They don't get it: waterboarding is REAL drowning, not fake

Many in the press still are still providing the Bush Administration cover on waterboarding by saying it only "simulates" drowning. This probably reduces the seriousness of what we are doing to these guys in our own citizens' eyes (surely no one else's) - and let's Bush seem like a compassionate torturer.

Here are the latest 3 examples of the soft bigotry of low expectations that I've seen in waterboard-gate reporting:

• Ed Henry: "A former CIA officer revealing the agency did use water boarding, which simulates drowning..."
• Tweety: "The idea is to make the person think they are drowning....They believe they're drowning. (laughter)"
• NY Times: "waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning used to extract information from a prisoner"

But is waterboarding fake drowning? Of course not.  

And anyone who's seen the tape of Kaj Larsen at Current TV knows it's real. It may be controlled drowning. Our government paid torturers may be experts at its implementation. But you get too much water in your lungs, it stays, you die.

Completely.

Right there on CNN Malcolm Nance explained it to Wolf:

And this is this is one of the things that needed to be cleared up. It is not a simulation of drowning. It's a process where your throat, your sino-nasal passages, your esophagus, your trachea is overflowed with water and it starts to enter your lungs, and, of course, you go through the actual drowning process.

•  Au Contraire!

  I think some would have us believe that waterboarding is not unlike the torturer, one hand on hip, the other whipping a hankie out of his vest pocket, dipping it in a demitasse of water, then flicking it out onto someone’s face.

  by dov12348 on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:26:39 AM PDT

  •  Hey, who knows?

    Maybe this would hurt.  There was a scene in The Naked Gun where two guys were wrestling, blowing hot air from hair dryers on each other and screaming.

    by dov12348 on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:31:28 AM PDT

•  Kit Bond sez

  waterboarding is like doing a nice backstroke.

  by bumblebums on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:28:08 AM PDT

  •  Why don't they subject themselves to it?

    That's what I would ask these morons.  

    Why doesn't Russert, for example, hire a couple of burly masked men and then spring them on his Republican guests who say waterboarding is like 'swimming the backstroke.'  The masked men could subject them to waterboarding and Russert could query them about it as they struggle to breath.

    I think teevee ratings would be high.  Such a 'gotcha' interview would be more popular than Colbert's White House Correspondence Dinner speech.

    by YoyogiBear on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:36:10 AM PDT

  •  I saw him say that last night.

    What a complete, utter, cynical, bastard!

    by hestal on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:26:43 AM PDT

•  "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques"

  This phrase is classic Orwellian misdirection. Too many reporters and pundits use this benign sounding wording.

  Torture is torture, no other description is necessary.

  One wonders if reporters and journalists get orders from their editors not to use the word "torture" or if they do it voluntarily because they are so clued into the game of hiding the truth.

  by frandor55 on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:30:59 AM PDT

  •  How can anyone in their right mind think that...

    waterboarding is NOT torture.

    If you aren't sure, let me demonstrate on you, and then I'll ask you again if you feel tortured.

    by Jimdotz on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:35:22 AM PDT

•  Is this the same GOP who...

  criticized Bill Clinton for redefining the term 'sexual relations' to get out of a perjury rap?  At least then nobody suffered any physical agony and our global reputation wasn't shattered.

  by Greasy Grant on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:33:15 AM PDT

•  Some say it isn't that serious because we do it

  to our own people during training.  But that's not an apt comparison.  To be real, the technique has to be administered by someone who doesn't really care if you live or die.

  by C Barr on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:33:34 AM PDT

  •  Exactly...and has COMPLETE control over you n/t

    by IndySteve on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:14:43 AM PDT

•  L Johnson

  Yesterday Larry Johnson posted an article about the tapes and showed a picture from the Korean war where the subject was laying on the ground with a burlap bag over his face and a soldier pouring water from a canteen. A canteen full of water spilling onto the face is not going to do any damage, but I doubt this was the technique that was used against the Arab prisoners, it was more like what the author of this post said. The cia guy said the suspect started talking after about 35 seconds. Yeah, that was how long they took to fill his lungs with water. But, could he still talk? And are these people still living?

  by Ryland Chapel on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 07:50:38 AM PDT

  •  Well, accidents do happen...

    and if someone suffered a heart attack? Well, he was a bad guy.
    Torture in all its forms is illegal and unjustified. All those stupid "Terrorist Alerts" that are no longer being used since Bush stole his second "mandate" are evidence that torture didn't work. There were no further plans. There is not Nukular Bomb in a briefcase somewhere. Al Qaeda is a "seat of the pants" organization that gets an idea and then sees if they can make it work somehow....not a government with the "best minds" working on it.

    by Temmoku on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:07:39 AM PDT

    •  Al Qaeda has succeeded...

      in using fear to cause us to do all that we've done. Ruined our reputation around the world, attacked a country and elevated Iran to the dominant power in the region, killed millions and thousands of our own, suspension of civil liberties.

      Hell, they did it all WITHOUT an attack on the homeland. Mission accomplished.

      by IndySteve on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:13:56 AM PDT

  •  I am not an expert in waterboarding and I hope

    never to be, but when I watch the "simulations" on tv I notice that the torturer will jiggle the cloth that covers the victim's nose and mouth, as he pours small amounts of water on it.  I can only presume that this jiggling is to allow air to escape from the victim's passages thereby permitting the water to flow more easily into the victim's lungs.  If I am right then it means that the modern application of this "technique" is very effective and terrifying!!

    by hestal on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:30:57 AM PDT

•  Just like tasering simulates....

  electric shock! No, it actually shocks you and hurts like hell, causing all muscles to contract. It's just not high enough amperage to kill you.

  I wonder if there are any deaths resulting from taking waterboarding too far. Common sense would dictate that there are -- somewhere. But would we ever hear about them?

  by IndySteve on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:10:56 AM PDT

•  Worst than drowning & what else?

  Some people seem to understand what this process is at least enough to speak about it; however, one thing that seems missing in this discussion is that in drowning death comes relatively quickly.

  In waterboarding, death might occur but it is must be agonizing to go through an "extended" drowning sensation.

  Second part of this comment is that everyone is focusing in on "waterboarding" there have been description of other types of torture which are not receiving any discussion.

  One mentioned in an article yesterday was mutilation of a prisoner's genitalia.

  If this were the topic, rather than waterboarding, I am sure there would never be a need to discuss whether or not this was torture.

  So the evil is hidden in the discussion of what waterboarding is and whether it simulates "swimming" or not.

  by hmbnancy on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:41:46 AM PDT

  •  good point

    you also have to wonder how they know - or if they know - how much water is too much? Are they measuring it with a measuring cup? People always say a baby could drown in one inch of water.....

    by Zappatero on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 09:35:06 AM PDT

•  When you see a graphic

  of the victim upside down, strapped to a board, his head fully immersed in a helmet like bowl full of water, you have a better picture of the event. Sometimes this graphic is used by CBS news, but CNN and NBC always show the wash cloth over the face version.

  See through the propaganda.

  by Virginia Irish on Wed Dec 12, 2007 at 08:56:36 AM PDT