Daily Kos

Obama, McClurkin, Black Sexuality and History

Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 10:52:16 AM PDT

With the announcement that Obama will be sponsoring a "gospel" tour to attract people of faith. Their has been a couple of disscusions going on about Obama's catering to the religious, and specifically to those who have voice their disagreement with homosexuality. While these types of discussions are very relevant, I think a history context can help fill in some gaps and help those who may not know the internals of how, and why, homosexuality is viewed the way it is in the african american community.

Black sexuality, and specifically black male sexuality (whether gay or straight), is always an uncomfortable subject, but understanding it can help us discuss this in a robust fashion.

There is some very good discussion here, here, here, and here about Obama's decision to attend a gospel tour with Grammy winning singer, Donnie McClurkin. I agree with Earl Ofari Hutchison at HuffPo when he says:

...Bush masterfully tapped that homophobic sentiment in 2000 in part with McClurkin and even more masterfully in 2004 again with McClurkin and the top gun mega black preachers in Ohio and Florida. He tapped it so masterfully that Bush's naked pander to gay bashing with the GOP spawned anti-gay marriage initiative in Ohio did much to win over a big chunk of black evangelical leaning voter to Bush...

[snip]

Although black evangelicals still voted overwhelmingly for Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry, they gave Bush the cushion he needed to bag Ohio and win the White House. There were early warning signs that might happen. The same polls that showed black's prime concern was with bread and butter issues -- and that Kerry was seen as the candidate who could deliver on those issues -- also revealed that a sizeable number of blacks ranked abortion, gay marriage and school prayer as priority issues.

Hutchison perfectly encapsulates the african-american voting paradigm. While the black community's support of progressive issues is overwhleming (~90%), there are some conservative issues -- abortion, gay marriage, school prayer -- that african americans hold onto, rightly or wrongly, and Republicans exploit it. But these conservative issues have a basis in history.

  • Slavery's Role (Mental Neutering)
  • Jim Crow's Role (Physical Neutering)


Slavery's Role

We all know about the devastation of slavery, but one aspect of it gets little discussion. What I call the "mental neutering" of the black man. Pundits love to pontificate about the broken homes -- ie. being raised by a single parent, or grandparent -- of the african-american community, but the "homes" of african-america were being broken up deliberately way before now. Often times whole families were placed on auction blocks, with the father going to this plantation, mother going to that plantation, and if there were children and they were old enough, or atleast "looked" old enough, they may have been sent to a third, or fourth plantation. If the different plantations were nearby, some visitations were allowed, but its was purely at the plantation's master discretion. Most of the time it was not allowed, because if a child was born, which plantation do they belong to. Remember, the more slaves you had the more value your plantation had. So the assaults on the black family structure have their roots in slavery, and thus began the stressing of family connectivity and hating, or at the very least disagreeing with, anything that is "perceived" to threaten it, whether it was dating ouside of the race, or homosexuality. Religion was the one thing that the slaves had to cling to. It was the one thing the master did not punish the slaves for excercising. However, with 2 church doctrines, one saying God meant for you to be slaves, and one saying God meant for you to be free man, but both saying homosexuality is an abomination, and a threat to the family, it wasn't hard to see why slaves gravitated towards a view of this nature. Slavery rendered the black male helpless to defend his family. He never knew if his wife, and children, if any, would be sold to other plantations, thus who he is, his manhood, was attacked. And unfortunately an unhealty rationale was used to justify hating gay people for attacking manhood.


Jim Crow's Role

This "neutering" didn't stop after slavery. It made it's way into Jim Crow era when blacks were not only lynched, but in quite a few a cases the lyncher sexually assaulted, and often time castrated victims before hanging them. And if the on-lookers were "lucky" they got a 3-for-1, when the victim would set ablaze while hanging. There was, and is, a fascination with the black male sexuality. Although, during Jim Crow, it took a sadistic form and was seen as an assault on the "white" power structure. Plenty of people have been hanged, but a sexual component was placed on black men. The white power structure sought ways to "feminize" the black male, and by feminize I mean to submit ones authority. The black man was made to submit to "white" authority, even relenquishing his authority in his own house. And it is the submitting of authority that, IMHO, that causes this knee jerk reaction to black gay men by the black community. As a straight black man I could care less, live and let live is my motto. But I do have a gay cousin and his brother, and I talk all the time. And one telling question he always ask, in some form, is "...why is my brother like that....doesn't he know black men already have a strike against them...and what about kids". As you can see, the overarching issue is not that his brother is gay, although I think he is still uncomfortable talking about it, it is the perception that his brother has given up his true power -- that of progeny, passing on legacy, protecting the family tree. That's not to excuse the religious part of this. Frankly, I think it is a cover, it is easier to say God wants me to hate you, because there's no personal responsibility in knowing why I hate, or actually tackling the reasons for the hate.

All in all, I just wanted to give my 2 cents to discussion....for what it is worth.

Tags: Barack Obama, Donnie McClurkin, black male sexuality (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 33 comments

    •  May want to fix the formatting a little (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MaskedKat

      a tad confusing which is referenced text and which is original..and you have some code remnants out there.

      "The revolution's just an ethical haircut away..." Billy Bragg

      by grannyhelen on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:06:22 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It's all true (0+ / 0-)

      Here's to tackling the reasons for the hate.  

      We've got a lot to move forward from, and perpetuating hate just perpetuates the worst of the status quo.

      I'm still not sure what exactly Obama is doing here, if he's just playing shallow politics that isn't terribly respectful of those black homophobic voters, and if he's not, that troubles me about him (and I've had a lot of respect for him personally and as a candidate, read his books, seen a lot of interviews, etc).

      "Civility costs nothing and buys everything." - Mary Wortley Montagu

      by sarac on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:50:57 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Racism & Bigotry Are Painful (0+ / 0-)

      subjects.  When  we see one of our own stellar candidates align himself with a person Bush was identified with and seen to be successful with in attracting the hate vote, it hurts us more immediately.

      They burn our children in their wars and grow rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

      by Limelite on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:37:03 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Gospel is good, bigotry is not, most gospel - - (4+ / 0-)

    singers are not bigots, yet Obama will campaign with a gospel-singing bigot.
    There is NO excuse possible.  
    The audacity of insensitivity?

    John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

    by Barry in MIA on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:02:51 AM PDT

  •  I think this (4+ / 0-)

    Frankly, I think it is a cover, it is easier to say God wants me to hate you, because there's no personal responsibility in knowing why I hate, or actually tackling the reasons for the hate.

    Is an excellent analysis, and not unique to the African American experience of religious justification of homophobia; God provides a wonderful cover for hatred for everyone.

    That being said, I think the overall analysis is excellent. Thank you.

    "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

    by dedmonds on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:04:34 AM PDT

  •  It bothers me in general (5+ / 0-)

    that Obama is pushing religion so hard in his campaign. This is an election for President, not religious leadership.

    Religion should NEVER be used to elect a President, it just continues what Bush and the neocons did.

    "You are more than the sum of what you consume, desire is not an occupation" KMFDM - Dogma

    by Chaoslillith on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:05:24 AM PDT

    •  I think religion is fine as long as it's genuine (4+ / 0-)

      Anyone who watched W (and paid attention) knew he was full of shit.  As long as Obama is being genuine, I have no problem with it.

      "I served my country. I played High School Football!" -Al Bundy

      by magi on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:11:23 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  The Black Church (7+ / 0-)

      was the only safe place that was theirs; the Black Preacher the only individual not directly dependent upon the White Community for his support.  It is thus that the Black Church plays a major role beyond the strictly-religious one.  

      It is a place of refuge, of independence, of community gathering.  In gospel music (and, before that, in spirituals) Black Folks could rejoice and express themselves in ways never permitted in or near White Society.  

      Just as you conduct diplomacy w/your adversaries, so, too, may you outreach to one who has different, or even repugnant beliefs.  

      I trust Barack on this.

    •  and they won (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Gregory Wonderwheel

      because much of the American electorate is very religious. You want a country where religion has no impact on politics and politicians are embarrassed to mention God, move to Europe. You have to deal with the electorate you got.

      and you wonder why liberals "antireligious" image has cost us votes!

      •  you can appeal to religion (3+ / 0-)

        without appealing to homophobia.

        "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

        by dedmonds on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:31:27 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          MaskedKat, Cassandra Waites

          Not all religious Americans are homophobic.

          Liberal religion has made great strides in dealing with GBLT rights and the 'welcoming congregations' movement - I'm personally most familiar with what has been happening in the Lutheran and Episcopalian churches, not to mention the Unitarian Universalists who lead the way in acceptance.

          That said, I'm not sure if it makes sense to single out Obama here, I don't know of a Dem candidate who is perfectly in line with my personal platform, and Obama would do a lot more for social justice of all kinds than Clinton, at least that's my take...  (I'm leaning Edwards, myself).

          "Civility costs nothing and buys everything." - Mary Wortley Montagu

          by sarac on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:44:59 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  well the minority ones (0+ / 0-)

            tend to be homophobic. certainly the churches i attend (which have mainly immigrants and people of color) the pastors tend to preach against homosexuality (though that comprises maybe 1% of their sermons). and the [white] liberal mainline protestant ones who are embracing gay marriage and having gay bishops are the ones who are most losing members and have virtually zilch political power.

            •  They certainly aren't all losing members... (0+ / 0-)

              My dad belongs to a suburban Minneapolis Lutheran church that decided to hire an openly lesbian pastor a few years ago and become a 'welcoming congregation'.  The church grew substantially after that, including a few African immigrants (in what was previously what always looked to me like an all-white church).  They just finished building an extension to the church because their services had become standing room only.

              UUs seemto have gained in the numbers of people who self-identify as such and lost a bit of ground in congregations.  The flip side of that is that they are intensely politically active.

              The main problem I see with liberal churches is that they tend to keep themselves to themselves a lot more - which is a positive of course, but also makes them less driven to recruit new members, or demonstrate their beliefs in public.  But we're working on that...

              "Civility costs nothing and buys everything." - Mary Wortley Montagu

              by sarac on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:41:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

    •  I agree. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      oldpro

      Even if it's genuine, I don't think it has a place in public discourse. I'm uncomfortable with someone's personal faith guiding policy decisions that will affect ME, dammit! And blatantly courting the religious vote makes me question whether or not a candidate is capable of keeping the two separate.

      I like Obama, and I want to believe that his policy decisions are/will be driven by principles other than religious ones.

      "All of us -- as citizens and as a government -- have a moral responsibility to each other, and what we do together matters." J.R.E., 1/30/08

      by MaskedKat on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:03:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  gosh, (0+ / 0-)

        if only MLK had kept his religion to himself! how much better would we be!

        what if a politician is driven to end poverty because of his religious beliefs? or to end nuclear weapons? or protect the earth? I believe Al Gore's crusade on global warming is deeply tied to his religious beliefs of caring for God's creation.

  •  very thoughtful (5+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    vivacia, xndem, magi, serrano, loree920

    thanks for this. not that i expect the white folks here to really take seriously what you have to say. they are too busy dissing Obama than to understand the deep roots and reasons for minority homophobia.

    my bible study teacher was an ex-gay too. i believe it can happen for certain people. other people in my bible study were lesbians and believed God called them to be so. I think these views all have their own validity to them and condemning either one outright, as the extreme gay rights left and the extreme Christian fundie right tend to do, is just stupid.

    •  you need to understand (4+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      ihlin, sarac, MaskedKat, Cassandra Waites

      the deep damage that the religious ex-gay movement does to gay and lesbian youth.

      This think this story does a good job as exemplifying why was you dismiss as the "extreme gay left" is so opposed to the rhetoric of the ex-gay movement. We've heard it for years. We've lost countless thousands to suicide in no small part because of the hatred and false hope it fosters, and who knows how many more have struggle with years of self-hatred and self-abuse because of it.

      It may be possible for some individuals to repress their homosexuality. But it's not possible for the vast, vast majority of gays and lesbians, and the hateful rhetoric of the movement is beyond the pale.

      "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

      by dedmonds on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:30:44 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  That *any* group (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        dedmonds

        that tells you to pray part of yourself away causes.

        I have ADD. Not to the point of ever having needed actual academic accommodations, although I was on Ritalin through middle and high school. One C in my entire life, and that was a combination of undergrad senior spring and a medical problem.

        I entered college finally accepting who I was and determined to get through on my own without help unavailable to other students. I had spent years praying that God would take my ADD away, and had finally decided that since years of begging had no results, God had to have some reason for it. I shared this revelation with the leader of the Bible study I was in my first semester of college and was promptly told that God would take my ADD away if I just asked him.

        I can generally hide my ADD in public and just be identified as a bit odd, but it still hurts that some people think I should just pray a part of me away, even a not-very-visible part.

        I don't even want to contemplate being told to pray away affection for someone else, love for someone else. What I've been through was bad enough, but what the ex-gay movement does through rhetoric alone is worse even if their other activities are ignored.

    •  Oh, please. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      oldpro

      There's a big difference between choosing not to act on sexual attraction and changing orientation.

      I'm not even going to touch that "most white folks" comment. I'm too pissed.

      "All of us -- as citizens and as a government -- have a moral responsibility to each other, and what we do together matters." J.R.E., 1/30/08

      by MaskedKat on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:09:37 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  ihlin - - That's a racist comment (0+ / 0-)

      about your low expectations for "the white folks here".  Ironically, you make it in defense of Obama campaigning with an anti gay bigot.
      BTW - if an adult has voluntary sex with a member of his/her own sex as an adult (no coercion, over the age of consent, etc), he/she is either gay or bi.  Maybe he ain't done it in awhile, but he is gay or bi.  You can't get back your virginity, and you can't get back your heterosexuality.  Ask Larry Craig.

      John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

      by Barry in MIA on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:52:43 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  ok (0+ / 0-)

    How many diaries have been created about this issue just today alone??..That's the third diaries for today.

    •  As I said last time I saw a comment like this (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MaskedKat

      you should perhaps consider this a sign that your quick dismissal of this issue should be re-examined.

      It bothers a lot of us very deeply and very genuinely.

      "I do not equate my oppression with the oppression of blacks and Latinos. You can't. It is not the same struggle, but it is one struggle." Bob Kohler

      by dedmonds on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:26:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ever heard of sex slaves? (0+ / 0-)

    Racism, bigotry and sexism are racism, bigotry and sexism.
    They are wrong.
    Obama is wrong.

    •  Obama is wrong about what?? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      MaskedKat

      Please be more specific.

      John McCain: Like Hope, But Different.

      by malharden on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 11:53:48 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Wrong for campaigning with a man who - - - (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sephius1

        "declared war" on the "curse of homosexuality" - - actual quotes from this guy.  Substitute the name of any other minority group in that phrase, and tell me if it would be right to campaign with someone who said that about blacks, latins, the disabled, jews, muslims, hindus, etc.  By making excuses, you're just digging a deeper hole.

        John McCain says he'd be happy to see our troops in Iraq for another hundred years. I just can't agree with that.

        by Barry in MIA on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 01:57:19 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Exactly.... (0+ / 0-)

          ...my diary was just an attempt to show were some of this hatred of homosexuality comes from. I'm not excusing Obama decision, I just wanted kossacks to know how ingrained it is in the african american community, although I am seeing in the younger generation more tolerance.

    •  Well.... (0+ / 0-)

      Let's get a little perspective. McClurkin's homophobia is, imho, repugnant. I don't think that Obama is coming close to endorsing his views by associating with him. He has made it clear where he stands on GBLT issues. Should he expect to be judged by the company he keeps? Yes. Is it always fair for us to judge like that? No.

      "All of us -- as citizens and as a government -- have a moral responsibility to each other, and what we do together matters." J.R.E., 1/30/08

      by MaskedKat on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:12:16 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I fail to see your point on "neutering" (0+ / 0-)

    What has that got to do with anti-homosexual prejudicies?

    People don't protect their own sexuality with anti-gay attitudes, they protect against their own sexuality that way.

    "The United States will always do the right thing, after trying all the other options." ~ Winston Churchill

    by Gregory Wonderwheel on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:11:02 PM PDT

  •  Please Tell Me Why (0+ / 0-)

    when Kossacks who support Obama read this

    ...Bush masterfully tapped that homophobic sentiment in 2000 in part with McClurkin and even more masterfully in 2004 again with McClurkin and the top gun mega black preachers in Ohio and Florida. He tapped it so masterfully that Bush's naked pander to gay bashing with the GOP spawned anti-gay marriage initiative in Ohio did much to win over a big chunk of black evangelical leaning voter to Bush...

    they're not outraged by the link between Bush's behavior and Obama's?

    The implication is that Obama's "pandering to gay bashing."  This time the name "Bush" appears in such a paragraph.  Couldn't the name "Obama" appear the next time such a paragraph is written?

    They burn our children in their wars and grow rich beyond the dreams of avarice.

    by Limelite on Tue Oct 23, 2007 at 12:28:59 PM PDT

  •  weak excuse (0+ / 0-)

    Your whole essay on the "why" of black men's anti-homosexuality is silly pop-psy without meaning. Castration or feminie complexes don't explain prejudices but the unthinking acceptance of the bigoted strictures of the bible does explain them. What's needed is for black men to wake up and think of the wrongness of their positions and to educate themselves about others. Whites and Blacks who believe in the literal interpetation of the bible both make the same ignorant mistakes for the same reasons.

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