Daily Kos

New Democratic Immigration Strategy ...Sort Of

Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 06:30:50 AM PDT

The Democratic Party finally released what appears to be their official strategy/talking points intended to counter the Republican immigration wedge.

Now, I'm not a high paid consultant, or a professional Washington strategist with a long history of losing campaigns, but for the life of me I can't seem to figure out what the Democratic leadership is trying to accomplish with this plan.

Up until now it appeared that the "Republican-lite" strategy developed by Rahm Emanuel and the DLC centrists looked like it would become the party line. But with this new strategy, recently released on the party's website, I frankly haven't a clue what the Dems ultimate plan is.

The strategy in essence revolves around a few key concepts:

  • The Republicans are using the immigration issue for political gain
  • The Republicans had plenty of time to fix immigration and didn't
  • The Republicans have been unable to secure the border
  • The Republicans are using fear and bigotry to scapegoat immigrants
  • The scapegoating isn't working

Of course there's one glaring omission in this strategy .... there isn't any sort of a alternative plan proposed

Nowhere is there a word about what in fact the Democrats are going to do about immigration. Not even the usual vague call for "comprehensive reform that secures our border while providing a path to citizenship to undocumented immigrants."  And you can just forget about specifics.  

But what’s even more troubling is the tone and tenor of the talking points    

Despite having majorities in Congress for twelve years and a President in the White House for the last seven years, Republicans ignored the issues of border security and immigration reform until it became politically convenient. To distract from their failure to address the issues and to distract from their failed economic policies, Republicans turned immigration into a wedge issue for electoral gain that has relied on scapegoating people and dividing Americans.

From border walls that were never funded to trying to criminalize immigrants, their families, and even clergy, the Republican legacy on border security and immigration reform amounts to failure and scapegoating....

• For Years, Administration’s Catch and Release Policy Left Gaping Hole In Nation’s Security, While Targeting Mexicans.

• Through First Five Years of Bush Administration, Apprehensions of Illegal Immigrants Dropped, Deportable Aliens Declined, and Audits of Employers Dropped.

• DHS Has Wasted Millions On Failed Border Security Programs.

• Bush Administration Underfunded Border Security Called For By 9/11 Act.

• Republican Congress Provided Only Half of Mandated Border Agents, Killed Democratic Attempts to Meet Full Mandate.

• 2001-2005: Republicans Killed 5 Separate Attempts to Increase Border Security Funding By Over $2 Billion.

• 2005: Republicans Voted Against 650 Border Patrol Agents.

• 2003: Republicans Voted Against $750 Million for Border Security.

• But the GOP Didn’t Even Fund the Fence, Only Offered "Down Payment" On Fence Construction; Billions More Needed To Build.

What exactly are the Dems trying to say here?  

Are they going to build a better wall?

Fund more Border Patrol Agents?

In essence, are they saying they will do the job the Republicans haven't been willing or able to do?

It looks like they're trying to send the message that when it comes to "border security" the Republicans have been as ineffective as they were with Katrina, Iraq, and the economy, and the Dems can do a better job.

And while this strategy might play with some discontented Republicans and swing independents, it raises serious questions about the Dems commitment to meaningful reform that doesn't rely on simplistic solutions like wall building and armed guards every 50ft along the border.

If trying to "out-Republican the Republicans" on border security is the best the leadership can come up with, they need to go back to the drawing board and start reworking this idea. For one thing, the Republicans own the misguided "border security" concept, and those that agree with them will never be convinced that the Dems could ever be as "tough"...or cruel ... as say Tom Tancredo or Duncan Hunter are trying to force the Republican Party to be.

So obviously this strategy must be aimed at a broader audience. Those swing voters, independents, and Democrats, who polls show would support legalization of the 12 million unauthorized immigrants, but still want "strong border enforcement"

And here is where this strategy has its greatest flaw.

Instead of using the Republican's inability to "secure the borders" as an opening to introduce the broader, more sweeping changes, that would eventually decrease illegal entry and mass economic migration, they imply that they can simply do the same job ... but better.  

Instead they should be saying that after all these years the Republicans cannot physically seal the borders, because trying to "physically" seal the borders is not the answer. No wall can be high enough, and no amount of money spent, large enough. There have to be other, more complex, and comprehensive ways of controlling immigration:

  • Things like adjusting free trade agreements so they don't foster poverty in sender nations.
  • Things like working with foreign governments in sender nations to ensure that they not only respect human rights, but worker rights and economic justice.
  • Things like examining and reforming our immigration codes to make them more practical, fair, and reflective of economic realities.
  • Things like fixing our immigration bureaucracy so it can efficiently and humanely process the flow of immigrants in a timely and effective manner.

And these are but just a few of the things that should be talked about. There are many, many more.

If, in an ironic twist on Rovian tactics, the goal of the Democrat's attack on the Republican's inability to "secure the border" is to make a weakness out of their presumed strength of being tough on immigration, they need to fill that void with an alternative plan ... And it should be plain and simple to present to the American people: "You can't build a wall high enough – We've got smarter answers"

Additionally this strategy has one other troubling aspect; the notion that the "Scapegoating is not working"

For one, it's just not accurate.

Anyone who has followed this issue over time knows that during the past two years the polling has been consistently shifting towards the right. And no wonder. Between Republican politicians beating the issue to death for a lack of anything else on the agenda, and the right-wing noise machine hammering away on it, the public increasingly moves further and further from the center. The MSM has only added to this shift by allowing Republicans a pass on important issues of the day, by letting them focus the debate on immigration.   The trend is obvious, and unless the Democrats start to effectively counter the immigration wedge, any predictions about it's political power a year from now are speculative at best.

The second, and more troubling,  aspect for concern about underestimating the effectiveness of scapegoating immigrants is that it demonstrates a total disconnect with the concerns of the very Latino voters the Democrats are so sure are guaranteed to flock to the party.

In fact, the "scapegoating" page on the website links to an article about the political price the Republicans will pay for demonizing Latino immigrants.

But, at the same time, Democrats are trying to convince voters that just because the polling shows that immigration is currently not a "top tier" issue for the American people, or that the wedge didn't work in the last two election cycles, somehow this demonstrates scapegoating's ineffectiveness.

But this sends a message that runs contrary to Latino's everyday experiences.

Latino voters know all too well the ramifications of current toxic political environment. They are appalled by the constant racial and ethnic attacks that pass for political discourse. Hate crimes against Latinos are at record levels and nearly daily there are stories of raids and roundups of "illegals" portrayed as subhuman criminals. And yes, Latinos see this as a product of a rabidly xenophobic and racist Republican party.... But Democratic downplaying of the impact of  scapegoating, simply because it might prove politically ineffective, marginalizes it's true impact.

This, coupled with the implied emphasis on "border enforcement" and lack of a meaningful  alternative comprehensive plan in this strategy cannot be viewed as good news for Latino voters.

We can only hope that as we move forward with this election and this issue, the Democrats will gain some further insight, and the courage to start to take a true leadership roll, and not only neutralize this issue politically...but actually come up with some real and meaningful solutions.  

Tags: immigration (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

Permalink | 45 comments

    •  So sad (0+ / 0-)

      Of course there's one glaring omission in this strategy .... there isn't any sort of a alternative plan proposed

      and the beat goes on....

      I find this so annoying. I think the reason the Dems don't have a plan is because "guest worker" was already taken.

      Inquiry that does not achieve coordination of behaviour is not inquiry but simply wordplay - Richard Rorty

      by BuckMulligan on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 06:59:29 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  The reason Democrats (5+ / 0-)

    don't suggest an alternative is because they don't have one.  This does not bode well.

    •  At least not a popular one (0+ / 0-)

      Immigration is the third rail, if the Democrats push for what they really want, and draw attention to the issue, they'll lose on it, so they'll ignore it.

      Americans have little sympathy for illegal immigrants. It's unfortunate, but true. I know there are those who think Americans are actually a sympathetic bunch, but I don't think they are. i saw polls yesterday showing only 46% of Americans think illegal immigrants should get emergency medical care and only 42% think children of illegal immigrants should be allowed to go to public schools, and that's something even I would support, and I'm probably more conservative on the issue than anyone here. Children shouldn't be punished because their parents are screwups.

  •  GOP debate (4+ / 0-)

    The GOP will use immigration as an issue 2008, because it will play on people's fear.

    Both parties have to take responsibility for steadfastly ignoring the issue, but i blame the private sector for handing out jobs to undocumented workers.

    People on Dailykos are aware of my views, i dont agree on an amnesty, because all it is doing is reward illegal activity, but at the same time i understand that undocumented immigrants are not a bunch of criminals or a threat to national security.

    It is not easy to come to such a view, but politics is not about being popular.

    •  Don't "comprehensive reform" packages poll well? (3+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theboz, BuckMulligan, christine20

      If so, that would suggest that the (R)'s current battle over who is tougher on enforcement-only will redound to the benefit of the (D) candidate in the GE.  Bugscuffle is right: I doubt a feasible alternative will be posed, but all we have to do is let the (R)s self-destruct on this issue.

    •  Dems Head In Sand Approach.... (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      Utahrd

      I understand how "let the GOP shoot themselves" approach could work in 08, but the Dem leadership basically does not have a plan to severely diminsih illegal immigration.

      We primarily have an "illegal employer' problem in this country. If empolyers were fined or jailed for knowingly hiring undocumented workers the influx from south of the boreder would slow to a trickle.

      ........the rub is how to "investigate" empoyers who hire non-citizens, don't want to have more of a police state than we already have.

      The Dem leadership's allegiance to large corporations precludes any meaningful action on illegal immigration.

      Well I've been from Tucson to Tucumcari... Tehachapi to Tonopah--Lowell George/Little Feat

      by frandor55 on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 07:03:56 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

  •  Here's a plan: (4+ / 0-)

    Denounce everyone who raises the issue as a racist.  That should endear us to all those moderates.

    •  A better plan (5+ / 0-)

      ... is to point out the racism that is inherent in the debate...

      And then proceed to answer the legitimate issues with a clear, compassionate, progressive plan to resolve these issues.

      Denouncing racism is always a good idea.

      What is lacking is a clear plan to deal with the other issues.

      •  Good people get sick (3+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Utahrd, sandbox, snackdoodle

        of being called racists.  Trust me.

        •  I think there is confusion (5+ / 0-)

          There is clearly racist rhetoric being used by anti-amnesty side against "illegals". If you can't see this, then any discussion seems futile.

          If someone argues against me about immigration without using stereotypes, I am careful to not call them racist.

          But people who come the issue issue ranting about the typical racist stereotypes, from sexual predation, to wasting welfare, to disease (name one ethnic minority that hasn't been painted with these slurs)... Come on now!

          If you are indeed a good person who opposes our ideas on immigration for non-racist ideas, then fine.

          But, you need to understand that many good people on the pro-immigrant side are very angry that these defamations are being used all over again.

          •  Amnesty is meaningless without inforcement (0+ / 0-)

            thats how we got the 10-12 million we have now.

            •  It is spelled "enforcement" (2+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

              I live in South Texas.  The border issue effects Anglos, as well as Hispanics.  It used to be a border that joined Mexico and Texas.  Now the border is a place of fear, violence, and division.

              We need inclusion, not "inforcement".

              •  We also need to secure our borders (0+ / 0-)

                Unless of course you believe there is nothing to fear and terrorism is just a bad dream. I'm not arguing against inclusion. I never worry about spelling errors or typos because KOS has such good spell checkers.

                •  Secure borders (1+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Nightprowlkitty

                  There is no border between kindred souls.  

                  The border should be a meeting-place, not a free-fire zone.  So it used to be.  

                  When fierce German Shepherds start sniffing the pedestrians who cross the International bridge that links Nuevo Laredo to Laredo, it is not merely the Mexicans who are targeted.  I was terrified, the last time I crossed back.

                  My aunt nearly fainted - she had purchased some wrinkle-cream in Nuevo Laredo.  She kept worrying that she would be arrested, as we crossed the bridge.  Driving back northward, another set of snarling German Shepherds greeted us at a border post 30 miles inland.

                  My sister was taking her turn driving my car.  She laid a peel going out of the post.  

                  Fear is a tactic spreading over our land.

                  God help us if we yield to it.

                  Secure beliefs are more important than secure borders.  I believe that all humankind participates in a communal destiny.    

        •  I feel a little more sorry... (3+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theboz, Nightprowlkitty, Sentido

          ....for the victims of racism.

        •  Yes we do and it does nothing to further (0+ / 0-)

          the discussion or advance reasonable or realistic solutions.

          •  I have seen no ... (1+ / 0-)

            Recommended by:
            theboz

            ... "good people" be called racists.

            I have seen racism being called out.

            This is not only an immigration issue.

            This is a community issue.

            If I see racism or statements that feed into racist memes I will call it out.  Too many folks have left this community because of hurtful racist rhetoric.

            It may not hurt you, but that doesn't mean it isn't hurting someone who doesn't deserve it -- hurting "good people."

            Again, I don't see anyone being called a racist for no reason at all.  I'm tired of this meme.

            •  I've never been called racist over (1+ / 0-)

              Recommended by:
              Nightprowlkitty

              immigration issues, dense and ill informed, but those things are all fixable. There are no easy or quick answers. I've been to Mexico a number of times and I've seen why they leave. I have friends (altho everyone says that) some who have done it the long hard way and some who came over the border. When I lived in Southern California I saw INS raids and they are an ugly inhumane thing. Right now I live where there is a lot of meat packing and so a lot of undocumented workers. I come in contact with them in my job, they are from everything I have experienced decent hard working people and would if we could ever get our shit together, be an asset as citizens.  

              But we can't let them languish as they are, they have no rights, no protections and worst of all no future in this country as things stand. And I don't see how any of these issues can hope to be resolved if we continue to ignore the poverty in Mexico that  drives immigrants north.  

              •  Lol ... (2+ / 0-)

                Recommended by:
                Duke1676, snackdoodle

                ... I don't think most folks have been called racist over this issue (unless they say racist things, and sadly, some do).

                I agree this isn't a simple issue, but after reading many of Duke's diaries on this subject, it's not as complicated as I thought, either.

                We do need workplace enforcement, but enforcement that punishes the employer, not the workers.

                Fact is, even if there were no undocumented workers, greedy employers in "right to work" states can still exploit poor American citizens into working under the table and in poor working conditions.

                We need to strengthen our labor laws, not have ICE agents barging in and hurting folks just to make it look as though they are accomplishing anything.  They are now.

                As Duke says, get OSHA in there, not the ICE.  Get our labor laws back on track.  That would help ALL American workers.

                •  Honestly had never thought of OSHA, but (2+ / 0-)

                  Recommended by:
                  Duke1676, Nightprowlkitty

                  Duke is right.  It is a truly brilliant plan, OSHA gutted tho it may be is probably the one enforcement agency these employers can't weasel around. ICE is useless because all the raids in the world won't stop these businesses because there is so rarely a consequence of any consequence. I am going to check out Duke's diaries, sounds like he is on to something.

                  And have you ever noticed where the right to work states are, deep south and midwest and they are all Red States.  

    •  Bullshit. (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      theboz

      This is Daily Kos, and the discussion here, unfortunately, both includes racism and folks buying into Republican racist rhetoric.  You'll bet I'll call it out.

      As far as "endearing ourselves to moderates," I would think telling the truth, which would blow apart all the lies that have been put forth would endear us very much indeed to them.

      Read Duke's diaries on how to frame this issue in a Democratic way.  I don't see anything in those diaries that would turn anyone off.

      I have seen no one "denounce everyone who raises the issue as a racist."  Have any more straw men to throw out into this conversation?

  •  Popular opinion wants border enforcement before (5+ / 0-)

    granting guest worker status.  The democracts and GW Bush have been opposed.  However in the general election, the Republican candidate will likely favor the popular enforcment first approach.  So this issue will work against the Dems.

    •  Your post is simply wrong.... (7+ / 0-)

      Around 60% of Americans favor a solution that includes a path to citizenship (along with "border security"). A path to citizenship is a progressive solution to the problem.

      Guest worker status is not a progressive solution -- in fact it is a disaster for anyone who care about labor issues. Guest workers are vulnerable and easy to exploit.

      A path to citizenship is clearly the right solution. Guest workers will work for whatever they are offered in whatever conditions they are given. Citizens have the right to change jobs, to earn a better salary, and to complain about conditions.

      Your vague statement about "popular" opinion is not correct according to the polls.

      And given the disaster that guest worker visas present, this is a very good thing.

      •  Im sure you've got several polls to back this up. (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sandbox
      •  I don't have poll info available but I think I am (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        Andy823

        correct.  We'll just have to wait for the campaign to enfold to see who is right.

        Further, I don't see what is wrong with having a guest worker program.  Why does it have to be tied to a path for citizenship.  What if the guest worker doesn't particularly want to become a citizen, they just want to work here?  I'm not against a guest worker becoming a citizen, but why promote it.?

      •  Guest workers (1+ / 0-)

        Recommended by:
        sandbox

        Will do much better than those who are here "illegally".  Illegals are exploited all the time, guest worker programs have minimum wage rules, housing requirements, etc.  Those who come here illegally do not have those things.  They work for what they can get, and many times are cheated on those wages.  They live in cars, tents, or out in the open because they have no choice.  Guest workers fare much better than illegals.

    •  I firmly believe that the voting public (0+ / 0-)

      Have now figured out that the Democratic Party will not even discuss the issue of interior and worksite enforcement before a 'pathway to citizenship for the 12 million' (whatever that may mean today) is guaranteed.

      I believe that I heard Senator Obama confirm this in the NPR debate.

      Markos is now even echoing the Democratic Party line on this 'secure the borders and legalize the 12 million' -- it is IRCA all over again.

      I don't believe it will fly -- I don't believe the public will fall for it -- I give the public credit for knowing that 'secure the borders and legalize the 12 million' will do nothing to solve the issue of illegal immigration.

      If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

      by superscalar on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 07:17:11 AM PDT

      [ Parent ]

      •  You don't think the public will "fall for it"??? (4+ / 0-)

        It sounds like you want the Democrats to fail.

        A pathway to citizenship for the 12 million is far from a trick... it is the most important part of the immigration debate for many progressive American citizens.

        Citizenship is a worthy goal in its own right.

        •  The only thing ... (2+ / 0-)

          Recommended by:
          theboz, Mas Gaviota

          ... I have ever heard from this poster is "enforcement first."

          Never puts forth any solutions.  Never speaks of anything else.

          Superscalar -- a one-trick pony.

          •  I could use your support (0+ / 0-)

            In Markos' Front Page immigration diary this morning.

            Something along the lines of 'yeah Markos, how do you rationalize your unabashed support of NAFTA with your platitudes ('secure the border and legalize the 12 million') about 'comprehensive immigration reform'?

            I most eagerly await your Front Page diary

            On the push effects of NAFTA and other 'free trade' deals as it relates to illegal immigration.

            Gosh, I eagerly await your saying anything about how NAFTA and the flooding of Mexico with subsidized US agriculture has driven Mexican farmers off of their lands and into the US as illegal immigrants.

            I would also love to hear your opinion as to whether or not you believe the new 'free trade' deal with Peru will have the same effect, and if not, why not.

            Given that you are writing quite a few diaries about illegal immigration lately I'm hoping that you'll get around to it RSN.

            I could have also used your support on Markos' Front Page diary yesterday.

            If the terriers and bariffs are torn down, this economy will grow - G. Bush

            by superscalar on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 12:46:52 PM PDT

            [ Parent ]

            •  lol. (0+ / 0-)

              As I could have used your support in so many other areas of this issue?

              I have no complaint about the comment you have quoted.

              Perhaps you should write a diary of your own, now that would be a novel idea.

              As far as "getting" kos to say something, I'm still waiting for him to blog about New Orleans.  Life is tough, dontcha know?

              I don't support NAFTA.  And as a rule I don't support your comments, but you already know that.  

              If you want to get support, you also have to give it.

              Just sayin'.

  •  dems must do more than fling poo! (4+ / 0-)

    immigration needs to be addressed in concert with nafta and agricultural subsidies, they are inextricably interrelated. nafta and ag subsidies are in significant part responsible for drops in mexican wages and the depressed farm economy in mexico.

    most immigrants come here because economic conditions where they are suck and there are jobs available here. i find it hard to believe that most folks who come here illegally do so because they want to leave their families, their home, their culture and come to a place where they have language barriers and know that they are likely to face exploitation or worse.

    dems need to create a plan that fixes the conditions caused by bad trade policy, ag subsidies and deals charitably with illegal immigrants, punishes exploiters and helps countries like mexico develop their economies.

    yoo broke the law, now the law breaks you

    by joe shikspack on Fri Dec 07, 2007 at 07:22:07 AM PDT

  •  you go too far (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    numen

    Latinos see this as a product of a rabidly xenophobic and racist Republican party

    That is total BS and you know it. The Dem and Rep leadership, a dem controlled congress, the MSM, and corporate America lobbists could not stop the will of the people from voting down this crap 3 times. The perfect storm of politics, money, and media couldn’t push the bills through. A dem governor in a blue state, with a NY senator running for prez could not stop the will of the people who are against issuing DL to illegals. Hillary’s flip-flopping on this issue has hurt her so much she is no longer "inevitable".

    The writing is on the wall and the dems are not reading it. This isn't a republican/right issue. This isn’t racism. This is about fairness. The failure of the dems to see this as an American revolt against illegals is astounding. High taxes, healthcare, education, and a tight labor market makes people mad as hell that illegals get those benefits without paying for them. When people find out their property taxes had to raised because the school population has 15-30% illegal children attending and had to hire special Spanish teachers for them because they don’t speak English, property owners get very angry.

    No one believes that illegals pay their fair share of taxes and everyone thinks illegals get special treatment from the government. If citizens commit the exact the same crimes that illegals commit (SSN fraud or identity theft) to be here illegally the citizens could be convicted of a felony and have many rights taken away such as the ability to vote and gun ownership. Citizens will also have a record, perhaps a job loss, jail time, and court/lawyer fees whereas illegals are just getting a free pass. The fact that state and local agencies don’t have to report it builds deep resentment in communities. There also deep resentment with legal immigrants that waited months or years for the paperwork to come through to get here. I didn’t think the dems could loose the next prez election, but now I am not so sure. While the republicans are tripping over themselves to see who can deport the most illegals, dems are still yammering about amnesty.        

    •  You are not God (4+ / 0-)

      That is total BS and you know it.

      How do you know how most latinos feel?  ALL of the ones I know that live in the U.S. feel that way.  Why are nazi and confederate flags flown at anti-immigrant rallies?  Most of the anti-immigrant propaganda out there originates with white supremacists, then you get semi-legitimate racists like Lou Dobbs and Bill O'Reilly to spread the racist propaganda in a format that the general public buys into to some level.  It's obvious from your post that you've bought into it even if you aren't a racist.

      High taxes, healthcare, education, and a tight labor market makes people mad as hell that illegals get those benefits without paying for them.

      This is a Republican lie.  Undocumented immigrants or immigrants in general are not to blame for this.  Rich white Republicans are.  They are the ones screwing up all of that stuff, and just saying the immigrants are responsible so they can shift the blame.

      When people find out their property taxes had to raised because the school population has 15-30% illegal children attending and had to hire special Spanish teachers for them because they don’t speak English, property owners get very angry.

      You are probably lying here, or at least being less than honest.  Name the school district you live in and we'll see how we can find out how many undocumented children are attending.  Of course, you are most likely discussing the number of all latino children there, and you are mad about latinos attending your school district.

      No one believes that illegals pay their fair share of taxes

      Another conservative lie.  Studies have shown that in some areas, they break even, and in others, they pay more in taxes than they can use up in services.  There are issues where the government could allocate money from taxes that undocumented immigrants pay heavily to, to move the money elsewhere to cover their services but aren't, but that is another topic.

      everyone thinks illegals get special treatment from the government.

      No, only racists and idiots believe such nonsense.  Which are you?

      If citizens commit the exact the same crimes that illegals commit (SSN fraud or identity theft) to be here illegally the citizens could be convicted of a felony and have many rights taken away such as the ability to vote and gun ownership. Citizens will also have a record, perhaps a job loss, jail time, and court/lawyer fees whereas illegals are just getting a free pass.

      Do you really believe something this stupid?  When people commit crimes, their legal status is not a factor.  So an undocumented immigrant committing a crime goes to court and gets the same sentence, or a stronger sentence, than a white American citizen.  After that, they often get deported.  Additionally, it's hard to take away the right to vote or bear arms from people that didn't have that in the first place.  What do you propose, giving the undocumented immigrants citizenship so we can punish them as much as we can citizens?

      There also deep resentment with legal immigrants that waited months or years for the paperwork to come through to get here.

      This is also generally untrue.  Anyone who knows anything about immigration knows that most of the undocumented have no legal way to enter the country, ever.  You have to be related to a permanent resident or going for a highly skilled job to enter the country from Mexico, with very few exceptions.  Your average construction worker or farmhand can not enter the U.S. legally, even if he can spend thousands and wait 20 years.  There is no visa for someone like that.


      Additionally, the "amnesty" you right-wingers like to complain about is really just an opportunity for undocumented people to be able to get at the back of the "line" (there really is no line, but I doubt you would comprehend that) behind the people that have already applied.  The "amnesty" would not reward the undocumented.

      While the republicans are tripping over themselves to see who can deport the most illegals, dems are still yammering about amnesty.

      You are obviously upset.  You might be better served going to RedState or LGF to find people sympathetic to your views.

    •  Thank you for proving my point (3+ / 0-)

      Anyone who has followed this issue over time knows that during the past two years the polling has been consistently shifting towards the right. And no wonder. Between Republican politicians beating the issue to death for a lack of anything else on the agenda, and the right-wing noise machine hammering away on it, the public increasingly moves further and further from the center. The MSM has only added to this shift by allowing Republicans a pass on important issues of the day, by letting them focus the debate on immigration.

      because every statement you make here:

      The failure of the dems to see this as an American revolt against illegals is astounding. High taxes, healthcare, education, and a tight labor market makes people mad as hell that illegals get those benefits without paying for them. When people find out their property taxes had to raised because the school population has 15-30% illegal children attending and had to hire special Spanish teachers for them because they don’t speak English, property owners get very angry.

      No one believes that illegals pay their fair share of taxes and everyone thinks illegals get special treatment from the government.

      ...There also deep resentment with legal immigrants that waited months or years for the paperwork to come through to get here

      Is in direct response to how the issue was framed over two years ago ...here:

      Having spent some time reviewing the leaked conservative talking points on immigration reform put forward by Republican spinmeister Frank Luntz, one can only be awestruck by the right-wings’ ability to frame and manipulate an issue. "Respect for the Law & Economic Fairness: Illegal Immigration Prevention" is a brilliant piece of political propaganda. In twenty-five pages Luntz manages to hit upon a multitude of tried and true conservative frames. He starts with some classic "mom and apple pie" themes, such as Security, Law and Order, Personal Accountability and Respect for the Rule of Law. He then adds in some of the conservatives favorite "hidden" themes like racism, the economic victimization of average Americans by liberal policies, minority abuse of social services, minorities receiving "special privileges" or treatment, fear, and of course the new favorite; terrorism. In the end he manages to draw a clear line from Reagans "welfare queen", through George Sr.’s "Willie Horton" right to Tom Tancredo’s "invading hordes" all without once having to stoop to ever having to say the words, or true meanings behind the inferences.

      Contained in Luntz’s blueprint is a virtual laundry list of societal and economic woes he directs his conservative brethren to blame squarely on the influx of "illegal aliens" coming over border.

      link

      You are simply regurgitating the talking points Luntz laid out...almost word for word. ..If you don't believe me...go read his playbook...it's all there in black and white.

      All the studies and research prove that almost every  Republican claim from immigranst not paying taxes to costing more in government services than they contribute is false. ( and if you want, I can post an extensive list of studies on everything from crime to learning English if you don't believe me)...but it doesn't matter, beacuase as I said in the Diary, the average American is starting to willingly buy into the Republican framing...as you proved in your comment

    •  Stop the "will of the people" crap. (4+ / 0-)

      You don't speak for Americans.

      The fact is that 55%-65% of Americans support a path to citizenship consistently in every poll (that is those from reputable organization).

      The fact is that two compassionate immigration bills were supported by the majority in the Senate and had to be filibustered by the minority Republicans to stop it.

      This "will of the people" line is a bunch of right wing crap.

  •  What is so egregious to me is this (0+ / 0-)

    administration wants to spread democracy around the world and pays absolutely no attention to the struggling democracy on our southern border.

    I don't think anyone would argue the undocumented workers we have here would be better served in their own country with their own families building their own economy. To do that Mexico needs to create at least 20 million jobs, right now 19% of citizens will never have a job. Additionally Mexico feels pressure of undocumented workers from Central America crossing their borders. Nothing put forth by either party addresses that issue. Or the opportunity a comprehensive plan including help to Mexico in building that middle class they need to have a sustainable economy provides. A plan that could over time in effect help boot strap the rest of Central America. Or how person freedom, sefl determination and democracy only becomes part of the national consciousness when people are out of survival mode.

    There are things we can do to help. I have thought a type of Marshall Plan for Mexico might work. I realize too there are big problems to achieving that goal, not the least of which is breaking up the oligarchy. The oligarchy  in part enabled by our greedy corporations wanting virtual slave labor from Mexico. As long as we provide willingly or unwillingly the safety valve for Mexico's poor there is no need for change and the destructive symbiotic relationship continues. The 18 or 19 richest families Mexico have nothing to gain by building an economy beyond what it is or investing in Mexico's future. They short circuit the democratic process and make it an economic dictatorship. When I think of the money spent in Iraq, we could have bought Mexico. Sent the oligarchy off into the sunset with a couple of trillion American dollars and got on with the business of supporting a democracy that is already in place rather than trying to reinvent the wheel in a country that has no concept of what democracy means.

    But it is going to take imagination and bold ideas to solve the problem. In the mean time we have 10-12 million undocumented workers. It is one thing to make sure any trade agreements with Mexico include worker's right but in fact we don't even do that for Mexican workers in this country. They often work for substandard wages and conditions, with no power to change their situation. We have given business in this country a virtual endless supply of slave labor.

    Do I think we need to enforce the laws we have? Absolutely, the businesses hiring undocumented workers need to be fined until they bleed and owners and CEO's need to be jailed if they don't comply. But what about the workers? I have seen INS raids up  close and we shouldn't wish them on human beings regardless of how they got here. Busting employers gives us an opportunity to actually document the workers we find. Provide them with papers necessary to stay legally and a road to citizenship if they choose. If they are legally here then it is not quite so easy to take advantage of them, they have acquired some minimal rights that will help protect them. It will also protect us because they can now get a driver's license, they will pay taxes and contribute to Social Security etc. It will also help stop the pressure to lower wages.

    I know people like to say undocumented workers dont' drive wages down or take jobs away from American workers. A couple of things about that. Common sense alone tells us that if you  have 40 million poor mostly unskilled in a country and bring in 12 million more just like them, they will be competing for the same jobs in many cases. Which brings us to lower wages. A again if there was no advantage to hiring undocumented workers they wouldn't be here. Why would a business hire a native when they know they MUST pay minimum wage, when they can hire an undocumented worker and pay what they want with no consequences? So yes, I do believe they compete and do help drive wages down. Is this their fault? No, it is what happens  when we allow a slave labor pool to exist unchallenged.  

    Clearly we can't deport 10-12 million people and I am not even sure we would want to. By the same token it really isn't fair to the immigrants who are waiting in line. Fines and waiting seems to be the answer floated. I don't have a problem with fines, but they need to be realistic, we are dealing with people who are poor and in many cases not able to pay the size of fines proposed. They should also have to pass a background check, criminals are deported. People who choose to serve in the military or 2 years of community service should be citizens at the end along with their families who are here. But this should also be offered to those who are here legally to be fair.

    Our immigration quotas probably need to be adjusted. I see no advantage to increasing the guest worker program unless those workers are in fields where there really IS a shortage of American workers, not just a matter of guest workers being cheaper labor. We can't help Mexico at all if we kill our own economy in the process.

    Securing our borders. That only makes sense these days, but a wall isn't it. Not sure exactly what is, certainly an increase in border patrol would help. And it doesn't matter if Mexicans aren't terrorists, or that Mexicans don't look like the ethnic groups most commonly associated with terrorism. If you are expecting to see Mexicans, that is all you will see regardless of who is actually there. In addition to securing our borders we need to secure our ports.

    Learning english should be a requirement. This is not to say they can't continue to speak Spanish or have to give up their culture but they really DO need to be able to speak english well enough to participate and again not be taken advantage of because of the language barrier.

    I have come to the conclusion neither party is interested in solving the immigration issue because it is to the advantage of business they do nothing. In the meantime public opinion gets poisoned against immigrants. Immigrants are wrongfully demonized as the cause of all our problems when they are as much victims as the rest of us and in some cases given their lack of rights victimized even further.

    I know you didn't ask, but this is my take on part of what should be done. BTW, I am fine with them being here, just want immigrants to have a better life, not just a different life.

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