Daily Kos

COLUMN: The Biggest Vote You've Never Heard About - DEMS STEP UP

by davidsirota

Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:44:49 AM PDT

Note: If you are tired of major issues like this getting no coverage in the face of a media blackout and thus you would like to see my nationally syndicated column in your local paper, see the bottom of this post on what to do to make that happen. - D

Back in 2005, our Congress trampled the majority of Americans who opposed the Central American Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA) and passed the pact with the strong backing of K Street lobbyists. This was a victory of the Money Party over the People Party - of buypartisanship over bipartisanship. Now, as I show in my nationally syndicated column out today, congressional Republicans and the Bush administration are trying to trample the people of Costa Rica - using threats and intimidation to try to force voters there to approve CAFTA in a national referendum this Sunday, October 7th.

It is very possible you haven't heard anything about what's going on. Despite the fact that Costa Rica is one of the oldest and most stable democracies in the Western Hemisphere, and despite the fact that this referendum could be the first time a lobbyist-written trade pact is rejected so publicly on the global stage, most American newspapers have barely covered the upcoming vote - even as protests about CAFTA's worker, environmental and health care provisions continue to grow in Costa Rica. And - big shocker - I have not seen a single nationally syndicated columnist even mention this truly monumental vote this weekend - monumental not just for Central America, but for our own country as well (FYI - It's possible I just haven't seen something that's been written, but I read a lot of stuff, and so if I've missed a syndicated columnist who has written on this, let me know - the point, however, stands: this has gotten very, very little media coverage).

The celebrity-obsessed punditocracy barricaded in Washington is more interested in covering what presidential candidates wear on their lapels, regurgitating the latest cocktail party gossip, and penning puff pieces about presidential campaign aides than, you know, major economic events with both domestic and international consequences for working-class people. Apparently, "reporting" and "journalism" has gone out of style, though that shouldn't be a surprise. As Jeff Faux recounted in his book The Global Class War, the Washington Post acknowledged that media decision-makers had made a conscious choice to blackout any real debate over NAFTA back in the early 1990s when it was being debated. The punditocracy, in other words, has made a habit out of refusing to seriously cover trade and globalization in any kind of fair way. This is one of the reasons I am thrilled to be writing a column - because it means I can help amplify the stories, positions and beliefs of the vast majority of Americans that are so regularly drowned out by the media.

Make no mistake about it: Whatever happens with this weekend's vote, what we are seeing in Costa Rica both from our government and voters there is nothing short of monumental. Reuters reports that the latest opinion poll shows "shows Costa Ricans rejecting CAFTA 55 percent to 43 percent." The fact that it is even close is stunning, because - as my column shows - the Bush administration has mobilized the State Department and Republicans in Congress in a campaign of fear down in Costa Rica - one that seems eerily consistent with a scandalous memo that recently leaked out of the official pro-CAFTA campaign. These business-backed forces are threatening economic retributions against Costa Rica - threats that are basically lies, because they don't have much leverage to make them a reality as this Public Citizen fact sheet shows.

Whether you care about Costa Rica or not, what's going on down there has implications that go far beyond Central America. What we are seeing is that, at the same time GOP voters say they are sick of lobbyist-written trade policies like CAFTA, the Republican White House is nonetheless so corrupt that it is going to bat on behalf of the GOP's pharmaceutical, insurance and telecommunications donors that inserted language into the deal making sure countries like Costa Rica privatize those services there. The arm-twisting shows that despite all the Iraq-related criticism that this administration doesn't know how to play diplomatic hardball, this White House is willing and able to get what it wants when it has its corporate donors' interests in mind.

And when it comes to trade policies in general, the same can be said for both Republicans and Democrats. Whether it was Democrats trading votes for campaign contributions in order to help the GOP pass CAFTA in the first place, Democratic lawmakers going down to Costa Rica to echo GOP threats against voters there, Democrats now trying to pass a whole new package of NAFTAs - the global class war is truly buypartisan.

Go read the whole column here and let me know what you think. And if you'd like to see my column regularly in your local paper, use this directory to find the contact info for your local editorial page editors. Get get in touch with them and point them to my Creators Syndicate site.

UPDATE: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT), my old boss, has a great diary up at the Huffington Post about his recent trip to Costa Rica, the upcoming vote down there on CAFTA, and how the right-wing attack machine has unloaded on him for pushing fair trade.

UPDATE II:This is what's known as solidarity:

"Washington, D.C. - U.S. Representatives Raúl M. Grijalva and Linda Sánchez today announced plans to introduce legislation to make permanent trade benefits for nearly two dozen countries, including Costa Rica. This announcement comes at the culmination of a nearly two year campaign by the Bush administration to use the false threat of trade preference expiration to pressure Costa Rica into ratifying the Central America Free Trade Agreement (CAFTA). Bush’s trade representative, Susan Schwab, made this threat again on Wednesday – the last day before a three-day media blackout in Costa Rica ahead of Sunday’s referendum on CAFTA."

Great news. This is how Democrats should be acting - they shouldn't be running from Bush, they should be running at him and going to bat for the progressive movement like Grijalva and Sanchez.

Cross-posted from Working Assets

Tags: cafta, free trade, nafta, globalization, Costa Rica, Recommended, shameless self promotion (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 123 comments

  •  Costa Rica is perhaps the (86+ / 0-)

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    crown jewel of the Western hemisphere in terms of biodiversity.  I really hope their citizens show the good sense to reject this travesty of an agreement.

    "[R]ather high-minded, if not a bit self-referential"--The Washington Post.

    by Geekesque on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:46:47 AM PDT

    •  Also the crown jewel of central (49+ / 0-)

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      and south American social democracy.

      "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

      by Salo on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:50:09 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  It probably all depends.... (1+ / 0-)

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      Geekesque

      on who's counting the votes.

      Anybody know how that's done in Costa Rica?  Have they been infiltrated by Diebold yet?

      "The meek shall inherit nothing" - F. Zappa

      by cometman on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:15:41 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Costa Rica disbanded their army in 1948 (11+ / 0-)

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      They have tried to use their resources to make life better for their citizens instead of blowing them up.

      It seems like industrialists see this country ripe for take over through economic means and bullying.

      I hope they reject this agreement too.  

      Visit EENR blog for Progressives

      by pioneer111 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 01:10:12 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I interned there last summer (11+ / 0-)

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      Odysseus, GayHillbilly, Bensdad, slatsg, ichibon, annefrank, JanL, sravaka, FreeTradeIsYourEpitaph, rchipevans, thursdays child

      I wrote about my homestay family at my blog, but I'm pasting in the essay below. It really makes me angry that my family there might lose the health care and government assistance that keeps them afloat, because they can't make enough on their own even though they work very hard:

      8-13-06 ¿Qué paso, mi amor?

      This is how the members of my Costa Rican family often ask each other how they are, "¿Qué paso, mi amor?" What’s happening, my love? When I think about them, this is the phrase that stands out. Not just because they say it now and again, but because there’s a lot of love in this house and it’s made my time here very pleasant.

      Sometimes when I wake up late, the first sound I hear is William in the next room playing with Maria José before he goes to work. Gently teasing, joking, trading nonsense sounds and animal noises with her. I might hear Justin join them if I’m just moving really slow that morning. Then there are three different tones of morning-softened Spanish filtering through the thin walls. It beats all heck out of my alarm clock at home.

      You can’t really have much audio privacy here. Guiselle informed me a couple weeks ago that I talk in my sleep, for example, giving me a good ribbing about it in the process. But she’s good with the deadpan joke, it took a minute to catch it. But she can’t understand what I say then anymore than I can catch the full scope of a normal pace conversation here, especially if it’s muffled. So there’s some privacy of the spoken word, but no hiding tone and emotion.

      Not that all is perfect. Maria José and Justin, at 3 and 8, sometimes take turns purposely irritating each other. Kids, you know. And this is also a household with deep political divisions. Guiselle is a lifelong fan of the Deportiva Saprisa soccer league, while the rest of the family roots for the Liga Deportiva Alajuelense, or the LDA. With the exception of Maria José, of course, who’s a bit young to have an opinion on this all-important question.

      Soccer is somewhat of a universal language outside the United States, as anyone with the barest interest in world affairs can easily discover. One day when I was trying to explain a news story I’d read to Guiselle, I realized that I’d forgotten what the Spanish word for Britain was & she wasn’t getting any of my clues. Talking about a country with a queen here might well evoke Spain before Britain. Justin was there and after I’d named any number of political and popular figures to hopefully prompt the correct country, it turned out that David Beckham’s name was sufficient by itself to call the word Angleterre from him at once. If I knew more about soccer teams, I bet the kids would suddenly turn into living geography texts.

      The family property is both home and business, with most of the 2 hectares here devoted to a stand of well-tended, shade grown coffee. William takes care of the farm for about four hours every day, six days a week. He plants new coffee to replace 20-30 year old trees that have tired out, cuts back trees that have been growing for 5-6 years so they can resprout and refresh themselves, weeds between the rows and keeps an eye on the many other food plants they grow here. They eat a lot of root and vine vegetables planted between the rows of coffee, at the edges of the farm, by the side of the house. While many of the shade trees are nitrogen fixing, there are also a lot of fruit trees here whose produce Guiselle often turns into juice or smoothies. When William walks through the farm, he keeps an eye out for anything that looks ready to harvest and bring back to the house.

      William also has a second job, often working about five hours a day, six days a week making pilas for 80,000 colones (about $160) per month. A pila is a hand made, tile-lined sink often used as a wash or utility sink. The pila is generally kept in either the back of a house under an open porch or in the laundry room. In this house, the back room with the pila is a roughly cement floored, all purpose storage and laundry room that I’d call an attached garage, except that it was never intended to house a car. The pila is a useful companion to the type of washing machines that are commonly available here, which are more like the washing machines available in the U.S. decades ago, the ones that my grandmother supplemented with a wringer or washboard. Here, it’s the pila and an oval, rubber laundry brush. William made the one here especially for Guiselle and the family.

      However, William hasn’t always had to have a job outside the farm. Before the collapse of the Coopepueblos cooperative and the closing of the local beneficio, or raw coffee processing plant, two years ago, this cafetal produced around 50 finegas (somewhere around 100 pounds, or 20 large baskets) of coffee per year. But last year, they couldn’t afford to buy manure for the coffee trees, which is particularly important when they’re young or resprouting as some of the trees will often be in a given year. The loss of much of their income is what forced him to take work away from home and the combination of the lack of fertilizer and adequate time to maintain the trees devastated their harvest. Last year, the farm produced only 13 finegas of raw coffee. This year, he expects around 25 finegas of coffee and perhaps that the farm will be back to full production in two or three years when more of the trees mature.

      Guiselle supplements the family income by sewing cloth shoulder bags and small home decorations. She sells her work through a network of friends and acquaintances, sometimes getting orders from clients of her sister’s in San Jose. When the sewing machine isn’t going, she’s busy all day. Food has to be prepared from scratch for every meal, lunches made to carry, and a house that’s fairly open to the world and three kids that wander in and out kept clean. Laundry, as mentioned, is a little harder to do than most Americans are probably used to. As of nearly two months ago, she also took responsibility for the family’s first paying guest, me.

      I can understand Guiselle’s Spanish better than most people’s here. She’s gotten used to working with the limits of my vocabulary and uses her best help-with-homework voice when she’s moving into new rhetorical territory. We’ve had longer and more in-depth conversations than I would have guessed I was capable of participating in, getting to know each other in the process.

      Guiselle works at being one of the most cheerful, patient and good-natured people I’ve ever known. She’d doubtless credit this to her devout Catholic faith, which is a strong and steady force in her life. I’ve never known faith to guarantee these traits, but she certainly isn’t happy because she’s oblivious.

      When the family took me with them to the local fair celebrating the annexation of Guanacaste province, Guiselle took me to see the bull riding because she likes to see the animals and thought it would interest me. After the bull quickly and inevitably throws its rider, the dozens of men who’ve been standing around the edge of the bull ring set in baiting the bull, climbing up the slats when it starts barreling around the sides and sometimes getting together in groups to rope and subdue it. She knew that many of the men in the ring were drunk and she worries about the day when Justin will be old enough to get mixed up in the same kind of behavior. She didn’t stay long after the mood in the ring turned meaner and some of the men started taking even more extravagant risks.

      The family also follows the news on both Costa Rican and Panamanian stations and are probably about as well informed about the big events of the day as the typical American news viewer. Or maybe moreso in certain particulars.

      In the absence of the world’s Friedmans, Matthewses, O’Reillys and Colmeses, William and Guiselle’s main concern about the wars in the middle east is that this sort of violence will just create more violence and could get out of hand. I’m even now formulating a strategy for outsourcing American foreign policy to farmers in Coto Brus, Costa Rica. It’ll be a brilliant plan with cost-savings in the thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars. Stay tuned.

      They also keenly watch environmental news and were eager to tell me as much as they could about features they watched while I was here on the environmental destruction wreaked by precious metals mining in Panama and a program on global warming that discussed the potential for wars over water. Apparently, no one from Exxon Mobil ™ is interested in paying to feed nonsense climate propaganda to Costa Ricans, so William and Guiselle get science news from interviews with scientists and are quite sensibly worried about the sort of world their children will grow up in.

      Andreína, 14, goes to the local collegio, for what would be junior high and high school aged students in the U.S. When Guiselle was growing up, the nearest collegio was a couple towns away and her parents didn’t think it was safe to send their daughters that far from home every day. But Andreína will get at least a high school education and right now, she qualifies for 9,000 colones (about $18) worth of student assistance per month, though that lately hasn’t managed to cover the cost of replacing the uniforms she’s starting to grow out of. She enjoys social studies and her language classes and hopes to be a Spanish teacher someday if she can go to a university.

      Justin is in primary school, where for years now all students get English language classes every year. He’s also lucky because this year, his school is starting typing lessons. Though the collegio has computer classes, they haven’t managed to swing typing lessons yet, so the younger kids will have a jump on that.

      While all the students have years of bilingual education, there are very few adults in the community they can practice with outside of their English teachers. They don’t have textbooks or a language lab where they can hear the accents of native speakers, only the notes they take in class and a Spanish-English dictionary if the family can afford one. So when the husband and wife Peace Corps team, who will be teaching evening English courses here for the next two years, first introduced themselves in English to the collegio students, they weren’t understood at all.

      Maria José is still young enough to qualify for four good-sized packs of powdered milk per month, possibly until age 6. However, each area only has a certain number of slots for children receiving this assistance, so there’s no guarantee that it will continue for her next year. Also, the Costa Rican government itself must have had a bit of a rough winter, because for a few months earlier this year they weren’t able to deliver either the student assistance or powdered milk to qualifying families here. Last month, the government caught up with their accounts and made up the difference.

      They don’t have a culture of shaming and denigrating poverty here, so Guiselle wasn’t in the least timid to tell me about the help they receive. She didn’t hesitate at all to give me permission to write about it, either. And maybe that’s helped by the fact that they don’t seem to be treated or talked about like undeserving wretches by the government.

      I remember vividly when Howard Dean, who first started his presidential bid with the hope of highlighting healthcare issues, would finish off the portion of his stump speech on healthcare with the reminder that "... even the Costa Ricans" all have healthcare. Well, they do. Their national health insurance program costs this family 3,600 colones (about $7.20) per month for total coverage, including dental care. There’s even local ambulance service to take emergency cases to the hospital 13 miles away in San Vito. I’m told that if a person or family can’t afford coverage, they have to be treated in the emergency room anyway, though there isn’t much of a collection enforcement system if they can’t pay later. If you’re sick here, one way or another, you can get healthcare without putting your entire life in hock.

      Even with the catastrophic loss of their normal harvest income for the last two years, no one in this house worries that they can’t afford to see a doctor if they’re sick. They say, well, if it’s worse tomorrow we’ll go to the doctor or visit the hospital.

      Granted, when Justin had another bout of stomach trouble last month, the first ultrasound they scheduled him for had to be canceled because the machine needed repairs. But the following week, they had him in again and were able to verify that everything was indeed alright with him. When Maria José had the flu and couldn’t keep anything down, Guiselle had packets of the electrolyte solution used to prevent dehydration during excessive vomiting or diarrhea and they were able to take her to the doctor to get what seemed to be fairly effective medication. Diarrhea is the number one killer of young children in the developing world, but I would guess that very few children die of it here in Costa Rica.

      So that’s my family here and I’m going to miss them when I leave. But they ordered a telephone in February, so with luck they’ll have a number I can call before the summer is out.

      Get your natasha fix at Pacific Views!

      by natasha on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 02:50:31 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Tip Jar (136+ / 0-)

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    by davidsirota on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:47:04 AM PDT

  •  maybe the MSB will (6+ / 0-)

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    enough already, farleftcoast, ichibon, annefrank, Russ Jarmusch, Predictor

    cover it now you posted this here.

    "The answer is to end our reliance on carbon-based fuels." Al Gore, 7/17/08

    by TomP on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:50:55 AM PDT

  •  Free Trade Deals with Union-Busting Colombia (22+ / 0-)

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    are moving forward in Congress now. Steny Hoyer is solidly behind free trade with Colombia, a country that has a history of murdering union leaders and human rights abuses.

    Free trade with Colombia must be stopped in Congress. They need to stop the abuses before we sign any deals.

    And good for the people of Costa Rica. They have a right to choose what's good for them.

    "It's the planet, stupid."

    by FishOutofWater on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:58:53 AM PDT

  •  Consequences. (0+ / 0-)

    Suppose a bill were up for a vote in the Democratic controlled US HOR's that dismantled the Canadian Healthcare System.

    Outraged? You should be, because it means they don't support it here

    "It's a race to decide who the British goverment will follow blindly for the next 4 years" Kennedy/Kerry '08

    by Salo on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 08:59:15 AM PDT

  •  Since you ask, tired of self promotion but whatev (3+ / 1-)

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    claude

    "If you are tired of major issues like this and thus you would like to see my nationally syndicated column in your local paper, see the bottom of this post on what to do to make that happen."

    Ugh...what a headline.

    FYI Miami Herald and many other papers way ahead of your column.

    Leaked-memo scandal shakes up CAFTA vote

    A diary about Costa Rica and the CAFTA vote and some real details on the Costa Rica economy would have been more interesting vs. a screed about a "celebrity-obsessed punditocracy barricaded in Washington" which is a bit of straw man.

    Some journalist research on which US lobbying firms and which US politicians were pushing it and why maybe, but that would require something more they keyboard work.

    by AzulDias on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:01:40 AM PDT

  •  Got a kick out of this (11+ / 0-)

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    Inspired by your diary, I took a look at the local papers in Spanish, but didn't find much of interest. The Tico Times, however, leads with the story of a very funny dream . . .

    Elections official Max Esquivel had a nightmare about the referendum on the Central American Free-Trade Agreement with the United States (CAFTA).

    He dreamed that the results of Sunday's vote hinged on 10 ballots from Isla del Coco, a 36-hour boat ride from mainland Costa Rica. Worried about theft or fraud, he clutched the ballots during the entire ride.

    Those ballots would be from the rangers who live for extended periods on Cocos Island. I visited it once, taking that 36-hour boat ride on a liveaboard for a diving expedition, and have tremendous respect for the men and women who work to protect it.

    Costa Rica has a very highly educated populace and I have no doubt they'll make the right decision for their country. It will be interesting to see what it is.

    by cadejo4 on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:05:38 AM PDT

  •  LIke here, the powerful commercial interests that (4+ / 0-)

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    enough already, ichibon, Reepicheep, Tanya

    will benefit from CAFTA are going to pull out all stops. Domestic and international capital interests will obfuscate, lie, manipulate and if necessary steal the vote. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

    by IndySteve on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:08:02 AM PDT

  •  Senate CAFTA roll call (11+ / 0-)

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    is HERE for anyone that's interested.  Sad to see that Bingaman (NM) and Wyden (OR) who have been rock solid in opposing the military adventures in the middle east stumbled badly on this one.  As did the women from WA who while not a perfect record on the Iraq/Iran votes have been better than Sen Clinton.  Then there are the DINOs: Feinstein, the two Nelson amigos, Carper and Pryor.  This was one piece of crap legislation that had enough GOP opposition that it could have been defeated so, both parties get to own this baby.

    What FDR giveth; GWB taketh away.

    by Marie on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:14:31 AM PDT

  •  Trade agreements and the economy are going to be (0+ / 0-)

    major issues in the 08 elections. Thanks for bringign this info. Can we get this on the rec list.

    To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men~~ Abraham Lincoln

    by Tanya on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:14:37 AM PDT

  •  Bush administration shooting itself in the foot (0+ / 0-)

    Its credibility is so shot, every initiative is now seen as an instrument of American imperialism.

    And now we've got smaller countries ganging up on the U.S., determined to demonstrate to the rest of the world they are willing to put up to our bully tactics.

    Free trade deserves a more intelligent discussion than it's capable of getting under such circumstances.  And - as such - the Bush administration is shooting itself in the foot.

    We're pro-choice on everything! - Libertarian slogan

    by CA Libertarian on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:18:22 AM PDT

  •  The LA Times has done a good job (6+ / 0-)

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    on this. They have covered the Costa Rica protests, and the dirty tricks squads down there that obviously went to the K-K-Karl Rove school of politics.

    Now I'm off to convince the Times to carry your column.

    We are living in an interminable succession of absurdities imposed by the myopic logic of short-term thinking. Jacques Cousteau

    by supak on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:27:57 AM PDT

  •  more NAFTA-CAFTA nonsense (2+ / 0-)

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    ILDem, keeplaughing

    This whole premise of NAFTA having a negative effect on the US economy (or any important positive effect) is a huge pile of crap. And CAFTA is even less significant. It's only significance is that it's the issue where unions say "If you love me, You'll vote against this."

    The presence of the anti-NAFTA people was that it would suck manufacturing jobs into Mexico. And Detroit's manufacturing would move to Mexico. Of course there were already treaty provisions even preferential treatment to manufacturing in Northern Mexico, but everybody sort of ignored that. The giant sucking noise didn't go to Mexico, but to China. (People act like NAFTA is to blame for the growth of Chinese manufacturing. Hah!) Nor was Detroit able to save themselves by moving manufaturing to Mexico - the Mexican portion of car manufacturing didn't grow at all.

    And as for CAFTA, what is there in the economies there that's going to have any effect on the US? CAFTA's got to be the phoniest issue in politics - it's just a religious doctrine test.

    There are big trade displacement issues - American workers need real help, not phony appeasement over meaningless votes like CAFTA.

    Any serious student of economics (not employed by a union affiliated group) will tell you that free trade operates just like technological innovation - it puts people out of work, but makes other more productive use of society's work as a whole, and is often of disproportionate benefit to those who own the machines (or the multi-national who owns or contracts with the cheaper, overseas factory), but the solution is not to block increased productivity but to take advantage of it and win th broader battles on a just society - like providing universal health care, making the welathy pay their share of tax, etc.

    by Themistokles on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:33:24 AM PDT

    •  Thank you (24+ / 0-)

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      Thank you for giving us the line that has been jammed down America's throat for the last 15 years - a line that the public is finally starting to reject as the facts roll in.

      A simple read of economic literature like Jeff Faux's book or Sherrod Brown's book will show what a bunch of ditto-headish nonsense your rhetoric really is.

      by davidsirota on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 09:37:28 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Exactly...progressive views aren't about blocking (14+ / 0-)

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        all trade. That is a Conservative red herring and/or strawman.

        We are about managing trade and establishing a framework that works to benefit PEOPLE, not just profits. And not to destroy the planet while pursuing mindless globalism.

        by IndySteve on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 10:11:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  China v. NAFTA and CAFTA (1+ / 0-)

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        keeplaughing

        I'm willing to concede that it is possible for a trade relationship like ours with China could have a deleterious effect because of a combination of a strong interventionist government, including government ownership of industries, their obvious efforts to control the terms of trade through currency manipulation, and their powerful economy.
          But CAFTA, you've got to be kidding!

        by Themistokles on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 10:41:45 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Oh, come one, every country uses currency (2+ / 0-)

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          FightTheFuture, AmericanRiverCanyon

          manipulation, to give an example, just as every country intervenes in the economy - those are the only two means of preventing business cycles, are they not. So, if these are the reasons a free trade agreement could have deleterious effects, then every free trade agreement will have such deleterious effects.

          Omne malum nascens facile opprimitur, inveteratum fit plerumque robustius. - Cicero

          by Dauphin on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 10:44:57 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  monopoly power is required (1+ / 0-)

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            Dauphin

            The reason I excepted China is that I do believe in imperfections in the market. A Rockefeller can destroy competitors and then raise prices in the future. Arguably OPEC does that by cheapening oil when alternative technologies appear attractive and then raising prices more than would be normal down the road. Microsoft can make it very attractive to hook up with them, acquire a monopoly and then mandate tie-ins.
              If you don't acquire monopoly power in the process, all you are doing is selling your stuff too cheaply when you use currency manipulations without acquiring any future advantage. I except China because they are large enough, I can't tell the long-term effects of their distortions. But there are only a handful of economies that are large enough to acquire monopolies in international trade.

            by Themistokles on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 04:03:40 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  I see ethics are lost on you. It's not just what (7+ / 0-)

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          it does to us, and it does cause damage as jobs that could be done here are moved out of county.   It's also what it does to them, as in Mexico's wrecked family farmers as we dumped government subsided corn into their markets!!  Opps!

          Of course, to understand all of this requires you to think like a human being rather than some flat-earth headed huckster economist, like Friedman or Greenspan.  That means empathy for your fellow man rather than capital.  Too many "economists" seek to preserve capital regardless of the consequence to labor, society and people.  They forget that the economy is a measure of society and the people within, not an end result unto itself!!!  

          Ethics.  Try it.  Makes a body and soul grow strong.  

          You don't negotiate with fascists, you defeat them in the name of democracy. --Ambr. Joe Wilson

          by FightTheFuture on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 12:34:48 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  I stand with Bill Clinton and Al Gore (0+ / 0-)

             I don't disagree: "the economy is a measure of society and the people within, not an end result unto itself!!!"
              That's why I'm a Democrat. Progressive taxation, universal health care, using the market with ideas like carbon taxes to save the environment, subsidizing higher education so students don't have to take on high debt - investing in human capital rather than corporate subsidies. But not by increasing the rigidities in the economy through interfering with free trade, controlling carbon output by fiat, rather than through taxation, etc. I favor the approach to the economy of Bill Clinton and Al Gore. [Bill Clinton, remember was the person who said in the economy of the future, the average employee was going to have multiple careers - Al Gore was the one who defended NAFTA and currently espouses market-friendly approaches of saving the environment.]
              India, having seen the devastation of their domestic industry by colonial free trade, was influenced by Socialists to adopt protection of domestic industries from 1945 to the late 80's; it was a disaster for the people of India which stymied economic growth for decades. Since then they have adopted increasing free trade and become a tiger of East Asia. Now even the formerly protectionist Congress party understands that the basic approach of freeing trade further was the only reasonable approach, even while they are more concerned with the affect on the displaced and the distribution of wealth through society.

            by Themistokles on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 01:13:03 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Read about what is happening in India... (3+ / 0-)

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              regarding their farming industry, thanks to Monsanto and other co's forcing them to use genetically modified seeds.

              They end up having to use these in an attempt to compete with the US, but often end up losing their farms, and even killing themselves.

              Seeds of Suicide

              If they created free trade agreements that actually benefited both parties, I would get behind that.

              I have yet to see one that is fair.

              01-20-09: THE END OF AN ERROR

              by kimoconnor on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 01:55:01 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Oh puhlease. First, do not throw around Gore and (5+ / 0-)

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              Clinton's names in some feeble attempt to justify idiot Economics of Milton Feidman and that Ayn Rand libertarian asshat, Alan Greenspan.  

              Gore may have defended NAFTA, but it was in the context of being VP to his President who supported it as a DLC policy pushed, first and foremost, by Rahm Emannual; the godfather of NAFTA!!  I am not convinced that Gore would be as supportive of NAFTA today.  Gore trying "market friendly" approach to Global Warming is more an accommodation to the system in place than anything else.  Fiat is often a good way to go depending on the need and problem at hand.  Also, keep in mind that Clinton was the best "Republican" President this country ever had, and while he did  some things right, he also did some things wrong!  NAFTA a prime example.

              Secondly, there is no such thing as "free trade", just like there is not such thing as the "free market".  There is simply the system and the rules or customs set in place to allow trade to occur between entities.

              What you think of as "free trade" is simply much less restrictions on capital moving its assets and influence around at the expense of labor and societies in general.  If you want something approaching "free trade", then societies have to adopt uniform environmental and labor standards and equalize to a similar cost of living, otherwise there will always be exploitation to seek gain.  While this in of itslef is neutral, the results of this gain seeking can be very damaging.  The trick is find balance to what serves society (which is people), and we have lost that today.  

              As for India, it's ridiculous to say their growth was stymied for decades due to protectionist trade policies which exist to this day, BTW!!  Hello, Wal-Mart lost so far their bid to have controlling ownership in India.  I would think that breaking the shackle of British colonial rule in '47, then dealing with religious strife during the 50's, and being a caught in the cold war until the mid 80's may have "stymied" them, not trade policies!!  With the fall of the USSR in the early 90's, India did embark on economic changes, and that helped.  What really helped them, however, is a well educated workforce thanks to free university education (which I note you seem to be be for).  Coupled with our "give away the store and the ground its under" trade policies here, and well, its more of Right Place at the Right Time.  

              Cripes!!

              Now, I'm glad your think yourself a progressive Democrat, etc.  But really, learn something about economics and trade; when you spout that misleading meme of "free trade" I already know you are badly misinformed.  We have worked quite well in this country with tariffs trade policies that existed since the 1780's until the 1980's and the plague called Ronald Reagan and a cancer called the DLC, among others.  Since then, it's been a slide downhill into the muck and mire!

              You don't negotiate with fascists, you defeat them in the name of democracy. --Ambr. Joe Wilson

              by FightTheFuture on Fri Oct 05, 2007 at 04:40:55 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

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