Daily Kos

The GOP's "religious right" dilemma

Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:35:53 PM PDT

Arianna:

With Mike Huckabee's continuing surge, the Republican Party now has an Iowa front-runner whose religious beliefs are virtually identical to those of George Bush. He's anti-choice, born-again, against gay-marriage, and gets political advice directly from God.

So why is the Republican establishment suddenly in a state of near-apoplexy about Mike Huckabee? Shouldn't they be happy? They've been cultivating evangelicals and fundamentalists for 30 years. Now they finally have a candidate who's truly part of the movement. So what's the problem?

Actually, that is the problem. The evangelical crowd was fine when it was just a resource to be cynically exploited every few years in demagogic anti-gay get-out-the-vote campaigns. But now the holy-rolling monster the GOP's Dr. Frankensteins have created has thrown off the shackles, fled the lab, and is currently leading in Iowa. And the party doesn't know what to do.

This has been one of the most bizarre developments of this election cycle. I mean, Peggy Noonan, self-appointed keeper of Reagan's memory, is now lamenting the rise of the Christian Right:

I wonder if our old friend Ronald Reagan could rise in this party, this environment. Not a regular churchgoer, said he experienced God riding his horse at the ranch, divorced, relaxed about the faiths of his friends and aides, or about its absence. He was a believing Christian, but he spent his adulthood in relativist Hollywood, and had a father who belonged to what some saw, and even see, as the Catholic cult. I'm just not sure he'd be pure enough to make it in this party. I'm not sure he'd be considered good enough.

Of course this is all ridiculous. Reagan was a cynical manipulator of the Christian Right and Noonan was right there all along cheering him on:

Reagan had an old-fashioned sense that Americans could do any good thing if God blessed the effort. Removing expansionary communism from the world stage was a right and good thing, and why would God not smile upon it?

Meanwhile, one wingnut blogger after another is proclaiming that they'd rather vote for Hillary or Edwards or Obama than a Huckster nominee. Over at the NY Times, Adam Nagourney (who I like, really) has finally stopped writing his tiresome "Democrats are divided" stories to focus on something more topical -- how Republicans hate their candidates:

But what is worrying Republicans these days is that this tepid rank-and-file reception to the best the party has to offer suggests that the Republican Party is hitting a wall after dominating American politics for most of the last 35 years. Republican voters are reacting to — or rather, not reacting to — a field of presidential candidates who have defined their candidacies with familiar, even musty, Republican promises, slogans and policies.

“Our party generally has grown stale in its message and we’re not as tuned in as we once were,” said Senator Lamar Alexander, a Tennessee Republican who sought his party’s presidential nomination in 1996 and 2000. “We’re repeating words and phrases that were from the 1980s, rather than looking ahead to 2008. We haven’t been as original and fresh in our presentation as we ought to be. We have been applying our old principles to new circumstances. The world is new.”

Richard Lowry, the editor of the conservative magazine National Review, said the field “has been less than the sum of its parts.”

“The debate among these guys has been so unedifying and so backward looking,” he said. “It’s all, ‘who did what wrong seven years ago.’ They are also not talking about the future, which is a sign of a deeper Republican malaise. The Republican Party has run out of intellectual steam and good ideas.”

There's no bigger sign of this lack of intellectual steam and good ideas than the almost exclusive reliance on fear-mongering to try and scare up votes, whether it's terrorism, Iran, scary brown people, San Francisco, or gays. And in that intellectual void, the party's religious base -- long used, abused, and taken for granted -- have sensed an opening and are pushing that advantage.

Huckabee isn't a corporate con -- he isn't even a millionaire! -- and he certainly isn't a neocon. His foreign policy would actually be predicated on liberal ideals of respect, trust and cooperation -- poison to those who get their foreign policy from Soldier of Fortune magazine T-shirt ads: "kill 'em all and let god sort them out".

He's a theocon, the very people who empowered the corporate cons and neocons the past two decades by their tireless on-the-ground activism while the others kept their fingernails clean in their Wall Street and think tank corner offices. Now that the theocons are threatening to take ther turn at the helm of the GOP, it's amusing how the rest of the -cons in the GOP are suddenly less than thrilled and willing to play ball.

  • ::

Tags: Mike Huckabee, religion, president, 2008 (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 263 comments

  •  Frankenstein's monster! (29+ / 0-)

    On the loose!

    Too funny, kos.

    Restless, agitated, increasingly infuriated passenger on the long train of abuses.

    by OleHippieChick on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 09:56:36 AM PDT

    •  I "pray" that he wins the nomination! (5+ / 0-)

      God Almighty, please make it happen!

      "Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?"

      by awkawk on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:42:35 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Be Careful What you Wish For (26+ / 0-)

        Huck is smooth - he's smart, an excellent speaker and debater, and comes off as very likeable. This is the candidate you want to win the nomination the least.

        And I'll say it now, if Huck goes up against Hillary in the General, we're going to have a BIG problem on our hands. The Christian right will be more energized than they've been in years. And nationally, rightly or wrongly, on the "likeability" scale, Huck is the anti-Hillary. I fear he would sweep the south and the midwest, and take enough western states to really hurt us.

        Huck's populist economics and more liberal policies on education and taxation will also defuse these issues as potential rallying cries for swing voters who otherwise might fall into the Democratic camp. Triangulation anyone?

        Pray that he wins the nomination? No, you don't want it. Romney, Giuliani or McCain - anyone of those three will be easier to beat.

        Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power - Benjamin Franklin

        by johninPortland on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:54:45 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  I agree (11+ / 0-)

          I don't want Huckabee to be the nominee.  I've written about this before, but here's what it boils down to: Huckabee is one of those guys who's wrong on every issue but is really charming.  Seriously-- I know exactly who and what he is, and I can't help but think he's charming, and I know better.

          Fortunately, I don't think he's going to be the nominee.  I wish it were going to be Rudy, but I think it will end up being McCain.

          Birding in New England: advocacy for birds and birders.

          by juliewolf on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:57:33 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Well, out of all the GOP (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            pHunbalanced, juliewolf

            candidates John McCain is by far the most "sane"...which, unfortunately, doesn't really matter anyway since sanity doesn't exert much pull on the typical republican voter.

            The true measure of a man's character lies not in how he treats his friends, but in how he treats his enemies.

            by FunkyEntropy on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:07:46 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

          •  De ja vu all over again. (3+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            pHunbalanced, aitchdee, merrinc

            Huckabee is one of those guys who's wrong on every issue but is really charming.  Seriously-- I know exactly who and what he is, and I can't help but think he's charming, and I know better.

            Shades of Ronald Reagan, anyone?  Huck scares me too.

            No politician ever lost an election by underestimating the intelligence of the American public. PT Barnum, paraphrased...

            by jarhead5536 on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:08:10 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  The first time you see him... (4+ / 0-)

              you may be duped by his "likeability" or "authenticity".  But over time, the more you (anyone) sees him, they see a Jesus-freak who is as unpredictable as plutonium.  

              I know the phenomenon you speak of.  I was duped the first full debate I watched with him.  But not no more.  And I think that travels across party lines and into indie lines... which is where the victory lies.

              "Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?"

              by awkawk on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:12:25 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  I think McCain (7+ / 0-)

            would be the most dangerous candidate of all. I run into SO many people who still perceive him to be the moderate, reasonable voice on 2000 and have no idea he's sold out all his principles. I've been relieved to see him plummet in the polls because he would be very, very difficult to beat.

            On the other hand, I don't think people should underestimate the eventual nominee, Mittens Romney. He's smart and he's smooth and I tihnk he can convince people he has positions the opposite of what he is on record saying, a talent he's going to need. Right now, he's low in the polls because people don't know him. Unlike Giuliani whom people knew and sorta liked until they were actually exposed to him, I think Mittens is going the other way. However, we will still beat him.

            And Lamar Alexander is a hoot if he really thinks the GOP's biggest problem is that their "presentation" has gotten stale. It's about the total lack of content, Lamar!

            We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

            by anastasia p on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:22:25 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Look at the national polls (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Geotpf

              Giuliani is still the only one that even comes close to beating our top three.

              "Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?"

              by awkawk on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:27:29 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

              •  He's got way too many liabilities (0+ / 0-)

                for that to hold. Right now, 80% of the people they're asking perceive him as "that mayor who made the brave speeches after 9-11." He's already taken a dive since the Sex on the City scandal emerged, and once the whole country is aware of what the NYC first responders think of him and it starts being discussed how he jeopardized their lives for his convenience and profit, and the full extent of his messy personal life is known, and his close relationship with the indicted Bernie Kerik is common knowledge, and people are exposed to his testy personality and short temper, and someone finally asks "Well, what IS his extensive foreign policy experience?", and.....do I need to go on? Most people don't know most of these things yet but they are not concealable no matter how hard to media tries.

                We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

                by anastasia p on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:45:39 PM PDT

                [ Parent ]

                •  Exactly (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  kaye

                  I don't disagree with you but think of the same fodder which has been put out by their own establishment against the Huckster!  No foreign policy experience, a liberal on taxes, criticizes Bush and runs left of Hilary.  I mean, the downsides to him are far more extensive than to Giuliani who's already been exposed over the past year of all the accusations you've pointed out.

                  That said, Giuliani is tanking and has no shot of the nomination.  Romney seems to be the shoe-in... and he's the Bush/establishment choice, although extremely beatable.

                  "Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?"

                  by awkawk on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:50:59 PM PDT

                  [ Parent ]

            •  I gotta agree (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              SadTexan, seesdifferent

              McCain v. Hillary is still the scenario that makes me worry most.  I know he's in the tank now, but who knows what will happen in the next few months...

            •  Amen, it is like duh, you are just (0+ / 0-)

              now figuring out that 1980's policies don't work in 2008? The Republican party has put idealology ahead of reality for so long that they cannot bring themselves to admit that life keeps marching on and time changes things. Are they really waking up to the fact that progress is needed to keep a balance between corporate greed and the needs of the citizens? I think not I believe it is all about them not being on top legitimatetly voted in by the voters without riging the system. They can't handle the truth!

          •  Nah, I used to think like this (0+ / 0-)

            But I no longer do.

            Before Huckabee was getting a lot of press, the few drive-by interviews he did get and his debate appearances did make him look very charming.  But if he is actually the nominee (and even now with him leading in Iowa and surging everywhere), his pure fundie whackjob-ness will come to center stage.  He has a shot at winning the nomination, and if he does, he will lose big time.

            There's no way McCain wins (although he's doing slightly better recently in New Hampshire-but only in New Hampshire).  Paul and Thompson have no chance as well.  The only other viable canidates, IMHO, are Rudy (who's fading fast and may be out of it if he can't stop his fall) and Romney.  Romney's a worse canidate than Huckabee, simply because Southern Baptists won't vote for a Mormon, which means he loses half the South.  Rudy's probably a better one, electorally.

        •  I disagree (6+ / 0-)

          Sorry, but there is too much light shone on a candidate during the general.  The reason establishment repubs don't like him is the same reason the rest of the country will reject him.  Bible-thumping scares the hell out of people who are not bible-thumpers.

          His nomination, and as a result him taking a handful of states in the general, will doom the repubs all the way down ticket in 80% of states.  And will doom the repub brand for a decade.

          "Could an omnipotent being create a rock so heavy that even that being could not lift it?"

          by awkawk on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:06:55 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  i am not so sure (8+ / 0-)

          i watched larry king last night and he had huckabee and chuck norris on. chuck would interject himself into the conversation when huckabee was digging himself into a hole or when he could not answer a question. i don't think he will be able to take the heat if he has to have chuck norris to protect him that is not a good sign.  and btw does anybody besides me think this guy looks like gomer pyle? the late nigh comedy shows will have a field day with him.

          Life's a gift--unwrap it.

          by MantisOahu on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:22:38 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  the GOP will try to annoint McCain (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          kaye

          the Wall Street Journal recounts McCain's latest round of pandering. Presto, McCain takes the Norquist pledge, just like when he went to Bob Jones University to prostrate himself before Falwell.

          fouls, excesses and immoderate behavior are scored ZERO at Over the Line, Smokey!

          by seesdifferent on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 05:01:50 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

        •  There is a reason why Hucakbee is likeable..... (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          Geotpf

          I started liking this guy about six months back when I heard a speech of him talking to a room full of conservatives:

          Paraphrase)
          Huckabee- We need to close our borders!
          Crowd- YEAH
          Huckabee- Marriage is between a man and a woman!
          Crowd - YEAH
          Huckabee- We need to be more like Jesus and help out our fellow man and those in need!
          Crowd- crickets

          Trust me, the REAL reason why the Republican party is scared of Huckabee is because he exposes the philosophical gap between social conservatism and fiscal conservatism.
          Many of the religious right talk a good game, but when it comes down to getting federal funding of social programs ( which is basically putting the Jesus ethic into action), they turn into hypocrites and start talking about 'fiscal conservatism' (which is basically, "I'm a stingy bastard, and it's every man for themselves".)

          You do NOT want Mike Hucakbee wining the nomination.   He will attract MANY moderate Democrat, middle American voters who are Christians.

          And he WILL beat Hillary in the GE.  

      •  We better make sure that one (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        pHunbalanced, kaye, MantisOahu

        of our "populists" are running against him then!  Obama is the top choice in our Tampa Bay area with our "swing" voters, Edwards may do well and Hillary will get trounced with her war votes and MIC/corporate ties.

    •  So, are you suggesting (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Geotpf

      that Huck represents the breakdown of the coalition between the oil-finance-healthcare-etc. interests and the fundies?  Huck would not necessarily support the former?  This is the basis for the Republican opposition to him?

      The fundies alone can't win?

      •  Remember (3+ / 0-)

        The 'coalition' has always given the corporatists the presidential nominee. Bush is corporatist, not religious and Cheney does not care a bit about the religious folks. If the coalition were serious a religious nominee would be supported by the corporatists.

      •  right--the fundies alone can't win (14+ / 0-)

        and the fiscal conservatives know that.

        so they are fighting with the social conservatives to accept Rudy.

        but the forced-birth folks absolutely will NOT vote for Rudy, and the other social conservatives feel his multiple marriages and affairs are a character issue.

        the GWOT people are upset about Huck's lack of foreign policy experience.

        the wingnut evangelicals think the LDS is a cult so they will not vote for Romney.

        Plus for the last 20 years Rs have usually coalesced around one candidate early.  Conflicting messages from R leaders is confusing the masses because GASP they might have to make up their own minds!  They can't just fall in with the person who has been chosen for them because party leadership is still fighting over whom to choose.  They are looking to Bush for direction and he is not indicating who he prefers.  Rush Limbaugh hasn't decided yet either, although he's rejected a suggestion that he endorse Ron Paul.  some people are having to evaluate candidates for themselves for the first time in their voting lives and they are not comfortable with it.

        That herd mentality helps Huckabee--if he wins Iowa a bunch of people will just go with him because he seems like the winner.

        Rs are in complete disarray.  Good.  It couldn't happen to a nicer party.

        Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
        76 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

        by TrueBlueMajority on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:05:58 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

        •  by process of elimination (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TrueBlueMajority, DaleA

          you end up with Grandpa Fred.

          Nobody's got a good reason to vote For him, except that they have a good reason to vote Against everybody else.

          McCain -- immigration, campaign finance
          Mitt -- flip flops, Mormonism
          Huckster -- immigration, crime, taxes, too fundie
          Rudy -- social issues

          A Thompson/Huckabee ticket could be problematic.

          Enterpriser; Hard core Libertarian: +6.63 / -4.41

          by jimsaco on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:13:46 PM PDT

          [ Parent ]

          •  Thompson?! Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!! (6+ / 0-)

            No friggin way Thompson wins this thing. He has zero charisma. Although it would be amusing if he did, he'd probably oversleep the day of one of the debates.

            Anyway - this is supposed to be a Huck thread. I digress.

            Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power - Benjamin Franklin

            by johninPortland on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:27:19 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  Huckabee (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              IseFire, TrueBlueMajority

              now takes over from Dobson as the most influential evangelical.  He's only 52 and will be with us a long time.

              VP is his for the asking.  But he will not be the nominee.

              If not Grandpa Fred, I would bet on Romney.  

              Enterpriser; Hard core Libertarian: +6.63 / -4.41

              by jimsaco on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:33:52 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

            •  Thompson is vanilla (4+ / 0-)

              Vanilla

              He is the easiest flavor for everyone to agree on.

              All of the nominees will lose because they are all supporting indefinite American involvement in Iraq and with the exception of RG they are all "forced birth." Not to mention the fact that they are all fatally flawed by their party affiliation, Republican.

              As for Huckabee, Republicans are all for Christianity unless it costs them something. Love your neighbor as yourself does not for them translate into actions such as providing universal health care or a sane approach to immigration reform. They are all for Jesus, unless He asks them to help the poor and disadvantaged. The Republican party’s real god is wealth and comfort.

              The pattern is as predictable as global warming. The "Conservative Christian" record of social action is not very good when it comes to economic issues. They really don’t want to follow Jesus if it means that they need to believe that humanity is one and that their wealth obligates them to serve the poor.

              If Huckabee wants to be a preacher of the principles of Jesus, he will never be elected, especially by conservatives.

              We shall overcome, someday. Yes we can.

              by Sam Wise Gingy on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 04:10:45 PM PDT

              [ Parent ]

          •  Thompson ANYWHERE on the ticket (2+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            TrueBlueMajority, Geotpf
            would be problematic -- for the GOP. He rapidly showed that he has zero charisma and puts people to sleep. And TWO Southerners? I think not. (OK, I know Gore and Clinton but....it's not the south the GOP needs to hold or win over). Thompson's done.

            We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

            by anastasia p on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:28:50 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

        •  ! Wow - interesting analysis (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TrueBlueMajority

          Well-presented and (to me) an original perspective on what the GOP is facing.

        •  Nailed it. (1+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          TrueBlueMajority

          Conflicting messages from R leaders is confusing the masses because GASP they might have to make up their own minds!  They can't just fall in with the person who has been chosen for them because party leadership is still fighting over whom to choose.  They are looking to Bush for direction and he is not indicating who he prefers.

          This sums up the Republican Condition quite nicely, except that it leaves out the cause:

          The Bush Presidency is a Disaster.

          The Republicans are a party without leaders, essentially. Oh, there are people sitting in the chairs, but their voice is being drowned out by the most monumental load of idiocy to ever blast forth from the White House.

          Support Bush, you look like an idiot.
          Condemn Bush, you look like a traitor.

          They made up this bed, and now they have to lie in it.

          The time has never been better for a third party in America.

          Populist right + populist left + looming crisis = Change.

          We need to be appealing to those disaffected conservatives who are conservative because they're Americans and they really get into that for some reason. Environmental consciousness, individual freedom and belief in social responsibility and true democracy are not exclusive to either party. We not only can work together, we have to.

          T.

          •  maybe they don't have leaders (0+ / 0-)

            but they have opinion masters, and for the first time since the mid-80s they are not speaking in one coordinated voice.  The pundits who speak for the various factions (social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, theocons and neocons and warhawks) all have a different preference.  Rush Limbaugh has said he's going to be the kingmaker, but apparently even he can't make up his own mind without talking points from above.  Plus Rush has painted himself in a corner--he has created such an extreme intolerance for any form of moderate Republicanism ("moderates and centrists are worse than liberals") that he can't now reverse himself and say Rs have to go moderate to win.  But no one is pure enough on ALL the wingnut issues to pass muster.

            I agree with you that the fault lies with the ineptitude, corruption and evil of the Bush Administration.  Bush has been such a disaster that even if he did appear to endorse someone at this point it would only influence the 24% who still support Bush.   So many in his own party are disenchanted with him that the endorsement of the sitting president could actually hurt that candidate even at the primary level, and certainly in the general.  This hurts McCain the most--he put his eggs in the Bush basket and even supported the war, but still did not get anointed the heir apparent.  

            And I agree with you in a BIG way that we have to find a way to appeal to disaffected conservatives.  They are so upset with how their party has gone off track and pulled the country off track that they are even looking to the Democrats to see if we have any better choices on our side.  If we do have anyone who could be a uniter and not a divider, the time for that candidate to step forward is now.

            Politics is like driving. To go backward, put it in R. To go forward, put it in D.
            76 days until the '08 elections. Let's paint the country BLUE!

            by TrueBlueMajority on Wed Dec 19, 2007 at 07:21:38 AM PDT

            [ Parent ]

    •  I just realized as I was scrolling through the pos (10+ / 0-)

      how familiar this all sounded and I'm thinking, wait, wait...where have we heard all this before?

      And it dawned on me: Ohio gubernatorial race, 2006.

      The wingnuts had their perfect fundie, J. Kenny Blackwell.  His only real issues were gays, abortion and slashing taxes to destroy government. The state GOP establishment freaked. They persuaded one of the more moderate, well-established, non-wingnut candidates, Betty Montgomery, to run for attorney general instead (Thanks for unexpectedly losing that race, Betty honey. In doing so and making Marc Dann attorney general, you will be improving the quality of life for regular people in this state, not just big Republican donors.) Then they put all their money and effort behind the other, Jim Petro. He was endorsed by most of the county chairman and virtually every big GOP fundraiser and string-puller. Blackwell had fundie wingnuts, the Revs. Rod Parsley and Russell Johnson.

      And Blackwell not only won the primary but he brought along a wingnut treasurer candidate (who beat the GOP's carefully nurtured choice) so bad -- running on an anti-choice, anti-gay platform and so lacking in financial experience -- that hordes of Republicans worked for and contributed to her opponent.

      I heard for a year, "Don't underestimate Ken Blakwell because he's down 20 points in the polls. He's personable, charismatic, golden-tongued, persuasive. He'll make Ted Strickland look like a schlub."

      What he made Ted Strickland look like was sane. He also made Ted Strickland governor by 23 points.

      This diary is dead on. The people who control the GOP has always been lying to the fundies. This is why I never understood people freaking out over the idea that the administration was looking to create Armageddon. They may have told the fundies that but they were only looking for opportunities to increase the value of Dick Cheney's Halliburton stock options and the profits of his and Bush's oil buddies.

      We're retiring Steve LaTourette (R-Family Values for You But Not for Me) and sending Judge Bill O'Neill to Congress from Ohio-14: http://www.oneill08.com/

      by anastasia p on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:40:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  No, no walk this for Frau Blucher and the Knocker (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      awkawk, Rosebuddear, James Kresnik

      This is about sewing and reaping..The chickens coming home to roost..The 262' tall Jesus..Oral Robbers University..Ephiphinies and Larry Flint..Will the New Leaner Raptured up Huck be civilized or will he run off to the territories to avoid becoming a spawn and tool of that Old devil, Old Beeelzebub..Will the New Hucklebeee perform Healings and Exoorcisims on TV to Prove, to prove his religiosity..ill the New Huch tell it like it is about Mitt, the Mormans, Reverend Mooon and cults..Expekt a fukin miracul from the Huck, like that perdue guy down in Georgia, asking Gawd for rain and Receeeiving RAIN !..The Robes, the incense, the crystal cathedrals, the universities, the Air Force Academy..yes, yes, we will all reach out and touch the face of Gawd or Hucks ass..

      "Better a little late, than a little never"..Julian Winston

      by Johnny Rapture on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:42:00 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  Some varm milk?...perhaps? (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Johnny Rapture

        Ovaltine?

        LOLOLOL!!!

        A recommend for the Frau Blucher reference. :)
        From one of my favorite movies EVER.

        (Disclaimer: got a last name that sounds a little bit like that and being an old 50-something bat and all......:):):)

        Love this whole thread. Yes it's definitely sow and reap time. Couldn't happen to a nicer party hahahah.

        They painted themselves into a corner by pandering to these crazies for years. Having Pat Robertson actually go on the teevee and endorse RUDI GIULIANI was the final touch of mirth. I just about busted a gut laughing at that one.

    •  and he's gonna bite the GOP (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gsenski

      right on it's tender backside. They wanted the Religious Right to help them win elections, and now the Repubs are defined by the Religious Right. A bit too late for them to start whining now.

      I'm at the junction of short, nerdy, and oddly attractive.

      by Pan Zareta on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:47:49 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  LOL.........Huck Huckleberry Huckster Huckstein (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gsenski

      Hologram.  

      "...fighting the wildfires of my life with squirt guns."

      by deMemedeMedia on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 04:33:33 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  It will be amusing (22+ / 0-)

    if and when the GOP field, in its increased desperation, starts using Huckabee's extreme religious positions AGAINST him.   There's only limited mileage in attacking his tax and social policies.   Sooner or later someone--maybe a Romney or Giuliani, may have to pull out the knives against his religiosity.

    He's confusing them deeply, because now he's even attacking Bush. What do they stand to gain by disagreeing with him there?

    Who was Bush_Horror2004, anyway?

    by Dartagnan on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 09:56:56 AM PDT

    •  And they will (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Hillbilly Dem

      Political expediency will trump any cosy religious leanings any day of the week for these people. God is only of use to them to the degree He gets them votes.

    •  never happen (4+ / 0-)

      That's the third rail of Republican politics.  They are going to try to take him down on crime, taxes, immigration and reluctance to destroy foreign countries.

      Enterpriser; Hard core Libertarian: +6.63 / -4.41

      by jimsaco on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:10:27 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Dream team? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Geotpf

      Once Huckabee has gotten the fundies hopes up, they're going to be pretty upset if he gets shot down.  Possibly mad enough to stay home for the general election or even run someone (maybe Huckabee?) as a 3rd party candidate.  If that scenario plays out then the entire GOP ticket could go down in flames nationwide.  Lets hope that Dean has some good folks lined up in all races so that we don't end up with a lot of nutcases in Congress with a "D" after their names (we've already got enough of those ;-(

      --- January 2009: A time to mend!

      by KingBolete on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 04:32:08 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  If Huck Goes Down (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Geotpf

        He'd have to go down pretty hard to be locked out of the ticket altogether. Even if he doens't get the nomination, he's likely on everyone's short list for Veep.

        Aside from Huck, your top dogs are two western staters (McCain and Mittens) and one New Yorker. An evangelical southerner balances out any one of these three.

        Nominee or not, we're going to see lots of Huckie next year.

        Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power - Benjamin Franklin

        by johninPortland on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 05:33:16 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  This has been something I've been waiting for... (22+ / 0-)

    for a long time now.

    Huckabee is the perfect candidate for the religious right and the horrible candidate for everyone else in the Republican party who have been able to use them as puppets for a long time.

    Having Huckabee taking the lead in Iowa is, for Republicans, like having David Duke win a primary for a Democratic Louisiana Senate seat: it reveals something very uncomfortable about the party's history and its players that the party would rather pretend weren't the case.  In the Democratic party, they had the integrity to oppose Duke as a candidate, but I don't know quite what the Republicans will do if Huckabee turns out to be their guy.

  •  Here is another example (17+ / 0-)

    of how brilliant Kos is... amazing analyis.  

    Huckabee isn't a corporate con -- he isn't even a millionaire! -- and he certainly isn't a neocon. His foreign policy would actually be predicated on liberal ideals of respect, trust and cooperation -- poison to those who get their foreign policy from Soldier of Fortune magazine T-shirt ads: "kill 'em all and let god sort them out".

    He's a theocon, the very people who empowered the corporate cons and neocons the past two decades by their tireless on-the-ground activism while the others kept their fingernails clean in their Wall Street and think tank corner offices. Now that the theocons are threatening to take ther turn at the helm of the GOP, it's amusing how the rest of the -cons in the GOP are suddenly less than thrilled and willing to play ball.

    In that simple two paragraphs he climbs through years of muck that Democrats have never understood about the Republicans and why Democratic officials have always fell to their knees again and again, some call it spineless,  to their Corporate masters that run the whole place.  Go grassroots, kick them all out of the Beltway.

    don't link to MSM; support your alternative grassroots media by linking to them

    by john from vermont on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 10:01:52 AM PDT

    •  I'm not so sure that Huckabee's foreign (11+ / 0-)

      policy would be predicated on the liberal ideals of respect, trust and cooperation.  My sense is that Huckabee, like Dubya, would conduct foreign policy from his "gut," rather than on the basis of any actual knowledge of foreign affairs (witness his ignorance of the new Iran NIE for a significant period of time after it was the main topic of political discourse).  Huckabee's "gut" may be less bloodthirsty than Dubya's -- right now.  But remember, Dubya was the candidate espousing a return to a "humble" foreign policy in 2000.

      Any candidate who would listen to his gut and to God in making critical national security decisions is a potential neo-con.  Huckabee may not be one right now, but I wouldn't want to give the likes of Norm Podheretz and Fred Kagan a chance to "guide" him on those issues.  

      "Mom, did you hurt yourself, or are you yelling at the TV again?

      by litigatormom on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:05:34 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  The President Does Not Run the Executive Branch (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        trevzb, gsenski, R Rhino from CT4

        where matters of empire and high economy are concerned, especially a Republican pres.

        There will be Viceroys making sure Huck is staying out of the way of the march of empire and supporting it as ordered.

        I'm sure his list of Court nominees is already drawn up for him too.

        We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy.... --ML King "Beyond Vietnam"

        by Gooserock on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:22:29 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

    •  B.S. (2+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      gsenski, R Rhino from CT4

      His foreign policy would actually be predicated on liberal ideals of respect, trust and cooperation.

      This sounds like it was written by someone who would have believed that George Bush was actually a "compassionate conservative," or, for that matter, that the foreign policy of most of the Democrats running for President won't have precisely the same goals, if not precisely the same tactics, as those of all the Republicans.

      Has Huckabee, or any of the Democrats except Kucinich, for example, actually said: "Preemptive war is illegal under international law and I intend for this country to obey international law"? If so I missed it. Yes, maybe some (including maybe Huckabee, although I'm far from convinced) won't be quite as quick to send in the troops, or the bombers. But it's hardly a qualitative difference from the present.

      Eli Stephens
      Left I on the News

      by elishastephens on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 04:30:38 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Did this diary disappear? (5+ / 0-)

    I can't find it anywhere now except by going back to the page it was already at when I first pulled it up.

  •  as I said, Huckabee is a nightmare (6+ / 0-)

    fior the GOP

    So now the GOP is left with their establishment candidates, flawed as they are, (Giuliani, Romney, McCain, and Thompson) battling and splitting up the non-evangelical base as Huck takes the lionshare of the evangelical base.  It's a recipe for disaster for the GOP.  Now with the frontrunner's bullseye on him, story after story will come out in the media of his crazy and kooky views, but those stories won't turn off the evangelical GOP base, just everybody else.  The GOP establishment is reeling right now for having to carry water for Bush the last 7 years, do you think they have any stomach for getting behind Mike Huckabee?  Bush was a perfect GOP candidate because he appealed to their evangelical nutty base, but he was about as establishment GOP as you could get.  Huckabee is actually just the nutty base. The GOP big dogs would never entrust the US economy to him.  But they don't have a good way of taking him down with the base, because they've spent so much time trying to sell Rudy McRomney Thompson.  If the GOP establishment goes into high gear to take down Huckabee, they run the risk of pissing off the entire evangelical wing of their party, and wrecking their 2008 GOTV.  But if Huckabee rides an Iowa big victory all the way to the nomination, it will be an embarrassment for the whole GOP establishment, and cause independents to continue their flight away from the Republican party.

    "There have been tyrants, and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it. Always." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    by duha on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:25:03 PM PDT

  •  The GOP elite is as naive as it is stupid (13+ / 0-)

    They helped built a movement based on zealotry, absolute loyalty to the party "of family values", and "putting God back into the public square".

    "Ann Coulter: Godless" is the perfect example of what they were shooting for, a foamy mouthed spittle flecked shriek that Liberals "hate" America and "hate" God, so you should flock to the GOP.

    So, they did.

    And, after three decades of pandering and preening, they got a party ruled by the family values God back in the public square crowd.

    Talk about elitist and out of touch.

    Now the religious right is a bunch of yokels, hicks with bibles, practically calling them everything short of "the American Taliban". (And maybe that's next.)

    The National Review Online and other bastions of the institutional rightwing like Fox News are suddenly sounding like they hate the sight of activist Evangelical Christianity at its own garden party without ever saying the term 'Activist Conservative Evangelical Christians".

    I hope Mike Huckabee from the Theo-Cons and Ron Paul from the Paleo-Cons just eat them all alive.

    They did everything they are screeching about to themselves. Alienate hispanics and putting the Theocrats in a position of be in charge.

    You couldn't ask for a bigger path to being a permanent minority party.

    "Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everyone in good society holds exactly the same opinion." - Oscar Wilde

    by LeftHandedMan on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:29:34 PM PDT

    •  And its more than religious zealotry (12+ / 0-)

      Every aspect of the GOP has been a crusade:

      Supply side economics.
      Affirmative Action must die.
      Tax cuts at all costs.
      The "Liberal" media.
      The "Death Tax".
      The Imperial Presidency as long as the President is a Republican.
      The Law being Partisan as long as the AG is a Republican.
      Terry Schaivo.
      The Iraq war.

      They were all crusades.

      "Jihaaaaaaaaaaaad!!!!!!!!!!!!"

      Conservatives identify something not as wrong, but as the most evil and unAmerican thing that is imaginable literally poisoning life as you know it.

      Now, how do you push back against the religious right and Mike Huckabee when you have established that anything and anyone who attacks the family values agenda is evil and must be destroyed?

      The ultimate Conservative Catch-22:

      Heresy is the biggest sin in the Republican party and of elitist conservatives and Dittoheads alike.

      Heresy is the only way for the elite conservatives to stop the GOP from utterly imploding.

      "Arguments are extremely vulgar, for everyone in good society holds exactly the same opinion." - Oscar Wilde

      by LeftHandedMan on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:37:55 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  Yeah, Coulter (15+ / 0-)

      She bitches that the evil Libruls threw God out of the public square, then calls the guy who's trying to drag Him back in "a Republican Jimmy Carter".

      Can we stop giving a fuck what she thinks now?

      See you at the debate, bitches!

      by calipygian on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:40:56 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

    •  If the GOP elite is so naive and stupid (6+ / 0-)

      Then how have they held power since 1980?  Even under Clinton, they were calling the shots.  Even with Congress in Democratic hands, they are calling the shots.  Someone may be naive and stupid, but it ain't the GOP elite.

      "Great men do not commit murder. Great nations do not start wars." William Jennings Bryan

      by Navy Vet Terp on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 03:01:04 PM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  yup! It's the post-Goldwater anti-tax elites 1st. (2+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        aitchdee, gsenski

        You're right about that: the GOP elite if where the money and planning back in the 1970's came from that has got the GOP in control of 3 branches of gov't. Granted, some of that elite, like the Coors family, were also members of the religious right. But none of that elite were the likes of Jerry Falwell, who came later, who was--in effect--recruited.

        The radical anti-tax people pissed off as hell over Goldwater's defeat were really the ones who first got the think tanks up and running, crafted messaging, looked for alliances, etc.

        Nonetheless, they must at this point be a bit concerned about the religious right part of the GOP coalition. They do seem to have somewhat lost some control over it.

      •  Gotta Admit - (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        ddriscoll, James Kresnik, gsenski

        Navy Vet Terp has a point.

        Wrong they may be, but stupid doesn't cut it.

        Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power - Benjamin Franklin

        by johninPortland on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 05:42:59 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

      •  The Republicans have gained the power they have (0+ / 0-)

        by appealing to fear, divisiveness, bigotry, racism, patriotic appeals to uneducated people who unquestioningly believed their line of bullshit, as well as the organized Republican criminal activity that our obliging press corp has allowed to operate through the tenure of the Bush regime.  Rather than "niave and stupid", I would characterize the GOP as cynical criminals who would wreak havoc on the masses of "little people" for their own personal financial gain.

        And it feels like I'm livin'in the wasteland of the free ~ Iris DeMent, 1996

        by MrJersey on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 10:15:57 PM PDT

        [ Parent ]

  •  The Superfluous Third Nipple of the GOP. (4+ / 0-)

    That appendage serves the Dems nicely.

    Thank you for covering this. It is very important.

    :)

    :::::

  •  Peggy Noonan (5+ / 0-)

    really makes me cry. Peggy has no idea what she has said in the past and apparently does not care.  Want to talk about relativist.  

    "For the love of god learn to think on your own" Me

    by givemhellHarryR on Tue Dec 18, 2007 at 02:38:27 PM PDT

  •  When Lamar Alexander is calling you stale (13+ / 0-)</