Daily Kos

Maureen Dowd, only Not

Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:15:35 AM PDT

Maureen Dowd’s Wednesday column, She’s No Morgenthau...

http://www.nytimes.com/...  t

... claims the girl candidate has been shamelessly inflating her credentials.   I didn’t think it was funny enough, so I did a parody.   This diary is about feminism, and not about any particular girl candidate.    

I posted a version of this a few days ago, but some thought I just copied her column.  I reworked some of it to make it more obvious.  I also parodied Obama's quotes, and the quote from some letter published in the Wall Street Journal.  

Color me Feminist, by Not Maureen Dowd

Barack Obama, who’s seemed way too respectful of the girl running for president, maybe cause she reminds him of his Midwestern moms and apple pie,  finally stepped up to the plate, and sent one zinging over right field. In Dodge Stadium, he slammed a clearly and, in my opinion, obviously spontaneous and, unlike you-know-who, unscripted, ‘fly ‘n ball’ that knocked that ‘wife candidate’ on her no longer fire proof fanny.

Obama was asked about Hillary Clinton’s clearly unprovoked attack on his qualifications. Hillary had been shamefully bragging about her own questionable qualifications, adding “if there is one job we can’t afford on-the-job training for it’s the job of our next president.” Her aides confirmed she was referring to Obama, although the sillies ought to have said she’s referring to Rudy, or Ron, who make Obama seem like he’s seeking presidential reelection.    

Since he’d been pressed to respond, Obama came up with a real zingerdinger, coated with manly disdain: My understanding was that she wasn’t exactly Treasury secretary or anything in her husband’s administration, you know, so I don’t know what the chickie’s claiming, exactly.  I believe she was only some president’s wife, you know, get it?  

Everyone snickered, including Michelle.

It may have taken him a full nine-month pregnancy, but he finally delivered the perfect slap that made his ‘knock-her-down-and-then-laugh-at-her’ point. Rudy took note, and he immediately gave up his dream to elevate Judi to succeed his coming monarchy.  

Her other rivals have been meekly going along, accepting her self-portrait as a former co-president who gets to take credit for being clued in during the deal-making, at the epicenter, and not just passing the cookies.  She was never elected president, so who does she think she is; she’s just another girl taking credit for her he man’s accomplishments, and where have we seen that before? She was just there, there is no proof she was even listening. And the part of the Clinton administration that worked best — the economy, stupid — was run by Robert Rubin, a man! Hillary did not even show great judgment in her scant areas of influence — dealing with the spurious and ultimately discredited investigations, which would have turned up squat whatever she was doing hey, her wacky universal health care plan, and defending her randy husband when a few of his ex-girlfriends wanted their fifteen minutes, and a cash settlement.  She wasn’t just useless, she got in the men’s way, as girls as wont to do, I might add.  How’s that experience, I ask you?

Oh, sure, she went on some first lady jaunts and made one pretty good but not fabulous speech or anything, at a U.N. women’s conference in Beijing. But she most certainly was not, as her top Iowa supporter claimed, “the face of the administration in foreign affairs.” And we all know that what Iowa says once, she says, twice.  

If she’d even been the top adviser she claims she was, she must have had a Nixonian (paranoid, get it?) bent for secrecy and his knack for hard-core porn, I mean, politicking, but Obama rightly points out, ain’t so, the girlie was just a wife, I’m saying wife here, not husband.  The real powers behind the throne were Carville and Stephanopoulos, and they would both be leading the pack, if they would both just quit working for the big-bucks media and get back to public service, and both of them are men, get it?  

Obama’s one-liner reminded me of something that rubs me and some of my old white guy, both professional and wise, friends the wrong way about Hillary. Hillary disguises nepotism with feminism, if you can believe the nerve. I mean, George Bush didn’t invoke masculine when he took over his dad’s failed job destabilizing the middle east for him, did he?  I mean, manliness is never mentioned when guys are running, and anyway it’s so 80’s, now that there’s a level playing field she should start all over, at the bottom, like Bush, and Gore, and oh, gosh, all of them, no?  

Some nobody who got a letter published in the Walleye Street Journal said it even better than Obama: Guys, she isn’t Dianne Feinstein, who inherited assassinated San Francisco’s Mayor Mosconi’s gig, before becoming a senator, with no head start at all, or even politically unconnected Nancy Pelosi, who became Madam Speaker on the strength of her deal-making, which is so strong we’re out of Iraq, no kidding. All Hillary is, is Mrs. Clinton, a wife, get it?  She became a partner at the Rose Law Firm because she’s a wife, senator of New York because she’s a wife, and (oh my god, get me out of here) she could become president because she’s a wife. I mean, no one even died to give her a seat at the table, and none of her blood relatives have any political power at all, nada, she’s JUST A WIFE, get it?

The Clinton campaign in Iowa is in a panic, they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, it’s, ‘bloody over,’ there, and ‘slick’.  Obama has been closing the gap with women and her bringing up feminism has lost her male votes, probably, actually no one’s voted yet, so I’m speaking about polls, which are as good as votes, unless they’re exit polls of course, in Democratic districts that inexplicably go Republican, when they’re, how can I put it, wrong. Speaking around Iowa this week, Obama made the trenchant point that his exotic and rather thrilling childhood, and his years as an ‘outsider’ at Harvard, allowed him to understand the entire world.

I spent four entire years living in Asia when I was a child, he said. If you don’t understand these cultures from a child’s perspective, then it’s very hard for you to make good foreign policy decisions from a child’s perspective, I mean, hard, get it?  Foreign policy is all about judgment formed  before the age of ten, man-boy judgment as well as exotic mid-western apple-pie man judgment.

President Bush is not as enamored as most Americans of Obama’s foreign policy judgment. He gave a plug to Hillary calling her a “formidable candidate,” and Laura gave her a big boost when she observed that she’s just ‘trading up” from first lady. Mark my words, one way or another, George Bush is going to be running Hillary, for sure.    

Though Obama forgot to mention the quick “color me experienced” trip Hillary took with some Senate colleagues to Iraq and Afghanistan just before she started running, her only very own foreign policy experience I might add, that actually counts, cause it hasn’t been discredited already with his ‘she’s just a wife’ pie-in-the-face amusing yet lofty zapperoni, he might have been thinking of it when he mocked ‘stroll ‘n chew’ Congressional junkets:

You get picked up at the airport by a state convoy and a security detail. They drive you over to the ambassador’s house and you get lunch. Then you go take a tour of some factory or some school. Children do a native dance, and there is no opportunity to discuss policy with these children, none. Tells you nothing about a child’s life in an exotic foreign local before the age of ten, so, it’s useless, and a waste of tax-payer’s money.  

Kittenish Hillary pounced, knowing that her chief rival’s foreign policy résumé is as slender as his legs in spandex, once more conjuring a childish Obama out of thin air with no help whatsoever from him.  She brazen-hussedly borrowed a Republican talking point, even though she’d once accused John Edwards of “throwing mud” that was “right out of the Republican playbook,” when he suggested she was untrustworthy.  (Can you believe her nerve?)

“With all due respect,” she told a crowd in Iowa. “I don’t think living in a foreign country between the ages of 6 and 10 is foreign policy experience.”  Now we all know Rove has used that line dozens of times, and it’s merely coincidence that Obama actually said that his childhood equates to foreign policy experience right before she allegedly commented on his remark, when we all know she was just repeating Rove’s line, and without crediting him even, and don’t forget, Obama was a male child, and an exotic Harvard outsider.  

Really folks, is sleeping with the president in the White House between the ages of 45 and 53 foreign policy experience, or is it just sleeping?  Posing this question, by the way, isn’t a Republican talking point, because the Republicans really want Hillary to run, they are not pretending they want her to run so that she’ll lose and Rudy won’t have to debate her on terrorism, please, just ask them.  

Tags: Maureen Dowd, feminism, parody (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 85 comments

  •  Modo has been on a downward spiral... (8+ / 0-)

    ever since Michael Douglas dumped her for Catherine Zeta-Jones.

    •  Really? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Do Tell, greenboy

      Nu uh. Are you making that up? Because if that's true, I've just lost respect for Douglas.

      Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

      by Pager on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:20:02 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  What downward spiral? (0+ / 0-)

      Seriously. While occasionally she will have an absolutely brilliant column, the rest of the time it's just not worth the effort. I would rather read David Brooks (and I can't stand David Brooks).

      •  Exactly...Maureen Dowd is done..past tense..over (0+ / 0-)

        She is now a relic...and, unlike during the Gore period(remember when she ridiculed him mercilessly?)she is being scrutinized more often. But worse, she has become boring and her attacks, transparent.  And the NYT, which supports this stupidity...is enjoying less support as well.  Only Paul Krugman is worth reading.  Where are all the smart people?  They certainly don't seem to be at the NYT anymore. Maureen Dowd is the true version of woman hater...a sorry sorry sight.

        Good diary.  

    •  I actually think, and I say this in (0+ / 0-)

      all seriousness. She started to lose it after her Mom died. Her columns still make me laugh at times, but they are not the same as before.

    •  Maureen is GREAT (on Bush?Cheney) (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      irishwitch, cpresley, lily15

      and on how power works in Washington.  On Hillary though she falls into the trap.  She's profited from feminism but she doesn't really believe she needed it, it seems.  

      Hillary - Alternative Energy

      by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:38:10 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  MoDo is a standard-free bitch. (5+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Trix, HeavyJ, Do Tell, cpresley, MyOwnClone

        She treats everyone with the same level of acid drenched commentary whether they are doing an exemplary job or a terrible job.

        I'll never forget the column she ran on Hillary registering for gifts at a department store before leaving the White House - another accusation that was discredited. MoDo writes, "and what would Mrs. Clinton like? A twelve piece place setting of.... that costs a mere blah, blah, blah..." leading one to believe that Hillary had actually registered for what Modo was addressing. Of course, none of it turned out to be true. MoDo simply went through what the store made available and picked out the most expensive items they had attributing them to Mrs. Clinton - at least, that is how MoDo herself defined how she created the article.

        She's one of the most destructive commentators alive.

        The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

        by lorelynn on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:45:55 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Yeah. During the 2004 campaign (4+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Trix, irishwitch, cpresley, MyOwnClone

          all she could talk about was Wes Clark's argyle sweater - how could he wear such a thing.

          It does not take many words to tell the truth. - Chief Joseph - Nez Perce

          by Gabriele Droz on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:51:12 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  if I'd parodied her though (4+ / 0-)

            wouldn't have helped, obviously.  Wish someone would post links to the great diaries on her great qualifications, and her very hard work.  Hillary seems to me like the hardest working of politicians, and while some can disagree with her position on this or that, she's earned her place. It's so insulting that Obama, who is himself in a minority group, would use such a sexist smear.  I hope he takes it back. Calling someone out for a marital connection to power, but not the scads of those with blood ties, and Maureen pretending Diane made it on her own, when she 'took over' over dead bodies, not to mention all the guys, who supposedly shouldn't need an extra boost, but somehow most had one anyway?  

            Hillary - Alternative Energy

            by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:19:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  For once, we agree. n/t (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          lorelynn

          "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

          by Do Tell on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:11:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  ...and a time to every purpose under heaven. (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            cpresley, anna shane

            You'll find that you agree with me on much. What I don't approve of is attack diaries. And candidate supporters who don't engage in attacks view me as a  mild mannered poster.

            I stay out of pro-candidate diaries because everyone deserves their chance to chatter happily uninterrupted. I don't post attack diaries because I think they're wrong and bad.

            So, if you're a poster who supports any of the candidates besides Obama, you simply know me as someone who supports Clinton and gives props to your candidate.

            The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

            by lorelynn on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:41:36 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  Actually she is worse with Democrats (0+ / 0-)

          Remember what she did to Al Gore?  And at the time, she wrote columns comparing Bush with Gore...and guess who came across better? Maureen Dowd deserves nothing but contempt.  I agree she is not only a liar, but someone with no redeemable qualities.  She is a beltway plutocrat (I use DailyHowler.com language) snubbing her nose at anyone who would dare relegate her to the trash heap of past satirists...or denigrate what she has for so long taken for granted.

      •  She crucified Gore in column after column before (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Trix, irishwitch

        the 2000 election, she sucked up to Bush, and for the past several years she is scratching her head on how Bush and Cheney could have gone so wrong.

        She published falsehoods about Gore in her columns and wondered why he lost the election?  

        Could it have been her dishonest coverage (along with the other asshat media who were lying about Gore) as is well documented in this Rolling Stone article:

        The Press vs. Al Gore  Eric Boehlert

        Media people like Dowd have no shame, or no conscience, and they are one of many reasons why Bush is president today.  

        "I don't belong to any organized party, I'm a Democrat." Will Rogers

        by Do Tell on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:11:07 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  with all due respect (0+ / 0-)

      i believe your comment is sexist. It implies that girls get knocked for a loop when some love interest goes somewhere else, and it changes them.  Maureen has her own voice, and she got her gig by working at it, and gaining readership.  Like Hillary she's a girl, and doesn't deserve being downgraded because she hasn't married, and that her love life hasn't been entirely happy. My first thought on reading your comment was, Michael Douglas, why would she go out with him in the first place, but I guess that's a sign of me not appreciating the appeal of actors, and maybe he has some great qualities.  

      Hillary - Alternative Energy

      by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:56:44 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  "The face of the administration in (4+ / 0-)

    foreign affairs."

    I can't believe a Clinonite actually said that. Do they really think we are that stupid?  Was Madeline Albricht a %#@^! potted plant?

  •  Actually, it's hard to argue with Mo... (5+ / 0-)

    Hillary IS a phony who IS trading on her gender and IS trying to win by association with Bill.

    What part of those observations isn't true?

    God, sometimes you just don't come through... --T. Amos

    by Kaos237 on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:29:26 AM PDT

  •  you guys are missing it? (7+ / 0-)

    this is a parody of a sexist column by Maureen, to bring out the sexism more. Hillary has many accomplishments, on her own, before and after she married. There is no one who gets anywhere high without connections, she claimed that Diane and Nancy had, but Nancy is better connected than anyone, and Diane made it over dead bodies.  She was just a supervisor, another supervisor killed one more supervisor and the mayor, and she waltzed into power, like Rudy taking on the tragedy of 9/11 to get ahead.  

    Hillary - Alternative Energy

    by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:43:56 AM PDT

    •  It's easy to hoodwink anti-Hillary types. (6+ / 0-)

      Reasoning isn't their personal strong point.

      The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

      by lorelynn on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 11:47:17 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  I got it. Great job. I got our point, and it (6+ / 0-)

      was pretty entertaining.

    •  Ive never liked Dowd (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      irishwitch, MyOwnClone

      Her writing seems to be heavy on style which hides the substance- if there is any. They should bring back someone like Anna Quindlen. She writes a solid column for Newsweek.

    •  Yes but there's a big difference between someone (0+ / 0-)

      who makes it to the top through their own career, and someone who inherrits their fortune through family.

      •  not always (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        irishwitch, cpresley

        it's very hard to tell about advantages. There are few self-made presidents, Bill Clinton was one, but for the most part successful men and women have had head starts, families that could get them started. It's even more true in politics, if you're not there, you can't be noticed and elevated.  I guess you could say that Bush inherited his father's positions, since it was his father's supreme court nominees that called it for him, but no one else has that advantage.  There have been some great diaries on Hillary's actual experience, and what she did both before and after she married, but, as soon as you paint her with a one-liner, and claim nepotism, or whatever, then that erases her own accomplishments, everything gets tainted by that.  And calling someone just the wife is old hills sexism, what a man does he does entirely on his own with no help, but a wife, she's been taken care of by her husband.  

        Hillary - Alternative Energy

        by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:42:40 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I really don't think it's sexist (0+ / 0-)

          For example when Tom Arnold got his own TV sitcom, everyone said it was just because he was Rosanne's husband; so it works both ways.

          The reason Hillary is seen by some as the product of nepotism is not because she's a woman, but because her spouse paved the way for her. Had Hillary been the first Clinton to get elected president no one would be complaining about nepotism. However if Bill used Hillary's status to propel his own career, the charge would be made against him.

          You also have to step out and look at this from a different perspective.  It's an insult to all the women who achieved their political power without the benefit of an ultra powerful and famous husband to call Hillary self-made.  That doesn't mean Hillary is not self-made in other areas. She got into Yale law school on her own which is a huge achievement. But her political career was partly inherrited, though I give her credit for cleverly building on what she inherrited. A lot of first ladies would not have been able to do the same.

          •  hidden biases (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            cpresley

            One of the strengths of language is that you can say one thing when you mean another.  But, to do that there must already be a bias.  It's obvious that there are those that would never want a female president, but saying that isn't always socially acceptable, although plenty will out and out say it, and make menopause jokes, and what all.  So, they have to come up with a 'catch' word that says it without saying it outright.  LIke against bussing for against integration.  That's what Obama did in his speech, he evoked the 'wife' word without saying it, and wife comes with it's own set of prejudices, that are not exactly the same for everyone, but clearly means she got there through marriage and not on her own.  There are no women who've achieved real political power without help, at least not here, and probably no where.  Maureen used two examples that I exposed as examples of the opposite.  I think there are some congresswomen who came up grass roots, but none of them have gotten as far as presidential aspirations, too many road-blcoks for the unconnected.   If Laura Bush was appointed president by the supreme court you could say she inherited it, but there are many diaries that link to Hillary's many accomplishments,  and that she did them while married ought not to erase them. When there is a level playing field we can vote for someone who has never had influential help.  Electing a female president will help us get there, I think.    

            Hillary - Alternative Energy

            by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:06:16 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Sexists erase her accomplishments because it (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              cpresley, anna shane

              serves their purposes. Saying that she is the beneficiary of nepotism is, in and of itself, sexist because it denies that she had her own political career independent of his.

              The Watermelon - a comedy about how really weird things can happen! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDimaB95fK0

              by lorelynn on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:11:41 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Well I agree with you here (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              anna shane

              There are no women who've achieved real political power without help, at least not here, and probably no where.

              You're right. If Hillary wins the presidency she will arguabley the most powerful person in the world.  She will be the first woman to achieve that title, probably since Elizabeth I who also required nepotism.  The world is still just too sexist for a self-made woman to make it to the apex of political power.

      •  You mean like (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        anna shane

        Bush and Gore and Dodd?

        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

        by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:51:09 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  for three n/t (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          cpresley

          Hillary - Alternative Energy

          by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:53:10 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  Yes, them too (0+ / 0-)

          Indeed all through the 2000 election Chris Mathews was complaining that America was forced to choose between 2 legacies (Bush or Gore).  So it's not as if Hillary is being singled out for charges of nepotism. If anything Hillary tends to get a pass (Dowd's column being the exception).

          •  You are lacking the irony gene. (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            cpresley, anna shane

            All three men got where they were on the coat tails of parents. TWO of them probably would have done so anyway. Bush couldn't make a go of anything ecept the team, and he was jsut the owner, not the actuyal manager (and they only succeeded because he got the public to votye for a new stadium--he's good at spendign Other people's Money and letting others do ther eal work).

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:03:26 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Hillary got into Yale (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            cpresley, anna shane

            on her own grades.  She made a go of law on her own ability.

            The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

            by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:04:07 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  She's not applying for a job as a lawyer, she's (0+ / 0-)

              applying for a job as president.  She may have had a brilliant career as a lawyer, but it's her position as first lady that made her world famous and able to run for the president in the first place; and if she gets elected, it will mostly be because voters were quite happy with the way her husband ran the country.

              No one is disputing that Hillary is capable in her own right, but it's huge insult to Bill's political genius and enormous charisma to deny the huge opportunity he created for Hillary by becoming the most popular president of the 20th century.

              •  she was just a wifie? (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                irishwitch, cpresley

                this is the sexist belief, that women get ahead through marriage and men get ahead entirely on their own, with no help from their useless wives.  In the past that was entrenched in the legal system. Times are changing, but the old ideas about male superiority hang on. You think she was just sleeping? I think she was proofreading treaties.  

                Hillary - Alternative Energy

                by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:20:22 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Saying Hillary helped Bill become president is no (0+ / 0-)

                  more logical than saying George W. Bush helped his father become president.  So are you saying George W. Bush is self-made too, or was he just a useless son who contributed nothing to his father's success?

                  •  sure it is (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    cpresley

                    they were a couple, they lived together, and Bill got trashed for having plotted his way to the presidency with his smart lawyer wife.  If some guy starts a business and his wife helps, did he do it on his own?  Actually George tried to help his dad, with the fundamentalist Christian voters, and he presumably had more access to his dad than you would have had.  By the way, these are good questions, because they betray a prejudice that many have.  

                    Hillary - Alternative Energy

                    by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:45:35 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  case in point (0+ / 0-)

                      China's Zhang Yin, a business woman from China is considered the richest self-made woman in the world because she has a net-worth of roughly $3.5 billion.

                      And yet Helen Walton (wife of the late Sam Walton) has a net-worth of over $15 billion.

                      So why is the much poorer Zhang Yin considered the richest self-made woman? Because Mrs. Walton inherrited her fortune from her husband while Yin created the fortune herself.  But by your logic both women are self-made, because you seem to think that simply being the spouse of someone successful, you're entitled to claim equal credit for their achievements. I think such an attitude is an insult to self-made people everywhere.

                      •  that's not my logic (0+ / 0-)

                        why not the couple's money?  I'm sure there are plenty of wives, particularly of a certain generation, who considered being a wife as  an occupation, and would have a hard time seeing any 'wife' as having accomplished anything other than her wife-ness. That's why Obama's joke, that made his entire audience laugh, appeals to the right field, where a woman's job is to support her husband and obey him even.  

                        Hillary - Alternative Energy

                        by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:21:04 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

                        •  reply (0+ / 0-)

                          why not the couple's money?  

                          Because he made it. She didn't.

                          That's why Obama's joke, that made his entire audience laugh, appeals to the right field, where a woman's job is to support her husband and obey him even.

                           

                          But isn't that what you're arguing Hillary did. Devoted her life to making her husband president.

                          •  no, my point is (0+ / 0-)

                            that when a woman gets too close to power, that sexism comes to knock her down.  Calling someone just a wife is an implication that she has no identity of her own, that's my point.  Then it doesn't matter what she says, I did this or that, it's all nothing because of just being a wife. What if the idea for the business was hers?  Who would know? what if she did more than half of the work making the business a success, who would know?  Would that mean she devoted her life to him, or they devoted their lives to business success. what if the Clintons' have devoted their lives to public service, and he was first the main face of that public service?  The guys maureen mentioned, weren't elected or appointed anything that required confirmation either, and yet they have gigs on tv and they're in the big bucks, and no one minds giving them the credit that they claim.  

                            Hillary - Alternative Energy

                            by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:35:14 PM PDT

                            [ Parent ]

                            •  reply (0+ / 0-)

                              that when a woman gets too close to power, that sexism comes to knock her down.

                              I agree with you here.

                               

                              Calling someone just a wife is an implication that she has no identity of her own, that's my point.  Then it doesn't matter what she says, I did this or that, it's all nothing because of just being a wife.

                              Well regardless of whether you are male or female, if your partner is more successful, your identity will be overshadowed.

                              What if the idea for the business was hers?  Who would know? what if she did more than half of the work making the business a success, who would know?

                              Well then, she should have been smart enough to get the business in her own name.

                              Would that mean she devoted her life to him, or they devoted their lives to business success. what if the Clintons' have devoted their lives to public service, and he was first the main face of that public service?

                              Yes but I think that any smart wife could have helped Bill become president. But had Hillary not been lucky enough to find a man as charismatic and brilliant and Bill, I don't think she could have become first lady.

                              If Hillary could have become president on her own she would have done so. The fact that she required a husband to pave the way for her tells me she's not self-made.  

                              But at least she was smart enough to know that the world is too sexist to elect a self-made woman president, so she adopted a pragmatic strategy to achieve her goal.

                              •  maybe (0+ / 0-)

                                Maybe she loves him. Maybe he had ambitions she did not at that time share, and she was glad to help him achieve his dream. Maybe watching it go down made her realize that she wanted to run the country, cause she saw how it could be done, and she then developed that ambition.  

                                Hillary - Alternative Energy

                                by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:59:30 PM PDT

                                [ Parent ]

              •  AH, but YOUR complaint is she is (1+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                anna shane

                riding on Bill's coat tails.  I think you;re wrong,. She's in her second term as senator. Obama's in his first. BOTH were lawyers. Both successful. I DO think her time as first lady counts--because BILL is the one who has said she ws the face of his foreign policy in many ways,. She  did a lot more than Laura Bush or most first ladies, and if you dont' think she helped shape Bill's policy--well,t hen you deserve to be called a boy because you don't understand that in a marriage of equals--which this was, unlike the ttraditional  marriages most Presidents have had, where the wife is just a social director and hsotess-- that's what happens, especially if the wife is as knowledgeable and smart as Hill.

                Let me explain women's history to you, greenie.  Until the 60s women were EXPECTED to run the home and be wives and Mommies. They MIGHT go to college, but they didn't work after the babies came (int heory; in relaity, many did tomake ends meet).  If you had a college degree or a law degree, you didn't go back to work until they were in school.  You did Mommy Things.  MY generation--Hill's generation--was the first where women didnt' automatically quit an subordiabnte their lives to their hsuband's career.  Hill got pilloried for taht when Bill ran in 92.  If Obama cou6ns as a self amde man--so does Hillary.  Bill's name might have helped--but she wouldnt' ahve been relected if she didn't do a good job as Senator.

                WHy not scream about Teddie K while we're at it?

                The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:24:59 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  public record (0+ / 0-)

                  She  did a lot more than Laura Bush or most first ladies, and if you dont' think she helped shape Bill's policy--well,t hen you deserve to be called a boy because you don't understand that in a marriage of equals--which this was, unlike the ttraditional  marriages most Presidents have had, where the wife is just a social director and hsotess-- that's what happens, especially if the wife is as knowledgeable and smart as Hill.

                  Well all I can go by is what's on the public record, which shows that the only policy contribution she made to his presidency was her health care attempt, which nearly destroyed his presidency, helped give the dems their worst defeat of the 20th century, and cause Bill to send her into virtual exile because she was dragging down his approval rating. So not only was she not an equal in the relationship, but she appears to have been a net drag.

                  However if she wishes to claim she played a constructive role in the success of his presidency, she should open up the white house documents to historians to judge. Perhaps you'll be proven right one day.

                  •  there are some smart diaries (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    irishwitch

                    here at kos that look at her record.  I'm for open documents, and as far as I can see both Bill and Hillary have come out for that too. I don't know that it's smart, because whenever there is some record, there are ways to misrepresent it, but they say they're for it, and I think a lot about them is already public.  It wasn't the Bush presidency, they weren't the most  secretive ones.  

                    Hillary - Alternative Energy

                    by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:48:15 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                  •  Go back and vote for NAder, that (1+ / 0-)

                    Recommended by:
                    anna shane

                    whiny little spoiler.  

                    She has been a SENATOR for 8 years. THAT IS on the public record,

                    We KNOW already you hate Hill.  

                    The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                    by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 02:46:30 PM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

                    •  he does? (1+ / 0-)

                      Recommended by:
                      greenboy

                      I'm a little slow.

                      Hillary - Alternative Energy

                      by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 03:00:22 PM PDT

                      [ Parent ]

                      •  Apparently he does. (1+ / 0-)

                        Recommended by:
                        anna shane

                        Because this isn't the first time he's targeted her in diaries where he's posted. And I suspect form the "green" that he isn't touting environmentalism  but Naderism.    He truly coems across as having problems with women in geneal and Hill in particualr. I am an Edwards gal, but Hill isn't a bad chocie, because NONE of the cnadidates runnigna re bad choices. SOem may be better on soem issues than others, but they are solidly Dem.

                        The last time we mixed religion and politics people got burned at the stake.

                        by irishwitch on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 08:18:59 PM PDT

                        [ Parent ]

          •  he wasn't talking like that when (0+ / 0-)

            bush was running, at that time nepotism wasn't an issue at all, was seen as a plus for Bush, to get the advantage of his close relationship to a previous president. it's only brought up with Hillary and they bring the scare card, Jeb, into it now. What do you think they're really afraid of?  

            Hillary - Alternative Energy

            by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:10:45 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

  •  I love women (4+ / 0-)

    who discount women for discounting women. It's all so disconcerting to those of us who are not women and so very hard to keep up with ;~)

    I do assume you're a woman but there goes my sexism showing through, just think of all the men named anna. I'm sure i have made them feel dienfranchised in some way.

    Wish I had something stronger than aspirin.

    •  it's an uphill battle (4+ / 0-)

      Yep, I'm female, and I greatly dislike other females buying into arguments that some woman is getting unfair advantage from being a woman, or in this case a wife.   There is no level playing field, for women and the unconnected, and a woman seeking a powerful job has to contend with accusations of nepotism, while nepotism is rampant everywhere?  With blood ties, with big money backers, ...

      Hillary - Alternative Energy

      by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:09:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  It's not as if Hillary is being singled out (0+ / 0-)

        Maureen Dowd is the only prominent person I know of who blasted Hillary for nepotism. Most of the people I see being blasted for nepotism are men like George W. Bush. Rosie O'Donnel blasted Donald Trump for getting where he is through nepotism. Indeed Forbes magazine categorizes every billionaire on their rich list as either self-made or not self-made.

        •  I think the tone is different (0+ / 0-)

          it's with snickers, and the b... word, and it's mean-spirited.  Bush's dad was considered a plus for him, the dad was supposed to help him out, give him his old administration, and he got votes for that.  Donald had a head start, but not much, he started with some money, and no one takes Rosie's opinions very seriously.  Maureen is a girl columnist, and one expects a girl columnist to be sensitive to feminist issues and to not fall into sexist traps.  At least I expect that. I mainly like her, I like the way she writes in girl (that I parodied so well apparently that the first time I was accused of copying her column). She's girlie, I like that, and she socks it to power in a silly way. Her book was pretty darn good, exposed quite a bit of sexual role confusion in our society, but on Hillary she's just sexist, and I want her to know that some of us know it.  Do you think she'll like my parody?  It's supposed to be the supreme form of flattery, no?  

          Hillary - Alternative Energy

          by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 12:47:57 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Is Hillary the most qualified woman in the senate (0+ / 0-)

            There are other women in the senate who have been in the senate longer than Hillary, and did a better job standing up to Bush than Hillary did. There are a lot of women in congress, there have been women governors. And yet, because of the extreme fame and power that comes with being Bill Clinton's wife, Hillary gets to leap frog over all of them and has an excellent chance of being president.  A lot fo these women might consider it sexist for Hillary to advance over them, just because of the man she's married to.

            But for the most part Hillary's relationship with Bill is seen as a positive. In fact there was a discussion on Hardball which concluded that most people support Hillary because they like the idea of having Bill back in the white house.

            •  who knows? (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              cpresley

              she's the one that's running for president, the others aren't.  Do you ask if Obama or Edwards is the most qualified from the senate?  And if now, why not?  It's not a line you stand in,you have to stand up and state your own desire.  

              Hillary - Alternative Energy

              by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:08:57 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  But the difference is (0+ / 0-)

                Obama and Edwards are running on their own records; Hillary is running on her husband's presidency.  As for why Hillary is the only woman running, hillary's the only woman with the poll numbers to run, and she has those high poll numbers through association with the most popular president of the 20th century.

                •  that's the claim (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  cpresley

                  Obama has made it, Maureen made it, but many others disagree with you and consider that allegation to be diminishing to the accomplishments of women and disrespectful to the barriers to power.  Of course it would be better if we could chose our candidate from a level playing field. There is none.   There has never been a women elected president or vice- president. We have our first female speaker of the house.  And still  someone can call her a bitch and get laughs?  I think you're wrong about the poll numbers though, she wasn't highly rated when she sought the NY gig, she had to campaign hard and win hearts and minds, and then she worked in the senate, she wasn't sitting around polishing her toe nails.  

                  Hillary - Alternative Energy

                  by anna shane on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 01:28:42 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  No she was highly rated when she ran for senate (0+ / 0-)

                    If you look at Gallup's annual poll of the most admired women, Hillary won that poll by record numbers in the immediate aftermath of the Monica scandal. That was by far the highest point of her life in terms of public opinion, and many feel she won in New York because of the sympathy vote. That's a perfect example of how her position as Bill's wife directly benefited her career.

                    In addition Bill used his fund-raising talent and connections to raise money for her, and was even accussed of pardonig people to help Hillary score political points.

  •  Too Dead On (0+ / 0-)

    I think why the satire got mistaken for the real thing is that it was too dead on. If anything, the FauxDo is twice as long as the real column. I did a side by sidecomparison of a few passages and they are nearly interchangeable. You have to work hard to make fun of writing that veers so close to self-parody already.

    Dowd Report: All MoDo, All The Time(s)

    by momodo on Sat Nov 24, 2007 at 06:45:16 PM PDT

    •  that's if you think (0+ / 0-)

      spelling out the sexism makes sexism even stronger?  What a wild take on it.  What was different is that I made her actually say what she was just implying, she never used the 'wife' 'word,' and brought out the real message that is when clear laughable.  The irony is that Maureen took Hilary to task for noticing there are some 'feminist' issues in her candidacy, as if there were actually none, and Hillary was just bringing up a dead horse, but Maureen did it using several tried and true sexist ways of diminishing women's accomplishments, subverting them to male accomplishments. So it became a feminist issue and not just about one girl candidate.  But, thanks for noticing that I did a good parody of Maureen's writing.  

      Hillary - Alternative Energy

      by anna shane on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:59:40 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

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