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The US political elite and media that conceals the brutality of the Israeli occupation for sectional political gains are accomplices to this sadism, and their silence endangers the security of the United States. When we cannot understand why Arab audiences, who are perfectly aware of what the Israeli army has been doing to Palestinians for decades, are outraged, it leads us into policy mistakes in dealing with the Middle East.

Juan Cole

Neocons and the right wing political parties in Israel,not Islamofascism, are the greatest danger to peace in the Middle East and the world.  Neocons and the pro Likud lobby are behind the brutal occupation, apartheid, and colonial policies imposed by Israel on the Palestinian people of the West Bank and Gaza. These sadististic policies have enraged Islamic peoples and have led to resistance including the terrorism of 9/ll. In the US,  the Neocons and the Likud lobby (who do not represent mainstream American Jewry or Israelis) use propaganda against Palestinian and Islamic peoples.  They label them Islamofascists and terrorists, when, in fact, they are the  victims of terrorist practices designed and supported by the Neocons and Likudiks.

Neocons are the intellectual architects of Americas policies in the Middle East.  Those policies indiscriminantly side with right wing Israeli politicians and support its agenda of land theft, ethnic cleansing and apartheid in the West Bank and Gaza.  

In order to promote an agenda that is grossly unfair and one sided the Neocons use their influence in the media and the academy to intimidate and distort the facts, and when that doesn’t work, surpress dissent.  It is well known that anyone who criticizes Israel in public, whether that person be a Nobel prize winner like Jimmy Carter or Desmond Tutu, or a distinguished professor like Walt or Mearsheimer, will have his or her personhood attacked viciously in the mainstream press.  It is usual and customary for dissenting voices to be silenced through pre-emptive cancellation of public events such speaking engagements, etc. Desmond Tutu speech cancelled The pervasive climate of fear that is designed to squelch dissent in our universities is a direct result of intimadation tactics of the Neocons.  Academic Freedom is at risk  Fear of the facts getting out is behind these neocon fascistic tactics.

But the #1 tactic used by the Neocons to surpress the truth is to blame the victim. Victim blaming wikipedia This is a technique psychologists know a great deal about.  It has been used frequently against women who are rape victims.  "She was asking for it," goes the refrain. The neocon/likudnik refrain is well known: Palestinians are terrorists and you can’t negotiate with terrorists; Islam is a failed culture that is antimodern; Arabs are killers who hate freedom; etc etc. In other words it's all their fault. Facts don’t count when the media is controlled by friendly neoconartists. What you don’t get are facts.  Facts like this one: last year the IDF killed 143 Palestinian children; Palestinians killed exactly one Jewish child.    

Despite America’s talk of spreading Democracy in the Middle East, the sad reality is that America is on the wrong side in the "war on terrorism".  We invented, marketed and sold that war.  We are the terrorists. The US is responsible for the genocide that has killed 1 million in Iraq. The US is responsible for backing the ethnic cleansing in Palestine. The US provided the cluster bombs that destroyed the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon. We are the ones who now want to bomb Iran back to the stone age. It is time that Americans take to heart the Bible injuction that says that we ought to attend less to the mote in the eyes of others, and more to the beam in our own eyes. It is time that America focus on repairing the world it has broken, than on destroying more of it.

Originally posted to john dordan on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:34 AM PDT.


Who is the greater danger: Neocons or Islamofascists?

55%50 votes
24%22 votes
20%18 votes

| 90 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

  •  I refuse to participate (11+ / 0-)

    in any discussion, or vote in any poll that takes the concept of  "islamofascism" seriously.

    Complete and utter nonsense.

    Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

    by bumblebums on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:38:17 AM PDT

  •  I Rarely Hop Into the IP Debate (4+ / 0-)

    cause it is so complex and so emotional. But the three owners of my firm are Jewish. They're all liberals and we talk politics 24/7. Now I know they are a small subsection of Jewish America and as with any group there is a large range of opinions on any given topic.

    But they are uniform in their dislike of the neocons and feel that the Israel's hardline stance against the  the Palestinian people is hurting, not helping their cause. I tend to agree with them 24/7.

    "It is not enough to win, all others must lose," Sun Tzu.

    by webranding on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:38:38 AM PDT

  •  same sheeple in sheep clothing. period. (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    "Time is for careful people, not passionate ones"

    by roseeriter on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:38:40 AM PDT

  •  The term (9+ / 0-)

    Islamofacist is a purely RW construct. Every time you use the term you are doing their work. Can we please go back to Islamic Fundamentalist or similar.

    The expression is a disgusting attempt at word association whereby the mention of Islam automatically triggers the term fascist in the listeners mind. The Right Wing shits will deny this and act shocked at the mere suggestion but this is why they pay people like Luntz lots of money.

    Impeachment is not an option ........It is a duty.

    by stevej on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:40:16 AM PDT

  •  Stop adopting right-wing language (6+ / 0-)

    The tern "Islamofascism" was invented by the right wing. It's a racist term, and frankly, it's stupid.

    By buying into this lie, and using this term, you just give it - and the right wing thugs who coined it - more power.  Using it shows you're not to be taken very seriously.  

    Sorry to be blunt, but adopting the right-wing's favorite tactics and talking points doesn't do much to bolster credibility. Try removing the term and you'll have more credibility on the subject.

    Personally, I won't bother to read anything from anyone who uses this rhetoric.  

    •  "islamofascist" is not racist (0+ / 0-)

      what Nation is this "Islam" where is it on a map? of  what complexion? Muslims are many races and nationalities there is no "race" called "Islam".

      A better term is perhaps, scapegoating...

      "My case is alter'd, I must work for my living." Moll Cut-Purse, The Roaring Girl - 1612, England's First Actress

      by theRoaringGirl on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:27:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I refuse to participate (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brittain33, livosh1, dnyedwab

    in this confusing mess, which at its heart, is an accusation that Jews control the USA.  

    And if anyone reading this imagines I am making a reflexive charge of anti-Semitism, just check out the collected diaries of Mr. Dordan, our very active, very predictable diarist.

    I'm one tough gazookus which hates all palookas,
    What ain't on the up and square....

    by Eric S on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:48:41 AM PDT

  •  Agree absolutely with comments (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leftyboy666, Southside, Doughnutman

    regarding that stupid and insulting frame being promulgate by wingnuts.  I say, let's drop 'I-F' from our vocabularies.

    In the possibly-not-immortal words of Bob Dylan:  Your mind is a temple
    Keep it beautiful and clean
    Don't let an egg get laid in it
    By something you can't see.

    Like a RW frame, for example.

    Does the star spangled banner still wave o'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

    by blue guitar on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:50:36 AM PDT

  •  I was a journalism major in 2003 (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:

    and I remember when Fox News started shifting over from Osama bin Laden to Saddam Hussein as a threat. They had a poll: "Who do you think is more dangerous: Osama or Saddam?" That's when I knew we were going to war in Iraq.

    In response, I put together a page that was a point-by-point comparison between Osama bin Laden and that other terrorist mastermind: Cobra Commander.

    If I want your pity I'll take it from you by force.

    by Alfred E Qaeda on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 09:52:22 AM PDT

  •  The Hard-Line Attitude Is TOWARD Israel (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    theRoaringGirl, dvo, redcardphreek, Paver

    By cherry-picking the years you report on, you give a grossly unfair picture of what happens in Israel.

    Obviously, neither Arabs nor Muslims are essentially evil, but their opposition to the very existence of Israel is on record. To present the viewpoint of such people as the objective truth from which Israeli "propaganda" deviates violates the most basic tenets of fair debate. Common sense tells us that one party to a bitter struggle will most likely not present an unbiased picture of that struggle.

    But terms such as "occupation," "apartheid," "brutal," "Likudnik," and others are lifted, directly, from the Jew-bashing polemics of the Arab Muslim world and their Western enablers and cheering section. You can't parrot such language and not expect to have your motivation questioned.

    Jimmy Carter may be anti-Semitic, or he may be a dupe of persuasive Muslims. All I know for sure is he's wrong in his characterization of Israel as an apartheid state, and that this characterization offends this liberal Democrat deeply.

    Your disinformation campaign is doomed to failure. The awareness of the suppression of all pro-Israel expression on our nation's campuses is already far too well known for you to promote the opposite of reality.

    And as long as you continue to eschew civilized discussion in favor of the vicious propaganda you spewed above, you will continue to be called "anti-Semitic." Because that is exactly how you are behaving. No one is smearing you. You are smearing yourself.

    Always take Arab/Muslim opinions on Israel with a grain of salt. Remember the libel of Jenin!

    I weigh 666 pounds in zero gravity; COME AND GET ME!

    by thirdnostril on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:04:15 AM PDT

  •  sigh (6+ / 0-)

    Always a pleasure to see another insightful and engaging diary from this poster.

    •  and, yet again, no tip jar (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      brittain33, JPhurst, boofdah

      Shame.  I'm donut-rich tonight.

      "I remember every detail. The Germans wore gray. You wore blue."

      by dfb1968 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:16:45 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Can't believe (0+ / 0-)

        this hit and run troll diarist is still allowed to post his crapola.

        ROAD - KILL STEW

        5 carrots, cut up
        1 lg. onion, diced
        2 lbs. stew meat, cut in pieces
        1 can mushroom soup
        6 med. potatoes, cut
        1/2 c. soy sauce
        2 c. water
        2 tbsp. lemon juice

        Put all except soup and lemon juice in crock pot at 7 or 8:00 a.m. At 4 or 5:00 p.m. add soup and lemon juice. Thicken with a little cornstarch and water.

  •  Yup. As was said elsewhere... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    leftyboy666, Doughnutman

    I object to your terms. The word "islamofascist" indicates that Islamic terrorists are a monolithic group with a single ideology and leadership. The opposite is true.

    "Which Democratic Congress are you watching? 'Cuz they seem like giant pussies to me. They don't do anything!" --- Jon Stewart

    by droogie6655321 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:06:54 AM PDT

  •  And, again, for the recommenders of this diarist (7+ / 0-)

    Let's play another exciting edition of "Know Your Diarist":

    If Iran has nukes the world will be a safer place

    USrael: Greatest Sponsor of Terror Since Hitler's Nazi Germany

    GE, Olbermann and the Military Industrial Complex

    Olbermann has been bought off by the Clintons

    "I remember every detail. The Germans wore gray. You wore blue."

    by dfb1968 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:09:57 AM PDT

    •  So why don't some TUs troll rate him? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:

      I would if I could.

      •  Check out his comment page (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:

        He never posts a tip jar, and when he does post a rare comment, we do TR him, but some idiots uprate him, and the whole thing starts all over again.

        He's got 16 comments on his page, and his highest rating is 2.00, but apparently it's not enough for auto-ban, yet.

        "I remember every detail. The Germans wore gray. You wore blue."

        by dfb1968 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:23:52 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  yes, but (0+ / 0-)

          nobody else had the decency or courage to bring forth the Tutu story. What's with that?

          If the "reasonable" had the capacity to talk about these issues, the "unreasonable" (as you suggest the diarist is) would be of no use to anyone.

          "As long as people believe in absurdities they will continue to commit atrocities." Voltaire

          by Euroliberal on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:43:26 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  You mean, of course, (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eric S

            other than the six other diarists that wrote about the Tutu story before Dordan, and without ever using cute phrases like USrael.

            "I remember every detail. The Germans wore gray. You wore blue."

            by dfb1968 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 10:47:14 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  What? (1+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Eric S

            The Tutu story was widely discussed here. Heck, what was stopping you or someone else from diarying it? "Decency or courage" is lame, since it's not like it takes anything more than a little hard work to put together a diary and walk away.

            Carl Nyberg raised important issues in some of his posts, but it was the rampant Jew-baiting that brought him down. A poster doesn't have to be a complete zero in order to have demonstrated he doesn't belong here.

  •  I'm so glad... (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    brittain33, livosh1, Eric S, amad

    ...the commenters here are so concerned with inappropriate labeling such as "Islamofacist."

    Now perhaps we can do away with calling anyone who does not engage in Pavlonian hatred for anything Israel does as "neocon" or "Likudnik."

  •  Islamic wingnuttery has little to do with fascism (0+ / 0-)

    and more in common with the wingnuts in the other Religion of Peace.

    Osama has killed his thousands, and Bush his tens of thousands.

    by Sura 109 on Mon Oct 22, 2007 at 12:53:10 PM PDT

  •  Marxist scholar M. Rodinson on Islam & Fascism (0+ / 0-)

      Rodinson (see was a major scholar on Islam and Capitalism , a biographer of the Prophet Mohammhed (PBUH) and a supporter of the pan-Arab movements.
    Martin Kramer's Sandstorm: Islamism and Fascism: Dare to Compare
    The comparison of Islamism with fascism also made sense to the late Maxime Rodinson, the preeminent French scholar of Islam, who pioneered the application ...
    (A Review of Arab Culture and Arts)
    Al Jadid Contents 49
    Marxist, Rationalist, Orientalist: Remembering the Many Facets of Maxime Rodinson ... Al Jadid Staff Writers. 49. New Um Kulthoum Biography Searches Behind ...

    •  slamism and Fascism: Dare to Compare. (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Eric S

      The comparison of Islamism with fascism also made sense to the late Maxime Rodinson, the preeminent French scholar of Islam, who pioneered the application of sociological method to the Middle East. As a French Jew born in 1915, Rodinson also learned about fascism from direct experience. He moved to Syria in 1940, but the Vichy regime deported his parents to Auschwitz, where they perished. Rodinson was a man of the left—in his early years, militantly so—but he took his thinking from no one.

      In 1978, during Iran's revolution, enthusiasm for Islamism began to spread among his colleagues on the French left, who romanticized it as the vibrant, new anti-West. The French philosopher Michel Foucault become famously enamored of Ayatollah Khomeini.

      (see the examination of Foucault in New Politics, a democratic socialist quarterly here, , "The Seductions of Islamism." )

      Rodinson decided to set things straight, in a long front-page article in Le Monde, targeted at those who "come fresh to the problem in an idealistic frame of mind." Rodinson admitted that trends in Islamic movements such as the Muslim Brotherhood were "hard to ascertain."

         But the dominant trend is a certain type of archaic fascism (type de fascisme archaïque). By this I mean a wish to establish an authoritarian and totalitarian state whose political police would brutally enforce the moral and social order. It would at the same time impose conformity to religious tradition as interpreted in the most conservative light.

      By "archaic," Rodinson referred to the religious component of the ideology, largely absent from European fascism.

      I'm not sure whether Rodinson ever repeated this precise phrase, but putting it once on the front page of Le Monde was enough. He had accused his colleagues on the left of celebrating a form of fascism, from his perch at the pinnacle of Islamic scholarship. This especially sharp critic of Eurocentric distortions of Islam didn't shy from the comparison of Islamism with fascism, at a moment just as politically charged as the present one.

  •  Interesting comments.. (0+ / 0-)

    We do need to remove the IF phrase from the conversation... that's one of the major goals of the whole bigotry week... make IF part of "acceptable" language.

    LGF for instance took some dislike to this post on streetprophets:

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