NOLA and Netroots Nation

This diary is from a comment I made earlier today that I decided would be put to better use in a diary.  Here goes.

This morning, my buddy Darksyde issued this frontpage diary.

Netroots Nation sounds like it will be a huge success for a town that is currently knowing nothing but success.  In fact, several of our finest musicians, the Neville Brothers and [http://www.iguanas.com/ The Iquanas have relocated there for the time being.

It was a sad day for us when these guys left town.

When it was announced that Netroots Nation would be held in Austin, this thread ensued.  At that time I was ready to drop it as I felt my concerns had been addressed.  And I pushed it out of my mind.

However, a few days later, the headline of the Times-Picayune ran this article which brought back my doubts from before.  I believe if you read it, you'll understand why.

Look, I live here.  I've lived here a long, long time.  I have seen Mardi Gras (close to 1M or more people), Neurosurgery Conventions (50,000 people), Librarian Conventions, Denist's Conventions, Jazz Fest (650,000 people), French Quarter Fest (250,000 people) come through here. I'm sorry and I hope ya'll don't find this insulting but Netroots Nation might draw well, but do you expect more people than Mardi Gras?  We've accommodated these groups as if it was just another day.  And indeed, before people like the Presidential Debate committee and Netroots Nation ignored us, it was just another day.

We have the best trained police escort guys around. You will not find another, more hospitable group of people than us.  We will treat you in ways many of you have never been treated before.

If NOLA had room for the Presidential Debate next year, then my guess is, we had room for the Netroots Nation Convention next year, too.

The entire city has wifi, the one good thing Nagin managed to get up and running after Katrina. Please read this kossack diary by Louisiana 1976 and this one, also by Louisiana 1976.  We have state-of-the-art broadcasting equipment.  I believe one of these diaries goes into more detail.  

Before Katrina - New Orleans was the #1 Convention Center in the United States; the best equipped, plenty of rooms, huge, large, medium, small and in-between, venues available.

Once again, thank you for attempting to address the Gulf Coast's concerns about this but I think there might be more here than meets the eye.  I certainly hope not, but my concerns and all those of the people who's comments you read in those diaries I linked to are also concerned and, I'm sure would appreciate an answer.

Have a nice Sunday.  In the meantime, I'll be painting doorframes and worrying that someone doesn't fall off my balcony which doesn't have railings yet.

I'll sign off now, as I am beginning to feel my blood boil again.  I am torn between wanting to let you people have it but back off because I am hoping there will be a more acceptable answer.

I believe I have presented enough evidence to make it obvious why I doubt the explanations given here.  When my own newspaper front pages that we have availabity next year to hold a Presidential Debate, my radar goes up about Netroots Nation.

The following did not appear in the original post.

My husband and I have been wondering if the news of New Orleans' crime problems had a bearing on the decision not to hold Netroots Nation in New Orleans.  If that is so, we need to know.  It would only be fair.

Last month New Orleans hosted 23,000 Ophthamologists.

UPDATE:

Here are the links I thought had been carried over to this diary:

Here's the front page Times-Picayune article

Both of Louisiana
1976s diaries

•  Tips, we all live on tips

  As in Tipitina's.

  by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:05:27 AM PDT

  •  Can you add the link to Louisiana1976's diary

    in your post? Unfortunately, like most Gulf Coast bloggers on DKos, her diaries too often go unnoticed.

    by blueintheface on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:07:03 AM PDT

    •  Sorry. I just copied

      my comment which held all the links and usuall they continue over into the diary.

      I'll Update the diary with the links.

      Thanks.

      by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:11:23 AM PDT

    •  Links are now in place n/t

      by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:19:19 AM PDT

  •  Tips

    You must have posted this diary about the time I left to take my kid to Tipitinas for his 3 FREE hours of music instruction.  Of course, one more thing only available in NOLA.  I am also pissed about NN and the debate, but was out of town last week and I am just now catching up.  The decision makers must come out and be honest about the crime issue.  To be honest, I live in Metairie and prior to Katrina, I did not do much in the city, but now I go into the city all of the time and do not really feel threatened by the "crime".  After Katrina, we all got a different take on what to be fearful of, crime is low on the list.  Loosing NOLA is a real possibility and everyone in this country should be doing everything they can to help save the old girl, starting with conventions and tourism.  What the hell is wrong with you people?  What part of the ongoing Katrina tragedy do you not understand?

    by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:40:37 PM PDT

  •  I came to this diary...

    a bit late because I was away from a computer all day yesterday, but thanks so much for this wonderful post and for mentioning my diaries. I hope you don't mind if I promote it here, but I just posted a brand-new one called Real Progressives Support New Orleans. It's also about this matter, which still bugs me. I think we shouldn't let this matter drop until folks reconsider or until New Orleans is treated better.

    by Louisiana 1976 on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 06:49:22 AM PDT

    •  I hope you don't mind that

      I linked to your diaries but I think the powers that be and everyone else, for that matter, need to see that this issue has been brewing for a few days and begs clarification.

      We're hoping to have a Meet-up Dec. 6th either in NOLA or Metairie.  Would you be available to come?  

      by nolalily on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 07:41:38 AM PDT

      •  I don't mind---

        you linking to my diaries. In fact, thanks so much for doing  so! Because I want folks to read them and often they seem to zip off into oblivion. Also, in previous diaries of mine, I've linked to yours and other people's I've found that are particularly good, so...

        by Louisiana 1976 on Tue Nov 27, 2007 at 05:45:36 AM PDT

•  Austin is becoming a red city. More and more

  People are being relocated here, bringing more and more red state-values voters.

  Our oasis of blue is drying up

  by Goodbye Kitty on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:07:38 AM PDT

  •  Yes, I've heard this, too, but

    I don't think that that would have a bearing on where the convention was held in your case.  You still have the liberal foothold - hope ya'll can keep it.  Cities that turn red get ugly - at least that's my experience.

    Don't get me wrong.  I like Austin.  My husband's company is located there.  We could easily be living there, but the truth is:

    Austin- you're solvent
    NOLA - we aint.

    good luck keeping Austin blue.

    by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:24:31 AM PDT

    •  I am from Austin.

      It would be huge fun for me if Netroots 2008 were in Austin.
      But New Orleans needs it more, and deserves it.

      by NogodsnomastersMary on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 07:13:10 AM PDT

      •  Thanks, for your generosity

        of spirit.  Of course, you are a Texan!!

        by nolalily on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 07:35:19 AM PDT

•  My suggestion

  would be to contact whoever was in charge of pitching NOLA as the location and talk to them. Each city that was nominated had a team of local activists behind them. Part of the selection process was that city's team's ability to make a compelling argument for why to hold the convention there.

  NOLA is certainly compelling, for the reasons you state and many more. This Austinite would have been happy to travel there for it. But it's not fair to simply blame the people who made the final decision without knowing how your hometown was pitched and presented.

  by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:25:03 AM PDT

  •  I was given an explanation

    by gina.  I am basing my response to her explanation as found on Netroots Nation

    The plan was to go over the '08 contract with the committee before, during or right after the convention, but we never found a time when one of us was not flying around some corner. But the problem with the NoLa venue arose during and immediately after our convention in Chicago because we realized it would be too small to hold our growing community. It was way too small. There was simply no way to make the main panel room work. We thought about simulcasting the main ballroom events in other meeting rooms to accommodate our size and we thought about shoe-horning ourselves into the space... but neither of those would have honestly worked.

    I believe the way, way too small part is a, well, frankly, a lie.

    by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:31:59 AM PDT

    •  Do you know

      what the venue in question is? Is it not the main convention center?

      I'd direct your questions regarding these specifics directly to gina, and see if you can get involved in planning the proposal for NOLA for NN'09. You seem like a strong advocate for your city, so it can't hurt! :-)

      by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:40:29 AM PDT

      •  Thanks, kath25 -

        I don't know the venue and I think you're idea is a great one.  I am so sad everytime we are passed over as I know we have so much more to offer.

        by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:44:43 AM PDT

        •  Well

          if it makes you feel any better, a huge academic conference in my field is slated for NOLA in spring 2009, and most of the people I know here at school are planning to go, in no small part to help the local economy... So that's something! :-)

          by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:47:51 AM PDT

          •  :^)

            :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^)
            :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^):^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^) :^)

            by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:58:07 AM PDT

            •  Heh

              You say that now, but when your town is awash in a few hundred scholars of culture, media, etc., and are verbally deconstructing everything in eye-shot, you may change your tune. ;-)

              by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:03:05 AM PDT

              •  I'd welcome it.

                thanks.

                by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:50:00 AM PDT

              •  Thank them for me.

                And we like ALL kinds of people, the wierder the better.  LOL!

                by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:53:15 AM PDT

      •  I doubt it's the main convention center

        It would be way too big for Netroots. That thang works best when you get into conventions running tens of thousands

        by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:58:37 PM PDT

        •  Partitions

          The convention business is scaled down and the convention center found a way to partition off the halls to pick up smaller meetings.  This was done several months ago.  

          by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:54:19 PM PDT

        •  It can be divided.

          I went to the first New Orleans Dental Association Convention there and it has many small, medium and large conference rooms and the exhibition area can easily be divided into smaller sections.  And, by the way, ALL of the speakers donated their speaking fees for us and the American Dental Association gave very big financial donations to dentists in the recovery area and the dental school.  I was a delegate the convention this last year and I was in tears listening to all that had been done.   I had NO idea.

          by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:56:29 PM PDT

    •  Calling them liars?

      Do you have some evidence to back that up? Because, frankly, I find that offensive. Before you go around calling people liars, you damn well better be able to back it up. I don't care how passionate you are about this or how unfairly you think your city has been treated. Otherwise, I think you owe them an apology.

      by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:45:49 AM PDT

      •  Not liars, hypocrits. nt

        by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 01:36:17 PM PDT

        •  Again, where's the justification?

          (And she charged them with lying, not hypocrisy.)

          I call bullshit.

          by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 01:49:39 PM PDT

          •  I am speaking for myself.

            I am calling the Democrats hypocrits.  The people that have fought to save an American city, right and left, have looked to our political parties for help.  We BEGGED for help and were treated as the beggars we were.  The right trashed us from the beginning to protect themselves from their own utter incompetence.  "You live below sea level, you are an evil city where those gays have parties, buldoze the shithole down."  Where was the left?  "Gee, I really feel for you man but global warming is going to get you anyway."  No statement of Katrina in the state of the union vs. no statement of Katrina in Pelosi's first 100 hours.  We were left to vend for ourselves, to rebuild a city with no governmental leadership at any level.  I tell you it is hard and heart breaking.  The truth is that the support we have gotten, besides the ceaseless efforts of the locals, has been the volunteers from all over the world, not politicos.  It has been church groups, and ecologists, and students on their break.  It has been musicians and film makers.  It has been ordinary citizens that cared that people in their own country had been abandoned.  It has been great organizations like the American Library Association that bravely was the first association not to cancel their convention in New Orleans after the storm.  Again and again and again New Orleans has been rejected by political organizations that could have made a difference to the city.  As I told Mr. McCurry, I won't expect anything from them anymore.  My heart has been broken enough.  

            by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:19:36 PM PDT

            •  And you're right about that.

              What happened to NOLA is an abomination. It is a very dark mark on our country. And while much of this was the direct result of republican policies, cronyism, and criminal neglect, the response from democrats has been unacceptable.

              I don't know when that's going to change. But it needs to. My uncle in OK is retired from the Corps of Engineers. He knows people who were devastated because they had spoken up and told the truth and were ignored or threatened. They are professionals who have dedicated their careers to preventing what happened to NOLA. And they weren't allowed to do their jobs. Bill Clinton made it a point to appoint professionals to staff FEMA--and it worked. Bush chose political cronies.

              It's hard for me to figure out why democrats aren't doing more--this is what we stand for. I expected hearings early this year after we took back the congress. This is a national disgrace.

              by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:41:51 PM PDT

            •  "Political Organizations"

              could have made a difference.  No shit, what about Netroots Nations?  Is it not a political organization?

              by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:58:06 PM PDT

      •  Perhaps it was rude.

        Maybe the only venues they checked out were too small, but, homogenius, there are plenty to venues large enough - maybe too large.  Therefore, to say that NOLA doesn't have venues large enough is a lie.

        Sorry, if I offended.  I am definately angry about this and have attempted to maintain some decorum while asking for clarification.  However, the four or five people I've mentioned this to in New Orleans, including my husband, are alot more angry about this and have had more choice words than I have used here for the situation.

        by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:20:47 PM PDT

        •  I'm sorry, but you are misquoting.

          You said "Therefore, to say that NOLA doesn't have venues large enough is a lie."

          But the quote you pulled from the NN site says:

          "...the problem with the NoLa venue arose during and immediately after our convention in Chicago because we realized it would be too small to hold our growing community. It was way too small."

          I know you to be a fair person. This quote refers to one venue--meaning one hotel/convention center, not NOLA as a whole. That would be a foolish statement.

          The problem is that you are talking about a situation that arose at the end of the selection process, not the beginning. It sounds like the people from NOLA had put together their best proposal based on what was available and that it came up short. And if that's the case, there may not have been time to find other options, or it may be that they had already exhausted the available options. In any case, I encourage you to get answers directly from the people involved and not drawing conclusions based on inference.

          And respectfully, don't call people liars before you have the facts. Your anger is real and justified. Just please save it for the people who deserve it.

          by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:10:21 PM PDT

          •  NOLA Venues

            All sizes are available.  We need the truth not platitudes.

            by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:01:05 PM PDT

            •  Available 12 months out?

              If you were a big meeting planner then you know that's very late in the game and choices are limited.

              Platitudes, my ass.

              by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:15:08 PM PDT

              •  Bookings

                I booked Gulf Coast conventions a year, sometimes less then a year out.  It can be done.  After Katrina most NOLA conventions were cancelled and there are numerous holes in the schedule.  Morial Convention Center is partitioning off halls to size as needed and is connected to the Hilton.  The Convention Center is actually gearing to small to midsize venues such as NN.  Did anybody try the Pontchatrain Center?

                by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:43:31 PM PDT

                •  Did anyone PROPOSE Pontchartrain?

                  From what I understand, the NOLA proposal was being done by folks outside the area who did the best they could.

                  It may well be that there could have been a package put together that would equal or surpass Austin's, plus or minus. But that's not what NN had in their hands when they needed to make a decision.

                  You, of all people, should be able to understand this. At the eleventh hour, the NN team had to make a decision. From what I gather, the NOLA venue they had was significantly smaller than Austin, and they didin't have the prospect of a larger venue in sight.

                  By all means get the facts about this. But what I'm hearing from the people involved was that they wanted to book it in NOLA, but the package they were presented with wasn't what they needed.

                  In any case, I haven't heard anything that indicates that they did anything to avoid NOLA. Quite the opposite--it appears that they did everything they could to make it happen based on the information available. If you have different information (not inference or speculation), please share it with us. I think there are a lot of people here who would like to know.

                  by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:24:48 PM PDT

                •  chigh

                  You and I are looking at this like New Orleanians.  We KNOW why this is an issue.

                  I think the committee was not from here.  No one has specifically come out and stated it just like that, but kind of.

                  What I'd like to know is:

                  1.  Who put together and presented the New Orleans package?  Were they local or were they not?

                  2.  If they were not, but other towns were, why wasn't New Orleans' committee local?

                  The rest of the questions fall in line from there.

                  I do feel that some of these people have attempted to answer our questions and others have been talking down to us. You were an event planner here in New Orleans, but no one has asked your help or advice nor respected the fact that you might have inside knowledge that they lack.  They should be asking you questions.

                  by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:38:47 PM PDT

                  •  Answer

                    The NOLA "package was put together by folks outside the area".  Decisions - I never made a rash decision - I always had several packages from which to choose and always, but always plan b and plan c.

                    by chigh on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 11:52:42 AM PDT

              •  The problem with your argument

                is that New Orleans is waiting for a Presidential Debate to book less than 12 months out.

                by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 08:40:19 PM PDT

                •  Unless you have spec sheets side by side...

                  Don't bother. Either compare apples to apples or back off.

                  The only way to make a legitimate comparison is to compare the Netroots Nation requirements against the available venues and the Debate requirements against its available venues. But for the debate you have to factor in the politics and economic interests of all the players.

                  by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:16:20 PM PDT

                  •  Spec Sheets

                    If the Chicago and Las Vegas specs had been available to someone in NOLA we could have created a package.  Can we have them now to plan for next year?

                    by chigh on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 11:54:05 AM PDT

      •  Hold up a sec

        That NOLA was allegedly "too Small" a venue is the only explanation that's been offered for why it wasn't chosen.

        That is patently false.

        Now there may be other valid reasons- competing conventions, etc. But that's not what's been put out there.

        The folks on the gulf have listened to a lifetime's worth of lies in the past two years. They are both  a little sensitive and a little suspicious these days.

        Frankly, I'd also like to hear a fuller explanation of why it wasn't chosen. I'm a little suspicious that one hasn't been forthcoming.

        by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:27:37 PM PDT

        •  The AVAILABLE venue

          By Netroots Nation own addmission, they could not book 18 to 24 months in advance.  It is my understanding, the available venues are/were not large enough to accomodate this growning event.

          by gloryous1 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:50:35 PM PDT

          •  And what was the available venue?

            This is like pulling teeth

            by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:49:31 PM PDT

            •  I guess that's what I find

              exasperating.  If they would just name the venue, then we'd know.

              by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:53:59 PM PDT

              •  I think they are afraid of stepping on toes.

                Please tell us.  How do you expect us to change what needs to be changed if we don't get good feedback?  I sent the response I got from Mr. McCurry to the New Orleans Tourist and Trade Association for just that reason.  This is NOT the time to be delicate.  HELP US!

                by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:00:20 PM PDT

          •  Advance Bookings

            NOLA is the place to come at the last minute and make a deal as many years of future bookings were cancelled after Katrina.

            by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:41:27 PM PDT

      •  Crime or Unions

        The people of NOLA need honesty and the explanation does not fly with the facts on the ground.  Sound familiar?

        by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:55:23 PM PDT

        •  I bet you it is union.

          Talk to the unions and ask them if you can make an exeption.  They have been VERY supportive of New Orleans in our time of need.  I bet they would want to help us in any way possible.

          by doctorj2u on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:03:14 PM PDT

    •  "Too Small"

      In a former life I was a meeting planner for a Forture 500 company that had frequent meetings of all sizes in NOLA because of the variety of venues available.  NN really needs to come clean on the specific hotel and convention facilities they were dealing with so the toursim industry can understand the problems and get this shit fixed.   Did NN only deal with the one union facility available?  The debate committee also needs to put the criteria and info in the public domain.  Can you imagine how it feels to loose the debate to Oxford, MS, a town that does not meet the first criteria of enough hotel rooms?

      So, what is it crime or union facilities?  If it is lack of union hotels, then thought should have been given to balancing this principle with giving help and assistance to NOLA and her people.

      by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:52:00 PM PDT

      •  I think they made a concerted effort, chigh.

        They even decided to overlook the fact that we are a "right to work" state and don't have unions.  I just think the ball must have gotten dropped.  At first I thought there might have been some other issue either political or social but I'm thinking differently now.  Still, there are alot of questions that need answering.

        Downthread someone posted a link to NOLAN's explanation.  I'll read it later.  I need a break from this.

        by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:14:01 PM PDT

  •  Just from my view

    Out here on the West Coast, this year's selection process seemed extremely opaque, especially as compared to previous years, and it's not clear how the decisions were made. Who did the pitching, who did the deciding?

    by eugene on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:02:31 AM PDT

    •  From what I understand

      local groups of DFA/Democratic Party/campaign workers/activists etc. got together to make a pitch, which was then given to the Netroots Nation selection committee.

      Here in Austin the committee was comprised of people from Democracy for Texas, I think, which is a DFA-related group. Many of them are also working on the Noriega campaign, I think.

      Frankly, as someone completely and utterly removed from the process I don't know the timeline. Maybe there's something on the website? Or something diaried here months back?

      by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:05:29 AM PDT

      •  Those kinds of deliberations

        Really ought to be done in public, or the online equivalent of it. (Not necessarily webcasting, but "hey here's Austin's pitch, and New Orleans' pitch, and here's what the members of the selection committee are thinking, what say you all?")

        by eugene on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:09:59 AM PDT

        •  Great idea. n/t

          by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:15:49 AM PDT

        •  I think

          at the least it would be good to know who the finalists are. I can understand the committee's trepidation to a degree given the sheer VOLUME of response they would get. There are also all of the issues such as union/non-union facilities, logistics, etc. There's also cost, which is a huge factor. Some will be more important to the committee than others.

          I do think as it gets bigger, however, it would be nice to add some additional transparency to the process. But no matter what, no matter where it is, people will be disappointed. Such is life. :-)

          Are there any examples of comparative groups having open deliberations about where to have the convention?

          by kath25 on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:15:50 AM PDT

          •  We did

            Back in 2006. The discussion about where to have the first yKos was fairly open. Vegas was controversial but because the discussion was so open, people understood.

            It's not about satisfying everyone, that's impossible. But our goals should be for open dialogue and transparent decision-making processes. Progressive ideas are at their core about introducing more participatory democracy into our daily lives. That doesn't necessarily mean we all vote on where to go, but it would mean at minimum that deliberations are out in the open and that we all get some way to deliver our feedback, not merely at the outset of the process but all along the way.

            I do know that the AHA's decisions about this are open. Back in the '90s the AHA membership passed a resolution forbidding the convention from being held in a place that has discriminatory laws or flies the Confederate flag. In 2005 (I think) the OAH moved its conference at the last minute from SF to San Jose because of a strike at the hotels. That decision was also made through open deliberations, which didn't quell the dissenters, but at least made it clear that the organization wasn't being secretive.

            Open deliberations are key to keeping any movement and/or organization together.

            by eugene on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:22:15 AM PDT

      •  Who were the DFA

        members from NOLA?  I know a few.  Not real inspiring in general.  

        IMO, it should have been Louisiana 1976, Gilda Reed, me, pico, Crashing Vor and a few others.

        by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:27:04 AM PDT

        •  Did you all get together

          and make a pitch for NN to be held in Nola?

          by pattyp on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 12:29:06 PM PDT

          •  I didn't know that

            that was the way it was going to be set up.  No one asked me to participate or maybe I missed the notice that went out.  Did one go out?  I don't know.

            All I want to know is, who from New Orleans made the pitch?  I'd like to talk to them.

            by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 01:23:28 PM PDT

            •  Yeah.

              The YearlyKos/NN convention has been very much a DIY effort from the beginning. If someone or a group of someones from a particular place want their city to be the host, they do the necessary footwork and present it to the NN organizers for consideration. I don't recall a specific notice going out, but having read most of the YK/NN diaries since it began and checking in at the website, it's clear it's entirely a volunteer effort and they are always looking for people to help out. I'm sorry it didn't work out for Nola this year, but it's certainly not too early to get together with others in your area to put a conference package together for 2009.

              by pattyp on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:26:56 PM PDT

              •  Necessary Footwork

                If Gina had a NOLA package ready at the Chicago convention, who in NOLA put it together?

                by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:52:08 PM PDT

                •  No idea.

                  I'm not involved with NN. I suggest perusing the NN website for more info.

                  by pattyp on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 06:19:08 PM PDT

                  •  Runaround

                    We keep getting referred to the NN website which explains nothing specific.  Which venue and who represents NOLA?

                    by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 08:24:28 PM PDT

                    •  Like I said

                      I don't have that information. I'm not involved in NN planning in any way. Reading the posts on the NN website was just a suggestion. You'll have to contact one of the organizers for those details I guess.

                      by pattyp on Mon Nov 26, 2007 at 02:15:22 PM PDT

            •  Last Discussion on this site

              I remember contacting the hotels, tourist bureau, the Landrieus, convention center, WWL radio  and requesting they get in touch with NN.  Nobody indicated that anything else was required.  

              by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:50:18 PM PDT

      •  DFA

        Well 2 of the NOLA DFA activists were (Langhoff) and are (Reed) busy running for office, repairing their homes and businesses and could have been too busy to pitch anything.  

        by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:46:29 PM PDT

        •  Sorry Langhoof lost.

          How about Gilda?  How'd she do?

          by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:52:17 PM PDT

          •  Gilda

            She is running for Jindal's seat in the Feb or March election.  

            by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:54:26 PM PDT

            •  Someone's been asleep.

              Must be me.

              by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:49:43 PM PDT

•  Nolalilly

  You obviously feel very strongly about this, for good reason.  I can't answer all your questions, because I wasn't the one who performed the search (that was Nolan, our Logistics Director).

  However, I can answer your question about crime -- the answer is a definitive "no," -- that had nothing to do with it.  In fact that issue never even crossed our mind.

  The truth is, we had an affordable NOLA venue in mind, but ultimately, the main ballroom in that venue was just too small.  We would have had to have breakout rooms where people watched the keynote speakers on close-circuit TVs.  And the other NOLA venues were just too expensive.  

  Also, you should know that at YK07 we had a powerful, well received panel on rebuilding New Orleans.  It is an issue that was important to the organizers then, and will continue to be an important one this year and in the future.

  Anyway, I am on my way out for the day, and can't respond to comments.  But I know how important this issue is to you, and know you are very hurt by the decision.  I hope you you will believe that we wanted to do NOLA, and it was our first choice.  However, on short notice, we just could not locate an affordable venue that met our logistical needs.

  by pontificator on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:29:47 AM PDT

  •  My question would be then,

    did ya'll search for another venue?  Did you even try?  Because, I know this town, I've attended conventions here and I live here.  I just can't believe there was no suitable space but I'm willing to listen.

    by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:36:24 AM PDT

    •  In all fairness, Lily--

      I think the majority of YK attendees would be in favor of Nola. But I think your question puts the equation backwards. In any grassroots event of this type (as opposed to a professional convention or trade show) it's up to the locals to propose a package that meets the needs of the event. They are best suited to do the considerable amount of footwork necessary.

      With all due respect, I really think this diary is premature. You need to talk to your local people who were promoting Nola for next year. It wasn't up to the NN people to go looking for the venue--that's what the local folks should do. I have observed this in several other organizations that I have participated in.

      However, I would also like it if Nola was given some extra assistance and support because y'all have your hands full. But having local support and involvement for a grassroots-based event like this is critical.

      I understand your concern. But I really think you need to get more of the facts. I know this is very close to your heart (as it should be). I hope everyone reading this understands where your passion about this is coming from. Your city has been devastated through criminal neglect and plundering by the bushies and their cronies. And you deserve all the help you can get. But it sounds like the organizers couldn't make the proposed venue work and didn't have time to find an alternative.

      by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:27:03 AM PDT

      •  Thanks,

        Who are our local people?  If I knew who they were, then I'd maybe get the answers I'm looking for.

        Names!  I want names!  I've asked a few times in this thread but so far, no names!

        by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:29:39 AM PDT

      •  Locals

        In the last NN discussion after Chicago, no one indicated that the locals had to put the package together.  Who put the NOLA "too small" package together that Gina had in Chicago?

        by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:57:37 PM PDT

    •  Deals

      There are always deals that can be made in NOLA if you know the right people.

      by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:53:38 PM PDT

  •  I don't mean to sound

    unreasonable, either, pontificator.  I know you're trying to help me here.

    by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 09:37:24 AM PDT

    •  It's ok

      You're allowed to sound unreasonable, given all you've been through.  

      We really tried.  Nolan knows the specifics, but I know that when our team was in Chicago we all wanted to do NOLA, and we tried everything we could to make it happen.  We just couldn't do it.  Also, remember a huge dermotologist convention, where all the attendees' registration fees are paid by their employers, is going to be much much more expensive, with much much higher registration fees, then a grassroots convention like ours.  You can't just point to another convention (which may have been planned years in advance), and assume that we could easily do the same thing.

      Anyway, I am at work today (bleah), and can't afford to get into a long thing on this or I'll be stuck in the office forever.   But, in closing, I know why you are so upset, and I would probably feel the same way if I were in your shoes.  I just hope that you will believe that we tried our best.

      by pontificator on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 10:09:25 AM PDT

      •  Grassroots

        There is no other city in the country that has had to rely on "grassroots" just to survive more then NOLA.

        by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:59:32 PM PDT

  •  Don't you think

    That people would be willing to put up with a minor inconvenience such as watching the keynote from the next room over if that's what it took to be in New Orleans?

    by eugene on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:08:13 AM PDT

    •  eugene -

      we have plenty of venues where this would not be necessary.  I just don't know if they would have been available.

      by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:30:22 AM PDT

      •  Or affordable.

        Remember we're not a major corporate convention that can throw around thousands of dollars at every problem that comes up. Have you ever been involved in booking meetings, conferences, or conventions of any size? The costs vary widely and the devil is always in the details. We don't have money to throw around and we're not desireable to every venue. We're not going to be spending money on a lot of extras that they make big profits on like a lot of groups.

        by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 11:49:32 AM PDT

        •  Well, I did this blind

          search for the second week in June for 5 nights at the Holiday Inn in the Quarter.  20 floors, best guess would be 30 to 40 rooms per floor(couldn't get the exact number).  If the convention is held somewhere other than there, I think the rates are about what I am going to link you to here.

          by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 01:57:09 PM PDT

          •  That's only one piece of it.

            You keep picking at different pieces of it. That's not going to prove anything. Why bother? Until you talk to the people that actually worked on promoting NOLA and get all the facts, you're just looking for individual pieces that support your opinion. But without looking at the whole picture, it's worthless. That's the only way to compare apples to apples.

            by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:08:36 PM PDT

            •  I know it's only one piece of it.

              Please, don't insult me.  I'm 57 years old on this earth and have organized a few things myself - nothing as big as netroots but i understand that it is not simple.  I've already done a small inventory in my head of what is needed and it continues to grow.

              So, my dear homogenius, who has attempted to help me even though I believe you are finding this difficult, don't talk down to me.

              I gave that room example because someone said they couldn't find anything under $200 in New Orleans.

              I find this exasperating because conventions are held here everyday.  It is hard to believe that Netroots Nation couldn't be one of them.

              by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:25:07 PM PDT

              •  I'm sorry it appeared that way.

                I didn't mean to insult you or talk down to you. I'm only a few years younger. I'm frustrated because I know your pain and frustration is real. But I don't believe that anyone tried to short NOLA. Maybe you'll find that some mistakes were made or that some things should have been done differently. My guess is that you probably will. But I really don't expect that you'll find that it was intentional.

                I hope you get some serious, detailed answers. But mainly so you can stir up support for attracting next year's NN. You know, a lot of Olympic cities use their failure at one games to persevere on a future attempt. Beijing and Athens did. Several other cities are doing so for the future.

                There's a lot of support here for NOLA. Even if you can't devote a lot of time to it with everything you have going on (and I continue to wish you all the best in recovering--house, mind, and spirit), there's still a lot you can do to bring folks together. If you feel you don't have enough resources there, ask other Kossacks to pitch in. Ask the NN folks how you can put together a plan that gives them what they need. You'd be doing them a favor if you could deliver that for them--I'm sure they'd be delighted.

                One possibility is this: Do some research and get your questions answered. Put the word out to local folks and put your heads together. Somewhere in this process put together a diary and outline what you are doing and how folks can help. Set a goal of raising the bar on how a local effort can work to attract NN to your city. I bet you'll find more support and encouragement than you can imagine.

                Bringing NN to NOLA is a worthy goal in many ways. It would be good for NOLA. It would be good for the netroots to be there in person. It would be good for raising awareness.

                I'm not trying to sugar coat your frustration about NN '08. And I'm not just going to say it's water under the bridge. But I think you would benefit the most by getting as much information as you can, voicing any concerns that remain, and then looking forward. I think there is a great opportunity here. I'm sorry if there is any way that our net-community let you guys down. But I encourage you to get what you can from it and look ahead.

                by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:56:16 PM PDT

                •  One question Nolalily needs answered

                  before she can do anything is this:
                  who was on the committee pitching NOLA this time?
                  There's no point having Nolalily re-invent the wheel.

                  by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:43:56 PM PDT

                  •  Unless someone reading this knows...

                    The best place to find out would be to write the folks at Netroots Nation. They should be able to put her in touch with the right people.

                    by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 03:50:27 PM PDT

                •  Know what?

                  I'm beginning to put together an idea of what might have happened.  I don't think anyone tried to "short" New Orleans.

                  But, either the NOLA team wasn't able to put together a good enough package or Netroots Nation couldn't organize it, or something along those lines.  At least I'm hearing a little of that. There is no sin in either.  Obviously, as you and a few others have said, it isn't easy putting something like this together.

                  I'd like to know who from NOLA put it together.  If anyone knows, ask them to email me.  Chances are, I might even know that person.  I'd like to help out putting one together for next year.  I'd feel like I was throwing a gigantic party for my friends!!!  (I know it's alot harder than that, but...).

                  I just want someone to say, "sorry, we're green and we take responsibility for it"  or,  "Here's where we tried to book (name of venue) and they were full for next year."  That's all.  I've heard some explanations bordering on both of these, but not quite.

                  by nolalily on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 04:02:52 PM PDT

                  •  "Throwing a gigantic party for my friends"

                    That is how you need to look at these things and they usually work out.  Although, my husband always said I lost my sense of humor until the dam thing was over, but everyone participating=guests had a great time.    

                    by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:11:32 PM PDT

              •  Age=57

                We are the same age nolily.  I was formerly a corporate meeting planner in NOLA.  If I had known we were to put the package together, we could have all gotten together and done so.  I did not know, maybe I missed it due to Katrina brain.

                by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:06:34 PM PDT

            •  Crime, Unions, Size, Local Packages

              So for these are the excuses.

              by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:03:12 PM PDT

            •  NOLA Promoters

              Please step forward.

              by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:04:05 PM PDT

        •  Sponsors

          I thought the committee was going to look into corporate sponsorships.  That would have covered the "extras".

          by chigh on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 05:02:10 PM PDT

    •  Not Me...

      ...As a YK06 and 07 volunteer, once you start breaking things into pieces, it's hard to keep things together.

      How about hotel prieces in the $200 range?  Is that worth the broken keynotes?   How about having it in August?

      Witness the complaints about the 07 location.  "Too big."  "Venues too far apart."  "Hotels too expensive (Mine was $140!  Wha???)"  "Not adequater recycling (yeah, really)"  Look, you cannot please everone in these decisions...but if folks are interested in NOLA NN09, now is the time to get it started.

      But first, find me hotel accomodations in the $150 range.  I wanted to go to NOLA on vacation this spring and it was a no-go due to the hotel costs.  Maybe optometrists have more money...

      by InquisitiveRaven on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 12:22:54 PM PDT

      •  Exactly.

        Most people don't realize how long the lists of requirements are for something like this. And there are always trade-offs.

        It's not enough to say "NOLA has umpteen gillian hotel rooms and xyz thousands of square feet of convention space. Finding a venue that has all the necessary facilities and is available AND affordable is difficult enough planning 3-5 years ahead.

        I also think people need to understand that we're not yet at a place where we can go that far out. This is still a young endeavor. I have seen organizations take over a decade to extend their planning two or three years ahead. Back in the '90s the Olympics went from six years to seven years ahead in selecting host cities (with another two years for candidate cities planning their bids and winning national support). It represents a big step forward to select your location for the following year before the current year's event happens. Moving from a one-year calendar to a two-year calendar is a very big deal.

        by homogenius on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 12:43:49 PM PDT

        •  Very good points.

          I know the Columbus(OH) Convention Center.  I've been to more than one convention here.  I know how they are run.  I know how big they are.  I'm not sure why Columbus didn't make the cut, but I am very confident that they can handle large conventions well.  Because, I've been there in one of the largest annual conventions they host.

          Availability is key as well.  Annual conventions will book their space two or even three years in advance.  Even if you have the ideal space, a venue may well be booked up solid for two years for the time period you want to use it.  I'm sure many people know of conventions like this - CENTS in Columbus, DragonCon in Atlanta are two I can name.  Once you get to a certain size, the number of venues that can serve you well becomes quite limited.  Then you tend to become locked into one venue.  For traveling conventions like WorldCon, they do use a competitive bid process where groups put together bids or pitches.  

          Again, large (realistically - very large) conventions usually work two years out in order to lock in the venues they need.  Less than that, and getting a large venue is more about luck than planning.

          by Fabian on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 01:58:34 PM PDT

      •  That really doesn't make sense

        I don't know where you were looking, but in the central business district alone (and that doesn't include the French Quarter), there are 15 hotels (most of 'em 3 stars) currently offering rates of $120 or below during the third week of July.

        About half of those have rates below $100. July isn't the high season in NOLA.

        by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 02:46:12 PM PDT

        •  sorry forgot the link

          NOLA Hotel rates July 15-20 2008

          by commonscribe on Sun Nov 25, 2007 at 07:52:50 PM PDT

    •