to decapitate the Iraqi leadership.  Is your claim that Clinton lacked the authority to do so?  Is that what you think Hillary would argue?

              Fourth, the proponents of Lieberman-Kyl understand something that Hillary doesn't.  The American people have a low tolerance for Senatorial bullshit.  If Bush bombs Iran and Hillary criticizes it by claiming that Lieberman-Kyl was "meaningless" it will sound as fucking ridiculous as Kerry's "I voted for it before I voted against it."

              Fifth, whether or not you think Lieberman-Kyl does give Bush authority, Hillary could not criticize an attack because she strongly defended the premise of the Amendment, that the Republican Guard is a terrorist organization.  What is she going to say?  That she opposes terrorism and believes the Republican Guard are terrorists but doesn't want to do anything about it?  The American people are going to eat that shit right up.

              Hillary and her sycophants are trying to bullshit their way to the nomination.  Create a vague sense that she "is smart, capable and will do a good job as president."

              The problem is she already voted for a war that was stupid.  And she handed the reins to a President who was incapable and unlikely to do a good job.  If she does it AGAIN, it is hardly likely that the warm and fuzzy impression that Hillary enjoys among low-information Democrats will persist.

              •  yes, it is how world works. (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                campskunk, Caldonia
                1. It's meaningless as legislation. That doesn't mean it isn't a powerful campaign tool against Democrats who voted against it.
                1. Hillary is opposed to Bush bombing Iran and proved this by introducing legislation today that would prevent him from doing so.
                1. Who said the two are equivocal? You need documentation on that. Otherwise, it's just you making shit up.
                1. Bush can't use it as a justication for bombing. That language was taken out. If he tries to, he'll look like an idiot.
                1. Sure she could - that's why she introduced an bill today to prevent Bush from iran.

                You're just making shit up because you can't sstand the fact she's in first place. And Hillary is beating all the other Democrats in all demographics - including high information voters. Got that? Voters with college degrees are more likely to support Hillary than any other candidate. She has the huge lead over Obama that she does because of her support among a demographic who, previous to Hillary, showed very little interest in voting - single women. And if they show up to vote, in the numbers that they say they're going to, Hillary is going to win in a landslide and remake contemporary politics. But even if they don't, she's still beating all the other Democrats. He he.

                The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

                by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 07:06:37 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Okay... (0+ / 0-)

                  1. So, she voted for a meaningless amendment to hand her opponents a club to beat her over the head with.  Got it.
                  1. No.  Hillary is a veteran finger-in-the-air politician and I suspect that her polling told her that Lieberman-Kyl was a deal-breaker for some Democrats.  Hence her trying to walk it back.
                  1. Let's try this again.  Do you think that Clinton's 1998 attack on Iraq, which was widely seen as a decapitation strike against Hussein, was illegal or unconstitutional?  If not, what legal authority do believe Clinton had?
                  1. You mean like how he looked like an idiot when he forgot to go back to the UN SC after he claimed Saddam violated 1441?  Funny, I don't remember that part.
                  1. Hillary's position is going to be that Iran DOES pose the threat that Bush claims but that she OPPOSES that Bush do anything about it?  Wow, sounds like some stern Commander-in-Chief material there.
                  •  LOL - Hillary's aiming for the general, (2+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    campskunk, YellowDogBlue

                    not the primaries. This is all about winning the presidency.

                    1. Who is beating her over the head with it? Falling poll numbers please, or it's meaningless there too.
                    1. She knew that before she voted. The legislation is meaningless and she knows it. People who are pissed about aren't voting for her anyway.
                    1. You brought up. You make your own case. I guess you can't do that.
                    1. So? It won't hurt Hillary. All I care about is the Democratic nomination.
                    1. We dont' know what claim Bush will use to bomb Iran. Whatever it is, Hillary is moving to defund it. You have a problem with that?

                    Encouraging the State Department to designate a military a terrorist organization so that their funds can be grabbed, is not the same thing as granting someone authorization for war. It just isn't. People who don't Hillary are pretending it is, but that's just them not being able to see beyond their partisanship. The majority of Dems voted for it - including Durbin who voted against authorization. It's a nothing bill.

                    The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

                    by lorelynn on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 08:00:02 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  All I can say is (0+ / 0-)

                      If you honestly think that the reason that this kept coming up -- the reason that Lieberman was pushing it -- was simply so that the State Department could seize assets, you are really, really naive.

      •  LOL! Pathologically Incable???? (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        campskunk, Caldonia
    •  You're committing truth ... (5+ / 0-)

      Never a good idea around here.

      People know that Iraq is a fucking debacle, and if we mix it up with Iran that will be a fucking debacle too. The American public understands this. But the American public is never going to elect anyone as Commander in Chief who spouts Kucinich pieties about the rest of the world.

      The best fortress is to be found in the love of the people - Niccolo Machiavelli

      by al Fubar on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:49:02 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  An attack on Iran would (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    space, tgs1952, Pompatus, ShadowSD, greenboy

    energize the 29 percenters who won;t vote for a Dem.   Hillary's warmongering would keep the Dems at home because many of us just can't betray ourselves and vote for a continuation of these wars.

    Hillary spent this year saying if she knew now, what Bush would do, she would not voted for the authorization.  But now she is making the same mistake but with Iran.  

    She certainly has lost my support and my vote.

  •  Well (0+ / 0-)

    the whole 'will or wont we' bomb Iran has been around since before Hillary threw her hat in the ring.

    It's a neighborly day in this beautywood. Relentless!

    by ablington on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 05:51:15 PM PDT

  •  war on Iran (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    tgs1952, Pompatus

    is the best anti-incumbent strategy I can imagine for both political parties.

    What's the blowback from the price of gas/diesel heading for $20/gallon? 10s of millions of job losses within a few months, and a hundred million plus voters remembering to vote.

    Against the Republicans who started the war, and against the Democrats who didn't even try to stop it.

    If the goal is to have Kucinch as Speaker of the House and Feingold as Senate Majority leader, it's a great idea. It might even get Edwards into the White House since he can't be blamed for not voting against it in the Senate.

    If the goal is to erase both major parties from the American political landscape, it's a great idea.

    Going on record as being somebody who voted in favor of the Second Great Depression doesn't look like a sound political strategy.

    Looking for intelligent energy policy alternatives? Try here.

    by alizard on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:00:11 PM PDT

  •  It is oxymoronic for a Democrat (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Pompatus, betson08, greenboy

    to vote for Lieberman-Kyl. If you voted for it, you are not a democrat.

  •  Isn't it just a little curious (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    betson08

    to anybody here why the GOP POTUS field is so crowded with candidates that are unacceptable to the GOP evangelical base?  They can't win without them.  And there's no rift between them and GWB.  What do they know that we don't?

    Why do DEMs keep acting as if the GOP and Rove pull rabbits out of hats?  They haven't done that (unless one would define voter suppression, ballot box  stuffing and rigged vote counting as "rabbits" and not good old fashioned fraud).

    The country has soured on the GOP.  It's a lot like 1967.  Except this time the GOP doesn't have a little known VP without a generalized negative reputation running in this election.  None of the DEM candidates, except Gravel, appear to be as weak as Dukakis.  Even Kucinich, although DK circa 2003 would have been.  So where is the smart GOP money running to?

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:16:43 PM PDT

    •  Not sure what you are getting at (0+ / 0-)

      Can you clarify?

      •  If the GOP plans on (0+ / 0-)

        winning next year, how are they going to do it?  Demonizing the DEM candidate only works if necessary constituencies have no objection to the GOP candidate.    Then there's that inside/outside thing that always goes on.  The candidate most favored by the insiders usually gets the nomination.  My read at this point is that the GOP insiders haven't settled on one yet.  Just as four years ago the DEM insiders hadn't settled on one.  What that means to me is that at best their ambivalent about the election.  Weighing the advantages and disadvantages of taking a dive.

        What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

        by Marie on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 07:46:15 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The vote was not for war with Iran, nor did (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    campskunk, Alegre

    it authorize war, so Clinton would have plenty ability to say whatever she wants to about it if Bush starts attacking Iran.

  •  not just Hillary (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    Pompatus, betson08, masslib

    If Bush/Cheney/Israel hit Iran, and it looks like we're in for a decade-long, gulf-wide conflict, is that going to help Edwards or Obama in the general?

    I think this is a very real possibility, and I absolutely agree that domestic politics will play a role in BushCo's decisions (after all, we went to iraq so he could get re-elected).

    but it doesn't hurt hillary more than either a generic democrat or her two main opponents.  

    she's actually the best-positioned of any of them, in my view.

    what would joe rauh do?

    by nbutter on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:27:31 PM PDT

  •  If Bush begins war with Iran... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    betson08

    ...I am firmly convinced that the country would move much closer to coming unglued, and that the Republican Party would get the Ezekiel 25:17 treatment from the electorate.

    The public is already pissed off about Iraq. Invading Iran would make them take up pitchforks. And it ain't the Democrats who are going to be on the receiving end of their anger.

    We have our nominee. Now it's time to drink John McCain's milkshake.

    by Devin on Mon Oct 01, 2007 at 06:29:02 PM PDT

  •  Well, she's not helping herself any (0+ / 0-)

    by voting on things like that Iran resolution.

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