Our soldiers will be tortured because of Bush

Thanks to the Bush Administration's insistence on the American right to torture "terrorists," our President has essentially guaranteed that our own soldiers will be tortured in captivity:.

From TPM:

Rep. Artur Davis (D-AL) asked during today's hearing whether even the impression that the U.S. tortures makes it more likely that an adversary in a future conflict -- he used the Iranians as an example -- would torture captured U.S. or allied troops.

Former Navy instructor Malcolm Nance said he considered it a "guarantee" that other nations now have "a legal standard to subject American soldiers to enhanced interrogations." U.S. Air Force Reserve Colonel Steve Kleinman said he "agree[s] entirely."

This is what is known as a "tipping point."  Also, "treason."  

If you are angry that the President of the United States has guaranteed that US troops in captivity will be tortured, please call your Senators and Reps today.  

Capitol switchboard toll-free numbers:
1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437

Be sure to ask them if they are still "undecided" about Mukasey's nomination, as well.

•  I am disgusted

  I was aware of this danger before the testimony today, but seeing the "guarantee" so explicitly stated has really shaken me up.

  Our military deserves better than this.  Bush and Cheney should be impeached.

  by mffarrow on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 10:19:03 AM PDT

•  i copied a few comments together

  that seems appropriate (sorry - didn't copy the names of those who commented)

  Nance:  Abu Graib, Torture, Gitmo, then Iraq....That's what ordinary people in the streets bring up when discussing US. They think we're acting out of pure malace.
  They see the leaders of the United States as using torture not really to find out information, but rather out of a punative and sadistic motive.

  The absence of the Republicans at this hearing except for Rep Franks says two things:
  A) they are consummate cowards; and
  B) they couldn't give two shits about torture.  These witnesses should be called before the Senate.

  What was accomplished by this hearing?
  What was accomplished was public discussion that shown some light on the degree to which torture has become the sandard operating procedure of the United States.  And that it isn't a goddmmed secret to anyone else but Americans and Congress.   This is a set up for a Senate hearing.  The testimony was so explosive, that there has to be a follow up.  Without explicity stating it, this panel basically said that the Administration has committed multiple war crimes.

  by sc kitty on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 10:25:34 AM PDT

•  I think

  we should be concerned by the US use of torture not by the probability of US soldiers being tortured as some kind of reprisal.
  The possibility of of torture was and will always be there, but the fact that it's part of Official US policy is fucking disgusting.

  by langerdang on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 10:43:39 AM PDT

•  And one of the saddest things is that ...

  ... if/when it happens, we will no longer have the moral authority to effectively get the court of world opinion on our side. Instead, a lot of nations will simply tell us that what what we have sown, so shall we reap.

  As one of Olbermann's guests said the other night, the only people who want to be able to torture their enemies are "the stupid, the lazy, and the pseudo-tough." Sounds like a perfect description of Bush/Cheney to me. Christ on a minibike, even Hagel and McCain know this is a loser. What is wrong with us as a nation to allow this sort of thing?

  I am at work now, but will e-mail my Congress critters about this (again) as soon as I get a chance.

  by philimus on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 10:49:41 AM PDT

  •  I don't agree

    The US did not torture the Nazis or Imperial Japanese War Criminals at the end of the War despite the barbarity of their crimes. The US refused to sink to their "standards". What makes you think that other countries are unable to uphold the this standard, the one that the Bush Regime buried !

    by langerdang on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 11:44:51 AM PDT

    •  I think you misunderstood me or I failed ...

      ... to express myself well. I don't believe that other nation-states are or will be unable to uphold the standards of the Geneva Conventions. However, groups of insurgents in Iraq, and the remaining members of the Taliban in Afghanistan for that matter, may now feel even more free to inflict whatever manner of torture they wish on our soldiers because we have already done the same to their people.

      The only point I was trying to make is that we may find it a lot more difficult to secure the cooperation of (or sympathy from) other countries in responding to such war crimes, if our servicemen and women are tortured, because of the fact that we have resorted to such brutal tactics ourselves.

      And I agree with your comment upthread that our position on this should be based on principle, not self-interest. In other words, regardless of what our enemies do to us, we should not torture simply because it is barbaric and wrong. Period.

      I hope I have put it more clearly this time. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify my thoughts.

      "Well, you know you're the same old hangman
      who rationalizes hope,
      whose left hand pats my children,
      and whose right hand holds a case full of rope." - Roy Haprer, "Goodbye," from "Flat Baroque & Berserk," 1970

      by philimus on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 12:18:55 PM PDT

      •  I agree with you 100%

        my post was deliberately provocative to clarify the situation. I know that the Torture issue is not one of self interest for Americans and thank you for understanding my message.

        by langerdang on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 12:33:30 PM PDT

•  Somehow

  I think anyone who would torture our soldiers would have done so anyway.

  Not excusing our own torture, but think about it realistically, Iran, North Korea, ETC. were not going to wait until we tortured to get the 'okay'.

  by redcardphreek on Thu Nov 08, 2007 at 10:49:54 AM PDT