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  No this is not another I won't vote for her in a general election diary. The reason why most of us who say we won't vote for her under any circumstances will probably end up pulling the level for her will be the fact that we can't stand her Republican opponent. As a nominee she really would be the ultimate lessor of two evils. Hillary has now backed away from her charge that her poor performance at the debate was a result of being ganged up on by men. She now states it was because she's winning in the polls.
  Then why do surragates of hers continue making the case that she's the agrieved woman?  Gerry Ferraro;

They say we’re playing the gender card. We are not. We are not. We have got to stand up. It’s discrimination against her as a candidate because she is a woman.

   The reason is because Hillary knows that the potential for backlash is MUCH greater if she keeps up with the woe is me card. For Hillary to continue to play into that line of thinking is demeaning to one of the few virtues of her candidacy, a strong woman who could lead the country. What Hillary is doing again is trying to have it both ways like she does on everything,send a "feminist hero" out there as a proxy to make the case that Hillary is the victim of angry men while publicly stating that she should be considered on her merits. It embarassing for our party and while a Republican president may be even worse, I dont' want to see Hillary as our president. It would mean she is rewarded for always taking the most tactical and cynical angle on everything include who she is as a person. Hopefully there's still time for an alternative. Michelle Obama and Elizabeth Edwards should get out in front of this in the early states because I believe when women find out the specifics of the game Hillary is trying to play here it won't go over to well.

Originally posted to nevadadem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:43 AM PST.

Poll

Do you want Hillary to be president

19%42 votes
80%174 votes

| 216 votes | Vote | Results

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Comment Preferences

    •  have a celebratory dance (4+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina, Salo, MikeTheLiberal, Faheyman

      Hillary is running against Bush. Compared to Bush, we all look like Gandhi. We should expect more than just "not Bush".

      by danthrax on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:55:08 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  he's got some moves. (3+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        danthrax, dotster, Faheyman

        My novel is full of sex, drink, incest, suicides, dope, horseracing, murder, scandalous legal procedure and ends with a good public hanging--attended by 30,000

        by Salo on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:04:47 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  he said he could "bust a move"----and Ellen (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          danthrax, marina

          said he was the best dancer of the candidates she's had on her show----not sure how many she has hosted-----has she seen Gravel's swinging hips yet?
           And of course dancin' doesn't matter----unless you're choosing a husband or a president.  (always "kid" my husband that I married him cause I liked his clothes and that he could dance)(deep stuff like that)(probably closer to the truth than I care to admit)
           And I like that Obama can dance---I also like that he is attractive and witty and smart and charismatic and has great ideas to bring real change to this country and I like what an Obama presidency would mean to the whole mindset of this country and to the way the world would view us.
           I like that Obama is a full and interesting person with so many great qualities----even his ability to bust a move.

    •  George S pile on! (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Faheyman

      My novel is full of sex, drink, incest, suicides, dope, horseracing, murder, scandalous legal procedure and ends with a good public hanging--attended by 30,000

      by Salo on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:04:06 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  that's simply impossible (0+ / 0-)

      If Hillary wins because she is the best
      candidate, THAT WILL not
      be "regardless of their gender, race or anything else".  The fact that she is female will be an important reason WHY SHE WAS THE BEST candidate.
      Would she be winning if she were a man?
      This is a little harder to ask in her case because then she couldn't've been married to Bill, but say, if she had been Roger and Roger had been as well-educated as Bill and Roger had been Bill's Attorney General (is that even still legal?)... whatever.

      My point is simply that identity politics does happen to MATTER around here, and disagreeing with that is a good way to get your prog card yanked.

  •  Besides her issues position does not jive with (9+ / 0-)

    mine, I have nothing against the fact she's a woman. I have an issue she's a Clinton and it's about time America is led by someone not in the same family anymore.

    You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war..... Albert Einstein,

    by tazz on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:45:43 AM PST

    •  I have nothing agianst that fact she is (8+ / 0-)

      a woman, I despise the fact that now she's sending out supporters to make the case that reunning against her is basically descriminating against her.

      OBAMA--because 51% isn't enough!

      by nevadadem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:47:27 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Absolute nonsense. n/t (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Caldonia

        Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

        by oldpro on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:46:16 AM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  Why is it nonsense?? (0+ / 0-)

          Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

          by annefrank on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:51:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  Because there is no evidence of (2+ / 0-)
            Recommended by:
            Caldonia, JamieG from Md

            the fact that now she's sending out supporters to make the case that reunning against her is basically descriminating against her.

             Saying something is 'a fact' doesn't make it one.  It makes it propaganda.

            'Sending out supporters' is what every campaign does by definition.  Trying to control what they do or say is the nightmare of every candidate!  It can't be done and anyone trying to do it will go crazy.  You live with your loudmouthed, nutty supporters just as you live with those you are proudest of.  They are not 'spokespeople' unless the candidate names them...officially.  Other than that, they're on their own.

            To assume otherwise if to take up reading tea leaves.

            Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

            by oldpro on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:31:35 AM PST

            [ Parent ]

            •  Oh jeeeez! (1+ / 0-)
              Recommended by:
              Tempus Figits

              Geraldine Ferraro wouldn't make independent statements about Hillary!!
              But she would do their dirty work - hoping for a cabinet position.
              Bingo!

              Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

              by annefrank on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:54:33 AM PST

              [ Parent ]

              •  Sigh...I am becoming a bit exasperated with you (2+ / 0-)
                Recommended by:
                Caldonia, Pozzo

                Anne, as - with wild abandon - you make some truly ignorant statements as if they were facts.  Here are a few relevant ones to fill the void...

                Geraldine Ferraro was diagnosed ten years ago with a cancer for which there is no cure....multiple myeloma. About half of the people diagnosed with the disease die within 5 years. Multiple myeloma suppresses the immune system, leads to anemia, nerve failure, infections, and bone fractures.

                The standard treatment for the disease has always been chemotherapy, followed by bone marrow transplant, radiation, and more chemotherapy. All of this difficult treatment only adds two or three years to the person's life.  That puts Gerry near the end of the best odds available.

                She is almost exactly a year older than I...she is 72 and definitely NOT looking for a cabinet position in anybody's administration.  Please.  Do not make assumptions about people you do not know or issues you do not comprehend.

                Listen, we all foul up once in a while.  This is a big one.  Let it be a lesson...

                Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

                by oldpro on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 12:11:17 PM PST

                [ Parent ]

                •  Yes - I knew she had cancer (0+ / 0-)

                  but thought she was past the danger zone. But, hopefully you're not suggesting her meds caused her to speak out without conferring with Hillary's campaign.
                  btw - the only women I "know" that are supporting Hillary are online.

                  Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

                  by annefrank on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:20:42 PM PST

                  [ Parent ]

    •  Umm...she's not 'a Clinton.' She married one. (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      miriam, Pozzo

      And the word is 'jibe,' not jive.

      Just sayin'....

      Tell me how you spend your time and how you spend your money -- I'll tell you what your values are.

      by oldpro on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:45:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  What?!? (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tempus Figits

      you don't like the possibility of 24 years of Bush and Bush-lite policies and continuation of the Bush-Clinton dynasty??
      picky, picky

      Dems will not hold impeachment hearings while Bill is campaigning with Hillary.

      by annefrank on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:50:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Why I don't care (3+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Jim J, Hairy Legs, ge0rge

    Becasue you are noise

  •  WTF? (9+ / 0-)

    However the democratic electorate does include a % of women that believe they are always the victim regardless of the circumstances of an issue.

    And who, pray tell, might you be referring to there?

    •  the people that Gerry Ferraro must be apealing (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      annefrank, Tempus Figits

      too with her comment ....The Hillary team does everything for a reason.

      We can’t let them do this in a presidential race. They say we’re playing the gender card. We are not. We are not. We have got to stand up. It’s discrimination against her as a candidate because she is a woman.

      OBAMA--because 51% isn't enough!

      by nevadadem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:50:01 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, that was over the top (4+ / 0-)

      -5.88, -7.49, Liberty, Equality, Fraternity!

      by cjallen on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:50:32 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  That remark ... (0+ / 0-)

      ... was enough for me not to recommend this diary.

      I did tip for the effort, though.

      "People should not be afraid of their government; governments should be afraid of their people." --V

      by MikeTheLiberal on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:15:00 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  The same folks who think women can't consent to (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Tempus Figits

      sex?  It's always men's fault, because men hold all power.

      or the numbers of women out there, like my ex-sister in law, who considered my brother's money her money, and her money her money -- she expected my brother to pay for every bill and entertainment (be old-fashioned meal provider) in spite of making enough money to pay her share (she wasn't a housewife).  The benefits of feminism and pre-feminism?  How nice for her.  When they divorced, she honestly expected him to continue paying for the house she was living in and every utility.  She had a job, and a well paying one at that.  She just didn't think the benefits of feminism extended to her being an equal household member instead of a kept woman.  Tradition.

      or more likely, perhaps just the number of women who appeared last week, and bought Hilary's line hook-line-and-seeker about being piled upon because she was a girl trying to break into the boy's club.  Those mean old men.  How dare they.  They do exist.   Their appearance since the debate proves it.  The question now is just how many are they in truth, how steady are their voting patterns, and what effect will they have on the primaries and the election?

  •  Hmmm... (6+ / 0-)

    However the democratic electorate does include a % of women that believe they are always the victim regardless of the circumstances of an issue.

    ...I don't think that's either accurate, fair, or will be very well received. Poorly put, and I agree with your underlying thesis.

    "Listen here, my little Bolshevik cabin donkey" - Gen. JC Christian, Patriot

    by MBNYC on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:51:25 AM PST

  •  I'm not she lost the debate (11+ / 0-)

    or did as poorly as everyone here is claiming.  I didn't see the debate but clearly we have polls that show her continuing to maintain her lead.  It reminds me of the 2000 Senate Race where everyone thought Rick Lazio had won the debate after his dramatic walk up to Clinton's podium.  All the commentators jumped on board to talk about how Lazio had trounced her but it turned out in the eyes of voters, Clinton had actually won the debate.  Sometimes personal observations can be wrong.

    Build the Wilshire Subway!

    by SoCalLiberal on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:52:43 AM PST

  •  I noticed a flurry of calls to the talk shows (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    Tempus Figits, dotster

    I listen to that took issue with Hillary's performance in the debate.

    The women who called seemed very-well versed in what they wanted to say, and pretty much said the same thing.

    I got the feeling Hillary's team had people freeping the talk shows to defend Hillary.

    •  Yes, it is kind of ... (7+ / 0-)

      unbelievable that women actually listen to and respond to talk radio, it's even more incredulous that they could actually be well versed and articulate.

      Sure.

      Right.

      Uh huh.

      I'm sick of America being covered by conservative crap and now Felons go free when they are GOP.

      by emsprater on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:05:39 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  My point was that they sounded almost the same (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tempus Figits, ge0rge

        very-well versed in what they wanted to say

        They all hammered the idea that Hillary was being abused because she is female, then it stopped - about the time that Hillary decided she was being attacked because she was the front-runner, not because she is a girl.

        I'm a woman, I would like to see a woman president, the last thing I want is to hear a woman cry foul when things get rough.  That is a disservice to us all, and re-enforces the meme that women have to have special "consideration" because they are women.
        That is the language that has kept women "in their place" for so long.

        Hillary is the person to beat in this race, she has a target on her back, crying foul for piling on by the men in the race is just childish BS.

    •  good for them (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      DaleA, Hairy Legs

      I want a candidate who can work the process.

      11/7/06. America won. The Republicans lost. Our duty is to earn that trust.

      by Dave from Oregon on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:07:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Well, then Hillary's your girl.... (2+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        Tempus Figits, ge0rge
        •  Any of our guys will be just fine (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          Pozzo

          I can vote for any of the Democratic front runners. HRC, Obama, Edwards. Any of them would be able to make a good start undoing the damage of the last 7 years.

          11/7/06. America won. The Republicans lost. Our duty is to earn that trust.

          by Dave from Oregon on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 12:23:38 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

      •  The Democrats version of the Bush campaign. (0+ / 0-)

        That may be what you want, but I want a Democratic President that won't end up destroying the party because the American Public is sick of that brand of politics.

        A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

        by Tempus Figits on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:17:14 PM PST

        [ Parent ]

        •  As long as that person is PRESIDENT on 1/21/09. (0+ / 0-)

          It really does matter if one of ours wins this time around. We cannot afford to have any of the Republicans.  The right will bitch, piss, and moan if any of our candidates win.  But it will in fact matter if we win.  Look at the judiciary, look at the rest of the Bush administration. This is the crowd who will take office on Jan 21, 2009 if our guy/girl loses.

          Please don't forget this.

          Thanks

          11/7/06. America won. The Republicans lost. Our duty is to earn that trust.

          by Dave from Oregon on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:41:36 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Enough with the woman thing (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    wishingwell, magi

    I like her because she's a woman, I don't like her because her presidency would be dynastic (as was George w. Bush's) and in my opinion, would be a magnent for corruption which would make Democrats look like hypocrites.

    Hillary will enter the presidency with a 51% approval rating and the first inevitable mistake she makes will destroy her and her party, not because she's a woman, but because she's Hillary Clinton.

    You want excellent female leadership? Let's discuss the Governors of Kansas, Washington and Arizona or Atlanta Mayor Shirley Franklin.

    I know she's a conservative Republican, but Alaska Governor Sarah Palin has even won some points in my book.

    •  Sarah Palin is a wacko (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      oldpro, DCDemocrat, born socialist

      She's been busy introducing creationism and jesus into the schools and government.  But you otherwise have a point, there is other female leadership out there.  I think there were some rising stars from the last election like Gabrielle Giffords and Kirsten Gillibrand and those are just a few to be named.  We also currently have the first female Speaker of the House.  So there is female leadership out there.  I think Hilary Clinton benefits from being so prominently known.  The average voter probably doesn't follow politics that closely and would draw a blank if you mentioned Kathleen Sebellius, Janet Napolitano, or Jeanne Shaheen to them.  They just wouldn't know.  

      Build the Wilshire Subway!

      by SoCalLiberal on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:58:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Props for Kathleen. My dream VP for Obama (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      wishingwell

      "I served my country. I played High School Football!" -Al Bundy

      by magi on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:06:28 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Sorry, but voting for someone just because... (0+ / 0-)

      they are a woman is just as sexist as not voting for them just because they are a woman.  If voting based upon the candidate's sex is truly what you believe in then you are a bigot.

      A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

      by Tempus Figits on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:19:35 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  Not because she's a woman (0+ / 0-)

        I'm not supporting her in the primary, because I agree with you. Her sex isn't the reason to support her, rather her positions and the feeling that she would make a good president.

        In the general I'll support her because I think she's better for the country than any Republican, but not by much. I like the fact that she's a woman, a strong woman who can prove all those naysayers wrong, but that alone isn't a reason get me to support her. If she was a man, I'd still not be supporting her

        My point is, as women goes, she's good, but there are better.

        •  My apologies. (0+ / 0-)

          I obviously misread your post, sorry.  I stand by statement in regards to anyone that is voting for Hillary simply or primarily because she is a woman.  I have no problems with people that are voting for Hillary because they agree with her positions...  Well actually I still have a problem with them but that has to do with the fact that I don't believe Hillary actually holds the positions many of her supporters purport and disagree vehemently on the few positions Hillary has shown herself to actually support.

          I also disagree that Hillary is a strong woman.  I believe that she believes the Presidency is hers by right but that is not the same as being strong.  I have yet to see her actually stand up to a bully.  I have yet to see her fight the good fight even if she can't win or it might cause her difficulty.  I have yet to see her broker a deal across philosophical (let alone ideological) divides.  

          The Governor of my state, Christine Gregoire, has done these things.  Darcy Burner, a candidate for the WA-08 that I have been an ardent supporter of for the last 2+ years and my wife interned with during the 2006 election where she went from being an unknown to almost defeating her Republican incumbent with a 95% name recognition in the district, is also one that has done these things.  Hillary Clinton's record is one of backing down every time when the going got rough.

          I know she is pretending otherwise but I challenge her supporters to list 3 accomplishments she has persevered through determined and intense opposition and achieved victory despite the obstacles.

          I guess my point is, as women go, she is not good, that Pelosi has shown herself to be stronger in standing up to Republicans.  And I give only grudging support that she is better than anything the Republicans might offer in the '08 Election.  However, I must also caveat that with the fact that the Libertarian Party's candidates (who I don't even know of) are preferable to any that the Republicans currently have slated for the '08 Election.  Heck, the He-Man's Women Hater's Club of Milo's Meadow candidate of Cutter John and Opus are better than the Republican's candidates.

          A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

          by Tempus Figits on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 03:53:44 PM PST

          [ Parent ]

  •  Damnit (4+ / 0-)

    I meant to say 'I'm not sure she lost the debate.

    Build the Wilshire Subway!

    by SoCalLiberal on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:53:58 AM PST

    •  And Republicans believe Global Warming... (0+ / 0-)

      isn't manmade.  That doesn't make it true.  She got clobbered in the debate and her campaign's post-debate spin was even worse.  If she doesn't start answering questions rather than give doublespeak (it will no longer fly now that the meme is closely tied with her) and strongly rebuke her campaign and its surrogates bs sexism claims.  Hillary will be lucky if doesn't drop behind Edwards in the polls by the time Christmas Mass is celebrated.

      A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

      by Tempus Figits on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:24:08 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hillary Clinton's entire narrative is about... (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    SoCalLiberal

    ...being a "survivor".  That's how she positions our party - as David in a battle with the evil Republican Goliath.

    This narrative places them in the position of power.  I think nominating her will lead to just that.

    When I look at Barack Obama, I think about John F. Kennedy, who leaped over Hubert Humphrey's generation to bring in fresh voices and fresh ideas.-Bill Moyers

    by snout on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:53:59 AM PST

  •  She my 4th choice behind (9+ / 0-)

    Edwards, Obama, and Dodd but if she gets the nom i'll take her in a heartbeat over any of the GOP nominees.

    "There is nothing wrong with America can't be cured by what is right with America" -Bill Clinton

    by SensibleDemocrat on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:56:28 AM PST

    •  My list is similar to yours, but with a few (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      Andy823

      IMPORTANT differences:

      1. Edwards
      1. Dodd
      1. Obama

      -----

      1. Biden
      1. Richardson
      1. Kucinich
      1. Gravel
      1. Clinton

      Can you say "Penalty Box?"

      Gee, I knew you could.

      Happy little moron, Lucky little man. I wish I was a moron, My God! Perhaps I am! -Spike Milligan

      by polecat on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:40:29 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  my list, and a question (1+ / 0-)
        Recommended by:
        polecat

        Is there some central place where
        EVERYbody's list could get collected?
        Or even tabulated?  Sort of an ongoing
        all-Kos poll that evolved daily?

        1. Edwards
        1. Kucinich
        1. Dodd
        1. tied for irrelevant: Biden,Obama,Richardson
        1. tied for dangerous: Gravel, Clinton
        •  obama irreelevant? (1+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          polecat

          want to explain that one?

          "There is nothing wrong with America can't be cured by what is right with America" -Bill Clinton

          by SensibleDemocrat on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:59:06 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

          •  I think he's irrelevant (0+ / 0-)

            It's my list; it's my opinion.
            In order to be relevant you have to
            say something that needs saying, or be
            about to get elected despite the fact that
            you aren't saying anything.

            Obama had a shot at relevance when he was talking about more reasonable diplomacy, but he got spun into retreating from it.  He was not going to be relevant with that until he started talking seriously about Cuba and Venezuela, which of course he never will, because he is irrelevant.

            He had a brief flurry of relevance in a BAD way thanks to McClurkin.

            But in answer to your question, no, I don't
            want to explain jack.  Obama's positions speak for themselves, like everybody else's.  And from McClurkin to Social Security to whatever, I personally don't much appreciate them.

            •  +4 for having an opinion and sharing it. (0+ / 0-)

              Whether I agree or not doesn't really matter.

              Sounds like a good topic for a diary -- give everyone a template 1..8 and try to get them to rank the candidates.  Then summarize the tallies.

              Add a poll on people's Second choice or even Third choice just for laughs.

              Happy little moron, Lucky little man. I wish I was a moron, My God! Perhaps I am! -Spike Milligan

              by polecat on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 03:27:18 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

            •  fair enough (0+ / 0-)

              you are entitled to your opinion i was just curious

              "There is nothing wrong with America can't be cured by what is right with America" -Bill Clinton

              by SensibleDemocrat on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 03:30:26 PM PST

              [ Parent ]

    •  I will vote for Hillary in the General but... (1+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      marina

      My list is:

      1. Obama
      1. Edwards
      1. Dodd
      1. Everyone else (including Gravel & Kucinich) except...
      1. Hillary

      As stated before, I will vote for Hillary in the General Election but I will want to bathe in bleach for the next month.  A choice between Hillary and any of the Republicans is similar to choosing between drinking a gallon of raw sewage and eating a pound of plutonium.  One will make you sicker than a dog but is unlikely to kill you as long as you receive medical care.  The other is guaranteed to kill you.  Neither are ones you would do willingly.

      A person's character is measured by how they treat everyone. Not just your pet group.

      by Tempus Figits on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 01:32:33 PM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  I don't know that the Clinton campaign (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    latts, Pozzo, marina, Andy823

    is claiming all her opponents must be sexist in order to appeal to any given group. I think its more likely that it gives her a chance to be a sympathetic figure in the next few news cycles without ever having to discuss issues.

    As long as she keeps the media and the public focused on personality, then she can't really be hurt too much. If the media and the Democratic base focus on her policy stands, then she can face real trouble. She just needs to tread water till the general election at this point.

    "She was very young,he thought,...she did not understand that to push an inconvenient person over a cliff solves nothing." -1984

    by aggressiveprogressive on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:58:03 AM PST

  •  On re-reading my diary I can see (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    magi

    how that point can be taken the wrong way, I was referring to Hillary attempt to "polarize" the dem electorate on gender grounds with Ferraro's comment. I will remove it because it could be seen as offensive to the women voters themselves.

    OBAMA--because 51% isn't enough!

    by nevadadem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:00:18 AM PST

  •  To bad the media has already (0+ / 0-)

    ...declared her the winner.

    With big bucks from some of Bush's rangers how can she lose?

  •  I suppose I have to ... (2+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    oldpro, Edgar08

    wonder aloud whether Ferraro wrote her own words, simply spoke spontaneously or, if something more nefarious was afoot, as you imply, and "team Hillary" wrote Ferraro's statement and then obliged her to repeat it.

    You know, sometimes supporters say things on their own, but it never gets a pass unless it's your own candidates supporters.

    I'm sick of America being covered by conservative crap and now Felons go free when they are GOP.

    by emsprater on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:02:50 AM PST

  •  yawn (7+ / 0-)

    What a shocker, another anti-Hillary diary on Daily Kos. Traffic to this site will drop 75 percent when she locks up the nomination.

    •  that would be great (6+ / 0-)

      just what we need another candidate who is more enthusiastically opposesd by Republicans than supported by the people in our party that actually give a shit.

      OBAMA--because 51% isn't enough!

      by nevadadem on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:07:12 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Now Jim, you know that's not true. (3+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      tmo, polecat, DaleA

      Folks get all amped up through every primary and then resolve the gulf when we reach the general.

      I know I'll still be here. And I've got no love for Hillary's campaign.

      "She was very young,he thought,...she did not understand that to push an inconvenient person over a cliff solves nothing." -1984

      by aggressiveprogressive on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:12:11 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yawn (2) (6+ / 0-)

      yawn What a shocker, another anti-Hillary diary on Daily Kos. Traffic to this site will drop 75 percent when she locks up the nomination.

      Ok, so lets agree: You worry about the number of visitors to the site, and we'll worry about the boring stuff, like Hillary's vote for Kyl-Lieberman.

      'If [voters] can be reached out to with respect...I think a lot of them will come back' to the Democratic Party -Jim Webb

      by assyrian64 on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:12:14 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

      •  I ain't worried about this site (9+ / 0-)

        It's not mine, thank goodness. I hope Kos has the good sense to sell it and cash out soon.

        Daily Kos jumped the shark long ago with the type of almost violently obsessive Hillary hatred that used to be the stock in trade of right-wing blogs. A year ago Bill Clinton was spoken of fondly around here, but now there are entire diaries devoted to the premise that he was basically a Republican. I guess these diaries are posted by people who are 17 years old, because no one who lived through the '90s would confuse Bill Clinton with a Republican.

        Some dude on another diary just seriously compared Hillary Clinton to Faust, asking if she'd made a deal with the devil, as in the actual Satan, in order to be president. I'm not even sure you can find something that crazy on Free Republic, but shit like that gets recced out the wazoo here.

        •  Well, I think you confuse (4+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          tmo, born socialist, oscarfrye, ge0rge

          pointing out that Pres. Clinton was not a liberal with a hatred of Pres. Clinton. Big difference. I, for one, do not want to see Hillary elected because she is not a liberal and the country is ready to elect a liberal candidate. I think that electing her would be a great opportunity lost.

          Pres. Clinton was not a liberal, but he was a great President in his time. His triangualtion was necessary to keep Gingrich and the Rush Limbaugh Republicans at bay. Bill did great things and I applaud him for it. Even have a signed photo of him on my office wall.

          But this is not 1992. We don't need a President who triangulates when we will control both houses of Congress in '08.

          Good luck over at the DLC blog if we don't see you here in the future.

          "She was very young,he thought,...she did not understand that to push an inconvenient person over a cliff solves nothing." -1984

          by aggressiveprogressive on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:35:16 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah, we get it: HRC supporters want dems to STFU (2+ / 0-)
          Recommended by:
          aggressiveprogressive, ge0rge

          "Resistance is futile, look at the polls, it's all been done before, you're just helping the sexists/republicans/VCRW/terrorists, you people suck, don't you know how irrelevant you are".

          It's all aimed at shutting us up and submitting before a single vote is cast.

          HRC 08 isn't looking for supporters anymore. It's looking for sullen, cynical acceptance so she can start trying to enthuse those independents and republicans she's relying on.  She'll be happy if democrats stop satying the Empress has no clothes because for some reason, she thinks she's neutralized republicans with her hawk triangulation.

          Read Obama's 2002 speech against invading Iraq. http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm

          by Inland on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:24:30 AM PST

          [ Parent ]

        •  Bill Clinton was Republican enough (0+ / 0-)

          to attack welfare, to cave on DADT and DOMA,
          to leave Mike Espy and Jocelyn Elders twisting
          in the wind, to champion NAFTA, etc. ad naus.

          It is not OK to drink the Kool-Aid while insisting that at least it's not battery acid.  You're dead either way.

  •  Tag (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DCDemocrat

    Needs editting here.

    I look at what Ferrarro says and it's relationship with Clinton.

    The same way I look at what Geffen says.  And it's relationship with Obama.

    "'Inevitable' is my word, not Mark Penn's" -- Ben Smith, Politico.com

    by Edgar08 on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:30:14 AM PST

  •  $%&$#!! FERRARO IS NOT A SURROGATE! (4+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    miriam, Hairy Legs, JamieG from Md, ge0rge

    I have fucking had it with you people impugning every stealthy, sneaky, devious, underhanded motive to Hillary Clinton that you can possibly think of.

    Do you wake up in the morning trying to think of new ways that Hillary is scheming in unusually dastardly and nefarious ways to win the presidency?

    Look.

    The NYT wants to do a story on Hillary Clinton and the hint from her campaign team.  They prep it.  They want quotes.  They think for two seconds: when's the last time a woman got near the White House.  Geraldine Ferraro.    They contact her.  They get a quote.  They print it.

    Ferraro's remarks are a fucking embarrassment and if the Clinton campaign could have removed them from this article, they would have done so.

    Sorry to lose my temper but it's getting ridiculous in here.  It truly is.

    •  Simple Solution (2+ / 0-)
      Recommended by:
      polecat, aggressiveprogressive

      Come out and denounce the accusation

      "When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

      by oscarfrye on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:35:31 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

    •  Is she just providing the entertainment? (0+ / 0-)

      I remember not too long ago that it wasn't even enough for Obama to have specifically different views from one of his supporters.

      HRC 08 has already used the whole "I'm being picked on" and "it's a boys' club" theme.

      As far as I'm concerned, if HRC 08 doesn't disown it, it's approved.  I'm sure it will, in a day or two, after it figures out how it is making the campaign look stupid.

      Read Obama's 2002 speech against invading Iraq. http://usliberals.about.com/od/extraordinaryspeeches/a/Obama2002War.htm

      by Inland on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:17:07 AM PST

      [ Parent ]

  •  What i want is for primary season to be (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DCDemocrat

    over, so we can all get behind whoever the nominee is, and it's simply just gone on toooooo long, I can't listen to it anymore, thank God its only 9 weeks till IOWA!!! anyone share this sentiment?

  •  she'd be okay (1+ / 0-)
    Recommended by:
    DCDemocrat

    not the quite th ebest we can do though.

    My novel is full of sex, drink, incest, suicides, dope, horseracing, murder, scandalous legal procedure and ends with a good public hanging--attended by 30,000

    by Salo on Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 11:22:01 AM PST

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