Daily Kos

Contractors Eye California Fires, See $$

Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 09:17:07 AM PDT

Rush diary here - looking at the fires in a whole new way. Reading an excerpt of Naomi Klein's latest book Disaster Capitalism in this month's Harpers can prime anybody for viewing the fires through the eyes of a disaster capitalist.

Today SFGate runs this AP story over conflicting statements of idling, grounded firefighting aircraft in Southern California. Gov Schwarzeneggar says the planes couldn't fly because of the strong winds. A trade industry contractor's liaison says beauacratic red tape kept them grounded. And the forestry department says the fire spotters are trained to work with National Guard pilots, where only Marines were available. Besides FUD, what is this AP story saying?

Well here's what we know:

Thomas Eversole, executive director of the American Helicopter Services & Aerial Firefighting Association, a Virginia-based nonprofit that serves as a liaison between helicopter contractors and federal agencies, said valuable time was lost.

And here's the timeline:

The first of the 15 or so fires started around midnight Saturday. By Sunday afternoon, fires were raging in Los Angeles, San Diego and Orange counties.

At the request of firefighters on the ground, at 4 p.m. Sunday the state Office of Emergency Services asked the National Guard to supply four helicopters. Under state rules, a California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection "spotter" must accompany each military and National Guard helicopter to coordinate water drops.

And here's the conditions:

The spotters have 24 hours to report for duty, and it took nearly all that time for them and the National Guard crews to assemble. By the time they were ready to go, the winds had made it unsafe to fly.

The helicopters finally got off the ground Tuesday.

And who is saying what, regarding the idling planes:

  • Blaming beauracratic red tape is U.S. Rep. Brian Bilbray, U.S. Rep. Dana Rohrabacher "The weight of bureaucracy kept these planes from flying, not the heavy winds"
  • Blaming high winds is Forestry Department Director Ruben Grijalva, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger:

    "Anyone that is complaining about the planes just wants to complain," Schwarzenegger replied angrily to a question Wednesday. "The fact is that we could have all the planes in the world here — we have 90 aircraft here and six that we got especially from the federal government — and they can't fly because of the wind."

  • Blaming the new C-130 military planes which have "yet to be outfitted with tanks needed to carry thousands of gallons of fire retardant, though that was promised four years ago" was well, hard to say who was blaming the inadequate equipment. But the delay in outfitting the new firefighting C-130s with fire-retardent tanks didn't stop California from retiring the old C-130s, which had tanks:

    New tanks were designed, but they failed to fit into the latest C-130s. Designers were ordered back to the drawing board. Republican Rep. Elton Gallegly said Congress was assured the new tanks would be ready by 2003.

    Four years later, the U.S. Forest Service and Air Force have yet to approve the revised design. Air Force spokeswoman Capt. Paula Kurtz said "technical and design difficulties" have delayed the program.

    Rohrabacher and Gallegly are angered by the delay, which has left no C-130s capable of fighting fires on the West Coast. The last of the older-model C-130s with an original tank was retired by the California National Guard last year.

    "It's an absolute tragedy, an unacceptable tragedy," Gallegly said.

    The situation meant that rather than deploying C-130s from inside the state, Schwarzenegger was forced to ask Secretary of Defense Robert Gates to call in the six remaining older C-130s from other states as far away as North Carolina.

    None of them began fighting the fires until Wednesday afternoon.

So what can we conclude? It does look like the fire officials were slow in approving the planes. But why couldn't the plane manufacturers equip firefighting aircraft with fire-retardent tanks that fit the planes? And why did the state retire the older firefighting planes before the new ones were ready? All I know is Reps Bilbray and Rohrabacher and Elton Gallegly are quoted in this story, as are other state, industry and fire officials.

Before calling foul, we remember the fallacy lesson of post hoc ergo propter hoc: FUD doesn't prove corruption and graft. But there's no fallacy in saying corruption and graft thrive in a FUD environment.

Poll

reason the planes were grounded:

18%2 votes
27%3 votes
0%0 votes
54%6 votes
0%0 votes

| 11 votes | Vote | Results

Tags: graft, California Wildfires (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 19 comments

  •  Must run to work (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    cotterperson, 4Freedom, 7November

    Had to get this out. And prayers to our Southern California friends.

  •  Burn LA down to save it? (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    catfish, 4Freedom

    Ironic, like the earthquake, disasters get credited with growth.....

    "We will now proceed to construct the socialist order."

    by 7November on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 09:21:59 AM PDT

  •  Of course (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    catfish, cotterperson, 4Freedom

    So they can mow down more habitat for cement and cheap-ass McMansions that don't have stucco walls and tile roofing.

    •  That article is wrong (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      caliberal, vcmvo2

      First, wood shake roofing has been illegal in new construction in California for at least a decade. In some jurisdictions it's been illegal for a lot longer.

      Fireproof roofing is a good idea, and the transition has saved a lot of housing. But, it doesn't make a house immune to fire.

      Most houses in California are stucco. Stucco houses will burn, under the right circumstances. If sparks can get under the eaves or through any kind of ventillation, the house will still burn. If it is right next door to a house that is fully engulfed, the radiant heat will still ignite a stucco house. If the windows fail, as they sometimes do in these fires (especially vinyl windows), sparks get inside and the flammable inside of the house will burn, burning it down from the inside out. Indeed, even if the windows don't fail, radiant heat through single-paned windows can ignite draperies inside, with no spark.

      Building codes have been very successful in saving some communities in California. Some jurisdictions are very strict and this has paid off. Every jurisdiction in every state that is vulnerable to wildfires should adopt these practices for new construction. It helps.

      The new houses will almost certainly be an improvement for fire defensibilty over the old.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 10:03:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Ummm (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    catfish, 4Freedom

    It was the wind. Bilbray and others are just setting the groundwork for privatizing firefighting. Those helicopters couldn't fly for a couple days because of the wind, neither could most fixed wing aircraft. C-130s might have been able to, but remember, they weren't just going to be cruising at a safe altitude, they have to fly very low, in hilly country, with crap visibility.

    Sell a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man how to fish, you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.

    by Hannibal on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 09:30:58 AM PDT

  •  Diary falling on the rec list (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    4Freedom

    This was either obvious or of no interest...

    •  Frankly, the suggestion (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      caliberal, vcmvo2, 4Freedom

      that the fire department let the structures burn to make money for construction companies is offensive and insulting.

      Besides, it ignores the interests of the insurance companies, which prefer not to pay to rebuild houses.

      Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

      by elfling on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 10:06:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You're reading a lot into the diary (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        4Freedom

        Of all the conflicting statements highlighted in the AP Story, you're picking up one, actually you're conflating two, attributing it to the diarist and assuming malicious intent.

        WWII created a lot of jobs, a lot of honest jobs.

        Read the Naomi Klein article. Was the Tsunami a conspiracy? It was a natural disaster which created an environment/aftermath where corruption could thrive. (FUD).

        Any chaotic situation, war, natural disasters, creates FUD.

        Take a deep breath please and either read the AP story or re-read the diary.

  •  The implication of this diary (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    catfish, caliberal, vcmvo2

    Is that no planes could deploy at all until those National Guard aircraft could fly.

    This is RIDICULOUS.

    Los Angeles County has its own firefighting air power. They can deploy them immediately, without waiting for CalFire.

    http://www.fire.lacounty.gov/...

    The Air Operations Section is comprised of 52 dedicated and hard working uniformed and civilian personnel. With a very humble beginning in 1957, including one pilot and one mechanic, the section has grown to what it is today, a leader in the fire service aviation industry.

    Today’s fleet of aircraft consists of 3 Sikorsky S-70 Firehawks (civilian versions of the UH-60 Blackhawk), 4 Bell 412’s (twin-engine, four bladed Huey’s) and a Bell 206 JetRanger. This high powered squadron is a far cry from the original Bell 47 that was used by Roland Barton to start the program almost 50 years ago. Through the years, the section has seen the likes of the Bell 204, the Bell 205, the UH-1F, along with the current makes and models. Each new model brought an increase in capabilities and accomplishments.

    The Sikorsky Firehawk is equipped with a 1000 gallon water tank that uses a "constant flow " delivery system as compared to the "two door" 360 gallon "LA County" tank on the medium category Bell 412. The Bell 206 is used for command, mapping, FLIR (Forward Looking Infrared), photography and HELCO (Helicopter Coordinator) duties. Both the Sikorsky and the Bell 412 are also used as Air Squads in the county’s EMS system. They can respond in minutes to the field and transport patients to the nearest trauma center or receiving hospital as the situation dictates.

    The section responds anywhere in the geographical boundaries of the county, some 4000 square miles. With a population of over 10 million people, Los Angeles County has every type of terrain imaginable. The late Jerry Dunphy, a longtime LA television newscaster, used to open his broadcasts with the famous line, "From the desert to the sea to all of Southern California." In addition to the vast stretches of desert and beautiful ocean coastline, Los Angeles County also has miles and miles of mountainous, rugged terrain. The famous Santa Monica mountains, the San Gabriel Mountains with Mt. Baldy (10064’ MSL) and the numerous foothill stretches in and around the county provide for scenic vistas and recreation areas that draw millions of visitors year after year.

    In addition to the mainland portion of Los Angeles County, the Air Operations Section also responds to Catalina Island. Catalina Island, although a private/public piece of land some 25 miles south of Long Beach, is served in its entirety by the Los Angeles County Fire Department. The Air Operations Section responds to all types of calls for service on the island. Examples of the more common types of calls include: brush fires, scuba diving incidents, trauma calls, maternity calls, medical incidents, searches, rescues, and downed aircraft.

    Those aircraft would have been available immediately though they were probably (and appropriately) deployed to the Malibu fire before they would've been sent to Orange or San Diego Counties.

    As far as I am aware, Orange County does not own any of its own firefighting aircraft. San Diego does not have a county fire department (disbanded in the 70's for budgetary reasons) and only recently purchased a helicopter.

    Here is an editorial about Measure D, an Orange County vote on sending more funding to the fire authority in 2005. The measure lost - 73% no.

    CalFire's mission encompasses the entire state, with an emphasis on areas that have no people and thus no local fire departments. They are good guys and work to put out fires quickly and completely whereever they occur. But they cannot have 15 minute response time to every urban area - we don't fund them to that level.

    If you want people on 1-2 hour standby, that means you have to be willing to pay them to stand around for the rest of the year, when there isn't a fire.

    CalFire has learned from sad experience the importance of Safety First when deploying these aircraft, because there have been crashes. Crashes not only endanger the pilot and aircraft, but they require the use of other pilots and other aircraft for search and rescue. The net effect is that the fire is not fought better by simply having aircraft in the air - only the right aircraft under the right conditions.

    Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

    by elfling on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 09:57:00 AM PDT

    •  Nice accusatory comment (0+ / 0-)

      there's useful info in the body of your comment but the subject line is all off.

      Chill the eff out and stop being so defensive. As the AP story shows, there is a cloud of misinformation with many conflicting statements (Republican Reps blaming slow firefighters is one example.)

      This diary was an opportunity for crowd-source reporting to clear the misinformation. The information in your comment would help if you weren't being such a jerk the subject line.

      •  I'm not sure what your intent was (0+ / 0-)

        so perhaps I misunderstood you. I'm sorry.

        As a suggestion, if you wanted more community reporting and weren't sure of the facts, perhaps you might have stated that more directly. You used two tags, one of which was graft, and your diary specifically uses the words graft and corruption in association with the aircraft. Under "here's what we know", you only quote one guy out of Virginia, someone who incidentally works for an organization dedicated to using outsourced aircraft. My impression when I read it was that you came at this story with a particular conclusion, that more aircraft should have been used, and that they weren't was evidence of some sort of corruption or misconduct at the state level.

        In my experience, rush diaries never seem to work out. Sometimes it's better to wait a day or two. Your mileage may vary.

        Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

        by elfling on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 03:31:54 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  Thanks for this diary - I have been wondering all (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    catfish

    day about the snippets I had read on this, and you put them together very well.

    Good diary.

    If all do not join now to save the good old ship of the Union this voyage nobody will have a chance to pilot her on another voyage. Abraham Lincoln

    by 4Freedom on Fri Oct 26, 2007 at 01:26:01 PM PDT

    •  Hah - thanks (0+ / 0-)

      It was a rushed diary, the story popped out to me so I threw it up here at dkos hoping it would get more attention.

      Glad you understood it.

      But commenters misinterpreted it (and apparently didn't bother to read the title, the concluding graphs etc.)

      This place it's just too hard to a) get a diary up fast enough b) inject any quality into said diary.

      As you can tell, I'm frustrated. Thanks for listening.

Permalink | 19 comments