Daily Kos

Pelosi Rebuts CIA Smear

Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 07:58:28 AM PDT

Everyone's heard about the Porter Goss Smear special designed to make Nancy Pelosi back off on investigating the CIA's destroying the torture tapes by implying that she OKed waterboarding back in 2002.

Well, Pelosi came out to rebut it yesterday -- but it hasn't exactly been headlined.

Buried waaaaaay dowwwwn in this NYT article is something that should have been put right at the top, and the rest of the article (which consists of Silvestre Reyes' fan-boy worship of Porter Goss protégé -- and chief figure in the torture tapes' destruction -- José Rodriguez) junked:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, among the lawmakers who attended the briefing, issued a statement on Sunday saying that she eventually did protest the techniques and that she concurred with objections raised by a Democratic colleague in a letter to the C.I.A. in early 2003.

Funny how Porter Goss' stenographers left that out of the press packs he handed out to them 'on background'.

UPDATE:  Pelosi's actual statement is after the jump.

Here's Pelosi's statement, courtesy of TPM (h/t madmsf):

"On one occasion, in the fall of 2002, I was briefed on interrogation techniques the Administration was considering using in the future. The Administration advised that legal counsel for the both the CIA and the Department of Justice had concluded that the techniques were legal.

"I had no further briefings on the techniques. Several months later, my successor as Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jane Harman, was briefed more extensively and advised the techniques had in fact been employed. It was my understanding at that time that Congresswoman Harman filed a letter in early 2003 to the CIA to protest the use of such techniques, a protest with which I concurred."

TPM's Spencer Ackerman's trying to say that this somehow throws Harman under the bus, but a number of TPM commenters (UPDATE:  And now Emptywheel) have called him out on this (emphases mine):

RandyR  wrote on December 10, 2007 10:42 AM:

This explanation seems reasonable to me. Members of the Intel Committee can speak to very few people about briefings. In Pelosi's case Harman is a natural confidant, no matter animosity on other issues, as I suspect Pelosi's briefing was pretty cryptic and Harman's graphic. A discussion would be reasonable and legal. A letter about the interrogation would seem in order.

---

Lisa  wrote on December 10, 2007 10:59 AM:

How has she thrown Harman under the bus if Harman received the further breifings (and Pelosi didn't) and Pelosi supports Harman's letter to the CIA? You're making no sense. Pelosi's blog has Harman's letter to the CIA asking to declassify her letter. Can't imaginge Pelosi would want that on her website if she were throwing Harman to the wolves. Stop reading more into this than is there. And even more importantly, stop believing the CIA.

---

visitor  wrote on December 10, 2007 11:25 AM:

It seems to me that Pelosi was involved in a briefing she says of what techniques were being considered for use and that had been deemed legal(???) by the DOJ or WH. How can you really object to something at that point in time so close to 9/11 and the terror climate of the time that supposedly they were going to use? Then later Harmon gets a briefing of techniques that they had now been using and objections arise.... I don't see a big todo here because you know as well as anyone else that what the admin says it is going to do rarely turns out to be what it does do. And I have no problems with any of these explanations. The big problem I have is who okayed the leak to the Washington Post to implicate and switch the attention to Pelosi and the Democrats rather than the fact of destroying the tapes themselves. Who is feeling the heat to allow this classified info out about the meeting itself and what went on at it? More importantly why are we all believing this leak as if it is the gospel truth anyway? They could be lieing just as easily as telling the truth yet everyone now rushes to blame Pelosi and the ruse has worked just as it was supposed to do - deflect to another messenger and forget the message

---

CalD  wrote on December 10, 2007 11:40 AM:

"Two: Never mind the brief mention of Jane Harman's protest. Pelosi just threw Harman under the bus. It's no secret that the two Californians don't get along. But she didn't need to put the blame on her committee successor in her statement on this controversy."

Oh, bullshit. That's not a fair characterization of what she said at all. Who controlled the congress in 2003 and how did they run things? What else was Harman supposed to do besides file a protest? This was, no doubt, classified material we're talking about. It's not like she could have gone public with it.

And it's also not like Democrats have been sitting on their thumbs about this issue since they took over the House. To the contrary, they've been coming at it from every angle they can think of, given that they currently still don't have the muscle to shove any new law down Republicans' throats. Do you believe you'd be hearing as much about this issue as we are right now if Republicans still controlled the congress?

I didn't think so.

Tags: Nancy Pelosi, Porter Goss, CIA, torture, waterboarding, smears (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 121 comments

  •  Nice diary,,,, (5+ / 0-)

    but it's so much more fun for the users of this site to bash Nancy, I'm not sure it will do much good.

    "But your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore"--Prine 4100+ dead Americans. Bring them home.

    by Miss Blue on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 07:59:36 AM PDT

  •  Glad to hear that she (13+ / 0-)

    eventually agreed with that letter.

    And god knows how effective those letters are . . .

  •  And she did what? (17+ / 0-)

    Did she try to stop it?Leak the information (she must have several ways to do this) in order to stop the damn thing? No, no and no..let's write a letter.

    She didn't protest hard enough.

    •  Again, this was 2003. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      linnen, Luetta

      There wasn't much else she could do, especially under the House rules that were in effect then, which essentially stripped the minority party of any power.  (The Democrats, either generously or foolishly, undid those rules when they took over this January, which is one reason why the Republicans currently have such blocking power even in the minority.)

      John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

      by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:12:33 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Didn't Pelosi head the Intelligence Committee . . (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        revbludge

        once? .. or was she just ranking member? .. and she could have done something .. if you have read Ezra Klein this morning

        John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

        by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:15:50 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  She was only ranking member (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kpardue, linnen, Luetta

          The Republicans ran the House like a plantation.

          Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

          by bumblebums on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:21:36 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  But what about ... (0+ / 0-)

            Article 1 .. Section 6 of the Constitution?

            John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

            by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:49:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  What about it? (0+ / 0-)

              The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.

              No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States, which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been encreased during such time; and no Person holding any Office under the United States, shall be a Member of either House during his Continuance in Office.

              Let the great world spin for ever down the ringing grooves of change. - Tennyson

              by bumblebums on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:00:56 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  Boo hoo (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        darrelplant

        Nothing she could do. I feel very sorry for Nancy Pelosi. Let's see. She could have stood up on the floor of the House, protected from any prosecution by Constitutional protections of such speech, and said, "I have heard of barbarities being planned by our government. I must speak out or people will be tortured."

        But no, she must have thought. I'm bound by my oath of secrecy. This oath is greater than my constitutional oath. It is greater than my oath to serve my constituents. It is greater than truth or the broken bodies and minds of any innocent people. I will keep silence and wait silently for the day. It is not my fault if something bad happens.

        (And this piece of snark is giving her even the benefit of the doubt!)

        Nancy Pelosi: Profiles in Courage!

        This is your leader. Peh. You can have her, and all her alibis. Her statement is bloodless. It is legalistic, meant to cover her ass. Just as she did in this interview over at Fox the other day.

        I don't have to do anything to undermine the Democratic Party now (as some of you will suspect I wish to do). Your own leadership and its apologists will do just nicely, thank you.

        War is the statesman's game, the priest's delight, The lawyer's jest, the hired assassin's trade Invictus

        by Valtin on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 12:20:33 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Is there more to this story???? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      o the umanity

      Seriously: Nancy Pelosi is us but in Congress. We may not like how she's implementing what she's doing, but she's a nice person who would not consciously be approving waterboarding if she really understood what she were doing and she really were acting of her own free will.

      What manipulation of the information provided to Pelosi or of her actions was done to get her to shut up about waterboarding even temporarily?

  •  Just talked to her (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    martianchronic, Tanya, Terra Mystica

    office and they know NOTHING about any statements on the subject by her.  They advised me that it would appear on her website if and when she does choose to make a statement.

    Any man's death diminishes me because I am involved in mankind. Therefore, send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee. John Donne

    by scurrvydog on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:09:08 AM PDT

  •  Silence is Complicity (9+ / 0-)

    "I was secretly complicit but later I secretly objected," amounts to a confession.

  •  Well, that's something. (3+ / 0-)

    But not much.

    Recced to add to the discussion.

  •  Support Cindy Sheehan for Congress! (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    bugscuffle

    Not "The Constitution is off the table" Pelosi

    http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/...

  •  Another sternly worded letter, this time by.... (3+ / 0-)

    a Colleague. Is that the type of response to an illegal action that threatens our entire reputation (already soiled) around the world? Pathetic....we need to investigate this, punish the wrongdoing, jail the wrongdoers and cleanse ourselves. Anything less is insufficient.

    •  So you want her to call off the current probe? (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      linnen, Nellcote

      The whole reason this was leaked by Goss and Company is to make her call off the very probe she didn't have the power to start in 2002 or 2003.

      Remember, the original CIA dog-and-pony show occurred when the Democrats were not only in the minority, but were working under the special rules that the GOP set up when they took both Houses in 1995.  The Democrats undid the rules when they took over in 2007, out of a spirit of fairness -- or suckerdom, whichever you prefer.

      John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

      by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:16:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I love you PW, but you're wrong (7+ / 0-)

    POW, i love your posts, but on this you (and scarecrow) are just wrong.

    it is not a smear. It is an uncomfortable truth.
    "More and better democrats" is the rallying cry here at DailyKos.  I submit that we need better democrats than harman, pelosi, rockefeller, and the rest who let this go on since 2002.

    Pretending this is blackmail or a smear is silly and counterproductive.  By giving the leadership a pass on this (the kind of pass that we don't extend to enablers like Feinstein), you allow them to get away with their crimes and do it again.

    How nice that pelosi "eventually protested" the torture.  But she didn't do anything substantive. Digby has MUCH MORE:

    You simply cannot persuade me that there was no way that people in their positions couldn't have buttonholed enough members of their party in congress to say, "trust me on this. These people have done some things which I can't tell you in detail, but which you need to understand are unAmerican. We must take a stand." Harman and Rockefeller would have been listened to. So would Pelosi and Graham (who says he doesn't remember the briefing and has spoken out vociferously about torture since then.)

    There are many examples over these last few years of people who did the right thing at great risk to themselves. Think of Joseph Darby at Abu Ghraib, or Lt. Commander Charles Swift who defended Salim Ahmed Hamdan and lost his military career over it. Longtime government servants like John Brady Kiesling resigned in protest at the outset of the Iraq war and many others have come forward since to reveal what they knew. Richard Clark famously testified before congress. Even the arch conservatives in the Justice Department threatened to resign over the excesses of the Bush administration's terrorism policies.

    But these powerful congressional overseers knew and did nothing.

    Don't protect criminals.

    •  If she stops the probe, that's protecting Goss... (0+ / 0-)

      ...and Rodriguez, and a whole bunch of other people who are truly guilty.

      That's what Porter Goss wants.  Do you want to give that to him?

      John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

      by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:18:37 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  No... (5+ / 0-)

        I want Pelosi to do her fucking job.  First and always.  What is that job?  To protect and defend the Constitution.  That is what she took an oath to do.  If she can't do it, she needs to step aside and let someone else do it.  Be it now, or 4 years ago.

        When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

        by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:28:04 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  no, I don't (4+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        darrelplant, KenBee, maxalb, Terra Mystica

        BUT, I do not have one single iota of faith that there will be any investigation.
        I mean hello, Rockefeller, who's just as complicit, wants to lead the whitewash investigation.

        Greenwald:

        They can always count on two of their best enabling friends in Congress. First, here's Jay Rockefeller, rejecting Biden's call for an independent criminal investigation:

           "I don't think there's a need for a special counsel, and I don't think there's a need for a special commission," Rockefeller said. "It is the job of the intelligence committees to do that."
        [snip]
        It is a complete travesty for the senior Democrats on those Committees (and their apologists) to claim that they are powerless to act when learning of lawbreaking. Anyone who thinks that way should not be on the Committee. The idea that they can't do anything once learning of lawbreaking is the very opposite of the Committee's core purpose. But, of course, they were not and are not powerless to act. They simply chose not to act.

        Sorry Phoenix Woman, but as I said at Scarecrow's post at FDL (as brendancalling, by the way, Frenchy Lamour is my old dkos moniker and I'm too lazy to change it) I can no longer run interference for these criminals. not after the blank checks, the moveon vote, the pete stark apology, the MCA of 2006, the refusal to make the GOP filibuster, the looming amnesty for telecom spying.  

        As i also asked at FDL, how come when the CIA exposes GOP criminals it's called "pushback" but when the democrats get exposed it's called "extortion" and "blackmail"?

    •  Frenchy... (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      cookiesandmilk, maxalb

      I wish I could give this 1000 recommends.

      When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

      by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:30:43 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Sternly worded letters (4+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RichM, TracieLynn, DarkestHour, maxalb

    really haven't achieved many results.

    True, they were in the minority then, but they aren't now. They barely struggle these days as bush runs roughshod all over them.

    It's hard for me to find sympathy for Pelosi and others.

    She was briefed that we were TORTURING people, and now she's trying to say she tried to stop it by agreeing with a freakin' letter?

    No dice, Pelosi. You failed.

    I stand by my original analogy between the Joker and bin Laden and the Riddler and Hussein. -- Greasy Grant

    by TheBlaz on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:15:19 AM PDT

    •  That's why there's a House probe going on NOW (0+ / 0-)

      The whole reason this smear was issued by Goss and the Bushies was to kill the investigation into the CIA's destroying the torture tapes.  Period.

      If the GOP really thought that Pelosi was going to play nice with them, Goss would never have leaked this.

      John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

      by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:20:49 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You mean the probe (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        maxalb, Terra Mystica

        that's trying to be killed by Rockefeller and Feinstein?

        That probe?

        I wish I could have more faith in the Democrats, but time and time again they prove me wrong and show me that they do not deserve that faith.

        I stand by my original analogy between the Joker and bin Laden and the Riddler and Hussein. -- Greasy Grant

        by TheBlaz on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:49:58 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  Weak Tea... (5+ / 0-)

      I'm really tired of people defending really crappy behavior because they happen to have a (D) next to their name.  Pelosi acted way short of heroic.  Now she is going to cave to Bush again.  

      When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

      by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:22:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  So she should stop the tape probe? (0+ / 0-)

        That's what this weekend leak by Porter Goss and Jose Rodriguez was designed to do, you know.

        This wouldn't have come out if the GOP and Goss thought that she was as harmless to them as you say she is.  They obviously want her stopped.

        John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

        by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:26:08 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  First of all.. (4+ / 0-)

          You have no proof of that.  Secondly, it only works if Pelosi actually stops the probe because she is guilty of knowing in advance that there was torture.  You can't have it both ways.

          When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

          by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:29:54 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  I see where some confusion may be coming from... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          maxalb

          The 'cave' I am talking about is not a call to stop the probe.  The 'cave' to which I am speaking is giving Dubya more money for his war without any strings attached.  Nice leadership there...

          When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

          by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:10:07 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

  •  TPM Muckraker has a post about this. (7+ / 0-)

    They have her statement here:

    "On one occasion, in the fall of 2002, I was briefed on interrogation techniques the Administration was considering using in the future. The Administration advised that legal counsel for the both the CIA and the Department of Justice had concluded that the techniques were legal.

    "I had no further briefings on the techniques. Several months later, my successor as Ranking Member of the House Intelligence Committee, Jane Harman, was briefed more extensively and advised the techniques had in fact been employed. It was my understanding at that time that Congresswoman Harman filed a letter in early 2003 to the CIA to protest the use of such techniques, a protest with which I concurred."

    Pelosi statement at TPM Muckraker

    They have a much more extensive post about the story as well with info about other lawmakers' involvement and their briefings:

    More info at TPM Muckraker

    •  It wasn't me! It was Jane! (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      maxalb

      And she did her job by writing a sternly worded letter!!!  God, I'm really beginning to despise these people.

      When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

      by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:24:32 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Nice twisting of Pelosi's words (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Nellcote

        She simply said that Harman, on seeing on a more involved briefing, objected and that she trusted Harman's judgement enough to concur.

        Which considering this was in early 2003, is about all they could do.

        John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

        by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:33:44 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What I'm seeing... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          cookiesandmilk, maxalb

          Is a complete and total lack of responsibility.  

          When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

          by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:36:09 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  So she should stop the CIA tape probe? (0+ / 0-)

            I thought that having this probe was rather responsible of her.  Of course, that's also why Goss and the GOP leaked the first half of this story, to make her back off.

            John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

            by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:41:37 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Again, I ask you... (4+ / 0-)

              Why do you assume that calling out Pelosi on this means that I want the probe to stop or that by doing so, will somehow cause Pelosi to stop it?  And what evidence do you have that this smear came from Goss?

              When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

              by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:43:54 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  The whole point of the smear... (0+ / 0-)

                ...was to make Pelosi call off the probe.

                Her critics here have been saying that she's not doing anything effective against the GOP.  Well, if that was the case WRT the CIA torture tape probe, there'd be no need for this little smear attempt against her, now would it?

                John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

                by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:54:04 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  the only reason I see for this (0+ / 0-)

                  is "pile-on". Just another way to make the Speaker of The House look weak. Period.

                  On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place

                  by o the umanity on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:59:18 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                •  Well... (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  maxalb, Terra Mystica

                  When it comes to politicians, I apply the Chris Rock Theory.  To wit: "You shouldn't get credit for doing your job."  So after the NYT comes out and says that the CIA destroyed tapes showing torture with the flimsiest of excuses - Pelosi finally decides to do something about it - And now we are supposed to be all excited about that?  Again - I don't buy it.

                  When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

                  by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:07:07 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

    •  That last sentence is pretty damn (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      RichM, cookiesandmilk

      weaselly, imho.

      •  It does throw Harmon under the bus (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        RichM, Terra Mystica, bugscuffle

        There have been stories in the past that those two do not get along.  This would seem to be consistent with that.

      •  re (0+ / 0-)

        Ohhhhhhh she "concurred"...... ohhhh........

        Some leadeship there Nancy. Why did you not bring this up on day one of the new congress?

        "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

        by cookiesandmilk on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:37:06 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  What, you mean her concurring w/Harman... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Nellcote

          ...that waterboarding is wrong?

          That's the whole reason for her calling for an investigation into the CIA's destroying the torture tapes.

          But I know, some people have such a hate-on for her that she could personally knee George Bush in the groin on national TV and they'd still attack her because she didn't hit him hard enough.

          John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

          by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:40:06 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  re (4+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            RichM, darrelplant, maxalb, Terra Mystica

            No I mean she did next to nothing.

            I can't stand her leadership for 10090909 reasons, this being another one.

            She could have brought up investigations on day one if she knew about this.

            But instead here we are.

            "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

            by cookiesandmilk on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:41:52 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Bingo! (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              maxalb, Terra Mystica

              Am I happy she is finally looking into this after the NY fricken' Times had to publish the story about the tapes being destroyed by the CIA despite explicit instructions from Congress, the Justice Department and the WH telling them not too?  You bet!  But that doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically assign the roll of 'good guy' to Pelosi unconditionally just because of it.  If she covered up the existence of these techniques for 4 and a half fricken' years, she is culpable.  Period.

              When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

              by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:48:20 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

      •  How so? (0+ / 0-)

        She's simply saying that Harman saw a subsequent demo that was more detailed than the one she saw (oh, the CIA did a dishonest presentation to Congress! Shocking!), and decided on seeing that subsequent presentation to oppose those techiques, and Pelosi concurred.

        Remember, this little Goss smear broke on a weekend. Congresssional offices were closed.   Pelosi was in the midst of welcoming her new grandchild into the world when she got sandbagged by this. I'm not surprised that she sounds somewhat caught on the hop here.

        John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

        by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:37:31 AM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  Where is your evidence... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          cookiesandmilk

          That this came from Goss?

          When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

          by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:42:05 AM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  re (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            RichM

            It's a witchunt!!

            Nancy is the perfect and can has cheezeburgers.

            "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

            by cookiesandmilk on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:43:29 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  Well, her website shows her grandchild... (0+ / 0-)

            ...Number seven, by the way.

            That's a bit of a distraction right there.

            And the calendar says that Saturday and Sunday are "the weekend".  If you've ever tried calling Congressional offices during "the weekend", you will not get a human being, but a recorded message.

            The fact that at least one of Pelosi's own staff members didn't know about yesterday's rebuttal points to how everyone was caught on the hop by this.

            John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

            by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:46:18 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  re (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              RichM

              Or to put on a tin foil hat for a second, it also shows she responds to "smears" about as effectively as she runs congress.

              "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

              by cookiesandmilk on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:48:02 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Heh! (0+ / 0-)

                Let's see how well you do in her job.  I sure wouldn't want it, because I'd be in jail for having physically assaulted somebody by now.

                John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

                by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:52:10 AM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  re (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  RichM, maxalb

                  Let's see how well you do in her job.

                  Please. ELECT ME.

                  I would do a 1000 times fuck-all better job at it then she does.

                  That's for fucking sure.

                  Take that to the bank and elect me in '08.

                  "Steve Holt is now iSteve Holt 3G." - Steve Holt

                  by cookiesandmilk on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:53:46 AM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

                  •  If you have some fear of being arrested... (5+ / 0-)

                    Or of not playing nice, you have absolutely no business being Speaker of the House for the United States Congress.  Period.  And no, I'm not talking about being reckless or resorting to fisticuffs.  I am talking about doing your damn job - which is to uphold the Constitution first and foremost.

                    When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

                    by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:56:53 AM PDT

                    [ Parent ]

            •  Whaaaa??? (0+ / 0-)

              I'm sorry Phoenix Women.  I have a lot of respect for  you.  Maybe I'm stupid.  But I still don't see how you get 'Peter Goss is responsible for the smear and the reason is because he wants to get Pelosi to stop the probe' outta what you just wrote.

              When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

              by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:52:53 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Cui bono? (0+ / 0-)

            Jose Rodriguez, the chief player in the CIA torture tapes scandal, is Goss' right-hand man.  The torture techniques were used during Goss' watch.  They both want attention deflected from them and anywhere else they can put it.

            John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

            by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:50:55 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  OK.. (3+ / 0-)

              I understand you are trying to connect dots - fine.  But you are using a theory, which is only based upon speculation and relationships to try to get the rest of us to shut up about Pelosi.  It is specious at best and completely risible at worst.

              When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

              by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:54:59 AM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  Goss was Pelosi's GOP counterpart in '02 (0+ / 0-)

                He was the ranking Republican on the House Intel Committee.  He would have been at the 2002 CIA meeting mentioned.

                When he was tapped by Bush to head the CIA in 2004, he took his protege Rodriguez with him.

                John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

                by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 12:29:44 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

    •  the other important (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      kimoconnor

      quote

      Individual lawmakers' recollections of the early briefings varied dramatically, but officials present during the meetings described the reaction as mostly quiet acquiescence, if not outright support.

      who are these "officials" and how do we know what they say is true?

      ..."For beauty," I replied. "And I for truth,-the two are one; We brethren are"... E. Dickinson

      by peagreen on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:42:39 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  I'll be continuing to happily bash Nancy... (5+ / 0-)

    ...from time to time as long as she continues to shit on the Constitution.

  •  is there any actual... (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RichM, Terra Mystica

    evidence that she concurred with Harmon's protest? I know she didn't DO anything, but is there anything beyond a claim 4 years later that can be offered to show that was her position then?

    that'd be nice

    Even a blind nut find a squirrel sometimes

    by buzzsaw on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:31:12 AM PDT

  •  I read the link and don't see what Goss has to do (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RichM, james risser

    with this.  He's not in charge now.  Perhaps I'm dense, but I don't know why it keeps coming up in comments.

    •  It's a nice conspiracy theory... (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      cookiesandmilk, maxalb, Terra Mystica

      Which:

      1. Is not backed-up by any evidence.
      1. Does in no way excuses Pelosi's lack of responsibility.
      1. Doesn't mean anything if Pelosi continues the investigation.

      When Bush visits Europe, they burn American flags and spit insults for America. When Obama visits Europe, they wave American flags and sing America's praises.

      by RichM on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:38:15 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  he was the only (0+ / 0-)

      named  source in the article the rest of it is "official sources"-no names! Porter Goss has some credibilty issues.

      ..."For beauty," I replied. "And I for truth,-the two are one; We brethren are"... E. Dickinson

      by peagreen on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:28:06 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  You see Nancy...when you dont speak up... (3+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    RichM, TracieLynn, maxalb

    others speak up for you.

    It's nice to know Pelosi is good for something even if it's just to be the target of a Republican smear campaign... I mean how else would we know she is a Democrat if we didnt have the Repugs to tell us.

    •  There's the probe of the CIA's destroying stuff. (0+ / 0-)

      She's involved in that probe.

      Which is, of course, why she's being smeared:  The Republicans, most especially Goss, Rodriguez and Bush, want that stopped, and they're hoping that distracting from the roles of Goss, Rodriguez and Bush in both the crime and the coverup will do the trick.  

      To judge from the Pavlov's-dog reaction of the knee-jerk Pelosi haters, they were right:  Nobody here's talking about the destruction of the tapes; instead they're talking about how eeeevil Pelosi is.  Score one for Rodriguez, Goss and BushCo.

      I fully expect to see some hookers from the Tenderloin brought out to say that they were her paid girlfriends before this is all over.  And that will cause a non-trivial number of gay or lesbian Pelosi haters to suddenly go straight in protest.

      John McCain will end Roe v. Wade if he's president.

      by Phoenix Woman on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 12:17:26 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Im not ignorant to the distraction (0+ / 0-)

        and Pavlovian responses are the result of conditioning...that would be Nancy's conditioning of us. You see the "knee jerk" haters got used to her capitualtion and stunning failure to lead and actually expect it now. It's hardly a reaction, it's a state of mind.

        We are well aware of the crimes and coverups of the Goss, Rodriguez and especially Bush. The problem is we are more aware and more ditressed by Pelosi's failure to bring them to justice.

        You lash out in the last paragraph but I suspect your frustration is actually with Pelosi and this comment merely the Pavlovian reaction of a woman who is rightfully sickened by the first woman Speaker of the House to be anything but just the first woman Speaker.

  •  Is it a smear? (3+ / 0-)

    Or is he reminding her of her own complicity- giving her a little nudge that she "better not" go there. "Eventually"? Well, where did she stand before "eventually"? Even if we take 2003 "off the table", let's look at 2006. Would anyone actually be surprised if she went along with torture, too?

    Time and time again, people wonder what it is that's being "held over the heads" of Democrats to make them go along. Hello?
    While I don't necessarily think that's an acceptable excuse (being blackmailed) for the things they're letting pass (or even worse, supporting with their votes), I have to concede to this meme in this case.
    In other words, the Democrats would be "just as guilty" as the Republicans.
    However that may have come about (I said MAY), wouldn't that indicate a weakness of character that should be unacceptable to us?
    And, if this IS the case, it would be better to come clean and take the hit and then at least have a prayer of putting America back on track. It will come out eventually anyway and has the potential to be devastating when it does.

    Nancy Pelosi should have been disqualified from becoming Speaker the SECOND she took impeachment off the table. It wasn't her right to do so.
    IMO, she (along with Steny Hoyer and Rahm Emmanuel, just to name a few) isn't fit to be a Congressperson, let alone their leader.

    Maybe I just expect too much from the people running our country.

    "Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight." Albert Schweitzer

    by bitchinabluestreak on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 08:58:50 AM PDT

  •  i don't believe a word... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    maxalb

    ...that comes from her pie-hole.  sorry.  but, she hasn't earned any benefit of the doubt...

    •  Nobody can earn anything (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Quicklund, james risser

      if or when their power has been stripped.

      The minute Nancy Pelosi "Took Impeachment Off The Table", the very first question we should have been asking is "What or Who Gave Her That Right?"

      Impeachment is in the Constitution, and that is the Remedy that we have, to deal with the criminal behavior we see in our government right now. What right does anyone have to remove that from the table?

      If Pelosi alone believes she does, then she's the loon here, and should be held accountable. But if someone or something else is stopping her, she needs to 'fess up now and let the shit fly where it will. It's going to, anyway.

      On second thought , let's not go to Camelot. 'Tis a silly place

      by o the umanity on Mon Dec 10, 2007 at 09:10:00 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Hidden Agendas (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    peagreen

    Until we know with more particularity what that briefing in Fall 2002 entailed, I'm not ready to condemn Pelosi's reaction to it.  I also am hesitant to condemn her actions with regard to that meeting given the environment at that time and given the secrecy restrictions that she operated under and that she continues to operate under.  

    I find it curious that during the same week that Cheney attacked Pelosi in a disgustingly sexist manner this story comes out about her early knowledge of interrogation techniques and apparent acquiescense.  It may be that these attacks are just tactics to divert attention from the NIE and the destruction of torture tapes evidence.  Or is it an attempt to fracture even further a fractured Democratic Party?  Or is it perhaps an attempt to make people wary of putting more women in power?  Is Nancy Pelosi a stand-in for Hillary? Or perhaps all of the above?

    Nancy Pelosi got the speakership because she is an effective politician in a diverse political party.  That doesn't mean that she necessarily is